Devs target playerbase
"That made long shots super viable and strong and with having couple streamers in our chat rn, while you are looking at your chat saying very funny things, well, you would get shot by a pillar that came out nowhere". THIS is the justification given to us by devs on their discord stream for making Judgement's projectile far easier to spot.
This is the smoking gun that explains the most questionable balance decision for the past 2-3 years. It's nice to know devs balance around players that cannot even pay attention to their surroundings. I hope the devs can extend Sadako's lullaby to like 32m since, what if survivor gets grabbed? Terrible stuff. Bhvr sabotages SoloQ by babysitting these players, and new MMR is not gonna help here if this keeps up.
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How can I watch a movie on my 2nd monitor while playing Survivor. Great change imo, good job, BHVR!
Years ago a popular streamer had a video outlining why he's against better matchmaking, and a reason was because it's too hard to engage with his chat if he's against players on his own level. I've never forgotten it because it just seemed so ridiculous to me. I'm sorry but yes, if you are multitasking then your game will be harder to play. That's the way it goes. If you're eating with one hand and playing with the other then your game will be more difficult. If you're watching a YouTube video in the background, your game will be more difficult. If your kids are screaming in your ear, your game will be more difficult.
Is there a video from the discord stream of the devs saying this? I've only seen 2 people on here mention this and it seems like something that normally would've exploded on here the moment they said it on the stream.
I think that using streamers as a Justification to do anything for a game is bad. that being said, think about some things that do exist in the game for everyone, since you mention it making solo queue worse… currently the only UI to know what your team is doing is on the far left side of the screen, doing a generator is one of the best times to look and see what's going on with the team… in that split second you can get sniped, some people just aren't fast enough to dodge something with almost zero warning… it's just the reality of the game.
If the killers power is gaining an advantage of sniping people through terrain without them really having time to see it coming then maybe it does need some changing. I understand that the killer is very difficult to play already, but I think its just one of those things where we'll have to see how the week or so goes after release as to whether or not certain things need to be changed.
For Example: Ping is one of the biggest and most common discrepancies in DBD, maybe previously you could see the beam coming in just enough time to react, add a little ping to the killer and you're getting hit from across map without much warning AND a faulty hitbox. I know ping is another issue entirely but it is something that can affect this killers power in a huge way. even projectile hits from the huntress with high ping can be absolutely mental on occasion.
I think The Judgement will be a case of a killer that looks weak on release but becomes more consistently strong after people have really had time to learn the ins and outs of how she interacts with everything in the game. Ultimately she isnt even in the game yet and i think itll be pretty easy to tell once she's added if her nerfs were justified or not.
Where were these comments made im curious to see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQnC5Pi4iPwanyone got a re-upload or anything (rip i see a discord stream)
Managed to find the stream here for anyone else curious
around 14-15 min mark they make the streamer remark regarding the changes.
The expectation should be that players pay attention to the game.
Not that they're not and need the game made easier for them.
"Chat distracted me."
And?
Haddienator on X: "Nerfing a killer because the streamers read the chat... What the #########? I say this in the most hateful and disrespectful way possible. What the #########??? https://t.co/dNgB4r2Cb0" / X
@bm33 @random1543 for those who are curious.
Thank you i went looking for a full stream managed to find one.
I dont like reasoning for the changes even later on around 18 min mark they say its so its easier for people who are not 360ing the camera which should be a skill expression not something that needs to be changed.
You clearly dont know about mythical spotify bill
In all seriousness, they were always bad about justifying their decisions, good and bad.
Artist:
To be fair, Artist already has that in her kit: you can very briefly see the swarm in flight when she launches crows. This can only be hidden with an add-on, but at the cost of having the crows themselves be visible for 0.5 seconds when summoned.
It's on the Paulie Esther's channel. Here:
https://youtu.be/gQnC5Pi4iPw?si=4ZCNd2rFeXq4sths
Bruv, you cannot be serious about this. It only should take you a quick glance to know what your team is doing. You aren't starring at UI for 29 years wondering what they are doing.
"If the killers power is gaining an advantage of sniping people through terrain without them really having time to see it coming then maybe it does need some changing." You had enough audio and visual cues on PTB to see it coming already. This is dumbing down survivor role at this point and it's impressive you managed to squeeze ping issues. Why? Ping is something not at all relevant to this topic.
The Judgement's changes are weird and make already hard killer even harder to play. Why bother with Judgement when counterplay to it is far far easier than actually play it, not to mention it will take so many hours to be even decent at it and you might as well just play Nurse or Blight and get the same results for far less effort.
