Chewy102
Chewy102
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@Blueberry said:
CoH is still too strong for hit and run to be viable on anyone essentially. At high mmr it’s still nearly in every single game. If they aren’t running CoH then yeah hit and run works but that’s always been the case, it was CoH that really destroyed those type of killers and that play style and that’s still the case. The healing is just too fast and unlimited for everyone at only 1/16 perk slot cost, hardly any downside at all and realistically no counter play. The new anti boon perk is laughable.
COH murdered hit&run strats due to how much of a pain it is for a Killer to go to some random far off spot on the map again, again, and again. Dredge can do that though, for the most part, within moments instead of minutes. That's also why I went with Sloppy. Smack a fool, let them run away while you maybe pressure someone else or break a lock, and just teleport to where that first Survivor might have gone to interrupt their healing and undo it. Then teleport back to the gens and repeat as needed.
Honestly starting to like Dredge.
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@CrowVortex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2992814#Comment_2992814
It does not, you need to physically open it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/327607/dredge-is-a-somewhat-workable-hit-run-killer
I run something similar, with Ruin / Plaything / Pentimento / Thana. - Same idea ofc, just more slowdown. Using Tilling blade and Field recorder.
Tilling blade is basically sloppy fyi, when hitting full health survivors in Nightfall, Field Recorder to start off in Nightfall, or use Worry stone for some Aura's to get a decent start to start the Thana / Nightfall buildup.
Ruin for regression, Plaything to apply oblivious and cover ruin somewhat. Once they start cleansing, hit them with the pentimento for 30% slower gen speed / Heal speed (Depending on how many totems are cleansed), Ideally keep one totem spot free if more than 2 are cleansed), on top on Thana which is 20% slower speed if all 4 are injured. With how mobile he is, you can easily make this build work, and take advantage.
The problem I see with that build is that it can't be sustained.
There's no way you can ever keep a constant supply of those add-ons. It's hard to keep a supply of green add-ons. Great for a once in a while type of gameplay, but you just can't sustain add-on use like that. Pentimento also isn't really reliable. Plaything as well is doubling up on Dredge's natural stealth from Nightfall. If Survivors are gonna be oblivious for half of the game anyway from Nightfall, why would they want to cleanse totems to get rid of Plaything? It has potential, but not all that sustainable. Ruin is a good idea though for the total combo package in making Survivors want to cleanse at least 1 totem.
If it works it works I say! Love that Killers can actually make use of varying builds according to the player's playstyle.
But I really don't like making higher tier add-ons part of a core build mainly due to how non sustainable they are. Browns, Yellows, and Greens yea I have odds of keeping a stock of any of those for constant use. Greens might run out once in a while. But Purple and Red add-ons are just far too rare for me to consider a "build" and are just one off things to change things up.
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@Neamy said:
Curious as I keep forgetting to check, with the locker perk, when dredges teleport is ready you can just walk up to and jump in a locker to start his teleport. Does just getting into the locker also trigger darkness revealed?
Never tested it either. You'd think it would, but it's also safe to assume it wouldn't. Doesn't really mater either way as it's better to just open the locker, look around, then teleport from how you often need to adjust yourself to aim for that exact locker you want cross map.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2992539#Comment_2992539
No, it's understanding balance in a game. SWF have little advantage when compared to how much of the game Nurse ignores.
It doesn't take a genius to know this.
If you want the game balanced around the extreme of Nurse, then the game also needs to be balanced around the extreme of comp SWF.
Fair is fair after all.
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Same here. Started about 20-30 mins ago and I just logged off after 3 failures.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2989338#Comment_2989338
I think you underestimate how much of a time loss it is for the killer if he has to break out of a locked locker, then hit another locker, then start chasing.
You also have to figure in the time saved by the Dredge teleporting to lockers in general.
Even outside of Nightfall TPing to a locker is MUCH faster than walking. That alone often more than counters the time it takes to break out of lockers and/or M1ing random locks. Add in Nightfall and the time saved through TPing is even greater. 5-7 seconds "slowly" teleporting to a locker compared to the 10-20 for walking. That's a hell of a difference and most likely can afford the extra 3 to break out of a locked locker. Teleporting is almost ALWAYS faster than walking. The time saved adds up!
Teleporting also somewhat limits Survivors reaction time as there isn't all that much of a warning where the Dredge is till after he already teleports. Can't W meta and run early by reacting to a terror radius when there is none even if the Dredge is in a locker 5 meters away. Even bad locker spots are often gonna give better chase starts than walking.
Im all for the current priority system. Dredge is (so far) looking to be strong enough to handle it, and this also allows more more things for Survivors to think of instead of just sitting on gens or holding W
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More or less, yes.
Dredge's anti loop is good, but it makes him slow and has a tell. If you see his off hand raised up, he is channeling his power. Meaning he can't attack for a little bit after stopping his power or teleporting. Depending on the loop or pathing you can just run away to the next loop. Maybe go the other way around your current loop if need be. And there are still loops that are just too strong for Dredge to deal with without being forced to break a pallet. And there are loops that the Dredge can murder at with well placed lockers.
