woundcowboy

@th3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1206944#Comment_1206944
If it has then I haven’t noticed from October which is when I started playing. Get your facts straight before coming at me.

My facts are straight, yours are not. Don't post unless you know for sure. The game didn't start when you started playing.

in Haddonfield is survivor sided Comment by woundcowboy April 10, 2020

@th3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1206628#Comment_1206628
The Saw map never received any update, if it has then I haven't noticed since October. By my estimation the only pallets that are truly safe are the two outside basement and one that may spawn under the stairs which is a one way. As for too many pallets, I always have fun mindgaming those. However, the claim that "The Game" map is survivor sided like the Original Poster claims is just pure bait or driven by a bad experience on there.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1206630#Comment_1206630
The fact that you didn't decide to respond to my post about why I don't think the Saw map "The Game" is survivor sided says a lot about how a majority of the people on these forums will just attempt to bait and troll. Or shitpost which is what this is.
If you want to make it about experience then fine. Perhaps you could actually post something worthwhile about why in your experience you think my points are wrong. But if not then its typical of you I guess.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1206634#Comment_1206634
It's very easy to locate people, and if a gen has progress but no scratch marks and you are 99% sure someone is nearby chances are they are behind the wall. I find it easier than some other maps when I can tell survivors were just working on the gen.
As for pallets, the only three that I always want out of the way are the two outside basement (unless the bathroom gen is done) and one under the stairs that have a platform and go up to another safe pallet which I normally force them to waste.
This surely won't help but what survivor ranks do you face most commonly?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1206635#Comment_1206635
I'm not saying Haddonfield isn't survivor sided, but "the game" (SAW MAP) is anything but.

You are factually wrong.... the game was updated ages ago.

in Haddonfield is survivor sided Comment by woundcowboy April 10, 2020

@th3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1206588#Comment_1206588
If you could kindly explain why "The Game" is survivor sided that would be fantastic. bud :)

You are thinking back to how the game used to be. It used to be killer sided for sure, but after whiny survivors complained, the devs added a boatload of pallets. While i think a killer like Nurse still does well, most m1 killers have too many safe pallets to deal with.

in Haddonfield is survivor sided Comment by woundcowboy April 10, 2020

@Haku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191648#Comment_1191648
What. No. Lery is now much more even. Survivors have much more to work with in terms on pallets/loops while the killers still have all the indoors advantages - survivors not being able to see gens, other people, the killer himself, where loops are, totems. Badham has versions that are survivor sided and versions that are killer sided

No chance. A ton of safe pallets were added and now it is harder to see survivors. Hooks were also spread out. This map was already bad for killers like Nurse and Huntresss, and now it is even worse. As far as badham goes, all variants have at least 3 major safe spots.

in Question Regarding God Loops/"Infinites" Comment by woundcowboy April 5, 2020

@Sheldor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191393#Comment_1191393
LMAO. Whenever I play killer and don't get a super organized 4-SWF team I basically break no sweat whatsoever achieving a 4k win, independent of wether I camp or not. The game is anything but exclusively survivor sided. Playing killer is ridiculously easy and it is getting easier with every new patch released.

Yea, shocker: most survivors are bad at the game. The game should be balanced around people who are good.

in The iron works infinte is getting removed!!! Comment by woundcowboy April 4, 2020

@designator said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191446#Comment_1191446
Arguable the most skilled thing kill can learn is time management. Learning who to chase and where is the difference between a a good killer and a great killer. I have seen many 4ks on Iron Works as a survivor because the killer knew not to chase people through the God window. If a person just humps the God window all game, they aren't doing Gens except maybe the one that spawns in the Iron Works. It's better to go catch someone in a bad position rather than chase through a strong loop. Also people seem to forget that Iron Works is a LONG loop. If I'm running an exhaustion perk I can maybe squeeze two loops out of it running the right way because of how long it is. Iron Works is strong when survivors know how to string it together with pallets and other structures, which takes skill.

