thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
About
- Username
- thesuicidefox
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
Stalking isn't entirely useless, but it's best used in very small doses for specific circumstances. I use it to find survivors sometimes if I know they are probably somewhere nearby and I can't see them. Or if I sneak up on several of them doing a gen or healing, I will stalk. But majority of the time it's just better to utilize his stealth because it's way more powerful.
-
@Acesthetiic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825522#Comment_825522
Oh, sorry my bad. I was just reading very fast and took what brain had processed. You’re not wrong for saying traditional is better, because it is. Just trying something different, to where I can express their ranking further. Thank you for your feedback.
I just think what you did kind of over complicates the process is all. Do whatever you want, but it's easier to comprehend a tier list with fewer tiers where each character is sorted according to relative strength within a tier. There's nothing wrong with putting 4 characters in a single tier so long as it makes sense. Not to mention, when you do what you did you make the statement "this character is clearly 100% better than this character" which might not be entirely true. It could be more fluid than that, so putting them in the same tier and just sorting them leaves open the idea "these characters are roughly equal but this character tends to be stronger than this character". It's less concrete that way.
-
@Blueberry said:
I do believe there is an S tier anymore. I'd put the highest as Spirit in A.
Hag is also extremely overrated.
On the right map Huntress can be godlike but she requires a ton of skill to get to that level and her bad maps are very numerous.
Just my opinions though.
"I don't believe there is an S tier anymore. I'd put the highest as Spirit in A."
See this is what I mean. There is ALWAYS an S tier, because there will always be at least 1 character that is superior to all others. That character is the S tier. You compare all other characters to this character to rank them in the other tiers.
S tier doesn't mean over powered or unbeatable, and F tier does not be completely worthless. It's all relative, and you need at least 1 anchor point in order to sort a tier list. Even if the S tier killer is not that good they are still S tier by comparison to everyone else. That's how a tier list works.
Even in games with superb balance will still have an S tier and F tier. The difference here is that the threshold for comparative strength will be much lower than a game with poor balance. So in a very balanced game, both S and F tiers are viable at high metas, just one is MORE viable than the other.
-
@Acesthetiic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825418#Comment_825418
Not sure why you have a problem with it then? My grading is based of their viability against high rank survivors, COMPARING the killers in who can do it at high level, a low level and everything in between. Which is indeed a tier list. What would be the point of basing a characters power independently? That doesn’t even make any sense. Nothing is top or bottom heavy at all. I added more tiers to give people a better understanding on where I think a killer is in their current state compared to the rest. I mean.. no tier has more than three killers.. lol. If this list was shrunk (like my last one was) it would look the same as that one lol.
For example:
S: 3
A: 4
B: 3
C: 5 (including Pig & Legion)
D: 3
Not sure how you get I’m ranking them independently from one another in terms of how well they do.
I didn't say you were ranking them independently, I made the point that you should stick to more traditional tier formats like S A B C D F. You don't need a +/- tier, you just sort the characters in order within a tier. The only time this is necessary is when you have a LOT of characters, such as MvC2 or Smash Ult. Those games have like 60+ characters so it's a bit more necessary for those extra tiers.
You asked why a tier list should be formatted that way and I explained why. I wasn't saying you did that though.
-
@Acesthetiic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825353#Comment_825353
“A good tier list had more characters in the B and C tier”. Can you elaborate why you think that? And who would fall there in your opinion? Atm, there’s 6/7 in mine (counting legion). Freddy and GF could be the only ones close, and they are clearly better than the others below.
A tier list is basically a comparison of strength between characters. As such it makes sense that most characters would be "in the middle". An individual character's strength is relative to all other killers.
Like it should make sense that there are a few characters that are really good, some that are good, a bunch that are average, some that are below average, and a few that are bad.
When you have a top heavy or bottom heavy tier list, that means you are basing the character's strength on how well they perform independent of other characters. That's not a tier list. Tier list placement is always dependent on how well they do COMPARED TO everyone else.
Like for Spirit, she is a strong killer. You place her at the top, meaning that she is the strongest when compared to all other killers. You can't gauge her strength without such a comparison.
In theory if we had a game where every killer was overpowered and could get 4k's 90% of the time, you wouldn't place them all in S tier, because some killers will still be stronger comparatively. So even in this case, there would be mid tier and bottom tier killers, even if they are all OP it's relative.
-
IMHO any discussions about Spirit at this point is moot. The devs already stated that she is "over performing" according to their metrics and that she is going to be changed. It doesn't matter if we can prove she is or is not unbalanced, she is getting changed regardless. In fact, I will bet that even if no one ever said anything she would get changed because the devs would still see the stats suggest she needs to be changed. The only difference is the speed at which they push out said changes, which they will probably prioritize higher since so many people complain about her.
I haven't been able to confirm but a friend of mine said they mentioned "serious changes" coming to her on Twitter or something. Not sure how true this wording is, but if true I'm disappointed it has come to this.
