Deathstroke
Deathstroke
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105186#Comment_3105186
Don't get me wrong, I've seen his newest vid about nurse, I do agree with him in some points: range addons are disgusting, some perks on her disgusting. But reworking her ability, no thank you.
Make her blinks as a special attack and rework her range addons. Thats it, thats my opinion.
Remove the disgusting part about nurse.
Excuse me... Oni blood fury is harder than nurse blinks? So you played nurse and thinks her ability is easier than blood fury?=)
Well, I respect your opinion.=) Thats all I gotta say.
On console oni does not turn as fast as on pc so he requires to be very accurate with nurse I can bit miss blink but I still get the hit as her lunge is insane and if I miss my first blink I always have second blink. Other example is blight his power is arguably games hardest but you can always play 115% m1 with him so he is not as punishing.
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@Dustin said:
To be honest the main thing I've considered over the years if Nurse would get reworked is how would you normalize her as a 110 killer and keep her blinks. Otz made a video recently and I'd actually agree with putting it on a power gauge as an option - However I feel she'd need a secondary power or a much weaker version of her power before the power gauge is filled up.
Personally a way I'd nerf the blinks specifically is add the requirement that she must blink through a wall to blink before her ability is fully ready - Basically a variant of Blight. She has to line of sight herself to use her power up until she's given full reign with a fully charged blink when the power gauge is used. Possibly just giving her heavily restricted blinks and then a secondary ability to activate her power as is for a full minute.
Also - I've primarily played Nurse since 2016 with no addons - Most of you saying she's fine don't play her. I love Nurse but in my view she's holding the game back. We actually just got a baseline buff for all killers which was long overdue. Some killers who haven't been viable for years are suddenly becoming playable. Yet Nurse isn't brought down with these changes so she indirectly received buffs she didn't need and with each perk that's added she continues to have more options that likely force BHVR (Speculation) to keep some perks toned down. If Nurse was reworked it would open the doors to have more deadly perks. It's just the idea that we can't have certain perks simply because Nurse would be too good with them is an issue.
A few years ago I would have said she's okay yeah - Game has evolved enough to where she's gotten a bit out of control
I would make her start as 115% m1 killer but then how would she earn her power would it be injuring people like oni or something else entirely. But I think her power should be bit easier to get than oni as it's not instadown or maybe be twice as long.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105145#Comment_3105145
I don't think you should listen much of what others "thinks" about stuff, that you can check yourself.
Oni blood fury and pinhead chains requires more skill. I played nurse and she is easier to use than those 2 skills. Nurse is not punished enough missing blinks. I play on console so I imagine nurse is much easier on pc. Otzdarva is basically dbd expert so yeah people should listen his opinion.
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@INoLuv said:
Nurse is good as she is, a killer that does not need nerf because is hard enough. A power rework could be a buff to her, adding flannel as basekit. Nurse demands skill against good survivors, she is good as she is.
That hard argument is weak one watch otzdarva video on nurse. Many other killers are harder and require lot more skill and map knowledge.
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@Kees_T said:
Since she is the only Killer that people play differently as Killer, I think Survivors should also play different against her.
For example, the gameplay flow of other Killers are like, you take one hit and get injured, you get one more and go down. This should be changed for Nurse since she is also played differently.
Imagine her attacks dealing 0.5 damage, so you need 2 hits to equal one health state. The first hit don't trigger damage so the Survivor won't get a speedboost. Exposed Survivors will take 1 hit like before since it means double damage. It's a crazy idea and would be a huge nerf to her.
Or maybe her first blink will do normal damage, but her second will only do half damage.
There's a lot of ways to rework her, but I really don't want her special power to blink to be removed, it's a fun mechanic.
That could be tried but I would change her like oni start as m1 killer and earn her power. Oni's power is not even as strong as nurse and still it's so limited.
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@Wewantjason said:
Tunneling as killer is a viable strategy point blank. Its risk and reward because you can lose all your gens doing it. You are baiting the team to be altruistic. Period
Gen rushing isn't even a thing. Survivors ONLY objective to escape is do gens. period.
Either side complaining about either thing is absolutely entitled and does not understand how the other side works. period.
I love this game and play and win both sides. People need to learn the new meta. Point blank. It took me a good chunk of games and all my builds on every character I play is different from pre patch and my win rates have actually sky rocketed on both sides
frankly the only time i lose now is as survivor when teammates throw or dc.
This game definitely has an us vs them mentality
Dirty stragedy but not that risky anymore works 99% of time no-one uses ds and survivors usually throw game trying to help when you tunnel and facecamp one. My last bubba games has lasted 2-4 mins using these fair stragedies.
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@AnnoyingNarrator said:
After this patch, I feel like the rise in Us Vs. Them has become rather prevalent. This patch is quite unusual because it favors killers, something that has not really happened in along time. Not only does it favor killers, it favors them a lot with a series of changes that make playing killer less painful.
However, this patch also revealed a simple fact about most players; they have no idea how the other side works at all.
You have survivors who are horrifed at the mere idea of being tunneled in endgame, and killers who have to bring the strongest perks on the strongest killers and slug everyone because they might get gen rushed.
It should be noted that the survivor has no clue what tunneling actually is and the same goes for the killer and gen rushing.
While the latest batch does have its problems (75% grind reduction is a lie, Blood point Bonuses, Botany Buff, Self Care), it does have some good changes.
Disabling DS and Off the Record in the endgame makes sense because the only way to counter these perks was to tunnel or camp.
Making Corrupt Intervention deactivate on downing a survivor is a great way to balance the perk.
A lot of perks that were limited in effectivness like Hope, Surge, Overcharge, and Inner Focus got changes to them that make them more worthwhile to use.
At the end of the day, remember that there is no reward for High MMR. Just take a breather and focus on having fun, not just sweating every match.
The grind was heavely increased this patch yeah you get perks easier but the actual grind is much bigger and it is much harder to get good add ons as killer and good items as survivor.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104874#Comment_3104874
I'm not sure how that connects to what I'm saying here. Could you elaborate?
Well tunneling is usually not fun as survivor and killer facecamping is not either and that is more common tactic now. Survivlr can be fun if killer plays fairly. Killer definetely is more fun to play dh not robbing your hits anymore and it's more easier to win.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3098768#Comment_3098768
I've been playing far more survivor in this update and I would consider it a pretty solid success from that perspective too.
Your opinion quite genuinely isn't fact here, it's not objectively a disaster. A lot of people are having fun too.
Then im surpriced killers tunnel and camp now almost every game which is understandable after BBQ nerf.
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@HungrySnek said:
I know what kind of comments I will get and I don't care, I wanna talk about this because this game is important to me.
Survivors are ruining the game. Of course not everyone but most of them. I have a few examples but I will start with the biggest one.
The 6.1.0 Update is out since a few days and...survivors are losing there crap over everthing. Constantly crying here over the changes or killing themselves in game/dc the moment something happens they don't like.
I have to say that there are two real problems right now in the game that have to be adressed. Nurse and slow down combos
But other then that is the game in a healthy state like never before. Killers got the buff they needed and finally is the meta different. But here comes the problem. Entilted survivors who don't give themselves time to adjust and instead become childish and toxic towards others.
"Killers are now too op!"
"They win every round with a 4k!"
And similar sentences over and over again. And the thing is...of course are killers now stronger...but it's not there fault that you are bad. It shows that a few survivors are not able to win without dead hard, dstrike and the other meta crap from before. But instead of trying to learn new perks or learn to loop without needing to press E they go the childish Route and try to force the devs to revert the changes with disconnects and crying posts here and every where else.
