thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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@GrootDude said:
I just did the dark sense one legitimately. Just try to be stealthy and bring bond. You just have to be there and repairing once it get finished.
I did it in one try.
Okay that's good to know at least. The way it's worded it sounds like you have to do 3 FULL gens. This is more reasonable.
But it's still a bit stupid considering it forces you to use a perk. Challenges that make you play differently than normal shouldn't be a thing, at least not ones where you are forced to use specific perks/characters. Having someone go slightly out of their way to get it is acceptable. Having them completely change their play style is not.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't know about that my teammates now gen rush faster than ever now I don't know why lol
I had like 2 normal-ish games like this but there were still survivors doing strange things for challenges. One game a Kate was just running around doing chests and ignoring gens. That's bad for the game's health.
There are also cases of players spitefully screwing others out of challenges. I had someone DC as I carried them to the basement for the Agitation challenge. Luckily I still got it from the other survivors, but this is not at all good for the game.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/832871#Comment_832871
Weird,... why do you see demon faces? I only remember falling and waking up during those phases
It was exactly one time and for a brief second because it woke me up. Usually I just see shadow people.
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@Boosted_Dwight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/831015#Comment_831015
No I wasn't but @Peanits confirmed that they were place holders.
It's not a place holder I'm looking at it in game now.
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I agree. The especially egregious one is "fully complete 3 gens using Dark Sense" as if this is actually possible. Maybe for rank 15's where no one does gens, but at red ranks you'd be lucky to do 1 full gen by yourself.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/832789#Comment_832789
That sounds like a horrible bad trip :P
It was actually a sleep paralysis nightmare.
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Just so you guys know, I one time saw a real demon face and it looked like this mask, but WAY more grotesque and scary.
😉
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Anything plus Nea would definitely be OP.
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@Lost_in_the_Fog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/103662/who-cares-about-pipping-right
I think the real problem is there is a subset of players who care FAR TO MUCH about pips and rank. I understand it's competitiveness and their self worth is tied to the number of their rank.
Overly competitive people ruin the fun of any game experience be it video games, a board game night with friends, or a sporting match. The problem is in the IRL situations you can just stop inviting those people to play with you. In online gaming you unwillingly get stuck with them.
I disagree. I think players that play for pips are actually less competitive than other players. I'm talking about the ones that only see a 4k/escape as a win. If you play for pips this is less important, you are playing to perform better overall not aiming for a specific goal like number of kills or escapes. I'm fine with dying as survivor if I know I will pip and at least 1 other survivors escapes. I'm fine with giving away hatch if I know I will pip because I'm not playing to kill everyone every game.
These players are the problem. The refuse to yield on their goals and get mad if the other side does anything to stop that. It leads to bullying and toxicity. It leads to killers using broken add-ons and moris, and survivors playing in 4 man squads with keys and insta-heals (well used to until they were nerfed). The fact you can get a 4k or escape and no pip or even depip pretty much let people continue to do this and stay at low ranks to bully other players.
The reason high ranks is hard is because pipping at high ranks is hard and requires you to do a lot of everything. Everyone plays optimally because it's necessary, but that doesn't mean they are playing like jerks. It just means they play the game really well. By contrast, killers going to a 4k will drag out games by slugging, survivors going for an escape will sandbag each other to get hatch or flat out hide from the killer all game and do nothing. That's kind of playing like a jerk if you ask me.
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Best add-on combo is movement speed and duration. Duration doubles as recovery since it simply decreases the rate at which you use your power, but the bar refills at the same rate. So what would have been a 3 second phase with 7 seconds recovery becomes a 3 second phase with 4 second recovery (not exact numbers just an explanation of how it works).
@konchok said:
Ruin, Pop, BBQ, Stridor. All of spirit's add-ons are amazing except the passive phasing and the blood glasses. My personal favorite combination is reduced activation + reduced recovery for yamoka's haunting.
Not exactly true.
Passive phasing add-ons can make her really strong at certain loops without needing to use her power. It works very nicely against strong survivors since it makes you even harder to read.
And glasses are anti-stealth. If you have trouble with Iron Will, Q&Q, or any other stealth perks this will trump them and you can't hide blood. The only true counter is No Mither since you don't bleed. So if you want to give up Stridor for something else, you can use glasses in it's place.
