Gwinty
Gwinty
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Uff, this will be some work. First of all: "toxic gameplay". You consider the Killer doing their objective toxic but when the survivor does they are just "good at the game". This is a huge leap and you also ignore tbaging, flashlight clicking (on macro!) or bodyblocking with Cycle of Healing in groups and many other things.
Thing is: You just labeled one type of gameplay as "toxic" on an arbitrary base.
Some people consider Franklin's Demise or Hex: No one escapes Death as toxic perks. Are they?
Later on you even argue: "Even if the killer is losing and doesn’t have any kills because survivors are playing super well, they still get to chase ...". Well, if a Killer is tunneling you, you get to play the chase as well. If you are on the hook your team can still come and rescue you it is quit possible. Camping is a way of provoking the survivors to come to you, thus easing the risk of going for the wrong generator or getting stealthed by a survivor when you finally get there. Also a reason why BBQ is a good perk btw it allows Killer to find you.
Now you talk about somebody taking away someone else fun, let me give you an example: Imagine I am Ghostface and we are playing Haddonfield. I play against a 4 people SWF and one is constantly on the watch out, calling his teammate my position and revealing me, while using Balance landing. Where do I get to use my power? Right, I do not. I play M1 knife man the same way you play M1 generator man.
Now "fun" is subjective thus this is not an objective answere of course. This is my fun getting taken away.
Some Killers also have a very slug heavy gameplay: When you play Oni and you want to get hooks and kills, you have to snowball. Thus you slug people. Sometimes resulting in 4 slugs when survivors play poorly. Note also that mass slugging in this way is a misplay on the survivors side for the most part...do I take their fun away or do I just capitalize on their mistakes and follow my objective and playstyle as Oni?
Now, I do not understand Killers facecamping or hardcore tunneling a survivor just like that. For me this happens when people take the same character 4 times (I will not watch my way), when I have no information about survivors (I have to chase somebody to apply pressure) and I mostly only camp when the gates are powered and I have a person on the hook. Two gates far appart? How shall I defend that as Ghostface, better let them come for me.
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Dev logic is a bit different from ours and there are multiple things to take into consideration:
- Devs are not devs. The people working on balance may not be the same who work on new Killers, maps or reworks of killers. Look and animations are also done by "devs" but they do no coding. As such the term "the devs" is vague at best.
- Changes need time. Depending on how complex something is there can be multiple problems for the devs to fix. Take hit validation as an example: We now have a pallet and a Dead Hard hit validation system. However we have no window-hit validation. This could very much be because there are more interactions with windows (aka more code) that has to be considered.
- You may have to change more than you think. As an example: I demand that the different Exhaustion perks have different values to them. Now this would work if the values are stored in a seperate file and can be changed with just one input. However if maybe those values are glued to a different tag "Exhaustion" you would have to change this tag first and then every single perk with a new variable. This takes time, creates bugs and well...maybe you will not notice it as a player.
- Many things are done in the background. Bug fixes, performance issues and things like that are done in the background. We will not notice them.
- The game is on multiple platforms and crossplay. This is a hard one: You do not only have to develop for one platform but for multiple interacting platforms, leading to you writing the same thing 3 or more times for different systems and then watching those systems interact.
Sure, BHVR is big. But they are not only working on DbD, they have other projects too. How may people work on DbD? I have no idea. But these problems lead to a time delay with the devs work: We complain about something today and the solution may already be in development since 3 months.
To cut it short: There is a lot going on that we do not know about. There is no easy way to fix this and that is not our job. But overall please assume that those people have the best intentions for the game first. Maybe consider problems from a few months back when reading todays solutions.
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Honestly I now play more Spirit than before. Her add-ons feel interesting now when you recover your power after a stun, explode your husk or return to it. This gives her more of a fresh feeling than ever. The add-on pass was one of the best they made.
Also she can still work her magic in a chase especially on maps with grass. Sound becomes an issue very quickly with people running Iron Will every time but you can not fool the environment. That said this makes her very hard to play on maps without any grass, corn or other moving stuff.
I play her with Monitor and Abuse now as the shifting terror radius confuses the hell out of survivors and you can get your first hit more easy with it, saving your power for the second hit / Dead Hard. I still mostly use it in small bursts.
