miaasma
miaasma
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- miaasma
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that's what i thought was happening, a lot of people seemed to think the opposite so i figured i was just mistaken
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i tend to stockpile to about 500k if i'm playing a lot of killer
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the house with the garage is called the "house of pain" and it's present on 2 of the worst killer maps in the game (badham and haddonfield). i honestly do not understand how those loops still exist in 2019
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@WheatThinO said:
They are fun and I hope every single one of you is plagued by spirits running them. I have a stock pile which never depletes due to my overwhelming amount of black wards.
Last bloodpoint weekend, I grinded and was able to amass an unreasonable amount of goodies on the spirit. And now I am again, proving that I can always have the beads around my hands so that every game is a silent one until the spirit just pops up without warning and ruins it. And if you seem to be in a swf, well, we like to remind you of your mortality with an offering to the entity. ♥️
i think you took a wrong turn on your way to reddit
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tracking a spirit with environmental effects is pretty useless considering once she gets close enough to where you can see grass move you're probably already dead
on top of that i've noticed that her making grass/corn move is really inconsistent
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i know a lot of people loved the christmas event, and the BBQ event last year was well received too IIRC
on the flip side, i think most people will agree that the previous halloween and moonrise events were bad even in retrospect
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527427#Comment_527427
Odd, I saw it a lot back in the Moonrise event. And I've played what, 50 Killer games using BPS and puddings a like. Perhaps i'm just unlucky and this entire post is meaningless I guess? I have no idea...
i forget what happened during the moonrise event, i just remember people from both sides hating it a lot lol
i don't doubt what you're describing is your own experience, it just doesn't reflect mine is all
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to respond to what i believe you wanted your original post to convey, i've noticed survivors using BPS in my killer games. sometimes it's more than one at a time. maybe you're just getting unlucky? i haven't seen a huge disparity in BPS use between killers and survivors so far during this event
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527276#Comment_527276
@miaasma these kinds of WIFOM style mindgames may seem like guessing but I can assure you that there is a lot of psychology involved.
And either way, the Spirit is playing the exact same "guessing game"
Running to the next loop vs vaulting the pallet when a spirit stands still in front of a dropped pallet is something both the Spirit needs to predict from the survivor AND something the survivor needs to predict from the spirit.
i don't know if some selective reading is going on or if there's a legitimate cognitive dissonance happening here, but here goes
spirit doesn't need to "predict" anything because she has mid-phase tells; she has collision, she has audio (when it's working) and she has scratch marks, not to mention environmental effects like grass moving. none of that is "prediction". even nurse involves more prediction than spirit does lol
on the other hand, the survivor doesn't predict anything because the survivor has literally no idea what's happening at any point in time and has to guess based on how the spirit has been playing. that's closer to prediction but it's prediction based on nothing inherent to the killer
so in the survivor/killer interaction you have one side (the spirit) who has plenty of tools to figure out where the survivor is, and the survivor has 0 tools to figure out where the spirit is, or if she's even using her power. that is not well designed gameplay. one side is guessing, one is not. i have been saying this multiple times throughout the thread and people just kind of plug their ears while regurgitating the same "she's mindgaming you!!" points over and over again. i'm not trying to shame anyone for playing or enjoying spirit, i'm just telling you that she's not a well designed killer
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people should be able to tell when the killer is bringing a mori
an enormously strong offering the only downside of which is that survivors see it coming
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527357#Comment_527357
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527354#Comment_527354
I don't expect it... The point was it would be nice...
Where did I ever say I expected the highest of praise for my streamers, and while the sentence led you to believe this, it never outright said that. The point also was that people oddly don't use streamers also, it'd benefit everyone in the match.
i mean you did just call them ungrateful and cheap for not explicitly thanking you for throwing an offering
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527187#Comment_527187
Oh yes, you've clearly want the game to be easier. You realize that the only killer without counter play is Nurse, right? Oh, and here's a tip, this community is pretty divided on EVERYTHING. So, perhaps when 95% of people say, "Yeah, that killer is fine." Maybe, just maybe, you might be wrong. This entire thread and your responses have just been you flaunting your arrogance, refusing to see any other sides than your own. Now, try to tone it down, good day.
how is this thread a representation of the "community"? i see both sides of this discussion and have played both sides of the discussion. a bunch of self described killer mains insisting i'm wrong doesn't really mean anything, i already know i maintain a balanced perspective of this game
call me arrogant for not typing out an essay to everyone who just repeats the same things other people have said if you want, i've gone in plenty of detail explaining how spirit has no counterplay. you specifically have added nothing to the discussion except for useless cheerleading and tone policing like this post
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you expect people to thank you for throwing streamers? who cares?
