Kill_Yr_Idol83
Kill_Yr_Idol83
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@radiantHero23 said:
While I agree, that Gen perks are generally a bit weaker now, everything else on killer got stronger over the years.
- Multiple buffs to specific killers
- Multiple buffs to killer in general
- Maps got smaller / weaker pallets
- Haddonfield is now killer sided
- Multiple nerfs to very strong survivor perks.
Playing killer is a lot easier now than it has been in the past. I don't know what else to say. The changes speak for themselves.
The nerfs to gen slowdown perks has forced killers to equip 2 or more in their builds to get the same effect that only one used to have. Without that gen defense, the match is already lost from the beginning. So really, it did the opposite effect BHVR wanted. Instead of moving killers away from gen perks, it's forced us to double down on them making certain situations OP especially when they nerfed the gen kicking meta with only being able to kick a gen 9 times. It also sucked the fun out of playing a wide variety of builds unless you really just want to lose every match. Instead of nerfing so many of them, they should've just made it so the stronger ones (say Pop and Pain Resonance) can't be used together. They've also nerfed the hell outnof tunneling and camping. Yes it's not a fun playstyle but in certain situations, it's necessary. Like when you're not doing so hot and you're down to two gens, tunneling someone out, tilts the game back in one's favour but with all the new second chance perks and antitunneling/anti-aging perks, it's impossible. Also, things like kicking gens faster and breaking pallets was a necessary change given again, all the new survivor perks that far outweigh anything killers have. And nerfs to things like DS and DH were just as necessary as they were incredibly abused.
So yeah, killers are stronger now than they were back in the day BUT we also weren't facing the amount of survivor perks and SWFs that we are currently.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901275#Comment_3901275
Yeah, a really strong, coordinated SWF is playing as a massive competitive advantage. That much is beyond rational dispute, and it feels bad to be on the wrong end of one of those matches.
But I don't think they're common enough to ruin the killer experience overall. Now SWFs in general are common, but there a lot of 2 and 3 man SWFs, and even your average 4 man is just kinda mid. "SWF" isn't this monolithic thing, there are tons of SWF permutations, and that makes it hard to meaningfully and fairly address.
The majority of matches, even at "top mmr" are mixed bags. There might be days when you are unfortunate enough to run into a few of them, that's not the rule for anyone, even if it feels like it.
And the reality here, right or wrong, is that BHVR isn't going to nerf SWF regardless. It has been, as you point out, eight years. If they had any inclination to do so, it would have been done by now. They will continue to buff solo, but I'd be gobsmacked if they ever address SWF with with targeted nerfs. Especially since the single greatest advantage a good-great SWF has, voice comms, is completely beyond BHVR's ability to regulate.
We just have to accept it for what it is. Or move on.
And while I will maintain that it's beyond reasonable debate that current killer is in it's strongest state ever generally, and the heyday of truly OP survs ended with 6.1.0, many killers aren't viable even outside of SWF matches. And that's a bigger issue.
Now that I agree with you on. There are too many killers that are simply not viable enough to keep up with the state the game currently is in which is quite unfortunate cause who wants to just play the same S tier killers over and over again?!
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Kindred
Pain Resonance
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@thefallenloser said:
bro killer is the easiest it's ever been. i know you may have gotten destroyed by a four stack before you posted this— i get it, but killers are objectively the strongest they've ever been and i am winning the great majority of my killer games
Good for you. Are you stuck in a high MMR bracket that just gets SWFs all the damn time? Do you play fair or are you tunneling/camping hooks? Do you only play newer viable killers wherein the older ones can barely keep up in chase or today's meta? It's all subjective. Fact is, SWF and MMR has been the bane of this games existence at Behaviour has done nothing to address it.
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@SmugwibYTLIve said:
My highest ever solo queue escape streak is 71.
My current blight and nurse 4k streaks are in the 4 digits.
Not feeling miserable with either role.
Bravo. Was your comment left so we all can clap and hand you an award?! 🙄
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@Thusly_Boned said:
This forum never ceases to amaze me
Somehow survivor is unplayable and simultaneously killer is a miserable.
