Gardenia
Gardenia
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- Gardenia
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@DenimChicken said:
His FF isn't even that great of a power anymore to lose it on the first missed attack.
Yes exactly
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@DenimChicken said:
Playing on console you'll likely miss due to lag or frame rate on the first hit. I just won't play legion anymore I got other killers to play.
It's insane, they say that they care about fun but losing your power with one single miss is not fun, its frustrating. They were too harsh with legion, his power needs to be slightly more forgiving they went to darn far.
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@Schwifty said:
I never really got into Legion until the nerf though oddly enough I find I'm doing modestly well. Better than I do on most other Killers. Just need a couple of tweaks to the add on's that affect bleed out timer to make them actually worth taking again and we're good.
Yes he just needs a bit more fine tuning and he will a better killer lol
I would love to see the devs do something else with the Fuming Mixtape, on top of the aura reading that is.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/487456#Comment_487456
"It's the difference of waiting for a whole meter to charge before using frenzy and also learning to conserve your frenzy (the bar) to initiate at the right time."
Having to wait a little longer to use his power did not change his play style.
"Also, the recent change, gives reworked add-ons (KI, and Pins) that give subtle nuances to how you use FF when hitting them."
Those effects for a second FF hit on survivors already afflicted by Deep Wounds are trash. This was already acknowledged even by the devs and they are looking at making them just apply on the first hit. You shouldn't be using them in the first place with how they are right now.
"I'm sorry to ask, but have you played Legion extensively? Because those changes do have an impact on playstyle."
I never said they didn't have an impact on his playstyle. My issue is that you vastly exaggerate with your choice of words in regards to his changes to a point that wasn't that accurate. I have played him extensively. Have you been playing him at rank 1?
First, I have to strongly disagree with having to wait a "little longer" not changing his playstyle. How many time could you catch up to a person or would like to use FF to get a hit off a person? In my experience in Red Ranks, it's many many times. A hit is crucial and saving when to get a preemptive strike is impactful and does make a difference.
Secondly, just because the Add-ons are "trash" doesn't mean it doesn't open up room for more ideas in the design space. Giving him effects to his hits in FF does indeed give more agency in playstyle. And additional effect of your choosing while also under DW is enticing and allows flexibility in playstyle.
And finally, because you perceive my words as exaggerated that not my problem, I actually have very valid points as to why I used the words I did and even included succinct definitions for you to follow. If you don't like the way I use my words that has nothing to do with me, but how you perceive things. I can see the subtly in all of these changes.
Doesn't mean I'm exaggerating.
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@Plu said:
Weird title, but regarding Legion I just hope the dev realise that he doesn't need such a restricted power if it can't down people, and revert back his Ff movespeed,Vault speed and makes FF usable even when not fully charged.
We have a stupidly long stun anyway and Cd add-ons don't help much so we can't get a easy M1 hit down out of frenzy anymore, it gives surv enough time to get to a safe spot, and will provide Legion with a pretty good mobility at the cost of blood and scratchmark tracking.
Due to the changes to his add-ons and mechanics overall, I think they're trying to push him more into tracking and detection. Like hunting in an odd way, similar to doctor I believe. Who knows, but I can't wait to see what they do.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/487446#Comment_487446
"Once again, after the PTB just a month or two later(this one involved using frenzy regardless whether the bar is full or not."
This was not a change to his play style.
His only "real" change was that now he just stabs each person 1 time and he has full move speed.
That basically encapsulated the extent of his changes worth noting. Not dynamic or unique, much less extensive.
His changes were on par with Freddy's. Even Myers changes were probably more extensive than Legions.
How can you say it wasn't a change to his playstyle?
It's the difference of waiting for a whole meter to charge before using frenzy and also learning to conserve your frenzy (the bar) to initiate at the right time. Those are subtle yet important impacts when playing Legion, especially making the difference of how often you can use your power.
Also, the recent change, gives reworked add-ons (KI, and Pins) that give subtle nuances to how you use FF when hitting them. Giving enhanced Tracking and detection while also adding to survivors time wasted.
I'm sorry to ask, but have you played Legion extensively? Because those changes do have an impact on playstyle.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/487431#Comment_487431
I think you are highly overexagerrating the length of his changes and the time that those changes took to come through in comparison to other killers.
I'll list the occasions of the changes.
Once upon the First Iteration of the PTB.
Once again, after the PTB just a month or two later(this one involved using frenzy regardless whether the bar is full or not.
And again just a month or so after that change. Where we now have this current legion.
Each time he was changed his mechanics and playstyles we're altered.
I also said 3-4 times within a span of 5-6 months.