Abusing safe pallets doesn’t take skill. Your argument is also flawed: if there are multiple gens near the iron works, there is literally nothing an m1 killer can do. If you hit a survivor off of the gen, they will then use their speed burst to run to the God loop. If the killer pursues, the gens are lost; if he/she doesn’t, then he/she never gets a hook. This is also super obvious with the middle building on asylum. God loops are broken design.

in Question Regarding God Loops/"Infinites" Comment by woundcowboy April 3, 2020

@designator said:
Ok cool let's rework maps to reward killers that don't understand how to effectively use their power or know when to abandon chases. Maps should have relatively stronger and relatively weaker locations. Especially when windows like that are often near the basement. But I guess let's pander to the vocal killer mains on this forurm. The funny thing is map like Hawkins and Lery's are FAR more killer sided than Iron Works is survivor sided (Didn't even make top three) yet we don't hear anything about those being reworked. I especially love the new pallets on maps like saloon where the killer can "mindgame" by strafing back and forth and get a hit in three seconds.

I guess you don’t pay attention. The last two maps that have been reworked are now HEAVILY survivor-sided (leary’s and badham). Even if the ironworks becomes killer sided, the number of survivor-sided maps is laughably high.

in Question Regarding God Loops/"Infinites" Comment by woundcowboy April 3, 2020

@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191311#Comment_1191311
You can't, and never will please both sides, and even within those sides, there's split opinions on certain things, it's not that they don't understand it's just that any change is going to annoy some people regardless, there will never be a change that everyone unanimously agrees on.

I'm not talking about what does and does not irritate people. I am saying that the game is clearly survivor-sided and that the devs can't see it. The vast majority of changes supports that theory.

in The iron works infinte is getting removed!!! Comment by woundcowboy April 3, 2020

@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191073#Comment_1191073
Because despite this change, in a few months they'll change something on the killer side that won't favour them and we'll be back to "Devs hate killers".

Devs don’t hate killers, they just don’t understand their game.

in The iron works infinte is getting removed!!! Comment by woundcowboy April 3, 2020

@forthelulz said:
lol @ "god loops"
Even average killers have little to no issue with any of these, but ok help out the baby killers even more
Thumbs up BHVR

??

Literally every killer agrees that the god loops have to go. Do you play this game?

in The iron works infinte is getting removed!!! Comment by woundcowboy April 3, 2020

@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179069#Comment_1179069
Dude, I feel you. I know she's not fun to play now.
But tell me a better solution than this. The devs clearly think she was out of line and her old kit is NOT coming back. How do you make her fun again WITHOUT buffing her, besides just downright reworking her from the ground up?

Well I personally think the basekit was fine, so we'll agree to disagree. If they were to change something, they could keep the recharge and remove the fatigue.

in Fix Nurse, please? Comment by woundcowboy March 26, 2020

@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179047#Comment_1179047
I wish you could show me that footage because I don't think I've ever seen anything less than a 3k by a competent Nurse player with basekit before the rework.
That's the effect of her being very hard to play. Even people who play her a lot can be less than great with her. That's true for every high skill cap/skill expression character in any pvp game. She's not for everyone, nor should she be. And being that hard to play is generally tied to being possible to mess up with, even if you're good. Still, her old kit required you to make MULTIPLE mistakes to even come close to losing. She's more punishing when you mess up now, which again, is only fair.

You don't get it.... The new Nurse is not that heavily impacted in the chase: she is probably still the best in the game at ending chases. The nerfs seriously impacted her map control and mobility, which is not at all tied to skill but is artificially limited. The changes make her unfun because they pretty much force to play lame and slug/camp/tunnel because she has no hope of reaching the other end of the map in time. The changes were not fun or fair.

