thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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@Wolf74 said:
You. Simple as that. you want to be lazy. If you like that... ok. That's your choice, but don't ask for more training wheels.
So I am out. You won't change your mind even if reason is biting you in the rear.
I won't drag that out any further… people can read this and make their own decision.
"Training wheels" is exactly what NOED is, so I'm not sure why you are saying I'm asking for them.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369313#Comment_369313
If they're body blocking the Totem, the Survivors now have one less player assisting them and must now deal with a Killer who can now spot anyone hiding nearby. If the Traitor legitimately teams up with the Killer, the Killer just got a massive shift in momentum that the other Survivors really can't do anything about because bodyblocking. That doesn't seem like good design to me.
Then the other survivors should just act like they are a man short, which is how it supposed to work. A smart Traitor wouldn't give away both the totem location and the fact they are a Traitor, especially with the new last rule that says they will be killed if everyone else escapes.
Again it's the whole point of the perk to disrupt the normal survivor/killer dynamic.
Also increased aura reading to 20 seconds to make it that much more powerful.
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@Fenrir said:
No this is a really be idea
Because the survivor can't be killed by the killer? I'm loving how everyone focuses on that and not on the fact that this would actually make survivors screw each other over. They can still be killed, only it has to be by another survivor (or themselves if they choose to do it).
Think outside your little box people. Survivors would indeed screw each other over if given the chance for a free escape.
Though perhaps there can be a stipulation that says the Traitor cannot escape the trail unless at least 1 other survivor has been killed or sacrificed.
EDIT: Added a new rule. See OP.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369307#Comment_369307
It's not a calculated risk at all, it's just being stupid and trusting the opponent, like survivors did with the Wraith back when NOED wasn't a hex.
Are you saying that killers would never actually want to farm with survivors? That any killer that offers to farm is actually a troll that will kill you anyway?
You know this isn't true. Survivors have to be cautious when trusting a killer, therefore it stands to reason that a killer must be cautious when trusting survivors as well. It's not meant to be a guarantee just a means of screwing with survivors (or rather making them screw with themselves). If you make the Deal and it goes south, that's your fault for trusting the wrong player.
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@TAG said:
"*The Traitor is able to fully recover from Dying State and the bleed out timer will never expire.
*The Traitor cannot be killed by mori.
*The Traitor's Reverse Bear Trap timer will never expire and the trap will not activate at the Exit Gates."
Can't all of these be combined into a single "The traitor cannot die or be sacrificed?"
Also, I do have to ask: What stops the Traitor from body blocking the Totem? You can't exactly say that they're griefing their team if they're now being branded a "traitor."
Originally I wrote it as such but it was a full paragraph. Just saying "they can't die" isn't specific enough because how do hooks work? Dying state? RBT? That's why I wrote it that way.
And if the Traitor body blocks the totem then they aren't doing anything else of importance. Their goal should be to get all the other survivors killed.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369300#Comment_369300
How is the killer to know if it's SWF or not, if the survivor will play their part or not, or anything, really? They can't, it's not possible unless they know the survivor personally.
It's not about numbers, the entire concept is bad.
Yea it's called "calculated risk". If you make the Deal and the Traitor takes advantage of you then you got suckered.
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@wolf74 You still have no argument. You only want to justify freebies. Which of us had a pathetic view again?
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369291#Comment_369291
Within 8 meters of an entity with full control of its movements, for 10 seconds every 40 seconds (at best).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369290#Comment_369290
SWF and plain common sense completely ######### on this idea. Just because the traitor is, well, a traitor, doesn't mean they have to betray the other survivors. They can just stay away, since the aura reading has such a short radius, and they're effectively invincible.
Then the killer is a fool for making the Deal.
Also I can guarantee you the some SWF groups will troll their friends by destroying the totem and killing them.
Numbers can be adjusted to benefit the killer better. Obviously it needs play testing, you are nitpicking the specifics too much here.
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@Wol74 "Your point of view is just pathetic."
LOL you have no argument and just resort to insults. Very nice. You want a sippy top with your free kills?
