DexyIV
DexyIV
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- DexyIV
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@ShyN3ko said:
@DexyIV said:
New DS, you just slug the person you downed off the hook. This has always been the best thing to do, as it applies more pressure, especially if you still have the unhooker in view.Not many run Botany, We'll Make It is simply better. Plus it only applies to your healing, not everyone's healing. As a killer you can apply Sloppy Butcher to everyone you hit.
Survivors can counter everything.
So can killers, now that DS got changed, and even then Enduring was an option.
We'll Make It doesn't even come close to countering Make Your Choice. Unhookers will run when they get exposed, and leave the one they saved to be healed by someone else. I don't know how you could even compare the two. Not always knowing who unhooked is a balance factor to the perk, so that's not worth complaining about.
BBQ already had counters before Distortion, and is still a crazy powerful perk even with the added counters. As a killer, much of your skill is knowing where the survivors will be even without BBQ auras. Sometimes it works, sometimes you don't see any auras.
Ruin is situational, and gen tapping wastes even more time in the long run.
Enduring isnt a DS counter.
And BBQ isnt powerful.
Because if the survivors are bad = it work.
If the survivors are good = it doesnt work.
And if you are alone, you can do a gen in 85 seconds with gen tapping.Enduring is actually a DS counter, but with new DS you don't need it, so debating that is pointless.
Same reasoning you use for BBQ applies to NOED, which is a powerful perk as well. Even without auras always being seen, it has the BP bonus. Good killers don't always need to see every aura though, and not seeing at least 1 aura is fairly rare, so the solution to that is just getting better.
If you only lost 5 seconds from gen tapping, everyone would gen tap, including rank 1 players. So what you say there simply isn't true.
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Honestly it would probably be more advantageous for survivors than killers since survivors have 3rd person. It would be so easy to drop a pallet and then sprint behind some cover to UE out of a chase
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@Brady said:
Just make it where the number of totems left on the map are shown in the HUD or via the perk Small Game.That way, you know if there's a totem left
That way, you know whether to be cautious of NOED or not.
That's actually a great change. I personally think it should be worked into Small Game though. Sacrifice a perk slot to gain more information as a solo survivor and find the totems faster.
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Definitely not. Same could be said if there were no scratch marks lol
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New DS, you just slug the person you downed off the hook. This has always been the best thing to do, as it applies more pressure, especially if you still have the unhooker in view.
Not many run Botany, We'll Make It is simply better. Plus it only applies to your healing, not everyone's healing. As a killer you can apply Sloppy Butcher to everyone you hit.
Survivors can counter everything.
So can killers, now that DS got changed, and even then Enduring was an option.
We'll Make It doesn't even come close to countering Make Your Choice. Unhookers will run when they get exposed, and leave the one they saved to be healed by someone else. I don't know how you could even compare the two. Not always knowing who unhooked is a balance factor to the perk, so that's not worth complaining about.
BBQ already had counters before Distortion, and is still a crazy powerful perk even with the added counters. As a killer, much of your skill is knowing where the survivors will be even without BBQ auras. Sometimes it works, sometimes you don't see any auras.
Ruin is situational, and gen tapping wastes even more time in the long run.
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I dunno, because they want to? I don't use items anymore usually, but why does it matter if anyone else does? Killers use addons, they use moris. I don't see why survivors can't use items that give an advantage as well.
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I'm tired of seeing these posts, but I will still put in my two cents.
No. There's no reason, both balance-wise and thematically, to build NOED into the end game. Rewarding killers for letting survivors get to the end game with no effort on their part is one thing, not having a counter to said reward is a completely different ballgame. Something tells me that the endgame changes they were talking about is not this. Thank goodness.
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@Hoodedfengm1n said:
@DexyIV said:
The weekly NOED posts are turning daily now. Make it stop >.<Stop baiting people into these pointless debates when the devs have made it clear they're not going to do anything about NOED for the time being. Let the survivors complain, just stop provoking them for no reason lol
does anyone read?
I read it. It's still provoking pointless debate about the perk by saying the obvious counter of cleansing totems, just like the hundreds of other NOED posts on this forum. This debate is even more heated right now because of the DS nerfs, and people somehow think NOED and DS are on the same level. It gets us nowhere talking about it because of what I said previously. It's just better to not
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The weekly NOED posts are turning daily now. Make it stop >.<
Stop baiting people into these pointless debates when the devs have made it clear they're not going to do anything about NOED for the time being. Let the survivors complain, just stop provoking them for no reason lol
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They have tools to their disposal to get in a game of their preference and expectations, so they should be able to use them. Just like you have items to your disposal. I say the exact same thing to killers when they complain about SWF. Lobby dodging is fine.