I don't know of any other killer to continually be looked into for a prolonged period within a small amount of time. Especially where their playstyles we're significantly shifted each time.
Can you name one aside from Legion?
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@FireHazard said:
He USED to be the most dynamic and unique killer until he was nerfed into the dirt.
Now hes just a mindless M1 Killer with a power that is only good for chain stabbing if you're lucky that you can make it to other Survivors that know to run away.
I'm not talking about his power design wise.
I'm speaking as a whole killer on the killer roster he's definitely an anomaly. He's unique that way and also dynamic as the devs keep changing him, it's like playing a new killer everytime.
And this has happened within only 5-6 months at least 3-4 times.
Add to that unique skins for each legion member, I like it.
@Supernaut said:
Personally, I'm really liking him. I would like to see the loss of charge on missed attacks addressed and perhaps an easier time on deviousness category blood points (its what we're all here for!) But the free opening hit and extended killer instinct is great!
I do miss my Franklins spam build though 😢
I am definitely loving the new emphasis on Using KI, it adds a new layer of strategy to them.
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@Blueberry said:
You said, "Why Legion is the most dynamic and unique killer so far" and then went on to list zero reasons.
The title of your discussion has nothing to do with what you wrote.
"Dynamic"= Change
Unique = The only killer in such little time to drastically be changed in such a way that heavily affects game play.
I thought it was obvious.
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They really messed my favorite killer up..
It's not really fun to play as him anymore, but they don't care about our fun only survivors apparently. Whoever suggested the 1 miss deplete power thing is stupid.
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You're not supposed to counter it.
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@BlackReaper said:
In that case literally you dont have a chance but its hard for others killers, maybe a bit far the gates from each other, the only thing we can be sure is that we cant balance de EGC for one or two special killer (Im thinking in nurse), others killer just will struggle if that happen.
Actually, I prefer the balance around those two killers since they are the strongest in the game, then it will force them to bring other killers up or around the level of power those two have. Tbh, it makes no sense to me how they can't account for the 2 most played and most powerful killers in the game when incorporating this stuff.
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Just random FYI, NOED doesn't work with her Corrupted Purge
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I wholeheartedly agreeThe_Crusader said:
Thank you! This is what I have been saying for ages.Gardenia said:It discourages me from continuing to play the game. I hate the low ranks, and it happens once month, imagine finally getting to a rank you want them you're back at like rank 12 with sweaty wraiths and potato teammates..... Something should be done about this, why havent they shaken things up yet?
Additionally, because of the reset my rank is lower so now I have to wait forever for a lobby to fill with survivors... C'mon...do something different it's been over 3 years
I have hundreds if hours on the game. I enjoy playing high ranks and I tend to fit in easily there.
Once a month I go down and get put with less experienced players. To make matters worse if you don't play much and don't rank up quickly after reset then you get behind and get put with more newbies. In addition to that after resetting from rank 1 to rank 10, if you dont play much the following month and only rank up to say rank 7 then you go further behind the following month and go back to rank 13 or something.
It can be so frustrating with so many hours on the game being put with people who really don't know how to play it well. People who crouch in a corner at the other side of the map when you're on the hook even though the killer is chasing someone else, people who think it's ok to pull you off the hook in front of the killer, or killers who just never leave the hook area in general. I know these can happen at high ranks too but they are far less common.
I'm sure the new players are having a blast too if they get looped for multiple gens, or if they all get sacrificed before they even manage to spawn the hatch. I know I enjoyed being looped endlessly when I first started /sarcasm.
Something needs to change. Experieced players with 1500 hours shouldn't be getting put with people with under 100 hours. That's how it was for me when I first started. -
Killers that are designed to be fair and balanced while fun for both sides. The power is something interesting.
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Idk, I understand what everyone else is saying. But if you have to make no mistakes and be near perfect in gameplay to kill a majority of the survivors, then I'd say something isn't right here.
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This is why the devs don't listen to us....
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It looks like noed is doing it's job
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My Julie needs more cosmeticsIceman said:Chapter 10 is my favorite so far and I look forward to the next chapter. They can easily create a Scream inspired cosmetic for The Legion. -
Stop hating on legion, sheesh lol
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I certainly agree with your concluding comments. There does need to be a much more dynamic way of measuring what a "win" is considered. And I would love each survivors ranking individually. The conditions of win/lose need to have a second look. But on the whole I agree with everything you've said, hopefully they read this constructive post and elaborate this suggestion.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:@Gardenia said:
Any thoughts on this?I have a lot of thoughts on this: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/41674/why-everything-you-believe-about-rank-in-dbd-is-wrong/p1
You are right that the Ranking system needs a rework.
