woundcowboy
woundcowboy
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722732#Comment_3722732
And that's the big problem. Currently in game it's far more difficult for survivors to deal with tunneling, than it is for killers to tunnel.
Tunnelling isn't an auto-win of course, and targeting a good looper can punish it well, but a killer tunnelling a mediocre/bad looper (which most players are, including myself) is pretty easy, and the other three survivors have a really hard time doing much to protect their teammates.
I'd go so far to argue that's there really isn't much you can do. If the target is a bad looper then bodyblocking isn't going to buy them much time, and is only going to waste time away from gens. You could bring a sabo build but on many maps the killer can just walk to another hook. You can try and provoke the killer to chase you instead by flashlighting and teabagging but… when does that ever work? A tunnelling killer is gonna tunnel.
At the same time if they're a bad looper, do they deserve to stay in the game?
i’ll answer your last question: no. Furthermore, survivor is a team-based role, and your team does in fact deserve to lose if they aren’t on the same level as the killer.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716913#Comment_3716913
I think alot of people forget that killer's gameplay is a loops of action: Find a survivor or Gen - Kick Gen - Chase and hit once - Chase and hit twice - Hook. Then repeat. Thats why their challenges are really easy to be done. Kick 5 Gens, they will get it by playing normally, same to chase for 180sec, hit 6 survivors.
Survivor on the other hand, if you have "heal 3 times" or "do 1 Gen" challenge and killer tunnel you. Good luck on the next match.
Full explaining, I just want to say getting a hook, a down, a Gen kick is literally play the game normally. The only action that break the flow from the loops of action is open a locker, which is also easy.
If getting a hook is that hard to earn, questioning about killer's skill rather than the perk.
Getting a down is the skilled part of the game though. To me, saying something “is just part of the game” is a kind of a toxic mentality. You’re basically saying that the skilled part of the game doesn’t really take skill. Downs are earned.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716924#Comment_3716924
Well, that brings things back to my previous point, which is that it's not JUST how easy it is to get. It's the ratio of strength and ease of use, probably combined with pickrate and overall community sentiment for good measure.
Plus, DS is being nerfed. DS is being nerfed in the exact same patch that Pop is being nerfed in. You literally can't use it as an example of a perk being overlooked despite fitting the criteria because it's not being overlooked.
Still, saying it’s “easy” should not have been part of the justification. And as other people are saying in hear, there are countless perks that give you value for no effort, such as windows and sprint burst.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716915#Comment_3716915
Referring to being hooked as "failing" is stretching it a little bit, but might be strictly accurate. Referring to being tunnelled as failing is definitely just wrong, there's a reason people do it and it's because it's difficult to punish if you aren't exceptionally skilled.
As you might imagine, starting a chase on an extreme back foot makes it far more likely for you to be caught.
Even still, my point still stands: Pop is being nerfed because it’s too easy to get, meanwhile perks like DS and unbreakable reward you for losing a chase, and generally existing.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716894#Comment_3716894
Presumably because of the other half of the statement, which is how effective it is in conjunction with how easy it is. Also because it's one of the top picked perks on top of being very effective + easy to activate, I'd assume.
Also, not the point, but DS is being NERFED and the survivor isn't failing at anything by being tunnelled.
They failed once when the killer caught them in the chase, then they failed again after being caught off the hook. In fact, you might even say it’s 3 times since basekit BT is a thing. The goal of an individual survivor is to do gens and not get caught. Getting caught means they were outplayed.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716894#Comment_3716894
….Decisive is being buffed by going from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.
Huh, imagine that.
It was buffed to 5 after being at 3 for a long time. That’s what I’m referring to.
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@jesterkind said:
I'm pretty sure they meant that it's easy to use when it comes to what you're doing specifically because of the perk.
Yes, you have to invest time and skill into getting a hook, but you're doing that anyway. The unique thing you're doing to activate Pop is going and kicking a generator within 45 seconds of the hook after you get it, and that is easy. How often do you have Pop available but fail to activate it? Sometimes, but not frequently, right?
This, too, is not addressing whether or not it warrants a nerf, to be clear.
By that logic, why are there so many perks that are “easy” and not being addressed? Hell, decisive is being buffed and the condition for that perk is the survivor failing twice.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
do you qualify getting hooks as hard?