The devs need to be more transparent about this. How much is she over performing? Can we see this data too? What potential issues have been identified and what are the goals of said changes? This is the stuff I'd like to know, I'm kind of getting sick of this deal where they completely change a character without telling us anything until the work is done and there is basically no going back and we have no say in the matter. I get the devs generally know better than us when it comes to the health of the game, but you seriously have to be more open about these issues, especially ones as sensitive as Spirit. It makes me want to just give up on the game and move on.
Throw us a bone please devs.
-
I'm more of a fan of condensed tier lists. S A B C D F is more or less the standard. Some tiers have SS for the characters that are absolutely broken overpowered, but that's about it. And a good tier list has most characters in the B/C tiers and the least in the S/F tiers. It should look like a bell curve if you turn your head. If it doesn't, that either means the person making the tier list made a mistake or the game is seriously unbalanced (which as bad as balance is in DBD I don't think this is the case).
-
Pipe OP
-
@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/824995#Comment_824995
i dislike it for the same reason i dislike the nurses UR add on combo:
it hurts the killer more than it helps.
again: running the UR combo literally makes you a 115% mms killer with one projectile. thats not even worth considering to run.
now, allow me to go into some detail with your seperate UR ideas:
the Iridescent Head idea first: this is WAY too situational! you literally wont be able to get this thing going at all, unless you just unload at them in tight loops where you cant throw the hatchet too far away. if you hit the survivor, the hatchet is gone, if you hit the ground the hatchet is gone and if you happen to throw the hatchet too far it is gone, unless you literally drop the chase to run after your hatchet. and thats another huge problem: even IF none of these 3 factors happen, you will have to completely screw your movement by running after the hatchet, allowing the survivor to loop the spot even more! and if you dont do that, the hatchet will despawn after 20 seconds. so you want to tell me it would be worth it to sacrifice 2 out of 5 shots, to MAYBE in certain scenarios be able to reload one of the 3 remaining shots? no, not at all.
now, the second one: "gain bloodlust level 1 immediately uppon entering a chase"... i have a problem with that on multiple levels, first off, this doesnt sound like an add on at all. this feels like it could be a perk, though an add on? idk man. secondly, it really does not fit the killer or the killers power at all. and lastly it just feels lazy tbh. its like you went out of ideas and were like "idk lets just add this". if it had been a permanent speedboost, it would have been a lot better in that regard tbh. like, you basically make her a 115% mms killer with only two available levels of bloodlust - which btw will be lost uppon using your power, so thats another flaw with that idea - but therefore remove 2 of her 5 shots. and yes, this on it's own would be pretty strong, BUT now we come back to my main critique point:
the UR combo guts the killer more than it helps.
every killer is supposed to have 2 UR add ons that both buff the power, but also synchronise well with each other. granted, this may not be the case for every killer (some dont have 2 URs and Hag's URs dont work together), though they all work together at least decently for the rest:
Trappers URs work together just wonderfully, creating traps that injure survivors who disarm them and reset themselves.
Wraiths URs work together decently, as one tells him exactly where to pressure and the other allows for easy ambushes
Nurses URs work together good, they were designed to be used together, however they do gut her power more than they help, since they - just like your ideas - came with too big downsides to make up for the, very small, benefits.
Shapes URs again work together just wonderfully, allowing him to go on an infinite instant kill killing spree.
Hag would be the only one whose URs actually dont work together, as one removes the ability to teleport and the other one allows you to teleport to traps that havent been triggered yet from any distance, so they negate each others effects
Freddys URs work together pretty well, since both make it very hard to escape the dream world - one makes it literally impossible for the obsession, buffing his base power a lot.
Pigs URs allow her to use the ambush aspect of her power while also buffing the remaining trap to a level where the survivor will take a lot longer to get rid of it - threy dont work together too well, though at least they dont make her completely unplayable
Clowns URs work together just wonderfully, as they allow him to eigther get a oneshot or at least an aura reveal on the survivor uppon hitting them with a bottle / the gas. basically they cant run, they go down immediately and they cant hide
Spirits URs work together very well, as they allow her to follow injured survivors like it was nothing on huge distances very fast, making it incredibly hard to escape her, once injured
Legions URs work together decently, as they provide you with tons of map pressure on the survivors and as a little bonus let you break palets immensly fast in chases
Plagues URs work together very well, since one shows infected survivors and the other one allows you to gain your corrupt purge again and again, making it really difficult for sick survivors to escape from her
Ghostfaces URs work together decently, as one provides him with very fast stalking from cover and the other one reveals other survivors after downing said stalked survivor.
and last but not least Demogorgons URs work together decently, as they show him injured survivors and allow him to ambush them properly.
you see, the UR combo is something that is supposed to buff the killers power and make them a much bigger threat to go up against. however, your rework ideas make this impossible for Huntress. her URs wouldnt match at all, they dont support each other and they dont give your power a unique and dangerous playstyle. thats why i said Iri Heads should stay the way they are and the second one should be reloading her hatchets passivley over time. that way she could attack once and then, after some time has passed, again and again without dropping the chase / wasting time on lockers. both URs would be strong on their own, but combined they would synchronize very well and help each other out. your ideas are missing this aspect entirely, which is why i pointed that design flaw out.
also i havent complained about the other add on ideas. i actually said i liked those.
