fulltonon
fulltonon
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@SunsetSherbet said:
I mean I agree, but at the same time Otz's opinions aren't law and he has plenty of suspect and bizarre tier placements such as considering Freddy one of the worst killers, and seeming to always believe Legion is upper C to mid tier despite no one else on Earth feeling that way.
Also one of the issue with condemn is that you have to go to a survivor and win a chase against them once their are condemned, and they can also remove said condemn. A survivor can get condemned and then run off and clear it if you don't go over there and win a chase immediately. I've already had survivors flat out intentionally get condemned because they 1. Figured I'd want to try and get the kill and 2. Figured they could waste a lot of my time looping me if I got tunnel visioned into "I MUST GET THIS DOWN FOR THE MORI" while gens pop around me. And if you don't go for the mori immediately, you lose the chance entirely. If you compare this to say, Pig traps, Pig doesn't need to do anything. If the trap goes off, you die. She doesn't need to walk on over and down you. Condemn rarely ever happens and even on the rare case it does, it still doesn't mean you're going to get a kill from it unless you decide that it's worth it to drop everything and solely focus on chasing one guy regardless of how long it takes. So it rarely activates and even when it does, it's still not a guarantee it'll do anything at all.
Freddy is nothing more than M1 killer with weak anti-loop and a teleport, he is surely one of worst killers akin to legion.
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@Plsfix369 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843911#Comment_2843911
That's where latency and short range blinks come in, there's no anticipation if she can charge her blink for a half second and wreck you then next.
Nurse has no counter play in Mid to short distance ranges, cause she can blink twice faster than you can juke, not to mention the small latency on both sides that makes the nurse blink faster than what you can see on your screen.
All the Nurse has to do is catch up to you in mid to close range in order to land a SURE AND EXACT PINPOINT HIT.
The only way a nurse can mess up is if she always swings in the first blink trying to overreach or doesn't see where she's going.
No killers have counter play in close range, they really shouldn't.
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MMR system is better than prior system because you aren't locked on to sweatiest MMR anymore, if you don't like sweat, just go down the way.
Problem is on matchmaking itself, not the rating.
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@_AdamFrancis_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843346#Comment_2843346
Say what counterplay she has. All counterplay she has is countered by being good with her. Also maybe your just going against bad nurses 😴
All counterplay she has against all counterplay is countered by being good with survivors, maybe survivors are just bad against nurses.
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@OpenX said:
Funny, I just dodge private profiles and I never play against hackers. Haven't seen one in months.
That's only possible for killers, I suppose...
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Meanwhile nurse needs a buff, she is statistically weakest of all killers and needs some serious help.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2844104#Comment_2844104
I guess a 15-second cooldown is no restriction. I guess not being able to go through walls and pallets is no restrictions (Nurse can do that no problem). She’s got directional audio now meaning you can hear where she’s coming from. Git gud mate.
Yes, it is no restriction just like nurse's fatigue, blink charge time or cooldown and super slow movement speed is not a restriction.
Not being able to go through walls and palettes doesn't matter too because with extreme speed of her she can catch survivors regardless of those things, when she is skilled enough.
Directional audio doesn't help either, because even if you run away you will get caught thanks to her super speed, there is nothing survivors can do to counter this power because good spirit always know where survivors go and what they do, mindgame is not a reliable counter.
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@ElizaSteph said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2844071#Comment_2844071
I’m saying they throw it when there is no way to dodge it. It requires no risk to one shot someone you’re behind on is in animation lock. It’s basically used as an insta M1. Normally m1s are easier to get so it takes two to down you. I don’t think the devs intented iri head to be used as basically M1s shots close to people. “You’re dead any way with it without” isn’t true, because in normal situations you get distance and get two hits instead of one. This wasn’t meant to be rude or condescending or anything, im just saying I think the perk was meant to reward huntresses who played more risky and used it at distances to benefit as opposed to huntresses who just use it super close up on people.
It's on you if there is no way to dodge it, no survivors should be forced to go into deadzone by 4.4 killers unless all palettes are dead.
hitting with M1 as 4.4 killer is extremely hard and pretty much all of them have extremely strong power to complement it, and even with normal situation you will die with M1 hatchet because stun is much shorter than normal M1, most of the time huntress can catchup before you reach anywhere.
I think this addon is meant to reward careful huntresses because it will punish risky play while rewarding careful and accurate shot, "reward huntress who played more risky" is literally opposite of what it does, I don't think dev intended exactly opposite of what it does when they designed this, I mean it's pretty much impossible unless everything mess up so badly.