I am not a killer Main, actually I am really bad as killer and even now with the update I'm still losing games like before. I play survivor in the morning and in the evening killer. I am not a expert in this game with 50k hours but I have spend my hours in this game and this Update is a step in the right direction so please devs Show that you don't go back because some babies lost there op things.
Survivors has real complains about this update both camping and tunneling got huge buffs and using them means you win 90% of time. Ofcourse if you're very bad you could lose. Survivors definetely throw some games but that usually because the skill gap can be too big between killer player and survivor players. I just played match with bubba in game map and 3 survivors were in toilet room fixing gen and I downed them all with one chainsaw (had iri add on.) Then last survivor came to me and showed to down her too. This game lasted what 2-3 mins.
Quite opposite is decent swf who fix gens quickly and can loop well those games you still have to work for 3-4K. But if you tunnel and camp in these games most of times you win even if they're more skilled than you. But what I notice when I lose it's because I made mistakes maybe I didn't tunnel one out thinking I can win going for 2 hooks before finishing one off. Almost every game is winnable for killer but it means you have to play bit dirty too.
Ds was bad nerf for survivors it's encourages killers to tunnel one quickly out and even if you have ds now it does not give enough time to make it to safe loop and killer can easily catch you. 10s gen time increase and BBQ nerf makes it worth to just facecamp survivor on hook. I don't see reason why ds or otr disables at endgame. At that point survivor deserve to have chance to escape. If you want to tunnel survivor in less than 2 minutes out of games pick up ph and make survivor you go after torment himself then when you down him put him on hook and facecamp second hook for him and after he is saved count to 5 and down again then kill him with final judgement.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104441#Comment_3104441
Could probably work aswell
For now they should try first the 10s increase. It should be enough in most cases to turn the game in survivors favour. Currently facecamping is bit too viable. I would remove healthy survivor hooks graps as well.
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@JakeParkSimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104085#Comment_3104085
"Nurse needs to be nerfed first"
Why can't we have both?
Nurse is game breaking whereas oni is not in fact oni could use few buffs.
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@JakeParkSimp said:
IMO he should get the clown treatment, because from what I've seen, it's getting pretty close to broken levels of overpowered. And of course people abuse it if they happen to know about it.
He is still weaker than blight and nurse so he is fine. Nurse need to be nerfed first then maybe they should look at oni.
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@PaintedDeath said:
This should be your baseline build to escape trials.
Bond, Saboteur, Kindred, Off the Record.
This is pure information, everything you need to avoid the killer, make plays and get out alive (at least survive to end game)
Saboteur looks like a strange addition but it gives you a lot of information, such as whether the killer is running Scourge Hooks. If they are not, then it tells you round about where the killer and the survivor they are carrying is. If you get a chance to sabo a scourge hook, take it, but don't go looking for it unless...
With bond you see the survivor getting chased and they are coming right to you. In this case you know to hide, and if they go down near you, and you can see an easy hook sabo opportunity, then take it. Otherwise, play to get out (which saboing a scourge hook does)
Kindred doesn't need an explanation.
Off The Record gives you anti-aura reading, 100% Noise reduction and Endurance should they try to tunnel.
If you claim to be having trouble in matches, give this a shot and I guarantee you will be receiving at the very least, silvers in all areas, and it will get you to at least end game.
I don't think you will reach endgame when you don't have any exhaustion perk in this build. Killers always try to tunnel one who does not have one as they're easy to get out.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
I hate to be that guy, but as a killer main... why wouldn't we camp? So what if there are 5 gens? Maybe you're hooked at a really good three gen that I want to keep.
Before, everyone had a perk such as BBQ which meant we were encouraged to go hook everyone once. We had a motive to be more proactive, making the experience more engaging for everyone. This is one of the main reasons why everyone scoffed at the idea of a BBQ nerf before; it was a counterable perk that encouraged a healthy and engaging playstyle.
This motive is gone. There are other info perks and such, but nothing is going to fill the void of earning those stacks to get more BP, which helps on a meta-level. As such, slowdown perks such as Deadlock are prioritized, and people go back to trying to win. MMR exists, people like to climb the MMR ladder, and they'll play a bit dirty. It's a matter of the optimal play.
You can't expect people that want to win to play nice. You need to give them a reason.
Killer mains usually enjoy going for chases, camping is pretty boring but if it was way to bring BBQ bonus back I would do it every game. But that's not gonna happen unfortunately. But anyway even if you camped you could still get all BBQ stacks... I bring cakes in my killer games for now so that's my bandaid fix for the problem but when there is zero cakes I want the game just to be quickly over. Usually I play nice cause I play survivor too so I don't tunnel or camp one out at 5 gens unless I have bad game.
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@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101559#Comment_3101559
Without a ping system or voice chat it often is unfortunately. I think adding one or both of those to the game would help out a lot. I"m still in favor of the killer buffs, but I've certainly come around to seeing the soloQ side of things.
Basekit kindred for soloQ would help and basekit BBQ for killer to encourage going for chases.
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@I_CAME said:
All I can say is I can't believe people were seriously trying to claim that sprint burst is even remotely as powerful as old dead hard.
Sprint burst gives always value and you just have to know when to use it. But old dh was better because you could activate it on command so it was easier to use and made possible to be more greedy at loops. Old dh also gave immortality so the distance was not only problem of it. But still lot of times killer could bait it out so it didn't always give value.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101558#Comment_3101558
That's just not true. With gens being 90 seconds now, camping even got buffed. The first down is crucial, but if you can get a down fast enough, you have pretty much a guaranteed kill. And that means you will be getting at least 2 kills with very little effort, if you don't suck at killer that is.
However, killers can throw on Deadlock and NOED, and pretty much guarantee a 3K. Especially if you pick a killer like Leatherface as well. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Im going to try this built on bubba I usually only use built which allows me to carry survivors very far away into the basement.
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@ImNotBobDylan said:
INTRO
I'm a 300 hour player (mostly survivor). Since I cannot play solo queue anymore without becoming insane, I decided I would wait for next patch, but meanwhile I've started to play killer on a fresh account, and experimenting what it would look like if I try as hard as I can to be a d*** (mostly by facecamping and tunneling the same player).
Admittedly because it's a fresh account I started with low MMR - I didn't really want to ruin the reputation of my main account just to prove a point - but I don't have a lot of experience with killer so it should not be too far from my "skill" if I were to play normally. However, you will see that skill is not really the point here.
Now let's make it short, I have played 18 games so far, and every single game has had exactly 0 ESCAPE from survivors. In fact, survivors never even managed to complete the last gen, so it was not very close, although they went down to 1 gen several times.
So, that's a 18 win streak - and judging by my last games, there's no sign that it's ending soon. By the way, I'm no small man like Otzdarva, a win for me means ALL SURVIVORS DIE - NOT EVEN HATCH. Of course it's a d*** challenge so I feel like giving hatch would be unappropriate.
Since people will legitimately doubt my claims, I have recorded videos of most of these matches, but I'll make a short summary for each game so you don't have to watch it, and if you're used to solo queue, I'm sure lots of these games will look familiar.
Note: if someone can tell me how to check my kill/escape ratio (which should be at 100%) that would be great, so I can share the proof that there was no other match between them where I could have lost.
LINK TO VIDEOS
I uploaded everything on Youtube, but for your convenience as said I have a "breakdown" section below where I will sum them up.
Fellow survivor mains, I know it is disgusting, but I HIGHLY encourage you to watch some of these games. Check the BREAKDOWN section.
