woundcowboy
woundcowboy
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685381#Comment_3685381
There's a classic saying, "it's not the destination, it's the journey."
I'd like you to imagine why I'm bringing this up, and I'll give you a few context clues to help you figure it out:
-The OP was complaining that the experience of playing DBD has been miserable due to killer playstyles they encountered recently
-You brought up the goal those killer players had in playing that way
I don't really need a response, I just want you to think about why it is I brought that quote up, how it relates to those two things I pointed out, and maybe, why it is someone might find your response unhelpful or even actively antagonistic
What’s unhelpful is using inexperienced players and bad teammates as a justification for nerfing killer. They should learn the game
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Killers are trying to win in a pvp game. Shocking!
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681414#Comment_3681414
But you can't know that until you're part way into the game, not at the outset.
As I said before, if you're camping and tunneling at 5 gens as default, regardless of your opponents, you will never know when you get a game that you would have won without it. You will also never get a game that actually tests you, that's a close match and is actually fun for both sides. If you camp and tunnel by default, all of your games will be either noob stomps or sweatfests, and nothing in between.
I’d rather end the game quickly than play relaxed and get gen rushed.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681364#Comment_3681364
You do not need to camp and tunnel at 5 gens to play killer.
I play killer. I don't camp or tunnel until I get to end game. I don't even use meta perks. I still win the majority of my games.
But I'm well aware that you're so far gone as a killer main that anyone who even suggests that a killer might not be a scawed wittle puppy just twying to eawn some bwood points looks like an alqaeda peta agent to you.
If you are playing against a sweat squad, something you have acknowledged, you absolutely need to camp and tunnel. The killer shouldn’t be expected to throw the match.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
I’m surprised BHVR doesn’t have special code for super high MMR.
With this idea, MMR works as normal, but when a killer’s MMR starts getting way above the soft cap, the game starts stacking the map generation against them. Maybe it’s extra pallets, maybe it’s extra jungle gyms, or maybe it’s super far apart generators.
This would allow the queue times to remain the same, and would still give additional difficulty to the players that are way above the MMR soft cap.
So just make the match impossible to win? Yea I’m sure everyone would be fine with that….
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679000#Comment_3679000
I mean, Scott also said that the player in question should not complain too much since what he complained about (the Surivvor stacking all the strong stuff to win) was the same what the Blight-player did for almost 2000 games.
You cannot really complain about the Survivors bringing strong Items, a Map Offering and multiple of each Perk while bringing a strong Build in almost 2000 games in a row.
How about this: no one should complain about strong tactics in general.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
Removal of pallets that you could have used to stun the killer is it's own penalty. Pre-drop the shack pallet at 5 gens and see how quickly your fellow survivors chew you out in the end-game chat.
If the survivors are pushing the objective, it doesn’t matter. There are more than enough pallets if survivors decide to do gens. The “wasting resources” thing is a huge myth. That’s why as killer I pick an area of the map to defend, since you can’t afford to go on cross map chases.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670379#Comment_3670379
As a primarily killer player, I think we should all be able to agree this varies wildly depending on maps. GoJ and The Game have a ton of pallets a killer will pretty much always need to break, but Autohaven and a fair amount of the other forest maps? Holding W is a good way to get caught with no resources up.
I really don’t know about that. Simply holding forward after a hit wastes a ton of the killer’s time, and it doesn’t require pallets. The forest maps in particular are gigantic, and have many pallets. I think there either need to be fewer pallets on maps, fewer unmindgameable loops/pallets.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670334#Comment_3670334
No, they really can't. Not against any half-sentient Killer
They can’t predrop? I don’t see how pre dropping is at all demanding.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670317#Comment_3670317
I wasn't aware that "good" (very subjective term) Survivors were granted some special basekit buffs.
