fulltonon
fulltonon
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@Yharwick said:
So a couple things one I think clown is a pretty underrated killer and as far as m1 killers go he's probably one of the best ones so presenting him as weak I think isn't quite right.
Next regardless of how strong Clown is in relation to Huntress which sure Huntress is much stronger it doesn't change the fact that the ammo add-ons needed to go cuz it took away any penalty for the Clown missing bottles. Regardless of strength a survivor dodging 5 bottles but still going down cuz the clown still has 3 more takes away a lot of skill expression on both sides. Not to mention if you actually need that many bottles on clown that's very concerning.
Last are the add-ons are better than they look. So something a lot of people misunderstand about haste on killer is 10% haste for example does not make a 115% speed killer 125% speed. It's 10% of 115% which is 11.5 making the killer 126.5% speed. Now applying then to the clown the yellow bottles give you 10% haste if we add the 2% from the yellow soda bottle that's 12% making it 128.8% movement speed giving you an overall 2.3% speed increase over basekit. Purple Gin bottle is 129.95% meaning you're practically 130% leading to a roughly 3.5% speed increase and both add-ons together is 132.25% leading to a 5.75% increase.
Basically what this means is in my mind is they're only really worth running together as together as they're letting you gain an extra 0.25M/s in chase which is added to your base power adding something like 0.415M/s in chase idk I'm too tired to math rn so I'm estimating. But regardless for add-ons that's pretty impactful especially when you can consider that's on top of also being able to slow survivors.
Having good anti loop hardly makes a killer A or even B tier, so C or D tier isn't "underrated".
The fact he is limited by bottle count and ultimately 50/50 when it comes to pallet, is already bad enough too.
I don't really know which is stronger though, the bottles or the haste.
We already have better slow addon too anyway, so kinda redundant if we think about it.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691768#Comment_3691768
And when exactly 4 survivors are going to do 4 separate gens? What is killer doing in this time?
Realistically one gen at a time is being done by survivors, one survivor is hooked, one is chased by the killer and one survivor have to go for unhook.
"going for unhook" shouldn't take as long as chase, so effectively three survivors should work on gen most of time.
If killer can constantly pressure survivor to the point there can only be one survivor on a gen all the time, he will win whether pop or anything.
And since killer has regression perks, it's not like they are zoom zoom super vaulting coup-de-last 9001 or something, it shouldn't really be that hard to chase enough time.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691761#Comment_3691761
Are you even playing dbd as survivor with randoms? I can't count how many times I even told my SWF that gen in shack has 80% and killer starts to chase me, when someone arrives to shack to """finish""" the gen, it already have like ~30%.
Yes, it is due to basekit regression, but pop already took large amount of progress.
And no, "boo hoo it is because of weak killers!!", I only see constant Nurse, Blight, Wesker or Skull Merchant, killers that don't need 4 gen perks to pressurize survivors.
That's nowhere near "effectively zero" though.
I just don't get your point, there is four survivors and having one gen regress to 30% is hardly a problem.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691752#Comment_3691752
You don't have maximum efficiency every time but gens start regressing further and tapping gens is no more.
So realistically killer can use pop and start chase nearby survivor while gen effectively regresses to 0.
Uh in that case it's literally infinite % regression and you don't even need pop at all, you are seriously giving too little credit for survivors.
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@menacing_goose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691693#Comment_3691693
you get -25% from pain res and -30% from pop add them up and that’s -55% total until all pain res tokens are used but I guess putting that together is too much work 😃
Are you expecting to utilize maximum efficiency of pop all the time? that's legit ridiculous.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691726#Comment_3691726
I don't think it is comparable in remotely the same degree. First off, Bleeding Out takes 4 minutes, and if you open the gate yourself as Killer it takes 2 minutes max (or if you want to annoy yourself you can make it take double time, but that is self-imposed). Hypothetically you could run into someone who purposely brought Plot Twist+No Mither+Tenacity to troll by hiding in endgame, but then you had a No Mither enemy during the entire match, so I think it evens out.