STRATEGY / BUILD
Simple gameplay, here are the main ideas:
Step 1: patrol gens and try to find a survivor quickly. This is the most critical step. Be sneaky, don't waste time in loops, switch target if needed.
Step 2: facecamp the survivor until they die (be patient)
Step 3: if other survivors manage to unhook, keep tunneling the same survivor, wait 5-10 sec to bait endurance. When survivors attempt to unhook, avoid hitting them as experienced survivors will try to bait you, ideally, try to grab them while they unhook.
Step 4 (optional): once 1 survivor is dead it's pretty easy to finish the game usually, but if you want to guarantee 4K, camp the 3 gens that are closest to each other, injure survivors so they all make noise, exploit their altruism so you can get them all down, only hook them AFTER they are all down, so they can't get the hatch.
VIDEO EXAMPLE 1 FOR THE "FACECAMP" STEP (from game 2)
VIDEO EXAMPLE 2 FOR THE "TUNNELING" STEP (from game 9)
I also have some particularly obnoxious games that demonstrate the "exploit altruism" step but since this is optional and particularly toxic let's skip that part.
BREAKDOWN
Here is a summary of each game, with a video link (time stamped directly to the most interesting part).
First game of the show, good to demonstrate the strategy. Started with Trapper as I thought he would be a good facecamper. Found Claudette quickly then stayed right in front of the hook . Nobody went to help her, so she DC'd after about 1 minute (5 gens left) leaving the game 3v1, her teammates were not fast enough with gens and it was relatively easy to finish.
Result: 4 kills, 1 gen left
A slightly better fight from survivors, showing that some are used to facecamping killers. Note that I have now switched to Nurse to increase the chance of DCs (this is my first game with Nurse - hope that it's obvious from the gameplay). I started to facecamp Leon but this time his team managed to distract me away from the hook, regardless I ended up getting a grab on the person who attempted to unhook and win easily.
Result: 4 kills, 5 gens left
Another very altruistic lobby, survivors try very hard to prevent me from tunneling David and even manage to successfully make me lose him, so I hook and camp Feng instead. Survivors try to save her too but this time I manage to down all of them.
Quite a sad game to be honest as I missed almost every blink and yet the whole game still ends in 5 minutes because survivors were too altruistic.
Result: 4 kills, 3 gens left
Not a very interesting game. I camp David, survivors make quick attempts at saving him but soon give up. David dies at 4 gens (!!). From there the game is easy to finish (although it takes me 7 more minutes to find the remaining survivors).
Result: 4 kills, 2 gens left
A very sad game as survivors really try to save their teammate but end up losing everything for it. Very touching survivors and merciless game from me, do not watch if you're faint-hearted. On a side note, I think this game illustrates well how disgusting you can play if you want to deny survivors the hatch: the game is clearly over after 3 min 30 s, yet it still takes me 15 more minutes to finish the last 3 survivors and ensure no one gets the hatch.
Result: 4 kills, 1 gen left
- Game 6: https://youtu.be/3zdffOIFdS8
Very poor game from both sides, not much to say about it. Bad SWF, bad gameplay from me (Note: following the previous game, I equipped Whispers to have a easier time finding the remaining 3 survivors - I will later switch to "Spies from the Shadows")
Result: 4 kills, 3 gens left
- Game 7: https://youtu.be/KVfalvEuHvQ?t=7
Another sad game. Hooked Nea right after start, someone DC's 30 seconds later, leaving everybody else hopeless. Survivors acted so cute that I considered letting them win and cancelling the game but eh, he DC'd after the hook so it's not really my fault, and I don't feel like that's what the majority of killers do when playing against me, so no mercy.
Result: 4 kills, 5 gens left
Best survivors I've faced so far, now the MMR finally went a bit up. This is a very telling game, worth watching as a whole (Warning: it is also very triggering, if you're a survivor main)
Here I found Cheryl quickly, but she was clearly a good player, so I gave up the chase and went for her teammates instead. I started to tunnel Kate, but only after a long chase, and by the time I hooked her for the first time there were only 2 gens remaining. From there it should be a loss for me, but as usual solo queuers try too hard to save their teammates and end up losing their advantage. Kate dies while Nancy attempts hoplessly to save her. By the time I hook Nancy still 2 gens remain. Nancy gets saved while I get greedy and damage a nearby gen, gives a fight and has DS which makes me lose time, but still not enough for her teammates to finish the remaining gens.
Result: 4 kills, 1 gen left
A rather easy game. Got Ash quickly, but his team tried hard to save him, bodyblocking, tanking hits etc. I could still tunnel him and get the other survivors shortly after.
Result: 4 kills, 4 gens left
- Game 10: https://youtu.be/fpAeqoe6C20?t=160
Another sad game. Clearly low MMR survivors, game was already over after 3 minutes when I grabbed the person who tried to unhook.
Result: 4 kills, 3 gens left
- Game 11: https://youtu.be/_siSwVFuDaw?t=241
Now this is the first truly heartbreaking game. Likely a SWF stack as these girls played very altruistic and 2 of them had the exact same skin, one Claudette even tried to disguise as the other so I would hook her instead when they were all down. Everybody tried to save the tunneled survivor but did not manage.
Result: 4 kills, 2 gens left
- Game 12: https://youtu.be/4QIOAuqHcys?t=55
Low MMR survivors, caught Claudette in 1 minute, very easy game, except for one thing: I tried to end the match too quickly at the end and almost gave Cheryl a chance to get hatch, this could have ended the streak.
Result: 4 kills, 3 gens left
- Game 13: https://youtu.be/lFNeHigQ_q8?t=73
Regular tunneling game, caught Mikaela, camped her, teammates ended up being grabbed while saving her.
Result: 4 kills, 2 gens left
Absolutely heartbreaking game. Tunneled Claudette but Nea managed to skillfully bait me and unhook her without getting grabbed (which shows just how often solo queue players have to face it). Claudette rage quitted, seeing what happened, survivors gave up and/or tried to act cute.
Conclusion
I humbly ask you, DbD game developers, to do me a favor and watch some of these games, especially game 14, and tell me if that matches your vision of how the game should be played, because actually, it matches what I've been getting lately as a solo queue survivor.
I trust that you have data that shows that the game is not killer-sided so I will refrain from debating balance, in fact I don't doubt that SWFs and/or the combination of old DS/BT/DH was too strong in some circumstances.
However, what seems clear to me, is that:
- The game may be not killer-sided, or survivor-sided, but it is definitely tryhard-sided. I think this echoes what Otzdarva said in a video: "DBD is extremely survivor-sided ?". Basically, your game can be fun under the assumption that people will play nice, but the rules and balance of the game do not prevent you to be extremely toxic. For example, camping a hooked survivor is seen as a d* move by most of the community, and yet managing to land a grab on someone who tries to unhook was multiple times a game-winning move for me.
- The game is full of anti-fun mechanics for survivors: very long gens that people don't want to do, one shot mechanics like NOED or grabbing a survivor who attempts to unhook, having to rely on killer's kindness to get hatch, survivor having to wait 4 minutes on ground if killer doesn't want to pick them up (hatch again), etc. Killers do not have to face such mechanics, and most importantly, do not rely on 3 random teammates to play the game.
- MMR doesn't work. I've played many PvP games, it seems unconceivable to me to get a 18 win streak against human players. Just think of it. 18 games x 4 kills each = 72 survivors dead. That's a LOT of people time wasted so that just one guy can have fun (me).