Who said anything about buffs? They have been able to and still are able to predrop and hold W. The problem is that they either don’t know this or they try and overcomplicate the game by trying to make “owning the killer” type looping compilations.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669488#Comment_3669488
That's crazy I've been told none of those changes mattered at all and that Survivors were still safe doing that same strat today
Good survivors still do.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669962#Comment_3669962
I mean, if you have to rely on cheap RNG-Kills, thats fine.
How dare a killer rely on part of their toolkit. Happy to see this change, wish that they would have reverted the aura thing too.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669416#Comment_3669416
Probably higher ranking in dbd means Platinum or higher in Street Fighter 6. And many players say that "balancing the game for them is very stupid."
Well, they are wrong. Most games balance around high level. Only this community thinks that’s a problem.
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@sinkra said:
I have never encountered any other pvp game where it's possible for even the best players to win hundreds of games in a row. There are killers going on these win streaks even while using no addons or perks.
You clearly haven’t played fighting games. Top players win literally hundreds of games in a row in ranked play. These winstreaks are possible because of bad play by the average survivor team. Nothing special here.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664713#Comment_3664713
Kind of how you did with your original post huh.... Imagine that the pot calling the kettle black.
Nope, I simply stated the actual thing they were saying instead of the BS word salad of the post.
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@catnip18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664584#Comment_3664584
'I look down on others because I have to play a game where I'm guaranteed a 60% win rate to soothe my ego'
If you think anything is guaranteed in this game, you haven’t played long enough. And I’ll be frank, I 100% look down on passive aggressive posts like OP’s. The person is essentially trying to mask their rage from losing into something that seems reasonable. I would respect them more if they just said they preferred having broken perks.
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@dragondemon75 said:
I know anyone who reads my post is going to have different opinions and comments. This is just my personal take on my experiences playing this game.
In the last 2 years I’ve spent about 2000 hours and over $200 in this game. (which I know is a lot of time, but to be fair some people have more hours than myself ) I absolutely love dead by daylight. The characters, the fun costumes, even meeting others to play with and just fool around.
However, within the past 6 months I’ve just seen such a rapid decline. From perks that just look like they were thrown together, Nerfs and buffs. I no longer enjoy my time playing, so I just play less and less. I haven’t been playing as long as other members , but I’ve noticed there is such a constant stream of change happening in DBD. I’ve heard that when DBD first started , it was quite survivor sided, which was unfair . I just don’t seem to get why behavior thinks it can make up for it by suddenly buffing all these killers perks and add ons.Meanwhile, nerfing basic survivor perks to the point where no one wants to use them anymore.
With all the changes I’ve seen and experienced , all it’s doing is creating such an unbearable environment for a game I love 😭 In these last few months, dropping pallets is delayed, (to the point where I’m spamming R1 and it won’t drop lol) being well over a window and pallet but still getting smacked , hit boxes changing to where I can’t even spin a killer or some outrageous hit gets me. Not only that but wiggling out , hitting great skill checks don’t even do anything !! I can no longer tap a gen to hopefully help my teammates, I can’t even slow vault a window anymore to avoid entity blocking during a chase.
When it comes to perks I can’t have my MFT, Boil over, dead hard, Adrenaline , any decent perk has been ruined , when its counters only get stronger . I can get carried halfway across a map with agitation and iron grasp, No-Ed countering adrenaline , MFT being forced into deep wound ( it’s not that easy to get into it. Without a help of a perk or depending on the killer). Even Built to last needed to be nerfed!? 😭 like let’s be fr .
You don’t fix years of imbalance like this. If you’re gonna finally be nice to killers with all their cool new add ons and abilities , let survivors have a chance too so they can actually get through a match?? My recent gameplay experience is Tunnel after tunnel, only being able to complete one gen , Id day 50% of the time. It’s becoming an absolutely horrible experience, even being able to play with a SWF.
