Hex: Deal With The Devil
Hex: Deal With The Devil
Your bargaining skills have given you control over the actions of others.
When carrying a Survivor, activate your power to offer The Deal. The Survivor must press the Active Ability button to accept The Deal. Once accepted, the survivor instantly breaks free of your grasp as The Traitor and this Hex is applied to a dull totem on the map. While the Hex totem is active:
*Any Survivor that comes within 8m of The Traitor will have their aura revealed to the killer for 20 seconds. This effect is on a 80/60/40 second cooldown.
*The Traitor will never pass beyond the first Hook stage and will succeed in self unhook escape attempts 100% of the time.
*The Traitor is able to fully recover from Dying State and the bleed out timer will never expire.
*The Traitor cannot be killed by mori.
*The Traitor's Reverse Bear Trap timer will never expire and the trap will not activate at the Exit Gates.
*If The Traitor is the final survivor alive in the trial, both exit gates will open automatically. When this occurs, the Hex totem self destructs after 90 seconds.
*The Traitor is forbidden to leave the trial until at least 1 other Survivor has died. If all other Survivors have escaped the trial, the Hex totem self destructs.
If the Hex totem is destroyed, The Traitor is instantly consumed by The Entity. There can only be 1 Traitor per trial.
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The idea for this perk came to me in a dream.
Discuss!
Comments
So a killer perk that makes a survivor invincible? What exactly is the incentive for the killer to use this perk? And how do you reconcile this with the rules?
The Traitor is immune to being killed, but can still be hit/downed/hooked (as to make it seem like there was no Deal). In return, the Traitor can rat out other survivors for the killer. However, other survivors can kill the Traitor by destroying the totem.
So while the killer themselves cannot kill the Traitor, other survivors can. It turns them against each other. It's a means of disrupting the natural dynamics of the game such that survivors don't trust each other which will ultimately benefit the killer.
Well, it's free aura reading for the killer which is really strong!
Within 8 meters of an entity with full control of its movements, for 10 seconds every 40 seconds (at best).
SWF and plain common sense completely ######### on this idea. Just because the traitor is, well, a traitor, doesn't mean they have to betray the other survivors. They can just stay away, since the aura reading has such a short radius, and they're effectively invincible.
Then the killer is a fool for making the Deal.
Also I can guarantee you the some SWF groups will troll their friends by destroying the totem and killing them.
Numbers can be adjusted to benefit the killer better. Obviously it needs play testing, you are nitpicking the specifics too much here.
How is the killer to know if it's SWF or not, if the survivor will play their part or not, or anything, really? They can't, it's not possible unless they know the survivor personally.
It's not about numbers, the entire concept is bad.
Yea it's called "calculated risk". If you make the Deal and the Traitor takes advantage of you then you got suckered.
"*The Traitor is able to fully recover from Dying State and the bleed out timer will never expire.
*The Traitor cannot be killed by mori.
*The Traitor's Reverse Bear Trap timer will never expire and the trap will not activate at the Exit Gates."
Can't all of these be combined into a single "The traitor cannot die or be sacrificed?"
Also, I do have to ask: What stops the Traitor from body blocking the Totem? You can't exactly say that they're griefing their team if they're now being branded a "traitor."
It's not a calculated risk at all, it's just being stupid and trusting the opponent, like survivors did with the Wraith back when NOED wasn't a hex.
I would never use that perk, sorry.
Originally I wrote it as such but it was a full paragraph. Just saying "they can't die" isn't specific enough because how do hooks work? Dying state? RBT? That's why I wrote it that way.
And if the Traitor body blocks the totem then they aren't doing anything else of importance. Their goal should be to get all the other survivors killed.
No this is a really be idea
Are you saying that killers would never actually want to farm with survivors? That any killer that offers to farm is actually a troll that will kill you anyway?
You know this isn't true. Survivors have to be cautious when trusting a killer, therefore it stands to reason that a killer must be cautious when trusting survivors as well. It's not meant to be a guarantee just a means of screwing with survivors (or rather making them screw with themselves). If you make the Deal and it goes south, that's your fault for trusting the wrong player.
Because the survivor can't be killed by the killer? I'm loving how everyone focuses on that and not on the fact that this would actually make survivors screw each other over. They can still be killed, only it has to be by another survivor (or themselves if they choose to do it).
Think outside your little box people. Survivors would indeed screw each other over if given the chance for a free escape.