So, I don't know if I will continue playing and see if I can achieve longer streak, but ultimately, what has made me stop playing for now, is not toxic survivors, Dead Hard, DS, it is not gen rushing nor SWFs, ultimately the thing that makes me stop playing is just how heartbreaking some of the games must have been for survivors. If you've been in one of these games I hope you understand and wish you a nice day.
Nah your small man not giving hatch.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
If the killer isn't Otzdarva, why aren't you Ayrun or JRM? Why the skill issue for survivors?
Im not otzdarva but before patch I had no problem winning most my games 3-4K for me was normal game but before patch it was pretty common to get 1-2K games as well.
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@EntitySpawn said:
I'm getting quite tired of seeing people complain about this patch or already wanting nerfs.
The biggest issue atm is tunneling (no surprise as no one runs DS) but this is the biggest issue that needs a double incentive for killers (punish those who tunnel, reward those who dont)
Everything else in the patch was fine an barely made any difference to the game when people actually play.
The biggest changes in this patch was DH and gen time (even though they nerfed all the good regression perks).
And believe it or not, alot of people got carried by DH... even if you didnt use the perk yourself you would of had teammates that did extending multiple chases throughout the match making it easier for your team to escape/gain mmr.
Alot of people would of been carried into an mmr they didnt belong whether through the use of DH, others using DH or even just being placed on a good team.
This update will punish those players who are in a higher mmr than they belong or punish those people who arent efficient or pushing gens at the level needed for that mmr.
Give it time and keep trying, you'll settle into a new mmr bracket for your skill and efficiency. My games have massively improved as times gone on, I get less and less rage quits and people throwing and now I'm back to the usual 5min games.
SUMMARY: GIVE THE UPDATE TIME, Your mmr will adjust to where you actually belong (in terms of chases & efficiency) this patch is pushing for survivors having to all contribute and try in the game, you cant have 1 person never do a gen or a chase and still win, the games a 4v1 not a 3v1.
Big problem for me is how bad my teammates usually are. I played game with decent teammates and we got 4 man out but usually I get teammates who don't know what to do. My last 2 match ended killer up by killer slugging everyone first he tunneled one out and then slugged remaining 3. The last of these matches was agains't nurse which I ran long times but she found out team weak link and tunneled her quickly out. We got last gen to 98% done and then the nurse slugged us.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
It's not dead unless they leave it like that for months, it's fine if they revert either generators to 80s or the speed boost/attack cooldown/bloodlust buffs, one of these is ok both are too much, and revert DS too
They're only too much because most survivors don't know how to play. High mmr survivors still escape most of the time and only nurse and blight are problem for them. Nurse should be nerfed but other killers just no. Blight add ons only needs to be looked at. Tunneling and camping is the real problem that is were the buffs help. I would make ds basekit with 3s stun and no skill check. Ds perk would make the stun back to 5s. Well I think basekit bt is fine with 5s as you can always bring otr and both otr and ds should work in endgame in my opinion. SoloQ also should have basekit kindred. But with these changes I think killers need more buffs and for starters basekit corrupt and BBQ would be good.
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@Jasonisanicefella said:
Oh gosh, another day where I got my butt kicked 6 times out of 6.
I am giving up for today.
- STBFL is very insane when used for camping
- Gens are too slow, and boring when paired with the slowdown meta
- Chases are too short
- And finally, the grind is still terrible. Maybe slightly improved, but still too much for a paid game
Can we get an official statement? are the devs happy with the situation, or is something being done soon?
I am alright both ways but I would like to know to decide whether to give up on DBD or not
I had pretty fine games I survived 2 out of 3 games. First game I got tunneled out when we got 2 gens done I managed to give my team enough time to do 2 gens and they got last gen over 70% but killer managed to regress it entirely so I didn't watch what happened after but killer probably won but it was not too bad. In my second game everyone got out it was bit too easy and in my last game there was try hard blight and we had bad start but we recovered and did all gens. Unfortunately he managed to kill all my teammates in the end and pushed me out. But I think 2-3 of us could survived my teammates wanted to save too much and the blight played well.
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@RockyRocker936 said:
According to the devs, the grind would be reduced by 75%. I assumed that meant that instead of the usual 1 million it costed to prestige a character, it would instead cost 250k. Yet I just tried to prestige my Zarina with the 1.2 million bloodpoints I had saved up and it only got me to level 44.
Am I slow haha?
And now no BBQ bp bonus so that increase the grind by half alone.
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@ZVom said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3099495#Comment_3099495
since BBQ bonus is gone - I stopped caring about BP as I have to play more games than I could count to get p0->p3 on a characted. No, no - thanks. I'll stick to camping until grind is reduced.
I use cakes almost always so I get double bp so I don't facecamp but I usually go back to hook if I don't find anyone. Debends on situation if I have bit bad game before then I usually tunnel one out. BBQ bonus removal was terrible change it encourages tunneling and camping. I agree grind is too big.
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@ZVom said:
As all of us can see - tunneling and camping is a lot more popular and rewarding since last patch. Killers lost main incentive not to camp (BBQ bonus) and did not get anything in return. As a killer main (I played less than 5% of my game time as survivor) I really feel like camping is more rewarding for killer now and as BBQ is gone, I have no reason not to do so (sorry but I'm being completely honest. I know it's a bit annoying for survivors so maybe we can introduce some kind of bonus for camped survivors so it's not that badly annoying for them - 25bp in each category (sums to 100bp) for each second killer is within 15 meter to hooked survivor.
I feel like it would make survivors less annoyed when hooked and camped.
Camping gets you 10-20K bp and chasing gives 30-40K so is it worth to camp based on bp? No but is it most viable stragedy to win? Yes.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3098650#Comment_3098650
The new spine chill is amazing for telling you immediately if you are running away from the killer or accidentally towards them. Im a baby survivor but that thing just carries me.
New spine chill is just stupid they made it to counter steath killers when they were the ones suffering from it the most.
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@tendyhands said:
Anytime you do a 3+ gen chase you always get camped after. Should you just go down after 2 gens are done?
That could result in facecamping as well so I would not recomend and killer loses that game if he facecamps you and your team can just do gens and attemp save if it's not bubba. I would love killer to facecamp me after that chase but unfortunately when I had 4 gen chase the killer camped the 3 gen area with every slow down perk and my teammates went down in 10s so we ended up losing. So be happy that the killer throws the games facecamping you.
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@Akumakaji said:
Pretty cool! Thanks for your effort!
Dayum, Oni is massive, but Nemesis is such a unit! And ma boi Pyramid Head is just the tallest of them all, I love him :>
Pinhead is also pretty tall, I think, and you can often see his white, bald head poking over every loop :P
Well pyramid head has that helmet so for me he does not count tallest as it's not top of his head. Nemesis is clearly tallest bit shame oni is not that tall as he was showed to be so big in trailer.
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@Reinami said:
Warning, lots of math ahead for a TLDR see the bottom of the post.
So, before the last big update, one of the common ways for good survivors to play, was to just hold w to gain as much distance as possible against the killer, and then just drop every pallet almost immediately without really doing much in the way of looping. Never taking a risk and just predropping everything and holding w. So a while back i did some math that showed how viable holding w would be. Here is how that math worked:
Let's pretend that killer power doesn't exist and that pallets and windows and looping do not exist. We do this to eliminate as many variables as possible to see if holding W is still viable. If the killer has a power, then the survivor's "power" is pallets, windows, and loops. So we take both of those away to see how powerful holding w is.