in Fix Nurse, please? Comment by woundcowboy March 26, 2020

@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1178968#Comment_1178968
I barely even play survivor but nice try sweetheart
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1178956#Comment_1178956
I mean, you can always watch VODs of high level Nurse streamers decimating every single game with her basekit nonstop. You can always do some research on other games and realize that a character with a high skill cap being as powerful as she was at every single skill bracket was unnacceptable. And your argument loses every single ounce of credibility when you say the devs don't want a killer to be strong when Spirit barely got a slap in the wrist and still is monstruous, Oni got his flick partially back and is still very strong, Freddy is strong while being disgustingly easy to play, and those are all recent releases. There's a difference between "strong" and "catastrophically overpowered in the right hands". If all you got is "well, malding killer mains will disagree with you and devs bad" then what's even the point to this conversation? And I mean this honestly, not as flame.
Everybody that's reasonable will agree that this game is survivor sided at a high level. But people suddenly stop being reasonable every time a killer gets slighly changed (even if it turns out to be a buff in the long run, like the Freddy rework). Let's please stop pretending the devs hate killer mains or whatever. If that was the case the game would still be the exact same it was years ago.

I have watched many hours of Nurse footage and am a Nurse main myself. I saw plenty of games in which people like Marth and True lost with basekit Nurse. I can't speak for others, but I think the reason that the devs come off as survivor sided is because they don't know the game and think that it is balanced.

in Fix Nurse, please? Comment by woundcowboy March 26, 2020

@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1178879#Comment_1178879
Since you don't want to have a reasonable conversation and apparently loves to throw everything into the "us vs them" dynamic I think I'm done here. Bye.

You gave no evidence as to why her base kit was “busted” before; you are in a clear minority on that. Your point about Nurse “not being done today” just shows that the devs don’t want a killer to be strong.

in Fix Nurse, please? Comment by woundcowboy March 26, 2020

@BeHasU said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1175972#Comment_1175972
How is DS better now? Then you could use your DS or save it everytime you will get picked up. If you weren't downed the whole game, obv not hooked and you would get down in front of the open exit gates you could just DS the killer and escape. How's this version of DS better?

It had counterplay before (juggle them and/or bring enduring to reduce the stun) but now, you must leave them on the floor and lose gens, or eat the full stun.

in What are Your Dead by Daylight Unpopular Opinions and Hot Takes? Comment by woundcowboy March 26, 2020

* Dedicated servers were a huge mistake that happened because of entitled survivor mains.

* Decisive strike is better now than before it was “nerfed”.

* The devs aren’t “survivor sided” in the sense that they just like survivors more; they don’t know their game and think it is more balanced than it is.

Hope those were hot enough.

in What are Your Dead by Daylight Unpopular Opinions and Hot Takes? Comment by woundcowboy March 25, 2020

@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1170534#Comment_1170534
How is it an easy escape? 1 is dead, you are saying a couple are on death hook. They have done 4 gens. How was that an easy escape?
I don't understand when killers moan everyone went through the hatch either and it being an "easy win" they have done all the gens, all they have skipped is the opening door. They were more than likely out anyway. Move on to your next game, nothing to see here.

My problem is when they still have a gen left and 2 or 3 get out with hatch. That isn’t fair.

in Keys make me want to stop playing killer Comment by woundcowboy March 21, 2020

@Galklife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1159506#Comment_1159506
"counterproductive and useless" you can call almost every fun perk/add on xd head on, pebble, OG dev hope 1, etc
why ppl thinks all add ons needs to be boring and straight buff xd
im maining pig and wraith atm, pigs addons except 4 that are supporting crouch, +1 trap, green +1 box, purple for box and timer (are imo too op and i almost never use them because i get natural head pops sometimes anyway) other than those 8 add ons other are just bad (status effects on that makes you want to tunnel trap xd, or 1% more skillchecks, or faster putting traps if you ever needed that, and ruleset that makes ppl wants to do gens xdd)
and lets be honest nurse doesnt need add ons (even those for recharge) shes still strongest killer (if you know how to play her) + what kind of strong add ons you want? +blink? lul you have your red add on, + new omegablink? lul (btw you still have range add ons but not as op) post blink fatigue? its till there, i almost never saw nurse with other add ons before nerf (it was always no add ons nurse or range/+blink nurse), so its not like they took any addons that were used

If you think she doesn’t need addons currently, there isn’t much else to say. If you read my first post, you would see that I said that while pig’s weren’t all buffs, they can change her gameplay in an interesting way (amanda’s letter, the one that hides boxes).