Yes. It’s a pvp game. Again, there are plenty of cases in which clueless players hand it to you, but the core gameplay is chasing the survivors
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716333#Comment_3716333
I have 3 other teammates helping me complete my objective as well.
I'm really glad you have team mates like that! Gives me hope for the game. PLease send them to me as I do NOT get those. I am alone, I feel alone, and I usually die alone. While they dance in the gates, rather do bones or chests, or even remain in that locker all game.
Experiences differ. Vastly apparently. But we are not the same. Even objectively, sometimes I wonder if the killer bribed my team or something. Ill try to record a few and toss some up here.The problem is, the game can’t be balanced that way. The killer should have a significant advantage against an individual survivor since it is a 1v4.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716203#Comment_3716203
It is quite rampant here. It's why it's hard to have an honest conversation on balance.
If you're a survivor and complain about (x), oh it's just because you're bad and need to get better.
If you're a killer and complain about (x), oh it's just because you're bad and need to get better.
This would be alleviated a lot if we can see our MMR. Then we could at least see we are going against the higher level so my skill is there or oh I am low MMR I probably do have a lot to improve on. However when everything is hidden it's all just conjecture.
Visible mmr would be great. It would shut down so many people who tell others to get better.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716320#Comment_3716320
not true. Just because they aren’t sweaty comp players doesn’t make them terrible. This is a video game not a competition for a prize. Also Scott plays a lot of killer. He is mainly know for that.
to me at least it just seems that whoever isn’t 100% killer biased, is viewed as a survivor main or survivor biased in your eyes.I play survivor too. The vast majority of killer wins happen because of survivors not doing gens and getting downed in 15 seconds
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716269#Comment_3716269
no he said the game should be balanced around the average player
And the average player is terrible at this game.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715125#Comment_3715125
Trickle down balance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw
Imagine a scenario for DBD, where we see killer shack for example.
Killer shack, is one of the strongest structures in the game for survivors. At a high level, a good survivor pretty much can waste a solid 30-40 seconds or more of a killers time just at this single structure, let alone when it is connected to things. But at a low level, what happens? The survivor predrops the pallet the wrong way, gets hit anyway, and now the pallet is gone.
What happens if they nerf this structure? Does it hurt the low level player? No, it does not, because the low level player was not exploiting this structure to its fullest extent anyway. But it does "hurt" the high level player, by bringing the structure more in line.
The same could be said for nurse. If you nerf nurse, you aren't going to hurt the low level killer players, because they already aren't exploiting nurse to her fullest potential, so they aren't going to change anything. But it will hurt the high level nurse players.
I wish I could like this post again. People here seem to just accept that you can’t balance around all levels of play, and that really isn’t true.
Decisive strike is a perfect example of this: low level players didn’t get value out of it because they don’t know tiles or looping, and this will continue to be true with the buffed version. The only net effect is that high level players will be able to abuse it even more now. That’s why you balance around high level play. If they added more pallets to maps, clueless survivors would still be downed in 15 seconds.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714988#Comment_3714988
how is Scott jund biased toward survivor players?
He thinks the game should be balanced around bad survivor play.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715358#Comment_3715358
No, you go there to chase, because you already have a survivor on the hook and that means someone else goes for the save, dragging three survivors off generators.
Yes, that's not permanent, but that's where skill in chase comes in. Get that down quickly and you can start the cycle again, all while survivors only had a few moments to get any real efficiency going. That's what good killer play looks like, when you're not circumventing skill expression by tunnelling or trying to stall out the game with a 3-gen.
This obviously changes if the survivors aren't on generators to begin with so they can get an insta-save, but that's the situation we're looking at right now.
Also, what you're describing isn't objective defence. Your objective is the survivors and you're leaving most of them to do whatever they want.
That isn’t true. If you are defending an area of the map, you are also pressuring the survivors because they are forced to come to you to hurt your gen spread.
I also don’t think skill expression matters as much as it should in this game. The best player in the world can’t do anything about predropping/prerunning (outside of like two killers.) Like with Huntress or slinger, it doesn’t always matter how good you are aiming because high walls and debris can prevent you from taking a shot in the first place.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715325#Comment_3715325
Why would you kick the gen when the entire reason you're going over there is to start a chase, though?