Keep in mind this section is the older numbers from before:
Some data:
Survivor movement speed: 4.0 m/s
Survivor post hit movement speed duration: 2 seconds
Survivor post hit movement speed: 6.0 m/s
Killer movement speed: 4.6 m/s
Killer movement speed while carrying survivor: 3.68 m/s
Killer Terror Radius: 32 meters
Killer hit cooldown: 3 seconds
Killer pick up speed: 3 seconds
Killer hook speed: 1.5 seconds
Generator repair speeds: 80 seconds
Average distance to hook: 12 meters
Average human response time: 273 ms (https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime)
Average map size: 9850 square meters (~99.25x99.25 meters for a square)
So, let's assume killers and survivors all spawn at opposite ends of the map. The survivors spend the first 20 seconds looking for a generator and the killer spends the first 20 seconds running to the opposite end of the map. With a killer having a 32 meter terror radius, and taking into account movement speeds and human reaction time. if we take the human reaction time and triple it to account for figuring out the direction the killer is coming from and making sure you can run the opposite direction, the survivor will spot the killer in 819 ms. To make math simpler let's round it up to 1 second. during this time the killer gets 4.6 meters closer. So now the killer is 27.4 meters away. During this time the survivor runs in the exact opposite direction of the killer.
Remember, no powers, no pallets, no windows, just a straight line. In order for the killer to catch up to the 5 meters (lunge is 6 meters but taking into account human reactions and lag and spinning and such, we say 5) required for lunge distance the killer needs to move 22.4 meters to close the gap. The difference in movement speed between them is .6, this means the killer closes the 22.4 meter gap in 37.333 seconds. The killer then lands a hit.
The survivor then runs in a straight line and the killer is unable to move much for 3 seconds. During 2 of those seconds the survivor is moving at 6 m/s and for 4 m/s for 1 second. This means the survivor gets 18 meters way. The killer now has to close a gap of 13 meters for a lunge. It takes the killer 21.66666 seconds to catch up to the survivor and land another hit.
The killer now picks the survivor up taking 6 seconds (3 seconds for picking up, and 3 seconds for attack cooldown), and they walk to the nearest hook about 12 meters away. This takes 3.25 seconds, the hooking action takes 1.5 seconds.
The time to find this survivor, hit them once, catch up, hit them again, pick them up walk to a hook and hook them took: 37.3333 + 21.66666 + 6 + 3.25 + 1.5 = 69.75 seconds. Even if the killer knew exactly where the next survivor was and ran to them immediately, they would lose 3 generators. During this time this action rinse and repeats, but instead of having 3 survivors on generators, you will only ever have 1, (1 will be being chased, 1 is on hook, 1 going for the save and 1 on gens). This means that the killer will on average get 3 hooks before the generators are done. Even when factoring in bloodlust, you only gain .2 m/s movement speed which results in you saving 1, maybe 2 seconds on the 1st hit.
This factors out killer power, pallets, looping. All it is, is running in a single straight line.
Now, let's do this same math, but with the new numbers:
With the new numbers:
Some data:
Survivor movement speed: 4.0 m/s
Survivor post hit movement speed duration: 1.8 seconds
Survivor post hit movement speed: 6.0 m/s
Killer movement speed: 4.6 m/s
Killer movement speed while carrying survivor: 3.68 m/s
Killer Terror Radius: 32 meters
Killer hit cooldown: 2.7 seconds
Killer pick up speed: 3 seconds
Killer hook speed: 1.5 seconds
Generator repair speeds: 90 seconds
Average distance to hook: 12 meters
Average human response time: 273 ms (https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime)
Average map size: 9850 square meters (~99.25x99.25 meters for a square)
So, let's assume killers and survivors all spawn at opposite ends of the map. The survivors spend the first 20 seconds looking for a generator and the killer spends the first 20 seconds running to the opposite end of the map. With a killer having a 32 meter terror radius, and taking into account movement speeds and human reaction time. if we take the human reaction time and triple it to account for figuring out the direction the killer is coming from and making sure you can run the opposite direction, the survivor will spot the killer in 819 ms. To make math simpler let's round it up to 1 second. during this time the killer gets 4.6 meters closer. So now the killer is 27.4 meters away. During this time the survivor runs in the exact opposite direction of the killer.
Remember, no powers, no pallets, no windows, just a straight line. In order for the killer to catch up to the 5 meters (lunge is 6 meters but taking into account human reactions and lag and spinning and such, we say 5) required for lunge distance the killer needs to move 22.4 meters to close the gap. The difference in movement speed between them is .6, this means the killer closes the 22.4 meter gap in 37.333 seconds. The killer then lands a hit.
The survivor then runs in a straight line and the killer is unable to move much for 2.7 seconds. During 1.8 of those seconds the survivor is moving at 6 m/s and for 4 m/s for .9 seconds. This means the survivor gets 14.4 meters way. The killer now has to close a gap of 9 meters for a lunge. It takes the killer 15 seconds to catch up to the survivor and land another hit.
The killer now picks the survivor up taking 5.7 seconds (3 seconds for picking up, and 2.7 seconds for attack cooldown), and they walk to the nearest hook about 12 meters away. This takes 3.25 seconds, the hooking action takes 1.5 seconds.
The time to find this survivor, hit them once, catch up, hit them again, pick them up walk to a hook and hook them took: 37.3333 + 15 + 5.7 + 3.25 + 1.5 = 62.7 seconds. This would mean the killer would likely lose 2 gens in the first chase. (just barely reaching the 3rd survivor before it finishes).
Notes:
I know people will say "but powers exist", yes, yes they do, but i eliminated as many variables as possible, we are just talking about running in straight lines right now. I know people will say, "but don't focus that survivor down, change targets and go back to patrolling gens". This is also true, but if the killer does this, the survivor being chased will start to heal (medkit/healing meta) and only takes 16 seconds to do so, while it takes the killer 37 seconds to land the first hit. This means that that survivor can be back on a gen by the time the killer lands their next hit.
TLDR:
Depending on the killer, holding shift + w and just predropping every pallet is likely still the best way to play unless you are going against a killer that specifically counters that such as nurse, spirit, or blight.
Your math does not calculate any variables. Almost no-one start to run away from killer until they see him meaning you usually get first hit very quickly and if they run straight and don't loop you down them in 10s roughly. Some of my first chases even last under 10s if the survivor get bit stuck on object front of him.
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I would like to see shapeshifter but it should be only the killer secondary ability as swf can easily counter it.
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@RinsDoormat said:
They won't do that, because they don't actually want people to get BP any faster. That would disrupt the precious 'economy'. Increasing the limit was just a red herring move to make it look like they're doing something, to head off all those pointing out the grind wasn't really meaningfully reduced.
It was increased almost by half based on alone that BBQ bp bonus was removed. Also now you have to get characters to level 100 to be done with the grind.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3098219#Comment_3098219
Not even close in my opinion. Usually I can screw around, get 8 hooks and let everyone go and still beat almost everyone in base BP earned. I can probably count on one hand the times I've 4k'd and a survivor still beat me in base BP.
They earn more if you farm. But anyway I was not talking about that in my opinion survivors earnings are pretty fine compared to killer it's possible to maximise every category and devs increased some earnings on survivor for this patch. But killers can't earn 10K in sacrifice category and that needs to be changed. One hook should be 700 bp and the caught bonus 300. And it's still hard to maximise other categories you have to slug a lot. So small increase on every earning should be done.
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@pseudechis said:
This is the eventual outcome of the changes.