Though perhaps there can be a stipulation that says the Traitor cannot escape the trail unless at least 1 other survivor has been killed or sacrificed.
EDIT: Added a new rule. See OP.
Here's the thing: if this perk worked the way you imagine it did, it would benefit both the killer and the survivor. If this perk worked the way everyone knows it would, it would only benefit the survivor. In other words, this perk is guaranteed to benefit the survivor, but will almost never benefit the killer. It's useless.
If they're body blocking the Totem, the Survivors now have one less player assisting them and must now deal with a Killer who can now spot anyone hiding nearby. If the Traitor legitimately teams up with the Killer, the Killer just got a massive shift in momentum that the other Survivors really can't do anything about because bodyblocking. That doesn't seem like good design to me.
Then the other survivors should just act like they are a man short, which is how it supposed to work. A smart Traitor wouldn't give away both the totem location and the fact they are a Traitor, especially with the new last rule that says they will be killed if everyone else escapes.
Again it's the whole point of the perk to disrupt the normal survivor/killer dynamic.
Also increased aura reading to 20 seconds to make it that much more powerful.
1) Survivors would indeed screw each other over. You are given them too much credit. They already do this without the need to benefit them.
2) See the last rule. Killer makes the deal and guarantees at least 1 kill now.
@Jigmac gets it! See how easy it would be to get screwed as the Traitor? It's a risk on their end too. You can't be sure a survivor won't try to kill you by destroying the totem, either accidentally or on purpose.
Why would a Traitor care at all about giving away the Totem's location and their Traitor-ness if they can just bodyblock the Totem?
1) Dude survivors screw each other all the time. Just look at hatch and how often 1 survivor will let another die so they can hatch. Survivors are jerks, period. You will see benefit from this as killer so long as you aren't foolish with who you give the deal. You have WAY too much faith that survivors will be loyal to each other. SWF will totally have a ball with this perk because some groups just love to screw over their friends.
2) How is this different that any other Hex totem? Or something like Remember Me or Blood Warden where the gates never get powered?
You are grasping at straws here. You just want to ######### on the idea because you don't like to think outside the box.
See the updated OP. If they just stand there and do nothing all game and the other 3 escape, the Traitor dies. If you just sit there and block the totem (which can only happen in some spots BTW) then you are just going to die at the end of the game.
I'm saying this idea is bad because I think it's bad. If you didn't want opinions, you shouldn't have posted this on an open forum.
Unless the traitor’s aura is always revealed to the killer
@Orion check the OP. If the Traitor doesn't do something to get someone else killed they die, so it would no longer be an absolute benefit to them.
"Rolling the dice" yes exactly. It's a calculated risk like I said. It can guarantee you a kill if you calculate right.
You can have an opinion but you are clearly just focused on survivors being goody two shoes and always throwing the deal back in your face. The truth is that this would happen very rarely, survivors screw each other over all the time and I guarantee you that they have in games you've been in. Either you genuinely didn't notice or you are just lying. Look at all the complaints about survivors working with killers or purposely doing nothing all game to take hatch. Those players would take the deal every time and screw over the others.
Again think outside the box. Stop focusing on how this benefits survivors and actually stop to think for a moment how it would benefit killers, because it would 99% of the time. The 1% where it doesn't, then the killer made a bad decision, just like everything else that could happen in the game.
I like the idea.
I would use this perk in fun builds and for rp reasons!
Would love to see more cool and thematic perks that are telling a story.
(Devour Hope, Rancor, Dying Light ect)
This could be a thing, but then it subverts the aura reading on other survivors. The point of the cooldown is to give the normal survivors a chance to get away otherwise the Traitor could just follow them all game and they never have a chance to counter the perk. Also if the Traitor decides to turn back on the deal they need a way to do that, and giving the killer constant aura on them would remove that option.
3v2 when those three have 5 gens to do? This would make gameplay grossly unbalanced. Also, why would Traitor be invincible? Survivors can't attack, and the killer wouldn't kill his own ally anyway. It would be obvious to other survivors the guy who runs over followed by the killer.
@thesuicidefox
This would work better as hex perk if this applied to the obsession after being hooked. The obsession wouldn’t know that it is activated. Allowing you to see the auras of the survivors that is near the obsession and maybe give the obsession benefit like dying light. Otherwise, this perk could be abused.