All that in consideration: Spirit is now more fun then ever for me. This is however highly subjective.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2736600#Comment_2736600
That would involve having killers keep their high skill ceiling. Or skill required for the amount of reward on return. IMO more killers need to be like nurse. Where it requires a high amount of skill to get the maximum potential and just shred the hell out of people. But they keep nerfing those aspects. Not only that, but for killers who actually require a decent amount of skill they find ways to nerf them so the time you spend learning the damn thing and fine tuning it doesn't pay off. If I spent 500 hours learning nurse. And then spent 500 hours learning Pinhead <---I've literally cut my life short for no reason spending all that time learning pinhead when his skill cap is high, but they keep nerfing his payout. And the guy just came out not too long ago..... same thing with blight, players learn a skill, spend 100s of hours to learn and perfect a killer then they go...."nah"...and then just drop their skill cap outta nowhere. They did it with Blight, They did it with Oni, they did it with Hillbilly, they did it with Pinhead, and did it with Slinger and spirit repeatedly. So they don't want you making precision turns with your mouse, they don't want you quick scoping, they don't want you mind gaming, it feels like they don't want killers to think. They just want us to walk around in this cage of limitations like robots waiting for cooldowns like we're playing some mmorpg with global cooldowns between casts. GCD when you miss, GCD when you hit, GCD to kick a gen, GCD when you hit someone but didn't actually hit someone cause hit validation says no and you get stunned anyway.
Wanna be stealthy and use your brain to come up with witty ways to capture survivors, NO. Survivors need to have all the information in the game. Devs apparently think, survivors need to know where you are, need to know if you're using your power even if you aren't anywhere near them, need to know that a hex is in play, etc. Its too much hand holding, both on killer and survivor side. And because of all that free information and hand holding we get garbage for horror elements. It literally kills the mood. I haven't even been able to put together a jump scare compilation in over a year because people just aren't immersed into the game. Its all UI and huge Tells. They even tell you what killer you're up against in the loading screen. Theres no mystery, theres no high skill caps, its just info leaks and survivors running around not feeling threatened in the slightest to even hide because the game gets dumbed down so much. If I had one wish for this game that would be it....just increase killer skill caps so it doesn't feel like we're running around hamstringed all the time by mechanics and bad hit validation and give us the payoff for actually learning and improving our skills. We only get 7 minutes in most cases to make 24 hits (32 for Nemesis) and 12 hooks to completely 4k a game. But given the games current state survivors complete damn near 50% of the objective in the first 2 minutes. Then you have killers who just can't perform because their kit only allows so much pressure. Its a mess and its been a mess for years. It used to be, "oh you can get away with running just 1 generator protection perk and be fine. Now people are running 3 to 4. Theres more second chance perks than ever. More healing perks than ever even after they did a pass to balance healing. And we still have to deal with perks and add ons that have little to no impact on a games outcome...
Now first of all I agree with some points you make.
Removing difficult mechanics that are rewarding to learn (Oni, Blight, Billy) is just bad. The goal should be to get you to play more to learn those mechanics and get better with them. However then you have survivors crying about how this mechanic is "unfun" like with the Artist now. Her crows allow some very fancy stuff and you as a survivor can make quit some fancy plays to evade them. What do the most vocal survivors say: Broken Killer, just hold W, no need to adapt.
And yes, there is too much handholding without any investment. If you invest in something via a perk it is okay. A Killer using Discordance makes an investment and gets to see how this plays out. Survivor can even figure out you have Discordance by your behavioure and try to play around it. This is good design in my opinion.
Same with boons: Survivors make an investment and get a reward. The Killer can make an investment to negate that reward. This mechanic in itself if no problem for me. The problem comes from the investment both sides have to make and that is does not add up.
Second change perks are also fine, depending on how you do them: Lithe is amazing if used correctly and can extend a chase for quit some time. A Dead Hard through the Killer to bamboozle him or to safe your friend with a flashlight might feels bad for the Killer but is a very cool situation for the survivor and honestly a great moment in the game. Dead Hard for distance on the other hand is pretty lame.
But please consider that many design choices need tons of time to be implemented. Devs can do stuff but they need time. Look at the new wiggle mechanic: Good stuff, you get a reward for good skillchecks, it is more interactive than button mashing and looks fancy. Yet it took them quit some time to get it ready and they were only able to announce it a day before they released it. This show how much work needs to be done in the background.
This difficulty makes it hard for fast changes to occure. The players are now way better than back then. But they are fast than the devs in exploiting new things.
The devs already removed tons of bad stuff from the game. Remember true infinites, old Deceisive Strike, the feeling of being exhaused on the ground after Dead Hard? Gone for good and I am not mad about it...keeping up with us as players is just hard because we are fast.
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I just had another interesting point to add: In his disturbed mind Bubba puts on the masks to be like the person he wears. He does this for their personality traits and to be of use for his family. As such he maybe puts on Claudettes face to be like her: Empathic and smart. Both are traits he can not grasp and he severly lacks.
