fulltonon
fulltonon
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@SuperCop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693966#Comment_3693966
I don't think that's something that can actually be removed, cause you could struggle to try to get team out of bad situation with 4% and you could actually miss skill checks on accident, too, plus they get smaller, harder to hit. 2nd stage is supposed to be dangerous.
Also I wouldn't want people to be *forced* to keep playing. I think it's better to incentivize, that way staying is worth it.
Heres a thing: no one cares if you escape with 4%, even if it can happen in like once in 5 matches.
So just give them free chance of escape, maybe nerf it so you can only do it twice or even once, but still free.
And we don't need skill check on second stage, it's not interactive or fun or anything, just scrap it altogether.
People should absolutely be forced to keep playing, because they CHOOSE to join the game at THEIR OWN WILL, when pressing "READY" you are literally READY FOR PLAYING AN ENTIRE GAME, and that's the reason why you will be penalized for Disconnecting too.
On top of this: all the balance problem (even though it's extremely unlikely to happen) can be fixed by buff/nerf of other things, the hook suicide is extremely illogical, unhealthy and stupid mechanics that somehow NEVER got fixed in this game, so even if it needs fair amount of balancing effort it is still worth it.
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@Violence said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694054#Comment_3694054
But she is not meant to have anti loop, you can get perks for that if anything. I would say that I don't agree with saying that she is one of the easiest for intermediate survivors, otherwise her kill rate wouldn't be as high as it is. She is one of the best now at breaking pallets and controlling the map, which is really good against all skill levels. At the end of the day, M1 killers will struggle against good survivors. Period.
Uh, as long as you manually breaks pallet it's nothing more than ordinary, and her map control isn't even reliable thanks to tvs being completely on control of survivors.
She is pretty much a stealth killer with no power (you know all other stealth killers has slowdown, one hit, speed boost and all that), who can SOMETIME teleport when their opponent is generous.
Using kill rate as a metrics for something is honestly weird, because none of those makes sense ever.
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@Violence said:
VS bad survivors you are still going to steam roll every lobby even though alot of the changes were geared towards these lobbies. VS good survivors you LITERALLY do not have a power anymore and there is nothing you can do to get that power no matter how good you are as a Sadako.
I have played mainly Sadako as killer and there are intermediate survivors as well. You have to take into account how the developers want her to be balanced, and since she has one of the better kill rates across all MMRs, you can't just simply buff her. The very fact that she has a built-in mori AND a complicated power means she will over perform at lower mmr and intermediate (if you indeed play it like a sweat) level of play.
Do you balance her around lower/intermediate players or high mmr/competitive players ? It's normal to struggle against good SWFs and higher mmr players since you are a M1 killer, and it's normal to steam roll lower level players because of her mori and complicated power. It's the nature of her design and the learning curve of the game.
However, I do find myself agreeing with the fact that she needs something in order to combat good players that play around her power well, thus rendering her into a wandering stealth-ish M1 killer, but you also have to address the fact that she over performs at mid/low levels. Adding condemn when picking up a tape and/or lowering her TVs cooldown (making it so you can teleport more often) will mean that good players won't be able to completely deny her power which is a problem indeed. At the same time, you need to keep the experience fun and interactive for lower skilled survivors. Survivors need to understand that picking up tapes is good for them since it denies her power. I think this one needs to trigger our monkey brain in order to work, like a sound effect (tv static or stronger lullaby) when you are within a powered tv that gets removed when you pick up a tape, you could give her blindness base kit when within powered tvs, UI improvements to make it clearer that you need to get a tape. Something that says "powered tvs = bad and picking tapes = good".
Sadako is one of easiest when it comes to Intermediate survivors, because it's as simple as: pick tape, do gen, avoid tvs.
She doesn't even have any real antiloop, I'd say even trapper is more problematic for them.
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The easiest and most logical fix is to just removing hook suicide, those people just don't bother with anything beside their own feelings.
Giving more BP doesn't really make them stay.
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You can always just do box and force her to slug/hook.