Might as well just shut the whole thing down, lol
But seriously, OP here says "things never change" but also the game has "become" miserable for killers. That doesn't compute.
And contrary to the topic here, killer is as easy as it has ever been (I am not saying it's "EZ MODE" or anything stupid, but it has never been easier). I cut my teeth as a killer main back in the OG DH/DS/UB/IW/BT meta, and killer now is a day at the freaking beach compared to that nonsense.
I think the real issue here might be that after eight years your patience has waned and you're just burned out. Not to be a downer, but at a certain point the fun can't be brought back for us, because we're just cooked. All of us will get there at some point.
Maybe. But maybe SWF just seriously is the issue that's been ignored for over 8 years. Killer is easier in comparison to that meta you used as an example but those days also didn't have 40+ more survivor perks, including more 2nd chances and more gen speed, giving them insane advantages especially for SWF. Too many killers aren't viable with this current interation of the game which has does play into your point that the fun has been sucked out of it.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Can we please stop with the SWF hate already. We get it. SWF is the killer end game, so if you're getting them, gratz! You're in a high MMR bracket, just like you wanted. Its not going to get easier because you feel the need to incessantly toss up a repeat forum post.
This is a genuine ask.
Dude, I haven't posted in this forum for like 4 years. ######### chill.
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That's subjective. Are you stuck in high MMR?
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@vBlossom_ said:
Bestie,
- Dead Hard got nerfed to the ground, you have guarantee that first chase would be without DH.
- They added Conspicuous Action so DS can't be weaponized.
- Healing got nerfed hard, one self-heal per medkit, addon that allows 2 heals is now red rarity.
- All gens have + 10 seconds since 6.1.0.
- Gen tapping is no more, all gen kicks inflicts insta-damage to gen now.
- Keys & Hatch is literally gone.
And yet you still complain about SWF and need 3-4 gen perks?
I'm sorry but it shows that these perks are carrying you and your MMR is way above your skill. You need to have some chill matches, not focus on constant win and you'll receive weaker survivors.Also how do you imagine me encouraging my friends to buy DBD to play with me if there is sth like that?
Like for every number of SWF playing together, a handicap to gen speeds should be implemented. Like Thana that gains a percentage of slow down for each player playing together and/or some sort of blindness handicap or healing penalty.
None of those survivor nerfs affected gameplay whatsoever. DS was OP and is in a good spot now and gentapping should've never been in the game in the first place. The additional 10+ seconds to gens didn't do a damn thing either. Not with Hyperfocus and every other gen speed perk that's been handed to survivors. Most older killers aren't viable anymore in chase either so there's no danger for survivors to just sit on a gen when a survivors is being chased within the area.
So no, those perks aren't carrying me whatsoever. There is no "winning" a match without 2-3 gen slow down perks. Ask any vet. You just sound like a survivor main chiming in on a post that doesn't affect you.
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I don't find Huntress at all difficult on console. It's all about pratice with her and learning where her hatchets will land depending on how high or low you aim and knowing her hit box. She's also very perk reliant because of her lack of speed so her build can make or break a match if you're new with her. Blight and Nurse are a little bit more tricky as they definitely have a learning curve but once you form a muscle memory of their power, they're completely fine to play on console. I'm sure they're better on PC but they're not terrible on console. At least with The Blight because he doesn't suffer from slower movement speed, you don't really have to use his power besides traversing the map quicker if you don't want to. The only killer that's really a pain on console imo is The Trickster. To properly center is flailing blades at a survivor's back is rather frustrating. He's so hit and miss on console that he's legit the only killer I don't play in the game because of that reason. He's just way too wonky for console and his addons don't help him counter the way you have to play him with a controller.
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With Kindred being bugged and killers Undetectable being wall hacked by aura revealing perks, I should certainly hope no one is planning on taking a Xmas vacation just yet. There is some game breaking BS in the game right now not fit for any Xmas Event.
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I think you meant to say Huntress.
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@MisterMister said:
Every match you play you aren’t playing a SWF. I’d bet that you don’t face a SWF but every 1-10 matches if not 1-20.