Problem is you have an army of knee jerk tantrum throwers who DC, rage quit, refuse to adapt.
Once the MMR filters those players accordingly you'll find not a huge amount has changed other than a shift toward wider killer viability. Which is a good thing.
Bigges difference in my matches has been how extremely strong killer 3 gen situation has been. In one game I looped killer 4 gens but we lost when he camped 3 gen are with the all slowdown perks and my teammates went down quickly. In swf we would definetely won that match with ease as we would not allow that 3 gen situation to happen. Many other matches ended something like that so I just avoid soloQ for now.
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@amazing_grace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097965#Comment_3097965
You would be surprised by how many points you can get in a regular match. I was actually tracking my scores the other night and a lot of my matches I was escaping with over 30k bloodpoints, and this was without me running Prove thyself.
Once you are able to get a certain amount of skill at survivor, maxing out certain categories isn't too difficult to do on a regular basis.
They also upped the amount of bp you get from escaping. Instead of 5k you get 7k now, so that's kind of a huge difference. Just my opinion though.
You aren't supposed to be getting 40k points each match, you weren't getting 32k games before usually either. But now I'm usually getting at least an extra 2k bp that I would be missing out on before. That's the point of augmenting the categories, to get more points in the category you're forced to do.
I think survivor is pretty fine earning bp. But on killer to get over 35K bp you have to pretty much farm with survivors to do that.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3096737#Comment_3096737
It was for like a year or two and then they broke it when they switched from p2p to servers. (Exhausted on the ground etc.) They fixed it recently and now it's broken again. If killer is playing with high ping you have to use it before killer even thinks of hitting you.
You had to do this before on console even if killer had good internet.
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@SlowLoris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097065#Comment_3097065
I agree with this, but without validation you can time it perfectly and it acts as if the button was never pressed. This has been an issue with pallets, etc since they fixed Validation making lots of noises for incorrect downs on killer side. Having a perk that requires such a narrow window (which is great, mind you) is just painful without validation to know if you pressed it before the killer hit you. Right now this issue persists with pallets, where you will clearly go to drop the pallet, but it acts as if you never even touched it. This isn't a net issue, either. Many people I watch/play with rage at the pallets not dropping properly. You'll get there with plenty of time and could even be spamming the button, but it just pretends it never happened. This is how Dead Hard currently is. Some people don't have this issue as much, others have it almost every time. I just want to know that if I skillfully use my "parry" that it will be reliable.
Welcome on same boat with console I quess.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097898#Comment_3097898
Hell no. The "s tier" killers are the only thing that makes this game fun on survivor. I don't want all my killers to just be "lolz loop shack 3x drop pallet, repeat" Give me a nurse and blight to outthink. They have plenty of counter.
Also. I'm pretty sure the coding for gens is just a flat rate. Meaning the value to complete a gen is 90 seconds or 90 charges (I hope I got that right). I doubt BHVR would change the code just to make the first few gens 100 seconds......Why would the first couple of gens need to be 100 anyways ?
Well in your other post you say killer buffs were too strong but they are not. Only for Nurse and Blight they can be with dh and ds nerf and before the patch those killer were already very strong. Spirit I think is fine I played her and match was pretty balanced agains't higher mmr survivors. I got 3K and let last crawl out from gate they got 4 gens done I didn't use any slow down thought. For generator I thin 3 gen situation is too smeasy for killer to defend so last gen should be reverted back to 80s so first 2 gens should be 100s then to compensate.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097722#Comment_3097722
You hit the nail on the head. Its practically impossible to fix one part of this whole mess, ie camping and tunneling, without fixing the part thats more often (not always, as some players just wanna tilt others) then not responsible for this. The big maps are a big problem, and low mobility killers have no way to get accross bigger maps like Red Forest. What are they gonna do?
So some while ago we talked about Insidious in another thread and I came up with this idea, which I will copypasta over here in the hopes that someone at BHVR sees it and thinks "wow, lets give this a try".
Insidious - when there is no survivor in the killers terror radius and the killer is standing still for 8/7/6s the killer teleports to a shadowy corner within 24m of a random survivor. After the teleport his terror radius is surpressed for 4s. This effect can only aqctivate once every 120/100/80s. The perk deactivates once all generators are powered or if only one survivor is left in the trial.
This would obviously a total novelty in the game, but it would make Insidious a cool and useful perk that all M1 killers could use and not just basement Bubba. I think the game desperately needs some kind of map traversal ability for M1 killers, something that allows them to haul their butt around.
Another idea I got was a either a buff to BBQ or some BBQ light effect as basekit.
BBQ - the killer sees everyones aura as always and gains a +15% speed boost while outside of a chase and farther away then 20m from the highlighted survivors.
BBQ basekit - when hooking a survivor the killer sees the aura of the farthest away survivor who is a minimum of 24m away and gains a +15% speed boost while outside of a chase and farther away then 20m from the highlighted survivors.
This would give the killer an incentive to leave the hook, while also giving them the opportunity to traverse the map much quicker and pressure a gen they couldn't possible get to in time otherwise.
Well that teleport ability should be made as basekit. In friday 13th jason is able to teleport around map maybe something like that should be added. But that would kinda make sadako and dredge teleport abilities bit pointless?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337702/the-game-hasnt-changed-its-still-survivor-meta
I can agree with a FOV slider. Maybe even ruin. If you can't succed in the meta right now though. That's more of a YOU thing. Just as I tell survivors who say some things are too powerful when they're not. Keep practicing and get better.
This game is as killer sided as it gets right now. To the point some things need adjusted, and will be adjusted hopefully. That said...Yes some killers like onyro and trapper need some love.
Strongest killers should be now nerfed if anything and weakest buffed ofcourse. Dh and ds were only things countering the S tier killers. But all the killer buffs were needed even the gen time increase. Only thing I would change is to make first 2 gens last 100s and last gen 80s.
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@AarcvanDemen said:
Generators get slam dunked before you get to hit a survivor. Low tier killers like Trapper doesn't get the opportunity to sacrifice a survivor to the entity let alone hook them if they're SWF. Survivors can still escape regardless of the killer buffs. The killer buffs are so minor that it's unnoticeable. We need to buff killers across the board to turn them from trash tier to medium/high tier, so they can actually become a threat towards survivors.
Also, killers need a larger FoV. Make Shadowborn basekit. Revert Hex: Ruin nerf. It was completely unnecessary to nerf Hex: Ruin and it's a useless perk now.
Sounds more skill issue if you aren't able to get even one kill. It's easier to win as killer now than before but you still have to work for it agains't higher mmr survivors and game would obviously be very one sided if you would win everytime but 2K is usually always possible. Killer buffs are noticeable but they are not as big as some say but survivors best perks got nerfed so that buff killers as well. Tunneling and camping are more viable than ever so use them if you don't do that yet and if that does not work out camp 3 gen area and use pentimento, overcharge and call of brine/pop and deathman switch so win should be almost quaranteed.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3095671#Comment_3095671
I have absolutely no problems with the buffs killers received. I play killer, albeit very rarely, and have long held they needed to be buffed. My only problems lie in the speed on hit nerf, self-care nerf and the stun duration nerf to DS. Everything else is fine, though.
Speed nerf I think is not as big problem unless it's blight or nurse... But I like it as killer when they don't get as much distance.
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Have seen few one was new but our team died. I had chase with her in the end juking her 2 minutes until she eventually got me. Then had also good nurse using stratruck and she one shotted everyone with it. We were bit unlucky she downed kate in first 5s of the match who had no mither and we all spawned together so then she slugged everyone under 1 min.