Instead of using the Emblems the way we currently do, we can indeed use them as Rank-Domain icons, similar to LOL.In order to do that however we to create an opposite win-condition, where either the killer or the survivors win. (Survivors could still win individually).
If we'd have such a system in place then we'd still not be finished.
Ranking up to the higher emblem status involves a certain win/loss ratio. "Win" being categorized as a win condition on the end result screen.
This is of course very unfair in an asymmetrical game. That is why we need to have the match have true opposite win-conditions for the killer and survivor, BUT we need to RANK the killers among killers and only survivors among other survivors.
Simply saying that you rank up based on you winning would be unfair in an asymmetrical horror game; What if we expect survivors to win 60%? Then you shouldn't be able to climb if you score anything below that at such a rank, thus such a factor needs to be taken into consideration in the form of:
In order to climb in rank, you must achieve ABOVE AVERAGE results in that faction and rank in order to climb, which means that the game no longer has to be balanced between killers and survivors, because our rank system would function regardless.
We'd also need a more dynamic measurement other than; x amount of people died/lives, while not screwing up the way the Devs did with the current Emblem system.
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Any thoughts on this?
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To be honest some of you all calling her ugly.....probably don't look any better (no offense just saying lol)
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Well then they need to make up their damn minds on whether they want it to be a competitive game or a casual game. I'm tired of this pseudo competitive BS, why include a rank if their going to do that. They could've add another way of separating experienced season players from the non experienced players. Why the hell is their a reset? They've been teetering on this edge for so long, and they don't change any of the core mechanics. Honestly, they themselves have encouraged a competitive playstyle and as such you have both sides going to extremes.twistedmonkey said:
But that's the thing if the majority of matches are balanced as the kill ratio shows then does it not come down to the gen rush as shown in the video being the smaller percentage? If not there would be no rank 1 killers and they would not on average kill more than survive.PandaChris said:@twistedmonkey said:
What can happen and what does happen are always two different scenarios.I fully understand that. But you are now talking about % chance. What is more likely, getting gen rushed or having a huntress with not only Iridescent Head but with the combination that gives them 3 1 shot down hatchets. So i feel its flawed to say, ya you might get gen rushed 20% of the time (random number) but thats okay cause you might get a huntress with that loadout 5% of the time. Both can happen sure but that doesnt mean they should be compared just because they "can" happen.
I think the biggest issue in this whole game is some take it way too seriously, DBD has and never will be a highly competative game, the words the devs use most and fun and engaging now what is fun to players is subjective but to be truly competative in this game you need to play in certain ways most say are not exactly fun.
Once people realise a game is for enjoyment, you don't always win and that the game is about grinding more than anything else maybe they will learn to relax a little and stop the whole us v them, nerf this buff this attitude which has always been the game of this game.
I posted a video earlier where tru got a 4k 18 hours before the ops video with a no perk wraith, does that mean the Wraith is not balanced and too strong? That's a laughable comment to be fair but it proves a point as if this was such a major issue a some make it out to be it could never happen. -
That makes sense.Vietfox said:
Because they got a good map pressure with the current gen speed. If we increase the time it takes to repair gens that means we are buffing them indirectly.Gardenia said:
Why do Billy or Nurse need to be nerfed? In regards to generator damage?@Vietfox said:I would be down for this, but if devs nerf the gen speed they should also nerf killers who do well with the current system, like Billy or Nurse. -
Nurse will continue to exist the way she is until genrush, and the mechanics for survivors are slightly reworked.
As long as there are SWF deathsquads out there, Nurse shall remain unbothered... -
Why do Billy or Nurse need to be nerfed? In regards to generator damage?Vietfox said:I would be down for this, but if devs nerf the gen speed they should also nerf killers who do well with the current system, like Billy or Nurse. -
It's a damn glitch, calm down. This is a not so smart thread....
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You all really refuse to see there is a problem with this game and generators. The devs do need to add another objective, also why would he go for the gen almost done if even with him damaging it, survivors will go right back on it and the damage doesn't reduce much progress.
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I'm happy that you find enjoyment in this game, I used to as well but now it's not quite the samelasombra1979 said:I find it enjoyable. I enjoy trying different strategies. Some work, some don't. Also I guess I may be odd but I don't find playing killer stressful. I realize I win some and lose some. -
The thing about this, is that it's not enjoyable. You can employ all of these solutions, but the end result is that it's not enjoyablelasombra1979 said:Legion needs balance. Use gen pressure, avoid being sucked into death loops, and know when to quit a chase.
Other option is to run a 3 gen game. Gives you map control and forces all survivors into a smaller area.