A major problem with this is that the racists have won: They took that mask as a symbol and we let them. Now with their removal this is set in stone and nothing can be done. This is plain wrong: We should not let racists take symbols from us and not let them win.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735649#Comment_2735649
No, for this style, I only do sketchy looking like this, no cleaning or color. Though I dont think Im skilled enough to make a clean line animation.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OVUANTVAZINM/image.png
Thanks everyone : D
I like your sketchy look. It always puts a smile on my face when I see one of your works pop up here. Especially if it is Spirit.
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Changes need time...
Then again I also see too much Dead Hard. My problem is not that I dislike it that much, it just get's boring to see the same perk over and over again. An excuse can be made for Davids as it is their perk, however everybody is using Dead Hard and I seriously want to see some change to that.
Once again I am advocating for changes to the Exhaustion duration: Give Dead Hard 60 seconds exhaustion, reduce Lithe to 30 seconds, Smash Hit to 20 seconds, Balance Landing to 30, hell even that damn annoying Head On can be buffed, make it also 30 seconds for all I care...there is very little reason (aside from maybe coding issues) to leave all of those perks with their various power levels with the same downside...
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This macro is the reason I go after their team and if they overdo it I tunnel one of their teammates out one at a time. One of the only times I actually enjoy tunneling or a bit of camping. No, I will not put the clickerer on the hook, I will let their team die and ignore them.
@IamFran said:
Seriosly, I don't get why some people in this thread are against the removal of clicky-clicky. The only reason I think of is they like to do that and this doesn't speak nothing good about them as players.
The flashlight is intended for blinding the killer, with the clicky-clicky removed that feature remains, so...
I would add that it is also to remove Hag traps, Artist crows or to look at the ground on dark maps to evade dark Trapper traps. Sure you do not do that often but it happens. So the minimum duration should be around 1 second I guess at this is how long you need to remove a Trap/Crow, right?
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I still do not agree with the "old dark maps were creepy"-stance here. I for one think that Tompson House or Rancid Abattoir are great maps with the rotting meat everywhere, the dripping blood and the strange sunlight on the corn that may or may not contains a Killer. Bright maps can be creepy too, they are just more difficult to make.
Also a very good map: Silent Hill - Midwich. Yeah I know some people hat this map, but its horror atmosphere is top notch!
I think the game could add more disturbing stuff and imagery for sure: Auto Heaven is bad in this regard because I do not get that scrapyard feeling that well, it is too bright and the body part in the walls are not prominent enough to add to the concept. This map is the worst in my opinion: It plays like a visit to a park in the afternoon without and bushes where a murder could hide.
Overall DbD has very good horror but can still do more. Some places are a work of art that I enjoy, some Killer are scary when I let myself get immersed. But some aspects are breaking this: Bad Moris (looking at you Trapper and Wraith), lack of blood / permanent injury, easy healing, there are many things that can be done and I hope the devs will do this.
Oh and one more scary thing: I always flinch back when I play Demogorgon for the first time in a while when I open a locker...that sound...
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I would not compare those things or consider this a trade.
I dislike losing the masks as I enjoyed the idea that Bubba makes masks out of the survivors and I think he should get a new mask as compensation: One (or two depending on numbers) that contains pieces of every survivor as a reward for killing each one with a mori once.
I however also am greatly pleased that those voicelines are back and that it was Doug Bradley himself. This is a huge thing and I am hyped af to play as Pinhead as soon as this PTB goes to the live server. Good job from the devs here!
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You can select the "Killer" role, quip a green Mori and then kill Nea. Best I can do.
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I do think the game is survivor sided at high level. I think this is the case because I saw tournaments and I saw the exhibition matches from teams who demolished Killers who are otherwise quit competent.
I also think the game is killer sided at the lowest level. The Killers job is easier to understand than the survivors job and many new survivors are struggle with looping, doing generators, knowing where Hex: Ruin can spawn and other fundamentals.
In the mid level it is not "balanced" but you get a mixed bag. This is where I am and why I actually enjoy SBMM: I get Killers who are better then me and who are a real danger, I get survivors who are potatoes and where I as a Killer can capitalize on the weak link. With the Rank system I only got survivors who were above my level as an example. Now it is a 50/50 which is fine.
This is not to say that there are balancing issues on both sides: Prove Thyself, Hex: Ruin, Dead Hard, NoeD, Medi Kits, SoloQ survivors ... there is plenty of stuff that is unbalanced and needs some changes but both sides have that.