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Feng, Yun jin lee, Nea
Claudette and kate would be my top5
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@AJStyIez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3095753#Comment_3095753
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/265PZTCDFY0W/own0v00-imgur.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OV3VV9SCRSA7/mwwtb3q-imgur.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KCR1AUQDUZJR/wow-so-hard.jpg
The first 2 are from the other night's stream against sweaty tunneling Blights (A Killer people claim has little counter-play after this update) and the 3rd pic is from 5 minutes before posting this comment. Its the first and only match of the day so far. I play aggressive and take chases with the new Dead Hard correctly. Survivor isn't hard if you're good and your teammates play decent
The difficulty of Killer matches depends on the skill of the Survivors and the difficulty of a Survivor match has more to do with the skill of your teammates than the skill of the Killer. A Killer can be better than someone 1v1 and still lose 1v4, so if you're one of those people that thinks Killer is super easy its probably a projection of how easy you or your teammates are to deal with. Should I post pictures from prestige 10 recharge/range nurses too or is this enough?
But you don't always get good teammates thought I will dodge lobbies usually now if survivors have below 6 prestigated character. It's sucide usually playing with survivors who has their character on 0 or 1. But my games killers has focused camping 3 gen are and without communucation we have unfortunately lost as it's much stronger than before. Even when I alone looped killer 4 gens as first chase. But then teammates went down in less than 10s...
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@Anti051 said:
In order for this to work, the game would need to be setup so the killer can commit to more than 2 chases against an efficient team before the whole thing is over. I understand that getting what you guys call "tunneled" doesn't feel fun, but in order to actually beat the top teams with the game in it's current state, you need to take every opportunity that presents itself or you just lose.
I'd also like to point out that there are two types of "tunneling," circumstantial and toxic:
Circumstantial tunneling is taking every opportunity that presents itself while defending generators/patrolling and should be understood in higher MMR lobbies by higher ranked players.
Toxic tunneling is literally ignoring every other aspect of the match just to smear somebody you don't like and is utterly despicable.
They are not the same thing.
In higher mmr but most killers tunnel in low and middle mmr at 5 gens. I don't usually tunnel even im in high mmr until 1 gen is left. That ends up me getting 1-3K. So I should tunneled at 5 gens thought... But agains't average or bad survivor tunneling is not needed to win they are easy to stomp on most killers. Some high mmr matched it's not needed as well if you dominate the game and play A or S tier killer. I thought I was gonna have hard game when I saw legacy skins but I pretty much ended up stomping them with executioner but I could not do that with trapper or wraith ever. As survivor when I get tunneled the reason is because I loop killer too long and he loses match while chasing me so I get hard tunneled after that for revenge. That is toxic and well tunneling really is only thing which makes me dc sometimes.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
Where's this "killer has become super easy" "every match can be 4k'd easily" thing coming from? So dbd has become killer sided overnight now? Sure playing killer is easy when survivors play dumb, don't do gens and give up on hook, like they now are. Talk about overreaction. The teams i'm going against (not swfs) are still slamming out gens and playing normally. You can just tell they are good survivors who have already adapted, while the ones that relied on second chance perks are throwing tantrums. I'm surviving just fine in solo queue, the only difference is i'm not expecting to survive almost every match like before. The only thing i'll agree with is that Blight and Nurse benefiting from this patch should be nerfed, apart from that it's all just survivor mains overreacting to get the patch reversed.
Killer camping in 3 gen situation has got much stronger thought so I lose most my games when there is 1 gen left it does not help when teammates waste time running around map too. So only change which should be made is to make last gen back to 80s. Maybe first 2 gens should be then make to 100s.
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@Mert_MK said:
Which are mainly Survivor players obviously.
I hope you stopped playing. Or else they won't really have an incentive to fix anything from this garbage update.
Survivor right now is pretty bad state esoecially soloQ if killer does not "play fairly". Many my games end when killer camps effectively 3 gen area. Well there is some blowouts as well too where killer gets everyone at 3-5 gens. It's real struggle to escape now. My killer games are not much better thought I get matched with 4 man swf and everyone is good looper they know to do gens. It's possible to beat them but I had to work for it. Feels this game is so unfair when I play survivlr killer gets it easy cause my teammates sucks but when I play killer I get these tournament teams.
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@xDrAwkwardx said:
Just a little background info on myself and my reason for posting:
I'm a process analyst, and I try to help organizations meet customer needs as efficiently as possible. I have played DBD with a relative amount of consistency for around a year now. When playing solo, I almost exclusively play killer. My favorite mode is Kill Your Friends, where my friends and I rotate as the killer role. I have 500 hours of gameplay, and have watched plenty of Youtube content which has helped me understand the game.
My reason for posting is because I understand the complaints of both killers and survivors when they express their frustrations with the game. It seems to me that, in large part, that killers and survivors discuss their game feedback either one-sidedly in their respective bubbles (killer players siding with killer players' complaints, rationalizing ways to call the complaints of survivors invalid or vise versa) or as a way to vocalize their perceived personal skill (an individual saying that they don't experience the same problem because they are simply more skilled). I, personally, don't see these discussions as constructive or helpful, other than for the catharsis and validation which may be the primary reason some people post in the first place. I want to share my personal observations on the game and its community, and have an honest discussion on some potential changes that could improve the experience of the community.
I feel the 2-Kill/2-Escape average model for balance is reasonable. The issue I take with it, is that it seems like the distribution is bimodal, with more games ending in 4-0, 0-4, 3-1, and 1-3. It would not surprise me if 2-2 was the least likely outcome of a match overall. 4Ks would be more satisfying as a killer if they were more rare. 4 escapes would be more satisfying as a survivor if they were more rare. The game itself would be more thrilling if the balance were such that from the beginning, you knew it was likely some would die, while some were still likely to live, rather than it feeling all-or-nothing every match. More important than balancing around a two-kill average, the way I understand, is controlling the distribution to be either uniform (flat) or modal, with most games ending in 2-2.
A key thing to keep in mind in process analysis is how one change could potentially affect everything around it, so while some of these suggestions may sound outlandish if implemented in the game's current state, or all implemented together in the exact way I've describe them here. I believe they are direct solutions to some of the biggest challenges the game is currently facing. GEN SPEEDS/SLOWDOWN was originally going to be a subject I discussed here, but upon reflection I came to the conclusion that Gen speeds were a dependent variable. If the state of the game changes to where downs/kills are reliably more fast, gen speeds/slowdown would need to be adjusted to be faster in order to remain balanced. If downs/kills become reliably more slow, then gen speeds/slowdown would need to be adjusted to be slower for balance.
***On to the actual post***
**SURVIVORS** often complain about the following:
**CAMPING**, whether its face camping or proxy camping.
Understandably, this is not very interactive for survivors, as usually the optimal play is to just do generators and send someone to try to trade before the next hook stage (unless against an instant down killer, in which case you just do the gens and get three escapes). But survivor players don't enjoy doing gens all game while the killer merely stands under or patrols a hook. There's no longer a need to look over your shoulder for the thing that's trying to kill you, which is supposed to be core to the game as far as I can tell. Naturally, survivors often opt to try to rescue the person on the hook, which invariably leads to free hits and often downs, not as a result of a sneaky or cunning approach, nor a well-executed chase, but because you had to walk right past the killer in order for your teammate to have a chance to play this match. I understand the frustration of survivors facing a camping killer.