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1. Play with no perk no power until you can get merciless.
2. now your opponent is adept viable.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2844043#Comment_2844043
You know it’s amazing really. Spirit gets directional audio and reliable counterplay yet you still wanna throw shade at people that enjoy Spirit until Spirit is gutted into being unfun and clunky.
Doesn't matter, she has no counterplay when user is skilled enough, she is bloodlust 15 with no restriction after all.
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It's just ONE hatchet, just dodge it.
And if you can't dodge it, you are dead anyway with or without iri head.
This addon is fine, maybe too weak.
if survivors allow her to get close, it's on survivors as she is literally M1 4.4 killer without hatchets.
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@Vlarian said:
Nurse is stupidly powerful, but survivors can totally out-skill her. The survivors need to completely change their looping style to LOS blocking and unpredictable pathing. Sorta like huntress, but to an extreme because she literally throws herself at you. If a survivor uses pallets, windows, holding W, yeah obviously they're gonna cry and rage on forums that she's "overpowered" because they last 10 seconds in a chase where they give the killer free hits by being in the open.
I'm mostly sure it'll take something more than 20 seconds due to health boost and dead hard.
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@tesla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2837877#Comment_2837877
He can still get 2k even so.
Seems like a perfectly balanced game, what's wrong with killer getting 2k? it's what BHVR is trying to achieve after all.
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I can't help but laugh when spirit main says "nurse is broken".
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843172#Comment_2843172
Or maybe you played against bad survivors 1-5 times. So you thought you are good with her. But then you played against good survivors and you thought killer is weak? But maybe you were not good with her at all?
This game is not a rocket science, being "bad" at literal M1 stealth killer like her is not possible.
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@Pukenplag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843371#Comment_2843371
I am starting to believe you are trolling. There is no way you can be for real while saying Nurse is bad or deserves buffs.
Well when I'm saying she is bad and needs a buff, It's more of a sarcasm or something.
When I say she is fine, I'm real.
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@Pukenplag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843338#Comment_2843338
Definitely not a problem. A killer that is allowed to ignore walls and all the baricades survivors have against killers is not a problem.
Yes, it's not a problem when there is so much downside to the character itself.
Literally everything is proving she is fine, except someone who matched against a nurse with huge skill gap to survivors.
But well, if there is that much of skill gap, they will lose no matter who the killer is, and they should lose against skilled opponent.
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@_AdamFrancis_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842957#Comment_2842957
Nurse is not fine at all. She has no counterplay. If you think she is fine you are biased.
Can you elaborate? because all stats and tourney indicate she is counterable and plays just fine.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842929#Comment_2842929
Because all it does is make her more annoying to play as without getting to the root issue of why her power is problematic. The fact that she can ignore game mechanics at any time with little cooldown
The fact she can ignore game mechanics is not a problem, plenty other killers can do same with their powers.
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Jokes on you, I'm blaming other side even if I win as a killer.
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Sadly I don't see one, because it's a fact.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Perhaps, but the thing is, Nurse existing already makes it difficult to balance perks because of how they might perform on her.
If you buffed I’m All Ears to 12 seconds, would it be too strong on myers? Nah. Would it be too strong on nurse? Yeah, probably.
edit: replying to @fulltonon , forgot to quote sry
I mean, is killing a survivor using a perk that has bunch of cooldown is "too strong"?
I don't think she is the problem in balancing, it's not like if she made to be special attack only killer perks that activates on normal attack gets a buff.
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Yes, they will buff her 340days later.
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since she can't hit anything without her blink, I would say no.
I think removing entire capability to utilize specific kind of perks just because is not very good thing.
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Fact is they are ignoring EVERY complaints, not specifically killers.
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@Pukenplag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843023#Comment_2843023
Aka, she needs no addons. If we take those she is left with virtually nothing.
It is her basekit that needs changes. She needs counterplay. The idea with the blink recharge wad bad because it doesn't add counterplay, it just makes nurse less efficient.
Why do we need to change her basekit when it's proven to be everything else is broken and not her?
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@psionic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843034#Comment_2843034
They give less time to survivors to react or find safer positions. They make the Nurse player less punished in case of a unsuccessful blink.
Seems like an addon that helps nurse, but what's unfair about it exactly?
Something that makes killer strong and countering it harder is fine, addons and perks are meant to do that.
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@TatsuiChiyo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842425#Comment_2842425
I truly believe BHVR has been lying this whole time and there is no SBMM hoing on, cause it's either that or they reallt are the incompetent ***** they are said to be for such a pathetic system they have going on.
