jesterkind
jesterkind
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2564194#Comment_2564194
If it's a balancing problem, then it's an MMR problem since that's the whole design of MMR. To balance players skill levels against each other so that you're in the same bracket. Also, negative to your claim. Before they kicked out the ranked system, I was doing niche builds on Rank 1 and my matches against Survivors were a lot more casual than they are now. That's not to say it was balanced before. I will admit that there were times I went against SWF death squads that absolutely destroyed me when I had my best on and times that I gone against absolute potatoes. BUT, the majority of my games were relatively even in skill level. Any mistake I made on my part, I suffered for but the game didn't end immediately by it depending on when it was made.
Now? I rarely get any casual plays. It's always against meta running groups where a majority of them appear to run comms based on how they move and play. And by your logic, it does need a casual mode. You said so yourself that this is a COMPetitive game. A lot of people want to do PvP and enjoy it without having to go balls to the wall just to secure 1-2 Kills if you're lucky. If every other PvP game is able to do it, then DBD can as well. This would probably solve the big queue issue right now too that a lot of people are experiencing since this MMR release.
Addressing the most important but also the simplest point first: "competitive" =/= "serious ranked-mode tryhard". Competitive just means you're competing against other players, even if it's a casual competitive game. That's why you shouldn't put too much stock in a loss- do you give half a damn when you lose in Mario Kart or Smash Bros? It's not that serious.
Anyway: I'm not saying that the balancing problem is completely independent of the MMR system, I'm saying that the fix for this issue doesn't involve changing the MMR system in any way - though I would like to see some improvements to that system where possible, those improvements not being in place aren't causing the problem, the game's balance problem areas at higher ranks is what's causing the problem.
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@Legionair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2564171#Comment_2564171
for most killers, at a loop they rely on a survivor to make the mistake in order to get a hit because of how loops are set up, they do their best with red glow mindgames and moonwalking but ultimately its up to the survivor to mess up. some killers with a good m2 can still end a chase at a loop regardless but if survivors are good it will take a while. so IF the survivor did/didnt vault, IF they didnt instadrop the pallet, IF they didnt see you moonwalk, then they maybe get a hit/down unless you have Dead Hard. Spirit made survivors guess if she was going a certain way and make their predictions based off of where she last was etc, she mad SURVIVORS have to try to mindgame HER with scratchmarks etc.
That's not a mindgame, though? The reason mindgaming at loops works is because both parties are lacking information- you can't see the survivor and the survivor can't see you, hence why moonwalking and such sometimes works out for you and sometimes doesn't. With the Spirit, there is no mindgame- she knows where you are and you don't know where she is. Zero input from the survivor, they just make a guess and hope it works out.
Some specific killers being a little weak in chase doesn't justify the Spirit having zero counterplay beyond guessing, this is a weird point.
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2564142#Comment_2564142
Not every match should be a hard loss or sweat fest either. If a player comes in to casually play (I.E bringing niche builds, non-meta, no slowdown perks, etc.), and gets repeatedly stomped by teams who are all running the stereotypical meta load outs and capping gens in under 5 minutes, there's a problem. That's not fun for anyone. If you enjoy playing hard, cool that's you. But not everyone wants to come home and tear their hair out after being on a losing streak. Especially when you go against toxic players.
That's why most games that are competitive have a quickplay (Non-Ranked) game and a competitive (Ranked) game. To separate the casual players from the players who take it seriously.
That's a balance problem, not an MMR problem, and it was the case before the MMR introduction too. You may see slightly fewer people goofing off in your games now, but the risk of bringing fun niche builds and getting stomped was always extremely real and this genuinely hasn't changed that beyond slightly adjusting the percent-chance of being ######### over.
This game doesn't need a casual mode because it's not the kind of game that works like a ranked mode either. This system doesn't need changing or reverting- the game just needs to be balanced so the meta isn't so overwhelmingly strong on both sides.
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Personally, I'm holding off on Prestige-ing even characters I want the cosmetics for just in case the new system would be less punishing. I've got retired offerings and such on some killers, I'm hoping I don't have to lose those with the new system.
I can't imagine they're going to remove the bloody cosmetics, so if there are new rewards I imagine they'd be on top of, not instead of, the current ones.
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@Legionair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2564156#Comment_2564156
just like every other killer besides nurse being dependent on IF the survivor makes the wrong read to get a hit at a good loop
Could you elaborate? I'm not understanding your point, sorry.
