woundcowboy
woundcowboy
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@JarMa13 said:
I criticize it.
It's not a strategy, it's exploiting weakness in game design.
I'm a killer. No hooking anyone twice till everyone is hooked once. No hooking anyone thrice or moris until everyone is hooked twice.
No hooking anyone twice in a row (#4 can't be #1 in round two bookings)
No pursuing an unhooked survivor until they've healed or completed a gen if healing isn't their interest or run no mither.
Playing by these rules I still get 4/4 every time unless I let them go.
There is no excuse for killers to be Petty and Unsportsmanlike.
If survivors die with less than 10,000BP, you were unsportsmanlike in one way or another.
How about people play the way that they want to play? I play so that I have fun, not to make sure that survivors have fun.
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Luckily, I just lobby dodge or equip a mori when i see a key/multiple toolboxes.
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@Dito175 said:
If you could choose any map or realm to receive a fresh new look, like they did with Lerys, wich one would it be?
I'm not talking about balance in this post, it would be just about the visual. my personal choices would be Mcmillan, Coldwind or Autohaven.
At this point, none of them. Both of the map reworks have been heavily unbalanced.
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@yandere777 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1048802#Comment_1048802
Unfortunately, a toolbox is a toolbox and seeing 2 or more will either result in a tryhard build or a lobby dodge. Just like seeing 2 or more keys.
You say this as if it’s not understandable. Getting gen rushed by toolboxes or having people escape without deserving it isn’t fun. Even if the killer wins, the match will be short and dull.
If i see multiple toolboxes, the mori is coming.
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@AStupidDavid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1045134#Comment_1045134
The game is not broken because of loops, the game is broken because of gen speeds. You can't just take away safe loops from survivors when you have killers with abilities that can easily counter even the safest of loops by either mind gaming or placing traps, it's just a matter of knowing how to play them and if safe loops were gone some of these killers would automatically become overpowered. Safe loops are needed otherwise games would be too easy for killers.
Uncounterable loops? Ok, here's a list of killers who can easily counter those "uncounterable" loops with their abilities:
-Trapper: traps
-Hag: traps
-Freddy: snares
-Spirit: phase walk (if you have stridor she's easier to use)
-Ghostface: night shroud and crouch
-Pig: crouch and then use her long lunge
-Wraith: cloak and block the pallet or the window
-Demogorgon: shred or fake shred
-Huntress: throw a hatchet or fake a hatchet
-Nurse: blink
-Doctor: shock therapy or blast
-Clown: bottles (he does need strong add-ons to be viable though)
-Plague: corrupt purge (this one in my opinion needs strong add-ons as well, especially in the red ranks)
Legion: feral frenzy (definitely needs strong add-ons and strong perks🤣)
Oni: blood fury (you'd be surprised how easy he can counter loops now that he got his flick back)
Billy: you can mind game safe loops with his chainsaw easily, make it seem as if you're not going to break the pallet as you charge your chainsaw and then you break it (enduring and spirit fury can make him one of the deadliest killers in the game)
Yes, some of them are harder to use and sometimes some of them won't be able to mindgame or outplay survivors on certain safe loops forcing them to have longer chases but eventually every single one of them can catch and down survivors if their abilities are used properly. It's not like you'll get looped til daylight which should've been the title of the game when it came out and that is why in my opinion loops are balanced at the moment, you can't down survivors in 20 seconds but they can't run from you forever unless they have the best RNG in the world and get two jungle gyms and two T walls next to each other which is extremely rare but can happen, it's happened to me twice this month and I know how annoying it is as killer but that's not a reason to get rid of all the safe loops and replace them with unsafe loops such as the ones in Hawkins. So my question here is are you a Bubba main? If not, I don't see how you could have so much trouble with safe loops and this leads me to believe you're not a red rank because you shouldn't have trouble with jungle gyms and safe window loops if you use your abilities properly.
Many of the powers/counters that you listed do not work at safe loops. Good luck trying to pig dash someone at the cow loop lol. Even Billy doesn’t do much with the saw at larger loops if the survivor is aware- it takes too long to reach them. The only real answers At larger loops are spirit and Nurse (the best in the game) and Freddy.
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@AStupidDavid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1045105#Comment_1045105
Killers don't swing at unsafe pallets unless they have enduring and spirit fury, they either double back or moonwalk. I'm red rank on both survivor and killer as well and overall killers won't swing at me at unsafe pallets and I won't swing either unless I know I can get the hit for sure.
Dude you're gonna tell me that a window next to a pallets is op? You clearly didn't play the game back in the day where jungle gyms had two windows and two pallets usually, enough is enough.