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@DeadByStreetlight said:
I like the pinky fingers nerf it was always unfun to play against, but at same time the clown himself needs a buff.
Problem is missing compensation. It is okay to nerf problematic add-ons but Clown got nothing in return and just another nerf to one of his few good add-ons. It is the same as with Deathslinger: Slinger was in need for a nerf to that insta-shooting but everybody knew that the old guy was not a good Killer to begin with. The insta-shoot was the only thing keeping him fun for people and when they took that away and left him with nothing well...guess what, Slinger just got less funny to play.
Same story all over again...
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For me tweaking numbers is the way to go.
Monthly number changes would be a good thing to react to certain developments in the game. Then more numbers you add to a perk then more screws you have to fix it.
As an example: Why does Dead Hard have the same Exhaustion duration as Smash Hit? Smash Hit should have half the duration of Dead Hard as best, making it more usable. Why does Cycle of Healing have the same AoE as Exponential? Exponential should get a buff to its radius and Cycle of Healing a nerf. No tweaks to functionality, just radii.
Same for Killer perks: Ruin could go down with its number, Eruption could go up. Also add-ons, offerings...well, everything except maybe the Powers of Killers or base game mechanics (running and walking speed, vaulting speed etc.).
I am all in for more numerical tweaks.
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How about we keep it hidden but add the mechanic of Hex: Plaything to it: Survivor can see the aura when within x meters from the boon. Something around 16m should be fine.
NoeD in itself is not a problem but I get the lack of counterplay. Its hidden nature is not part of the problem, Killers deal with hidden nature perks all the time and they do fine.
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I also do not understand this.
Nemesis has trouble getting to T3 anyway and T2 is taking quit some time. Marvins Blood was very essential for him to be consistent and they are nerfing that while buffing his zombies.
I like the zombies and their are a cool ability. However their AI is still braindead and their attacks are too slow to be meaningful. The zombie add-ons are a meme right now and will not help you that much anyway and now they are nerfing one of them? Sounds strange to me for sure...
Nemesis should get more interesting add-ons for sure. Maybe even some related to his Zombies of his infection.
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However this rises the question if you should throw something away just because people with malicious intent are using it. We let those racists claim the face masks now they are their symbol, a symbol of harassment.
Imagine something like this happening to other items or cosmetics. Should we just let them have it or should we fight to keep these things?
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@IsMmrReal said:
There is no way in hell these boons are fair at all. They legit give the survivors SUPER POWERS and the killer has to WASTE time snuffing it out. Please just delete them who ever had the idea please admit you just want the game to be broken.. Because 14 seconds is absolutely nothing to an efficient survivor.
I like Boons and just wished Killers had a cooler animation snuffing them. Just kicking them is kinda lame you know...
However I think that Boons need a few tweaks to match their power. Mainly they should come with different radii depending on their powerlevel. As an example: Cycle of Healing should be reduced to 16m radius, Shadow Step can remain at 24 meters and Exponential should be buffed to 28m. Different radii would buff or nerf the Boons quit well at it influences their coverage of the map.
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I just wanted to add a small note: They nerfed Clown and buffes Blight.
This is just top level clowning around when you read it like that. Ignoring everything else (and yes I see some good changes on the PTB too like Nurse and wiggle mechanics as well as quality of life), let it sink in for a moment that this patch in 2022 announced that Clown will get nerfed and Blight will get buffed.
This implements that Clown is overperforming while Blight is underperforming...
(Not talking about Twins here because Twins are a good and strong Killer, they just have unfun mechanics.)
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Oh no!
Anyway, I am going to play a few matches as Ghostface later, just having some fun, you know.
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I like him very much.
Just like you I am a huge fan of Hellraiser and I was very happy to receive Pinhead as a gift when he came out. I also P3ed him very quickly and I am still having fun playing him.
They nailed his design, his animations and his theme very well. The fact that he never uses his feet or hands to break anything but does everything with his chains is just perfect, his vault animation (even if I never see it myself) is dope as well and his chasing theme rocks. Not to mention his Mori. Good work.
His power is a bit on the weaker side, sure. You get punished quit a lot when you miss and the reward is not that great. However it is interactive: Survivors can dodge it and see it coming, you can curve it or cast it in front of the survivor and do a 360 turn...there are so many things to do and ways a survivor can counter it. With this even given the "weakness" it is fun to use which is way more important. Also you can not Dead Hard while on the chain, sweet.
His chain hunt is quit good as well. It was a major part of my enjoyment as I could just drop all regression perks aside from his own "Deadlock" and still had some form of slowdown with me. Good survivor deal with it pretty well, bad survivors get punished by it pretty much and the fact that survivors can see the cube means that they always have an option to stop the hunt. Good mechanic, please keep it this way.