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More like improve killer lethality so survivors don't even bother to try doing so unless absolute necessary, and also fix extremely stupid hook spawn that just makes hooking impossible EVEN WITHOUT BODYBLOCKS.
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@opxtreme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692886#Comment_3692886
R u saying that slugging is difficult to do? (Its not)
No, I'm stating getting hit by chainsaw is difficult for not low MMR survivors.
@opxtreme said:
Ik how to avoid curves and i would expect my teammates to as well seeing as I get killers that are good but never good randoms, but thats off topic. The problem is his speed, he can catch you before reaching a fixed object or loop, which will let him hit you with an insta down, FOR FREE without even needing to know how to curve. Yes, billys who aren't even good do this, i looped a billy doing this on rancid for a whole minute and a half on a TL and haybales, it really isn't hard to do and theres not much I can do to hold them off for long.
I guess maybe a more fair change would be to allow insta downs only after a cooldown of sorts, high speed insta downs readily available always is not balanced, though that still wouldn't fix his high speeds for returning to previously downed survivors
Then just get hit by lunge and stop running.
You can always stay on a tile indefinitely and billy can't utilize instadown at all.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692977#Comment_3692977
He is very biased, one of the most biased players. There are Killer Mains who are less biased than him who always hides it with "I play both sides".
And the current Endgame is not unhealthy. One Survivor getting a pity escape via Hatch is not unhealthy. Killers can make it unhealthy by slugging endlessly for a 4K, but this is on the player, not the system itself.
Because as Killer, you dont NEED a 4K most of the time. If you finish the game with Gens still up and a 3K, it does not matter if the last Survivor gets lucky and finds the Hatch, you won as Killer. Let alone that the Survivor most likely has to get lucky to find Hatch first, because they a) move slower and b) have to hide while the Killer finding it first is more unlikely.
Example from yesterday:
Playing against a Spirit, 2 Gens to go, second Survivor dead. The only Survivors alive are SWF-Mate (0 Hooks) and another player (1 Hook). Spirit downs me, so I will not struggle or anything. But, she does not hook me. Instead, she lets me on the ground for almost 4 minutes to search for the other Survivor. Then (I have AFK-Crows at this point) she picks me up and plans on walking around with me (she had Agitation) to find the last Survivor. When I started wiggling she let me escape and ignores me for a minute or so, but since I am doing a Gen, she downs me eventually. I kobe (classic) while trying to suicide and then she lets me repair a Gen for 1 minute again before finally hooking me.
In the end she finds the Hatch first and gets the other Survivor while they are opening a Gate. So tell me, if she would have not done all of this, would the Endgame be unhealthy? No. Would it be unhealthy if the other Survivor escaped via Hatch and it is "only" a 3K with 2 Gens left? No.
But she MADE it unhealthy by keeping me slugged the whole time AND trying to prolong it even more by not letting me Bleedout. It is the Killers action which make Endgame unhealthy, this fixating on having a 4K instead of just accepting a Win with a Hatch escape (which it clearly is).
So yeah, Killers are the problem Endgame can become unhealthy, not the system itself.
you don't need hatch escape.
Just accept the loss and go next, I suppose?
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@SolidRazo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692178#Comment_3692178
maybe so but I personally never played against something like that or if I have I probably haven’t really noticed cause I just take the chases. If their turning off all the tv’s then their just casually getting stacks if I catch them with a tape then I just chase them till their down if they just run to a tv to put it in then that’s a free hook state for me but it’s kinda ridiculous that all 4 survivors will go to all the tvs to turn them off that sounds unrealistic and a perfectly bad scenario for the Onryo player that will rarely happen
it’s not perfect per say and I definitely feel survivors should be more punished for holding a tape in some way but as it is for me it’s not that bad from my experience
You just need to turn off tv near gens, no need to "turn off all tv" because any tvs that is farther than 16m is might as well not exist.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692816#Comment_3692816
Intended - not sure why it matters, the game is filled with things that weren't intended. The whole concept of games is figuring out what you can do with the resources you have.