Just because the game isn’t as broken as it used to be doesn’t mean that it’s okay. Moonwalking can be countered by just continuing to run. You are right that they will eventually get a hit, but chases are not meant to go on forever. The game is most fun when both sides are thinking imo, not when there are uncounterable loops.
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@AStupidDavid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1044678#Comment_1044678
You can't guess right on an unsafe pallet such as the pallets on Hawkins, a high rank killer will never let you get a stun on them in one of those pallets without landing a hit on you, for a killer it's really easy to mindgame unsafe pallets, safe pallets are more of a challenge but it is not impossible unless the survivor is literally a God (you said you wanted every map to have unsafe pallets such as the ones on Hawkins so that's why I'm using that map as an example)
Do you even understand how unbalanced the game would be if there wouldn't be any safe loops in the game? (Not saying it isn't currently unbalanced, but removing safe loops would only make it worse) Survivors would go down every 30 seconds. Let's say you're going up against the doctor, what do you think is going to happen if he shocks you before you can drop the unsafe pallet? You have no windows or anywhere to go and he'll just hit you easily because you won't be able to go around in time to drop the pallet, you might get the stun but you'd definitely get hit and that makes no sense. Like I said, you can forget about safe loops being removed because that's literally the only defense survivors have and the only way for them to outplay or mindgame a killer, there's no mindgame in an unsafe pallet not against high rank killers.
I play both killer and survivor btw, your comment is extremely killer biased and you don't need to be a survivor main to see that.
I play both and am always rank 1 (not trying to flex, but ranking at least shows that i play a lot.) It is definitely possible to stun red rank killers at unsafe loops. If they swing at you and you drop the pallet, they are stunned. If you fake the pallet and they respect it, that allows you to loop again.
I also didn’t say windows should be removed, but they probably shouldn’t spawn next to other really powerful structures (jungle gyms). There are some windows though like on ironworks and abbatoir that should be removed.
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@AStupidDavid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1043783#Comment_1043783
Unsafe pallets provide no chance for the survivor to outplay the killer, that's why they're called unsafe pallets, they're pallets where survivors can easily get caught. You're clearly a killer main so I'm not gonna waste my time arguing with you, however I can assure you safe pallets will always exist as long as we have killers like the Trapper, the Hag or Freddy (killers that can easily shut down even safe loops) and killers like Demogorgon, Spirit, Pig or Ghostface (killers that can easily mindgame and outplay survivors even on safe loops).
Unsafe just means that killer doesn’t have to break it. The survivor can still stun and gain distance if they guess right. How is this not fair? Like I can’t believe that survivor mains think it’s fair that you can drop a pallet and the killer can do nothing except break it.
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@Spirit_Hag said:
Im looking for some insight here. I've seen the notion of "gen rushing" among many forum posts and its looked at as something "toxic" on the survivor side thus killers feeling its cause for them to play in a more dirty playstyle. But i guess what confuses me is, why is doing gens seen as something killer players are almost offended by when survivors do it? Is that not their primary objective of escape? If survivors are criticized for doing gens, what would you suggest they do? chests? totums? neither of these objectives lead to escaping. If you were a survivor, what would you spend the match doing? walking around waiting for the killer to find you, chase you, and eventually down you until you die?
I dont mean this maliciously, but im genuinely confused when i see this topic come up. I can understand tea bagging, flashlight clicking, body blocking, etc as "toxic", but "gen rushing" never made sense to me. It seems the frustration should be more with the devs than the survivors themselves. Can anyone give some further insight?
Contrary to popular belief, gen rushing is not simply just doing the gens. Here are the things that qualify:
- repairing in the killer’s face
- disregarding totems and slamming gens (bonus for complaining about noed).
- bringing toolboxes with insane addons, especially when 2 or more survivors do it.
i’ve seen plenty of instances where the last survivor repairs a gen while their one other teammate is about to die on hook.
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@AStupidDavid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039767#Comment_1039767
Too many safe pallets and safe areas? ######### what do you want a map full of unsafe pallets and no windows? Lmfao also, what Peanits was basically saying is that overall survivors and killers have been nerfed nearly the same amount of times regardless of which one of them has been getting nerfed the most lately. There will be times where killers will get nerfed and there will be times where survivors will get nerfed, period
Safe pallets shouldn’t be thing, so yes. A survivor should have to think before he or she drops the pallet, kind of like how most them are set up on Hawkins. Safe loops provide no chance for the killer to outplay the survivor.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040694#Comment_1040694
Thats the point. One perk turns the loss into at least a draw.