You're forgetting an important variable. SWFs of any kind are a stronger role than SoloQ, a 4man is stronger than a 3man, a 3man is stronger than a 2man etc etc. which all plays into MMR. In mid to lower MMR games your statics may hold some truth (however you clarified your stats are based on a 4man) but in higher MMR games, killers face the majority of all types of SWFs rendering your statics completley false. The higher your MMR as killer is, the MORE SWFs you face.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289734#Comment_3289734
That's how i found this out
I was using Fogwise and I was seeing a cloaked wraith run around the map
Jfc. That's so inexcusable on the Devs part. Like worse than the killer hook bug from 3 or 4 years ago.
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@Tsukah said:
They should fix the Kindred bug tomorrow or on the 8th when the event starts. Why does it take weeks or months to fix such simple issues...?
I can't remember the logistics as to why they can't just rush fixes out. It has something to do with having to give a week's notice before being allowed to when it comes to consoles I believe. Don't quote me on that though. I'm sure someone here knows the exact reason. The Devs have explained it before. It's annoying to say the least. However, you'd think because these new bugs are literally game breaking, that they'd be able to rush a fix out with the Xmas Event release.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289701#Comment_3289701
As a Ghostface main who moonlights as Mirror Myers, sadge.
Guess It's back to Dredge and Demogorgon.
Yeah but forget using Demo's extended Undetectable addon when coming out of portals. Now Wiretrap is going to be stronger than ever for survivors or that new killer aura perk with Vittorio.
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@Seraphor said:
How does this even happen?
How is an on/off switch for killer auras somehow tied to map spawn conditions? Who writes code like this?
I've been wondering this for the 5+ years I've been playing this game. It seemed like BHVR was finally on an upswing this year and then Forged In The Fog releases and we're reminded once again that this game was constructed with spaghetti coding!!
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289699#Comment_3289699
This winter event is going to be an actual disaster
All of the game's stealth killers have been neutered due to a bug
Solo Q is gonna be even more painful since Kindred is bugged
It's unacceptable, tbh. Forged in Fog is Binding of Kin 2.0 with how broken it's made the game.
The Binding Of Kin chapter is exactly what came to mind with all the frustration Forged in the Fog has caused. Like I get some bugs and tweaks happen with chapter releases but the level of game breaking bugs this time around is beyond ridiculous to the point of not being able to actually play the game at all. Like what in the actual f--k?!
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@Brokenbones said:
Okay so basically
If I have Kindred equipped, before the hotfix I could see the Killer's aura if anyone was hooked.
Now, you only see the aura if the person on hook has Kindred.
It's also worth noting that this hotfix broke every single undetectable killer's power and they are revealed by aura perks. I made a bug report about it just now
Ffs. Wow. That is so beyond maddening. And just days before the Xmas Event at that and after spending money on winter cosmetics to celebrate. SMH. Between the DLC and cosmetics, I've dropped like $50 dollars over the last couple weeks to not even be able to play the game properly and I for one am NOT made out of money. JFC. Kindred is like a must for SoloQ and so much for playing a good majority of killers with Undetectable being, in so many words, wall hacked. I get DLCs come with their share of bugs but game breaking bugs 3 weeks after a chapter release is absolutely ridiculous.
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@puppersghost said:
It’s happened like 6-7 times this week and happened 3 times in a row just today
I just started getting it today and nothing I've tried, not even the devs "work around" has worked. It's so dumb.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276385#Comment_3276385
Thanks for your feedback, but I posted it again in General and got a response from Peanits with a possible workaround, which is what I was asking for in this post that was moved.
Unfortunately the work around only works for some people as it clearly is not working on my end. It's truly unfortunate and frustrating to say the least.
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I'm on PS5 and this is now happening every single match no matter what I do. I didnt get this until 3 days after the new chapter and now there's no work around. Restaring the game or my console doesn't fix it so whatever work around that was possibly discovered, is not a work around at all anymore. The game is literally unplayable and now we're being told we have to wait 11 days for it to be fixed. Ffs.