Abuse - Exploiting bugs to become unreachable or to stick another player in a position they could not escape was abuse. Heal teach is the survivors using a resource they've managed to have access to at the end of the game (health states) to aid another survivor in escaping. Same thing with body blocking or if there was a pallet still usable near the exit gate.
Because everything not intended is a bug.
Simple as that, there is no such things as "unintended feature", that's an exploit.
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Being "too strong" in anti loop really is nothing, unless it's nurse.
You won't win the game by winning chase, surprising but truth.
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what's the problem with killers getting adept or survivor not getting hatches through extremely unsportsmanlike way which is literally against rules lmao.
Not to mention the fact they actually are pretty efficient thanks to wallhack and pretty determined for reparing.
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Honestly, current endgame is mostly fine as is.
If killer is determined enough, they can have 4 minutes to practically infinite seconds of time to search last one, otherwise survivors get the four chances of escape for absolutely free.
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Not any I know of, and shouldn't be nerfed at all.
Getting sawed four times is 100% survivor's fault, his chainsaw isn't something you'll get hit that often.
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What you want is not "anti tunneling measure", but rather complete removal of it.
And I agree, why not? I'm tired of all the days of tunneling and tunneling, it's boring but still most efficient anyway so I WILL do it regardless.
When it is made literally impossible, game will be FORCED to buff killers by ridiculous amount, and I DO want it really.
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@FunkyMonk said:
Just give us a button to voluntarily bleed out after like 30 seconds.
No it won't be a problem, anyone who suicides for petty reasons would've just done it on hook.
Actually, hook suicide IS a problem, so "this is fine because anyone can freely suicide anyway" is worst kind of reasoning.
We should fix that problem, and NOT add more of it.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692817#Comment_3692817
Look how long it took us to get an FOV slider, despite it literally being an accessibility issue.
Imagine trying to play this game if you were entirely deaf. Personally i have hearing issues myself and its why i can't play billy, because i end up with really bad tinnitus afterwards.
And surprisingly we literally got no problem in adding FoV slider, not even nurse, lmao.
I'm pretty sure same would happen for volume slider tbh, even just disabling chase music would NOT give any problematic advantage over people.
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To be fair, killer never really had that much of advantages too as it was too location specific and they didn't even had any time to do it.
Just give maximum BP bonus from the beginning I guess? we don't need that mechanics.
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It's unbelievably stupid we still don't have a way to manually manage sounds of each things, are they really want to make players deaf?
Forced sound balance in gaming is literally worst thing we got, and YET we can still gain unintended advantage by equializer and "good headphone", it's seriously stupid and game should just allow players to balance everything by themselves.
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@crogers271 said:
The key word in Mandy's post is 'bug'.
With Blight - his rushes should be causing collision, but they aren't, that's a bug.
Heal tech - when survivors heal a downed survivor, the down survivor cannot be picked up. That is intended. How survivors might use this perhaps was not expected, but that's a different thing.
Crouch tech to change the collision is probably closer to a bug, not sure what BHVR's thoughts on that. CJ Tech can be seen as an exploit, but is probably rare enough that the fix of adding an additional button would be seen as more harm than good.
It's not different, if developer didn't intended to make survivors unhookable by healing and survivors abuse it, it's an exploit.
Healing is a "healing" and not "guaranteed escape action" after all.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692318#Comment_3692318
Slugging for 4K is incredibly boring the strat where you slug second last and search whole map to find the last one. Match drags forever and forever and usually killers who do it let the second last one wiggle out ones they about to bleed out and try to get them to show where the last one is. I liked the new gamemode where that thing didn't exist.
When killer sees the other survivor aftet downing other and goes aftet them that's not slugging for 4K. There the other survivor will have to likely be less than minute on the ground unless he hides which is as annoying as slugging for 4K as then killer has to spend 4 minutes finding them.
It's as boring as three stage comeback for survivors, remove slug with hatches and guarantee 4k at that point or do not touch both, choose one.
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Actually really yes, you can't count how many killers lost hit by palletstunned.