i throw streamers all the time, i don't expect thanks for it
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i think a more universal bit of advice is to at least try to play both sides. even if you only end up enjoying one of them, understanding how both work allows you to play better and broadens your perspective on the game in general
so yes i agree
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spirit is frustrating because she has no counterplay
you're listing perks, which i've already said doesn't matter and isn't an argument. perks aren't counterplay
the points you brought up were regurgitated from other people i've already spoken to in this thread
spirit holds all the cards in any interaction with a survivor. playing against a spirit is tantamount to playing a guessing game. winning a guessing game doesn't mean you counterplayed the spirit, it means the spirit messed up
i'm going to leave this thread since i've said everything i'm going to say and, like i said earlier, i didn't come here to convince anyone, not to mention any previous instance of me (or others) having a balance discussion with you has been akin to talking to a brick wall, which is another reason i don't feel like having a full on discussion with you
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@vampire_toothy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527222#Comment_527222
Yeah I used the addon a couple of times at around the time Legion was released, infact I actually went through a cycle of using all of their addons as I wanted to understand which way I wanted to go with my suggestion on how to improve the legion & make them healthier for the game. It doesn't at all mean that I enjoyed that addon either, infact I found that I had way more fun playing them with double duration as a regular killer despite being 110% killer at the time.
To this day I completely despise both the current and old version of Frank's Mixtape and even made an entire post about how the old Legion was unhealthy because that required literally no skill. Infact I went against the new frank's mixtape the other day and still think it's unhealthy despite it being weak, however that is for a different post and is completely unrelated to this if you would like to talk about it another time.
Infact I strictly recall speaking to you after that match if you're who I think you are which means you're only taking that match (which again was roughly around 2 weeks after Legion was released) entirely out of context only to try and disprove my credibility as a player rather than properly talk about the topic at hand here.
i already talked about this topic
to other people
you can read back if you have any questions
you have no credibility to begin with, i don't need to disprove anything
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527066#Comment_527066
I find it funny when you actually throw the pallet, and then the Killer gets mad at you for "looping" it.
Like I can get being frustrated if they aren't throwing it and using them smaller hitboxes to their advantage, but when it actually gets thrown, just break the pallet lol
most killers who complain about pallet looping are bloodlusting maniacs who spend far too long at small loops
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@vampire_toothy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527206#Comment_527206
Then you're simply refusing to discuss with people who actually have experience in using the killer and hearing their part, you can't really get far at all if you aren't willing to discuss with people who actually know the killer well. Infact you did disregard points considering the fact that I brought new points to the table such as the tricks you can do with her power.
I defend Spirit because in my experience of playing as and against her she is generally fine in most situations. Infact, the only thing that isn't fine about Spirit as I've mentioned is her very rare addons which are a bit too strong.
the last time i played against you you were a frank's mixtape legion, which contextualizes a lot of what you're typing in this thread
the "tricks" you can do with spirit aren't mindgames, the same way none of the other things are mindgames, so no, i didn't address them specifically. i have no obligation to just repeat myself to you when nothing you've said brings anything new to the table, sorry
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@vampire_toothy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527163#Comment_527163
You completely disregarded any points I made with a few of the tricks you can do with her, you also seemingly completely disregard the fact the Spirit does require skill especially considering that audio has been broken as of lately (which has been fixed in 3.0.0).
As someone who has mained Spirit for a long time she isn't that simple to master, she's just simply easier to pick up but what gives her a high skill cap is the following ;
- You can always improve with your ability to use her as you can never be perfect with her power.
- With the many tricks you have thanks to how her power is designed, you need to know the best situations to use each trick.
- You need to judge and adapt to how each survivor in your game is playing, if you cannot learn how the survivors are playing you will lose. Because there are lots of different ways survivors can react to your power, you need to know how to adapt to that.
- Although audio is very helpful, iron will can often make it much harder and so a lot of Spirit players actually need to learn how to last without it sometimes.
