thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
About
- Username
- thesuicidefox
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/819539#Comment_819539
If people are looking for totems then they are waiting out Corrupt Intervention at the same time, thus if they counter Ruin by going over and cleansing the totem then they are also countering corrupt Intervention at the same time by waiting it out. And by making them run around at the start of the game a Survivor will see more of the map and is more likely to find a totem before any generators have popped or any Survivors have been downed.
That makes sense, but you are limiting the gens they can do under the influence of Ruin with CI. So if you get a group that chooses to do gens through Ruin you still have fewer gens to patrol, and if you use a different totem, like I said, it can benefit you if the totem spawned near a blocked gen as it won't be found as quickly.
-
If I think I can get the pallet dropped quickly I will chase at shack. Otherwise I try to avoid it when I can. Even if you know how to run it, if the survivor does too they kind of have the advantage as long as the pallet is there.
I've only recently started to play Clown so I couldn't tell you the best way to do it with him. What I'll do though is toss a bottle on the inside to force a slow vault or a pallet drop, but it doesn't always work.
-
Oh gawd, if I hear that song in game I'll mori myself, thank you.
-
CI and Ruin/totems can be used together, I kind of disagree with you there. If you have both then you just slow them down even more on the few gens they can do. I imagine it would go like; survivor spawns near blocked gen, spends time searching for open gen, starts repairs on open gen, gets Ruin skill check, goes looking for Ruin. Where without CI you just skip the first 2 steps there.
And if you have say Devour Hope, if you get some good RNG and your totem is near a blocked gen that means it won't get found so quickly, so it can benefit you there.
Though I do see your logic in thinking this, I wouldn't say it's really that bad to run CI with totems. It might not be optimal, but it's definitely not detrimental, and if you get lucky it could be very beneficial, more so than just one or the other by themselves.
Good analysis though. I personally have moved away from Ruin on my killers because at red ranks on Xbox most survivors just plow through gens anyway, or find the totem in 30 seconds. I find the Sloppy/Thana/Dying Light combo to be significantly more effective at slowing the game, even though it takes more effort on your part and a bit of time to get rolling. But once you get 4 tokens on DL and at least 3 injured, the game just STOPS for survivors. And for killers like GF or Spirit the fact they are always injured too makes it just that much better.
-
Unlikely, unless Death Garden makes its way to consoles. I doubt it though, from what I've heard the game wasn't doing too well and they aren't going to port a failing game.
-
@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/819255#Comment_819255
idk man Spirits power is broken right now and makes the sound even inside the Terror Radius. Its not helping people get away. I still move twice as fast as them and they still have absolutely no idea where I am. The only thing it would help would be the standing still "mindgame."
It's inconsistent though, and very hard to hear. You have to be really actively listening to hear to footsteps and the range is smaller than 6m.
I'm saying making it more prominent. If you hear the footsteps she is within lunge range, so you have some info that can help you dodge the attack. Dodging the attack and/or being far enough away when she ends phase walk is how you beat her power, because she is a 110 killer for the next 15 seconds. That's literally how I win against Spirits and how most survivors win against my Spirit. They dodge the phase walk lunge or are too far away to get a hit soon after exiting phase walk.
Like as I started typing this I got a game against a Spirit. I lead her on a wild goose chase around the main building on Mother's Dwelling for a solid 4 minutes. Unfortunately it was all for naught since I had 2 teammates DC before we even did 1 gen, but if they didn't that's an easy 4 gen chase right there. Half the time I'm listening for her footsteps (simple stereo headset BTW because my Astro's are charging) and just doing squirrelly #########, or vaulting a window knowing she can't make it to the other side in time.
It's really not impossible to run this killer like you guys keep claiming. Despite that, I'll concede that maybe there should be some things to make the verse Spirit experience better, hence my suggestions. But literally telling survivors "I AM PHASE WALKING" will kill her so hard. That's the entire point of her power, and if you take that away she isn't nearly as strong, so every one of those types of suggestions are just pure nerfs, and therefore not valid solutions.
Also part of the reason it doesn't help most players is because majority of survivors are just flat potatoes against Spirit. They over think every situation and do really stupid things like slow vault the pallet into what they think is the husk. That's like, the absolute WORST move to make, yet people continuously do it then complain about it. Just stop doing that, look at what options she ACTUALLY has to get you and play as if she is both standing still AND phase walking. The counter play options will open up. That's how you beat that trick, but very VERY few survivors can actually maintain the composure to pull it off.