They literally stated SBMM will prefer quick que over balanced matches.
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@psionic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842970#Comment_2842970
She's definitely not balanced considered how bad are the vast majority of the other killers! She requires the survivors to act as a team, while the other killers struggle to go against ONE survivor. That's what DBD became when you play with weaker killers, 1x1, because they can't compete with 4 survivors.
The only thing that makes her unfair is the range and recharge addons, she do not need them.
What exactly makes those add-on unfair though, I'm always wondering when someone says an addon or killer is OP... but how?
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Excessively undertuned killer with fun concepts.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842904#Comment_2842904
Killers have plenty of ways to counter survivors, tunneling/camping is just easiest and strongest.
...Yes? I didn't said it's the only way to play.
I'm just stating killers tunneling/camping lose pressure while survivors holding W usually doesn't lose anything.
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@Sepex said:
Any secondary objective for survivors would crush low Mmr players. They can already barely last 2 seconds in a chase let alone having to do something before fixing a generator.
You have no reason to care about low mmr survivors as game is already broken at low MMR, adding another objective or even buffing killer a lot doesn't change anything because they are already dying within first 3 minutes.
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@Pukenplag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842989#Comment_2842989
Again, this only works the first time you try it. It's not hard to adjust to how the survivor plays.
And it's not hard to adjust to how the killer plays neither.
What's wrong with a killer who consists of mindgame and mechanical skill of both sides? this is just like many other PvP games which is considered far more balanced than DbD.
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@Pukenplag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842979#Comment_2842979
First counter is precisely what I asked for to be changed, as blinking down or up counters that.
I agree with blocking los.
Dh only works once.
Blinking down or up counters that but then you can just hold W once you realize she is doing that, which results in even more distance between two.
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@Pukenplag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842969#Comment_2842969
And I am still very curious too see what counterplay she has. Holding w doesn't work, looping doesn't work, being unpredictable doesn't work because she is allowed to swing anywhere she wants after a blink etc. How exactly is nurse countered?
There is nothing I can say exactly as countering her, it is quite complex.
the only thing I could say in certainty is dead hard, which forces her to blink one more time minimum and buys time no matter what, you don't even need any skill to do it.
If you really want to learn you can always play her yourself too, understanding how things work is the only way to play against it properly.
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@Pukenplag said:
And right now I am really, really confused. Everyone says how they hate nurse and how she is the best killer, but when I make a thread saying she needs counterplay people tell me that she's fine or even bad and that I need to learn how to counterplay.
I am done making threads about balance issues I have.
Every. Single. Time I make threads like these, suddenly everyone is fine with all the things they always call unbalanced.
generalizing entire community as "everyone" does no good for you, they are always different people with different opinion, of course you will meet different people if you make different thread.
She HAS counterplay, but most of survivors don't know how to, which results in excessive hate and unneeded nerf call for only truly balanced killer in this game, which is what you are seeing frequently I suppose.
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Does it increase condemn when they use self-care? if it doesn't, coh still hard counters her.
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Why entire survivor perks aren't disabled?
I know it will be much better for game, everyone would enjoy this game more and super healthy for the future.
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@Murgleïs said:
Not trying to taunt but maybe you should learn to counter her instead of asking for nerfs.
About stats : very few killers mains play her, and fewer are good with her (her winrates are horrible).
I mean, every one of evidence shows that she is completely fine.
On average gameplay, she is horrible, worst of entire roster and has pretty bad win rate.
On high-level gameplay, she is well balanced killer, she is one of few killers who is "balanced" even against full-stacked SWF survivors, with her fullest potential.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842934#Comment_2842934
Because her best add-ons remove the only possible counterplay she has which is run
Other two counter play which is run backward and don't run is still there, what are you talking about?
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842922#Comment_2842922
Hey what's up youtube here's a 25 minutes video that explains how to counter nurse well basically be unpredictable and don't loop her normally thanks for watching peace ✌🏻
Oh nice, you've summarized it very well, it's such an easy killer to counter, maybe easiest.
I wonder why people feel she has no counterplay when it is THIS simple.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842915#Comment_2842915
Not really. All it would serve to do is make her more annoying to play as which isn’t fair to the people playing her. What we need is actual changes to give her fair counterplay while keeping her fun to play as
She has countless amount of fair counterplay, there is plenty of videos that explain how to deal with her, even at tourney level her kill rate is 50% or something.
I don't get why you think she is not fine.