You claim she has to go out of her way to collect the hatchet, but isn't that EXACTLY what you are doing when you reload normally? I don't see the difference. In one case you have to go far out of the way to reload. In the other you just have to slightly adjust your position to reload. It's not even comparable honestly.
-
@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825077#Comment_825077
But you waste more time and let survivors get distance on you by doing what you said. Iri Head would be better if it just let you refill 1 hatchet after you down someone, without any downsides to it. Or refill your hatchets over time.
If you are chasing someone and miss a hatchet, you really don't need to go out of your way to recollect it because chances are they will continue to run in the same direction. You seem to be under the impression you have to break the chase to collect them, no not at all. More likely you will naturally recollect them as you keep chasing. Plus you can still reload normally.
The problem with reloading hatchets over time is that it's outside the control of the killer. It also completely negates the need to reload, which she should still need to do. With what I suggested, you have basically an ALTERNATIVE way to reload.
I don't get why it has to have 0 downsides. If an add-on is powerful or game changing it should have a downside to promote that type of play. Otherwise it just ends up being overpowered. Heck current Iri Heads have a downside and they are still considered OP.
-
@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825017#Comment_825017
Not throwing long range hatchets ? That's literally the main reason why Huntress mains like Scott Jund or Umbra play her. So they would immediately consider this add-on trash.
They also tend to go for those throws right before they reload. So what exactly is the difference? You take Iri Head/Infantry Belt and throw long range hatchets like usual. But now you can get back any mid to short range hatchets thrown, extending the potential need to reload perhaps indefinitely.
Also not sure why you are so confrontational either. It's like you just want to argue with me. I even suggested amending my idea to include someone else's.
-
@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/824995#Comment_824995
Because your add-on punishes Huntress for long range hatchets and makes her go out of her way everytime to recollect these hatchets, which waste more time if she would just refill her 5 hatchets after she runs out of them. A very bad UR.
Also, Myers URs combo is really bad, because you get gen rushed before you get to EW3 above rank 10.
So don't throw long range hatchets? You can still reload as you would normally, and if you bring Infantry Belt then you are base Huntress with the added ability to recollect hatchets. That's really strong dude.
Though maybe we could add @razaluna idea where it can pierce multiple survivors such that can pass through them and hit a surface for recollection.
-
@Marcus @Mister_xD
If you can recover thrown hatchets that means you don't have to reload. Not sure why you guys think that would be weak. It would be incredibly strong to be able to forgo reloading at lockers even if you have less hatchets overall. Like anytime I miss a hatchet it's always hitting a wall or some object. It rarely hits the floor.
Iri Head is still going to be best combo'd with Infantry Belt, so that you have more hatchets and do not need to reload.
Shiny Pin by itself makes you an M1 killer with 3 projectiles. You realize how strong that is? Again use Infantry Belt.
Not sure why you guys are complaining about the UR combo. Most killers UR do not combo well together. Really the only killer where it does is Myers. Every other killer the UR combo better with lesser add-ons.
Also the Mangled/Begrimed add-ons are literally the same as they are now with very minor tweaks. The Mangled hatchets last until you heal rather than being on a 2 minute timer. The Begrimed hatchets give you a status effect that does EXACTLY what they do now, only without the Mangled effect and for an extra 30 seconds. Not sure why you have a problem with these when they are the same as they have always been just with some QOL improvements.
-
Agreed. Good survivors play injured. Take Iron Will and Adren, it's way more optimal.
If you want to heal yourself bring a medkit.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821982#Comment_821982
I will always pick someone up even if they have DS. Who cares about tunneling, I'll play how I see fit.
And this is a valid tactic to counter DS too. Just eat it. It depends on when and where you do it, but if you do it early and in a dead zone you can catch the guy again and not need to worry about a late game DS.
-
I'm assuming you mean depip? Because all ranks have safety pips. A safety pip is when you neither gain nor loss rank progress.
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Rank#Pip_ConditionsRank 20-17 a safety pip is anything below 8 emblem points. There is no depip.
Rank 16-13 a safety pip starts at 6 emblem points. 5 or less is a depip.
Rank 12-9 a safety pip starts at 7 emblem points. 6 or less is a depip.
Rank 8-5 a safety pip starts at 8 emblem points. 7 or less is a depip.
Rank 4-1 a safety pip starts at 9 emblem points. 8 or less is a depip.
So basically what is a safety pip at rank 20 is a depip at rank 1.