Need more time to figure out where Dredge is tier wise. But I like how he changes the gameplay a little bit in having access to a few different mind games or 50/50s.
But Dredge also seems to be weak against the W meta of just running away. Not so much the distance gained, locker TPs help there, but in how the Dredge can easily mind game himself to losing chases.
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@Veinslay said:
I thought his zoning might be too strong at 115%, but I can't imagine it would be worse than Pyramid Head, Nemesis, or Demogorgon.
All 3 of those you can predict or react to. They all also have some decent limits to their powers to where or how they can be used.
Slinger doesn't really have that many limits to his power. The only thing holding his power back is the windup time. Outside of that, if a Slinger sees you then odds are he can hit you if he has the aim to do so. Even through the smallest of holes in walls. Not every shot will down, but every shot will wound and force mending. The long reloads or stun times are nothing compared to the time saved not having to run full loops.
So Slinger needs some kind of counter balance. Move speed is a decent choice as it makes it that much harder to line up a shot.
Think he could use a buff though. Not move speed, not range, not reload speed. Maybe making his ADS a bit faster, that nerf to his original ADS was needed but felt a bit too much. His chains also need to be a bit stronger by default. Landing a long range shot is often not worth attempting due to how quickly his chain breaks before being able to get anywhere close to the Survivor. At least add in a way to break the chain yourself without being stunned or locked in an attack miss animation.
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Who does use map offerings as Killer if I may ask? I can't really think of any reason for Killers to burn a map offering outside of wanting to do a gimmick game like Mirror Shape.
My point of view is that map offerings are just about worthless or are only used for abuse. Read a suggestion that they should be reversed and fully agree. Instead of burning to get that realm, you burn to NOT get that realm!
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In no real order
Hillbilly and Cannibal are obvious choices for having a 1 shot power. Both depend on the map a little bit, but both can often do work.
Hag can be a monster if you can place traps around before a chase starts. But can't really "chase" otherwise.
Nemesis is a snowball CHAMP! Early game he is average at best, or flat out weak with that infection hit giving a speed boost. But after a while there's little Survivors can do against his tier 2 or tier 3 whip.
Plague is more or less a M1 Killer, but she almost never needs to chase someone twice. Good/great snowball. ######### horrible getting emblems though and can't "win" (get pips) to save her own life.
Twins have been said already. Victor is just good at finishing a chase.
Artist has a W issue, but is deadly once learned.
Huntress is A tier for a reason in most lists. If you get a good map, there is no where to hide from a hatchet.
Demogorgon is always the bestest of boys.
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Shape, Onryo, and Executioner.
Shape may not be the strongest physically, but he is the only Killer that can kill Survivors under his own will (tombstone add-on) without needing permission (mori) to do so. Shape is also the only Killer that actively resists the Entity's control as well as feeds off of it's power against the Entity's will. Tier 1 Evil Within is legit just the Shape and his own strength without any help from the Entity. EW 2 is when the Shape only has a taste of the Entity's power taken out of Survivors. EW 3 on the other hand is when the Shape is actually making full use of the Entity's power, and Shape can't sustain that power due to the Entity taking it away from him. The Shape can even still keep hold of that power out of shear will with another add-on.
The Shape is the ONLY Killer able to not only fight against the Entity's will but act under his own will instead.
Onryo is 2nd due to being able to kill under her own power. She doesn't really accept much power from the Entity, but can't resist the Entity either as the Entity is heavily keeping Onryo in check by making it hard for her to kill based on her own rules.
Id make Executioner 3rd most powerful from PH being able to slightly overcome the rules set by the Entity in being able to sacrifice or kill Survivors in his way. PH is still fully bound by the Entity though and still has to follow the same rule of 3 for hooks/cages.
In physical strength though, Id have to say Hillbilly.
Hillbilly not only has great physical strength and high speed, his perks shows that Billy doesn't give 1 ######### about being hit either. He straight up is Rocky in being a punching powerhouse who can take a beating and never stops going forward.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Boredom is subjective.
I find being run for multiple gens because RNGJesus blessed the Survivors with insane tile placement to be 'boring".
A streamer I follow finds it "boring" when a killer runs Lightborn.
Some people find farming "boring".
It all depends on the person's perspective.
Not just tile RNG, entire maps can make or break how a Killer plays and ends up a drag.
Playing Nemesis tonight and out of maybe 6 games all but 1-2 had maps that just didn't allow him to use his power and was W meta for the most part. That's what I call boring. It only get worse when Survivors know you can't do much and they rub it in your face at a gate or in post game. That's not just boring, it's tedious and kills the mood to keep playing. More so when you want to do better, but can't without going back to meta or the same old ######### we've had for 6 years now.
Want to give examples, but that would just be complaining at this point.