-
Some games have consecutive match bonus to encourage people to just tough it out when they know they will probably lose. I think this is a good start, reward people for not quitting.
Of course you still need to punish those that quit excessively, the problem is how do you punish them in a way that is ACTUALLY punishment?
If you do something with bloodpoints/shards, well not every player cares about this so it's not a good solution. Same if you do something with rank/pips.
Can't remove Auric Cells because that's paid and probably illegal somewhere.
Time out penalties just end up pushing people out of the game and end up punishing the wrong people more often than not.
Some sort of jail system where you get matched with other frequent quitters might help. The catch is that lobby wait times are already pretty high so this makes it worse for everyone, not just those jailed.
It's a tricky problem to solve at least when you want to punish DC's. That's why I think the first step should be rewarding NOT DC'ing, as that could help a good amount without causing other issues.
-
"But most important is that when she's using her power, you can't actually tell if she's using it or not. That's the big problem with Spirit."
See this is what upsets me about every argument against the Spirit right now.
THIS IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF HER POWER. She is meant to be confusing. You are not meant to know exactly when she is phase walking. It's what makes her as good as she is. Literally every proposed "fix" for her involves basically adding a neon sign above her head that says "I AM PHASE WALKING" which is such a huge nerf to her power I can't even put it into words.
Better solutions:
1) Remove the ability to grab during post phase walk when using Prayer Beads. She no longer gets easy grabs and instead has to go for an attack. She still can get a potential free hit but it leads to a chase, not a guaranteed hook.
2) Increase the sound of her footsteps within 6m but outside of the husk's TR. This gives the survivor some indication where she is and that they should start juking to avoid the hit.
3) Add a slight echo to audio she hears during phase walk. This increases the amount of skill needed to track during phase walk and means that she has to make predictions more often than reactions.
These would address most of the issues people seem to have with her without gutting her core design.
-
Agreed. Haddonfield is really bad. Not sure how they could change it, but it needs to be fixed ASAP.
-
Everything Doctor.
- Constantly scream to reveal your position.
- Rubber band back across every window vault.
- Literal walking lag spike with the screams and notifications.
- Free slugs by putting you into Madness 3 and you can't heal.
- Snap Out before Mend. Nuff said.
- 3 gen strat where they refuse to commit to a single chase for 45 minutes.
IDC if he can be looped his kit is full of some serious BS.
EDIT: Also playing against any Myers trying to get Evil Incarnate because they will literally refuse to kill you if you use a locker to avoid the tombstone then beg for you to give it to them and then complain they deserve it when they really didn't.
-
@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/818613#Comment_818613
that is SOMETIMES right, but usually the perk just encourages some WGLF davids to rush in and hookfarm the poor dude without even giving the killer the chance to leave.
this leads to them being tunneled and killed very early on for something they dont have any control over, which is BS.
This is so untrue. Majority of the time when the killer sees you made the save with BT, they will come after you instead. Not to mention sometimes rushing those saves with BT is a smart play because it puts pressure on the killer.
Again I would rather get farmed with BT than sit on a hook until I'm dead. One scenario you have a chance to escape. The other you are just dead, period.
-
@DarkGGhost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/818613#Comment_818613
Again you can use BT to safe and have the full effect but you will not get the event "Safe unhook".
But why? All that does is discourage people from even attempting the save even if they were prepared for it. Makes no sense.
Would you rather...
A) Sit on the hook for 2 minutes and die because no one wants the unsafe hook penalty?
B) Get yanked off the hook and given BT so that you have a chance to get away even if the killer is camping you?
I'd take option B any day. Heck, they don't even need to have BT honestly, because you could have DS or Adren or something else to get away. Anything, ANYTHING is better than sitting on the hook and dying because no one wants to save you.
-
@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/818524#Comment_818524
because it only encourages unsafe hoor rescues and usually leads to the unhooked being tunneled and killed early on, which is no fun at all for them.
No you don't understand.
Sometimes there IS NO SAFE RESCUE. It's just not an option. You therefore need BT to make those rescues safe.
-
The whole point of BT is to guarantee a safe rescue. I'm having a hard time understanding why you think it shouldn't count as a safe hook if they get hit. Sometimes, if the killer is camping, there is literally no way to ensure a safe rescue.
-
As dumb as this is and in need of a fix, you should really just play without stalking. He becomes way more effective when you use his power mainly for stealth. I only stalk in specific situations, like as a means to locate survivors I might not see myself or if I catch like 3 survivors on the same gen and they don't see me. Otherwise I just sneak up and hit them.