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@Skitten56 said:
Big difference in techs that use established game mechanics that are functioning properly to achieve an outcome, compared to techs that use exploits/mechanics that BHVR has said are bugs to achieve an outcome.
Blight's hug tech is simply not comparable to stuff like the CJ tech.
Utilizing an mechanics for unintended means is an exploit.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The techs mentioned have nowhere near an impact compared to Hug-tech. With heal tech, one Survivor might go out. With crouch tech, rarely a hit will not connect (really, I never had a problem with crouch tech and I play a lot of Billy). And if you fall for a CJ-tech as Killer, sorry, you deserve it and should go back to newbie-MMR.
Meanwhile Blights hug-tech had way more impact and made the game against Blight way harder for the Survivors, not compareable to one Survivor getting away or similar things.
Impact shouldn't matter at all.
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@tonydim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692454#Comment_3692454
The issue is that right now he is in an "unfun" position due to his slow-down bottles, while also weak due to non-existent map mobility and pressure. I'm really sorry if I'm passing off as aggressive here, really, but it feels like you are trying to slippery slope my argument. I apologise if mistaken.
And that's exactly what I'm trying to solve here. You're making him stronger in the sense that he will still be good at chases, but he will have map pressure. Still no map mobility but atleast map pressure in the sense that you can keep far-away survivors somewhat occupied with other matters. At the same time, he will be enjoyable on the survivor's side due to the reward from finding Afterpiece Antidotes, and the now gone frustrating slow-down effect.
And if clown is equally stronger at chase, "unfun" stays same.
No, slowdown isn't the cause despite your belief, survivors do not like it when they get downed fast by uber fast killers.
At this point just add slowdown tools on top of current basekit.
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@Guroneko said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692443#Comment_3692443
This thread isn't about me, it's about my question. Buuuuut, if you'd like tickle my narcissism, then my DMs are open to you as well.
I never claimed to be some saint that never succumbs to toxicity. I'm a red-blooded human being that enjoys complaining too, whether it's post-game or on a forum. We all make mistakes and say things we regret— I'd be remiss to try and deny that.
As for your latter accusation, I never said anywhere (as far as I recall) that I believe "killer SHOULD give free escape for survivors, by intentionally leaving borrowed time that is bleedout timer." The only thing Killer players should regularly strive to do is have fun and remain acutely aware that unless the Killer AFKs, plays friendly with survivors to farm BP or otherwise gives away the game to the survivors, there will come a point in which the Killer retains MUCH more control over progressing the game state than (2, in my case) Survivors do.
I wanted my fair 1v1 hatch race after Quentin got hooked. That's the garden-variety goal of playing killer, is it not? To tally up hooks, kills, and win chases. Not engineer situations in which you artificially delay the game for someone or remove any chance a survivor has of surviving the Trial by abusing the presence (or lack thereof) of another human player. That's typically a prerogative the Killer player takes upon themselves to compensate for some other shortcoming (or to generate entertaining Youtube/Twitch content, admittedly).
You know, hatch race is already EXTREMELY unfair for killers, because killer: manage to kill 3 survivors (which is just hard as is), find the hatch(which is pretty much 50/50 and pure RNG, on top of the hatch camping which is real), and THEN they have to find gate so they can catch survivors, ultimately making it like 80/20, this is not even 50/50, survivors even can be healthy so making it impossible for killers to catch UNLESS hatch is closed.
No wonder killer try to actually have agency in that situation, also you can just always fix up generator or hide for 4 minutes too, it's not like those are any harder when you know what choice killers have.
And "3k isn't needed" is weird point too, BP rewards 4k, emblem rewards 4k, achievement rewards 4k, game is literally asking for 4k and bleedout is a tool for it.
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@tonydim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692450#Comment_3692450
4% is just my placeholder. Do not see it as permanent. It can be changed to something else, and in addition to that base Hindered status effect you can still use your purples to slightly slow them down even further. But Afterpiece Tonic does not become fully useless, as it now builds up Survivor's Corrosion over time.