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It's happening to me now every single match no matter what I do. Restarting the game or my PS5 doesn't fix it. So all my money spent on the new DLC and Black Friday sales on cosmetics and I can't even play the game with my friends during the Thanksgiving weekend or partake in the Bloodhunt.
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...smh
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This is beyond ridiculous. It's happening on my PS5 now every single match. Just dropped a ton on the new DLC and cosmetics and now I can't even play the game for 11 days until they fix it. There goes any plans of enjoying the bloodhunt and playing with friends over the holiday weekend.
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Yes. Will buy entire DLC. What RE fan wouldn't want the opportunity to play Wesker?! Also Ada and Rebecca ❤
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Discordance, Nurse's Calling, Dark Devotion and Jolt.
Alt: Lethal Persurer, I'm All Ears, Monitor&Abuse, Call Of Brine.
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Currently I like running Discordance, Nurse's Calling, Dark Devotion and Jolt.
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I'm not sure if anyone's said this but another great thing about Oni is his power grants free tracking without having to use an addon or perk. It also counters the newly buffed Lucky Break, Lightweight and Distortion when the survivor is injured cause guess what? I see your blood orbs!!
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A survivor urban evasioning through the outskirts of the map, scared of the slightest hint of a terror radius.
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Trickster is absolute garbage on console which leads to me hardly ever playing him so he'd be my pick for a refund but I like Yun-Jin's overall look and cosmetics so I wouldn't. Still disappointed though that they never did a neon streets of Korea map. One of the biggest missed opportunities for a released chapter to date.
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It's on all platforms and has been around for the last few months. It sucks.
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I love RE and I love the idea of having RPD as a map in the game but as a killer main, it's atrocious. If you're not lucky enough to have a teleporting or high mobile killer when sent there, you already have the chips stacked against you. Like have you ever tried navigating Billy or Blight through those doorways?! Try setting things up as Trapper? Be Ina chase as Hag?! And that backhalf of the map (bottom floor, behind the main stairs) is an absolute nightmare!! One wrong turn and you're back in a circle again, trying to remember the hallway that let's you back out of that area no matter how many times you've found yourself in that predicament. Halve that #########!!
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There was already an issue with Solo Q and I think the update just made it more obvious. I think people relied way too much on DH and DS as well and they haven't figured out a build that works for them yet moving forward (that or a lot of people are realizing that they weren't as good at looping than they thought). I also think that killers haven't had a buff like this in like 3 years so it's discouraging survivors who were used to bullying them with their multiple second chance perks so everything just "feels bad". My vote is we'll have to wait and see but BHVR should've buffed Solo Q with this update to have made it "feel" more balanced.
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Hex Pentimento pairs way better with Hex Plaything especially on Plague. It's basically her current meta right now. I'd also stay away from pairing Thana and Dying Light together. It's unnecessary overkill especially since Dying Light only gives you a slight buff to Thana and it's incredibly boring both playing against and with since your matches will feel 10x longer. I'd choose something like Discordance over Dying Light to get a better jump on survivors and quicken the pace of your match. Hell, throw on her Black Incense addon and it's GG EZ.
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@Mandy said:
https://status.playstation.com this could very well be connected to the current PSN issues that are happening right now.
That's a bummer. I was looking forward to the Attack On Titan cosmetics 😭
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Plague- Hex: Plaything + Hex: Pentimento
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I'm constantly trying to figure this out. Some of my killers are at an incredibly high MMR where games are nothing but sweatfests or a toxic dumping ground from survivors and then recently played a match as the Hillbilly, who I hadn't played in 2 years and the outcome was the same. Like I thought there was a decay system put in place. I've played the Hillbilly like maybe 4 or 5 times in the 5+ years I've been playing DbD so it all just doesn't make any sense why choosing him puts me in this higher MMR bracket regardless. It's truly quite frustrating.
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@hermesHerald said:
i also get this bug on ps4. no fix or acknowledgement yet.
It doesn't seem to affect Pinhead. Just the Chatterer. Can't tell if it's the character or a certain addon or what. It's so weird.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2936488#Comment_2936488
I completely get how you feel, as I mostly went through this same journey myself (minus the reinstalling bit in the end).