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@Orion said:
So a killer perk that makes a survivor invincible? What exactly is the incentive for the killer to use this perk? And how do you reconcile this with the rules?
The Traitor is immune to being killed, but can still be hit/downed/hooked (as to make it seem like there was no Deal). In return, the Traitor can rat out other survivors for the killer. However, other survivors can kill the Traitor by destroying the totem.
So while the killer themselves cannot kill the Traitor, other survivors can. It turns them against each other. It's a means of disrupting the natural dynamics of the game such that survivors don't trust each other which will ultimately benefit the killer.
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Can't gen rush if there are no gens to rush
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Technically this is porn.
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It gives you gas
*ba dum tiss*
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*Looks in rear view mirror*
Must go faster, must go faster, must go faster...
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@DocOctober said:
It seems to me that YOU lack that particular understanding. Asymmetrical means that there's a (single) power role and a number role. For an asymmetrical game to be balanced, the (single) power role should be as strong as all the members of the number role combined, meaning that in a 1v1 situation, the power role is stronger than the number role.
No asymmetrical means that both sides have different objectives and mechanics. A "power role" is not something that should be in a multiplayer game because it implies that one side has control over the game. They don't. Killers and survivors are opposing forces, neither side is meant to control the state of the game.
A true "power role" is something like Sims where you are literally God and can control every detail of the game. This should not be confused with "power fantasy" either, which are games where the player is given a lot of power to the point they feel like Superman. Crackdown 3 is an example of this, because by the end of the game you are so powered up that you can climb buildings and fight the enemy AI 100 to 1 with super powerful weapons.
This idea that killers need to somehow exert power over the survivors needs to end. You're not the decider of fates by default, you have to earn that through skill and strategy. It's not just given to you by virtue of which side you pick.
A more descriptive term for killer's role is "aggressor" or "actor", while survivors are "defenders" or "actees".
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This would be cool, however I put my vote to McFarlane Toys because they make some of the most crazy detailed figures ever.
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I play both and I find it a LOT easier to 4k with Pig. Freddy I have to really be on top of everything, where with Pig I can just kinda do whatever and I'll be fine as long as I don't get sucked into a crazy long chase. RBT is also a more reliable time waster than DW, even though I think DW is ultimately stronger.
I think what you're experiencing is survivors that are just really scared of Freddy because he's invisible. If you get 1 or 2 of those survivors in your Freddy game it can be a cakewalk. But if you get survivors that aren't scared and understand what you can and cannot do, Pig is better because her pressure is more direct. You can outplay those survivors pretty easy with Pig, but it's a LOT harder to do that with Freddy.
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Freddy is the weakest killer because his power does nothing for him in a chase outside of an initial potential mind game. Every other killer has something to help in a chase. Freddy's only strength is in stalling the game with sleep but since waking up is very RNG and he has literally 0 pressure when you are awake it can't always make up for lack of chase options.
Personally I would just like 2 things for Freddy: sleep transition prevents all survivor actions except vaulting/pallets (maybe also unhooking) and skill checks are inverted in DW so you can't just mash the button to wake up. If they did that I would be happy with where Freddy is because he can be good if you play to his strengths.
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If people vote on it then it's not a real tier list. Real tier lists are made using game data and tournament results. Since we have not had any (official) tournaments for DBD a real tier list cannot exist. You could argue that the Space eSports (or whatever it was) was a tournament result but 1 tournament is not sufficient to make a list, not to mention how poorly it was run and officiated (rules and such).
Still interesting to look at, just making the point you can't make a real tier list without certain criteria.
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What is this list even supposed to be?
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Adren is just fine. It's the counter to anti-heal killer builds. If you run Sloppy and slug a lot expect Adren at the end of the game.
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If you have Class Photo then someone getting Adren in your face is actually kind of a good thing. But yes it's a bit dumb. I play Rancor on Freddy to and when I do this I just hold sleep on them expecting Adren.
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@Wolf74 "That is such a crap idea. It's called "preparing". And just because the requirements are reversed in nature, still make them requirements."
Yes preparing to fail. And no they are not requirements because you did nothing as killer to earn it. You're trying to justify freebies here.