Secondly, Bleedouts have no (meaningful) agency. A Killer can force people out for t-bagging at gates, or even get a hook or Kill out of it. A slugged Survivor can't do anything other than prep a 95 for a pickup, or crawl under a pallet. If the Killer is purposely bleeding people out though, there is nothing they can do until they add a surrender feature like opening the gate for Killer.
Third, too many Killers play like a $5 subway card is on the line, slugging for the 4k, often when they have 0 idea or way of finding out where the remaining Surv is. For anyone wanting to see the Killer's perks/Add-ons/Offering/their friend exit the match (whether they played together in that match or not), they also have to wait through this, even if they died first. This is something that was implemented to prevent SWFs from snitching perks, but then it has 0 reason to exist in soloq, and I would even argue if a Killer can't win a 3v1 with snitched perks they don't have enough skill to win regardless (so it wouldn't affect the outcome). So a Killer can hold a up to a maximum normal 4 people hostage in spirit (Dead Survs A/B who want to see the perks, Slugged Surv C, and Hiding Surv D).
Finally even if its rare, its the prolonged suffering that makes it so annoying to deal with and forces complains to right this wrong. If a Sweaty Clock SWF rushes a win, they leave the match in ~3 minutes. The Killer can still engage that entire time. The slugged Surv (and waiting lobby Survs [for their casual SWF teammates or perks to be revealed]) has the minimum 4 minute timer, but the Killer could pick up and drop them in a hatch fight and force them to run around or AFK for even longer.
So in summary- Surrender exists for Killer and not Survivor
- Bleedouts deny the ability to do anything (meaningful)
- The frequency of slug for 4k is far too high, and may hold 2-4 Players hostage (in spirit) at any time.
- The 4 minutes can be artificially extended by picking up and dropping Survs, so you can't simply AFK if the Killer does this to you. (While the Killer can AFK in endgame collapse.)
So bleeding out is no worse?
"Bleeding out for 4k" is perfectly legit no matter how you think, killer is still trying to get objective and there is even an achievement called adapt that encourage you to do such.
Only "unneeded" bleeding out is the situation where everyone is downed but killer just refuses to hook, which just doesn't happen in 99% of matches (unless you play in an extremely toxic way to the point killer want you to suffer, I guess?).
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And so they introduced finisher mori, the very thing that ACTUALLY stops ONE and ONLY situation where "unneeded" slugging happen.
But for some reason people complained like madmen, as if they have no tomorrow, despite that system not having any, literally ANY logical reason to remove.
Well I could be convinced to believe BHVR just couldn't make it look any better so they scrapped it, but if they seriously backed it because of "feedback" that was plain nonsense, it'd be most illogical decision ever.
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If we gonna SERIOUSLY believe regression is unhealthy for the game, just remove it altogether, we don't need to live in regression meta when it doesn't exists.
If not, just keep them strong and stop tampering without any real reason, they are fine, they are healthy, they are fair as is, no need to make weird nerfs at all.
@Hyuu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666874#Comment_3666874
Hey did you know that DS and OTR, two mid perks (Unlike Pain res and Pop's META perks) get disabled when the gens are done?
Killers always love playing the victims when their boring and oppressive meta is subjected to potential changes. Even adrenaline, a totally fair and balanced perk is going to get nerfed because killers just couldn't get gud.Huh, if you believe killers can do anything at end game, you should learn to coordinate better.
If more than 3 survivors are alive and all is healthy it's pretty much impossible for killers to secure a kill, UNLESS they make extremely stupid mistake.
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Unintentional body blocking is a thing, they could stop having hitbox though.
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And it would be even more cooler if we could see how many chase has happened within a match and how long each lasted.
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@goodfriday said:
Add franklins on this too it and lightborn should be given a token treatment like distortion gets. Also killers get mad when survivors last min switch but hey who wants to be wasting their items for 0 value cause of lightborn/franklins. Still find it stupid killers can see survivor items.