Unlike other killers, Spirit purely comes down to the skill of the player and the only thing that removes that skill is her very rare addons.
haven't disregarded anything, just not repeating it for another spirit main who insists she "purely" comes down to the skill of the player despite her holding every card in every interaction with a survivor
i didn't come to this thread to convince anyone because i'm not delusional enough to think it's that easy, the same reason i didn't try to convince pre-patch legion mains that moonwalking had no counterplay. once people adopt a playstyle they'll defend it to the death, no matter how empirically bad it is for the game
she's not getting nerfed anyway because the devs also think she has counterplay, even though any good player who has played against her enough will tell you otherwise, so don't worry about what i have to say about it
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527050#Comment_527050
So I assume you have a huge problem with Myers, Wraith, Billy, Bubba, Clown, Freddy, Pig, Hag and the rest of the killers, besides Ghost Face, Trapper and Plague. Honestly, none of those killers have built in counter-play, so, I guess maybe you should get a new game if your so upset.
i don't even know how to dignify this with a response
all killers have counterplay except spirit, and nurse (to a degree). nurse has more counterplay than spirit but is much stronger overall
also, who's upset? i didn't realize pointing out a flaw in a killer's design had some sort of emotional backbone to it. maybe i just want the game to be better balanced?
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@vampire_toothy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527117#Comment_527117
I'm gonna have to disagree with this. I think Spirit actually has the second highest skill cap right behind Huntress. While of course some people will learn Spirit fast you also have to keep in mind that the game has been out for a pretty long while and that her power isn't about timing unlike Nurse or having a precise aim like in the case of Huntress, it's about being able to predict survivors in order to either catch up to them, get a direct hit and maybe get some scares with her grabs (without prayer beads).
Some people might learn her fast to a decent level like I said, however mastering her is very difficult because there are many tricks you can do with her and generally there is no way to be perfect with her power either especially where sounds have been a bit unreliable as of lately (which are fixed as of 3.0.0).
For instance, one example of a way you can skillfully use Spirit is to use her husk (the body she leaves behind while phasing) to bodyblock a pallet, window or pathway to prevent them from being used which isn't something people seem to do often. Another example is learning just the right distance to be at in order to get a gen grab. Infact she also has another aspect to her power that rewards players for being good at spotting changes because when she charges her power, survivors turn white before disappearing making it sometimes easier to notice without even realizing someone was there before.
That being said her power is literally all about mindgames, sure she is favored by certain aspects like hearing sounds, collisions and seeing visible changes to the environment but that's because it would be way too difficult to always predict the survivor's location each and every time without those. Her power is a mindgame because for the most part you both still need to think about how both of you are going to try and predict each other except in this case it also applies to fully visible or even otherwise safe loops which most killers cannot do without some form of a high wall.
already addressed most of this and typing the same things out to different people is rather exhausting
her power is not a mindgame, it's a guessing game
spirit does not have a high skill cap at all. have good audio and know how she works, congratulations, you're a spirit player
survivors not only have to predict where you're phasing but whether you're even phasing at all. they have no tell to work with. it's not a mindgame no matter how many times you attach this word to her
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@PoisonN said:
So everyone now needs headphones and boom, 50/50 with Spirit?
I'm sorry, but she still requires skills. You don't have visual contact when you're phasing with Spirit, add ons are circunstancial things (in both sides, survivor and killer) and well, Iron Will stil exists and it's a option If Spirit is ruining your day. Just like people using OoO against Huntress, UE against Hag, Calm Spirit against Doctor and I seriously don't understand why the "perk argument" is inválido because. We use perks to make our game, it's their function
the reason perks don't come into this discussion is because perks are not counterplay. i shouldn't have to run a specific perk just in case i run into a killer
additionally, the difference in the perks you mentioned is that you don't need perks to counter any of those killers. huntress, hag and doctor all have in-game counterplay. when people ask how you counter those killers, you can respond by telling them what to do, not what perks to run
spirit is hard countered by iron will, but without it she doesn't really need any sort of indication other than audio to find you when you're injured. and hitting you when you aren't injured isn't hard either for the aforementioned reasons (standing still to bait survivor movement, then responding to said movement, watching scratch marks, seeing grass move, etc.) my point is that i should be able to outplay a spirit in-game if i am not running a specific perk, and if the spirit is good and plays with her ears, i can't
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don't worry about it
if you get moried, take your BP and go next. don't let it impact how you play the game
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@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527057#Comment_527057
Falling for the spirit's mindgames makes her a "low skill" killer? You realize after nurse, spirit has the second highest skill cap in the game. Spirit is fine and needs the glass-breaking sound bug fixed, along with sounds so spirit can hear survivors again.
the highest skillcap killer, by far, is huntress
nurse's skillcap is actually incredibly low. my first killer was nurse, it did not take me very long to climb up ranks with her, and with the addition of addons you're killing survivors who are much better than you at the game
moreover, by learning nurse you don't really learn the game at all. nurse doesn't really play dead by daylight. you can become a great nurse and still be awful at every other killer because of how much of a departure she is from how killer is typically played
i've already covered why i think spirit has a low skill cap, and it has a lot to do with the fact that much of it depends on your own audio setup and quality. i also covered why spirit's mindgames are not mindgames. you can read back for that
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@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527057#Comment_527057
@miaasma I'm sorry if it seems like I 'invent' things. I just have a lot of theories, because it feels so strange (to me) how you find Spirit a low skill killer. But to be completely fair, I consider Nurse low skill myself because I, like you, found her effortless.