Thats a hell of a thing for one perk. Only adrenaline can do that if all survivors take it.
Okay, but a draw is not this bats* ** crazy thing that should be removed from the game. It’s usually still a loss from my experience.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040420#Comment_1040420
That's the thing, a perk which generates an extra kill or two is pretty damn powerful, no?
Not really. If the killer has reached endgame with 3-4 left, the game is pretty much lost. At that point you are happy with 1 or 2. As a killer, I much prefer to run perks that help before the gens are done.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040332#Comment_1040332
And I go down to NOED after doing 4 totems and spending 5 minutes looking for the 5th but to no avail.
Sucks eh?
Oh well. I have around 2000 hours as killer and survivor, and in that time, a very low percentage of games have been significantly impacted by NOED. It usually means that the killer gets an extra one or two. They only steamroll if the team is stupid.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040024#Comment_1040024
So you wait around the hook trying to deny unhooks and then you complain about DS.
Umm, that's the reason DS was brought in.
Um no, ds has come into play even when I wasn’t looking for that survivor. Killers can do well by abandoning it only if the survivors are weak.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1033353#Comment_1033353
Why are you waiting around the hook?
I can see now why so many players here find the game hard as they aren’t applying any pressure to the survivors sat elsewhere pumping generators.
1) not everyone runs bbq
2) why would i go to a far away gen, in a safe zone, not close to other gens? That’s a losing strategy. It’s more effective to stay near the hook.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039610#Comment_1039610
We've nerfed plenty of survivor perks as well, if time isn't a factor. Let's not forget that Sprint Burst used to have a 20 second cooldown and recharge mid-chase. Several nerfs later, you could still stack it with Lithe, Balanced Landing, and Dead Hard. Nowadays Exhaustion exists, and it doesn't cooldown while running at all.
Double pallets are gone, DS doesn't activate the first time you pick someone up, MoM has been massively toned down, instaheals are no more, instablinds are dead and gone, vacuums have lost their suck- the list goes on. There's changes to both sides, we're not picking favourites. Sometimes there's going to be changes that are great for you, sometimes the pendulum swings back the other way.
In recent months, the changes have heavily favored survivors. Instaheal nerfs are valid, and MoM is too, but there are still far too many safe pallets and safe areas on maps.
The amount of killer nerfs has been staggering: Nurse’s map pressure was killed, pig has been nerfed several times, Spirit and Freddy have been nerfed, Ruin nerfed, sounds broken, and worse yet, you have said that more slowdown nerfs are incoming. And also, the last two map reworks have hurt killers even further. If you compare changes from the last few months, it hasn’t even been close.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1036106#Comment_1036106
Not really. Any other killer you can run and hope for the best lol
You are dead against any killer if you have a potato team.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1036015#Comment_1036015
Its risky because theres no guarantee they’re going to block it successfully also the other survivor would have to sprint, hoping the person doing the rescue can tank the hit before the guy unhooked sets off a trap.
Basically in a solo game if you don’t have DS you’re likely dead.
Well that’s a potato teammate issue, not the killer. Welcome to solo games.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1035968#Comment_1035968
Lmao
Try reading it again.
I explained why none of those situations would actually work. Your only counters are DS or hoping the other person has BT realistically. You cant control the perks that other people bring either so...
So what’s wrong with the unhooker tanking a hit?
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1035478#Comment_1035478
No, I specifically said when she comes running back to the hook. Don’t try to change the argument.
If the unhooked survivor runs, they set off a trap and get hit.
If the unhooked survivor crouch walks away, they move too slow the Hag catches them and they get hit.
If they wait to be healed, the Hag will be back before they’re healed fully and they get hit.
Again the only option is to bring DS or hope the other survivor is willing to take a hit or running a perk that would help (BT, We’ll Make It)
You just listed several counters, so I don’t see the issue. The unhooker could also take a hit to make sure the hooked person is safe.
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@liquidlight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1035690#Comment_1035690
Very specific conditions must be met. For three people to escape that means all but one gen was finished. lol
Yea and that’s broken; it should never happen. The survivor objective is to finish 5 gens. Not 4.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1033130#Comment_1033130
I always viewed Insta heals as the equivalent yo mori's. And instas are already nerfed yo the ground.
Keys aren't that bad. If 4 survivorsescape via hatch than they were likely getting out anyway.
Keys are the most broken item in the game. 3 people can escape without finishing the gens, which is absolutely busted.
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@Johnble said:
We'll be mad at YOU because YOU control how you play. If you don't like it, find a different game, instead of using what the devs are doing to justify being a dick to other people that paid for the game just like you did.