"DBD is a horror survival game based on slasher movies, so you better like getting a nasty jump scare surprise. But most survivor mains don't want that, they want the killer to be predictable so they can feel safe all the time."
NOED isn't a jump scare. Prayer Beads is a jump scare. SM Myers is a jump scare. NOED is a cheap shot, like hitting someone before the bell rings.
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@Wolf74 "The speech about "Noed has no requirements to trigger", that is the foundation of this thread, is utterly wrong. Noed needs all gens done AND still a dull totem to trigger it and even than the Hex can get found and destroyed. And those things are not enough "requirements"?"
No because it requires nothing on the part of the killer. Devour Hope has requirements because you have to be active as killer to get the effects. NOED is just given to you for failing.
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The only change I think NOED needs it that there should be a "tell" that you have it. Something that is very slight but noticeable if you pay attention. Also something that you can hide as killer, but at a slight cost. For example, when you damage a gen the sparks are red for a short time. It's subtle but gives away you have NOED. Then if you want to hide it then you just don't kick gens, or do it in a way where you know no one will see the red sparks.
Then as survivor it's not such a slap in the face at the end of the game. And as killer I can show the survivors I have NOED as a threat to make them slow down on gens/do totems which is really what I'd want.
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Spirit then Freddy then Huntress. However Huntress can also be the most frustrating if I'm playing poorly or get a bad map.
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I don't think this is the case actually. When they initially developed the killer, the license holder would have given certain criteria they want to see from the killer. "His power has to put survivors to sleep. He must exist in the Dream World. He has to be based on the 2010 version of the character (meaning no super silly powers or transformations)." So as long as the devs still work within those criteria they were initially given they don't have to exactly get approval from the license holder, though I'm sure they will still take that step just to be sure they don't step out of bounds mistakenly. But it would be something like "here is the final redesign we want to go with, is it okay, yes/no?" and if it's a yes then they go ahead with it.
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I get this too. Sometimes I don't want to kill someone just yet. I always try to get a hook on everyone before I finish someone.
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@Entità said:
I think they should set Thanatophobia's stacks to 3/4/5% penalty for each suffering survivor, so:
- 3/4/5% with 1 survivor wounded;
- 6/8/10% with 2 survivors wounded;
- 9/12/15% with 3 survivors wounded;
- 12/16/20% with 4 survivors wounded.
It would be a slightly buff, useful to make Thanatophobia quite decent.
Yea I was gonna say this. 5% per injured survivor would be an overall buff. You lost 1% on the first injured survivor but get more for each additional one. I really don't get why it couldn't be done this way.
If anything just make the 6% per injured survivor debuff apply to gens and not healing. That's where the value of Thana comes in anyway.
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@Lonefox64 said:
I wish they would have kept the new changes
Me too but since they won't be just leave it the way it is now.
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This is disappointing. I actually already use Sloppy/Thana and I was hoping to make it a permanent combo for all my killers. Guess not :(
Where you guys getting this info BTW?
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Plague walks like a runway model. Call me a sicko, but I'd still tap that after a double wrap.
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@Eveline said:
Why not 100?
I just got to 85 and felt it was more than enough. I can counter 360's and all other kinds of jukes just fine. Maybe I'll up it again someday, but for now 85 works.
I generally never play the absolute highest sensitivity on shooters either. Usually 80-90%. Gears of War I play 25-25-20 where the highest is 30, but you really don't NEED it to be that high. You just need look to be over 20 so you can wallbounce quickly, and your look and aim should be the same to avoid this weird slow down effect when you pop shot.
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FPS, yes.
Controller sensitivity. no.
If you turn it up to 100 then you should have no problem catching survivors that try to 360 the blink. I play on 85 and I can beat that very easily. People that say sensitivity is a problem for killers on console I feel just suck with a control stick. No other way to say it. It's not hard at all to look around and track squirrelly survivors with a control stick on higher sensitivities.