-
@Cyro said:
I just find it funny that everyone will preach that Spirit is fair and balanced and that there are reliable counters to play against her. Yet none of them have posted ANY evidence backing up this opinion, there was Groot posting about what Marth said about her but that was it. Every single streamer I've seen (bar Tru) have voiced their concerns about the Spirit and have brought up a good argument with conclusive evidence to back up their claim.
All you people are really saying is ''go for windows, fake things!'' This. Is. Not. Counterplay.
You can't tell what on earth she is going to do, is it REALLY too much to ask for the Spirit to get some sort of telltale sign attached to her so you can at least tell when she's phasing? And before you say ''but duh glass lights up!!'' this has already been proven false by a lot of youtubers so don't make this argument again.
If you find Spirit fun to fight against, good for you, but from a balance standpoint she simply isn't fair to fight. Yes, she might be FUN to fight for certain players, but she isn't FAIR to fight. And yes killers shouldn't be fair to fight blah blah, but every single killer has some form of counterplay.
Why is Spirit the only exception to this rule?
People have given video evidence how to counter Spirit, but the anti-Spirit group always dismisses it as "Spirit bad". We could give you guys the most clear as day evidence ever and you will find a way to discredit it. Yet if we do the same, "survivors bad" then y'all just ignore those comments.
The anti-Spirit group is an echo chamber. No one is willing to accept any evidence to the contrary because being right is more important than the truth.
-
@newavitar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/816657#Comment_816657
I feel like removing the injured music should be a QOL change, not an actual perk aspect. But yes I agree.
The vault change could be abused extremely easily and has little to do with the perk itself so I don't quite agree
I agree that something should be given in terms of bloodpoints. Honestly all of it makes sense cause doing anything while injured is risky, so bonus points to everything I would agree with
The thing with the vaults is that you are permanently injured, so it's only fair to give you a slight edge in a chase you wouldn't have otherwise. I don't see how it could be abused considering that you are always 1 hit away from dying.
-
1) Remove injured music.
2) Always perform fast vaults when rushing a vault.
3) Increase Bloodpoint earnings in all categories by 100% (not a post-game buff like WGLF/BBQ, instead it is an EARNINGS buff like Prove Thyself or Distressing).
-
Not a pun but...
How many survivors does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
I don't know, they DC before I turn the light back on 🤣🤣🤣🤣
-
I agree. Spirit is a lot harder to play than people claim. The ones making the claim either never actually played her at high ranks, or were amazing at killer already and the transition was super easy (because most of playing killer is the same regardless of who you play, it's only the details that are different really).
Also people said Nurse is hard to learn and I disagree. I'm on Xbox, I played her exclusively for 2 days and was dominating some groups. I don't consider myself a great Nurse but she's definitely easier to play than people claim. Learn how blinks work, that's all there is to it. (Not to say she is EASY to play, just EASIER than the claims).
-
@Revansith said:
Every match is a choice. You can do the daily ritual and risk failing or succeeding. You can delete the daily ritual and not care if you ever do the daily.
But the Rift challenges are meant to be harder than the daily rituals in some cases, or require you to break your normal game style... example disturbing 25 crows.
Above all the game should be fun. If you are not having fun try to do something in the game that is.
"Harder" is not the same as "impossible".
"Kill all 4 survivors of a trail by any means" is a challenge.
"Kill all 4 survivors in the basement" is basically impossible unless you want to throw multiple games in a row until you get some good RNG. Not to mention DC's.
Also the fact that the Rift items are tied to progress and you basically MUST do all the challenges to get those items is kind of a big deal. Dailies give you BP and if you chose to not do them or delete them it won't really hurt you. Can't say the same for Rift.
-
I thought Huntress was said to be the most ancient killer before Plague cam out, and she's from WW1 era.
-
The killer you are best with. No point in picking Nurse or Spirit if you're not very good with them. You want to pick your strongest killer, and your strongest build.
You also need to play excessively dirty to win. Camp, tunnel, slug, whatever you need to do to win because you have to. The survivors will probably hate you for it, but sometimes it's the only way.
-
@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815778#Comment_815778
See here is the problem I have with the fighting game analogy. You say even with 50/50s you can predict your opponent eventually and make a decision based off of that.
First of all, its not a 50/50. The Spirit has way more information than you. She moves almost twice your speed while phasing so even if she commits to a wrong direction and then hears you somewhere else she can still rectify it and go back.