And if we gonna change everything anyway, that'll just make him as strong now or even better, making him just as "unfun" as you say.
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Luckily us vs them is somehow perfectly allowed in this place, so they won't get banned or anything.
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@tonydim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692448#Comment_3692448
They will have a permanent hindered status effect upon reaching full Corrosion (let's say 4%, which is lower than Wesker's full infection), plus slow-down effect which is half of what it currently is. In addition, your Invigoration bottles grant you, let's say, 15% of Haste instead of the current 10%. Paired with add-ons or other perks, it can turn even higher which is why I don't want it to be base 20% else it would become ridiculous.
You will still be able to perform double bottle combos. The difference is you're nerfing the purple bottle in favour of the yellow bottle.
On the other hand, the Corrosion helps you maintain some pressure on that survivor plus whoever is in full Corrosion status, who will seek bottles around the map. The Survivor is rewarded for finding an Afterpiece Antidote with a full Corrosion heal and buffed speeds in repairing and healing.
What counts as an "unneded chore" to you? Many killers have the mechanic of pushing survivors to find crates/items around the map to remove a status effect: Cenobite, Freddy, Wesker, Nemesis, Singularity… the list goes on.
All you're doing for Clown is the same thing, but at the same time rewarding them for doing so.
On the other hand, Clown compensates for high speed and a less frustrating slow-down.
4% is pretty much nonexistent compared to 15 or 19%.
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@tonydim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692442#Comment_3692442
I struggle to understand what you mean with "clown is a lot weaker". Destroying pallets or playing around them is more reliable now that you're speeding up his process with Invigoration, is it not?
It is not true that all Killer powers are frustrating:
- against a Blight, you're trying to dodge his speedy lounges by turning around objects. You're not being forced to drop a pallet unless you make a miscalculation or the Blight player has outplayed you with a smart bump.
- against a Hillbilly, pretty much the same thing. If you're downed, it's because you've made a miscalculation or because Billy has done a sick turn.
- against an Oni, you're playing around quick turns to stop his rush. If you're downed, you've made a miscalculation or the Oni has simply got you pinned or caught up to you eventually around a curve.
Why do I think Clown's power is frustrating? The only counterplay is to drop a pallet, and either play around that pallet which always ensures the Clown another hit, all you're doing is trying to waste his time until your inevitable downfall, or holding W to the next loop whilst catching bottles on your back, getting a constant ping-pong between an extremely slow movement speed and your base movement speed.
Applying a permanent but severely reduced Hindered effect until Corrosion is full will still allow the survivor to play around the same pallet or run away with less frustration. The Clown can make up for it with buffed Invigoration: he is faster and can also break the pallet faster. The survivor however is healed from Corrosion upon entering his yellow gas, being hooked or finding an Afterpiece Antidote in a crate somewhere.
What is going to make it more fun? Having a full Corrosion status effect will actively push players to seek Afterpiece Antidotes around the map. The can use them to heal up and gain temporary repair/healing bonuses, therefore also adding a strategic counterplay on the Survivor's side.
With weaker slow, it takes like 2x or even 3x to catch up with survivors, the difference between those are ridiculous.
On top of that, you can't "just hit and make them slow" too, farther reducing the effectiveness of clown.
So ultimately you are just removing his chase power, and adding unneeded chore to survivors, basically making him unfun for both.
Action speed is useless in chase.
Also clown counter play isn't dropping pallet, it's stunning him.
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@Guroneko said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692316#Comment_3692316
tl;dr: I agree to an extent because nothing involving social contracts is ever simply binary/black & white.
You're right! I 4slug too (on Skully, my "main" and a very unpopular pick with Survivor enthusiasts) against aggressively altruistic/rescue-centric players. It's very potent when applied correctly/efficiently. In this case however, when applied (by what looked to be an amateurish and/or overly emotional killer player) against the 2 remaining survivors while the other 2 have already been dead for over two minutes (and spectating the game to drop their two cents in post-game chat), said player is treading "overkill" territory.