The whole reason why I stuck around on this Forum and ultimately wrote this post is because I still love this game, but I am disappointed in its current state.
It is this love (and disappointment) for the game that motivated me to think about it in detail, even though I had already left at that point.
I genuinely want this game to better. I want it to go in a direction that makes it more enjoyable for me, as a Killermain, again, I want to return to it - and I genuinely hope the Devs are going to do something to improve this.
I 100% agree with your sentiments. I love DbD and I genuienly want it to succeed and do better but I can no longer put myself through how absolutely miserable it is to play killer and I can't help but feel let down by BHVR over the last two years for continuously adding content that does nothing to address the glaring issues. It's incredibly disappointing especially given how fun the game used to be before the imbalances really started to get out of control and the SBMM put what feels like a nail in the coffin.
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@Mister_xD said:
Prologue
Hello everyone,
First of all, this is not actually a post that I really wanted to make. As some of you will probaply know, I no longer play this game, so my enthusiasm for it has dwindled too. I have just not been having the motivation to make a long post like this one for a long while now, though I did write down the thoughts from this post in earlier comments already, just in a less detailed form.
Ever since i quit DbD in August 2021, I have been reflecting on why I quit and after discovering the reasons, decided to dig a bit deeper and find the reasons for those reasons. And I do think that I managed to figure out an issue this game has that I barely see anyone talk about, yet sooo many things people do talk about and discuss end up being direct consequences of this one, bigger thing.
So I did decide to make this post eventually, simply to shed some light onto what I believe to be, by far, Dead by Daylights biggest problem right now. The "root of all evil", if you will.
Also I am not saying this was DbD's only issue, there are some others that are very much seperated from this one that are important too (e.g. the discrepancy in strength between solo Survivors and SWF groups), but I believe this one to have the biggest impact on the game as of right now. And do keep in mind that this is my opinion, it is very possible that some of you might view other things as more important issues than this one.
The Issue
I'll be straight forward and tell you the problem right away:
The Survivors objective is unfun and boring.
Now before you go in the comments and start calling me crazy, please read my reasoning for this being DbDs biggest issue first. It is a lot more complicated than this one sentence might make it look like.
How to balance an asymmetrical game
I know this might seem off topic, but trust me, this is very important for later.
Dead by Daylight can be split into two seperate "games":
- The "Macrogame" (referring to the overall trial and its progression)
- The "Microgame" (referring to interactions between both sides)
The way we can create a balanced experience for both sides is, by making each side dominate on of those two cathegories, but as a result of that be weak in the other.
Essentially, this game boils down to both sides racing each other by pushing their strong suit and hoping that they can finish their objective before the other side has been able to finish theirs.
Due to this being an asymmetrical game, the side that has less players in one round (Killers) needs to be the dominant side in the Microgame, while the opposing side (Survivors) gets to dominate the Macrogame.
This makes sense, given the Survivors superior numbers that allow them to apply pressure on the Killer in multiple different locations, which the Killer can not contest due to them only being able to be in one place at a time.
To make this fair for the Killer, they need to have the upper hand in this 1v1 interaction, so that they don't waste much time on this one Survivor and can instead go and pressure the team after dealing with them quickly. This is also why they are referred to as "the powerrole", even though they themselves arent any more powerful than the Survivor side is, but they feel very powerful due to the fact that they heavily outclass an individual Survivor.
In other words, a balanced Dead by Daylight would be a game where Killers dominate in chases, whereas Survivors dominate in generator progression, with the deciding factor being who can be more efficient in "their game" of DbD and outperform the other side.
How the Issue affects DbD's balance
In a balanced Dead by Daylight, as discussed above, long chases do not exist. Killers dominate in this aspect, so Survivors will want to avoid chases altogether, focussing their gameplay on generators.
But generators are no fun. No one wants to focus their entire gameplay on holding M1 and occasionally hitting space bar - understandably so.
If this game were to ever be in a balanced state, Survivors would be the ones quitting out of boredom. And since Survivors are just as essential to this game as Killers are, while also making a majority of its playerbase simply because of the 4v1 nature of this game, this would be very bad news.