Behavior, Devs, I know you have so many people screaming and yelling constantly about this and that . Running such a large game like DBD is no easy task. It’s just very different gameplay compared to when I first started this game. If you aren’t gonna change the perks for the better, at least let me smack a pallet down on someone’s head when I click the button. Because you guys happily take everyone’s money 💰 but don’t fix what needs to be fixed. I no longer want to fund something that won’t even bring me joy anymore.
maybe once the money gets effected , maybe you’ll realize the unpleasantness of it all. Let’s see if survivors can rally together the same way these killers do 👊
“I’m upset because I didn’t get to keep my broken perks”
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662729#Comment_3662729
Again we would see a heavy skew in outcome when survivors are coordinated, which would probably be represented by a much larger survival rate between SWF and Solo as SWF tend to be the most coordinated. But the most recent numbers didn't have that big of a skew, it was like less than 10% if I recall.
So if killer is only disadvantaged in the rare circumstance that they face a highly coordinated, highly experienced team and by the numbers highly coordinated, highly experienced teams are not representative of the majority of games.
Then you are looking at a very tiny number of games were you are disadvantaged from game start purely due to match up. Intrinsically killer has the mechanical advantage because the survivor advantage is reliant on team coordination something outside of BHVR's control.
This again is represented by the kill vs escape ratio favoring killer overall.
You have to consider game balance based around high level play, in which everyone knows how to play. Saying that the balance is fine because a lot of people don’t know the game is a cop out. It doesn’t matter if it’s rare (and in my experience it isn’t as rare as people like to claim): the killer should never be out of a match before it begins. People can learn to play the game and get to a high level, which makes the hand holding mechanics BHVR has added (like base BT) incredibly overpowered. It’s lazy thinking to say that the majority should dictate how we play and think about the game.
It’s only logical that people who know the game and have put in time are going to stomp less experienced players. The worrying trend I am seeing with this game is that BHVR is trying to make it easier for inexperienced players to beat experienced players, and I don’t think that’s how it should be. I also think that this community has a lot of dishonest people who advocate around “casual” balance even though they know the game because they want to keep their advantage as survivors.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650090#Comment_3650090
I'm afraid the killer skew in outcome that BHVR has reported doesn't support your opinion. If the game was survivor skewed, you would expect a different outcome being recorded that was opposite to what we are actually seeing.
That's the problem with pesky empirical measurement, it doesn't really care how we feel or think and won't change to fit our opinion. We have to modify our opinion to fit the data and the data is saying killers kill more than survivors escape.
That's why I said if you are complaining that there is a loss of variable strategy, and a blander game experience, due to games playing out in a similar fashion... Then you'd have something. Because with the new anti-camp and the new anti 3 gen plus built in BT and a bunch of other changes, we are generally seeing one style of play being favored by the mechanics more than others and frankly that's bland. But as for the game being survivor sided the current kill vs escape numbers BHVR released just don't support that point of view.
"This forum isn’t the majority of the playerbase. People who post on here, generally, care more about the game than the average dbd player." - I'd be really careful with this one too as it assumes the motivation of forum posters and to apply directly to the topic it has to also assume that regular forum posters are likely higher MMR. There is no evidence, or even measure, of this whatsoever.
I'd wager a lot of opinions about the game being unbalanced can be boiled down to players overestimating themselves rather than genuine mechanical or balance issues.
Yes, it’s well known that most people aren’t good at the game. When people who don’t know how to play are against each other, it favors killer. When each side knows the game, killer is at a massive disadvantage.
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I said this 3 years ago. For whatever reason, the devs refuse to balance around hooks. They’d rather punish the killer for trying to win.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660306#Comment_3660306
Define competent.
As a former competitive player, a competent group is far below your skill level. Above-average players playing together isn't that common.
Against very good players, who are also grouped up, sure, I'd agree with that. But that's so uncommon. That's what, maybe 1/20 games? You'll probably win that too.
The problem is that I have to assume everyone is competent from the beginning. I’ve had countless matches in which I played chill and it turns out they knew how to hold M1 on gens. It only takes one bad chase to lose the entire match.
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@GeneralV said:
Because it is a chance. A survivor's desperate attempt to escape and it can create some interesting plays.