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The box can't spawn with X meters of Pinhead and not within Y meters of a Survivor. So for some maps it isn't that hard to roughly know where the box spawns based on your spawn as Pinhead and knowing about where Survivors likely spawn. It's the same spawn system for the start of the game or any time it respawns.
Not saying that there aren't cheaters. But something like this can be learned rather quick through just playing Pinhead and figuring out the spawn rules for your box. Some maps it's very easy in fact to walk directly to your box.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2967649#Comment_2967649
All my teammates had dh but they went lot sooner down than me so I did what I could but that distance was just needed in these mstches and agains't nurse or blight it's only good counter.
The way you worded those posts makes it seem like you and you alone are the sole reason your team loses or wins any game depending on if you have DH or not. It's either that or you are saying that without 4 DH's no Survivor team has a chance at winning.
Both of those are simply wrong.
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Dredge in S tier?
Granted I wasn't able to play him that much but I just didn't get that good of an impression from Dredge.
Good/great map pressure from locker teleports. But his chase ability felt lacking.
Leaving behind your remnant can be used as an anti loop, but using it makes you very slow and is very visible to the point where a Survivor can just run to the next loop or make use a nearby window. Teleporting to a locker mid chase tends to not work either. During Nightfall locker teleports are certainly fast enough. But without Nightfall they are just too slow and locker placements tend to not support this in the first place around most loops.
Dredge feels like another M1 Killer for the most part. And those tend to fall in B tier.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2960966#Comment_2960966
Some of those hitboxes are ridiculous. He is harder to play than most people admit solely because you need to know where all the protruding obstacles are. Lol.
Thew map isn't much different. It has some rather, solid, bush leaves. In what few games I got to play on there I just kept getting my M1s blocked by them.
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Back then there was things far, far, far worse than Dead Hard.
Infinite loops, windows that never got blocked, 20 second recharge Sprint Burst mid chase, perma sabotage, and more. I was a launch player and remember so much bullshit. Don't think DbD was better in the old days, it wasn't and the only reason people assume it was is because almost no one knew how to properly play yet as no one needed to from how easy it was to abuse those things.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901039#Comment_2901039
Seems like a waste of a Perk Slot
That's the good thing about playing Killer. If you want to use a different perk/build then do so thanks to how each Killer plays in a unique way on top of how each player can play each Killer in their own personal way.
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You already said it. Shred is a very useful power and allows Demo to get full effect out of STBFL with near zero downsides when every other Killer has to deal with losing stacks and can end up with a wasted perk slot.
Shred when useful, M1 when needed, and both only get stronger as the game goes on.
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@FFirebrandd said:
For a while now I've wanted Unnerving Presence to still increase odds of skill checks, but replace the standard ones with Old Ruin's skill checks. It's really dumb that a Killer perk can make gens and healing faster.
Why not an Uno reverse?
Keep the smaller good zones, but make landing a great skill check give a negative progress instead? Wouldn't really effect your average player as most will aim for the good zones. But skilled player wouldn't be able to take advantage over UP, they in fact would have their muscle memory screwed with due to wanting to avoid great skill checks.
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Haven't played in a while, so I can't confirm if this is still a thing.
But since Nemesis came out and likely before that the perk RNG has been god awful by constantly refusing to allow you to keep tier 1 perks. Meaning that if you have a tier 1 perk, it's tier 2 version WILL be in the next web. Iv watched this happen without fail over several Killers. This wouldn't be a much of a problem in higher levels as you often have 2-4 perks to pick from out of each web.
Early levels though before it is certain to get multiple perks per web (1-30ish) it means that your perk selection is gonna be VERY limited! You'll end up having like 28-35 perks in TOTAL to choose from by the time you reach level 50. And even past level 50 you will be getting constant repeats of your tier 1 perks clogging up your webs.
That system simply means it takes much, MUCH, longer than it should to get a wide selection of perks. Getting that 1 perk you want becomes an insane grind.
The RNG should ALWAYS force a tier 1 perk in EVERY blood web! Once you open more perks per web then repeats can happen. Or better yet just use pure RNG and forget about the whole repeat crap.
That makes the early levels "weaker" in the since that all of your perks aren't gonna be anywhere near strong. But you will almost double your selection of perks in total. It will be the same grind to max out a character or get a build to all tier 3. But the grind for the total perks in general will be cut by anywhere between 30%-60% making the entire grind feel much better from always getting new stuff.
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Been running a hex build to slightly counter COH with Nemesis. Doesn't do a lot, but it works well enough for me.
Ruin, Haunted Ground, Thrill of the Hunt, and BBQ.
Ruin is simply Ruin, but as I run Zombie detection and speed add-ons they can help force Survivors off of gens to squeeze some extra regression time. And Survivors can't really remove Ruin without risking HG. Add that with TotH's slowdown and you have a decent amount of time stall early/mid game.
Haunted Ground is to fill totem slots. 2 hex totems with a single perk is great value and you always have odds of getting more value out of HG with a quick down. Sometimes it allows me to get around the 3rd hit needed for infecting Survivors and that is BIG for Nemesis once he tiers up!