This is also something that I believe the Devs are very aware of. They have stated multiple times in the past now that they have no intention of balancing Dead by Daylight to make it fair, but to make it "fun".
But what does that mean exactly?
What is the one thing you think of when you talk about "fun" in Dead by Daylight? - It's chases.
Chases are a fast and easy way of bringing action into this, otherwise very boring, game. They are full of fast paced interactions between both sides and you need to think on the run to make the right call in order to avoid certain death at the Killers hands.
As a result the Devs have started balancing DbD around chases - some people might even refer to chases as Dead by Daylight in its entirety, completely forgetting that there is more to it outside of them.
While this is a very understandable decision made by the Devs, it is also one that brings major imbalances with it.
The result(s)
Due to the Devs focussing their resources on making chases a fair, interactive and balanced encounter for both sides, Killers feel very weak to play.
Remember what I said earlier about how to balance an asymmetrical game - Survivors need to dominate in the Macrogame, while Killers need to dominate in the Microgame.
But this is no longer the case. The reality of DbD is, that Survivors dominate the Killer in the Macrogame, as they were designed to, and are equal to them in the Microgame, while on the flip side Killers get dominated in the Macrogame, as they should, but are only equal to Survivors in the Microgame.
By balancing this game around the 1v1 aspect of it, the Devs took away the Killers strongsuit. Killers now struggle immensly to compete with Survivors, especially since those Survivors can hardly be nerfed in their strongsuit, due to that being a direct result of their superior numbers. Simply put Killers can not end their chases quick enough to properly race Survivors who focus on generatos, meaning any time the Survivor team is working on generators efficiently the Killer will most likely lose.
As a result the game becomes frustrating to its Killer playerbase, because any time they go up against a team of Survivors with an equal skilllevel to theirs, they are heavily outclassed simply due to this game being tilted in the Survivors favor as much as it is.
For Killers to be able to win, they need to be on a higher skilllevel than the Survivors are, so that the Killer makes less mistakes than the Survivors and can punish their mistakes more efficiently.
And this leads us to a very modern problem, namely that this essentially rules out the existance of MMR systems in a game like this - at least functional ones.
There are two possible outcomes with an MMR system in DbD right now:
- The system works and puts players of equal skill against each other. In this case Killers are heavily outmatched and will lose a majority of their games (unless Survivors make a huge, game losing, mistake, but for the sake of the argument we have to assume both sides play equally well), which feels unfair and bad for the Killers. Additionally, the high end Survivors would have no opponents, because Killers can not compete at this stage, which results in very long lobby queue times for them.
- The system doesnt work and puts players of varying skill against one another. In this case Killers would get to fight lesser experienced players as well, which allows them to win those games, which feels unfair and bad for those Survivors, as they feel outmatched.
This means no matter what happens, this is a lose-lose scenario. This is also why I keep saying that the most basic requirement for a functional MMR system is a balanced game, which DbD can not (and will probaply never) offer.
Another very common complaint by the Killerplayerbase today is, that gens are completed too fast. That however is not actually the case, it's that they are too slow at killing the Survivors.
And as I explained above, this is essentially an unfixable problem. There are two possible solutions to it, which equally don't work:
- Make Killers the strong chasers they are supposed to be to be able to rival the gen speeds - this one turns Survivor gameplay into a hold M1 simulator, making it extremely unfun for them to play.
- Make gens take longer to complete - this one makes Survivors sit on gens, holding down M1, even longer than they already have to, at which point no one is having fun anymore because of how sluggish the game has become.
Both of these fail entirely at the non interactive nature of generators.