You might literally be too good, or you faced bad teams. It's tough to tell. But looking at your rank, which is the same as mine, and I face SWF galore, I think you might just be good naturally. Like me and Nurse.
Even if that is the case, some of your points are still incorrect.
if a survivor knew when she was using her power, the playing field would be balanced. you still wouldn't know where she was coming from but you could at least attempt to outplay her. as it currently stands you don't even know when she's using her power so all you can do is guess
See, the playing field would NOT be balanced. Survivors would just vault over the pallets, or walk off with Iron will which ruins the sense of predicting and skill behind it. It'd pretty much kill Spirit.
see, where i think we're at right now is what we consider "fair" is different
in your given scenario, if survivors knew when she was using her power and did things like vaulting pallets or windows, she would have to actually predict survivors actions instead of just standing there and reacting to it. there'd be prediction on both sides instead of just survivors having to guess. it would be a fair playing field and would actually involve skill on both sides
people don't want this because they are used to spirit "outplaying" people by default. it wouldn't be fair in their mind because they would have to actually outplay someone
fyi, i've played less than 10 spirit games in total since her release. i just have a good pair of headphones and i know how good players use them from playing against them a lot. nurse is easier to win with but requires more practice to learn than spirit. winning with spirit requires no practice, just a basic understanding of her power
for the record, i'm not trying to dump on spirit mains. spirit is extremely fun to play. i just wish games against her were less of a dice roll, i hope that makes sense
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@PoisonN said:
Spirit is bad for the game because she's not a potato that I can control like Bubba, Plague, Pig, Trapper, Wraith and Legion
Plase devs nerf her, I want to win.. HAVE FUN 😭😭😭😭
yes how awful that i want to actually have input in my interactions with a killer, how very entitled
i didn't really expect anything else when i posted in this thread but it's stuff that needs to be said regardless of the swaths of killer mains/spirit enthusiasts rushing to the defense of their beloved free win killer, just half baked responses and downvotes
there are people who think 3 blink nurse is also fair and balanced, food for thought
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527078#Comment_527078
I would hate to see you get caught in a corner against Sub Zero in MK11.
Btw, if you are feeling this way about her, she's already won the mindgame before you even started. You already lost by assuming she's unbeatable
these responses are great
nothing substantive at all about what counterplay spirit has (because she has none), just quips about mindgames or whatever
i still win against most spirits because most spirits are bad at the game
it doesn't mean i did anything special to outplay them, it just means they screwed up. that is the whole point. "just hope she screws up" is how you play against spirit. how people think this is good design is hysterical to me. i guess they just like playing spirit and winning with the minimum possible effort
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@NoShinyPony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/526671#Comment_526671
@Tsulan Really? These are the only ones I won't lose in the cornfield. 😀
that's the point
they don't care if you find them because they're confident
people who hide all game with blendy clothing tend to go down 5 seconds after you find them
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@YouGotMeHooked said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527050#Comment_527050
She has counter plays, you also have to out play her next move or perform certain jukes.
"she has counterplay, just outplay her" wow, such in-depth and descriptive stratagems
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@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527041#Comment_527041
@miaasma she's not bad for the game. We both know that. I have a feeling you got dominated by them so you say this about her. Since I don't think you'd call her easy if you played her at the top of ranks.
i was rank 4 when i last played spirit and it was easy. you can continue to just invent things to make my posts invalid if you want but none of it is based on anything
survivors have no input in interactions with a spirit, all that matters is whether or not the spirit screws up. survivors just have to hope she's bad. that's awful design
if a survivor knew when she was using her power, the playing field would be balanced. you still wouldn't know where she was coming from but you could at least attempt to outplay her. as it currently stands you don't even know when she's using her power so all you can do is guess
spirit doesn't have to guess because she gets tells for where survivors are in the form of scratch marks and sounds. she can also just stand still and then use her power in response to what she sees the survivor do before activating it. even worse, she can accidentally bump into the survivor mid-phase because she gets collision while phasing for some stupid reason, giving her another free tell
people have convinced themselves that this constitutes a "mindgame" but you can't mindgame someone if they have no opportunity to react to anything. it's a guessing game and it's boring and the worst killer players find success with it
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@YouGotMeHooked said:
Just run iron will, thank me later.