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@Phasmamain said:
Nurse needs a lot more changes than that to be balanced.
Yeah, she needs a lot more buffs, her kill rate is so bad, basically worst killer of entire roster.
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Blinking down/up doesn't decrease time it takes to finish a blink, it still takes same seconds as going proper distance, practically giving distance to opponent as long as survivors are careful enough, it's rather risky play to do.
Removing it doesn't really change her effectiveness for 99% of situation, if anything, it will buff nurse on average as baby nurses will now understand this is not something they should rely on.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842854#Comment_2842854
The difference is, you're forced to run from a killer (or you die and lose), camping & tunneling is a choice that may help you in some matches but absolutely isn't always necessary.
Survivors have plenty of way to counter killers, holding W is just easiest and strongest.
You are simply not correct.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842149#Comment_2842149
That would net you 2points in total, if you cant get 5hooks in a 3v1 then yes you probably dont deserve the rank increase.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842156#Comment_2842156
This is a SBMM that means skill based matchmaking, this system would reward skill. Like I said the only reason youd hate this system is if you face camp as bubba or something....
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842153#Comment_2842153
So the goal of the SBMM isnt to determine skill? Ah see that's where I was going wrong, since the title has Skill in the name I'd assume that's what it was aiming for
"don't deserve rank increase"? now I see what's wrong with your opinion.
So I can like, bleed out four people every match and still be able to play against noobs, yeah not opposed to it as lowering MMR only does good for me.
Remember, MMR is not a reward, but more of a punishment for playing sweaty.
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@Shroompy said:
I mean theres nothing wrong with it, think of it like camping/tunneling
Perfectly fine to do, but can be VERY unfun for the opposing side
The difference is survivor loses nothing by doing this as opposed to camping/tunneling.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842114#Comment_2842114
You do realize that there is a BIG difference between players who play the game as thier Job and regular players who play to "try" to have fun. Those who play the game as thier Job would have put more time and energy into making sure they win most of their games for their streams etc. While those like me who play to have fun and not stress won't have the same skill set or time to put into the game and will face teams that "seem" like professional tournament teams, hence all the crying on the forums. I have faced some good really strong teams that made my games a living nightmare but they were not a professional team.
Most of the playerbase of DbD I assume is of the latter group. Is the constant crying annoying at times yes, but nothing to get bent out of shape over it
You know, what's funny is streamers whos playing this game as their job DO match with those SWF sweat squad plenty of times and they DO lose to them, yet those kind of people ignore this fact.
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Nothing unexpected, it was always clear even before release she will be extremely underwhelming, she is mix of 3 or 4 other killers which then divided by 8.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842099#Comment_2842099
Agreed. TV's should have a shorter cooldown, ~60 seconds or so after teleporting and a 70-80 second cooldown when a Survivor shuts a TV off.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842125#Comment_2842125
She's probably the best stealth Killer we have right now. All stealth Killers got hit by CoH hard, but she has an instant teleport, which means she could teleport to a Boon Totem and teleport back in matter of seconds.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842159#Comment_2842159
I won't disagree with you on her feeling lacking compared to Bird Mommy, especially in the anti-loop department, nor will I disagree that her being an M1 Killer doesn't hurt her when above a certain MMR, as I've "presumably" (still don't know how high my MMR is) played against high MMR Survivors that knew both how to loop and how to use CoH effectively, and still won with a combination of Hit N Run usage, aswell as tunneling and camping when it deemed useful.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842161#Comment_2842161
As explained in the post, a tight 3-Gen usually has more than 1 TV nearby. There's a 70% there'll be 2 TV's or more in that one area, meaning the 100 second cooldown of 1 TV probably won't hurt much, tho I still want a reduction in said cooldown.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842169#Comment_2842169
I wouldn’t say every Killer has that strong of a 3-Gen. Sadako's Condemnation punishes Survivors who try and stay near the 3-Gen, forcing them to leave into an unfavorable position, lest they want to get mori'd.
Are there any Killers that have a disadvantage when losing? The meta Killers, Nurse and Blight, don't have anything that helps them when they're losing, they have either an amazing chase or amazing anti-loop or both. The help when at a disadvantage comes from Perks or strats such as tunneling and camping
Most anti-loop abilities are something that helps when "losing" as it counters windows/palettes which is super advantageous for survivors, mobility also helps keeping map pressure while there is 4 survivors left.
Sadako, doesn't really have one, 100 seconds cooldown is too long as a mobility and survivors can actually disable every tvs if they really want to.