Imo, the toxic one is the killer >player< for (potentially) believing it's perfectly fine for them to waste 4 minutes of a solo queue player's time to simply deny me the hatch while Quentin could've already been enjoying another more entertaining Trial.
Chances are, his next killer is also a bit more aware of the implied responsibility/social agreement to not hold (the last) 2 players hostage just because said killer would rather secure 4 kills instead of walking to Quentin, pressing Space, holding W until they reach a hook and pressing Space again to (potentially, based upon their own skill and Hatch spawn luck) settle for a 3k.
I don't get how you aren't any less toxic by believing killer SHOULD give free escape for survivors, by intentionally leaving borrowed time that is bleedout timer.
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@tonydim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692436#Comment_3692436
Unfortunately, it is also what makes him an unfun killer on the Survivor side. I don't mean that it's bad design on the developers' side, but rather engaging and fun mechanics should be favored over things players find frustrating.
I considered applying the changes that I proposed while keeping his full slow-down effects, with no decrease. But that would go against what I proposed in the title: more reliable, less frustrating. Keeping his slow-down effect with the changes I proposed would just make him more reliable. My Corruption mechanic proposal exists solely to remove the unfun slowing down mechanic during chases, instead swapping it for a permanent slow, although MUCH more diminished.
I wouldn't exactly say he would become useless. Survivors would still be prone to pre-dropping, either leaving the Clown with the choice to immediately kick the pallet with the Invigoration bonus (faster kicking), or playing around the pallet with a reduced slowdown, but a faster Invigoration. It makes up for it, all you're doing is just making it less frustrating on the Survivor side.
You have no time to break pallet with clown, who is now lot weaker.
So yeah he will be useless, and we really have no point in nerfing things "because frustrating", like literally everything of killer powers are frustrating, if we gonna nerf all that we'll just have powerless M1 killer.
Even with your change, survivors will still be "frustrated" thanks to additional run objectives and permanent hindered, if anything it'd annoy survivors EVEN MORE than what we have now.
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I can't count how many times survivors managed to let downed survivor on gate out by doing "healtech", not that I care of but still.
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With reduced slow effect, his anti loop power will be killed and he would be pretty much useless killer.
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692116#Comment_3692116
It is the hindered that really ruins the killer experience of Wesker for me when I play Survivor (that and his cheesy voice lines, but that is a different topic) the debuff on its own is fine, the fact it continues to build during chase is the problem given his power and the fact he has a lunge that can cover half of Texas in a single swing.
You make very little ground against an intermediate Wesker player, and heaven help you if it's a competent Wesker or a Wesker with ping.It's really not a problem because by the time you lack up hindered you already won the chase, and should be downed.
Like wesker can just lack up BL 3 during that period, twice.
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She is pretty much worst stealth killer (beside freddy I guess?) with nonexistent power that can just be disabled by survivors for free.
So yeah, calling her "fine" would be overestimation.
No antiloop, No teleport against meaningful location, and no condemn thanks to not having tv near survivors, she really have nothing, at all.
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I definitely do not wish to deal with boons, if anything they can be nerfed.
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@Callahan9116 said:
I think the people who get bled out more are the ones who annoy the killer. I've seen lots of ds and flashlighters get bled out, I think its revenge.
Honestly, the fact they just "bleed out" is already an annoyance too.
Not like they've done anything bad or good, sometime it's just impossible to find them, like, they can always just go afk and let killers know the location, but no, somehow they must wander around for absolutely no reason and waste four minutes of killers, even when hatch is closed.
Each players with each own objective I guess?
@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691800#Comment_3691800
The idea on paper was solid, it was to prevent killers from slugging people for 4 minutes. However, in execution, this only encouraged killers to tunnel and slug for the 4K because it means if they were playing someone like say Oni, Blight or Nurse who could down survivors quickly would essentially end the game in under or just over 10 minutes. Because once the last survivor was down, the game would just cut to a finisher mori.