And no, becoming weaker with no upside is not fun. Nurse’s addons should do things like make her teleport faster, or help her track (no, the 30 second ghetto Nurse’s doesn’t count).

in Why are nearly half of Nurse's addons just so incredibly bad? Comment by woundcowboy March 15, 2020

@Galklife said:
because its nurse and still ignores every single game mechanic? and dont need much help?
basekit rework was unwanted but add on rework was needed for those ppl that were playing almost only omegablink nurse and 3 blink nurse,
and you want to talk about bad add ons?? check pigs add ons
boring add ons?? check freddy (just example)
repeatable add ons?? check wraith/freddy (just example)
nurses add ons that you mentioned arent boring or just copy paste with small % increase xd
so youre telling me add ons that change your gameplay are bad? how????? so youre telling me mirror on myers is bad?? but its funny xd
not every fun thing has to make you stronger xd, if you want strong add ons there are couple and from your post i guess you would use only those strongest so why would you need more add ons that you wouldnt use because they wouldve been weaker and boring???

As someone who mains Nurse and used to main Pig, I can tell you without a doubt that Pig’s addons are stronger. Nurse has two addon types that are viable: range and blink recharge. Pig’s are almost all serviceable, with the exception of the addons that cause more skillchecks. Pig’s addons straight up buff or slightly modify her playstyle, while most of Nurse’s are counterproductive and useless. There is no comparison.

in Why are nearly half of Nurse's addons just so incredibly bad? Comment by woundcowboy March 15, 2020

@BigBrainMegMain said:
Slap on STBFL that's available on the Shrine and it's gg.
Quit complaining, he's a good killer.

No, he’s definitely not.

in What were the devs even thinking with this patch Comment by woundcowboy March 12, 2020

@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1152340#Comment_1152340
I don't think you understand really, I'm not saying the game is balanced, but these tru3 videos always get posted on the forums every time he posts them on his youtube, and they all end the same 3/4Ks, we shouldn't be balancing the game around these extremely rare occurrences.

YES, we absolutely should balance around games like this. Also, True usually only posts matches that he wins; you have to view the VODs in order to get better data.

Anyways, the argument that the game should be balanced around average players doesn't hold water. A rank 15, super casual player is not going to get different results if something like dstrike or adrenaline were nerfed; this will only affect skilled players. I struggle to think of many games that balance around the lower skill player bases, so why should DBD be any different?

Lastly- and this has been said- the reason more people didn't escape in that posted match is because the survivors chose to extend the game- they could have left whenever.

in Another prime example why gen speed complaints aren't excuses. Comment by woundcowboy March 12, 2020

@Almo said:
I promise the reason for the rework was not to make people stop playing her.

And yet you have done nothing to fix her game breaking bugs that make it impossible to move or blink.

in Unpopular opinion: the entire goal of the nurse rework was to make people stop playing her Comment by woundcowboy March 9, 2020

@gibblywibblywoo said:
If this is your main problem there are multitude of solid perks to help with this. Disrespect pallet drops and try to trade with enduring. Add spirit fury and get a down off one poorly rhought out pallet drop.
If the pallet is unsafe or has LOS blockers try to mindgame or fake them out with your red stain.

None of this works if the survivor just decides to drop the pallet (except on really unsafe loops like on Hawkins). Looping is the cherry on top of the sundae; it is not needed. If you have competent teammates who do gens then slamming pallets is a viable strategy. If you don't have competent teammates, then you will lose anyways. Basically, there is no downside to burning through pallets, especially on pallet dense maps like the farms or the game.

If you can't see how obvious this is, than you either don't play killer enough or you have been misled by bad teammates who don't do gens.

in If survivors just throw down pallets... Comment by woundcowboy March 7, 2020

I think the main structure should be fixed, but there are other, much worse maps (haddonfield, farm maps, ormond, badham...). Just be thankful they were changed at all; swamp maps used to be huge.

in Why does nobody talk about how bad Grim Pantry Is? Comment by woundcowboy February 26, 2020

@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1100883#Comment_1100883
Can you even hear whispers with the plagues whispers being so loud?