Also in terms of builds, I prefer Thana, Sloppy, Dying Light, Stridor. The first three are IMO the strongest combo in the game. You could have 3 Ruins and Pop and it would still be better. It just requires some build up to get the value, but once you get 4 stacks of DL the game pretty much stops and survivors just can't heal anymore. Stridor is already good for Spirit and it synergizes well with this combo since they will always be injured.
The problem with Ruin is that it can be taken away from you, and good survivors can do great skill checks anyway. The problem with Pop is that you have to sometimes go out of your way to use it, and it stops being useful if all the gens get done. Strong, but the triple combo is way way better. You just play normally, maybe go for hits on uninjured survivors, and do what you can to avoid killing the obsession.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/831243#Comment_831243
No one really claims a keyboard is better than a controller as far as movement goes, its the mouse part thats the contender. A mouse offers alot of accuracy, and precision quick movements thats not really needed for most of DBDs gameplay.
Eh some people are really elitist and think anything controller is inferior. I personally hate using a keyboard to play video games. It's so archaic and clunky.
Also real pros play using Guitar Hero controller xD
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/831258#Comment_831258
Badham has less safe palettes, but it has more palettes. I think the though process behind giving overall more palettes on a map, but having them be less safe is that you'd just drop the palette and run to the next which in theory should be safer than the last. Seems like Hawkins less palette loop centric and more maneuver centric.
It's good in theory, but in practice it's kind of dumb. There are 2 possibilities here:
1) You loop the pallet, and since it is unsafe you get hit. There is no actual mind game it's just a matter of the killer doing shimmies until the survivor vaults where the hit is unavoidable. Mind game pallets are ones where the killer has to predict and bait you to be on the wrong side. When they can see you it's not a mind game (as much as it's not a mind game at super safe pallets like Blood Lodge).
2) You drop the pallet and break for the next one. The killer can just walk past the pallet and continue chasing you, likely getting a hit before you reach the next pallet. Really this theory of unsafe pallets only works when the killer stops to break the pallet, but there is no reason to do this so it's moot.
I personally wouldn't mind these pallets being unsafe IF there was an actual mind game. That means LOS blockers so that you can actually trick the killer to going to the wrong side of the pallet. The problem is the devs kind of look at any of these kinds of pallets as "safe" pallets, but it's only safe because if you win the mind game the killer is forced to break the pallet, and most safe pallet mind games favor the survivor.
A good example of an unsafe pallet with an actual mind game are the ones on Temple with the high walls. Most of these pallets are unsafe because the sides are too short to just run in a circle, but there is a mind game because the players can't see each other. Whoever wins these pallets is completely dependent on who plays it better. Neither side has a true advantage, and every vault/swing has potential to end in either a hit or a miss. I know people ######### on this map for the safe loops, which majority are, but this one in particular is what I think all pallets should be.
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I agree about the pallets. It's good that not every pallet is a safe pallet, but it's bad that every pallet is so incredibly unsafe it's literally not even worth dropping sometimes. Killers can just "mind game" you hear, and I use the term loosely because what it really is is a losing position where the killer is pretty much guaranteed to get you, especially when Bloodlust kicks in. Even if you took out Bloodlust, it's too easy to win at these pallets as killer. If they want there to be an actual mind game they need to add more stuff to block LOS so the killer has to predict and bait survivors into getting hit. Not this "I'll just shimmy back and forth a few times and then hit them as they fast vault because there was literally no other option and they can't trick me into going the wrong way".
That said if you have Balanced you get access to some strong loops, but even then Bloodlust will eventually beat you no matter how hard you try.
The new Badham maps I feel somewhat the same. Too many pallets with no actual mind game where killer can easily win.
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@TWiXT said:
YAY! finally, Nurse, and Huntress won't be the WORST killers on Console since they'll finally get to experience how terrifying they really are for us PC Players.
As for cross platform progression... Sure, Why not tie a single account to multiple platforms? I hate it when I have both the console and PC versions of a game, and one is more advanced in progression/plot than the other, but one of them is unavailable at the moment. Tying these together, makes it feel like no matter what you play on, you are still making progress. Otherwise you basically have to keep back tracking and playing catch up, which is not fun.
Dude we know how good these killers are. Believe it or not, there are some God tier Nurse and Huntress players on Xbox. I'm a pretty solid Huntress myself, but I know several that are way better.
It's more that due to the limits of a controller with aim it's very very rare to see players of this caliber. It's almost always assumed the killer is not that good until they prove otherwise. But it doesn't mean they CANNOT be that good.