Matches with excessive items aren’t worth playing. Either the survivors gen rush and the game is over before it starts, or I manage to down them and the game is still over fast. Toolboxes and keys aren’t fun for either side, so i’d rather avoid them.
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@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1023105#Comment_1023105
Wouldn't Mori (they are the closest thing to old BNP alive in the game), instant hatchets, and instant down camping all fall under exploits as well then? You call BNP and old sabotage a exploit, but these things are also deal breakers.
Moris and instadowns are in no way comparable to instant gens and old sabo. The instadowns require some skill on the part of the killer and lead to a hook, of which the survivor still has to be downed another two times to be killed. Moris also require the killer to catch the survivor at least once.
Old sabo literally made the game unwinnable for killer, while bnps required no thought, only the ability to press two buttons to end the game. Most of these survivor “nerfs” are just fixes. Outside of MOM, I cannot think of any other survivor perks that have been nerfed (DS was a buff).
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@Orionbash said:
Before you come down on me for the title, hear me out.
The issue with you not winning isn't ruin or gen speed. It never was. It's you. You've just become so accustomed to the failure of survivors (As in you'd get matches where ruin was clutch only because survivors never learned to adapt to ruin) that you've yet to adapt to anything else and try any other strategies. So many killers have complained that ruin was always gone within the first 30 seconds of the match anyway. Killers have also complained that strong, highly co-ordinated SWF could power through ruin so it didn't even matter. So what difference does it make now that it doesn't exist in the same way?
As a survivor main I saw a lot of different killers today. There were killers that seriously struggled and some killers that kicked ass. The killers that struggled are those that got way too involved in the "MUH RUIN!!!!" hysteria that they honestly played the game like they had no chance. Today marks the first day I was facecamped by a Billy that got flustered when two gens popped at the same time and I could honestly not believe it. It was hilarious. But its all in their head. The killers that kicked ass ditched ruin early and started to adapt to new play styles. I had killers like Trapper/Hag set up a 3 gen scenario while getting a few downs in the process. I had a Legion that decided once he was down 3 gens to start slugging to pull all survivors off of gens to buy himself some time. I also had a Tru3Ta1ent wraith that refused to commit and just kept beating on us to keep us off of gens and focus on stabilizing rather than objectives. Among other things. It was those killers that won.
You can complain all you want about your clutch being taken away. But as of right now the robotic motions of patrol gens, find survivor, down survivor, hook survivor, use BBQ to locate next survivor, wash/rinse/repeat, are over. You need to get creative or you'll lose. Period.
Where do i begin....
- you say survivors have been “nerfed” since release, which translates to absurdly broken things like infinites and Mettle being removed. These aren’t nerfs, they are fixes. Killers have continually received nerfs over the past few months.
- as for gen speeds- you do understand that some killers have bad mobility, right? Killers like Michael and pig are not winning matches against competent survivors on farm maps. Even with the best chases, gens are too spread out to protect.
- lastly, you say killers don’t adapt when in reality, survivor crying and unwillingness to adapt caused the recent barrage of killer nerfs. I have adapted to the meta, and I make frequent use of slugging and lame play. The meta change is not going to be fun for anyone
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@TFjawbreaker said:
I recently started playing nurse and I’d like to know the best addons for her post rework. The fatigue reduction seems to almost do nothing as well as the recharge rate. Any tips are appreciated.
Most of her addons are worthless (reworked btw). I think the most optimal build uses one range and one charge addon; two charge addons are redundant imo. The range helps boost her map presence, and the charge helps in chases and also in map control.
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@ad19970 said:
I'm curious to see what people think of the Badham maps. Personally, after playing them often enough, I feel like they still have a few too many safe pallets. There's killer shack, then there are the two safe pallets at the school and at the house with the basement, and then there's the safe pallet upstairs in the house with two floors. All of which have no counterplay for killer.
Some of the other randomly generated pallet loops also still seem big enough to be quite safe for good survivors, making them unmindgameable against optimal survivors. And then there are the car loops which seem to have a fair size, but they have some really weird collision boxes that make them unnecessarily hard to navigate around.
And then there are still some good window loops as well, mainly the one at the fence outside of the school. I personally feel like there are still too many safe loops that survivors can waste a killers time at, considering how fast gens can be repaired without Ruin.
I'm curious what others think though. I don't want the map to have no safe pallets at all, but less than now would probably be nice in my opinion. I do feel like they are some of the more balanced maps though, but without Ruin, it still seems a bit hard to apply enough map pressure and down survivors fast enough to combat gen speed. Of course, this is very killer dependent though.