Personally, I don't see why the hook timer can't be paused while the killer is within a certain proximity (calculated by pathing, not being a floor up for example) of the hook, or has a direct line of sight to the hook. One argument I have seen against it is that survivors could just loop the killer around the hook, but I can't think of a scenario where the killer doesn't catch someone doing this more easily than they would have if more tiles were being utilized. Another argument is that when all the gens are done, the best play for the killer is to stay by a hooked survivor. I think this is totally fair, and the hook timers should not be paused once the gates are powered. Finally, I have heard that camping is a legitimate strategy, and it's not the Killer's job to make sure survivors have fun. True. It's not the Killer's job to ensure the survivors have fun. The Killer wants to win, just like everyone else. However, just because a way to win exists, does not mean it is healthy gameplay (healthy defined here as interactive with proportional skill). Many of my end game chats after these games have Killers saying "I was looking for people hiding near hook." That's fine. Killers should be able to do that. It's a good way to snowball pressure. They could still do that if the hook timer was paused, they are just disincentivized from doing this as an excuse to camp the hook. This change would completely disincentivize face camping, and further limit the effectiveness of proxy camping, which I believe would lead to more interactive gameplay (which translates to a more enjoyable experience overall, unless you camp because you enjoy making people upset, but that makes my point for me that camping is abuse).
**TUNNELING**, whether it's off the hook or just heavy prioritization to chase people who have already been hooked more.
I was very happy to see base-kit borrowed time added to the game (again, this is speaking as someone who primarily plays killer while solo. I did not find camping the hook or tunneling someone off the hook to be very interactive gameplay, even as killer. The idea that I had to consciously make decisions to play fair as killer never sat well with me). However, since it's release, I have lost count of the times I have seen a killer double back to a hook and down the freshly unhooked survivor before they could reach a tile, just as their endurance ran out. In terms of killing alone, the natural incentive is to hook the same survivor 3 times in a row as fast as possible, as it greatly reduces the amount of pressure on the killer for the remainder of the game. It does not seem interactive to me that the majority of a player's game was spent on the same hook, or futilely attempting to run from that hook to a nearby tile.
I don't see a reason for the endurance effect to be so short. Even if it were an entire minute (which would admittedly be extreme), as long as it's cancelled by conspicuous actions, there's very little a survivor can do to abuse it, save maybe trying to take a hit for someone else.
A more extreme solution, but perhaps still worth discussing, is a revive mechanic that costs hook states (whether it's one or two, or whether the cost is based on number of survivors remaining). If it took time for the survivors to revive, and costs hook states, it is still a net gain for the killer, without the game being hopeless as a result of the first 3 hooks being on the same survivor.
**LAG**
I have been playing videogames for a long time. In every game I have played, other than DBD and Dark Souls (where your "world" was locally hosted), if you were lagging it only affected you. It sucks to lag. It makes it very hard to keep up with people with better connections. But it has to be that way. Whether it's giving people the ability to use a VPN or Lag Switch to gain an unfair advantage, or just someone with a poor connection gaining an unfair advantage, if you're the one lagging, you're the one who should be lagging. I don't care if it's the killer or the survivors. I have so many clips of hits happening from the second story of a building to the ground below, through solid objects, while the killer is facing the opposite direction, 20 feet away etc. The only people who like it this way have poor connections.
**KILLERS** received a lot of much-needed love in the recent massive update. It will take some time to see what new sources of Killer frustration may rise as a result, but generally and historically, Killers often complain about the following:
**GEN SPEEDS**
One of the worst feelings as a Killer is when you're trying to down a survivor, or maybe even struggling to find one, and gens just start popping all over the map.
I mentioned in the intro that I believe Gen Speeds are a dependent variable. They only need to be as fast or slow as the killer can reliably get downs/kills. That being said, there are some thoughts I have that I would still like to share here. Currently, it is generally best for survivors to split up on gens nearly all game. At best, the Killer is able to pressure one person off a gen while 3 others continue the gens undisturbed (or two, if one is on a hook/injured, while another rescues/heals them, or one if another is doing totems etc.). There are two primary reasons for this: overall gen progress is faster when survivors work on separate generators, and only one survivor will be disturbed when a gen is found. I'm curious as to why solo gen speed is faster than cooperative gen speed when it seems like the less risky of the two.
**OVERUSED SURVIVOR PERKS**
The recent massive perk overhaul attempted address many concerns killers had about the overuse of certain survivor perks, which had resulted in a stale survivor meta. Dead Hard is a discussion in itself, but some I would like to mention are Decisive Strike, Unbreakable, and Borrowed Time. It is my understanding that the overuse of these perks were in direct response to the survivors facing camping, tunneling, and heavy slugging, and that adjusting these things with built-in game mechanics would have made the survivors feel less compelled to stick with these perks (as I'm certain the built-in Borrowed Time has resulted in a significant drop in perk use).
**IMMERSED SURVIVORS**
Every Killer has experienced it before. You killed a survivor with 3+ generators remaining. You patrol the remaining generators. You make a couple laps, and don't see so much as a scratch mark. Maybe one of the gens is no longer regressing, so maybe the survivor is still hiding nearby. Maybe not. Maybe one of them is in the basement. Maybe one of them is in a locker by a completed gen. Maybe one of them is crouch-walking from bush to bush. When survivors give up on gens, and all just want to play for hatch, the game becomes a slog. I believe the nerfs to Iron Will and Spine Chill were in response to this. Which is unfortunate, in my opinion, as these perks are now effectively unusable. Stealth, while annoying to the killer in its extreme, should still be a viable option for survivors, and these were the only perks considered strong for that playstyle.
I think it would be interesting for survivors to be on a timer to perform conspicuous actions (when not in chase). Similar to the AFK crows, a survivor just crouch walking around or doing laps around the basement hooks could, after some time, alert the killer. If you think about it, survivors who do this have basically abandoned hope and only seek to survive. It would be nice flavor for the Killer to be able to sense that fear, and it would incentivize survivors to stay active. This helps both Killers and Survivors. Killers, because survivors will be easier to find, and Survivors because they're teammates will be more active.
**CONCLUSION**
BHVR has put in a lot of effort to address the concerns of the DBD community this patch. It is important for the community to be able to have honest, productive discussions about the state of the game in order to provide useful feedback to BHVR and improve the overall experience of all players, Killers and Survivors. This can be done by identifying the roots of problems, and distinguishing them from symptoms that arose from another problem. Whether you're a Killer or a Survivor, or even both like myself, it does not help the community to form bubbles and not listen to each other. Please keep an open mind, and trust that we all want a fair, fun, and interactive experience for everyone, so we can develop a clear path forward as a community.
Thank you, and see you in the fog.
So your friends don't get mad killing them? I never kill my friends cause they always get so upset If I would and I have to play very fairly too. But bhvr really didn't try to fix camoing and tunneling as they are now much more viable. I would give survivors basekit ds but killers would need buffs to compensate for that in higher mmr. Probably best way to would rework some maps to be more killer sided.
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@tester said:
People here say it's legit strategy. BHVR says it's like hockey. Okay, sounds fair...
I'm sure those solo survivors loved the "legit strategy". Game lasted less than 2 minutes. 2 DCed when they realized they are not comin g out of basement.
Now the question is: will BHVR give solos basic communication tools and make it into more fair and enjoyable game or will it be always that easy to camp a win in this hockey game?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/K8AQ1ZEFK84C/camping.jpg
Survivors you faced were obviously bad when you reach high mmr try this again and result will be very different but you will be facing swf there ofcourse. Devs want soloQ to be miserable otherwise they would already add some form of basekit kindred.