Also if you guys on PC think the abundance of Spirit is bad now, wait until crossplay and you get all the Spirits from console. She is literally like 1 in 3 games, maybe more.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/831224#Comment_831224
They'll very likely keep that option. m/kb support would be cool, but I dont really think it'll mean as big of a difference as some think, apart from some killers. I know ive seen some PC users actually prefer a controller over m/kb and stilll preform quite well. People talk like Marth and the depip squad were just SLAYING ppl, while the guy uses a controller. Ultimately that'll likely come down to consoles getting native support for it rather than BHVR allowing it. I havent heard anything about it, but if Xbox does it now...thats neat.
I want it because no games on Xbox actually support m/kb at the moment besides Minecraft I think, despite m/kb now being native on Xbox (I can plug in any m/kb and use menus or Edge and such). I just want to start playing with a mouse and controller, because it is the future. Analog movement is superior to WASD in pretty much every way, except maybe acceleration (since WASD is a binary on/off) but that advantage is so minimal because it takes like a millisecond to move the stick in a new direction. DBD would be a fun testing ground and practice for this new control setup. Will I stick with it? Not sure, but I really want to experiment.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/831192#Comment_831192
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/086/OO4P2894WSB8.jpg
Heres a screenshot of what we currently have for PC
Yea I thought you guys had the option to turn it off. They need to make sure this option is on all platforms so people that don't want it, or end up not liking it, can opt out.
So now all we need is them to enable m/kb support on consoles and optimize the game so it runs as smooth as PC.
And if they enable cross-platform progress I will probably end up buying the game for PC maybe mobile, and if I ever end up getting one, Switch.
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Tomorrow is rank reset so you might have better luck finding games.
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I'm cool with cross-platform play as long as we first get:
1) Cross-platform progress (this was one of the questions on the survey but I think this is super important to have).
2) Better optimization on console. I feel like PC players will have an advantage here because the game just performs way better on PC. In terms of controls I don't think it's a problem since you really don't need a mouse to aim unless you are playing Huntress or Nurse. Also the fact that, at least on Xbox, they can just enable m/kb support because it's native now (which they should do before enabling cross-play anyway).
3) An option to turn it OFF if it turns out I don't like it. Pretty sure this already exists as an option for PC players with the whole Steam/MS Store thing, but you really have to give an option to opt out.
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I think they listed characters like Bill and Freddy for completion sake. I'm sure they will just overlook these characters for the survey since they don't actually have cosmetics.
If we get Freddy skins I want either New Nightmare Freddy or Hat Man Freddy (https://www.theweek.co.uk/97457/who-is-the-hat-man-the-nightmare-shared-by-dreamers-across-the-world)
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829741#Comment_829741
You said rework, not tweaks, in your comment.
That is just nitpicking. I stated exactly what I thought should be changed, whether you consider that a rework or tweaks is subjective.
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I wish they gave us top 4 favorite killers. I had to leave out poor Ghostface 😥
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829144#Comment_829144
LMAO They literally confirmed in their last live stream that they aren't gonna rework Doc like they did with Freddy and it will be just an add-on pass and some tweaks to his base kit.
Yes this is what I mean. "Tweaks to base kit" include fixing the Snap Out before Mend and vault rubber banding.
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Polls would be a lot more effective if they weren't limited to their own subforum. I don't know any forum that does this actually. It makes no sense because then less people vote in the polls since majority of people stick to general discussion.
Same for feedback sub forum. I'm always seeing mods move stuff there and all that does is kill the discussion because no one goes to that forum. I can understand why they might want that, but it's not practical at the end of the day. Just makes more work for the mods and kills any discussion about suggested changes and whatnot.
Plus there are THREE feedback subforums. Yea one is forum feedback, which is fine, but the other two are redundant.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829372#Comment_829372
I think Ormond is worse than Family Residence. And I said that these maps should get a big rework too, not that the leaks have something to do with them.
Doesn't matter. The teasers have nothing to do with that map.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829364#Comment_829364
That is not true. Against good survivors, good builds are a necessity for every killer.
But against lesser survivors, top killers don't need a good build. Lower tier killers do.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829259#Comment_829259
Mount Ormond and Disturbed Ward need some big reworks.
Disturbed Ward is part of Asylum along with church. It makes more sense they would rework a map that is by itself, doing something similar they did with Badham.