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@Arroz said:
@DexyIV said:
@Arroz said:
@DexyIV said:
It has a counter now! That's a good thing btwIt has a counter that cannot be countered by anything.. (Except dont get hook, similar to dribble), For me the mori is the new decisive strike, i dont complain about ds, there's a lot of better perks.. anyways i think im gonna use ds now, cause i really hate tunneling, but it's more weak than distortion...
All you had to do was dribble to the first hook and a similar thing happened anyway. Not much changes, it just makes DS more balanced
But at least you can get bodyblocked/flashlight saved, now you can't that's the difference
The number of times that happens is pretty small unless you're SWF. This isn't a big deal. You'll just have to adapt. Might want to learn to use other perks if this is such a big deal to you.
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@Arroz said:
@DexyIV said:
It has a counter now! That's a good thing btwIt has a counter that cannot be countered by anything.. (Except dont get hook, similar to dribble), For me the mori is the new decisive strike, i dont complain about ds, there's a lot of better perks.. anyways i think im gonna use ds now, cause i really hate tunneling, but it's more weak than distortion...
All you had to do was dribble to the first hook and a similar thing happened anyway. Not much changes, it just makes DS more balanced
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It has a counter now! That's a good thing btw
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@DarkGGhost said:
@DexyIV said:
@DarkGGhost said:
@DexyIV said:
You can counter it by just not tunneling. It's easy lolIn other words give them free escape and force the kille to play a way he/she may don't want
Tunneling harms you in the long run. Killers that tunnel are the ones to harm themselves by doing this, yet complain about genrushing because they have no idea how to pressure survivors off gens.
Adapt. Blood Warden helps against the free escapes. Blood Warden NOED is pretty strong. If you don't like NOED like me, then Rancor can synergize pretty well with it as well, and the new DS may make the perk more worthwhile.Ok, why the killer should play with one or other way why he/she can play as he/she likes. By saying "look we may have DS and those you will get punish because you play to win, no matter if you camp or tunneling" the game began again survivors side and way more than before because kill can't kill survivor fast enough.
Because it's the most effective. Bad killers rely on tunneling and whine about being genrushed. That's why this is good. It promotes more efficient and skillful gameplay. Play how you want, probs wont get far if you tunnel XD
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Stop. It has counters now. It's no longer your win-all perk for no effort on your part. Plus it powercreeps going after the unhooker or other survivors, which is what killers should have been doing all along. It's an amazing change
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@HatCreature said:
@DexyIV @fluffybunny I've edited the discussion to reflect a better idea.Downsides for only survivors? I'd be okay with that, I guess. Kind of like a Dying Light type thing. Then again, it is kinda a downside to be endlessly tunneled due to Remember Me or Dying Light, or instakilled late game without being hooked due to Rancor, and adding another negative may make it pretty...meh. I don't really care though since I don't use any obsession perk. Would be really nice to have a perk that decreases your chances of being the obsession from the start of the game, as a matter of fact XD
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@HeroLives said:
DexyIV said:You can counter it by just not tunneling. It's easy lol
Lololol a person can dream, but that’s not going to happen 😅
If a lot of people start running it, and killers keep getting punished for mindlessly tunneling, then it'll eventually become the norm to not waste their time doing so and pressuring other survivors.
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@DarkGGhost said:
@DexyIV said:
You can counter it by just not tunneling. It's easy lolIn other words give them free escape and force the kille to play a way he/she may don't want
Tunneling harms you in the long run. Killers that tunnel are the ones to harm themselves by doing this, yet complain about genrushing because they have no idea how to pressure survivors off gens.
Adapt. Blood Warden helps against the free escapes. Blood Warden NOED is pretty strong. If you don't like NOED like me, then Rancor can synergize pretty well with it as well, and the new DS may make the perk more worthwhile. -
No, the obsession mechanic is perfectly fine the way it is. The only change it needs is how new DS interacts with Dying Light. Some obsession perks are plenty powerful enough already, it doesn't need more power added now that DS isn't a broken tier perk.
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Another NOED post. Yes, yes, break all the totems, we get it.