Thrill of the Hunt does the bulk of the combo work though and is highly anti COH. With 4 hex totems it "should" take ages to boon anything and, as said, cleansing totems isn't exactly a great idea either thanks to HG or Survivors really wanting to keep totems in good spots. But you can't leave totems up either as Zombies, even as useless as they can be, really do help with gen pressure. It's a massive time sink no mater what way Survivor go that makes early to mid game less stressful who also helps for late game after burning through a chunk of Survivor's resources.
BBQ is mainly for the BP gains. 2X BP is just too damned good to not have. Really helps in maintaining a supply of the exact add-ons you need when there's only like 4 in total you ever want to use. But the tracking info you get from it is nothing to ignore either. Add BBQ tracking with Zombie tracking and you tend to know where people are, or are not, for a lot of a given game.
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@jesterkind said:
Your maths is sound as far as I'm aware, but I think this is focusing a little too much on that one aspect of the perk- as Mandy said, it's still going to have the buffed +100% stagger and the 16m hook aura cloaking, so I think the abusable portion being worse is pretty fair.
It may definitely still end up being that it'll need something akin to the buff you proposed, but that part of the perk is not the only part and isn't the only thing it's supposed to be doing for you when you equip it.
That extra stagger is really undervalued and underrated.
Any indoor areas can be a hard to navigate by default, that boosted stagger makes them a right pain in the ass with you getting caught on everything. Not just indoor maps either. Anywhere that has some clutter or a tight area can cause the Killer to be stopped dead by that wiggle stagger for a second or 2 and that's for each bump. It adds up over a game.
But, the real problem is that Boil Over is compared to the likes of DH or DS. Those perks are so WELL BEYOND most other Survivor perks that nothing can compare to them and so everything else looks like crap.
That's why most other games change meta by taking a taking away from it instead of building on.
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@RakimSockem said:
Not that Boil Over was ever gonna be meta but I find it funny how we (we meaning the community) complain about the meta and everyone running the same perks, but when useless perks get buffed (and are still meme worthy), we immediately want to nerf them to ensure that the meta never changes and no one is ever incentivised to run other perks.....
People want the meta changed. Adding to the meta doesn't change anything about it. To change a meta you gotta do both give AND take, meaning the current meta for both sides needs weak/underused perks buffed and strong/overused nerffed.
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Don't know when it happened but the grind was made FAR worse from how the RNG picks what perks you get. The game will constantly give you repeating perks and hates leaving you with a tier 1 perk. If you have a tier 1 perk, it's tier 2 version WILL be in your next blood web and WILL keep showing up till you finally get it!
It doubles the perk grind. No joke, Iv watched it happen for the last several Killers Iv leveled. Before this a level 50 Killer could have anywhere between 30-50 perks depending on your choices, most would be tier 1 but at least you'd have them at all. Now since Nemesis came out (that's when I first noticed it) and a level 50 Killer will have 20-25 total perks, almost of them tier 2 or tier 3.
I watched this happen for Nemesis, Cenobite, Twins, and Executioner without fail now for all levels of prestige. Without fail!
90 Killer perks with 3 tiers each, comes to 270 levels to get them all. But with this repeating RNG, it's gonna take like 200 levels before you even have tier 1 of them all. It's worse for Survivor with their 101 total perks.
My opinion?
A tier 1 perk should ALWAYS show up in EVERY bloodweb! Then as you level up and get more perks per web the game can RNG those slots for tier 2/3 versions giving the player a choice between new or stronger perks.
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Played a couple of games last night as him and might have had 1 bit of animation jank. But there was something wrong with his vaccine chests.
They only open when you get close to them. A Survivor can have opened the chest minutes ago, but the chest remains closed for your client till you get close enough to the chest to hear it open. Lost a chase due to that as I walked into a room, heard the chest open, seen it open, and yet there was NO ONE around it. Asked about it in post game chat and it seemed to be that way for both Killer and Survivor.
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Does anyone remember the Victory Cube, an older ranking system for Killer that was based around raw kills and hooks? Anyone remember how poorly that turned out and how it was replaced with the current ranking system we got now that judges Killers on various acts throughout the game of hooks, chases, time stall, and gen protection?
Now, since the devs already tried a kill based ranking system and it failed for not being an indication of skill. Who thought it was a good idea to try that again?
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What about a vampire hunter?
A madman who assumes all around him are vamps who he ruthlessly hunts down using a bladed cross as a weapon.
His power would work similar to the Plague and Clown. VH uses bottles of "holy water" and can swap between laying tripwire traps of them or throwing them directly. If a Survivor sets off of a tripwire or is hit with a bottle directly they are covered in that "holy water" who is in fact a noxious and infectious acid and leaves behind a small fuming pool. First covering of this "holy water" envelops a Survivor with a cloud of fumes and forces them to scream with pain and continually grunt with further pain. This can be spread to other Survivors by nearby contact and must be cleaned by an uninterrupted channeled action away from any sources of "holy water". Further coverings of "holy water", refusing to remove it, or remaining in near contact with fuming pools or other covered Survivors over time begins to make their grunts of pain louder and reduces vision. Once a meter is filled the Survivor loses 1 health sate, but can not lose more than 1 health state due to being covered with "holy water".