FPS is the only real problem for the Nurse, because when you blink the screen can freeze and THAT messes you up big time. It might seem like a controller issue, but no it's purely the FPS. This affects all killers, but really REALLY hurts the Nurse. Like I get frame drops when I swing sometimes as like Pig or Freddy and miss just because of bad FPS. If I had a consistent 60 FPS with no hitching I would probably never miss a swing. Literally FPS drops are the only time I miss. With Nurse those frame drops happen way more often and thus it's a lot easier to whiff.
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Lery's and Haddonfield are generally the worst maps for killers. Lery's is a minor exception since some killers with specific builds are actually very powerful on this map.
@The_Crusader Rotten Fields really isn't that bad. If you are corn blind yea it can be bad but if not it's just fine. If you really have trouble, Shadowborn and Stridor both help immensely in corn. Tall killers generally have an easier time too. The only 2 killers that are super weak to corn blindness are Nurse (because fatigue) and Hag (because short). I never have a problem with corn outside of those 2. This coming from someone that plays on console too.
Trapper is, IMO, the only killer with no "bad" maps. Some maps are good for him, while the rest are mostly neutral only because he can preemptively shut down the strongest loops with well placed traps. He's the only killer I would say is neutral on Haddonfield because he's the only one that can stop Balanced Landing loops at the houses which destroys most other killers, and he can make those narrow paths by fences/hedges very unsafe with traps. Not to mention, he can totally lock down the Myers house with traps if he basements you.
Huntress is the most map dependent killer, she's like the opposite of Trapper. Some maps are neutral while the rest are bad. She doesn't really have any "good" maps. Haddonfield, Lerys, Game, swamp, forest, family residence, they all kinda suck for her because she is the only legit slow killer in the game.
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@Countfunkular "This is a team-based game."
It's actually not. Survivors are not a team. People that say this don't realize the game is made for you to be selfish. SWF is the only instance where you can point and say "it's a team game" and even then it's not true. You are playing to survive. What happens to the other survivors has no relevance to you other than the fact that your chance of survival goes up significantly when more survivors are alive. The longer all of you are in the game the greater the chance each individual has to survive. But at the end of the day if someone is gonna die, you just play so that doesn't end up being you.
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The problem I have with Legion is that Frenzy hits are just simply unavoidable if the killer is in any way decent. If a Legion decides to chase you, you get hit. There's no counter play, you just get hit. You can't outrun them. You can't use windows/pallets to avoid them. They just follow you and swing. If they miss so what, they recover almost instantly and can swing again.
I had a Legion use FMT and the purple cooldown add-on together. He hit me 3 times in 10 seconds and downed me, and there was nothing I could do to stop it. I didn't even have time to make it to a pallet or window (even if I did he would just follow me over it like it didn't matter). No amount of juking or 360's can avoid that.
Their whole power needs a rework. Deep Wounds is such a lame status effect too because killers can cheese the mechanic so easy. On top of that, you can't even run and hide because you reveal your position when you go down. It's just not fun to deal with.
And if you want to reply to me to say "you can avoid it" then you clearly have never played a half decent Legion ever. If the person plays killer you get hit, and when a major dynamic of the game is avoiding a hit it just ruins the whole experience. I honestly don't even see how Legions can find it fun on their end, it's like a given they will catch the person without using any sort of skill. Maybe if you suck that hard as killer it can be fun, but for those of us that don't suck it's just super lame to be guaranteed hits/downs like that.
EDIT: Relying on your opponent to mess up is not a valid counter tactic. I see some people making that argument and it's so wrong it's not even funny. A counter tactic is something you, as the player, can actively do to beat something another player does. Waiting for them to mess up is passive and completely independent of the actions you take. It's like saying that to counter an infinite loop you have to wait until they make a mistake. What if they NEVER make a mistake? What are you supposed to do then? Nothing? Well then infinites must be broken because there is no counter tactic. Now replace infinites with Legion Frenzy and you see why this killer is a problem.
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NANI?!?
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I don't think anti-heal perks will be too good on Plague considering that the fountains insta-heal survivors. Stuff like Sloppy, Thana, Nurse's, etc will all end up being somewhat worthless.
People say M&A is good on her, I can understand why but eh... I think stuff like Tinkerer or Dark Devotion will be better.