Even then, lets assume it is a 50/50. You said you analyze the player and make predictions, not guesses, off of that. This works in fighting games because you have 3 rounds of multiple hits to figure out your opponent.
This is not at all the case in DBD. To compare it back to your fighting game example, it would be like if every move every opponent did was a 50/50 and instead of it taking 20 hits to K.O an opponent, it takes two hits. Not even the greatest FGC players alive can analyze and find a pattern in an opponent in two hits. Its impossible. You're just guessing. You tell yourself you mindgamed them when you guess right, and say you misplayed when you guess wrong. That's it. You can't tell who the killer player is before hand, you can't study what she's doing with her power until she's basically already downed you with it, and even then, you have basically no sample size and its not even close to enough repetition to find a pattern you can exploit in your opponent.
Even staunch Spirit supporters like tru3 say they "guessed wrong" when they are downed by her.
It is 50/50 because it's independent of the initiating player. The one setting up the 50/50 already knows what they are going to do, so all that matters is your ability to predict what they will do.
As for the lack of info part this isn't exactly true. If you run through a pallet, just the first time, and see the killer respects it then you already have enough info to know they will likely respect it in the future. You really don't need a huge sample size to be able to predict someone, just "what did they do last time". And while the killer could have purposely done this to condition you (a form of mind game) most players will not actively do this unless they suspect you will predict them (ie. you played them before or otherwise showed that you are a smart player).
Like what else would explain how when I get those handful of really good survivors that understand how to play against a Spirit and they just outright predict everything I'm doing even before I did it? Are they really just guessing or are they seeing patterns in my behavior, OR more likely going by experience of what a Spirit player may generally do.
As far as Tru saying he is guessing... saying you guess wronged and actually guess wrong are two different things. He could just be saying it that way to convey he made a mistake, because it's just more common to say "I guess wrong" than "I make the wrong read". I wouldn't read too far into those statements he makes live in the moment it happens.
Like when it comes to red stain mind games, you can "guess right" or "guess wrong" on the very first chase. It's more experience of what to do than experience against that specific player.
Sorry I just don't see any of this as guessing. I've had really good survivors consistently outplay me as Spirit, and I'm not exactly a "bad Spirit" as most people would argue. If what you are saying is true, then these players wouldn't be so outright consistent in their reads. I would catch them at least 50% of the time but that doesn't happen.
Also like I said in your post about your survey, I think PC players have a problem with Spirit because she was just less common pre-nerf Nurse. Now that Nurse is slightly less viable, more players are playing Spirit and since majority of survivors are complete potatoes against her, yea it will seem like she has no counter play. But here on Xbox, Spirit is super common at red ranks. At least 1 in 3 games is Spirit (or more, sometimes you get like 5 games in a row that's Spirit), so Xbox players are just more used to playing against her and as such have found ways to play around her. I do it myself (against good Spirits) and have had it done to me (a good Spirit), so I can't buy into this Spirit hate train that's going on because I don't see these issues.
-
@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815892#Comment_815892
I question this. BL would only pop once in a chase, so they can't keep reusing the loop if BL is crucial to it.
No it's still an infinite without the speed boost. It's the fact you recover from a fall faster than makes it infinite.
-
Haddonfield has a true infinite at the Myers house if the window at the top of the basement steps spawns and the survivor has Balanced Landing.
There are also several true infinites against Huntress on some tiles, like Wretched Shop or Storehouse depending on the orientation of windows.
Most spots that people call infinites are really semi-infinite. But since this game is all about time they might as well be infinites because by the time you catch the guy the game will be over.
-
@Xerge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815757#Comment_815757
Yeah, I understand that and I think you missed my point; do not focus so much on ds, focus on what I'm saying; If a killer is good at finding survivors and good at ending chases he would be able to rush through kills if it wasn't for the current state of ds, but it's the current state of ds that forces you tu slug survives and wait a a few seconds before you can hook them again.
What I'm saying is that survivors are able to rush through gens while killers are not able to rush through kills. How do you feel about that?
I'm not asking how to deal with ds.
Right but what I'm saying is if you got hit by DS then you didn't play optimally. Rushing a DS kill means waiting for DS to end before picking them up. It know it seem counter-intuitive, but that is the play to make to optimize the speed at which you can kill. It's the same thing as a survivor waiting for a killer to be in TR range to make a BT save, or waiting to open a door to avoid Blood Warden, because NOT waiting will actually result in less optimal play. Timing is important, and sometimes you need to wait for the right time to do something. Optimal play isn't just doing things as fast as you can absolutely, it's doing this as fast as you can such that you maintain your advantage. They are two different things.