And there are more, but we would still be here tomorrow if I went into detail on all of them, so I'll make it short. Here is a list of other issues that are directly linked to this one with a brief explanation:
- Maps having too many timewasters for Killers on them or generally not allowing for much map pressure (Pallets and Windows are what Survivors have to have fun in chases, to maximise fun and fairness in chases we need a bunch of them and make it so whoever mindgames who wins)
- A vast majority of the Killer roster being unviable in high level play (only viable options are Killers with strong chase related abilities to at least sometimes put Survivors in a lose-lose situation they can profit from, who also have good map pressure to fight generator speeds - e.g. Nurse and Blight)
- Killers getting nerfed who did not need a nerf (strong chase ability = unfun match for Survivors, therefore they get nerfed. This is what happened to Deathslinger or the Twins Toy Sword Add On)
- Killers being forced to run a bunch of slowdown Perks (essentially a futile attempt to force solution 2. from gens being done too fast. As explained above it makes the game miserably boring for Survivors, but is a necessary evil currently)
- Camping & Tunneling being such popular strategies (eliminating one player early on makes the Survivor teams overall map pressure take a huge hit, which can allow the Killer to relax a bit more. Not doing this is pretty much a lost trial. This is a result of gen speeds, which are a result of their unfun nature)
- Playing Killer being significantly more stressful than playing Survivor (you essentially have to play perfect to beat even just a mediocre team. The smallest mistake can cost you the entire game, due to a chase being extended too long and you therefore getting crushed in the Macrogame)
While not all of those might be a direct result of generators being boring, they are all linked to it in some way. Basically, the boring nature of gens caused the Devs flawed balance philosophy, which is what stops us from properly addressing those issues.
If we ever want to properly fix those problems, we need to address generators first. If we don't, all we achieve is trading one problematic thing for another.
What is the Solution?
A complete rework of the Survivors main objective.
We need to get rid of the excruciatingly boring gameplay that is holding down M1 while waiting for a progress bar to fill up - and this is not exclusive to generators by the way, all of the Survivors objectives are this boring, whether that be exit gate switches, totems (cleansing and blessing), healing, chest searching - they are all the same.
Of course these progress bars serve a purpose. These objectives are meant to be timewasters first and foremost, it is necessary that the Survivors spend a good amount of their time on doing them to allow the Killer to find and hunt them down.
So a reworked Survivor objective would need to be both time consuming and interactive for them at the same time.
It is not until this is achieved that we can properly address so many of the other, much more noticeable, issues that plague this game today.
This being said, personally I don't think this is a realistic demand to make.
Generators are one of the most fundamental mechanics in this game and they have existed for almost 6 years at this point without any major changes to them and with a total of 27 DLCs (some bigger than others ofc) that further change the game and, in many cases, directly rely on this mechanic or further add to it.
There are Perks on both sides directly tied to generator progress bars and there are some Killer powers that also rely on Survivors being on gens (such as Freddies teleport or the Doctors Madness Skill Checks) that would need to be addressed if gens were to be fundamentally reworked.
This absolutely does not mean it was impossible to address, however it would require a huge amount of time, ressources and effort from BHVRs side.
And I mean this when I say it, but I definitely think that at this point it would be easier for them to just work on a Dead by Daylight 2 and redesign it from the ground up with this in mind, rather than to try and somehow fix the current game (also due to spaghetti code that further hinders this).
However, I would definitely not mind being proven wrong on this. Though it would be a long and tedious process, I believe the game would greatly benefit from it in the long run.
And they can start small, not tackle the whole thing at once, but maybe start by doing one thing and see how it plays out. For example, rework the Exit Gates to no longer require you to hold M1 next to the switch until a progress bar is filled, but make it require fuses that the Survivors need to collect and insert - each fuse lights up one bulb and 3 fuses open the gate up. It would be significantly more interactive for both sides and it would get rid of people 99%ing the gates (another common complaint you hear a lot). You can also do something entirely different, the most important thing is that something is done.
Afterword
Thanks for reading this, admittedly very long, post. Might be my longest one yet, its definitely the one I put the most work into.
What do you think of this? Do you think I'm right? Or do you think I'm entirely wrong? Did i miss anything crucial? Please tell me down below!
Also please keep in mind this post is not meant to give solutions to this issue, but soley to highlight it - though if you think you got a good sulution to it you can share it down below too / make your own post about it! The more ideas we can give the Devs on this the better. I also deliberately did not post it in the Feedback subforum, as it is not meant to be feedback to the Devs, but as a bit of an explanation to where I believe the game stands right now and why certain things are happening to it for the community - as stated above, I do believe the Devs are very keenly aware of this issue already (and have been for a long time now).