I also want to ask a serious question about the ones who say they get Epilepsy from flashlights. Idk about dbd but any game I play usually warn if you have certain illness or so to avoid playing the game so why play then? What about clowns gas and dredges darkness, are those not a problem too?
Did you know those things actually got changed? clown change has been quite new one, too.
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@jonifire said:
I really hope this perks gets changed, that blinding a killer takes twice as long. In the end it would have the same effect with a chance of a save. Most people would still miss the time window for blinds then. Immunity is just unfair.
Actually, lightborn is a least unfair perks of all, it doesn't really give killers any real advantage like regression faster attack speed aura reading and all that.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690934#Comment_3690934
New players are not new players forever, and they do not need every perk to be effective.
Doesn't matter, if new players stop being new players anyway, it shouldn't matter even if they are allowed to "have fun" in whatever things just like long term players.
Whether they need it or not is also irrelevant, the amount of perks are directly equivalent to fun we can have in this game, it's not like having less perks help them learn anything anyway.
On top of all this, it's not like giving them 3x bp every matches suddenly removes grind, they still has to play hundreds, if not thousands of matches just to get perks.
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Probably because this map is not a most problematic one.
It's not exactly balanced but not ridiculous like some other maps either.
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@Choaron said:
It's not slow, you just got too used to the event gains. Events are meant to be eventful y'know.
Except we have no reason to have so much of difference between two.
If we gonna fix BP problem by just slapping "heres an event where you get 10x bps", why not ACTUALLY improve it, rather than doing some ridiculous things with limited time.
It has happened once, for sure. doesn't mean that is enough.
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It's funny how they don't utilize killswitch when game is 100% "unplayable" when you can't hook at all.
No, bleedout isn't answer for anything at all.
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@Raconteurminator said:
For some reason, I disproportionally enjoy points-based skill allocation in games. Do I think it could work here? I mean, quite probably, but it would certainly require a lot of groundwork to get it to a workable state, definitely more than Behaviour would be willing to commit. It would add more variety to builds and encourage people to try something other than slapping on the four best perks available and calling it a day. It would also add a new twist to buffs and nerfs, with perks deemed too powerful simply moving up in cost rather than being beaten and left in an alley somewhere, as is usually the case.
Actually, perks being too low on point can just get buff.
Everything should TRY to be 25point worth, but sometime it just doesn't happen so it should be fail-safe system that works automatically rather than BHVR manually adjusting everything.
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Certainly fun, but I'm pretty sure it'll kill matchmaking as a permanent mode.
Would be a modifiers I guess, or we could even make it just "happen" on normal matches randomly, I believe that's actually… exciting.
Like, I mean, game can have more and more weird modifier then CRAM ALL THAT ONTO ONE MATCHMAKING, we have bad maps, bad perks, meme builds for both survivor and killer, why not make it more "party game" ish by adding chaotic modifiers that just happens randomly?
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Honestly, at this point of game, game is nearly unplayable UNLESS you play on event (anniversary/blood whatever/all that), and on top of that addons are pretty much infinite for any decent players anyway too.
It doesn't makes sense why they are so inclined to make new player experience as bad as possible really, we should have MUCH better base BP gain and stop being so ridiculous with all that bonus (1800% maximum with bonus + cake + incentive?).
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I think lowest usage rate perks could be like 5, 10 15, 20 points worth depends on how low they are, so it's all dynamic.
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Ah yes, I can't wait to try rancor NOED deadlock lethal facecamping bubba again, the greatest times.
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@SuperCop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686515#Comment_3686515
It's "not good enough" but at least they nerfed something that wasn't even a big deal just because killers didn't like it, yet killers can still slug/bleed players out just because which is much worse and that's never been addressed.
Actually, they have tried to implement finisher mori because that WILL fix ACTUAL and ONLY meaningless bleeding, but look at all the backlash that caused by non-issue.
We had a chance to make the game better and somehow we complained about it, so game stayed bad as is, now what?