Enduring/Spirit Fury will be really strong for her since she's still weak to loops. Brutal Strength also just to eat through pallets faster.
BBQ/Ruin is good on every killer, nothing special for Plague.
I think Blood Warden might be a good perk for her. If you get a proc and have corrupt vomit you can basically multi-down in the gates.
Knockout would be good for her since it can slow the game and spread the sickness (when they heal them up). Plus because of Broken they won't be able to heal all the way.
STBFL would be good for her since you can avoid losing tokens by inflicting Broken with the vomit.
Surveillance should be good for her too since you can kick a gen, puke on it, and if they tap it they both alert you and get sick.
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
Really? I just tried this build on the ptb with a friend that plays PC amd we only tried with the Nurse, sucks to find Out It doesnt work with Billy :'(
I mean technically it does, but you can't chainsaw them.
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Trapper because he is on the cover art. Or Nurse because she would probably be the most functional (if it were a fighting game or something).
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If you're asking how much it goes down when you kick it, it doesn't go down. It just starts to regress at 0.25 c/s. It only goes down on the kick when you have PGTW.
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Not actually good for Billy. Infectious Fright only triggers when you down with your main weapon.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/361795#Comment_361795
Too bad I have an Xbox One instead of a PS4! 😭
If you have a One Drive you can upload clips directly to that and share it from Xbox. Also you could use http://xboxclips.com to share/download them as well.
Also you can set up you Xbox DVR to record up to 2 minutes automatically when you make a clip. Or just press Xbox button > back button (I call it the "with cheese button" because it looks like 2 slices of cheese) > select "record last 2 minutes" and boom you have a 2 minute clip, which is often plenty.
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@MaxiferPriest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/360642#Comment_360642
well yea but survivors have ######### op perks too. DS, sb... then they have insta heals, bnp's, good toolboxes that let's you finish a quick gens even faster... why do you think almoust no killer wants to play against a 4 survivors with toolboxes or medkits? :O
While it's true that some survivor perks allow for boosted survivors, that doesn't change that fact that some killer perks allow for boosted killers.
"But that guy started the fight, why am I getting arrested too?" Because you took a bottle and broke it over the guy's face.
The guilt of one side does not excuse the guilt of the other side.
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@Ryuhi said:
So literally anything is a crutch if someone uses it a lot and struggles without it I guess? How does that have less to do with issues that can exist in the game's core balance, and more to do with "well they must be bad git gud scrub?" It has absolutely no reason nor impact in discussion, and comes off more as gloating than being constructive.
Since there is no colorblind support (still) many people need to use perks that boost their tracking to make up for things that other killer players take for granted, like being able to even see blood. Does that make those crutches since they perform considerably worse without them? According to your context clause, they are requiring them to play adequately and thus they are a crutch, even though they are being used to offset a lack of accessibility in the game. Bloodhound, Stridor, Shadowborn, almost every perk can sometimes be considered necessary by players due to their inability to perform without them for various reasons other than "skill." Where do you draw the line?
Calm down. I'm not saying DR/M&A is a crutch, I'm saying it potentially can be depending on the context. Where you seem to be inclined to just say "any killer that uses NOED is boosted" which is just a huge over-generalization. You take a situation out of context to make it a very black or white affair, when in actuality it's all gray.
When it comes to the game's balance you have to look at what is more likely to be used as a crutch. It's like a sliding scale. DR/M&A is very unlikely to be a crutch, mainly because it's impact on the game will be very minimal. But NOED/Ruin have a very VERY large impact on the game and therefore are more likely to become crutches for a player. They can both single-handedly sway a game, whether the killer is good or not.
As for the colorblind stuff... that's a different story. We aren't talking about these fringe cases where someone has some disability they have to overcome in addition to game mechanics. We are talking purely about the game mechanics and what constitutes a boosted killer in those terms.
Again, if you can tell the difference between a boosted survivor that can't ever escape unless they are in an SWF and a skilled survivor that just happens to be in an SWF, you can tell the difference between a killer that is boosted by Ruin/NOED/whatever else and a skilled killer that is just using these perks.