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I've personally been playing him more, but that's kind of a coincidence, it's not influenced by the new movie- not seen that yet.
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@Legionair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2564121#Comment_2564121
Spirit only had scratch marks to make a read, if you walked away with iron will you were fine, SHE had to make a read as much as survivors did
So IF you had a specific perk and IF you didn't rustle the environment and IF the Spirit player isn't smart enough to just cancel her power when they notice there aren't any more scratch marks, you were fine?
That's not counterplay. That's getting lucky. You, as the survivor, had no cues of any kind to make a read or make a play with, you just had to guess and hope. Now, you'll have those cues- and she's probably still going to hit you because she's very very strong.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2564137#Comment_2564137
Isn't the buff he's getting a numerical buff?
I meant on the addons- he's getting more interesting and interactive addons that might give him a little more of an edge, instead of just increasing/decreasing relevant time values.
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I can still have fun because I honestly haven't noticed that much of a difference. Sure, some of my games are a little harder, mostly on the killers I did best with before the MMR introduction, but it's a competitive game- I should be going against players who can deal with the skill I'm bringing to the table.
Not every match should be a stomp, and there's really no reason not to be okay with losing, either. You don't really lose anything since you can't lose grades, and MMR isn't a progression system so """losing""" MMR is a non-issue- any time you lose take it as a learning opportunity, or shrug and move on to the next one. There's no reason to assume you "should" have won, or "should" have gone against less skilled opponents.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2564131#Comment_2564131
Why did he need buffs again? Because people can dead hard through his traps? That's one perk, and pretty easy to play around...
Nah dude- he's been clunky and outdated for a while. He's a setup killer that has severe trouble setting up at the start of the match, and most of his addons are simple numerical buffs that don't really help him out very much. Any halfway decent survivor knows to be careful and to disarm traps where they can, so he's already starting at a huge disadvantage.
The buffs he's getting are both common-sense and badly needed.
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He's needed these buffs for a loooooong time. I'm one of the eleven discrete Trapper mains in the game currently and I wholeheartedly welcome new members to the fold for tea and biscuits.
Seriously, though, just the two traps at base is already going to make him so much more fun to play, I'm really looking forward to it.
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@Legionair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563217#Comment_2563217
Would have been so much easier/better to just fix it so you could hear her in her power even inside her terror radius, the directional and footprints idea was just some extra stuff to knock her down a peg and get survivors more in the power role and not have to make any reads
It's giving survivors something they can actually use to make a read, what are you talking about? If they don't know where she is, they're not "making a read", they're guessing.
Spirit is still going to stomp on people who aren't on the ball and skilled enough to use this information. She's still going to be very strong against people who are on the ball and skilled enough to use this information, it's just not a guaranteed hit anymore. Which... it shouldn't be.
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Nah, I'm still enjoying killer just as much. My games are slightly harder, but I don't mind trying a little more in a competitive game.
I have decided to learn more killers since my highest MMR killer (Wraith) is getting pretty tricky, but I was already doing that to a lesser degree, so no huge change there.
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@Mandy said:
I'm definitely looking forward to the new survivor, I need to actually try to save up some BP this time and not spend them prior to release.
Extremely guilty of Not doing this myself, so I feel that
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I'm immensely looking forward to it- albeit more for the suite of buffs to various killers and perks than for Mikaela herself, but she's cute so I'll still be pleased to see her in the Trials.
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Certain perks would benefit from being token-based, but it absolutely should not be the norm. Tokens should be used when that makes the most sense for the perk to be designed- there are plenty of perks that should just work without having to be token based or having bizarre activation requirements.
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@botrax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563293#Comment_2563293
For me that change ruin the killer and i regret every BP i invest in him now. That more or less 10 million bp wasted that i could put on another killer or better on the new survivor that coming out
Sure, you're entitled to that. If you enjoy one specific thing and that one specific thing is changed, it's valid to be mildly annoyed with it.
Doesn't mean BHVR did anything wrong or that the change wasn't needed, though.
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@botrax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563271#Comment_2563271
For me quickscoping was the only thing deathslinger had for himself compare to huntress specially because i could use my skill from the shooter game i play in the game but now all of that is worthless.
I know for the player who use deathslinger because he could quickscope they would probably stop playing him because its too slow compare to before.
You talk how unfun quickscoping is for the survivor but that what make deathslinger fun in my opinion.