I think certain people angry because they wanted to bypass the learning and specializing taking the game into hostage, with getting into middle and spamming beam attacks towards gens and hex totems. There was like dozens of streamer videos where their brilliant idea is to make gen sniper build, and spam button constantly. This was a potential pubstomping no brain playstyle
Judgement is far from the only noobstomper killer we have in the game, and let's be real, this isn't any different from Artist sending crows towards gens.
I can agree on hex totems being an issue on this killer but if they made this change to help with it, then it doesn't fix anything? You still need to get off the totem and the progress will be reset.
I think it would be the ultimate casual player stomper thats why isnt allowed, gens would be issue, constantly going in and out, while killer brainlessly spamming attacks, and really most imagined to play her this way
bro don't talk to me like i'm an Idiot, I absolutely can be serious about this. Videos have been going around showing the problem before nerf, in some situations you would have about 0.5 seconds to react to a beam if you were on a gen. if you happen to be checking what your team is doing that matters a lot, actually. I am not trying to say that I need 3 business days to read the simple UI on the side of the screen, what I am saying is that it's already enough that you can snipe someone through a wall, it doesn't need to be near immediate. when you are dealing with those situations where you get 0.5 seconds to react, and you happen to be looking at UI, or you happen to be hitting a skill check, or any number of other things that require you to briefly divert some of your attention, you might get hit and not have reasonable time to see it coming. it doesn't have the benefit of skill like the huntress hatchet does at that range its just a straight line once people get it down that voids terrain.
Why are people angry that a killer with a much more potent power than… bear trap guy or half invisible man, is made hard to play. that's the point of killer variation. if anything too many killers changed or added in recent history are getting too much for too little (or are entirely broken in an unplayable way, shout out houndmaster) there is nothing wrong with a stronger killer that is equally hard to play. We all know why the Nurse has sat at the top for so long, lets just wait and see how Judgement does in regular gameplay and then nerf or buff it accordingly after public release.
Acting like Ping doesn't insanely affect every killer damage interaction is ridiculous by the way, its always relevant, everyone sees a fair bit of it in their games, to pretend like it isn't relevant in an issue where they're making a snipe style ranged attack more detectable is dishonest.
killer being hard to play isn't the issue, survivors having an easy counterplay made easier is.
As for ping thing, yeah I agree, issue being it's not on the topic itself. My post criticizes Bhvr game design, Ping will always play some sort of role on any killer so why are we nerfing particullarly this one? Wesker on higher ping can grab you behind walls? Should we nerf him too?
the difference between wesker grabbing you behind walls, annoying as it is, is that wesker is in the act of chasing you, not slinging projectiles through walls from across the map.
That's the problem with such an imposing power, it has to have strong drawbacks as well, I am in the camp of not liking the power at all to begin with, it sucks up close, often times outright sliding through people and it encourages just throwing nonsense at people not even engaged in a chase, that's less interactive as a design concept than the Knight, it literally encourages you to fling projectiles at people from a distance that aren't in chase because the projectile is so hard to hit and so janky to work with, that's an awful design concept, I don't know why people would want that personally. I think it will be one of those problems where when you play it, it's going to feel like you should be hitting things with the power but you aren't and when you play against it if you're getting absolutely no-skill sniped from across the map while doing the objective, its going to be a bad experience. either The Judgement will end up seeing play from people who learn to use its power in chase rather than gen snipe, or it will be one of the most loathed killers ever added to the game by survivors because getting hit through the wall by a questionable shot from an M1 killer is already upsetting, its going to be hell when people start complaining about getting hit from the other side of the map when on gens.
I haven't played the judgement myself, I have only seen videos of it, ultimately I may agree with you once they're released onto the main servers, but for now I can't, hard to endorse making such an outright strong power also fairly easy to hit
you may be right. either way i don't like how bhvr decides to babysit players and let's hope this will end soon
Honestly the increase in distance on the aura read is actually at least understandable, I actually tend agree with it from what I've seen of judgement on the PTB, and it should be an easy enough number to adjust in future patches if it doesn't work out…but I think a 'DODGE NOW' overlay like you're doing a QTE in an action game is more than a little embarrassing, and combined with how blatantly stupid their justification was, I don't think many people are going to think about the ins and outs of the range increase on its own merits separated from everything else, even if theres a real discussion to be had.
I think this is happening at this point primarily because Behaviour is refusing to take a decisive stance on what kind of game they are trying to run. I tend to be in the casual group, I like the setting and idea behind the game and couldn't care less about how good or bad an individual killer is as long as they feel like they embody who they should be per their IP or their Lore, and I think there are a lot of people who are this way, I personally think survivors should be more than three perks and there should be a reason to play them individually. regardless, the point I am making is that there are also a significant portion of people who play this game and expect it to be competitively balanced, these are two groups of people who don't get along in game and Behaviour seems to be trying to hold them both down simultaneously while losing both parties…
I wish we could get a "this is a comp game" or "this is a casual game" written in stone and then some of this would clear up, I would just leave and the comp enjoyers can have their fun. but instead it's just a little to appease the casuals and the comp enjoyers get angry because they value the time they spend trying to master something, or a little to appease the Comp players and the casual players get angry because they feel like they can't just enjoy the setting.