Gens aren't your objective. Survivors are.
Ok, so then maybe you get a hit. That’s one health state, meanwhile they gain distance and if you chase, the other survivors are doing gens. And no I disagree: protecting gens is better than going for a lot of chases, especially if you’re playing anyone other than Nurse. There are too many resources on most maps that draw out the chase.
That’s the core problem with dbd and most asyms that I play: if you want to win, you are playing objective defense. These games are always sold as a scary killer hunting survivors, when in reality objective defense is more important.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715256#Comment_3715256
There's a difference between Azarov's actively punishing you for not 3-genning via terrible layout and other maps just having 3-gens you could defend if you wanted to.
As to everything else, you're missing that every single step of that is a time investment and it's not like you're standing still during it. If you truly can get fast downs, and I'll believe you that you can, then surely the chase you're in is gonna be close to over by the time someone's stopped repairing, run over, saved, got the heal done, and run back to their generator?
This is of course assuming that they were on generators because that's the situation you presented me. If they're not, and you know they're not, of course you'd engage whoever was lurking nearby in a chase. The ideal situation for you is to pull someone off generators to save, which means you would occupy whoever you see not on generators to force it.
It depends how far away I am when I get the down. Even if I’m not on the opposite end of the map, it still takes time to get back, and it’s not like survivors lose much when I do return. Kicking the gen provides laughable regression and allows them to gain distance since I’m locked in animation. They also can undo the regression in a few seconds, which AGAIN, incentivizes me to stay near the gen/area to prevent that from happening.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715191#Comment_3715191
You're stacking this situation heavily by putting it on Azarov's, that's a terribly designed map where you win if you 3-gen and lose if you try anything else.
Assuming a different map, hell, any of the other maps in that realm, we can start talking about things. The next thing to address is that you're also stacking the situation by assuming you have to walk all the way to the other end of the map, which may be the case, but it's a pretty bad situation for you no matter what you do.
Assuming we split the difference there and they're just a moderate walk away, yeah, going for them is much better. If you stay, the survivor you know is on generators is just gonna stick on that generator, as will their two friends until one peels away for the save. It is absolutely in your favour to occupy three survivors instead of one because we're assuming we're going against good teams here- the kind that will maximise the value they can get from you camping that hook and not interrupting their repair.
If they're pounding gens, you're gonna want to actually stop them from doing that. You have less leeway to do anything else because they're not goofing around giving you time to do the same.
Azarov’s is the best example, but this is true on every map. There are always clusters of gens that are easier to defend than the rest of the map.
You occupy the other two survivors for a few seconds until the save happens. The pressure is then gone. This is especially bad if the survivor is staking out the hook and you walk away, and they instantly save. AGAIN, you would have been better off staying near the hook. That would have been two survivors not doing anything. You greatly overestimate how much pressure the killer has following an unhook: they either immediately go to gens or use fast healing perks and then hit the gens. It doesn’t do enough. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715135#Comment_3715135
All I'm calling out here is that the ONLY thing you're referencing is how fast you can down.
What about everything else? Super fast downs and only super fast downs can work against less organised opponents, but a good team is going to be able to overcome it, especially if it comes with more invested time actually finding people.
The downs would need to be REALLY fast in order to overcome basic efficiency from the survivor team, I'm talking sub ten seconds start to finish.
Please tell me how macro-gameplay is making the difference here. I’ll walk through a typical scenario playing the way you describe. Let’s assume we’re on Azarov’s resting place (ez 3 gen map.)
- Down a survivor and hook. You know someone is on a gen on the other side of the map.
- You get to the other survivor (not until they have a significant amount of progress on the gen) and get a quick down.
- Another survivor saves the original survivor on the side of the map that is now completely undefended and gens are gaining progress.
You tell me the smarter play: staying near the original survivor while defending gens on that side, or completely abandoning the place that you know 2 survivors will be, and chasing 1 survivor in a corner of the map.
Again, the way you say to play is possible against a weak survivor group. It’s not against people who pound gens.