VH's mori is him pinning a Survivor down on their back, praying a short verse for their soul, and ruthlessly driving a wooden stake into their heart.
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So, NOED "is" rewarding the Killer for bad plays. Just Survivor bad plays of rushing before thinking/planing instead of their own.
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That's not how you balance a game. Adding stronger and stronger anything is called power creep and ends up ruining everything you need to keep adding stronger and stronger everything to keep up. If something is too strong, you reduce that strength.
Fighting fire with fire often enough causes a bigger fire.
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@Jay_Whyask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2616832#Comment_2616832
🗿
What did they do?
Doesn't warn you that a Hex totem is being touched anymore. The added time to cleanse or bless a totem is nice, but without that warning you can't really use that added time more often than not to protect any of your perks.
One of the only reasons to run ToTH was to get information out of it and protect your Hex perks. Gives Survivors a choice of to risk going for a Hex early and getting caught out, or do a bunch of dulls first to lessen that risk of being caught. Now that it doesn't warn the Killer, there isn't much any risk at all unless the Killer just happens to wander by. And you know, is not actively chasing people or patrolling gens.
That was done so Boons could be more effective.
It's the same story as Hangman's Trick. The main reason to use that perk before it's rework was to have hooks respawn after a kill so you couldn't make a dead zone. Helped most Killers in supporting a 3 gen better by never having to worry about running out of hooks. Or just in general if Survivors wanted to run to the same corner. But the devs removed that feature effectively killing the perks any real use.
This change happened to make sabotaging hooks more effective.
Don't forget about Franklin's Demise either. It got changed to simply reduce charges of an item over time instead of destroying it over time. This was something of a buff against most items as it instantly started working the moment the thing was dropped. But without destroying the item it did nothing against Keys and allowed Survivors to better maintain their already vast abundance of items allowing them to constantly use higher tiers more often. Buff in the short term, nerf in the long term.
FD got changed due to Nemesis and it having a "chance" at making Survivors using his vaccines less effective.
See a pattern?
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If you take a moment to look at it, the DD shack is bigger than normal. It's in part due to forcing that door for the gimmick of it, so the devs had to make the shack a bit bigger to fit said door. That size change likely can't be taken into other maps.
If you also look around the shack in DD, it's a static placement. Nothing about the shack changes and nothing around the shack really changes from game to game. The DD shack was made for that map and that map alone. It is less of a Killer Shack and more or a 2nd main building for DD. DD itself is one of the maps that doesn't use the tile based map generation system either.
Taking that bigger shack to another map will cause problems. Might not even fit in a standard map tile or leave so little room that it would piratically be touching or overlapping with adjacent tiles. To put that bigger shack into other maps would require far more work than it's worth.
There's a reason why maps with unique buildings/tiles don't share those buildings/tiles with other maps. They just wont fit more often than not for one reason or another.
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It forces a slow vault, but I think it should prevent a pallet drop.
That slow vault is one of the good things about his chains and makes some loops where you could risk to mind game less safe or a certain hit. But most pallet dropped or window loops are still rather safe when hit by the chains due to Cenobite's delay using them.
One reason why a lot of people see Cenobite as a weaker Killer. His active power isn't really gonna do much in most games but be a toy. Cenobite is mainly about his passive power in chain hunts, if you can get them to start that is.
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He gets a thumbs up from me. Not bad, nice gimmick, but no where near great.
1v4 ability is one of if not the best in the game. No other Killer has a certain way to pressure more than 1 Survivor at a time. Twins are good in their own right for making ambushes but need time to setup. Nemmy "can" as well, but depending on zombies is a waste of time.
Cenbite's 1v1 though, is a bit lacking. His chain just doesn't do anything in standard chases. He often doesn't gain any time using them in a distance chase. The time spent landing a chain could even be longer than the time he gains making it a negative to use his own power! But when you get into mind games Cenobite's chains can be rather nice, if the loop is short enough to allow it. Loops like the tucks in Autohevan are an example of where his chains are great. Those pallets aren't safe at all as once chained Cenobite can walk around the pallet to often land a hit. A few window loops tend to work out in his favor as well. T&L walls, if you mind game them, can be used to chain Survivors with decent effect.
But once Survivors get into the "just hold W" mindset and run away the moment you get close. Cenobite falls right back into being mediocre like a lot of other Killers in 1v1.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2540516#Comment_2540516
Now roll that dice 50 times.
That 2.85% chance becomes an almost certainty.
Roll a Die with Start StopRoll that die 50 times and tell me how many times you get a 3 and how many times a 3 comes up in a row.