It is so iconic that killers even had an unwritten rule of respecting the 4%, letting players go if they managed to kobe. That doesn't really happen anymore, but the mechanic's importance remains.
I’ve never respected that garbage rule lol
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660258#Comment_3660258
Tunneling happens to be both the strongest single thing a killer can do while also being the easiest thing to do. Why would they not design perks to not encourage this?
My point is that they should change gameplay to make it more feasible to play for hooks. Incentivizing it isn’t enough.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660258#Comment_3660258
Because it's easy?
Tunneling/camping is the only way to get 3-4k against competent groups. You have no choice if you want to win.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660115#Comment_3660115
How dare strong perks try to encourage NOT tunneling someone out instantly???
It’s just further proof that the devs are disconnected from how the game is played. They are using perks like pain res and grim to incentivize spreading hooks, without addressing why killers are doing it in the first place.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659733#Comment_3659733
You won't always get value out of any perk.
Midwich is so Killer-sided I hardly think it matters, but hook RNG on that map in general is bad. I was gonna say Haddonfield earlier, but honestly? Two usually spawn somewhat near the street, one on each side.
I pretty much always get value out of pop, even moreso before its nerf. Ruin used to always give some value, even if it was cleansed early. Even pain res itself used to give a lot more value since it didn’t have tokens or force you to play in a certain way.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659635#Comment_3659635
Maybe?
I could see it something like Eyrie or Garden. Big maps with multiple stories, pretty sure at least one PR is guaranteed in the buildings.
Any other map though? Not really an issue for most players it seems.
You hear a lot of complaints in DBD, I can honestly say I haven't heard anything about Scourge Hook RNG in over a year.
It’s happened to me multiple times in the past few days. Haddonfield, midwhich, or any map with two stories significantly increases the odds. I want a perk that always gives me value.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659532#Comment_3659532
I can't recall the last time I didn't get a Pain Res when I wanted one.
Then you have incredible luck
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659495#Comment_3659495
That wasn't even what you were arguing half the time.
Half the time it was, "Oh, I feel like the game is more competitive and I can't just chase people one after another anymore" and then I'd try to get you back on gen regression and you'd go off again.
Gen regression is stronger. Straight-up. There's more and it's better. If your idea of RNG is getting a down, then yes, most regression is reliant upon that.
Pop gives you value when you get a down. And for the hundredth time, getting a down does not guarantee you a pain res proc.
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It’s only good on killers who can get rid of their terror radius. Smart survivors will hear you approaching and stop healing.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659469#Comment_3659469
Honestly I wouldn't even bother, I had this conversation already and it is WILD
And in that conversation, you weren’t able to refute the fact that most regression perks are low impact and/or RNG dependent.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659436#Comment_3659436
Pop still requires you to down people and then go and kick the gen, what makes it so good in your eyes in comparison?
You have more control over it than any other perk. You get it every time you hook someone and can choose which gen you want to regress. It’s not as good as it once was though.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659392#Comment_3659392
?
Pain Res is a fantastic regression perk that literally only requires you to chase and down different survivors, a great and healthy perk for the game.
Dead man’s switch can be combo’d with Pain Res, Grim Embrace, Ultimate Weapon, Infectious Fright and more. A borderline OP perk when paired with these.
Grim Embrace is fantastic just by itself but deadly when paired with Pain Res or DMS, again a perk that encourages you to spread hooks, another healthy perk for the game.
Deadlock literally requires you to do nothing and can give you 120 seconds of gen stall just for survivors doing their objective.
Jolt can be hit or miss depending on the map and where the survivors go down, but another perk that rewards you for simply chasing survivors and downing them.
All these perks literally don’t even require you to touch a gen the whole match and give you unreal regression when paired together. You don’t have to go out of your way and kick gens anymore, killer gets rewarded for chases with these perks and they lead to absolute snowball fests and incredible time saves in your average match.