Mount Ormond is bad but not that bad. Estate is worse. Plus Ormond is technically a more recent map and my guess is they want to work from the older maps and up.
This besides the fact the leaks have 0 to do with either of these maps.
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@Marcus said:
Huntress is very overrated, give her any map that is not Blood Lodge or Wreckers Yard and good survivors will make her life a hell. Even very good Huntress mains like Scott and Umbra DC from her worst maps and if you have the urge to DC with your main killer on multiple maps, then that killer is not top tier period.
And btw, Demo is better than Huntress in every single way.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829271#Comment_829271
Every killer is kinda weak without the right build against good survivors, so I don't get your point.
Strong builds are less necessary for the top killers (GF and up). On Plague it's a necessity.
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@Raptorrotas said:
This is just a theory, but i think spirit is overperforming due to the nurse nerf.
I think it mightve been a common reaction, even for good killers to (temporariliy) ditch nurse for the next best killer. The influx of people playing her combined with the all to common lack of interest in adaption of sirvivors then lead to her "overperformance"
Many of you mightve already heard of this, bits its a vicious loop of nerfing the top, the players going for the next best option and repeat... sigh
Its not the first but already the second round.
This combined with the fact that if Spirit was less common before and survivors just didn't have the experience to beat her, now she's more common and it's hard to adapt that quickly.
Honestly if she is actually over performing I would say it's both these issues. Maybe we should wait another 2 months for things to level out.
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Maybe NASA needed you. They did after all just discover that maybe the expansion of the universe isn't accelerating, that maybe the universe is circular and not flat, and maybe quantum particles don't behave as was initially predicted.
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I've only played against Demo like 3 times. I wouldn't even be able to place him.
I feel like people are over estimating Hag. She's good but she's limited to teleporting when survivors trigger a trap and has to focus on zoning/area control over actual map pressure. She can generate pressure in the areas she controls very well, but run to a trap dead zone and she becomes low tier instantly. I'd place her after Freddy at best.
Ghostface should be higher on the list, probably where billy is now. In fact I would move Billy up a tier, and put Hag then GF in his place. GF is the best stealth killer in the game. Myers can be strong, but the fact he is weak in ew1 hurts him a lot, and then he loses all stealth when he gains ew3 one shots. GF can do both stealth and one shots at the same time, even though using stalk is generally not the optimal strat. It's more the threat he can do it that is important.
And I would put Myers above Plague. Plague is only strong with the right build. At base she lacks map pressure and good survivors will just not cleanse against her, which is sort of good because they are always one shot but then more sort of bad because they never waste time healing and it doesn't slow them down on gens at all. If you are a good looper you can waste enough time even injured for it to seriously hurt her.
And as much as you love LF sorry but he should be at the bottom. Clown is weak, Legion is weak, but they have more chase potential/map pressure respectively to put them above Bubba. Bubba really doesn't have anything. No map pressure and very little chase potential. I know you will say "use these add-ons" but that would just prove my point. He needs add-ons just to be mediocre in a chase. By contrast, a good Clown will dominate every chase without add-ons. And even bad Legions can generate map pressure if they are constantly putting survivors into Deep Wounds.
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@Rinthespooki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829181#Comment_829181
Didn't the map already got touched by the devs somewhere in legion or plague chapters?
Kind of? I forget honestly. May be marginally better now, but it still sucks as a map for both sides.
IDK it just makes the most sense. We are due for a map rework, and I really really doubt that any of this has to do with the current Spirit situation (why would they hype up changing a killer when they only just said less than a month ago they are discussing what to do? Not even have solid plans?), or her father being a killer, or any silly stuff like that.
Like the only maps in serious need of a rework are Haddonfield and Estate. Corn maps need work too but that's a much bigger project I imagine since it's multiple maps. So it just makes sense this would be a reference to Estate rework all things considered.
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The problem is 1v1 and 1v4 are mutually exclusive. You can't have both at the same time.
Most low tier killers are balanced around the concept of a 1v1. They have very little in terms of map pressure, but may be solid in a chase. Clown is the perfect example of this. He is probably the strongest killer in a 1v1 besides Nurse (even better than Spirit) but he has absolutely 0 map pressure in a 1v4. So he gets stomped by good survivors.
The top tier killers are all balanced more around 1v4. Nurse, Spirit, Billy, Hag, Huntress, Freddy, Ghostface. They can all both do well in chases AND keep map pressure high. The former being the more important as I pointed out with Clown. Like take Freddy. If you remove his gen teleport, he would automatically drop in the tier list, probably wouldn't even be a real threat, because he would lack map pressure.