Badham continues to be one of the worst maps in the game. As others have mentioned, there are way too many safe loops and most versions are too big for killers to be able to defend. At least before the rework, there was only one version of the map. Now there are five, which is just better odds that the killer is going to get a terrible map draw. I can’t say that I am looking forward to future reworks.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1004471#Comment_1004471
I play Myers a lot, I believe is the only killer I actually perform very well (usually getting 3K/4K regularly) and I never use Ruin, as matter of fact I dont even have it unlocked on the bloodwebs I consider it a "bad" perk.
His problem in Rotten Fields is not his lack of pressure, is that corn screws him up BADLY, you cant stalk through it and you cant hide in it like Ghostface or Pig because he is so tall any decent survivor will see his forehead easily and run away, corn alone denies him of 2 of his 3 strengths (being stealthy and gaining EW).
Also you are right that Myers has very little pressure at the beggining, I always play with him with the idea that at least 1 gen will pop before I can hook someone and 2 before I get 2/3 hooks, he makes it up in the late game if you manage to cluster the gens and patrol them close to EW3, if they gen rush they will always leave the last 4 gens in a cluster unless you are making a lot of mistakes defending them.
And what if there isn’t a cluster? On big maps ,the chances are low that there will be a cluster of gens. Even if there are, good survivors will run to the nearest loop once they know you are coming.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1004595#Comment_1004595
You're telling me that it doesn't have to do with you getting good at killer but with gen speed but at the same time you're saying "if I play enough games with, I too could 4k without ruin using any killer", maybe I misunderstood.
Maps can get a look on, but gen speed is not the problem in my opinion and experience
It has much more to do with whether or not you get potato survivors in your lobby. In that case, sure, any killer is viable. But there is nothing most killers can do to maintain a map presence.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1004471#Comment_1004471
1st than anything, you might be basing your argument on the fact that you'll always or most of the times face a 4 men SWF (statistics have been released about that and it's not a fact that it is that common) with toolboxes and maybe with BNPs... It's not usual, you can encounter them, but it's not usual...
About the Myers part (NO RUIN):
Don’t make assumptions, gen rush can happen with competent solo survivors too. I’m not going to even bother watching the video because if I play enough games, I too could 4k without ruin using any killer. That doesn’t prove that gen speeds and/or maps are fine.
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@Carlosylu said:
I might have an unpopular opinion but there's no such thing as "gen rushing" it's called "bad gen pressure byt he killer" or "the killer decided not to hurt everyone he could if they were all on the same gen forcing them to loose time healing".
And about the tunneling, it's just dumb, unless he dared to teabag you... Tunneling is counterable btw
I'm both killer and survivor red ranks, xbox
Some killers have absolutely no way to pressure gens. How is a killer like Michael supposed to do that on rotten fields? The map is too big to traverse and is full of safe structures that are going to add a ton of time to any chase you engage in. Even when you know or suspect that survivors are on a gen, there reaches a certain point where it’s going to get done no matter what since regression is so slow.
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@Almo said:
I'll just repeat that when we say we wish to "reduce frustration" against X, that does not mean "make X easier to play against." Less frustrating is not necessarily easier. Often it means shifting the focus from a mechanic to a strategy.
Notably new Ruin is actually really hard on new Survivors. They have no idea what's happening.
So if new survivors also struggle with old Ruin, what’s the difference? One of the reasons you gave justifying the nerf was that it was unfair to new players. Shouldn’t the take away here be that new players will struggle no matter what?
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@Almo said:
This is why the Gatekeeper emblem was changed with Ruin. In terms of emblem points, it's no longer important to keep 5 gens up the first two minutes to get all those points.
In terms of the game's power curve, it's expected the first couple gens go fast. 4 Survivors, one Killer... several chases to get one Survivor out. But as the number of gens to patrol decreases, it becomes easier for the Killer to patrol, and their power rises. As the Survivors die off, the Killer's power increases more as there are fewer Survivors to work on gens.
Old Ruin gave people who depended on it the idea that it should not require input from the Killer to keep the first couple gens from popping in the first couple minutes. But that is not how we intend the game to work. My apologies for leaving old Ruin in place as long as we did; it was hard to find a good update, and we knew there would be a huge outcry from the players when we did the change, no matter how good it was. The moment I joined the project in August 2018 I knew Ruin was something I wanted to change. It took a lot of time and a lot of discussion with the other designers to find something worthy to replace it.
New Ruin requiring Killers to act in order to get its benefit is by design. Its lack of large impact in the first minutes is by design. Its subtlety is by design (by subtle I mean that one of its large benefits isn't mentioned in the text: no need to spend time kicking gens). Because we recognized Ruin's impact on the Gatekeeper emblem and Killers' ability to pip, we made the alteration to that emblem.