If they want to remove the unfun thing they should do something about the hold w meta too but that another conversation and irelevant to the post
Yeah, I don't have that much sympathy there. I do sympathise with something you enjoyed being taken from the game, but I'm sure anyone who used something obnoxious for the other side would find that fun- I imagine old Object of Obsession and Decisive Strike were pretty fun for the survivor side, but they still needed to be changed.
Deathslinger was given buffs to compensate for the annoying thing being taken away, so that's totally fine. Nothing to be mad at here, just momentarily bummed if you enjoyed quickscoping.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DFB0YGTY67J8/screenshot-2021-09-26-054113.jpg
I guess caring about my teammates is overpowered
Good name tho
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@botrax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563217#Comment_2563217
I dont really play her because i suck with her so her nerf wont touch me when i play her but i know my game against her will be easier by a lot. And i wont need to do any read against her the game will tell me the direction she phase.
Spirit real power was to make my teamate kill themself or DC lmao.
What im mad about in that patch are the deathslinger nerf the removal of quickscope is dumb and i see no reason not to learn huntress huntress over dearhslinger
No reason to be mad about those either. The removal of quickscope may be unfortunate for people who enjoyed using it, but it was incredibly unfun and obnoxious to go against, so it only makes sense they'd shift him to require a little more commitment before landing a hit. He got buffs to compensate, so he's going to be just as fine as he was before.
Granted, the TR increase is a little questionable, that might end up hurting him unnecessarily. Wait and see on that one, I suppose- or grind for Monitor and Abuse on him, maybe?
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Oh, I have a really easy answer for this one- it's a comment a salty survivor left on my steam profile, saying, and I quote;
"you aren't good at the game, you just play bubba. learn to get good at the game"
That made me laugh long enough that I left it up, toxicity is fine when it's that damn funny
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@botrax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563085#Comment_2563085
Spirit wont be a top tier pick after those nerf. Maybe for the console player with crossplay off shes still going to be top tier but not for pc.
The thing is all are green addon and up are kinda bad now or they are fun addon but fun addon are not strong.
The worst thing is the dev are not finish with the spirit nerf. They did not have the time to add the dust kicking animation so just remember that nerf is coming to her kit soon enough unless the dev change their mind.
First of all, they said they're keeping an eye on her to see if the dust kicking nerf is necessary. Maybe they'll do it, maybe they won't, but right now we'll be talking about Spirit as she was in the PTB, not with hypothetical changes added on top.
Her addons look pretty fine. Slightly gimmicky for some of them, but the better killer instinct one and the instant power recharge ones look very solid, so she's not been screwed on her addons. As for her basekit, she still retains all of her actual strengths and she's still substantially faster than survivors-- literally the only thing that's changed is that you can't stand still to mindgame, and very good survivors might not go down immediately if they make a good move. She's going to be fine, calm down.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563171#Comment_2563171
It warrants this response because when a company is so out of touch with their product people will call them out.
Sure, I'm not particularly interested in debating that point with you. When a company is so out of touch, people will call them out. Agreed!
Since this video didn't display that, though, this post and its responses remain embarrassing.
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An option to disable the chat box for people who don't want to see it won't impact the game that much, so I support that. I don't think removing it entirely is the right call, though.
Just fix the profanity filter, it wouldn't be that hard.
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It won't be as much of a problem after the midchapter patch, but the quick-switching was mostly a problem because survivors would quick-swap to keys without giving the killer any time to prepare for it by bringing perks like Franklin's.
Honestly, quick-swapping was never the problem, it's the strength of the things they could quick-swap to that made it obnoxious.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563137#Comment_2563137
I’ve said this before but I’ll repeat it again:
Some people waste more time running in a straight line than trying to loop. So BHVR is still incorrect.
What the video should have said is (condensed):
Depending on your surroundings, make use of the environment by dropping pallets and vaulting windows or simply run as far from the killer as possible.
^ Not a perfect description but you get the idea.
That's complicating it for a level of skill where it won't matter, though.
I'm not saying your version is incorrect, but the version in that video isn't either. It's not displaying a lack of understanding of their own game, it's simplifying their own game to explain it to someone who's totally new to it. You'll notice the video doesn't mention how many generators there are on the map, or the other item types, or any other even basic-level aspect, because it's a very brief overview of the game.