Like in car races, you could in theory go around every corner as fast as possible. But doing this might risk you crashing, so it would actually be more optimal to slow down on the turns to avoid crashing. Not the best example but you get the idea.
Now if you mean that killers get punished for completely outplaying survivors, because they don't get enough Chase/Malicious points to pip, yes I agree with that being dumb. If you totally stomp a group you should be rewarded for that and not need to be forced to play less optimally to get a pip. That's a bit upsetting to me, and I can feel the pain of every Billy main out there when they have to deal with this. So for this part, I agree it should be fixed somehow.
-
@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815738#Comment_815738
It isn't impossible to predict consistently but it's very luck based for the most part.
Like I said, spirit doesn't do much guessing, they are reacting for the most part. Survivors do almost no reacting and pure guessing ,that's why it is so unenjoyable to go against her for a lot of players. Especially after you are injured, there isn't much you can do at all unless she makes a mistake, since she can hear your grunts.
No it's not luck. Stop saying it's luck. If you see a pattern in behavior and can predict with good accuracy what the other player will do, that is NOT luck. Luck is when something happens to benefit you that you did not plan for. If I'm walking around and Ghostface just go strolling by in Night Shroud, just happens to be facing away from me and didn't see me, THAT is luck. Predicting what another player will do with high accuracy is the opposite of luck.
The sooner you stop thinking about countering Spirit in terms of "guessing" and "luck" the sooner you will learn howto actually counter her.
-
@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815727#Comment_815727
All that I've gathered from this is you need to work on your Spirit lol
Sure. I'm rank 1, I play without Ruin or NOED or Prayer Beads and consistently win games. I've been told by several survivors that I'm one of the best Spirit's they ever faced (also best old Freddy, new Freddy, and Ghostface). But sure I need to work on my Spirit. SMH
90% of survivors are easy pickings as Spirit. Like I can immediately tell you will be easy to catch during the first chase. The other 10% of survivors are the ones I'm talking about. The ones that actually know what to do. In fact I'm probably exaggerating this number, it's probably more like 3% of survivors. But when you get one of those survivors, it's a totally different ball game. You have to be on point to outplay them. They will read every move you do and never fall for silly tricks like the stand still trick.
Furthermore, I've run from very good Spirits for extended periods myself. In fact just last week I was able to run from a very good Spirit for well over 4 minutes (3 gens) and we got at least a 3e because of this (as she just refused to let me go, if she did then I might have been the only one to escape). She caught all my friends super fast. They weren't a challenge for her. I predict her moves every time and ran for 4 minutes AND STILL ESCAPED THE CHASE! I sent them a GG and dude told me "I haven't had a challenge like that in a long time". I've had at least 2 different Spirits, good ones, tell me exactly this. It is indeed possible to run from a Spirit, and just because I say I've been outplayed as Spirit doesn't mean I'm a bad Spirit (especially when I've been told I'm a good Spirit many many times over).
-
If you got DS'ed you aren't playing optimally, it's really that simple. Survivors with DS will bait you into using it or play super risky when it's active. Therefore anytime you think you outplayed a survivor with DS more than likely they LET YOU out play them so they can hit you with DS.
The optimal play against DS is to slug.
-
@PistolTimb said:
Bhvr: the Spirit is overperforming Considerably, she will be nerfed Tremendously. /s
Transparency goes a long way. A lot of these discussions feel like echo chambers. Everybody already has their minds made up about how they feel about the spirit one way or another. I pray the devs keep a level head, and make necceasry changes without gutting her power.
Agree. The echo chamber is real. This is why I can seriously respect TrueTalent, because regardless of what you think of him he is at least brave enough to go against the echo. He forms his own opinions independent of others.
-
@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815657#Comment_815657
Her counter play comes down to "you guessed right" in most situations. Meanwhile she can see your scratch marks, see you moving the grass, hear your grunts of pain, breathing, footsteps, can literally collide with you and doesn't really guess much. She constantly reacts to survivors actions but survivors play random guessing games. That's the point. If you count guessing right as a counter play then sure, she has plenty of counterplays.
You act like it's impossible to predict another player consistently.