-
@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/818018#Comment_818018
Correct. This is why they can and are filtered out, as mentioned earlier.
So then how do you filter out when people just give up and let the killer kill them instead? Because I've honestly had this quite a lot as Spirit. I hook a guy for the first time, they struggle and die, now there are 3 survivors with 4-5 gens and there is very little chance the rest are getting out.
I'd like to ask that you filter out the games where a survivor dies within the first 2 minutes of the game, just to eliminate these games where survivors give up. Because even against the best killer player playing the strongest killer, you shouldn't see someone die within 2 minutes like that. Dying that fast is almost 100% on purpose.
-
@SeducedByDaemonette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/822621#Comment_822621
Good luck in red ranks against stridor spirits . Or wait usually people who defend spirit don't even have rank 10 on survivors
I'm rank 1 survivor. Been playing at rank 1 since... I can't even remember when (at least for 2 years). I play against a ton of Spirits at red ranks. Do I always win? No, but I am definitely not an easy catch. And I've escaped my fair share of good Spirit players. Some I've ran for a solid 4 minutes because I played smart, meanwhile every single one of my SWF group gets caught in 30 seconds. I've had at LEAST 2 rank 1 Spirit players tell me "I haven't been challenged like that in a long time", and I believe it because when I play Spirit 95% of survivors are easy AF to catch. But that last 5% is a totally different story. You can lose a game just because of them.
-
@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821893#Comment_821893
I read your comment and something proves my point — the survivor forced to assume both because the Spirit offers no feedback to the survivor. The survivor can't rule out either of her options because they just don't know, while the Spirit knows everything; that's a guessing game, not a mind game. You can't out-predict your opponent when they have more tools to pinpoint you.
Therefore, the only counter play is to assume the Spirit is doing both. However, if she was faking it, she would just watch you walk out of LoS then phase or walk to where she thinks you're at. She will see the scratch marks (in your scenario, you said: Walk out of LoS and run) and that's it basically, you're not losing her unless you have a pallet or a vault.
Me and @GrootDude was thinking about giving Spirit the undetectable status effect for a nerf (and will give the survivor more feedback for counter). ?
"The survivor can't rule out either of her options because they just don't know, while the Spirit knows everything"
No she doesn't know everything. She can't see you and scratch marks take a second or two to appear. You can easily walk away from the loop and she will waste enough of her power that she won't be able to catch up to you by the time she realizes you left.
"However, if she was faking it, she would just watch you walk out of LoS then phase or walk to where she thinks you're at."
If she was faking and decides to go the direction she saw you go, it takes almost 3 seconds to activate her power, and she is already way behind you. This means you have a significant head start to reach another safe spot, she probably won't even be able to fully catch up to you. And if you ran into a structure you can use that to hide, which now she has even less information to go by.
The way you beat Spirit is by making her waste her power and chase you at 110 speed. If you can do this consistently you waste a LOT of her time.
-
@Raptorrotas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/822869#Comment_822869
For once it's not ? Its a rather good explanation on how survivors should treat spirit:
"Take evasive action as if she was phasing but dont go near the husk incase she's faking" -
Well, there might be people calling this crap because "it doesnt work all the time"...
But these are the people who "want ez loops and escapes all killers"
Ok had to make sure LOL
Thanks for the support.
And no it doesn't work all the time, but it works enough to be a valid counter option. It mostly depends on the situation and where you can go to extend the chase.
Although I will say I almost NEVER fall for the stand still trick when I do this. It honestly baffles me people fall for this trick at all, but it's precisely because they over think the situation. It's really not that complicated.
-
@StarMoral said:
"Yea and you have total lack of knowledge if NOED is in play. The difference between NOED and current obsession DS is that there is a tell there is DEFINITELY no DS in play. NOED has no such tell so you always have to spend time destroying totems or risk getting one shot at end game."
Again, it's much more beneficial to destroy totems. Plus, not to mention, DS is incredibly more popular than NoED. You will see more instances of DS than Noed in ANY game.
"And free tunneling is healthy? I don't see your point. I would rather be slugged 50 times in one game than tunneled off the hook. Pretty sure any survivor worth their salt would agree."
Maybe run DS to eliminate that "free tunnel" then.
"As far as deactivating DS when you hook someone else, that is an entirely different discussion, but I completely disagree with this mentality. If you are NOT tunneling and still get hit with DS chances are good the survivor let you catch them on purpose. You didn't actually outplay them or catch them legit, they forced you to catch them. Like it's really not much to think a bit about the situation and slug the guy. Chances are they only have a short time left if you took an entire new chase before going after them again. Just leave them on the ground, kick some gens/pallets and then take the hook. It's not that big of an issue."
You cannot be serious. You complain about the issue of tunneling this entire page, yet you justify the killer getting punished after doing his job without tunneling. So what is it? Do you want the killer to not tunnel, or do you not want the killer to kill TOO quickly? Because with what you have just stated, you seem to be in favor of the latter.