Could it have been phrased better? Probably. Did it warrant this kind of response? Not even remotely and it's actively embarrassing that this many people reacted this way.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563122#Comment_2563122
Even if it’s aimed at new players, they literally said verbatim “running in a straight line will prove futile”. That’s simply not true.
When the killer is right on you, and you're a new player, yes it is true. Even if it's not true under all circumstances, the point isn't for it to be the takeaway- the thing new players are supposed to take from that isn't "pallets and windows are always better", it's "pallets and windows exist"
This isn't a strategy guide, it's the "dip your toes in" barebones overview of the game, and under that context, what it says is true.
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While this is a pretty decent idea in theory, I don't think you have to do something that drastic and complicated- map tile spawning can be equalized better than it currently is anyway.
The knowledge of how to run certain tiles should make things easier for the side that knows how to do it better, the problem is that experienced survivors often have that knowledge and a completely busted setup- or they have that knowledge but they get screwed over hard by map RNG, since it doesn't matter how good you are if you get a Coal Tower with basically no good loops at all.
This is one of those occasions where trying to hit a middle ground actually is the best option, imo.
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...This is aimed at new players who may not immediately catch on that looping is a thing, and it's designed to coax them into using the environment more. Holding W may be the right call sometimes but that's getting into a slightly more advanced area where you know the basics of the game, and this video is the basics of the game.
So yes, they said it, because it's correct and they should've said it. New players do need to be told that pallets and windows are a thing, that's what this video is for. Later on, probably not even that much later, they can be told that sometimes you don't need to waste resources and that running forward is the best call.
Genuinely, what did you want this to say? It's for onboarding totally new players so you simplify the concepts, which may lead to saying things more experience players know to ignore in some circumstances. This is totally expected and legitimate, nobody has done anything wrong here.
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Legion for sure. Only cosmetic I've ever bought is Susie's neon paint skin.
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@Ruma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2558935#Comment_2558935
She surely needed a nerf, but not what they did to her.
"What they did" being... making it so survivors have the tiniest sliver of information and thus the ability to mindgame instead of making a guess based on nothing?
She's going to be fine. More than that, she's still going to be a top tier pick.
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You know, I get that 100k isn't very much, but it's clearly not their replacement for fixing the grind so what's the point in even bringing it up in this context?
I get being annoyed at the grind but this is hardly the place for those complaints.
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I don't hate this idea at all, but I think some of these nerfs might be a little bit too harsh. But the idea of reducing item rarities to one or maybe two, and having the stronger effects be more about addons, would actually help quite a bit with the grind for survivors since they don't have to replace all the items they want to use, and only have to be concerned with picking up the right addons for it instead.
Items should still be a little stronger at base than what you're laying out here, but that also should come with the addons being substantially weaker at the higher tiers. I think we can all agree some survivor addons are just busted currently, so something clearly needs to be done about that.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2562847#Comment_2562847
Why would you use boon totem at the start of the game, when everyone is healthy?
You want to do gen first.
Problem is when you have each survivor spawned alone near gen, then killer just lost 3 gens for 1 down and there is not much he can do about it.
I would make it that everyone starts together on other side of the map than killer. You can move offerings that change spawning to survivors. So killer at least know about it and can try change play-style to counter it, somehow...
Of course, when everyone use Brand New Part, then balance on gen speed in out of the window.
I said like boon totems. I don't think boon totems are really going to be enough on their own, but they're a great direction to go in to see what else can be added in a similar vein. Though, to be fair, it's possible they'll add boon perks that are more useful at the very start of the match, though idk what those'd be.
Fixing spawns is definitely required no matter what else they do, though.
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@Dino7281 said:
Gen speed is fine, spawns are bigger problem.
This is much more on the money imo. Spawns and other factors, not gen speed. Maybe some gen speed addons/perks should be looked at, but the time it takes to do generators at base is definitely not the problem.
Also, the fact that the beginning of the game has nothing at all for the survivors to do as they spawn in other than latch on to a generator. Obviously a huge second objective would make the game very substantially different, but things like boon totems to encourage doing something other than a generator at the start of the match are very much the right move to make, so I hope we see more like that in the future.
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I'm intrigued to read more of his lore above all else, I quite like him as a character and I like Yun-Jin even more.
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I'd imagine they try not to respond to threads with too much hostility, negativity, and toxicity. Which, paired with the fact that any thread which gains enough traction to potentially warrant viewing almost always has some portion of that, probably means they don't want to encourage that behaviour too much.