Plague is another good example of this. At base, she lacks map pressure. If survivors don't cleanse, she gains some chase potential since they are always injured, but 0 map pressure. But then the moment someone cleanses, or she used and apple and took a corrupt fountain, suddenly she gains INSANE map pressure. Now anyone that is sick is forced to stop what they are doing and cleanse. She also gains INSANE chase potential. Dare I say that if Plague permanently had Corrupt Purge she would, hands down, be the strongest killer in the game. Only Nurse would be potentially stronger, and even then it would be close. This is the reason why a good build is important for her, because if you take Thana and Dying Light she gains a decent amount of map pressure without needing Corrupt Purge. I personally feel that Plague is very well balanced killer, she just needs some minor things in her base kit to add to map pressure outside of Corrupt Purge. The problem is she has a very specific binary mode, one you can't exactly apply to every killer.
Conversely, if you took someone like Trapper and gave him a teleport of some kind, he would instantly jump up the tier list. Like top 5 easy because of his high defensive ability and snowball potential, plus his ability to shut down the strong loops with traps.
I personally feel that people don't like Spirit because majority of gamers (not just DBD all games) lack the ability to think dynamically. They can't improvise tactics on the fly, or use their imagination to "see" the game as the other player in the moment, therefore they make really dumb decisions and lose. Like I've said elsewhere, the whole stand still trick the Spirit does is easily countered by just assuming she is doing both at the same time. If you do this, then you won't make what are obviously the wrong decisions and you choices are more limited. There is a theory in psychology called "overchoice" which is when people have a difficult time making decisions when presented with a ton of options. When survivors look at the stand still mind game as "is she phase walking or not" they already lost because there are just way too many options for them to consider. They over think the situation because there are too many things they could do in response to what they assume the Spirit is doing. But if you just bypass that question and assume she is doing BOTH at once, your options become more limited and this doesn't become a problem anymore.
And in so far as the "dynamic thinking" part, most players just lack the ability to use their imagination during the game. Sure you can picture it probably after the fact, but in the heat of the moment when you need to make a decision almost instantly it's just impossible for a lot of people. They said that Einstein was able to come up with his theories about light and gravity because he could IMAGINE himself as a particle of light traveling through space. That's not something just anyone can do, it takes a special kind of mind to even imagine that. Now have them do it with a gun to their head and literal milliseconds to imagine it. Yea, majority of the human population lack that ability.
And when it comes to Spirit, that's pretty much exactly what you have to do. This is why so many people have trouble against her. This is why literally more than 95% of survivors I chase as Spirit go down so quickly. They make dumb decisions because of over choice, and lack the ability to imagine things I could be doing (which believe it or not has limits and there are only a finite number of things I can do in any given moment that lead to success). The other 5% can do one or the other or both and they are truly very difficult to catch. Maybe it's because I main Spirit that I am able to imagine what she is doing during a chase, and I can picture the path she is taking and predict when she will be in a position to get me. If I see a window and she is a certain distance away and was just walking milliseconds ago, I know how much time I have to make the window. If I have enough, I vault because now she is forced to go around and I picture in my mind that she doesn't have enough Spirit juice to make it to the other side (depending on the window). If I don't have enough, I might just go for the window anyway hoping she messes up or I'll fake it. Depends on the situation, but people act like you are guaranteed to lose in these situations and that's so far from the truth. Hence why my position on Spirit is that she's fine the way she is (aside from Prayer Beads giving easy grabs).
Okay long post but I have one more point to make about this. @ScottJund you will want to hear this because I know you probably just read all that and said to yourself "bullshit".
I am a former Smash Melee pro and tournament organizer. And by former I mean pre-2008. I quit the game and left the community when Brawl came out. But I am OG Melee. Ask anyone that has been around for a long time, tell them my name. They will know me. Mew2king and LiquidKen both know me personally (M2K is a friend of mine and we live close in the same state, he got his start at my state regional events, we haven't spoken in years though but mention my name and he will know exactly who you mean). I was there from the BEGINNING of the Melee tournament scene, circa 2002/2003. At the time, everything was local/regional. You would rarely see players from other states at tournaments. There were several major groups.