@The_Crusader "Some killers do benefit from the set up time. It is possible to win without but often requires a much larger snowball."
Yea I'm not denying that a killer can benefit from the set up time gained by Ruin. I'm saying that it's not exactly necessary if you have a good strategy as you can stall the mid game and get a snow ball going there as well.
@TheEndOfSolace "I never use ruin unless I want a really chill game."
Yes this is what I'm saying. I put on Ruin so that I don't have to try nearly as hard to have a successful game. Sometimes it almost feels like Ruin is doing a chunk of the work for me in those games where it stays up. I can screw around a bit more and not worry about playing super well.
Like last night I played some games as Pig. One game my Ruin was in the top part of Blood Lodge and the survivors did not find it until after 2 were already dead, and they just barely finished 2 gens. I got the 4k (well 3k because I gave the last dude hatch, but I caught him and had him dead to rights so it counts) but it was a super chill game. And these survivors were no push overs, at least 2 of them were very solid survivors. The one Claudette had me chase her for quite some time before I caught her (I actually got Bloodlust 3 unintentionally because she was doing such a good job with jukes and windows), which if I didn't have Ruin would have probably lost me the game. And if I didn't have Ruin I wouldn't have chased her for so long, but since Ruin was keeping the gens down I knew I could afford to chase her for a while and do silly things (like trying to use ambush at safe pallets and stuff). Basically, Ruin turned the game into easy mode for me. That's why I say it can potentially be a crutch perk because in some context it makes the game so much easier for killers that they don't need to learn skills in map pressure. Ruin just does that work for them, so long as it's not found immediately (which is actually more often than people claim it would be).
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Enchanted Doll - When used, it will create an illusion of the survivor. This illusion will move around in a small area (10m?) and appear to perform certain actions (gen repair/totem cleanse/Self Care/etc.). If the killer attacks the illusion, all of their aura reading will be disabled and their aura will be revealed to all survivors for 15 seconds. The illusion expires after 30 seconds. One time use only.
Add-ons: duration of the illusion, range the illusion moves around/acts, added effects on the killer, and duration of effects on killer.
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@Ryuhi "If you consider any killer boosted unless they avoid using Ruin, and consider it a crutch in the same context as NOED, then your definition of boosted becomes incredibly arbitrary."
I never said ANY killer. I'm saying it boosts some killers in a similar way to how NOED boosts some killers. It comes down to how well you can adapt and play with different strategies. If you just can't ever win a game unless you use NOED or Ruin, then you are boosted. If you could have won a game without using NOED or Ruin, then you are likely not boosted. Again context matters.
Like if you can't play Myers unless you use Dead Rabbit and M&A, then in that context it is a crutch because you lack the skill to adapt to new strategies. That doesn't mean every Myers that uses DR/M&A is boosted, just that some may be. And I'm not saying that you have to play with different strategies every time either. If you enjoy playing Myers with that stuff, that's fine. It only becomes a crutch when you just CAN NOT succeed when playing something different.
Here is an example; Basketball.. if I can only shoot 3 pointers, does that make me a great player? Should I be drafted into the NBA? Not necessarily, because it depends on how well I do other stuff in the game too. Not the best example, but that's kind of what I'm trying to get at here.
"I mean you keep calling it a crutch by saying killers rely on it too much, but again that makes almost anything a crutch by that logic."
Yes, this is why context is important. There are so many factors in this game you can't make definitive statements about what is this or that without looking at the bigger picture. If you rely on anything, to the point that you simply cannot win without it, it is a crutch. If you can win without it, even if you use it, it's not a crutch. Ruin and NOED have more potential to be crutches because they have more impact on the outcome of the game than anything else, hence why I can say "this killer is boosted" because you can clearly see those times when a killer just can't win without them. Just like one could say "this survivor is boosted" because they can't escape unless they are in a 4 man SWF. If you can tell the difference between a boosted survivor in SWF and a skilled survivor that just happens to be in an SWF, then you can tell the difference between a boosted killer using Ruin/NOED and a skilled killer using Ruin/NOED.