I just did it myself. 50 rolls and landed a 3 3 times with 2 of them being in a row! Lucky! Did it again for the number 14, had only a single 14 rolled. And again for 30, rolled it 3 times. 50 more rolls looking for the number 1, landed 2 of them.
Compare that to the guy who posted just before you did and claimed to get the same map 5 times in a row. Or the few other people that claimed to get the same map 3 times in a row or my claim of getting the same map 2 times in a row 3 different times cross as many sessions.
With people playing anywhere between 1-3 hours in a single session and at 15ish minutes per game. That comes to 4-12 games in total for a single session give or take. It should be VERY rare see the same map in a single session at 1/35 odds. And yet that just isn't the case as multiple people are claiming to get the same map multiple times in a row.
I can't really explain it any other way than the RNG system being changed or just broken for it to give so many repeats. And as said, I can prove this happening in recently generated bloodwebs as well as prove older bloodwebs didn't repeat.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2539859#Comment_2539859
Go back to school, retake statistics.
If you roll a dice twice and it's the same number, does that mean the dice is broken? No
50 times sure, but not twice in a row. Twice in a row is common. Even three or four times isn't too rare, given enough data points.
That's as far as maps are concerned.
Now perks on the bloodweb are a different matter. They DO seem to have a systen that retains the same perks, and there's a reason.
The game doesn't know if the perk you missed out on was one you wanted or not. Sometimes the entity claims it before you can.
Maybe you're desperate for BT and DS, they both come up on the same bloodweb, you claim one, the entity claims the other.
So instead of never seeing it again for 50 bloodwebs, it repeats in again.
Take a D6 as an example. You have 1/6 or 16.66% odds of getting any number. But getting the same number twice in a row is 1/36 or 2.85% as those odds are mathed at (1/6 X 1/6 = 1/36).
Those repeating perks wasn't missed at all. They are often the only perk on the entire bloodweb in lower levels and yet the same perk shows up again on the next level. I watched this happen for the last 3 Killers I leveled. All 3 have total perks equal to half of their total level. Once I seen the pattern I watched it happen for 4 levels in a row with getting the same perk for 2 levels in a row twice. Also have Killers who was leveled months ago and their perks are spread out so much that their total perks nearly match their level. I can take screen shots if you want to see yourself
There "should" be a 1/84 or 1.19% odds of getting any perk on my Cenobite. But over the 28 levels Im CONSTANTLY getting the same perk twice in a row. The odds of getting the same perk twice in a row should be 1/7056 or .01%. The odds are "better" for my Nemy and Twins as I had less total perks for each of them to pull from but they are still insane odds of pulling the same perk twice in a row yet it is a constant.
As for maps. I have no proof or evidence from my personal gameplay outside of my memory. But as said there are 35 maps. So there should be a 1/35 or 2.85% chance at getting any map. To get the same map 2 times is a row is 1/1,225 or .08%. There are also several reports here of other people getting the same map more than 2 times in row or the same map several times over the span of a couple hours. I don't even want to know the odds of that as it's gonna be so improbably small it might as well be impossible.
The RNG system is giving repeats. I can prove that with my bloodwebs and there is enough claims here for map repeats to be called strong evidence. An RNG system that gives constant repeats isn't RNG and it is giving a negative impact on the game in making gameplay stale from repeat maps and making the already long perk grind twice as bad from repeating perks.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2538675#Comment_2538675
Getting the same map or perk twice in a row is not evidence that "RNG is broken" and you don't understand probability if you think it is.
That said, bloodwebs do appear to preselect perks for you, so if you miss a perk on a blood web, it'll come up again shortly after.
Again. Read other replies. Several people are claiming to get multiple repeats of the same map. That is evidence of RNG being broken.
My bloodwebs are giving the same perk twice constantly. It has done this for the last 3 Killers Iv leveled with all 3 having total perks being half to that of their level. That is evidence of the RNG system being designed/changed to give repeats instead of being more varied like it used to be.
Repeating maps makes the game stale. Repeating perks makes the game's grind take twice as long. Something is either wrong with the game's RNG system or more likely it was changed to give repeats. Both shouldn't be happening and both makes the game worse.
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@Artick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2538599#Comment_2538599
I'm aware pure randomness is impossible in software. But I felt like explaining that is too much detail to go into. Point is, if you always start with a different seed(a typical seed is the current Unix timestamp because it is monotonically increasing) then you will get different numbers - which is close enough to random.
I already explained how favoring realms with multiple maps can happen so I suggest you read that again. Without knowing the specific implementation details we can only speculate, but it's reasonable to assume the system picks a map at random from the entire map pool: each map has an equal chance of 1/total_number_of_maps. However, since maps are not evenly distributed between realms, this system favors realms with more maps. This doesn't imply that something is wrong with the map picking system, it works as it is supposed to do. The "problem"(if you want to call it that) is the uneven map distribution, which yields a number_of_maps_per_realm * (1 / total_number_of_maps) chance to get a certain REALM(not map). This could be fixed by firstly picking a realm with 1/number_of_realms and then picking a map inside that realm.