Deadly Alliance from NYC (which was sort of the crew I was part of, but being from NJ we had our own crew). Ha Ha You Lose from Virginia (H2YL). SoCal and NorCal (I forget the groups). Florida (which was probably the least respected of all of them). Texas. And Midwest (Ohio, etc). Sorry to any Smashers I honestly can't remember the crew names outside of my regions because it's been like 15 years and I have ######### memory.
Anyway, there was always some trash talk between the crews. Everyone talked smack on Smashboards but no one really put their money where their mouth was because it was hard to travel back then. But when regions started to collide there was an interesting development. Just before a big east coast regional held by H2YL, their leader Chillindude was talking hella smack about a "secret weapon" they had. Everyone in NYC laughed because we had, arguably, the best players in the nation (which I know sounds weird considering there were no nationals yet, but it was proven to be true when regions started to meet... outside of this incident).
The secret weapon? A player named Azen. This guy literally didn't even own the game. He couldn't do any tech besides L-cancels on the most basic moves. But when we all went to their tournament in Virginia (or maybe it was one hosted in Rochester NY? I forget honestly) we found out that they were not lying. This dude single handedly DESTROYED every NYC Smasher. Like utterly and completely. WITH PICHU AT SOME POINTS. I can't even stress enough how big of a deal this was back then. And this is not hearsay, I was there I saw it with my own eyes (despite my ######### memory I vividly remember these matches). Wes played the best against him, but still lost. Dave (IK Ghost), the best Falco player in NYC, got crushed by this guy.
So how did he do it? What was his secret to beat players who were CLEARLY superior to him. DYNAMIC THINKING. This guy was literally able to read and predict everything they did. To the point of literal embarrassment (Pichu...). He knew what they were going to do before they did it. And he won, consistently, by playing to this strength. Chillindude and Chudat were pretty easy pickings for DA, but Azen trounced us all (well not me because I actually never got to play him at this time since there were like 12 of us and everyone kept saying "one more game" 😥). He had this skill no other player had, and I don't think many players have had since. After this, he was considered the top player for a time until more national type event started and Liquid Ken basically did the same thing to him but with more tech skill (and DA got a lot better at the game). His skill eventually evened out, but he was always considered one of the best players in the nation.
So yea that's my story. A literal nobody beat the best players in the world because of his prediction skills. Again I saw this with my own eyes, this isn't some story I was told. This is why I can't buy into this "Spirit has no counter play" because I've seen it. I've had survivors completely outplay me every time by prediction, almost like I was getting stream sniped (but I wasn't streaming). Combined with what I saw Azen do, I firmly believe she DOES have counter play it's just honestly not something the average player can do. Maybe that is a problem, but I don't think it is because it's very devastating when it happens.
I know I'm rambling now, but that's how I view this whole situation. And regardless, like I made clear in my post (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/103119/the-only-spirit-discussion-that-matters) it doesn't matter because she is being changed anyway. I'd honestly rather focus on BHVR and getting them to be transparent with us about the issues they identified and their goals for fixing said issues, because at the end of the day that's all that's really important since it will happen anyway. I can't stop it, but I can at least guide the devs to make the better decisions knowing what they want to do.
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It's a Yamaoka's Estate rework.
Haven't seen this mentioned, but we are supposed to get a map rework in an upcoming update. And even though I think Haddonfield needs it the most, Yamaoka Estate is a really crappy map too, for both survivor and killer. For killer it's way to big and too much bamboo making it hard to find survivors, and for survivors the entire middle section is a pallet desert with both basement locations being highly defendable. It sucks for both sides, I know a lot of players on either side that hate that map. I personally don't like it regardless of which side I play.
And considering someone else noticed that the sword on that map was missing, I think that's a good hint it will be a map rework.
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Yea I'd love to see this data as well. The mere fact she wasn't in the top 3 when they released that data in April is fishy to me. Like no way she just jumped higher than those killers recently for it to be a noticeable problem. It doesn't make sense.
And if she IS over performing by how much compared to the next killer? If it's marginal then maybe Spirit doesn't need to be changed.
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@DarkGGhost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/828652#Comment_828652
First I don't think they will fully rework him because they say that will change the addons. Second thoes stuff keep him some what a threat. Lastly so far the only killer that have a full rework is fredy.
"Some what of a threat" no it makes him complete BS. He is very frustrating to play against because he can do stuff like this.
You should NEVER have to do anything before Mending.
Doc gets free slugs because he can put you into Madness 3 and you can't heal them.