running a perk is not counterplay
people should not have to run a perk in order to outplay a killer
if a killer has no in-game counterplay, there's an issue, and that perfectly describes spirit
unfortunately, spirit mains are just about as bad as nurse mains in that they've convinced themselves their killer is fair no matter what you tell them, so these topics never go anywhere
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@NuclearBurrito said:
She's the only Killer that relies on mind games. That kind of gameplay is never OP so long as the other side knows to expect it (which is why people complain about specifically prayer beads so much)
spirit has nothing to do with mindgames
we covered this in another thread
spirit is bad for the game
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it's pretty easy to make survivors drop these pallets
jungle gyms waste far more of your time as killer
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/526187#Comment_526187
You veered into reddit when you thought prayer beads were op.
and here's the spirit main cognitive dissonance
playing with your friends is op but uncounterable addons are fair
back to reddit with you
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@se05239 said:
It'll try and match you with players from your close vicinity, then expand outwards and eventually include the whole world.
That's how I've come to understand it.
that's what they said but that's not what's being reflected in the current system
so something is either horribly wrong, which wouldn't be terribly surprising, or they're trying another approach
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this sounds horrendous
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it sounds like less of a problem with the mettle nerf itself and more of a problem of protection hit detection
it's been wonky for a long time so hopefully they put some effort into fixing how they work too
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/525878#Comment_525878
Sounds about as fair as SWF.
is this reddit
did i take a wrong turn
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/526143#Comment_526143
@Paladin_Goo again, it's not a nerf to the perks, but the ability to chain them together and make it nearly impossible for a killer to down a survivor when they are chained.
i don't notice any real issue when these perks are chained together. MoM by itself is dumb but the rest rarely come into play
my biggest issue is people who use MoM and bring syringes into games
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/526081#Comment_526081
Drop a survivor so you can go loop his buddies for more distraction from gens? Makes sense.
Also, pretty hard to face a wall if you down a survivor out in the open, away from anything you can face. Why do people act like you're always next to a wall?
you don't need to face a wall
bait the pickup and then chase the person coming for the FL save
even suddenly turning around and picking up makes getting a save extremely hard with how the timing is now
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/526092#Comment_526092
Try staying on topic instead of strawmanning ######### that wasn't even brought up bro.
I agree DS is fine now.
BT doesn't always need a camper, you could be LEAVING the hook and someone who was already there rushes a save before you can walk away. That's not the Killers fault.
Deliverance is fine.
MoM nerf is fine.
Adrenaline could still probably use a nerf. By your logic, they don't deserve the Survivor if the gates are powered, yes? Apply that same logic to a Survivor, if you get hooked, you don't deserve to escape at all.
Have that same energy for both sides, otherwise you're just biased.
adrenaline is fine, people just get tilted over it because it's situationally annoying. same with dead hard
DS is fine until the end game. it could use some tweaking (maybe stop the timer if the unhooked person is in a chase, but have it go down faster when the killer is elsewhere) so that it serves its anti-tunneling purpose properly without giving people free escapes at the end of the game, but these are minor things and i'm okay with DS overall
BT is fine, hit the unhooker
mettle is absolute nonsense and shouldn't even be in the game but they're nerfing it so whatever
deliverance is also fine
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flashlights are the most counterable item in the game
if you're having issues with them it's 100% your fault
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ebony moris and syringes are still in the game
this game has a long way to go as far as "balance" is concerned
it's better to just not care and enjoy it anyway
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@Blueberry said:
15% repair speed debuff while fully infected/broken and 1 random fountain will become corrupted every minute.
sounds about as fair as prayer beads
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@artist said:
megs with Zoey pants are actual gods. trust me
stop this
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survival points are hard to get without repeatedly escaping from bear traps. they could definitely add more opportunities to get more survival points instead of making escaping the top priority
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claudettes who aren't wearing blendy clothing tend to be good at the game
they don't make me go "oh great" though since i prefer playing against good players over bad ones who hide all game
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playing billy well (curving, flicking) is way harder than spirit. it's in a whole other league than spirit
honestly playing an m1 killer is harder than spirit
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don't feel bad when you get teabagged by people you didn't even see all game
they're proud of holding m1 on generators and leaving and that's their issue
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it's been great for me but mostly because i've been running into both survivors and killers i know on both sides
i'm sure i'll run into some ebony moris soon