The perks you get with him are also nice: Deadlock offers some form of slowdown and the Scourge Hook, while not as good as the Artists is nice. However Hex: Plaything became my favourite very quickly as it adds another objective for survivors without an op effect. I now use it on many Killers.
Overall: I love Pinhead and I am very excited to hear his voice again!
@Steel_Eyed said:
His chains come down to knowing when not to use them. When to just cancel.
He is extremely oppressive with the Iridescent Lament Configuration and Torture Pillar. Tack on Hex Ruin and Hex Undying. The passive slowdown from these addons and perks in combination with each other is usually unbearable for the survivors. I have never seen so many players just give up like against this. Makes me realize his nerfs were the right decision, yet they still work just like before.
I think the problem comes more from Hex: Ruin and Hex: Undying and less from his power. You just can not cleanse Hexes that well against a Cenobite. This illustrates that Hex: Ruin as a band-aid hinders the potential of more interactive and fun slowdown mechanics as you will always just slap Ruin onto them an ruin the fun.
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@RekLaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732532#Comment_2732532
I see. I guess I was wrong about that. but even so I still assume that the obsession has DS just to play it safe and also y’all need to realize DS is an anti tunneling perk. It’s not op it’s just a perk to stop tunnels from happening
Please note that I very much agree that NoeD should get a slight change. I am not in favour of this perk as it is now. I would retain it's hidden nature during the match but make it easier to cleanse once it becomes active by adding the mechanic of "Hex: Plaything" to NoeD.
Pulsar did a very good job of illustrating that "do bones" is not a valid argument by the way. Something that I would agree too.
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You opened a long data filled post and I came online just to read it and make a comment.
First and formost: Thank you for sharing your data. I know it took some work to get this done and reported and it also took time to post it here to share it. You also present it in a nice manner, no conclusions drawn too fast and everything in paragraphs so that nobody gets eye-cancer. Thank you very much.
No onto my comment to this whole thing.
At first I want to apologize for my fellow Bubbas. Seems like they are unable to grasp the magnificience of his ability to have fun while looping, chasing or chainsawing through survivors and embrace the dull feeling of staring at something. Cannibal can be pretty funny to play as and against when he plays and stops doing this...
I will atone for their sins by running Speed Limiter today.
It is also quit interesting that you never saw Plague or Oni during your matches. Both are pretty strong Killers, Oni with his snowballing potentcial to win on a single mistake and Plague especialy as she can negate the whole healing rush that is going on. I also wonder why so little Hag was played because she is pretty good too in my opinion.
I do not think it is strange that boons got snuffed so eagerly. Killers feel that pressure and as soon as they smell one they will snuff it. You ruin quit some work after all.
I am quit surpiced with the ammount of totems cleansed per map thou. I had imagined that Dead Dawg would take the cake but going by your data Suffocation pit is the map with the worst spawns in the game and Fathers Campbell's is a second to that. I would have imagined that Dead Dawg would take the cake here but with 1,66 it is at least close to Feahter Campbells...
Funny enough, RPD seems fine, as does Eeyrie, while Tompson House seems to have very weak spawns...never thought that it would be the worst totem map to be honest.
Now onto the bones. You report 3,05 bones for soloQ, 2,6 for duo and a whopping 3,5 for trio.
I think this illustrates that "do bones" is something most survivors do at some point. It also shows that for soloQ players around 2 totems remain in the trial which leaves room for "Hex: No one escapes Death" on the Killer side. This is not fine as I imagine that only the very good spawns remained for those ~2 totems making it pretty much impossible to escape the NoeD without any help (be it perks or a tweak to NoeD).
However it also shows that there should be room for some "Inner Healing" on the survivor side. If there are totems remaining you could very much just take that perk and get a good healing off while doing a bone.
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@Rizzo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733137#Comment_2733137
Nope, the voice actor is Doug Bradley himself.
...I so hope you are not kidding me.
I take the whole PTB without any game changes and another hit validation patch for this if it is true.
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This means that I am pretty excited for the PTB.
Also Nurse fixes. People have been asking for that for...well ever? and here they are. Also game health seemed to be an issue and they are slowly addressing it. I hope that they do many updates on this front.
Remember, this is a mid-chapter patch. Should be just a few tweaks and nothing major I guess even if I would have prefered Ghostface add-on pass for sure. Well, hope we get that for Scream 2022!