I'm sorry it's not fun for killers or Survivors in my opinion. It's unnecessarily stressful for no reason. And even when you win, you can barely feel a sense of accomplishment only relief that you manage to make it through the game as killer. Idk, something in the games formula needs to change...
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What? No these are real issues. It's not some made reason as to why killers are bad or anything. I hope the devs aren't oblivious to these issuesMyerinodudd said:You need to patrol gens more.Also survivors doing their objective and maybe they opened chest or did 2-3 totems it is not called gen rush. I am sorry but it means you are bad at killer.(even the community manager said these things to me) -
I'm trying to figure out why some people are doing mental gymnastics to place the Blame on the one being insulted, rather than the a-hole.
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I read it all, and I practically feel the exact same way. Killer is borderline unplayable at times and survivors being toxic and or taunting doesn't make it better. The community is growing, but at what cost?
For more toxicity? For more swf who's enjoyment is making the match unenjoyable for killers?(not the casual swf)
It's really sad, because through all of this, the devs philosophy is fun but it really just seems more so fun for the 4 and not for the 1. We get it's supposed to be a challenge to capture Survivors, no one wants an easy 4k all the time. But with every update, every aura reading perk on both sides released, and every impotent killer released, we inch closer to the devs goal of actually "breaking" the game.
Something really needs to change, alot of people don't like legion simply because he is the culmination of all the bad abusable mechanics of dbd.
He represents the build up of the devs focusing on chase gameplay rather than stealth. He represents the feeling of looping to Survivors now as this hasn't been fixed yet. But really, it's just because BHVR, hasn't found another way to allow survivors to survive. Many times they loop because it seems like the best way to survive to them.
We are really at the breaking point honestly..... -
I don't think so, because its jumpscarey and also, I don't find it happens every match. And if they do have prayer beads I normally just judge how far she is before I start the gen. I honestly don't like feeling safe on gens that's why I like vs Myers as well.DwightsLifeMatters said:
Why tho? Isn't it absolutely stupid to get free grabs over and over again?Gardenia said:Prayer beads should be left alone, however nurses extra blinks should go. -
I like this ideaNickenzie said:
I feel like for every totem in the map, the generators will take 5% longer which is a maximum of 25%. This actually makes totems a secondary objective and cannot be ignored. Therefore, this will slow the game down while not being generator simulator since you're hunting totems.Vietfox said:I agree, but if devs are going to nerf gens speed they should nerf billy and nurse as well. Why? Because they got enough map pressure with the current gen speed. -
They still shouldn't because honestly Billy and Nurse are pretty much the exception not the rule.Vietfox said:I agree, but if devs are going to nerf gens speed they should nerf billy and nurse as well. Why? Because they got enough map pressure with the current gen speed.
Those are only 2 killers out of 14, meanwhile survivors are every match. And the majority. -
Prayer beads should be left alone, however nurses extra blinks should go.
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It's not even just the ptb, the live version as well. This patch with legion made them realize splitting up to do the objective instead of grouping together is more efficient, and now that survivors actually do the objective instead of trying to meme around, we see that we're in desperate need of another objective or something. It's absolutely ridiculous the speed at which gens can get done. On top of that, I really don't wanna hear that you don't wanna press m1 longer during the match, it doesn't have to be making gen times longer, but create a second objective or at least increase the amount of gens needed to open the gates. It's ludicrous.nøbødy said:Thank god for the ptb, am I right? -
I totally agree and feel the same way. That's why I was like it's trying to force you to play a certain way, even though it's harsher in emblems in comparison to survivor side.George_Soros said:I'm gonna copy my post here from another thread, because I love advertising my thoughts
Killer emblem system is indeed broken. Survivor is ok: it's a good concept to reward survivors with emblem score for evading, helping others and doing gens.
Killer system on the other hand, is just wrong. It betrays a somewhat sweaty attempt from the developers to incentivize a "nice" gameplay. That's why you lose emblem points (although not a lot) if you camp, that's why you, interestingly enough, end up with more pips if survivors keep unhooking each other and you hook them again.
I honestly believe it is not necessary to be so hellbent on forcing killers to play a certain way. I don't mind salt, I think the best way to play is to be as ruthless and possible: if you slug all four of them and then go and hook, and they all die on their first hook, it should count the same as having a 4K by repeatedly downing, letting them rescue then hooking again. Killer requirement for pips should be:
0K = -2 pips
1K = -1 pip
2K = black pip
3K = +1 pip
4K = +2 pipsI understand it may lead to more camping, but there are better ways to counter that. Gameplay mechanics should reward a more intense and fun playstyle, not some point system. I'd completely go for a change where sacrifice stages are longer, making camping less rewarding. If I was a dev, I'd even consider changing the mechanic of three hook stages to a simple "hook health" bar system, where, if you're hooked, your "hook health" slowly goes down (like when you're downed and bleeding out), and if you're unhooked at, say, 67%, you'll continue from there when you're hooked again.