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Stay near windows/pallets or just stick with team of two.
Survivors already have enough counterplay against victor, we don't need any other.
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Better scrap the idea of invocation, it's kinda like boons but even worse.
Broken or useless, there is no in between.
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Alternatively, just ######### show your own MMR.
Like god, why not.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689696#Comment_3689696
One example for that was the removal of SkyBilly (Hillbilly's ability to traverse the map by using the chainsaw from an elevated position to get on top of obstacles, which redirect his momentum slightly upwards and allow him to traverse the map by "jumping" over obstacles rather than running around them). Instead of fixing what was actually broken to prevent him from clipping out of bounds, they completely changed his physics and added a variety of invisible walls that also limit Demogorgon's ability to increase the range of his shred, which is even hinted at in the loading screen. They even officially said they'd support SkyBilly as a tech a few years prior.
When they "fixed" SkyBilly it wasn't due to it having no counterplay, being too strong or whatever but simply because they no longer intended it to remain. Meaning, they removed it for the sake of removing an unintended feature.
Which is fine as long as they stay consistent with it. But I have an issue with it, if they don't because that's a double standard.
Actually, fixing that was stupid as is, so probably wasn't fine at all.
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I think you could add 5k bp bonus or something for giving props too, so at least everyone would want to participate in system unless they absolutely do not want to.
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@BugReporterOnly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689637#Comment_3689637
Not for me I had everyone body blocking for the wiggle. It needs a cooldown or some downside. I'm sick of being stuck in matches where people go out of their way to make killers miserable.
If everyone bodyblock, it is more or less deserved wiggle out.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Reward the side that played bad? No, it’s not a good idea.
Because?
Everyone want longer game with fairer tension between them and opponents, current dbd is pretty much like snowball where one side gets more and more power as they win until game is over.
why not make it opposite so length and feel of the matches will be normalized/have much less stomping games?
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Honestly it may be biggest help for soloq, just for feeling but still.
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This is more of a hook and map problem imo, sometime game is just abysmal at those.
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@Angelosso said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688834#Comment_3688834
In my lobbies as both the killer and survivor it often connects even though the killer may try to face the walls, the flashlights is a crucial item to have when it comes to saving teammates, especially randoms. Have any tips to how to save randoms if they can't loop and hooks are close to each other even thought I use offering to increase hook distance?
That's just bad killer, it doesn't work against any decent killers unless survivors can coordinate nicely, which doesn't happen on "bad randoms who can't loop" anyway.
There is no way to save them or even win the game when your teammate sucks, only actual "pressure" you can give to killers are by rushing gens, this is a game like that.
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I think DC players give 5000 bp to everyone or something?
Still agreed though.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689417#Comment_3689417
Old DH:
When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to avoid damage.
· Press the Active Ability button while running to trigger the Endurance Status Effect for 0.5 seconds.
New DH:
Dead Hard activates after being unhooked or unhooking yourself:
· When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to avoid damage.
· Press the Active Ability button while running to trigger the Endurance Status Effect for 0.5 seconds.
That's it. That's the only "activation requirement" that is different between the version that supposedly "didn't suck" and this one. Everything else you said can be applied to the older version, too.
So, I guess the takeaway here is that you think that the old version of DH sucks because you need to "not being exhausted, not being in Deep Wound, timing the perk, the killer having better ping than you, and you having good ping as well" to use it, right?…
To be fair, I can't count the time people claimed dead hard is a bad perk because "you'll be on ground exhausted".
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4.4 killers in general is just bad and will not deserve nerf.
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You shouldn't get hit for pretty much 99% of situations unless you play absolutely bad.
4.0 is slow enough to not lose distance, just utilize environment.
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@LatexT said:
I would not improve slinger, other than decreasing his reload time to 2.5 seconds, as he is already one of the strongest killers in the game (when played well). Making him move at 115% would give him stupid levels of oppression in chase. He would probably be THE best chaser in the game, catching up quicker and doing mindgames he wouldn't be able to (and doesn't need to) with his current speed. It would be like increasing nurse's speed to 110%.