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@Marigoria said:
Bubbas camp all survivors, doesn't matter if it's a Claudette or not. His kit is almost made to just camp, that's why you see a lot of them doing it, because it pays off.
I think the toxic nea stereotype came from one big streamer and youtuber playing Nea and having a series called "toxic nea" even though he didn't even play toxic, he just did flashlight saves and whatever else.
Yeah, that's where it is from. To this day survivors try to flashlight blind me while injured because this very streamer showed that trick and to this day far to many survivors forgot that he used Iron Will for that stunt to work. Like trying to cook but missing an important ingredient...fun for me for sure.
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Oh no...anyway, I will now go on to have fun as Ghostface...
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[Bad Word combination] are you mad?
Racism is a very real problem. Get yourself together!
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I like to embrace the Leatherface stereotype: Agitation, Monstrous Shrine, Insidious, BBQ. Only to then suprice the Claudette when I go after her first and have a Speed Limiter on my chainsaw for the memes.
Stereotypes are there for people to have it easier to function in this world. You need them and build them up over experience or telltales from others. The first is not a problem the other often ends up being a dumb thing because it hit so rarely.
Take Claudette / Blendette once again: The stereotype is that she is hiding in the corner selfcaring while trying to be stealthy. Now I for one can say that I saw this from Claudettes do this quit often so I make fun about this. It is a personal experience at work, maybe with a bit confirmation bias.
However the "toxic Nea with a flashlight" stereotype is something I only know from dark tales. Never met one even thou many have the (pretty cool) sprayer skin. Rarely I see a toxic Nea, most times it is an ace or a basic Feng Min.
Point is that not every stereotype is the same. Some are true even if only for your own perception (Blendette) and others are untrue most times aquired by some memes or dark tales from the internet. Going by the first stereotype is helpful as it makes decision making easier, going by the latter is mostly harmful because you rely on other peoples experience in a situation where you need your own.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732520#Comment_2732520
I mean, it'd also drop to just one totem, so it'd be at least cleansable.
But you're missing the point. The whole counterplay is a major investment that massively backfires if the killer turns out not to have NOED. That's a part that's unfair that would technically be fixed if NOED was active from the start.
And how about we just make NoeDs totem visible to survivors once it activates like it is the case for Hex: Plaything. Then survivors could search for it and disarm it in time while still leaving the perk the same as it is now.
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@RekLaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732494#Comment_2732494
False there is not an obsession every game. yes it’s true the person with DS can not be the obsession but that’s very uncommon let’s be honest. Also the ones that are hidden are not insta win perks like NOED
False: From Patch 4.7 onwards every trial has an obession regardless of loadouts.
So lets be honest, your argument is invalid.
And NoeD is not an instant win. It is more likely to be one secured kill and nothing more.
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@RekLaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732484#Comment_2732484
Countered with ease is that what you said. First off built to last only works 3 times, second what do you expect me to do with iron will lose you immediately so I can go back and get it.And like I said earlier chests have a chance of not giving it to you.
What is the problem with Build to last?
Yes it "only" works 3 times. Still enough to take care of Franklin's. Going by your argument you should not even need the last stack of Build to Last unless you escape the chase somehow. And then you still have 99% of your item to work with the first time.
Going into a locker is quit easy and there are more then enough lockers on the maps. You do not even have to stay there for very long.
And no, I do not expect you to get ride of me just like that. But I probably have to chase you for about a Minute to get my Franklin's value here. And also I have to get a hit in on you first. It will happen, sure, but normally we are not going to start the chase with me getting a hit in on you.
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Ruin makes it quit hard to make new Regression perks as it is too easy to apply. Yes I know about the fact that survivors can cleanse it. But Hex: Ruin can still be quit the bummer especially for the lower ranks or in SoloQ.
Think about it this way: Cenobite himself is not that much of a problem for SoloQers. Cenobite with Ruin/Undying is pretty much a problem for them because the ammount of coordination gets too high. One person has to go after the box, one person has to take care of Ruin/Undying and the others have to do gens. Now if Cenobite goes after the person cleansing or gets his chainhunt going this will go downhill pretty quickly.
Hex: Ruin blocks many interesting regression options because you always have to consider if a perk could be too strong when you slap some Ruin into the mix.
@Dstorv : Very educated response. Got some more for my collection?
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I like seeing Deadmans Switch and Gearhead getting some love.
I can not wait to run Gearhead on some Killers once it comes live and see if I can make some funny play with that. Should be interesting to pick it on Wraith to juggle people, Ghostface for the lol, Spirit...I see some potential here. Not "meta" but fun.
Also Oni got a slight buff which is fine and I will try to use his buffed add-on. It sounds fun.