Look up 50/50 mixups in regards to fighting games. That is literally what Spirit does, yet you don't see FGC players complaining about 50/50 mixups, because it comes down to prediction. Humans are creatures of habits, we have predictable behavior patterns. And they are hard if not impossible to overcome. No human can ever play a game and make completely random decisions. There will be a pattern. If you realize this pattern you can "guess right" as you put it more often than you "guess wrong".
I've chased survivors that "guess right" almost every time I try any sort of trick on them as Spirit. It's because they were able to predict me consistently by seeing my patterns.
Based on your perspective, it would be impossible for anyone to consistently win at Poker. Yet we have very clear examples of that being false. Therefore, it is entirely possible to consistently predict what a Spirit play will do and act accordingly. There is very little "guessing" involving. If you are guessing you are inherently doing it wrong.
-
@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815709#Comment_815709
It's pretty simple. Those perks aren't a necessity against those killers as you can still do things. Spirit is Spirit.
Sorry I don't see Iron Will being necessary. It will make a huge difference, like the perks I mentioned, but you can still play around the Spirit. People act like she's absolutely impossible to beat, yet I main Spirit AND USE STRIDOR and there are still survivors without Iron Will that run me for a good amount of time because they make smart decisions. Decisions like using particular windows, or doing some weird movements to dodge the attack out of phase walk, or dropping pallets early to force me to go around and I end up losing my power before reaching them. It can be done. Iron Will just makes it significantly easier, as all these other perks do for those respective killers.
-
@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815136#Comment_815136
If you'd like, we can hop in a custom game and you can show me how you'd counter tunneling or camping without Decisive Strike or Borrowed Time. I'm willing to be proven wrong if you're up for it.
The point is that bringing a perk to counter a general behaviour that you can face regardless of who you're playing against is okay (e.g. Camping, any killer can camp). Bringing a perk to counter one specific thing is not. You cannot expect everyone to run a perk to counter something specific unless they know in advance what they're facing.
The thing is, Iron Will is a top tier perk. It was listed as being the 5th most used at red ranks when you guys released that data set a while ago, meaning that if a player chose to play any off-meta perk (Adren/DS/BT/DH) it would most likely be Iron Will.
It would be one thing if Iron Will was a niche perk, but it's a very strong perk that is useful against all killers. Same with Spine Chill. These perks have more uses than just countering one specific killer.
Also what about Calm Spirit? If you want to hard counter Doc's power then you will need Calm Spirit. There is no other way to avoid his power outside of just avoiding any kind of interaction via lockers (which is counter productive to the survivor's goal since they will waste tons of time sitting in a locker doing all of nothing). Yet no one seems to complain about Calm Spirit being needed to counter Doc, probably because Doc is still victim to loops and Calm Spirit is actually a niche perk.
I honestly just don't see the issue. I hate Doc. With a passion. If I had the power I would literally delete him from the game. When I start getting a lot of Doc's I put on Calm Spirit to deal with it. It has other interesting uses outside of countering Doc, but let's face it the main reason to use this perk is to counter Doc. Yet I never complain about needing to do that, particularly because Calm Spirit will CRUSH every Doc not using restraint add-ons. Same with Spirit, Iron Will will crush most of the Spirits you will face, to the point it's basically night and day. So if you want to hard counter this exact killer, put on Iron Will. It's really not that big of a deal, especially since Iron Will is top tier and not niche, you will get benefit from it regardless of the killer (except Plague because it doesn't work when you are sick).
Sorry I just can't buy into this "using a perk to counter a killer is bad" philosophy when the perk in question is top tier, useful against EVERY killer (but particularly useful against the killer people have an issue with), and when there are other instances of perks being used to hard counter killers. Here's a few more
Hag - Urban Evasion
Huntress/Nurse - Dead Hard
Ghostface/Pig/Myers/Wraith - Spine Chill
Trapper/Hag - Small Game
Doc - Calm Spirit
Plague/Legion - Resilience
But no one complains about these, they only complain about using Iron Will on Spirit.
-
IIRC the devs said this is something they are working on but don't have a fix yet. I also remember them saying they will refund the Auric Cells in the future after they fix the issue and identify the affected players. Be patient.
-
@HamdaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815527#Comment_815527
watch any good spirit player you dont need me for that lmfaoooo theres tons of spirit gameplay but no actual evicence of consistent counterplay
He is saying if she is supposed to be so broken then anyone can easily 4k with her. As such you should be able to make a video of you doing this consistently against any survivors, particularly good survivors, since if there is indeed no counter play to Spirit then your skill as killer and the survivor skill should be irrelevant.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Claiming she is broken overpowered and has no counter play is the claim, therefore you should be able to prove exactly this.