He gets easy hook grabs but just mashing the button.
You constantly rubber band back across vaults from screams or shocks.
None of this is fair or fun to play against. I don't care if it makes him a "threat" it also makes him a serious POS to deal with. The lameness is almost on par with old Legion.
He is getting a rework, I have no doubt. Hopefully they address this stuff AND make his power stronger in the process. He doesn't need to be able to do these things to be a threat.
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I don't think Doc is getting a buff, he is getting a rework. He might end up stronger than before, but if they actually listen to us he will lose some really stupid parts of his kit too. Stuff like needing to Snap Out before Mending, or that insta-grab trick he can do in treatment mode. He might not be that strong now, but he does a lot of things that are seriously annoying to deal with.
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Spirit is fine.
However Prayer Beads Bracelet needs a drawback to make it less cheesey to play against. I've suggested this elsewhere, but if you remove the ability to grab during post-phasewalk then it would maintain most of the strength of the add-on while removing the most cheesey aspect of it's use (free gen/totem grabs). Yes she would still get a free hit, but a free hit is way better than a free grab.
When I use Prayer Beads Bracelet I avoid grabbing unless I'm basically forced to do it. Instead I just go for jump scares and normal hits because it's more fun for me and the survivor, and it keeps the game somewhat challenging.
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No. Waste of developer resources. Focus on improving the game's health (balance, performance, etc) instead.
Also pointing/come here are not emotes. They are gestures, ones you can use to communicate non-verbally to other survivors (or even the killer). An emote is just something with no purpose other than to be silly.
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Puppers because he is a really good survivor and a super positive/fun person. He's probably the only one I watch for the commentary.
I watch almost all the others but mostly for game play.
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I got my Spirit cosmetics that's all I wanted. I don't care about finish the rest but I will still do the tomes for BP and lore.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
Something we can agree on. The devs need to share data with us so we know what they are basing their decisions on.
Yes, and we need to find out other information too. I've had a lot of Spirit games (and some as survivor) were survivors just purposely die on first hook. They basically DC without actually DC'ing and I'd like to know if the devs filter out games where survivors died on first hook or within 2 minutes (because IDC how good of a killer you are, no survivor should be dead that quickly, it means they gave up on the hook).
I feel like she wouldn't be over performing if you account for these games.
I'm also curious as to how much she is over performing. If she's only beating the next best killer by a small margin, that's kind of important to know. It means she doesn't actually need changes as bad as people claim.
Regardless the devs have already decided she will be changed. I want them to be transparent in this process. We need to have an idea of what direction they are planning to go so that, before they start walking the path we can say "no not that way".
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For not dropping it no there is no counter.
But Plunderer's shows the aura of items so that's kind of a soft counter.
However I agree with my friend that said "all Franklin's does is make survivors play musical chairs with items... it doesn't actually stop them from using the items".
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I agree. I play for pips and to ensure the killer doesn't get a 4k (whether it's me escaping or someone else). Though I wouldn't call it "pip lottery" because it sounds like you have no control over it. I can consistently pip even at rank 1, and if I'm not going to pip I generally know before the end of the game.
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Uhhh link to said theory? And said evidence?
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Yes. I feel like since the last update there has been more and more frame dropping. It's even noticeable on the menus or lobbies. It especially annoys me when it happens during a skill check and I fail due to frame lag.
That said, there has always been an issue on Xbox at least with notifications and frame lag. Doctor is a literal walking system crasher.
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@arslaN said:
I think peanits also said that they are going to talk about her in the next developer update so hopefully we will have more information then.
I hope this is true. We need transparency here. This is a very divisive issue, more so than I think any other issue in the past. Just look at the forums and Twitter and Reddit. It's a mess.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Players have already pointed out (some in great detail) what the problems/solutions are though.
The problem is some people fail to read them.
1) It doesn't matter what the stated problems are, the devs already made up their minds about changing Spirit independent of player complaints.
2) The "solutions" I have read thus far are not good solutions. They all revolve around basically giving Spirit a giant neon sign above her head that says "I AM PHASE WALKING NOW". That's not a solution. Good players do not make good game designers. Furthermore, the devs are not going to take a single person solution verbatim, first because of legal reasons and second because that's not how you solve these problems. You solve them through testing and iteration. What sounds good on paper may end up being horrible in practice and vice versa. I'd be scared to see what the game was like if anyone on the forums had a say in the game's design.