Except that you don’t have time for a lot of chases against sweaty groups. I was running grim embrace and decided that it’s completely not worth it- camping and tunneling is more efficient. 12 seconds isn’t enough value, and while the 40 seconds is good, I normally only got it activated in games that I was already winning. It’s either not enough value, or a win harder perk. Jolt regression is laughable and map dependent. I’ve said it before, but Pain Res is too RNG dependent, and requires too much hook spreading. There are matches that I run it and get 0 or 1 use. It doesn’t provide consistent value.
The devs keep trying to incentivize “healthy” gameplay without addressing core gameplay issues. The game moves too fast, so camping and tunneling is still the most efficient playstyle if you want to get a 3-4K. DBD needs a redesign, not perk changes.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659329#Comment_3659329
What do you mean when you say gen regression is gone? Pain Res, DMS, Deadlock, Pop, Jolt, Grim Embrace, Corrupt, etc. are all great perks that have synergy with plenty of perks. Would you rather have it be back to when only two gen perks were viable being Ruin and Pop?
None of those perks are comparable to the older, better gen regression metas. Pop is the only one that is still decent imo.
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It’s almost like gen regression is gone and killers have no choice but to play lame. Who could have seen that coming?!
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@Lost_Boy said:
His expose add-on is pretty good so I definitely wouldn't class it as one of the worst in the game. Obviously you need to be landing long range shots fairly consistently, but I definitely get value from the one add-on more than any others.
It can easily turn the game from losing to winning with one good shot, especially against good SWF teams.
It’s not a matter of hitting the shot, it’s the fact that long range shots are much less likely to lead to an M1 because of all of the debris across maps. It really only works if you hit them in the open.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658601#Comment_3658601
The clutter affects him similar, but things like tree tops dont. The new map has a canopy of trees that restricts Huntress since she has to aim upwards to get distance. Also basically every crack and hole is a possible DS play. Here's a video that might as well be retitled as "Shots only deathslinger can do".
https://youtu.be/RQ1zgSiazT4?si=VDBqOXpjKMAsEIRA
And once again... Perks. Huntress can't really take advantage of perks like surge or starstruck while EVERY down a deathslinger makes is considered basic attacks. Huntress definitely has advantages over Deathslinger, but can we at least admit he has advantages over her as well? He's not just a "worse Huntress", but typically the people who come to this conclusion never take the shots that Huntress can't take.
I already said he has some things going for him over her, but I’m standing by my point: she is better overall.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658586#Comment_3658586
"The best players will win the majority of their games. That's how it should be"
In DBD, the AVERAGE killer wins the majority of their games. Not the best, the AVERAGE. In contrary, the best survivors don't win the majority of their games, unless they're top 1% in 4-man SWFs, that's what the charts say. Have you seen them?
When both sides are weak or average, the game favors killer. When both sides are strong, killer is at a big disadvantage. If you tried nerfing killer more to help the average players, they would be unplayable against good survivors.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658596#Comment_3658596
Can you describe for @woundcowboy why the quick ADS created lose-lose scenarios for survivors?
I mained slinger back then, I know. That point is also irrelevant to the purposes of this thread.
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@LordGlint said:
I feel like Deathslinger's biggest issue is people only doing things with him that you could already do with Huntress. Deathslinger has shots and plays that HE can do that Huntress can't. Between that and all the perks that activate upon basic attacks, this mentality that he's just a worse Huntress just feels misplaced. Heck, alot of maps even remove the biggest advantage Huntress has over DS, which was range. The trees on the new map on the PTB make it impossible to hit a ranged Huntress hatchet
The clutter affects him almost as bad as her. While it’s true that he can get shots that she can’t, Huntress still has several advantages over him. Her lullaby can he quite deceptive and when she hits, it’s a guaranteed health state. Slinger has to hope he hits them around a small tile or a vault, otherwise he isn’t getting a down. It’s incredibly frustrating.
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@Smoe said:
ADS: the devs got rid of his instacscope to increase “skillful” gameplay, so I see no reason as to why he can’t have more control while aiming.
That's not the reason why they got rid of it, the reason it was removed was because killers would constantly spam m2 while in chase which resulted in Survivors being put into lose-lose situations.