If there is no obsession the killer is free to tunnel all they want. There is nothing stopping them. This is the problem I am proposing to fix, because in these games most if not all killers will tunnel someone knowing there is 0 risk of DS.
If there is an obsession the killer has to think about whether they really want to tunnel or not. They also need to pay attention to when the person was last hooked.
I don't see why one would NEED to run a perk to avoid the first scenario. Tunneling is an admitted issue by the devs themselves, so anything that reduces the chance of it is a good thing. Again it's better to be slugged than to be hooked, because if you get slugged you're not dying as fast.
As for the last part I don't see a problem. If the killer took the bait then they failed at their job. The smart thing to do is to leave them on the ground for a bit until you are sure it has been a minute. What is the problem here? Majority of survivors with DS will go out of their way to have the chance to use it. Unless you are a literal God tier killer, then you aren't going to get a hook on every survivor within a minute. Maybe don't chase the same guy, there are two others you can go for. And if you do chase them, don't pick them up. You can stall the game with slugging too.
Also in regard to saying "destroying totems is beneficial" I'm guessing you mean BP or emblems. Well if you slug survivors that means more chance at BP and emblems for killer as well. Malicious/Chaser are notorious for some killers to not score because they down/kill too fast, so by slugging you are increasing the chance to get more points for these emblems. Same with BP in terms of "survivor found" and "survivor hit".
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821903#Comment_821903
I like the idea of a power that is non lethal, yet requires the survivors immediate attention as a stall mechanic. It just probably needs to be something different from DW. OR DW just needs revisiting again. Find ways to increase the survivor urgency to deal with it, make chaining hits on alternative survivors much more rewarding, without leaving “holes” the legion players can exploit.
The problem is that you can't do both at the same time. If there is urgency, the killer can take advantage of it. If there's not, we basically have current Legion. It can't be both, at least not when it comes to DW.
It's a tricky problem I think the devs did the best they could in the time they could. But they said Legion is getting looked at in the future so hopefully they come up with a better solution.
-
@Raptorrotas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821893#Comment_821893
Your Schrödingers Spirit explanation is quite good.
Not sure if sarcasm ?
-
If she does not have Thanatophobia, then play as long as you can without cleansing.
If she does have Thana, or you are in a position where you are forced to cleanse (eg. death hook, another survivor already cleansed, etc.) then just hide for a bit after you hear her take a fountain. Drop pallets early and try to go for loops with high walls that can protect you if you find yourself in a chase.
If you are in an SWF (or just with a group of smart survivors) you can force her to into Corrupt Purge by cleansing at all the fountains. Doing this is actually very bad for her, because the activation is beyond her control and she loses all her fountains in the process. You reset her pressure to 0, but you have to be careful to not do it when she is in a position to go after multiple survivors. One way to force this is to get sick, do a gen, cleanse, return to the gen to get sick again, and cleanse again. If all of you are sick and cleanse, with 1 or 2 of you doing this trick, you can force the fountains to reset easily.
-
@StarMoral said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/822022#Comment_822022
And if the unhooker still has DS? What then?
Then that survivor made a smart move and you got out played if you took the bait.
-
"No no no, this stems from a total lack of knowledge about going against DS."
Yea and you have total lack of knowledge if NOED is in play. The difference between NOED and current obsession DS is that there is a tell there is DEFINITELY no DS in play. NOED has no such tell so you always have to spend time destroying totems or risk getting one shot at end game.
"Now imagine that every game, regardless of ANY obsession perks within the lobby. Constant slugging and momentum breaking for both sides because Obsession status is baseline. That doesn't sound like a healthy playstyle."
And free tunneling is healthy? I don't see your point. I would rather be slugged 50 times in one game than tunneled off the hook. Pretty sure any survivor worth their salt would agree.
Plus by slugging you risk someone having Unbreakable too. So there is risk to doing that.
As far as deactivating DS when you hook someone else, that is an entirely different discussion, but I completely disagree with this mentality. If you are NOT tunneling and still get hit with DS chances are good the survivor let you catch them on purpose. You didn't actually outplay them or catch them legit, they forced you to catch them. Like it's really not much to think a bit about the situation and slug the guy. Chances are they only have a short time left if you took an entire new chase before going after them again. Just leave them on the ground, kick some gens/pallets and then take the hook. It's not that big of an issue.
-
@LordGlint said:
As someone who plays with STBFL often, I just got use to there always being an obsession. If you play like you have DS...you BETTER have DS. Im yanking your ass out of that locker, you dont get to pretend you have DS when you really dont.
That's the spirit. To quote Dave Chappelle as Rick James "######### yo couch!"