However I really hope they make those wiggle changes!
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@RekLaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732469#Comment_2732469
But you can use clues to know. if the jake is the obsession then he may have DS if that Claud has vaulted a window and didn’t take off then there is the possibility of lithe out the window. If you seen someone take off and there running really fast at the start then boom they have sprint burst.
There is a Obsession in every match even without a corresponding perk. Thus I would have to assume Deceisive Strike every game. Also you can have Deceisive Strike without being the obsession once more forcing me to play around a perk that is not there.
Adrenaline, Deliverance, Unbreakable...I'm all Ears, Undying...both sides have plenty of "hidden" perks that make quit a difference and you will only notice them once it is too late.
I am not saying that NoeD should stay the same. We can talk about it being too strong or having too little counterplay. I am just saying that the problem is not it's hidden nature in activation.
If I had to change it I would say that survivor can see the aura of the totem with NoeD the same way they can with Hex: Plaything. This would make its counterplay more accessible.
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@RekLaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732458#Comment_2732458
It’s a tease bro. I’m not body blocking sabotaging hooks, or going and camping every pallet I’m just repeatedly pushing a button. You want to know the solution to that, Ignore me
I have no problem with you flickering a flashlight at me. It is my decision as a Killer how to react to it. Sometimes I will take the bait like a good fish, sometimes I will murder your teammates for it and let you live for the jokes. No problem here.
People going for mass flashlight saves are usually pretty funny when I play against them and get pretty salty when they mess up and get slugged. Also they are not doing gens while I let that one person on the ground bleed out. No problem here again.
I will no go for such cheap complain where I can just adept my playstyle.
Okay, so your problem is that you can no longer stick to your plan because of this perk.
I get that I set up certain conditions. But please note that your scenario also comes at a condition: You have to play against a Killer who equips Franklyns. On some Killers this is useful on others not much. Now if you make up a scenario where one perk is mendatory it is only fair if my scenario also has some conditions.
Opening chests is quit the simple task as is running Iron Will. With Iron Will probably being the easier option. Another idea would be to run "Build to Last" which refills 99% of your item thus negating 89,1 seconds of Franklin's effect with ease.
As such you have a 1 perk option to counter 1 perk as a Killer. Your perk would even have an addition effect of refilling your flashlight even without Franklin in play.
Why should a perk be toxic when it can be countered with such ease?
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I do not think NoeD is unfair. Most times the answere to NoeD is to "just leave" or "remember the bones". However I get that "do bones" is not your thing, okay.
The interesting thing is you describe things about NoeD that makes it unfair that are true for most survivor perks: "it is hidden" = so is Adrenaline, there is no way to know it's coming = so is Dead Hard, "you have to play suboptimal" = so is Deceisive Strike. Wait...all three apply to Deseisive Strike as well: It is hidden for me as a Killer, I have no way to know it is coming and I have to play suboptimal to evade it.
The thing is, certain perks work around those characteristics and have a huge impact because of them. You could only evade this by showing off everybodys perks at the start of the game to both sides. This however would be pretty boring.
The hidden nature of a perk is fine and NoeD activates when everything is over for the most part. The only Killer where I would consider this especially bad is with Nurse but then again Nurse is bad with every lethality perk in the game.
@Pulsar : Please do so. It would be quit interesting to see what kind of impact this has.
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@RekLaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732437#Comment_2732437
Ah yes because if I get hit I’m not going to be in chase for a long enough time for the charges to run out. You really thought up that answer well.
Have one of your teammate pick it up for you, run back once you made distance, stealth to drop the chase (use Iron Will), you have your options. Funny note here: While the franklyned item gets depleted you can drop another item to pick up the franklyned one. And you can pick up a new item from a chest if you need one.
You also did not answere the question: Why does it ruin the fun?
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Why do you think it ruins the fun for survivor?
You item can be recovered and is not destroyed. Also this perk opens up some nice plays for the Killer and allows them to have a bait for survivor to come to.
A perk can not be toxic in itself by the way. Hex: No one escapes Death is not toxic even if survivors are trying to tell you this. It is a valid perk to run. The Killers actions with a certain perk can be toxic (facecamping with Insidious as an example) but not the perks.
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The report system is a bit vague yes. It should be clear however that tunneling and camping is not a reason to ban somebody just as tbagging and pointing is not a reason to ban somebody. These actions are rude do not get me wrong. But we do not need a rule for every bit of rudeness in the game.