There is also the fact that a while back devs added a system that allows them to increase the chance of picking certain maps. It was used around chapter launches to favor the new map, especially during PTBs. For all, we know they may periodically mess with the map picker to favor certain maps. Perhaps they want more games to be played on particular maps to better assess map balance. But again, this is just a theory.
I also doubt that the devs implemented their own random number generator - they probably rely on the C++ standard library. Then, there is no way something is wrong with the generator unless they forgot to initialize the generator with a seed or their system is more complex than picking a number at random and indexing the map array with it.
Did you not read anything else of my reply? The stuff about how multiple things to do with RNG is repeating?
This isn't favoring a certain map due to it's DLC launch or from a PTB test. The PTB is a different version and there hasn't been a new map since RPD plus they stopped favoring realms in general back when Nurse came out as since the Asylum had a realm to itself it was picked FAR more often than any other map. This is map RNG picking the same seemingly random map multiple times, but it is doing so for different random maps on different days for different people. It isn't just maps either. RNG is repeating for perks as well. Just finished another game before making this reply and gained 2 more levels. Both gave the SAME PERK! That's now 4 levels in a row that each repeat perks out of 84.
The RNG is broken. No need to break into the code to explain it. The game's RNG isn't working as RNG and is giving repeat picks for multiple things.
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Here's another example of repeating RNG. Not for maps as Iv only played 1 game. But for perk repeating.
My Cenobite is level 28 now, and also now has 15 tier 2 perks! 2 levels in a row gave the same perk. 2 picks of the same perk in a row, out of 84.
Yeah. I have not a single doubt anymore that the RNG system isn't rigged to give doubles of everything.
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@Artick said:
It is random. Somehow people expect random numbers to always be different. That's not how it works. It is entirely possible to draw the same random number 100 times in a row. Sure, it's unlikely, but it is possible.
The same thing applies to maps.
Also, depending on how the system is implemented, it may cause a bias towards realms with more maps. If the system first picks a realm and then a map in that realm there is no bias and every realm is equally possible. However, if the system directly picks a map then you have a higher chance of going to the realms with more maps.
For example, there are 5 autohaven maps. If there are 35 maps in total, then that's a 5 in 35(or 1 in 7) chance to go to autohaven. On the other hand, the chance of going to the swamp-themed maps is 2/35 because there are only 2 swamp maps.
Random can't exist in a video game. There is always something that decides what RNG gives. Most use seeds based on time or frame data, others use player input, some do a mix. Point is that random is not random in video games as true random can not exist.
Something about the RNG system DbD uses is ######### as it is clearly favoring certain realms or even exact maps more than others.
Over 2 sessions I had 3 maps be picked twice each in a small sample of games. Others are saying they as well are getting repeats of exact maps or only a small selection of the total. That isn't random, that's a pattern of something wrong in the game's RNG.
After looking back, Iv also noticed the RNG system repeating itself in my bloodwebs. Out of the 90 or so Killer perks in DbD, I have 84 unlocked (don't own 2 Killers). My Cenobite at level 26 has 14 total perks. ALL of them tier 2. Somehow RNG managed to repeat pick 11 perks (you start with the 3 teachables) twice out of 84 in total. What are the odds of that? Compare that to my Clown who's P1 level 27 and hasn't been touched in a long while. He has 26 total perks with 4 of them at tier 2.
A level 26 Killer with 14 tier 2 perks, compared to a level 27 Killer with 26 perks who only 4 are tier 2. Something about the RNG broke and is giving repeats.
My Twins is doing the same thing. Recently ground out them and is at level 40 with 20 perks. 3 tier 3, 14 tier 2, and 3 tier 1. My Twins is showing just as much repeat picks as my Cenobite. Nemesis isn't much better at P1 level 49 with 28 perks and 13 of them being tier 3!
Once more. Something about the RNG system is clearly giving FAR too many repeats and is no where near "random".
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
7 out of 10 games were McMillan the other day, I think I commented about it somewhere else
That's been a thing since the game launched. For me Autohevan tends to be the most common realm. But based on the last few sessions it seems to have gotten a lot worse.
Took a long, long, break from DbD so I can't say when this became a trend.
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Skimmed over this and didn't see one of the big factors for making all of the other "exclusive" cosmetics free for all.
People sold them for real money and at insane prices. Some of those things was selling for HUNDREDS of dollars! And you bet there was also people being scammed over them as well. That's reason enough to just make them all free for everyone.
Legacy on the other hand never had to deal with that. It was impossible to get Legacy without first earning it legit through grinding out prestige when it took 3-5 times as many blood points per level and with BP gains per game being much less than compared to now. Legacy wasn't "given out", it was earned.
And it's my opinion that it should remain exclusive. It's so rare now that it might as well not exist anyway and gets you reported for hacking more than anything.
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@Inspire said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2531341#Comment_2531341
Netflix K-Drama series.
Series? Thought it was another Death Game movie where everyone plays simple games that end up killing everyone.