Doesn't matter how good your feedback is if it's paired with a tone of "i can't believe you haven't done this yet, it's pathetic, you're terrible developers and this game is trash".
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Reskin Hawkins as a Trickster map. Easiest decision of my life.
Hard agree. The layout probably wouldn't be too hard to make into the studio his former bandmates died in, for instance.
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Probably a pretty big one, but my priority would be looking at how the randomised tile spawn thing works. It currently has way too many edge cases that screw over one side, killer or survivor, and that's not super fair.
Other than that, totem spawns. They should be way more consistent than they currently are.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561598#Comment_2561598
While i agree anything that takes a survivor off a gen is good. The issue is killer already has enough tasks to worry about. Adding more stuff to survivor is good but killer is already pressed for time.
I'm not sure how much of a concern that will be, honestly. Remember that the killer only has to juggle multiple things because their only objective - the survivors - are spread out among those things. If multiple survivors are in one place, that place is where the killer should be spending their extremely precious time anyway.
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There's no benefit to playing when these are the emotions doing so brings out, so I definitely recommend you take a break.
It became a meme for no reason, when whichever dev it was who said it was just completely correct: try survivor for a bit, or maybe play something else.
How about Civ?
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561564#Comment_2561564
Thats my biggest issue with boon totems. I cant relite ruin or devour hope. Why arent their totem perks high risk like mine?
Because they aren't designed to be. They're designed to be renewable safe areas the survivor will want to leave their objective to take advantage of, and that's why they're a good idea for the game. Time survivors spend travelling to a boon totem or lighting a boon totem to begin with is time they're not spending on a generator.
Much can be said about whether this'll work as well as it could due to poor totem placement and other factors, but the answer isn't to make them single use, or even limited use. They have a very specific idea in mind that people who claim they should be permanently breakable are completely ignoring.
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@Unifall said:
Imagine saying "She is the most broken character in the game". Nurse takes alot of skill to play. People who can do extremely well with nurse have put alot of effort into mastering her. But hey let's nerf another killer because survivors "can't have fun" only at the expense of the killer.
A few people in this thread aren't calling her broken because she's unfair or unbalanced in matches she's actively playing, but because of the knock-on effect she has on balancing other aspects of the game. It wouldn't be right or balanced to make a change that Nurse can use to gain a gigantic advantage, but that means a lot of things which would just be decent and reasonable on other killers can't really realise their full potential for fear of creating a monster in Nurse.
Does that make sense?
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...This is bait, right?
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@SweetTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561412#Comment_2561412
Never really thought about it being tied to achievements before, so I guess that makes some kind of sense, but if that's the case then it highlights just how much it doesn't tie into the game anymore.
Probably, but it's one of the less objectionable leftover mechanics imo. At least this one provides some players with more of a structured challenge for their win, if they don't like the simple kill/escape format.
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I imagine the pip/emblem system is still in place because (at least for now) a few other things depend on it, like Archive challenges and Adept achievements for killer. It is still a more forgiving system now, though, because you can't depip far enough to lose a grade.
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561369#Comment_2561369
It'd still be way too niche, you could make the perk map wide and even then it'd still be kinda mid
True, but I think it's okay to have perks that aren't super strong as long as they do their job okay/fit into a build of some kind even if it's a gimmick build, and I think pairing Coulrophobia with the Mangled status effect would fit that criteria.
Regarding Unnerving Presence, I had an idea for that. Instead of shrinking the success zones, I think it should make any skill check old Ruin skill checks while the survivor is in the terror radius. Not that useful, but immediately much better than the hot garbage it is right now.
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@MrCalac123 said:
Dead Hard, Iron Will, NOED, Monstrous Shrine, Overcharge, Coulrophobia, Unnerving Presence, Territorial Imperative
Full rework for Coulrophobia? I think that just needs a small buff, give it a lingering effect for a short duration and it'd be fine imo
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The idea was tossed around a little while ago in the community that it'd be nice to have little action-status symbols next to someone's name to show when they're doing a generator, in a chase, cleansing bones, etc etc. I think that'd do wonders to bridge the gap and I don't think it'd be too difficult to work into the game's aesthetic, so I really think it's the best first step.
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@snek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561033#Comment_2561033
aren't grades only for monthly rewards now?
Grades still work on the Emblem system, and the Emblem system is what governs whether you get Brutal/Ruthless/Merciless Killer, and so they're still relevant to Adept achievements.