I did an addon pass, as some kind people in here mentioned, if you're interested.He takes a lot of skill to get good results, and buffing him even a tiny bit too much would tip his balance completely.
Stupid level of oppression in chase isn't anything special or even actually "opressive" in this game, stupid level of movement speeds are.
There is few of killers who are absolutely good at chase, but none is top tier maybe except nurse.
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Yes it isn't possible, because it'll just make good players to be blocked.
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@CaseTrain3322 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688822#Comment_3688822
Either you play only strong killers or you are just trolling
When I play weaker killers, I feel lot more rewarded for tunneling than playing stronger killers.
I believe the difference between tunnel and no tunnel is bigger on weaker killer.
Just don't chase SB players, they sucks for tunneling.
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If somehow killer want to take a bad perk just for the sake of countering lights which pretty much never connects anyway, let them be.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
And make the menus even more laggy than they already are? I'd rather not.
If people want to tailor the items they're getting, they can just level manually.
levelling maually is somehow lot slower than auto, for absolutely no reason.
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@accessoire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688305#Comment_3688305
You just confirmed that a player has to learn the power and the maps to be good at the killer right now. Which would be changed and made easier with the patch.
That is not good game design. Most people agree on the fact that a hard and complex but fun and rewarding killer is better than a simple and easy to learn but dull killer.
(Otherwise they could just make a killer that has an M2 that has a 100% hit every 20 seconds. No one wants that cause it is boring to play as and against.)
That is why this change is horrible. It's not that it would make him weaker. It's just making him more boring and less complex for anyone playing him for a long time.I just believe power should be consistent, not "consistent".
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If you trigger it once and still can't win, the problem is on you.
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Devs seems to be pretty generous for tunneling?
I haven't felt punished for doing this even once, actually feels opposite.
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@JoaoVanBlizzard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688386#Comment_3688386
I disagree, before spine chill was nerfed, killers won, besides, killers lose to survs that loop well and not to stealth survs
Pretty much all the stealth killer powers are solely based on not getting detected, of course they can win even with no power because some survivors just absolutely sucks, that doesn't mean allowing a SINGLE perk to hard counter the whole point of those already less than mediocre killers healthy for the game.
And if you didn't know, the difficulty to "loop well" solely depends on killer power, it's nigh impossible to "loop well" clown, it's absolutely easy to "loop well" stealth killers, simply because whole point of them is to deny the chase itself.
Oh also, if every survivors are goddamn good at stealth and killers can't find them, they do finish all gens intact and killers will absolutely lose without any chase, so yeah killers do lose to stealth survs, unless those stealth survs are also absolutely horrible one that doesn't even do gens.
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Honestly at this point of the game it can be a supermarket where you can buy any perks of choice.
I don't get why they are so stubborn about making new players suffer for longer time.
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@goodfriday said:
Death slinger is fine where he is at, Idk about yall but I been getting so many of them recently and its draining. The fact he can shoot and grab you through a sealed boarded up window in killer shack is insane, not even huntress with her beach ball size hit box can do that with a hatchet at shack
He out of all killers has the easiest way to negate base kit bt and is pretty good for tunneling thanks to his power because they can just hold you down then after 10 seconds knock you out again. The fact that if even if you break free from his power it still injures you and put your in mend state which makes 0 sense to me to this day and time, talk about a ranged version of the Legion.
He can shoot and grab but does that even matter, if deep would without down is all you want legion does it a lot better in every ######### way.
If he is so strong in tunneling it basically leaves no choice but to tunnel, which means he is in extremely unhealthy state.
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Legion have lot better tracking and capability to vault window and pallet, while not having attack charge.
still weaker than twins for sure though.
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Or perhaps actual problem is the fact somehow people not having fun in tryharding.
Maybe they should have fun in tryharding, in PvP game.
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There is no reason to implement such system because it just hinders good player.