I don't know what's more baffling. The fact that this unironically is their way of thinking or the fact that they thought that casually revealing it in public would be a good idea.
I think the dev in question just had a clumsy way of articulating why they felt they needed to give Survivors a little extra warning that a beam was heading their way. Could also be an accessibility consideration (and they don't want to repeat the mistakes they made with The Spirit having nothing like that in her counter-play). I don't think it goes any deeper than that.
I'm not going to pretend I know if that's a good or bad thing for the viability of the Killer because I've not been the slightest bit interested in this upcoming community chapter. I haven't followed it. But I think it's silly to jump on one little thing that a dev said as if it represents BHVR's entire balancing philosophy for the game.
That said, I do feel like popular content creators have an outsized influence on the game sometimes. I'll see a video come out and feel like I've just seen a preview of some future patch notes, because quite often what they suggest (for better or worse) comes to pass a few months down the line.
I hate being right; Told yall people aren't going to appreciate Judgment. Having to pay attention to the killer each time they use power is asking too much.
Saddly the games where devs didnt babysit are less and less viable.
At this point Im just waiting whats next QoL change?
A optional aim assist for range projectials in menu options maybe?
The odd part is, I know several several streamers when facing a great opponent can still make time to talk to their chat...(When being hooked, when hooking a survivor, when doing gens, when not having a killer chase you specifically)
If you want an easier match to talk to chat, you don't want to play a game, you want a "jingling keys" interaction
It's hard to feel bad for killer mains. Y'all loved the streamers when they got sprint burst, cross examination, and vigil nerfed. Loved them when they got anti-tunneling and slugging killed. Reap what you sow.
Quite literally no correlation. The change was made for people being oblivious which tell that to anyone and they would look at you with confusion. Would it NOT be right to be punished for not paying attention?
The reason given was definitely bad but that doesn't make the change bad I think is the biggest point, Judgement might release a little weak, I would imagine the Nurse, if released today would feel weak on release… I just like the idea of great killer powers also having great drawbacks, when you consider how extreme some killer powers are now compared to "Bear Trap" or "Kind of Invisible but not really, just a little bit" people are arguing over whether a cross map shot is fast enough or too obvious and I think its crazy that there's even such a thing as a cross map terrain ignoring snipe… I'm skeptical of how it'll launch, maybe it really will be too weak with the new changes but I wouldn't be surprised if The Judgement quickly becomes a high tier killer once people put real hours behind it.
I agree, it's not just about streamers in particular but overall adding that "little" warning to ensure that the most clueless survivors don't get bodied by getting sniped on a totem or a gen. I am not sure about accessability thing.
Maybe they thought about this as well but at the same time I didn't see anyone really complain about it and after rewatching some PtB clips, you have clear noise and visual cues. I kinda can't think of any subtle way to potentially improve that aspect without going Bhvr's route of making it extremely predictable. So idk, maybe the devs will issue a statement or something to explain it better.
In my Legion games before they improved the visibility of the deep wound timer bar, I would frequently get newer Survivors not realise that they needed to mend and then they would bleed out sitting on a gen. Since they fixed that issue, it hardly happens these days. So I think this is kind of a similar thing, to avoid something like that happening. I personally don't think we'll see much of The Judgement in low and beginner MMR, but they still have to consider the possibility that less experienced Survivors will potentially get caught out by long range snipes like this. If I understand their power correctly, you won't always have line of sight on a beam when it's heading towards you (say on an indoor map). So they have to make Killers feel fair to players at all levels of the game, especially as there is already so much to learn in DBD.
Perhaps they also saw players doing this and it wasn't their vision for how the Killer was intended to be played. Just like how some players would stall a Trial defending a 3 gen to such a degree with Singu that the server would eventually kick everybody out and give a "win" to the Killer.
Plus, it's a live stream with people who are probably quite nervous and lacking in media training. I often forget what I'm meant to say when I'm nervous and might make a joke instead to get through an awkward moment. Maybe this dev is the same. I don't really know their rationale, just putting some ideas / possibilities out there. But as you say, maybe BHVR will tell us more soon.
Honestly, what boggles me the most is that, out of anything they could have come up with for this justification, they chose 'streamers can't multitask' to be their answer.