Most anti-camping mechanics are getting abused by survivors pretty quickly. Just look how Borrow Time is used for bodyblocking time and time again. Some people are good sports about this and understand that if they try to bodyblock they risk getting hook again, some people are sore losers and will cry about tunneling when the Killers waits for BT to run out and puts them back on the hook.
And this is why there should not be a report about this: It would be abused to no end thus flooding BHVR with unreasonable reports and jamming their system.
They should work on their hacking detection for sure thou...
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It is sad that those mask are removed because of this reason. This for one is something I understand and I would further inquire why nothing was done about this racism from the player side. First the people who were abusing the masks should be punished for doing this.
I for one do not think that Bubba is blackfacing here. And even if he is: He is the Killer, the bad guy in the story, the one you are suppose to dislike. He makes masks out of peoples skin. Just as Freddy is a pedo and should not be your role model Bubba is too. But this debate is now futile as the feature is gone so this is fine now.
I can get it if people are chasing certain survivors for those masks. It is a "fun goal" to go after a survivor to get a cosmetic. However this in itself is a problem because this means that only those 4 survivors will get targeted. Thus the option was to either make more masks or remove them.
Now, I am quit sad that they are gone. I just got my first mask this week only to have it remove a few hours later without ever being able to use it. This mechanic to unlock face masks seemed quit cool for me and I liked playing Bubba for the memes anyway.
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I like the idea that this perk is getting some love. Now nerf Hex: Ruin for good and maybe can finally see some more diverse regression/slowdown perks...
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@SofaReks said:
I got a guide on my youtube and am always down for advice 😁🤝
Been there and seen it. You were one of the first things that popped up to me when I strayed away from streamers who play every Killer a little bit. The guide helped me quit a bit even if I am still trying to get down some mechanics (I find curving quit difficult especially with speed add-ons) and watching you got me to play "no clobbering" too which is tough but I am slowly feeling the results.
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Sounds like a fun build for me. Something that could be good and not uses Ruin/Undying is a step in the right direction. I think Freddy will like this perk too as he can just hook, BBQ, teleport and block the generator same for some other Killers too. Sound interesting and maybe this makes Deadmans Switch a nice perk.
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729164#Comment_2729164
Claudette face + tunnelling / camping Claudettes or Adams or streamsniping PoC streamers
Urgh, seriously. People can snuff out all the fun for me...
I get that you tunnel certain characters for "in game reasons" just like Nemesis could tunnel Jill or Chris. But harming people outside of the game or targeting them for something like this...okay, I miss my cool feature but I understand this.
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@Regulus47 said:
This would be a perfect way to stop facecamping with this killer. He can't rev his chainsaw when close and if he is already using it, the chainsaw ends when it goes in this range.
In return maybe buff his token recharge speed or make the tantrum shorter. I don't know. But this would completely solve the facecamping problem!
Just as an example of how bad this would be: What if we stop survivors from holding shift + w for more than 2 minutes. This is plenty of time for them to do stuff and a stamina bar would add a new system that would require management during the chase...
Same baseline: Think about how it could be abused to no end.
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I am curious now: Why was it removed? What had people done with those things?
I just got my first face yesterday because I never farmed for it. But not I can no longer use it. This makes me sad as I though it was such a cool feature for Bubba.
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@PlayTwink said:
No changes for Legion and Ghost Face, but yet you buffed addons for Letherface that is already in good state. Another useless buffs for perks and addons that no one will use them anyway, because of the meta. Yet you decided to nerf somehow decend for some killers for literally no reason.
No changes for Boons, Dead Hard and Cenobite whatsover. What's the point of even playing in this tomorrow's PTB?
But yeah removing masks for Letherface is such a high priority right now, awesome.
Just wait for the PTB. This is not everything and you should leave your critique for the final Patch Notes. This is just an update on their thought-progress.
And why nerf Cenobite? He is already in a good spot, not too strong and not too weak. His base power is maybe even of the shorter end of the stick with its risk to reward ratio and little reward for long range shots.
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Yes, but it depends on the Killer I play.
As Billy/Oni I like to let Leons escape narrowly. I hook them 2 times, I hit them once and then just barely miss the final attack by accident of course. I also have a soft sport for Davids who play dangerously and daring.
As Pinhead I have a soft spot for Billy as we are both old soldiers.
And as Spirit it is Mikaela who get to go when she apeases the ghost.
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I do not see a problem here.
My skill and reflexes dull with certain Killers and with the game overall when I do not play for a while. With Elden Ring coming up I have another game that I will play to no end and this will leave me with less time for DbD maybe even leading to a break.
After more than a month I would not be able to play against the same level as before. Plain as that.
This makes it more fun for returning players and is a good decision.