It got so bad that it reached the point where people complained about Deathslinger on an almost daily basis on the forum until it got changed.
Well yea, and I’m saying that they went too far with the nerf. I would understand nerfing the instascop or the terror radius, but not both.
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@Saiph said:
Not a comment on game balance itself but just a reminder that BHVR's justification for the 60% killrate makes absolutely no sense in a game with MMR.
MMR's job is to keep the killrate at 50% regardless of game balance. You could make killers move at 2x speed, the overall killrate would still be at 50%, the system will simply match experienced survivors against total beginners to achieve it. Actually, the kilrate should mathematically be more around ~40%, because hatch escape does not even count as a full escape for MMR.
So, the fact that the killrate is 60%, does not just mean the game is killer-sided. What it means above all, is that MMR is not doing its job.
I don't think anyone has a clue on what the killrate means, including BHVR. The stats they shared have always been pointless and full of contradictions, and even more after they explain them.
Like, look at this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NVT4S27VNE8T/image.png
High MMR survivors, escape less than regular survivors? I'm sorry but what the #########? So the higher MMR you go, the more you lose? It's the single game on the planet that works like that.
That’s not how MMR works. It tries to create matches of roughly equally skilled people. Look at fighting games: top players mop the floor with almost everyone in ranked mode. That doesn’t mean the player should be handicapped or the character nerfed. The best players will win the majority of their games. That’s how it should be. This 50/50 nonsense is lazy thinking that seems rational because it’s in the middle.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657988#Comment_3657988
HAHA you have to be joking if you seriously think farm maps are better for survivors now than they used to be. Cleary you have NOT played on 2018 thompsons house or rotten fields.
They added a few obstacles here and there on a few maps, if that's seriously throwing off your ability to play ranged characters you weren't playing ranged characters correctly in the first place.
Loops for survivors are so much worse than they used to be. Take for example all these new tiles such as the 3 lane which are alot worse than original jungle gyms. Windows on main buildings have been consistently nerfed and are a shell of what they used to be. The number of loops has dropped significantly. New maps like the nostromo have many garabge pallets in the rocks which you need to predrop and get lucky on a mindgame or you die, not even mentioning that 70% of killers now have chase powers anyway that negate all of this. This is ALSO not taking into account all of the killer buffs which have happened over the years to survivor speed boosts, killer recovery times, action times for killer, decreased vault speeds, removal of pallet vaccuum, removal of dh.
Oh and seriously you think gen regression is worse now than it used to be? In 2018 you had ruin and that was IT. 80 second gens, toolboxes which halfed gen times, brand new parts which did gens instantly, stronger survivor perks for gens such as prove thyself.
If you seriously think this then no amount of killer buffs will appease you.
I said the farm maps aren’t as bad as they used to be. I can tell you don’t play ranged killers- there are so many things blocking LOS that survivors usually don’t have to try to deny the shot from happening. Again, it’s not like I’m missing shots- survivors all pre run and use the map to make sure I have no chance at a shot. You conveniently left out that there are many maps in current Dbd that are extremely busted and unfair, such as asylum, the game, all versions of badham, leary’s (especially for ranged killers), garden of joy….need I continue?
Gen regression was objectively stronger, mainly because pop and ruin were better. Killers have gotten worse as a whole. 2018 Nurse and Spirit were easily more powerful than anything currently in the game. Nurse has been nerfed 50 times since then, and like most killers has a janky cooldown mechanic now. It’s really not even a tier issue so much as it is that most killers feel neither fluid nor powerful. They have baby mode, built-in counterplay that deletes their power or a lousy cooldown mechanic.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657927#Comment_3657927
Huh so you're saying that tile/pallet density is better than it used to be in 2018 for survivors? And that loops are better for survivors now?