We can easily understand players' frustrations with this deep change to one of their core tools. But the opinion of all of us on the design team is that the new Ruin will make the game healthier overall. Our willingness to stand by it in the face of such anger over the change is an indication of our confidence in the new design and the benefits it will have in the long run.
This change will be fine for some killers, but other are going to be absolutely destroyed. How is EW 1 Michael supposed to do anything early game now? Or Hag? Or Trapper. These characters literally can’t spread pressure in the early game, which is why they needed Ruin. Now they have nothing to help.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982494#Comment_982494
Ok. What does that opinion have to do with the topic at hand?
Well to your point, you said otz faces bad survivors- this makes sense because most survivors suck. As for the thread, this ruin change won’t matter as much for most because they suck anyways. It’s only gonna hurt against good survivors, who are the power role.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
He also seems to play against a lot of bad survivors.
newsflash: most survivors are bad.
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@Zombra808 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/978297#Comment_978297
The one problem I have with this claim, is that you state that a majority of red rank survivors are bad, which would still technically mean that killers are still better than the average player, while also continuing to state that if the killer is a lower rank, the survivor is usually far better because they are red rank and are good. If most red ranks were bad, then the bad matchmaking wouldn't really be far off because red ranks play like purple/yellow ranks, which is the rank of the associated killer.
100% many killers are bad, but my point still stands. When both sides stink, killer usually prevails due to the nature of the game. Playing survivor requires game sense and ALOT of knowledge of maps and loops: this is where the imbalance occurs. Most survivors can't be bothered to learn everything, but those who do will dominate the killer most of the time.This is why low rank matches are even more severely favorable to the killer.
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@Zombra808 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/978253#Comment_978253
I see what you mean, but if kill rates are this high, getting even higher at red ranks, where the best players are supposed to be, wouldn't it take a tremendous amount of "Bad" players to bloat stats this much. After all, the lowest the kill rates drop in all ranks is 55%, meaning even a drop of 10% to ignore "Bad" players, would still be a 45% kill rate, which can be a discussion for buffs.
@Zombra808 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/978253#Comment_978253
I see what you mean, but if kill rates are this high, getting even higher at red ranks, where the best players are supposed to be, wouldn't it take a tremendous amount of "Bad" players to bloat stats this much. After all, the lowest the kill rates drop in all ranks is 55%, meaning even a drop of 10% to ignore "Bad" players, would still be a 45% kill rate, which can be a discussion for buffs.
Most red rank survivors aren't good. Even when they are, the atrocious matchmaking will often pair them with a rank 15-20, which pretty much destroys any chance a competent survivor could have.
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@Zombra808 said:
This may be lengthy, so if you don't want to read the whole thing, skip to the TLDR;. I do recommend you read the entire thing though to hear what I have to say.
I am a Survivor/Killer player, but I mostly play Survivor. I also pay the most attention to stats, rather than feeling/thoughts. Of course, everyone's opinions matter, and of course, the devs should listen to them, but considering the kill rates of all killers, I don't see how Killers are underpowered one bit. I understand that the newest available stats are a couple of months outdated now, but according to the stats, only one killer is below a 50% kill rate, being Nurse.
From my standpoint, I believe that the game should be balanced around the 50% kill rate, 2 kills, 2 escapes. I know others may think that a 75% kill rate, or 66% kill rate is more accurate, which I can see, but a 50/50 split sounds more accurate to balanced than 66/33 or 75/25. I do understand the struggles many Killer players face when going into a game, i.e., gen rush, SWF, or natural disadvantage, but not one killer besides Nurse gets below a 50% kill rate.
You also can't argue that any killers get worse the higher you go because each killer gets an increase to their kill rate, the higher you go within the ranks. Even the Killers that are deemed the worst by the community, ie. Legion, Pig, Leather Face get above a 65% kill rate in red ranks. In all ranks, they get above a 60% kill rate.
The worst Killers in the game according to stats across all ranks would be Nurse, Demogorgon, and Clown, Nurse being an exception because of her extremely high learning curve, although Nurse being underpowered is a topic for another post. Red ranks are the same, although Nurse surpasses both Demogorgon and Clown in kill rates.
To me, it seems like the game should be balanced around a 50% kill rate, giving about a 10% wiggle room for each end, meaning a 40%-60% kill rate being balanced. Although Killer players do voice their opinion of the game being Survivor sided, it seems from stats, that each killer is either overperforming or balanced from a 50% kill rate standard. Even if you look at it from a 66% kill rate, using the same 10% wiggle room, only one killer would be considered underpowered, being Nurse. The only killer at that point that would be regarded as overpowered would be Freddy.