-
@StarMoral said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821982#Comment_821982
That's what slows down the progress. Slugging. Most people who get hit by DS don't necessarily tunnel. Going for the unhooker would have to mean you were at the hook when the DS user was hooked. That's a beneficial moment, because then you down the DS, go for the unhook, then continue on. It normally doesn't go like that.
DS is a perk that benefits of any instance of Obsession status on any player. If Obsession is baseline, regardless of Obsession perks, then the comparison between NoED is void. Because then it's not a comparison between perks, it's game mechanics compared to a perk.
You don't know if the killer has NOED and if you spend time doing totems, you are slowing your progress as survivor too. I agree with @SleepyWillo there is no difference between playing to counter potential NOED and playing to counter potential DS.
-
@StarMoral said:
This would be an indirect buff to DS since the simple presence of the Obsession can cause the killer to act as if people have it.
No survivors even need to have DS to benefit from it, they just need an obsession.
And believe me, this is nowhere near a buff for SOLO players.
Well that's the point. The obsession is there to deter the killer from tunneling because they will have to assume there is a DS in play. And I wouldn't call it a "buff" to DS. It's a buff to survivors that play WITHOUT DS. Solo players would indeed benefit because no they are less likely to be tunneled, which in solo play is a major issue. If you are in SWF you can coordinate to avoid tunneling, but in solo you don't have that luxury.
-
@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821973#Comment_821973
Right, which is why I said "in Obsession games." ?
What I'm getting at is, if there were an obsession in every game no matter what perks were in play, Laurie would get an outsized advantage from it.
Eh, ever so slightly. Like when I see a Laurie I think "she has DS" but I don't think "she is the ONLY ONE with DS". There is a difference here. All that means is you can not use DS on Laurie and more likely get the benefit of the killer assuming you have it. It wouldn't be that drastic really.
-
@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821937#Comment_821937
but killer perks/power always trump survivor perks (not saying survivor one should trump killer ones but maybe cancel each other?).
OoO against an Undetectable killer is just a target on your back with no benefit, except to the killer.
Iron Will? Better hope the spirit isnt using Stridor - the one perk almost every spirit uses as IW is the main counter to her...
Note: I am in noway advocating a "nerf" to spirit. I do, however, agree with the changes Otz has suggested.
I use Stridor on Spirit and I can tell you it's not as hard of a counter as you think. It's a soft counter at best. It turns Iron Will 3 into Iron Will 1. The guy will still be very difficult to hear, you will only hear them within about 8m. So having Iron Will will still benefit you even if the killer has Stridor.
Additionally if you really want to beat Stridor, run No Mither and Iron Will. You will be 150% silent which trumps Stridor completely. I've actually had a game where I used this combo and the Spirit had Stridor. I was literally following her and she had absolutely no idea I was around. Sadly, unless you want to run the build for many games, the chances of getting a Spirit with Stridor to beat is incredibly low. Still it works, I've done it.
-
@Rydog said:
I would change my survivor main to Laurie Strode, no questions asked. She already sometimes enjoys a psychological advantage that I like to call "Schrodinger's Perk," because it's easy and reasonable for a killer to assume that a Laurie player is running Decisive Strike, as she unquestionably has it available in her perk inventory.
So the Laurie player, knowing this, can behave in Obsession games as though she has Decisive Strike (going for really risky plays right after she's unhooked, jumping in lockers, etc.), whether she's actually running it or not -- and the killer can't definitively know without risk. So, you stand to get out of sticky situations sometimes, even if you're just bluffing. All survivors can do this, but with Laurie it carries extra weight.
(Bill players can do the same thing with Borrowed Time, too.)
I'm aware of this effect but it doesn't work if there is no obsession.
-
@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821921#Comment_821921
Bamboozle is good on every map , so you should use it every match just in case you get a map with a broken loop. Maps don't need fixing since bamboozle exists.
This is your mentality.
Except it's not actually good on every map. It's not good on Lery's because of the sheer amount of windows. It's not good on some main structures because they have 2 windows. Bambo is way more situational than Iron Will.
Furthermore, only certain maps need fixing and it's not because of window loops. It's because of windows AND pallets AND the size/shape of the loop. There is a lot more going on here than you are willing to admit.
By your logic fixing a single window will fix these loops, which is patently untrue. The issue is way more complicated than that.
-
@StarMoral said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821939#Comment_821939
Lol I play Jeff, that mofo is fat, tall, and loud... And I'm able to stealth around quite easy. Yes, knowing how to loop helps, but if you can avoid getting into a chase, DO IT.
I've been running Iron Will ever since the last time it was in the Shrine, and even then I was running Urban.
If I recall, my build right now is Iron Will, Bond, Self Care, and either Balanced/Lithe. Iron Will for stealth, Bond for reconnaissance with both Survivors and Killer, Self Care for when I can't be bothered to spend more time finding somebody than healing, and Balanced/Lithe for chases.
I started as a Jake main (Kate main now) and have been using Iron Will since I started playing the game. I've gone through periods where I stop using it, but I always end up circling back around to it. It's such a great perk.