The idea to counter this was basekit unbreakable for survivors, which is an alright idea, however, this continued the killer down loop with people getting up only to be downed again
Winning in 14minutes or 10 minutes is irrelevant, with or without finisher mori lethality of oni/blight/nurse doesn't change, at all.
Just think about it, currently, once everyone is downed, there is no come back so it's just a matter of finding dead body, or more like, matter of "not wasting survivor time by actually finishing the game faster".
With finisher mori, there is no comeback too, absolutely no difference, it's just that "survivors don't have to waste time staying on ground 4 minutes", just as OP or literally any survivor mains want.
But no, BHVR lost their sanity and somehow they must "counter" QOL change for both survivors and killers, there was literally NO DIFFERENCE in power level of killers with or without finisher mori, but somehow they thought survivors deserve BASEKIT UNBREAKABLE.
I seriously don't get how those people or even developer got the idea of "encouraging slugging" when you have absolutely no advantage in trying to slug.
Finisher mori was just beneficial for both survivors and killers, but thanks to tying it together with absolutely unwanted basekit buffs for survivors we lost the chance to actually have very nice QoL change, I wish both developers and players were lot more reasonable when it comes to this.
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@WeirdHexButOk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692246#Comment_3692246
Basekit yellow bottles provide 10% haste. That would make the Clown 26.5% faster than survivors, not 50%. However, by using the build described in my original post, you can become almost 40% faster than survivors with the Clown.
This is why I think reworking the clown and the cenobite's powers into different special attacks might be a balanced nerf to such a speed build. Although, this is probably too much to ask for.
The main idea here is that, pwyf and/or killer powers should be buffed/reworked to favor m1 killers who also lack speed. Admittedly, my solution might not be the best but I'm open to ideas.
Clown is meant to be used with haste AND slow, not just one.
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Honestly game has lot more balance problem than bug problem.
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3 genning just doesn't exist in this day.
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I think your MMR is on catastrophically low to the point you don't match with any sane games.
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No more hatches, it's all 4k or all escape, very nice.
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Honestly breach with cigar box is still more impactful.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692250#Comment_3692250
The issue isn't specifically 3 genning, it's that 3 genning is boring.
And it's already fixed, so what.
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Who even needs PWYF when clown can like 50% faster than survivors BASEKIT?
It doesn't matter if power not loses PWYF stack, ultimately you have to hit twice to get a down, and every killer except one shotters are pretty much bad user of PWYF.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691800#Comment_3691800
The old finisher Mori system was scrapped, because a bunch of survivors brought stuff like Flip flop, breakdown (or power struggle), unbreakable, tenacity… and were purposely placing themselves in situations where they couldn’t be hooked.
The main point is that when survivors got anti-slugging, they purposely weaponized it.
Having anti-slugging and finisher mori tied together was the most stupidest decision ever imo, like god killer gains literally no advantages with finisher mori beside just faster game ends, why devs thought survivor needs something at all?
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No one uses 5 sec useless haste on huntress, they got better addons to use.
Just try using those by yourself before getting mad like that.
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@SimpleSage said:
Wasn't the old finisher mori system scrapped because it actually caused slugging to become meta? People realized it was way easier to win if you just slugged everyone (because of the instant sacrifice) vs playing normally and hooking everyone.
As for an anti-slug mechanic, I would absolutely be down for the ability to speed up the bleed out process. Scott Jund had a decent idea to give survivors tenacity crawl speeds at the cost of doubling the bleed out rate. Heck even if its like the 4% unhook but we can attempt to pick ourselves up.
As someone who had 3 matches this week where it was a 4 man bleed out because that's how the killers came into the match wanting to play, I will take anything that just lets me go next.
That's stupid logic because difficulty to slug them all isn't any different with or without finisher mori, that IS the "plain nonsense" and "most illogical reasoning ever".
Whether it takes 4 more minutes or 0 minutes is irrelevant, win is a win still, but people seriously complained like "AAAAA WHY BUFF SLUGGING AAAAAA" without actually thinking the difference between having finisher mori and not.
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At least suiciding just for hatches shouldn't even be a thing for hooks, that IS stupid.