@PigNRun said:
I know that whatever we say doesnt matter. However, just accepting changes blindly isnt something you should do. This change is coming from the very Devs that butchered Legion without proper buffs (still waiting...), created old MoM, nerfed old Freddy, made it so that getting blinded or stunned at any point during pick-up would force Survivors to be dropped, and several other examples.
They have said they have learned, and they definitely have. But what is stopping them from making more mistakes? We are all humans after all. Some people consider this another mistake, others not. I see nothing wrong with such discussions. Sure, namecalling and heated arguments are bad, but as long as it doesnt reach that point, why is it so bad?
I'm actually suggesting that we DO NOT accept the changes blindly. Every change to every perk/killer thus far has been blindly accepted because we are not privy to BHVR's plans. We know literally nothing about what will happen until it happens, at which point our concerns are limited to minor changes to something that will happen regardless of what we think.
I'm saying we NEED more transparency from the devs in this situation because of how divisive it is.
Hence why I ask to see the data that shows her over performing, what issues THEY have identified, and what THEIR goals are when it comes to Spirit changes. The community needs to be a part of this process or it will be the same issues over and over again.
@Blueberry said:
I get your point and it's a valid one. However, based on previous years of feedback on PTB's and the results that came from it our voices feel quite wasted in that regard. I also think DS is still in a pretty unhealthy state.
It's wasted because the devs do things independent of the community. We know nothing about what they were planning for anything until it happens. If we were at least given some transparency we could voice our concerns long before they implement something that we will end up not liking. They said themselves they are sometimes surprised by our reactions. Well that wouldn't happen if we were given more information before major sweeping changes were put into the game.
I'm not asking for them to tell us everything, just the important things so we can voice our concerns BEFORE it is too late to go back.
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@Almo said:
The idea is that if you only escape, and do nothing else, you get a penalty. We do not wish to encourage in any way Survivors who only wait for the gate to open, letting their teammates do all the work.
The problem is the killer can purposely not participate in the game and force everyone to depip at red ranks.
I was playing with a friend and we got a game against a Bubba that stood in the basement facing the corner all game. I did 1 full gen before I realized no one had been chased at all. My friend did a gen himself as did the other 2, then the two random survivors rushed the last gen and the gates. Because I couldn't get ANY Benevolence and didn't have time to get any Evader (due to 2 players rushing to escape which I have no control over) I depipped.
This should not happen. I get you don't want to reward people, but if the killer can purposely depip you doing this that IS a problem. The guy just refused to play, so what exactly are we supposed to do? Why do we get punished by this? It's not in my control what the killer decides to do nor is it in my control what other survivors do unless we are in an SWF together (and even then "control" is a loose term).
Just as a killer shouldn't be punished for DC's or survivor purposely dying on hooks, nor should survivors be punished if the killer refuses to play the game normally. I'm not asking for a pip, I'm just asking to not DEPIP.
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It should give 100% BP earnings in all categories. This is the same kind of BP boost as Prove Thyself or Distressing, NOT a post-game multiplier like WGLF or BBQ. You merely earn BP at a faster rate, you can't earn more than the limit in any specific category.
Also remove the injured music. Do these two things and I would be happy with NM.
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I haven't played against Furtive Chase much as survivor (because it's not that great or popular of a perk) but from the handful of times I have seen it, it's basically like a reverse Monitor & Abuse.
When a killer chases you with M&A, their heartbeat becomes noticeably more intense when the chase starts. You can also tell the killer has it when the chase someone else nearby, you will suddenly hear a heartbeat.
For Furtive it's the opposite. The heartbeat becomes less intense, however you will still hear chase music. The killer will also tend to focus on the obsession, which is generally unusual given that 4 out of the 6 killer obsession perks basically require you to ignore this person (Rancor doesn't require it, but you are encouraged to keep them around if you want a mori).
For nearby survivors, they would hear a heartbeat and then it suddenly disappears. Considering how rare this perk is, most survivors probably won't realize it's because of Furtive and instead will assume the killer moved farther away. So you can use it to get the drop on them. But this only works as long as Furtive is a super uncommon perk to go against. If more killers start to use it, survivors will get used to the effects and it will become less effective in the long run.
IMO it's a niche perk. Good for particular builds but not very effective. You are generally just better off using M&A or even Tinkerer. The specific requirements to get tokens and the fact you lose them if the obsession dies really kind of hurt this perk.