-
@DeKillerKiller said:
I always tell myself this everytime I hear the obsession ding at the start of the match:
"I'm going to get stabbed."
I always just assume the person who is the obsession has Decisive Strike. So ignoring them in favour of others is what I typically would do as a killer. So I think this would be a nice change for Solo survivors.
I'm generally surprised when this is NOT an obsession. It's actually kind of jarring when you don't hear that sound, like the game is playing a joke on you or something.
Also I usually assume the opposite, that everyone BUT the obsession has DS. But I still will slug the obsession just in case.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
If the Spirit isn't over performing then prove it to us. Play someone like trapper for 100 games and get the same kill rate.
Conversely, you can prove she does over perform by getting 100 4k's in a row. No mori's and any game with a DC is discarded. Also it should be at red ranks at least because anyone can derank and bully baby survivors. I think those are fair restrictions wouldn't you say?
@DeKillerKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821939#Comment_821939
I think the reasoning behind it is because "Stealth is not fun".
Exactly, which is completely subjective. I find stealth fun, but I also find chases fun. I find majority of the stuff in the game fun, hence why I play. I know players that don't find stealth fun and others that don't find chases fun. To each their own, but just because you don't find something fun doesn't automatically make it less effective or impossible to do.
-
@StarMoral said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821921#Comment_821921
What's funny too is that Iron Will and Spine chill are amazing against ANY killer.
The only reason people don't use them is that they benefit stealth play, which apparently is bad... For some reason.
???
IKR
It's like no one ever tries to be stealthy. And some act like it's impossible. It's really not. Dodging BBQ/Nurse's is so easy for me at this point I don't even think about it anymore. Discordance is easy to avoid once you realize the killer has it. Spine Chill beats every aura read add-on killers have, including SM Myers now. But no one wants to acknowledge that stealth is indeed effective. Maybe they just aren't good at doing it, which is fine, but just because you aren't good at it doesn't mean it's not a good tactic. I've lost games as killer (Spirit too) specifically because of super stealthy players.
-
My favorite part about the "perks are not counter play" argument is that they ignore the absolute devastation Iron Will and Spine Chill can have on the Spirit. Like sure, without perks it is significantly harder to counter her, but WITH these perks it is actually super easy to counter her. To the point it's almost a joke. These perks crush her so hard, I don't see how you can just ignore this. Not to mention, both Iron Will and Spine Chill are strong perks against ANY killer. So anyone making the claim "I shouldn't have to use 1 of 60 perks to counter a killer" again ignore the fact these perks are great against any killer. The only killers where Iron Will won't help are Plague (because you cry in pain when sick regardless) and Doc (because you will scream revealing your position anyway). If these perks weren't strong against nearly the entire killer roster they might have a point, but since they are and since they dominate killers like the Spirit so much I find it intellectually dishonest to just dismiss them as counter play options.
Know what I do when I run across a lot of Docs or killers using Infectious Fright? Yep I put on Calm Spirit. I have no issue with this at all because of how hard this perk counters Doc too. If it can sway the game that hard, it is indeed a valid counter play option.
-
I do kind of agree on Legion, but at the same time I don't see a way to fix this killer without completely changing them. They had to do what they had to do because of the inherent design of Deep Wounds being flawed.
As it stand I think Legion could use some QOL changes. Increase vault speed during Frenzy. Add some base effect if you double tap with Frenzy. Change button add-ons to work on the initial hit instead of a double tap. Missed Frenzy attacks drain the power bar instead of outright canceling the power (you should get something like 3 misses if you swing right when you activate Frenzy).
-
@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/820361#Comment_820361
If its so easy why don't we go into a KYF and you tell me every time I'm using my power? I guarantee you can't do it reliably whatsoever. I've tested this with people that have claimed they can see all of these things before. Sometimes I would literally never use my power, just jerk my mouse slightly to the right or something, and they'd say I used my power. Using the schoolgirl outfit makes all of this pointless and useless.
Sorry I can't help myself here.
Explain why it is important to know exactly when she is or is not using her power?
Because the smart thing to do is to play as if she is both standing still AND using her power. If you are trying to figure which she is doing you already lost. But if you assume she is doing both simultaneously then you can pick the counter options which beat both (or at least mitigate the advantages of both) and therefore you will win the chase more often.
I'm starting to think this is the core issue people have with Spirit. They look at it as an either/or scenario instead of a both/and scenario. This is why so many survivors end up doing the very very VERY stupid move of slow vaulting the pallet into her face. If you don't do that, instead walk away from the husk until you break LOS then start running, you pretty much avoid any option she has where she was indeed standing there. And if she was you now force her to phase walk (or better follow you normally) which, due to the lack of initial scratch marks, makes you harder to track. You will gain distance on her and make it to a safer position. And if she was phase walking to begin with, and you walked away there is a good chance she will waste at least some time trying to track you by the loop, and by the time she picks up your scent again you have enough distance where she can't reach you with the rest of phase walk.