Whether you believe that the game should be balanced around a 50% kill rate, 66% kill rate, or even a 75% kill rate, the stats don't lie. I do agree that we, the community, should address the issues each side face and the irritations we all face. We should make the game more fun for each role, but we must avoid being too biased to one side, and consider balance as well.
For example, gen speed. Some believe that gen speed is too fast, and it should be slowed, but that must also mean that if gen speed is nerfed, survivors would need another buff to compensate. We want to make sure that Killers get the chance to kill survivors, without making the survivor board to death by holding M1, for even longer.
Another example would be boring or annoying killers, i.e., Spirit, Freddy, Legion. We should make the killers less annoying to face to promote fun for survivors, without making the Killers useless and destroying the community that loves playing them.
TLDR; The stats show that no killer is considered underpowered, depending on what your view of balanced. Opinions matter, but isn't the whole answer. The community must work together to come up with alternatives to things each side find annoying, without making one side too powerful. This is only from my own perspective, and everyone has their own. Please tell me your thoughts on things that annoy you, and try to find out how to balance it, without taking a bias to one given side.
As the devs like to say (when it suits their narrative), stats aren't everything. By and large, players in the community are not good at the game- that's why kill rates seem to be so high. Unfortunately, the devs balance around people who don't know how to play the game, which has led to its current state.Good players will absolutely abuse all of the advantages that survivor has over the killer, while bad players will continue to lose.
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@Almo said:
Hi!
Just wanted to address one common concern I've seen from the community. "They nerfed Ruin so it wouldn't be hard for new Survivors."
That's not quite what the intention was. This is subtle, but bear with me.
New Ruin is in fact really brutal for new Survivors... because it is insidious. They have no idea what's happening, and they struggle to get gens done at all. That little zap effect when you take your hands off a gen? Barely noticable to a new player who's panicing because of the L3 Terror Radius they are hearing. It's not even noticable that the gen is regressing twice as fast as if the Killer had damaged it.
What we wanted to do was not "make it easy for new players" but "make it less frustrating for new players". In playtests with newer Survivor players, it was 4k with 4 or 5 gens up almost every time. But they didn't hate their time in the game as much because those red skill checks weren't in their faces.
I'm looking forward to playing on the PTB with some of you tomorrow; see you in the Fog!
New survivors are going to lose no matter what, most of the time. This change is only going to make the game less fun for high rank killers and survivors. I don’t understand the mentality of balancing around bad players. I’ve literally never heard of anyone complaining about Doctor, but the patch notes said he was “frustrating”.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
Honestly imo she is really balanced. Before the nerf she had almost 0 counterplay. Now it just punishes missblinks and I'm ok with this.
I still play nurse and she is imo more balanced than ever. Just harder to learn
You must not play her enough, because the recharge punishes more than missed blinks. The nerf has severely hurt her map control, which means she has to rely more on patrolling, camping, and slugging. She is actually less fun for survivors now imo.
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@Mew said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/952881#Comment_952881
or maybe because... i dont know... veteran dbd players have logged thousands of hours into one game with only one gamemode? its inevitable people are gonna get bored with the game
Veteran swf squads sure as hell don’t get bored
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/951331#Comment_951331
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Nurse players before the nerf, as a whole, were the most boosted group of players I've seen.
Competent survivors fear Competent nurses still. I never feared nurses who weren't good, or were just decent. Those players aren't the reason she was nerfed. But those players are most vocal right now about her nerf, now that it isn't super easy to 4k with her just by learning her a bit.
Competent players don’t fear her anymore. She is now easy bp and a pip.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/949933#Comment_949933
Sorry to say, but that might just mean that you don't actually belong in red ranks, if you are getting abused by survivors there.
Good survivor players fear good killer players. And vice versa..as it should be. Of course some of the terribly designed maps like Haddonfield push the advantage in favor of good survivors, but literally every killer has that problem. That's a map problem, not a "nurse is terrible now" problem (because she isn't).
I don't claim that huntress needs a buff because winning against a sweaty SWF on Haddonfield as Huntress is basically mission impossible. I look at what the real problem is (huge, terrible maps).
You can stay at red ranks indefinitely because there are enough survivors who are absolutely trash to help you stay there. Scrubs will still get bodied by her. Competent survivors now don’t fear her at all because there is built in, foolproof counterplay.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
I heard rumors about dbd in console. I'm a PC player so I dunno if that's true. So PS4 and Xbox players pls answer this question; Is playing killer on console that bad?