EDIT: Additionally, it seems anytime someone presents evidence contrary to the popular belief that Spirit has no counter play it gets dismissed as "bad Spirit not real counter play". So even if when we provide evidence it is ignored.
-
The problem is that this "guessing" aspect of her power is inherent to what she is meant to do. Pretty much every "solution" proposed boils down to "tell me she is phase walking" which completely defeats the purpose of her power. You can't do this and NOT completely gut her at the same time. It's the reason she was weak when he animation was bugged, because you knew with certainty she was phase walking and it made it really easy to play against her. It's also the reason she was weak on PTB because you knew where she was while phasing due to direction wooshing.
No the solution to this issue has to be something intuitive. Doing anything that gives concrete information about anything she does is a flat out nerf, and a big one. Her entire power is MEANT to be confusing. That's the point. Remove that and she basically has no power.
-
There is also the factor of survivors just giving up and instead playing to meme, or purposely dying on hook. I know at least 1 person that will stop trying if it's a Spirit, but he doesn't DC he just starts to meme or do other silly things because he stopped caring about the game. This would be IMPOSSIBLE for the devs to filter out and I'm willing to bet this happens more often than it should because a lot of survivors are spiteful.
Prayer Beads is also another factor. Like if the devs could filter out all games where Prayer Beads were used I feel like she wouldn't be "over performing", indicating an issue with that add-on and not the killer herself.
I just hope whatever they change they don't listen to the people basically asking for a neon sign above her head that says "I AM PHASE WALKING" because that defeats the entire purpose of her power, to be confusing and force mistakes. We need a more intuitive solution, one that keeps this aspect of her power intact while improving the experience for survivors.
-
Now that I can finally post again...
Just wanted to bounce into this thread to make a few points.
1) As someone that did professional survey development your questions are honestly a tad biased, which can influence the results. You do use a sort-of-Likert scale, so I applaud you for that, but the wording has to be as neutral as possible. I'd like to give examples but I honestly cannot remember the EXACT wording of the questions (I did the survey yesterday during work) but I do remember thinking to myself "this question is biased". If you want more concrete results you need neutral questions.
2) Posting it to the forums and even to your own Youtube probably won't yield enough results to draw any meaningful conclusions. Furthermore, anyone that follows you on Youtube will likely either already agree with your position OR be influenced by your position, skewing the results. Not sure where else you posted this but you will need to run the survey for a long time and get it out to as many people as possible OUTSIDE of your followers to gain anything from it.
3) I don't agree with the idea that console players rate her better because of differences in controls. Having a mouse in this game is not really going to make a huge difference when playing killer, with the exception of Huntress and Nurse because they actually require aiming. The fact it's a melee attack means that your input method is somewhat moot. There is also the fact that you can turn plenty fast on 100 sensitivity, enough to spin your camera fast to avoid 360, check areas quickly, or perform red stain mind games. I also don't agree with this "difference in audio" you mention, as IIRC you said it was due to players using the TV audio. A lot of Xbox players have headsets, and I know for a fact that the top players in this game have good headsets. It's actually very rare for Xbox players that play online multiplayer games to use the TV audio in a lot of games. Maybe this is true for low ranks, but at high ranks it's definitely not. I personally use Astro a50's, and I know all my friends have Turtle Beach or something comparable. Really all you need is a stereo headset to do what you need to do as Spirit.
4) More than likely the reason console players rate her better is because she is WAY more common on console than PC, simply because the best killer (Nurse) is so difficult to play with a controller that the actual God tier Nurses are few and far between. In fact on Xbox I can count on 1 hand the number of Nurse's I consider to be at this level. Every other Nurse I come across will be mediocre at best. But Spirit is super common, at least at higher ranks on Xbox. This means console players are just more used to her. I think for PC she's less common and as such people weren't forced to practice against her as much, so they tend to have more trouble now that she is so much more common, which skews their perspective of her strength.
5) Just to point out, I took the survey. I play on Xbox, rank 1 both sides (though right now I'm rank 3 for both simply because I've been playing the game way less since Borderlands 3 came out). I rated her pretty high as being fun to play against (really would rate her even higher but I feel like a lot of Spirit players do super dirty things, less the killer and more the type of people that tend to play her is what makes it less fun), BUT I also rated her high as being difficult to counter. Like I completely disagree she has no counter play and it's just an auto-win for the killer, but I will agree she is DIFFICULT to counter. Difficult to counter and impossible to counter are two completely separate things. Like I find Hag difficult to counter sometimes, but I don't find her impossible and that difficulty doesn't make her less fun (though hardcore Hag campers are less fun but I digress). So again, you need to find a better way to ask these questions because the bias will lead you to the wrong conclusions.