And yes there will be some spots in the game where you don't have any good options so you have to just take a risk, but I don't see how this is different from facing other killers where you are in a bad position. So please don't come back at me with some super specific scenario where the killer obviously has the advantage because that's not specific to Spirit.
-
There are other ways to deal with campers/tunnelers besides BT and DS. Those are the most effective and easy to use but here's some other options.
Anti-Camp:
Kindred - Warns other survivors that the killer is close and to just rush gens.
Deliverance - Other survivors can ignore the save and rush gens while you yeet off the hook and make the killer waste time chasing you again.
Camaraderie - Hook stages take longer which means more wasted time on the killer's end.
Slippery Meat + Up The Ante - Deliverance light. Not guaranteed but does not require a safe rescue first.
Spine Chill/Resilience/No One Left Behind/Leader - You perform the unhook action faster.
Swarm - This is when you rescue as a group and all "swarm" the hook such that the killer can't grab/hit the guy making the save. Alternatively, one of you can take a hit allowing another to make the save during the blood wipe animation.
Anti-Tunnel:
Styptic Agent - Give yourself or the guy you just saved BT without needing BT.
Breakdown - Makes it harder to tunnel because they have to bring you to a new hook. Also gives you aura read on the killer.
We'll Make It/Botany Knowledge/green or purple medkit - Heal the guy you just saved way faster. If you do it right then the killer has to plow through 2 health states to tunnel not just one. Most killers go for the weakest target so this may discourage them from tunneling.
Mettle Of Man - You get an extra health state. Difficult to get to proc though, but devs said changes to protection hits are coming so it should become more useful when those changes hit.
Poised/Lightweight/Q&Q/Iron Will - Stealth perks can make it harder to track you which means you have a greater chance to escape a chase where you are being tunneled.
Scramble - If you save someone and expect the killer to tunnel then take a hit. More often than not this gives the guy enough time to get away and they killer will break chase on you to look for them. You can also swarm the hook area and make a lot of scratch marks so that it's harder to follow the guy that just got saved.
Adrenaline - Insta-heal when being saved after gates power. Same as Styptic.
Flashlights - If the killer tunnels you can make a flashlight save. In fact just showing you have a flashlight near the guy he is tunneling will force the killer to deal with you before making the pick up, which gives the tunneled guy a chance to get revived from dying.
-
Tome 1 completed. Tier 21 or 22 (not sure and I don't have the game open right now).
TBH I just want to finish the tier I'm on to get my putrid serum for the final piece of the Spirit cosmetic. After that I don't care.
-
@Peanits said:
This is actually a good question and something that we would love to have at some point. The reason is pretty simple: Word filters can only do so much. Say you filter out the word "Elephant" (let's just pretend that's an insult so I don't have to deal with the forum's profanity filter). You can spell that 3lephant, 3l3ph4nt, e.lephant, Élephant, etc. The list goes on and on. You can try your best to catch it, but someone's always going to find a way to outsmart it.
It also doesn't catch stuff like telling someone to jump in front of a bus, since all of those words on their own are perfectly fine. Not to mention that other languages overlap with English (die = the in German).
Still, it is a good thing to have. Might as well catch some of it rather than none. The other half is a matter of priorities. Would we rather make a word filter, or work on a new disconnection handling system? We opted for the latter first since we already have a team of ACMs who can review chat reports.
Short version, definitely nice to have, wouldn't outright stop it, so we're focusing on the DCs first while the ACM team handles the chat stuff.
So what you're saying is I should tell people to jump in front of an elephant ?
-
Yes because a perk should not trump an offering. White Ward should also prevent you from dropping the item, either willingly or unwillingly.
-
"Acquire skill and talent through experience while learning from your mistakes and the failure of others."
-
Stridor. I just like the ability to track injured survivors from a distance through audio.
Also I love using Rancor because it's a free mori, but I don't use it often because it's a rather weak perk.
-
@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/820504#Comment_820504
The point isn't that CI with a totem can't work.
Just that the power of CI plus a totem is less than the sum of the perks.
In otherwords for example, the stall from ruin and CI is less than the stall from ruin plus the stall from CI.
Well that may be true for CI and Ruin combo, but I don't see it for totems in general. When survivors see CI they tend to want to rush the first open gen they find and are less concerned with totems, so if you have Devour there is less of a chance they will be looking for it or stumbling across it too early.
-
So if you want to fake having DS stay still. If you want to fake NOT having DS, start crawling right away.
-
I hate Doctor. I find everything about playing against him unfun. Yet when I make a post voicing my concerns while SIMULTANEOUSLY saying I would be fine with him being buffed as long as the BS parts of his kit are removed I'm given the 'ol "git gud" and talked down to because Doc is a weak character.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
-
Still pretty common on Xbox.