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It would probably just be a bunch of rank 1 players then if that's the case. All the people getting away from the tryhardiness and sweat of red ranks will go to this mode, which will soil the main purpose of it
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Would kinda kill the whole terror radius effect builds for doc and stuff though lol
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Yeah but these posts just bait people into complaining, and there's always one up in these forums. Yet people wonder why no one takes posts on this site seriously XD
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@HeHeBoii said:
So if its "Bait" you care enough to toss your two cents and add on to the "Toxicity" let me stop before I struct a nerve on one of the mods. Cough Cough Mandy Cough.
Woah, that sounds like a threat to make a threat. How productive
And yea that's what these posts are. Everyone on these forums have had their weekly discussion about NOED and how op/not op it is. Same arguments, same rebuttals, nothing gets accomplished. They even mentioned in the DS changes post that NOED will not be changed. It's just bait at this point. -
There's been a lot of threads about this. Might have been a better idea to comment on one of those instead.
Regardless, I think it's good. Gave a perk with no counterplay some counterplay.
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New DS
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It's already being nerfed with clear counters. There are other ways to play around it already.
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It's been a problem for a while. I wouldn't hold your breath.
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No, and I'm glad I wasn't around for it
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Dying Light will need changes for this, yeah. Otherwise the change is good. Killers will just have to adapt and learn strategies to counter it.
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That's the way it should be
The second part is to not waste time
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You can counter it by just not tunneling. It's easy lol
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@Sinner said:
Gen rush nerfThe solution to this was available to killers the whole time. It's not really a nerf to genrushing. Gens still get done fast even with this change. It just forces killers to learn the concept of pressuring survivors off of gens so they can't do them as fast.
End game survivor buff
This will lead to some frustrations, yes. You can run Blood Warden and NOED to down the unhooker, then you can pick up the DS user without worry of them running out the gate. Not a perfect counter, but they do exist.
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I swear these posts are just bait to get people riled up at this point. I see one of these posts at least once a week
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Yeah I agree. It's probably about time they gave it different requirements.
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If you have NM, they probably won't bother slugging you lol
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If only. It will always be my least favorite realm.
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@Nea_Death_Experience said:
@DexyIV I'm not saying that a change didn't need to happen but it doesn't feel like this is a fix to the overall game, this is a slight change to one thing debuffing survivors rather than fixing maps and fixing killers. This is a superficial fix.Why? DS has been a problem for years now, and they're finally making it not so much of a problem. The change also discourages tunneling since there's no way to know who has it and who doesn't before it's too late now. This change was definitely needed. Just because they made this change, doesn't mean they won't address other problems in the next patch or in future patches. That's a ridiculous thought.
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It's not garbage, it was given a niche. Just because it isn't your all-powerful get out of jail free card doesn't mean it's bad. It brings it down to other perks that are actually balanced because they have counterplay and downsides. DS had none of those. Now it does.
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@Eveline said:
Moris available only after second hookI hate moris as much as the next guy, but what would be the point of them if this were applied?
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The game playerbase has only grown over time. Check SteamDB charts. Don't let these forum players tell you that it's dying just because they're growing bored of it.
Survivors will just have to adapt. This change needed to be a thing, and it's a good change. Let it play out.
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For a perk that's clearly overpowered to get the nerf it's deserved for such a long time? Doubt it. Only the special survivors that used it are getting all worked up about this change.
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@fcc2014 said:
I actually hope we see the counter play im expecting from survivors during the ptb.And what would that be?
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@Master said:
@DexyIV said:
Killers tunnel. This is a way to counter it. DS needs a weakspot and a niche instead of a get out of jail free card. This also motivates killers to not tunnel because then survivors will actually be able to use their DS if they do. It's a win win.Thats debatable.
I can only speak for myself, but I will slugg a lot more if the DS change goes life in its current formIt's still designed to counter tunneling even if you do slug. Slugging is a counter to this change. The fact it forces you to slug under the assumption that someone has it just emphasizes my point that it's meant to combat tunneling.
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I feel like it'll make it in.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
@DexyIV said:
@ASurvkillivorer said:
Ask here as well as anywhere.So if you get unhooked and you now have 60 seconds to use D strike. What if the killer just tunnels you and waits to pick you up?
Then you don't get to use it. It has a counter now!
But it no longer has an indication? So in a way it could be a better perk to use as a group now? IDK....
Using it in groups isn't any different. You couldn't tell if more than one person had it. The only difference now is you can't tell if one person uses it. Thing is though, you can avoid the effects of it by simply not tunneling one survivor.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
Ask here as well as anywhere.So if you get unhooked and you now have 60 seconds to use D strike. What if the killer just tunnels you and waits to pick you up?
Then you don't get to use it. It has a counter now!