If my information is accurate the killer wait times are 2 seconds and the survivor's is 10 minutes (completely opposite from PC BTW) and u have 89% chance to be against swf. Can someone please verify this information? I would appreciate it.
I have switched to PC in the last few months, but I am a former console player. I still play it on ps4 sometimes to play with friends, but I’ll occasionally play some killer- it’s bad. Survivors can much more easily juke the killer because of low sensitivity and inconsistent framerate.
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@gizmo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/948764#Comment_948764
Because stats can really tell you if a killer is good or not. She is low on stats because nobody plays her anymore. Anyone that was good with nurse is still good with her, anyone that was bad with nurse and used omegablink/multiple blinks to compensate every game is now dogshit at her. That's why her kills are low. Not because she is a bad killer, because people refuse to learn her without crutch add ons.
So in other words, we should use gut feelings and intuition over data to determine if she is still good. Got it. I think swf is OP, lets nerf that. Deal?
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/943425#Comment_943425
Survivors have 3 methods to extend chase times: Pallets, windows, and juking. Good survivors will use all 3 methods to extend chases for a very long time, especially against Killers who don't know what they're doing. Good survivors will get a lot of mileage out of windows and jukes before needing to drop the pallet, then using the pallet to reset the chase and move on to the next tile. Bad survivors will have to drop the pallet immediately against even a mediocre killer, and will often be tricked by a simple mindgame into taking an otherwise-avoidable hit.
Nurse takes away 2 out of those 3 methods for survivors to extend chase times and evade the Killer. And once the Nurse player has learned how to counter juking, the survivor's skill becomes almost entirely irrelevant during the chase. The survivor is usually just forced to pray that the Nurse player makes a mistake.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/943431#Comment_943431
It's not really an outplay when the survivor's skill is mostly irrelevant during a chase. God-tier survivors and mediocre survivors will both get hit all the same against a god-tier Nurse.
Killers should have powers that reduce chase times and make looping more difficult, but they shouldn't force the Survivor to play a guessing game that renders their skill mostly irrelevant. Otherwise, why would anyone play as a Survivor?
There isn’t such a thing as “countering” juking. It’s literally a guess. Survivors want something that shuts her down every time, which is why m1 killers suck.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/943365#Comment_943365
Well, I think it's far more likely that the Killer mains were simply intelligent enough to see Nurse's game-breaking power for what it was. And it's not hard to see why they're right.
High-ranking Killer mains already know how to counter juking. They can accurately predict where survivors will go, and how they'll attempt to juke a hit. So when Nurse can nullify all of a survivor's defenses except for juking, it was inevitable that she'd rise to become the best Killer in the game.
That’s a blow up of the game though. How many structures force m1 killers to waste time and break the pallet? Nurse just evens it out and makes the survivor have to outplay you. Survivors don’t like her because their go to autopilot mode doesn’t work. They have to think against her.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/943290#Comment_943290
You realize that some of the highest-ranking Killer mains agreed that Nurse lacks counterplay? Good Nurse players can accurately predict where you are and where you will go most of the time. And even if they don't guess correctly the first time, you'd only have a few seconds before they're ready to blink again, and they're not going to fall for the same trick twice.
To paraphrase one such Nurse player: "A decent Nurse main has counterplay. A great Nurse main doesn't."
EDIT: Actually, here's the full quote: "Survivors can beat a bad Nurse almost every time. Survivors can beat a mediocre Nurse almost every time. Survivors can generally beat a good Nurse. Survivors will never beat a god Nurse".
I am myself a good Nurse player and main of the character. Personally, I think other killer mains have been bullied into saying she is broken. Even if they haven’t, they’re wrong.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/942926#Comment_942926
To be honest, I don't see a way to make Nurse's kit work without giving her a completely different power. At its core, her power involves bypassing all of a survivor's normal defenses and ending chases instantly. Fundamentally, her power is near-impossible to balance. The devs didn't have much to work with.
This is a false narrative that people always spout on here. Just because she can’t be looped conventionally doesn’t mean the survivors have no defense. You play against Nurse differently, both by breaking line of sight and making her guess on if you will keep running or come back at her.
Nurse has counterplay, survivors refuse to learn
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@Almo said:
We don't respond with reflex reactions often at all. The upcoming Doctor update has been in the works for months. :)
That’s supposed to give us hope? The Nurse was in the works for months and is almost universally agreed to be a disaster. She probably has the worst set of add ons in the game, and that’s after bhvr had time to remake them. Forgive us for being skeptical.