These are just ideas, there might be better ways. But my main point is, the success of a killer is much more objectively measured by how many kills they have. If it leads to a more tryhard playstyle, that's for the better. Kills are what we care the most about when playing killer, and it would be definitely better than some patronizing, "play-nicey" approach forced on us.
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I've honestly just had the same experience, you don't even feel the slightest bit of control because in your mind you know they're gonna get the person, so at that point it's damage control and collateral. I know the feeling....
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I get what you're saying, but tbh I still think that's messed up. Ranking up and fun are just two terms I barely use to describe when playing this game.anarchy753 said:It's like these emblems try to force you to play a certain way.
They do, it's the entire point of the emblem system. You rank up for playing a game that's interactive and has meaningful survivor killer interactions.
Killers won't rank up if they don't get a lot of hits, or hook progression, or don't keep generators from being done, or simply don't kill enough people.
Likewise, a survivor that hides from you all game and avoids meaningful interaction with you, or doesn't help teammates will have a hard time ranking up. Similarly a survivor who tries to be in your face all game and isn't altruistic and doesn't contribute to generator progress will struggle to rank up.
The point of the ranks are basically to incentivise 'fun' play for both sides, not only one. Ie, a cheap one hit down and kill on first hook from end game camping isn't going to get you far because you haven't won a lot of chases, inflicted lots of hits etc.
Often easier killer builds are also at risk. Huntress with her scummy one shot hatchets halves chases and halves amount of hits. Myers with Tombstone often loses many chases, gets genrushed and doesn't injure anyone, so even if he murders everyone it doesn't rank him up much.
And in the end, rank means very little. Constant resets and the ability to derank means the pool of players at around rank 10 often contains many of the players you may encounter at rank 1 a different day.
I always see one or the other, you meme around and have fun at the cost of constantly depipping and deranking, or you try your best in such an agonizing way that's not fun, to get to rank 1 which is the epitome of anti fun.
This game is all over the place honestly... -
They should include a perk that still does this, instead name it something else.
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I feel like some of you haven't really tried to understand Legions power no matter how "lame" it is. I like them so much, there are some perks out there that synergize with Legion very well Actually and some work arounds. His power should be more lerhal, so if there is a rework I would like more lethality.
Deep wounds is a great concept and it would do better if it's base was at the speed of "stab wounds study" which makes it a threat to mend immediately, thus other legions won't feel the need to follow them after hitting them with frenzy.
I have something in store for Legion though.... -
I agree! I love everything about the LegionKingB said:It would be cool if whatever killer you had selected last before loading up the main menu determined what music is played. The legion music is amazing.
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To be frank(no pun intended) the lessen of the VFX blur while in frenzy isn't a buff.twistedmonkey said:Sounds like a whine post complaining about whiners tbh.
The one part of the buff they planned was op there are multiple videos showing what was happening, they are still getting two out of the three buffs being tested.
If you bought something to to it being on the ptb well what can I say, nothing on the ptb is ever guaranteed so its a lesson learned. -
See Ray Penber, it's articles like this which is why light wrote your name in the death note lol. However, I do somewhat agree
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I am not. Actually making this thread we've uncovered some other issues of why the game is unenjoyable and unbalanced. A killer should have base mori for the last Survivor, however ebony mori should not exist.Iceman said:@Gardenia
when there are 3+ survivors you need 4gens done to escape through the hatch. It is time consuming to look for the hatch. And by the time you do it find it, the last gen has already popped.
Also only swf are able to coordinate well with using the key. Solo players either just jump in the hatch in hope that you find it or you can message each player which takes time. Then you risk getting the birds flying over your head or either the killer finding you.
I am fine with the current mechanic of keys and moris
Keys needs tweaking, and so does the conditions for the hatch. To prevent hatch camping of a fellow survivor and also "hatch standoffs"(I just leave). Some of these things make the game unhealthy. -
That's a good ideaPolarBear said:Just remove moris and keys. I don't see a reason why either should still be in the game. If removing moris makes it too difficult to complete the mori daily then maybe there could be general mori perks. Someone suggested adding cypress mori as baseline, that could also work.
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Ebony Mori's can go yes. Other Mori's should stay though.Delfador said:Ebony mories and key should just go. I think neither of them are healthy for this game.
I would argue that insta heals and certain addons should be removed as well but at this point, it is whatever. As both sides I can tolerate them.