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In low skill games, Killer is by far the easier role as most Killer wins are by Survivor mistakes.
So it can look to be that you are against a "skilled" Killer when in truth it is dumb teammates killing themselves against a low skilled Killer.
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2522602#Comment_2522602
Could be because of our servers? I play on central so that could be the thing.
I didn't notice any increase in skill for a while and yes I was winning most of my matches because for some reason even new survivors know that if you hold m1 on a gen all separately meanwhile others get chased then most likely they will win.
Weird thing is that I also saw a few prestige players that played like new players, I'm assuming they dropped the game for a while.
US East for me. As said, seemed that I could see the skill of Survivors grow the longer I played.
Went from obviously new and/or didn't even try. Understood the objective and made attempts. Then came the "I watched this on YouTube!" plays, trolls, or what ever. And it was only towards the end and after 5ish hours that I seen proper looping, jukes, or perk usage being more commonly attempted. Not quite there at what I remember "high rank" gameplay was those months ago.
Could just be hindsight being 20/20. But I swear I noticed skill growth over time.
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Haven't played in several months, not since before the Blight came out but for a few games when Nemesis released. So my MMR should be at "brand new player" levels due to having no data to go off of. Played for 5-6 hours straight yesterday and in my first hour or 2 of gameplay it is VERY obvious that the new player experience is very much for either new players or those that are just bad.
Met a lot of cross play people, so I couldn't check their stats. But starting out it was obvious, beyond obvious, that the vast majority of people belonged in the low MMR brackets. Talking people that never look around, never watch the Killer in a chase, try to "hide" after being seen, getting stuck on every wall or rock, all the very clear signs of a brand new player or someone that just does not have any real skill. It was only after a few hours that I noticed Survivor skill going up. Survivor skill is getting better, but as an old Killer main it isn't too hard to tell the difference between someone attempting to be skilled and someone that is skilled. It still feels low to mid ranks.
Don't know why our new player experience gameplay is so different. But from my point of view MMR is working. Not perfect, not even close. But it is working as with me not having any MMR data I was matched with others that seemed to have no or low MMR data as well. Then as I gained MMR data by "winning" so many games Iv noticed over those hours being matched with others of ever growing skill.
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I like the fact that perk RNG forces you to use other builds. Gets kinda stale using only the same thing all the time. It's good to swap Killers and builds once in a while.
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@KerJuice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2338684#Comment_2338684
Mmmmm, ok. Interesting. Personally never encountered that before.
It happens. Even had one of my rare DC moments and called it quits on DbD for the day. Likely has nothing to do with farming, just a bad game that was about to get a lot worse.
Bad spawn with me top floor room of Iron Works, all 4 Survivors spawn in the shack on the same gen, and it being 80% done before getting there. Granted I made a few bad plays but kept playing. It was one of those "3 gens finished before a single down" games due to finding skilled Survivors for a change and RNGed a relatively safe map while playing a M1 Killer, Nemmy. No chance in hell I would have done anything that game yet I would've kept playing to at least finish it.
But then someone started to vault spam after finishing the 4th gen with still no hooks due to everyone now spread out and running early. Don't know if it was them taunting me, trying to farm, or what. But I noped the hell out of that game after hearing that vault spam. Not gonna put myself through that crap as odds are it was a taunt and it would have been pure abuse playing that game out. Knowing you don't stand a chance is a bad enough way to end a session.
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@KerJuice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/263979/you-want-bp-play-the-game
What do survivors do to indicate they want to farm?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2338641#Comment_2338641
Lmao
Mainly Tbagging after walking up to me. Had 1 guy do that TWICE in a game and it wasn't because he wanted to be chased or trying to be killed off as he attempted to play the game after his first hook. Others just stand in place, likely accepting death due to a DC. But mostly it is a Survivor walking up to the Killer tanking a hit then going to a pallet as it is "their turn".
If that game is to be a farming round, then the Killer needs to be the one to suggest it. If the Killer is bobbing his head, acting goofy, spamming his power, or what not then it's likely gonna be a farm game as the Killer isn't just gonna straight kill you. But if the Killer is running right up and smacking your face off, then odds are it isn't gonna be a farm game and you ruined it for everyone else by game throwing.
I just don't like to sit there doing nothing. And farming for Killer is just that. No chases, no mind games, just smack/wait and smack/wait in between getting pallets dropped on your head. That isn't fun. Would rather wait in the lobby for the next game than wait in a game doing next to nothing. As said, I will take it easy or give hatch/gate more often than not.
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@theplaggg said:
They need to fix the console performance before enabling the dc penalty again.
I agree, but without it DCing ruins the game for everyone. Just finished a game where 1 person seemed to not load in and DCed moments after start. Then seconds later when I pulled someone out of a locker he DCed.
As a Killer, I do not reward DCs. If someone DCs Im not gonna farm with the others, will take it somewhat easy but not farm as Im will be doing nothing for 10+ minutes.