Some maps are improved, especially farm. But then you have things like crotus penn and the game which are still very unfair. Maps like autohaven have had the loops adjusted, but added clutter to screw over projectile killers. Also keep in mind, gen regression has been heavily nerfed since then. Loops for survivor are still incredibly strong on most maps.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657890#Comment_3657890
Force the predrop sooner? Either you predrop it instantly or it's not a predrop.
I might have agreed with you 4 years ago. Maps in dbd are completely different to what they used to be. We no longer have giant maps like mothers dwelling or temple of purg, nor do we have maps like cowshed or stuff. Huntress is stronger now than ever because maps are shrinking and shrinking fast. The Nostromo is currently the most recent and smallest map in the game. At some point excuses like this will need to be at least improved on or people will see right through.
Also when people use the phrase "viable killer" it tells me you've been brainwashed by tru3ta1ent.
Nope, I know this because I’ve been playing since 2018. It’s not map size so much as it is tile/pallet density, and the fact that the majority of loops favor the survivor-side. There’s so much clutter and random junk that prevent aiming-based killers from having the opportunity to take a shot. There’s also breakable walls, which 9/10 favor the survivor because the killer is forced to break them.
You can say that Huntress is strong, but the devs disagree with you. In fact they explicitly said in the patch notes that maps hurt her, which is why she is being buffed.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657633#Comment_3657633
But hang on i can predrop the pallet vs wesker and huntress and blight does that make them bad killers?
Wesker can get hits at certain tiles that most killers can’t, plus he can force the predrop sooner. And yes, I think Huntress isn’t a viable killer, mainly due to awful map design locking her out of even being able to take shots. That’s why she is being buffed.
Predropping is the main reason that the majority of killers aren’t viable at high level. If survivors are playing safe and doing gens, the killer can’t catch anyone in a reasonable amount of time. That’s why Nurse is the best killer: she can force a mindgame at any tile/setup.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656743#Comment_3656743
I too have played many asyms over the years. Evolve didn’t favor hunters, TCM doesn’t favor victims, and TED was decently balanced.
If you think TED was decently balanced, there’s nothing else to say. There are tons of exploits that gave the survivor side huge advantages. The game died because those devs listened to the survivor majority and people stopped playing demon. TCM definitely favors victims, but it is overall much better balanced than most asyms.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657201#Comment_3657201
How is it a nerf to people who use their traps normally? The slowdown it provides Is completely unchanged.
The ambush being stronger is a game changer because it makes even more loops stronger for pig and her ability to use the ambush.
Pre drop the pallet and she can’t do anything
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I think they should be the model of how loops are balanced. Both sides have the opportunity to make a play, and it comes down to mind games. That’s much more interesting to me than a tile that the survivor controls.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653651#Comment_3653651
Oh, so now nurse needs to get her justice? Ok, she'll get her justice when they massively nerf survivors as a whole again. Maybe increase gen times another 15-20 seconds.
Obviously i'm being ridiculous on purpose and i don't think that should happen.
But the point still stands, nurse is, per the data, one of the worst killers in the game. So now you have to reconcile this belief:
- Do we balance the game around high level players or average players?
- If we balance the game around average players, you'll need to explain why nurse who has nearly 10% less kill rate than the devs are balancing for needs any kind of change other than MASSIVE buffs.
- If we balance the game around high level players, you'll have to explain why nurse and blight are the only viable killers in the game and why that is not a problem.
Unless of course your belief is that we should only balance the game around high level KILLER players, but average level SURVIVOR players. In which case you are extremely biased. And at that point, you may as well just remove the killer role entirely and make it a bot.
That exactly what he and most people on this forum believe. It’s fine to balance Nurse around .1% of players, as well as high skill killers like deathslinger and blight, but god forbid we balance around optimal survivor play.
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@Ayodam said:
Conversely, overbuffing that role in Death Garden and Evolve killed those games. So I guess the pendulum swings both ways huh?
Not really. I’ve played many asyms over the years, and all except death garden were insanely survivor-favored, mostly because those whiners are the loudest. TCM has been nice because the survivor community doesn’t dominate the narrative. Death garden is the exception, not the rule.