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This might work if there is a weak link, or if the person you switch to happens to be a weak link. Your logic is flawed. Whenever I talk about balance, I am assuming that we are talking about people who know what they’re doing. If all 4 survivors know how to play, switching targets does very little. Worst case scenario for them, they take a hit and run to the strong loop that other survivors were abusing.
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@Pulsar said:
OH no! You won't be able to dogwalk 99% of players simply because you equipped 4 slowdowns, how awful!
Now I get to slug people and stand in one area of the map for the whole match. Fun!
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715073#Comment_3715073
The reason many killers - of any skill level - camp and tunnel is because it's significantly easier, and it's significantly easier because of base-game issues that make it hard to punish.
Spreading pressure is just a cornerstone of good skilful killer play and it is enough to win games if you're at the same skill level as your opponents. It just won't be easy depending on what skill level you're playing at, and you'll probably still lose about half of your matches, which is how it's supposed to be.
You’re just wrong dude. The math literally isn’t there for playing the way that you’re describing. In the past, when regression was stronger, I was able to play more for chases. That was years ago, and it’s not like my game knowledge has decreased: killer gameplay has been watered down, and regression has been nuked. As I said, I can down extremely fast, but if they have too good of a gen spread, it can be impossible to win.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714991#Comment_3714991
Not to sound rude, but if that's your perception of the macro game, it might explain why you need to run so much slowdown.
There's more to it than that. Spreading pressure is integral to playing killer because it's the part of the gameplay that results in slowing the match down- and note that by spreading pressure, I mean forcing multiple survivors to react to things at once. Think about the sort of basic bread-and-butter situation the killer would be trying to engineer: One survivor on the hook, one in chase, one peeling off to save. That cuts the generator efficiency down hard while it's happening, so trying to cycle that is a cornerstone of basic killer play.
That's what I mean by "macro game". Not doing that is gonna require bringing a lot more slowdown to compensate for leaving the survivors to do whatever they want.
You’re trying to explain nuance to me, while completely not understanding how higher level play works. “Spreading pressure” only works against people who are slow on gens. There’s a reason pretty much all high level killers camp and tunnel: it’s the only option. I’ve played this game for years and have tried pretty much every approach. There’s only one killer, so survivors always have more pressure on the killer. The spreading pressure tactic results in many hooks, but fewer kills.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714965#Comment_3714965
Assuming that's aimed at me, apologies if it isn't.
Of course there's nuance. Even if this game is comparatively simple - which I'm not sold on, honestly - it still HAS a macro game, and you can still perform very poorly in that macro game even with relatively short chases, which will impact your chances of winning quite heavily. I'm not sure what you'd call that if not nuance, especially when it comes to discussions about slowdown perks.
macro play in this game boils down to choosing an area of the map and playing defensively. It really isn’t that hard
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I really don’t think there is much nuance though. This game is simple.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/413586/they-just-don-t-get-it
Bestie, you got 90 seconds gen, removed gen tapping, given -5% basekit kicks on top of many minor changes, go chase survivors and don't be reliant on 2-3 perks.
Chasing too much throws the game. Even when I’m Nurse and can down people pretty quick, the other survivors just hammer out the gens. This game encourages you to camp, tunnel, and choose a few gens to defend. It’s not fun, and is only getting worse with each update.
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708460#Comment_3708460
"incredibly hard to play" 🤣
I’d love to see footage of you playing her on Leary’s
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708954#Comment_3708954
Then why do survivors in a four man SWF at high MMR lose more than they win? (real numbers are even lower since they don't count matches with a DC). People keep talking about how overpowered SWF is and the official numbers don't back it up. Where are all these unbeatable SWFs that I always hear about? I Have over 4200 hours and I rarely run into them despite having a very high win rate on killer.
4man escape rate is nearly 50%. That’s significantly higher than what the devs say they want (40%)
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708859#Comment_3708859
Did you quote the wrong person, by any chance?
Nope. Your statement about “casual” players is is exactly the thing that I’m addressing. If you’re casual, you should expect to lose to people who are better. The other factor is that a lot of here who claim to be casual are full of it. They run meta perks and are actually mad about losing, something that shouldn’t matter if they are just clowning around.
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@tjt85 said:
It's a fine startegy to use at the right moment (for example, if the Killer is behind and wants to stage a come back), but I don't think it's healthy for the game overall. Especially when it becomes too prevalent. I don't see it too often outside of the events, but I hear certain regions face it more often than others.