6) I don't believe she needs to be changed outside of Prayer Beads, HOWEVER I will acknowledge that a lot of players DO NOT like her and that maybe some things should be done to mitigate that. I suggested to remove the ability to grab post phase walk when using Prayer Beads, as it would remove one of the lamest parts about that add-on being easy gen/totem grabs. Then increase the volume of footsteps within 6m when outside the husk's TR so that a survivor can know when she is really close to them so they know to do some squirrelly moves to dodge the attack. Finally add an slight audio echo to sounds for Spirit when phase walking, as this will just increase the skill gap a tad for the killer player. I disagree with almost every other idea I've seen to "fix" the Spirit because almost all of them will fundamentally change her kit. She's meant to be confusing. That's the whole point. You're not supposed to KNOW when she is or is not phase walking. It's part of the reason she was weak on PTB (also the directional woosh). Any suggestion that basically says "give a cue when she is phase walking" will gut her. This includes having her move grass, because corn maps would become absolute counters to her. And considering corn maps are a problem in general we don't need to make them any better for survivors. No the solutions to this problem have to either increase the skill gap for the killer or give the survivors something to react to when they need to be reacting (hence why I suggest increasing volume of footsteps because that's when you NEED to have something to react to, when she is about to attack). It just feels like all the players want a giant neon sign about her head that says "I AM PHASE WALKING". All this stuff would just destroy her, you are supposed to have to predict her.
Sorry if this thread was buried, but I wanted to get all this out and haven't been able to post in the past month until today. I do appreciate you @ScottJund for at least trying to see this from a different perspective and trying to get some hard data, but at the same time I see flaws in this process. If you want to continue with this I recommend revising your survey to be more neutral and finding ways to get it out to as many different types of players as possible.
-
@PyroDude said:
The game itself is the entity.
And it feeds on our emotions and soul everytime we play it.
This would explain why my Xbox is full of spiders.
-
Counter point...
The Entity is the devs.
-
@UlvenDagoth said:
The Exposed status is way too short.
The main purpose of Iron Maiden is to discourage survivors from using lockers to counter BBQ. Either killer sees your aura or your notification bubble.
Or you use it to reload faster as Huntress. Or as Doc to stop people from using lockers to hide from Madness.
Exposed effect is good for Nurse though, since locker jukes are common. Now if you do it while healthy you just give her a free down.
-
The only two killers where learning with add-ons will matter is Nurse and Huntress. For these two you want to be playing as close to base kit as much as possible when you learn them because otherwise you become dependent on their add-ons just to function using their powers. This means no extra blinks/range for Nurse and no wind up/cooldown for Huntress. Once you have a firm grasp of the base power, THEN you start to experiment with add-ons.
Every other killer it doesn't matter because their powers don't require the same degree of mechanical skill/muscle memory. If you play Spirit and start off with speed add-ons, when you take them off it will be a tad jarring but you will still be able to use their power as before, mechanically. You just have to adjust your tactics is all.
You could argue Billy/LF would be affected by this as well but considering there is an action bar that you can see muscle memory is less of an issue. Though I would avoid using insta-saw add-ons while you learn them, if only so that you don't feel like you have to use them to do well.
I'd also say you want to avoid Scratched Mirror/Vanity Mirror on Myers only because they fundamentally change the way you play the killer. It's like an alternate version of the character instead of a straight buff to some aspect of his power.
-
Yes.
-
Always.
-
Freddy should be in your top tier. Snares can shut down any loop in the game very effectively (even Haddonfield infinite), and he has very good map pressure with gen teleport. I actually find Freddy to be one of the best killers to use at high ranks against good players. I consistently 4k/Merciless at red ranks with him.
-
Yes it does.
Iron Will -100%
Stridor +50%
Net -50%
It basically turns Iron Will 3 into Iron Will 1.
-
@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/730125#Comment_730125
Then why would you tell me about your idea on XB1? I thought you're not supposed to tell me your plans if we are (pretend) rivals? 😂
Ah yes, it's a trap!
-
@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/729934#Comment_729934
Ah, I understand your point of view — I respect that!
No you don't.
You hate me and are planning revenge as we speak.
This is how the internet works.
-
Where is this info at?