Here's the thing. The snipe was already not that strong as you already had visual queues. The effect of a snipe could be strong with multiple injures but again that's assuming they aren't paying attention which is seemingly the reason behind the change. But making them more forgiving is NOT it when it was already a standard killers terror radius away to see it.
The problem with Judgement in comparison to nurse, is that nurse still requires you to pay more attention in comparison to Judgement. If both released now with Judgement being how they will be with this. Nurse will be picked over judgment.
Personally I think having a hud alert for it in general is a poor idea.
Plus it doesn't help in all honesty, using that as the reason, although it might not be the main but stating it? Paints them in a bad(worse) light to the community.
i'm not necessarily against reverting the nerf, I am just wary of the outrage, I will decide what I think on release, the outrage right now seems a little performative to me just because we can't possibly know until full release
they killed vigil because of streamers. The devs cater to them even if it is unhealthy for the game.
Cross-Examination was literally broken and could give infinite stealth and free basement escapes. And the anti-tunnel did nothing to fix the root of why killers tunnel, which is that it's the only way to physically have enough time to beat the insane gen speeds.
So… does Judgment get complete Aura reveal while casting her ability? Must be hard for Killer Streamers to keep track on their chat and the Survivors.
This post was sarcasm btw.
But it is funny that a killer gets nerfed because survivor streamers wanted it while killer streamers which are ringing the bell that no casual will play this killer will get ignored.
An obvious joke taken way out of context. It boggles me that everyone takes this as gospel truth and not see it for what it is. Just a joke. Being blown way out of proportion.
Like if survivors are not easy enough already. But true, having 2-3 killers who can keep up with higher end mmr is truly a reasonable way to balance game with 40+ killers. I'm telling you right now, that everyone will either run hexes and spam beams at gens and totems or run feather + kneeler to make her pyramid head. But us killer players who looked forward for new journey to master fairly strong killers can skip this killer.
Don't think it was a joke, however i do think it was an example given off-handedly. I don't think it's a solid indication that they are literally balancing around streamers being able to chat while playing. I do know 'i don't like (insert thing) because of the effect on my streaming' is not a new sentiment among content creators, so I do hope that it's not something that BHVR take into consideration even a little bit when making decisions. Especially since a lot of their consultants are DBD streamers.
I think this statement, intended to be considerate of players who haven't seen this screen, is the culmination of the developers' efforts to create a situation where players don't have to think at all when playing as a survivor.
As with the chat wheel scheduled for future implementation, I think it’s perfectly fine that the game is rolling out a steady stream of features and considerations aimed at players who lack the ability to judge what their teammates are doing or what they themselves should be doing—since this game isn’t a serious PvP title but rather a party game meant for everyone to have fun together. However, this consideration is extremely limited for the other faction—the Killers. Ultimately, Killers are often forced to do everything at once—defending generators, chasing the Survivor right in front of them, and disrupting heals—and there are simply too many matches where tunneling or camping ends up being the optimal strategy. As a result, matches tend to become monotonous for both Killers and Survivors.
I don't get the humor at all, if it even was that. Why dont you explain to us what the joke part was since you are so adamantly defending it?
Waiting for the myers and ghostface update for getting close enough to grab you off a gen because your reading chat. Or fully exposing you. The curve window im also sad about as a billy player because I felt a lot of her strength similar to him now I have to pull off so much more effort I might as well keep on billy.
vigils time was coming. People are just upset that BHVRs actually doing their job. "what the heck they are actually nerfing meta!?" but what about OTHER SIDE!?" that's all it is.
at the top level all you do is split, pre run, call out and never commit to anything unless the killer does. It's just as boring as 4 man slug at 5 gens with Coulrophobia and that needs to go too.
there's nothing skillful about it it's just winning by sheer mathematics. Survivor mains despise me for being reasonable, but Vigil/SB aren't hills we as a community should be dying on. I can't believe people are actually outraged.
People called me crazy for wanting SB/Vigil nerfed over 150% WGLF but at least WGLF is a fun perk that encourages BP gains and not just being super safe and boring.
"WGLF is in my opinion the worst perk in the meta and deserves to be nerf all it does is Promote teamwork"
"Vigil however Mostly for the user. And just happens to deal with every effect, including exposed, but the exhaustion thing I need"
This is satire and not my honest feelings I just feel like people who are heartbroken over Vigil are... Not seeing the full picture
Nobody asked for another overkill.
my problem with the nerf is that they didn’t just reduce it they gutted all its other uses entirely. I used vigil without exhaustion perks because i think a perk like friends on ghoul or nurse is absolute bullshit.
Oh you hooked my teammate now im exposed through no error of my own and you know where i am? Vigil helped counter friends a perk that needs to be changed.
When is the killer meta getting gutted in the same fashion.