You use the perk icon; whisper sounds don’t help at all.

in New meta against Plague Comment by woundcowboy February 17, 2020

@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
Now, before you grab your pitchforks, I'm not calling Plague overpowered. I don't think anyone in their right mind would ever call Plague anything other than low-to-mid C tier on her absolute best days. But being a weak Killer does not excuse the fact that Plague is, frankly, one of the worst power designs in the entire game—and this upcoming change puts a major highlight on that, I feel.
Here's the issue I have with Plague. If she vomits on you and you get sick, it doesn't really do much. Surviving while sick is hardly different from surviving while normally injured, with the exception that you can neither heal nor be stealthy—
And there's my problem. Being sick all but removes two mechanics from the game. You literally CANNOT heal by conventional means against a Plague, and stealth is just about deleted because no matter what you do, you will be constantly broadcasting your location to her if you try to sneak around her, and you leave a trail of infected objects if you try to sneak away from her. Urban Evasion, Iron Will, Quick and Quiet, Fixated, literally any healing Perk in the entire game—these are all Perks that are, no exaggeration, completely useless against the Plague.
Of course, the meta is looping and you can easily loop while injured. But there are plenty of players who DON'T like the meta. They like to be stealthy. They like to heal themselves and others. They like to explore different avenues of play that aren't just "me run around pallet, me rush gen with adrenaline". But if they just so happen to go against a Plague? Too bad, buckaroo, your build and playstyle literally do not exist anymore.
This is what makes Plague so unfun to go against for me, and is why I think she's badly designed. She encourages the boring, overpowered Survivor meta because two of the most popular off-meta playstyles are completely disabled against her. It's not strong at all, because they're off-meta playstyles, but she just... she just disables them. Completely disables them.
And if you want it back? If you want the opportunity to heal? If you want to be stealthy? Well, then you have to give her one of the strongest, most braindead anti-loop abilities in the entire game, and even then she can take away all of your stealth and healing again with the mere press of the M2 button in your general direction.
I think that this is a terrible set of decisions. You either sacrifice your off-meta build in exchange for making Plague the most M1 Killer in the entire game, or you take back your off-meta build for a fleeting instance in exchange for temporarily making her one of the strongest chasers in the entire game. The imbalance between choosing to be sick or choosing to give Plague her Corrupt Purge is so poorly weighted, and neither option is anything short of infuriatingly annoying. You should never cleanse against a Plague because she is a pathetic, sobbing mess of a Killer without Corrupt Purge, but then you have two entire game mechanics literally deleted from the game for the rest of the match. It's no fun for anyone involved.
And then to top it all off, with the upcoming change that gives Plague a basekit pool already corrupted, you don't even get to make that choice until she's already expunged her Corrupt Purge. No strategy involved on your part. No good to come out of your actions. You either keep your healing and stealth and give Plague her bastardized lovechild of Huntress and Bubba, or you get rid of your healing and stealth... and give Plague her bastardized lovechild of Huntress and Bubba. Every single choice is a terrible one.
I think this new change is a perfect example of Plague's terrible game design. Survivors were given a choice of what to do against her, and the choice was always terribly obvious because one option made Plague insanely strong while the other made her insanely weak. But in exchange for making her weak, genrushing without healing and hugging loops all game goes from the M.E.T.A., the most effective tactic available to the O.E.T.A., the only effective tactic available. Now, with this upcoming change, until Plague uses her Corrupt, that choice is made for them. Whether or not they choose to turn the M.E.T.A. into the O.E.T.A., they still have to deal with that braindead chase power, even if only once in the match—and with the right build (pronounced "Infectious Fright"), that one time could be all the Plague needs.
In short: I think the Plague is terribly designed and in dire need of a rework, if not to her power, then to the effects of the different types of vomit, and this new change exemplifies that. I think being sick should be significantly more of a threat than just removing two non-meta playstyles from the game, and Corrupt shouldn't be nearly as strong as it is. The two should be more in-line with each other in terms of how powerful they are so that the decision of whether or not to cleanse isn't so painfully and utterly obvious as it is right now, but at the same time, the Plague shouldn't be given the opportunity to almost break the game for people who don't like to sweat the meta with a mere press of the M2 button. Being sick should do something like directly affect your ability to loop with something like slower vaulting speed or making it more difficult to move in a straight line while running, or hamper your ability to do the objective with substantially difficult skill checks or something of the sort. Something the meta actually gives one about. Meanwhile, Corrupt shouldn't be nearly as powerful and cheesy as it is. The range and amount of the vomit should be cut back to a point where it gives Plague an edge in loops rather than an iron fist. She should be able to punish people for messing up loops with it, not able to punish people for being in her line-of-sight.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