Have a nice day / night and I'll see you next time!
also revert the Slinger nerfs, k thx bye.
Thank you for this post. It sums up so very well my frustrations with this game. I've been playing for just about 5 years and recently thrown in the towel when SBMM was introduced, as much as it pained me to do. As a killer main, it was just becoming a maddening, frustrating experience and was anything but fun. I reinstalled the game during the MMR tests and recent tweaks but it's proven to be just as worse for the killer experience. It's as sweaty as ever and the early game is absolutely dreadful. A gen can be done by the time a killer who can only walk, goes from one side of the map to the other. Then two more gens fly once you find yourself in ONE chase and that's with a build that's entirely gen regression perks cause gen tapping is still a thing. I could go on but you've nailed it on the head. Killers just simply aren't viable and the core mechanics has forced a style of gameplay that is simply not fun. Survivors are so unbelievably cocky these days because they know if you're not playing any of the top tier Killers, they've already won. Its made a sweaty, toxic, frustrating and soul sucking experience and is why once again, I've quit the role of Killer and the game altogether until BHVR offer up change. It feels so bad that a game I love and have put so much time and money into, has come to this.
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It's insanely dark. I have to change my TV setting and even then it barely brightness the maps. I often get stuck on the new Haddonfield map because I can't even register that there's a fence or bush in front of me. And Springwood? Forget it. I just afk until the match is over.
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It's awful. I took a long break from DbD and recently returned and as a killer main, I just can't play the game. It's absolutely miserable. Just nothing but sweaty, toxic survivors, clicking flashlights, infinitely healing (thanks to CoH) and DHing, teabagging and gen tapping so ######### all my regression perks. It 100% sucks. BHVR has killed the killer experience.
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@mileto_br said:
I feel like they could work some sort of corruption intervention base kit for when SWF (duos, trios or squads) are part of the trial. For example, no blocked gens if all survivors are SoloQ, 1 gen blocked if there's a duo, 2 gen blocked with a trio or two duos, and 3 gens blocked with a squad. Maybe for 30s?
The perk itself would have to change to add extra gens or time depending on each case.
I like that idea quite a bit.
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@CashelP14 said:
I always feel like I need Corrupt Intervention as killer. I'd really support a mini Corrupt that lasted 30 or 45 seconds.
Right?! I feel ya. I use Corrupt for every killer, every match cause the early game is just so survivor tilted that you can lose a gen for simply walking from one side of the map to the next at the very beginning of a match and then lose another gen or two from getting in your first chase. It feels bad and is tiresome to have to waste a perk slot on something that should be worked into the core mechanics at this point, in some form or another.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I thought that too until ten million slowdown perks that all stack were introduced.
You could go into a match with a full gen slowdown build and still get stomped easily in high mmr matches. You can also lose a gen for simply walking from one side of the map to the other at the beginning of a match, then lose two more gens during your first chase before any of your stacked gen regression perks ever activate.
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@Icaurs said:
Sure, and you like survivors to move at 10% movement speed and start the match of in the dying state? Great meme. Basekit Corupt, XD.
Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation other than to troll. There were good points made in this discussion, yours not being one of them ✌
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I can't agree when there's an insane godloop at the Myers house. The vault in the front window, straight to the vault on the backporch, circling back to the front of the house....it's rough. There's no countering it unless you have a brain dead survivor you can mindgame (highly unlikely) or are Undetectable. It's just way too strong of a loop to call the map killer sided. Feels like the old Coldwind godloop.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2922185#Comment_2922185
You're doing the same thing BHVR does; band-aid fixing core mechanics.
If you read through the discussion, some of us talked about how it could be a good thing vs how it could potentially create problems and how to work around it. We also discussed issues with gen speeds in general and how survivors being able to simply gen tap to stop regression should be removed and how killers simply kicking a gen should create more damage as well as a few other ideas. None of this would be a bandaid fix as all of it generally help the health of the killer side and further break up the meta considering BHVR has no plans in creating new objectives nor changing the early game. Creating a new perk like BHVR has been doing to address players issues, are the real bandaid fixes.