My main reason for disliking the strategy is that it's just not fun for the majority of the player base and it drives away the more casual players. I'd be willing to bet most Survivors want to play trials where they get to play the game they queued up for, had the chance to earn a bit of bp and pip and yes, got to interact with the Killer a fair amount. But few players enjoy being hard tunnelled out of the match at 5 gens before they've had a chance to do much of anything at all.
An online multiplayer game that fails to attract and keep casual players is at best, an extremely niche offering that will have little appeal beyond a hardcore of fans and at worst, not likely to survive for long. I think DBD would face the latter fate if it became too competitive. I don't think we have a player base that wants to sweat that hard.
A person who only occasionally plays should expect to lose to someone who plays a lot. By your logic, survivors should expect to pick up the game and beat people who have been playing. At that point, just play a mobile slot machine game. Pure rng. In a pvp game, that’s a toxic mentality.
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Tunneling is the best killer strategy. Unless the devs provide other ways to secure a win, it will stay that way.
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@menacing_goose said:
Since there have been changes to try and help make dbd enjoyable for both sides is there any thoughts on a solution to tunneling at 5 gens. I know it isn’t an easy problem to find a solution to especially since there are situations where killers will need to tunnel for pressure and getting someone out but it’s no fun when it’s happening early and it’s overall just weird behavior.
”Can you force killers to play in a way that’s more fun for me?!”
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704762#Comment_3704762
It does mean that killer isn't in the worst spot it's ever been, though, which was the actual argument in the original post.
My post is focused on since when I started playing in 2018. I used to be able to play chase-oriented builds and have a lot of success. Now if I’m not camping and tunneling against a good group, the game is already decided. I don’t care about 2016 dbd in which there were instant gen repairs and no gen regression period. If you want to go that route though, killer also had things that were much stronger than anything currently in the game. Nurse had no BS recharge meter and killers could mori without hooking.
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@Tyler3 said:
She's at the top of A tier on most people's rankings, yet her pick rate is something like 1.5%. If people generally consider her to be a really good killer, then why do you hardly ever see her?
She has the same problem most killers have: way too much work for too little reward. If you’re going to dedicate time to learning a character, it’s better to learn Nurse.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704762#Comment_3704762
As it we're, reality is what it is. Skilled killers are in a great spot. Survivors are getting the current wave of 'lets dump on their perks and such.' Killers had it a bit before this with MFT, and so on and so forth. Its how BHVR does things.
I do like how you keep getting people stirred up. its almost artful. My advice, which you can ignore of course, is just get some more practice in. Dbd isn't a game where you will ever get to a point where you say 'Well, I guess I've learned any and everything there is to know!". Unless you have the upper echelon of 5 digit hours played. I just can't shake this feeling you've had a losing streak latelyand think killers are in a bad spot for it. I'm currently 0 and 12 today Solo'q. I don't think the killers I had feel the pain you are at all. And judging by most of the posts on this thread, neither are we.
Please let us know how the training is going! If you want some custom fun and shenanigans, always down :)
I win most of my matches, so miss me with the condescending tone. It’s also laughable that you mention “skill” in the context of this game. The best strategies require very little skill on either side. Survivors hold W early and predrop pallets. Killers proxy camp hooks and patrol nearby gens, then tunnel one out early.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704414#Comment_3704414
Maybe it's just you and you need to try something different than you have , the killer role is significantly better than it ever has been , I've played a long time too more killer than survivor you can't sit here and pretend like it's worse now than back then with the old brand new part, go ahead and post a non hacking video of 4 gens popping in 12 secs from todays dbd because that's the type of things we used to deal with every 3-4 games or how about when they Sabo the damn hooks they were gone forever leaving you only the basement? Recovering exhaustion, instaheals that I could pick a dying survivor you just spent 3 minutes chasing at a REAL infinite back up to full health instantly and make it like the game just started again, and don't get me started about the swamp and survivors dropping down the hole and you getting stuck on their head until they decide to move or you DC etc... there's literally a novel I could type out of all the BS that was actually broken back then today's dbd is way more killer friendly than it used to be
Broken things being removed doesn’t mean DBD is some high standard of balance.