I don’t understand why people think her power is OP. You literally just do what people do against Oni: play safe and stealthy while she has it and then it’s gone.

in I don't like the sound of the upcoming Plague changes. Comment by woundcowboy February 17, 2020

@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1098829#Comment_1098829
If they use it when they are not in range of you, it would be unlikely you would hit them in the first place.

I have had it happen plenty of times: i’m a little behind, the pallet is front and they are able to create the distance so i don’t catch up.

in Dead hard is potentially the most broken exhaustion perk Comment by woundcowboy February 17, 2020

@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1098829#Comment_1098829
If they use it when they are not in range of you, it would be unlikely you would hit them in the first place.

I have had it happen plenty of times: i’m a little behind, the pallet is front and they are able to create the distance so i don’t catch up.

in Dead hard is potentially the most broken exhaustion perk Comment by woundcowboy February 17, 2020

@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1098651#Comment_1098651
Swing earlier, that's what I do.

They use it when you’re not in range. The only time you can bait it is if you are close.

in Dead hard is potentially the most broken exhaustion perk Comment by woundcowboy February 16, 2020

@Pulsar said:
I think it is completely fair. If a Survivor uses it skillfully, they get a big reward. If they use it out of panic, they get mega-punished.
On the Killer side, I feel like I can bait it out and if I swing and they Dead Hard, I don't feel cheated. I feel like, yeah, that was on me, good play.

There’s no skill in using it to make up distance and reach a pallet. There’s literally nothing the killer can do.

in Dead hard is potentially the most broken exhaustion perk Comment by woundcowboy February 16, 2020

@gatsby said:
No ED doesn't have that much counter-play because of the random nature of the totem spawns. There might be 20+ possible totem spawns on the map, some are easy, some are hard, some are common, others more rare.
Nancy was my first survivor I leveled up and I've always run Inner Strength. Trust me I'm a good totem hunter, but in my almost 200 hours played I don't even think I've seen all the totem spawns in game yet. I know where to look and usually cleanse two to three totems per match, but every once and awhile I get a game where I can't even find one for the life of me because teammates cleanse the easy ones and there's like 1 or 2 super hard ones left. (Lerys, Hawkins and the Game are a nightmare sometimes).
You really shouldn't expect survivors to know the totem spawns on every map, every time. It's not realistic and it's not intuitive. Also, it always has a randomness factor, because you could get an easy map with easy spawns or a hard map with hard spawns. And the killer has no control over what they get.

Sorry old sport ;) , you can find totems by simply walking around the map and doing gens.

in No ED doesn't have realistic counterplay Comment by woundcowboy February 15, 2020

@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1096015#Comment_1096015
@woundcowboy
When people speak about "countering" DS, they mean the stun. Not the possible scenarios to be avoided or objectives to be prevented from getting done.
Counter to old Ruin was hit the great skillcheck.
I don't see the 'flawed logic' just because it indirectly impacts other objectives.

The perk massively affects the game, regardless of whether the slug is picked up or not. Even if the killer waits out the timer, the survivor bought time for the team and ultimately allows that same downed survivor a better chance at escaping. Your perspective is too narrow: getting stunned is not what makes DS effective (by itself).