Lol, this would be a meme perk to run. The concept itself sounds fun (and kinda funny, a survivor screwing the others over) but I dont think in gameplay people would like it, especially the traitors teammates
The go do the totem and kill the bastard ;)
Yea that's the idea to get survivors to turn on each other. IDK if you ever heard of a game called Deceit on PC but it's a similar concept, in that if you are good at being a Traitor you can hide that fact from other survivors. Just following them around and meme-ing would give it away and they might go looking for the totem, so instead you do gens and heal like a normal survivor but do little things to get others killed. The purpose is to make survivors not trust each other.
Like one next level mind game would be to do the totem but never finish it. So a survivor see you on it, their aura is revealed so killer comes to get them and you get off the totem. Maybe the time to do the totem is extended for the Traitor so they can do this without accidentally killing themselves.
I'm not following this logic. By the Survivor simply accepting the offer and jettisoning themselves from team Survivor, the Killer's job is suddenly made a fair bit easier. The Traitor not doing anything does not mean the Killer has a harder time getting the job done. The Traitor can try to aid the Killer through sandbagging and stuff, but why would they if it would risk leaving the Totem unguarded? They are better off protecting the Totem and risking death through a 3-man escape than aiding the killer and risking death through Totem cleansing.
Also, "some Totems being made completely inaccessible through Traitor bodyblocking" is still not good gameplay.
Because if you're not ratting out other survivors they do gens and escape. Yea they are handicapped by you not doing gens, but it seems like more of a risk to not be actively trying to get them killed as opposed to waiting and just hoping they are bad enough/killer is good enough to kill them.
Guys you have to consider most of this stuff needs play testing to iron out the kinks. Maybe the Traitors collision could break when within X range of the totem to avoid body blocking if it's an issue. You guys are way too focused on the minor details and not looking at the big picture.
I do not agree with your assessment. It only takes one Survivor dying to prevent the Totem self-destructing, which should not be the hardest thing in the world if the Killer now only has to worry about three Survivors. Try to estimate the percentage of games where a Killer does not kill any Survivors vs. the percentage of games where a Hex Totem manages to last the whole game without getting cleansed. To me, it seems like a no-brainer to choose to guard the Totem. As far as changing the collision of the Traitor, perhaps I could be wrong, but it seems like it would be more trouble than it would be worth to implement such a thing.
I believe this idea is really cool on paper but problematic in execution.
Hence why it would need play testing. Maybe it requires 2 survivors to die. Maybe the totem is hidden to the Traitor (thus they don't know which to body block). There are solutions we just need to test it and work out the kinks.
Simply put, I think this idea is in one of those awkward positions where it's super difficult, if not impossible, to balance the idea without making it too strong or too weak. If you make the deal sweet enough that the would-be Traitor would take the deal, you risk giving the Killer too much momentum all at once. If you deliberately try to keep things in check to prevent that from happening, you eventually just end up with a bad deal that no Survivor would want to take.
Nope
I like traitor perks or smth surv vs surv
Support+
But it's a high risk/high reward. The killer can offer the deal and no survivors accept it, therefore making it a wasted perk slot. A survivor could also be killed by another, which benefits the killer slightly but they don't get the full use out of the perk. They could also get a survivor that uses the deal against them. Again the minutia of the perks effects require testing, we can't possibly theory craft all the ways in which it would be used. I wrote it out like you would see on the perk's card just because, you guys need to look at the bigger picture of what the perk would do: survivor is given a deal where killer can no longer kill them directly but now the survivor has to work with the killer or they will definitely still die, either from not honoring the deal or from other survivors killing them directly. That's the basic concept I want to get across here.
I've won games 1v3 after someone got tunnelled to death or just died because they were bad. It's entirely do-able to win in those situations, so long as you neutralize the threat as survivor (by destroying the totem and killing the Traitor ASAP).
Guys this perk isn't meant to be a meta perk. It's meant to be a fun perk that just changes the natural dynamic of the game, that dynamic being "killer kills survivors because survivors are the enemy". And unlike most other stuff in the game it doesn't directly affect the speed at which things are done or give the killer a faster way to kill survivors (other than being able to find them easily through the aura reading).
If it's a hex and can be destroyed it needs to be powerful ------> remove the cooldown theres no need for it if it can be removed permanently...
I agree, however I think that a cooldown might be necessary to add some room for counter play. Otherwise it would be overpowered. Again this stuff needs testing to iron out the kinks.