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BTW, following the DS changes, killer is now even weaker. The killer role exists for the amusement of survivors. Check out the changes over the past few years if you need proof.
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@Rudjohns said:
Killer has never been easier
People need to understand that they are bad at a game, just that simple
You’re calling people bad at the game when you are the same person who dodges Nurse. Look in the mirror.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694924#Comment_3694924
I think nurse needs a complete rework as her power is inherently insanely problematic and buffs or nerfs will never be able to balance her.
I disagree. Nurse can be mindgamed and has counterplay. The problem is that this community wants every killer to have the same counterplay of holding W and predropping safe pallets. She is fine.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691980#Comment_3691980
Competitive, aka something 99.99% of the player base will never experience and therefore is not taken into account when balancing things
So you agree then that Nurse needs a buff. 99.99% of the playerbase can’t play her at a high level.
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That’s what happens when entitled mentalities are enabled.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688920#Comment_3688920
Perhaps not.
You weren't arguing that though. You have continued to maintain that the game is Survivor-sided despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary.
This leads me to believe it must be a personal experience. Are you losing the majority of your matches? Somehow, I doubt it.
It’s survivor-sided because when both sides know what they are doing, killer is at a disadvantage. It doesn’t make sense to judge the game based on people who don’t know what they’re doing. I’ve already told you that I win most of my matches. I judge balance based around both sides at their max potential. Any experienced killer has had matches in which they load in and have the deck stacked against them from the beginning. You might as well be an NPC in those situations. If they want the game to be casual, that’s fine, but it should be applied to both sides. I’m all for sweating too, but they need to pick an approach and stick with it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688799#Comment_3688799
If Survivors escaped 52% of the time, you'd be the first to proclaim how unfair that is and how Survivor-sided the game is
Way to shift the argument. Some things also matter more than numbers. We always hear about “improving the survivor experience “, followed by hand holding mechanics and perk changes. Killer gets essentially nothing. BHVR has said that killer should feel like an unstoppable force, and nothing could be further from the truth against a good survivor team. Loading into the game against a gen rush group doesn’t feel good. Loading into leary’s as huntress or deathslinger feels like garbage. Numbers don’t tell the whole story.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688669#Comment_3688669
But they still lose over two people on average; meaning it's STILL Killer-sided
48% is much higher than 40. It’s basically half and half. I don’t call that killer sided
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688537#Comment_3688537
We have high-mmr stats and they say otherwise.
The threshold for high MMR is low. The majority of the playerbase is low because who knows how many people try out the game or play once or twice a week. I’d bet that the majority of people who play consistently are at high mmr. The stats that you mention also clearly show that a full SWF at high mmr has a much higher win rate than the 40% BHVR is aiming for.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687792#Comment_3687792
Most maps are fair, actually.
Likewise, we have over a sixty percent kill rate on average, so the game factually doesn't favor Survivor.
The stats reflect the average level of play, which is low. In top level matches, it is clearly survivor-sided.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687693#Comment_3687693
Maps do not generally favor Survivors. Specific maps favor specific sides.
I honestly think you haven't played since 2018
The majority of maps favor survivor
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687612#Comment_3687612
Do you really want to look at the Killer vs Survivor nerfs?
You really want to do that, you have got to know you aren't gonna have it stack up as you want it.
If you’re talking about the quantity of changes, don’t bother. Survivor changes are almost always more impactful. Survivors get basekit BT, DS, off the record (which will 100% be abused by sweat squads), and maps generally favor survivor. Meanwhile killer gets .2% gen kick speed
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The fact that they sometimes make changes that favor killer doesn’t mean that they give equal attention to the role. 6.1 was almost entirely reverted (especially with the DS buff) and they usually make minor, meaningless percentage changes when they “buff” killers. Stop with the false equivalency.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686428#Comment_3686428
I agree it's unhelpful.
Unfortunately, crying, screaming, and having tantrums rather than improving your own gameplay has been the core of the killer guidebook for at least the past two years. Equally unfortunately, it's been insanely effective at nerfing survivor perks, base kit mechanics, items and add-ons, and even most maps at this point.
There are obviously plenty of bad killers around. My point is that they tend to have less influence than survivor mains because there are more of them