dugman
dugman
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I’m confused, as far as I know Survivors don’t hear Whispers, only the killer does. (Supposed Survivors who are under Madness from the Doctor also hear that Whispers sound effect but otherwise I’m not aware of them hearing it.) 🤷♂️
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Same here. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but I know it’s almost always my fault if I got bad results and not the game. The games I lose are the ones where I whiffed attacks or missed a hiding survivor or whatever, personal misplays far outweigh almost all the balance issues people mention here. I’m disappointed in myself when I lose, not the game. (And yesterday I played Hag like crap, just missed attacks for no reason. Old man reflexes are the worst. 🙁)
I don’t know what my MMR is and I don’t care, just like I never cared about my emblem rank or grade. I just play the game a few times a night, try and do well, and what happens happens. 🤷♂️
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@gilgamer said:
All it tells me is that they just never looked at swf stats before SBMM came out.
Actually they have looked at swf stats in the past, they included a chart showing swf impacts on escape rates a couple years ago. The chart showed basically about a +3% escape rate boost per person beyond the first in the swf (i.e. about 3% for 2-person, 6% for 3-person and 10% for 4-person, something like that.) And they, for instance, revamped Object of Obsession a while ago specifically because it was having a disparate impact on games with swfs. So they’ve definitely had it on their radar a while.
It’s possible either the swfs discrepancy grew over the last six months or so or the data they got from the MMR is more compelling than what they had under the Emblem system. Or maybe it just took them a while to come up with a specific way to boost solos that they liked which didn’t break the game somehow. Who knows? 🤷♂️
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@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735407#Comment_2735407
Yeah its pretty hard to change a number in the code. Sure.
There are just no people working on balance alone. Thats it.
Changing a number is easy to do, testing the change is harder and all the changes which require being in a patch take longer still because patches are scheduled in advance.
And also they do patches every month and a half or so which typically include numerous bug fixes and tweaks. They don’t include every single add-on and perk every patch because that’s totally unrealistic in terms of testing, not to mention a lot of add-ons and perks probably don’t need changes. And of course anything they test which turns out to be ok we won’t see listed in patch notes because they’re not changing anything, so who knows how much they test or review on a regular basis that they don’t report?
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@Laluzi said:
If the survivor was playing the game normally up until that point, what she did is very understandable.
At the stage where two survivors remain, there isn't much you can do. Once they catch somebody, the killer is not going to move far from the hook, because it is the only place the other survivor will be (unless there's just one gen left to do, but that's a risky prospect and allows a save.) If they're not camping the hook outright, they're going to return immediately once the unhook happens, and if they're not crazy, they won't be far. Going and unhooking the survivor will typically result in both of you dead unless the rescuer is healthy, has Borrowed Time, and neither of you screw up and get downed in less than 15 seconds.
Even if you do successfully get away and the killer downs her, your positions are now reversed (and you're now injured, which means you can't bum rush a save and will probably go down before you reach the hook.) You can't recover from this situation. You can only hook trade until you both die (which will happen if the killer decides they want the 4k; they'll slug the first and go after the second once they know where the second is), or one of you gets hatch. The teammate decided she wanted the hatch and left you behind.
If she was healthy, she could have tried, but it wasn't ever going to result in something better than you or her getting out through hatch, and may have ended with you both dead. If she was injured, there was no way she could save you, period. It's unfortunate, but players aren't obligated to sacrifice themselves to save you.
I'll still go for the save because I have BT and I like bloodpoints, but I understand when players don't and I'll often let myself die on hook if they don't immediately run for me so that they don't have to make that choice and can look for hatch safely.
Of course, if the teammate was hiding in a locker all game, that's a different story. But hiding in a locker while the killer patrols the only other guy left isn't a sin.
Actually when I’m down to two survivors I hook one and actively look for the other or, if the hook timer is close to finishing, head toward the shack or main building to see if I can quickly spot the hatch. I figure if the other person actually rescues the hooked survivor I’ll easily get another hook since I know exactly where they both are, or I might even spot the rescuer running in while I’m looking for him and cut him off.
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I agree, generally speaking the red aura add-ons are all really solid I think.
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Honestly the game is more or less the same. I started playing about three years ago, played for a year, then stopped for a year because I got distracted by other games, and came back a couple months ago. And yeah, there were new characters added and revamped graphics on the maps and tweaks all over and such but the game overall is basically the same as what I played when I started. If you liked the game two years ago you’d like it now, if you hated it two years ago you’d hate it now. The core gameplay loops haven’t changed.
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Old or not, I definitely recommend watching Michi's channel and his Hag guide. Everything he says in that guide is still true as far as I know.
Also as far as Michi goes, one of the more interesting builds that uses an Artist perk he did recently was
- Scourge Hook Pain Resonance - Regresses most progressed gen by 15% and forces survivors off it
- Dead Man's Switch - When he showcased this, it used the current version where when he hooks the Obsession it blocks the generator that Pain Resonance explodes for 45 seconds assuming the survivors were on it. As of the PTB though Dead Man's Switch now triggers on all hooks, not just the Obsession, so it's even more powerful
- Furtive Chase - Again, with the current Dead Man's Switch, it requires hooking the Obsession. So he used Furtive Chase to swap the Obsession when they got rescued. This perk isn't necessary as of the PTB though, you could replace it with something else such as Corrupt Intervention to give yourself more time to place traps in the start of the match
- Make Your Choice - Makes the rescuer of someone Exposed. As Hag when this happen you can usually just teleport back and get an easy hook trade back on the Scourge Hook for more slowdown.
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734729#Comment_2734729
Yes, all true. But what does it have to do with survivor qualities? I'm not arguing that it's not important, I just don't understand why it matters. Please explain.
I was just pointing out that the statement "MMR is only evaluating deaths and escapes, so any other qualities are irrelevant" isn't accurate because it does consider other qualities of the match besides just whether or not someone died to determine how much MMR goes up and down (i.e. relative ratings, duration of the match, the order they died). It's a common misconception on the forum that all that matters is if someone dies or escapes, but the context of when they died in the match and the relative ratings also matters.
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734583#Comment_2734583
No one would want to watch 100 matches. Besides, MMR is only evaluating deaths and escapes, so any other qualities are irrelevant.
That's not quite correct about MMR only looking at escape and deaths. It's true that whether a survivor dies or escapes determines if a killer's MMR goes up or down respectively and vice versa for the survivor. But how much the MMR goes up or down supposedly depends on other factors, including the relative ratings of the players, the order the player died (i.e. the first death has more weight than later deaths since once one survivor dies it makes it easier to kill a second survivor, etc), and I think the length of time it took to kill a player. The MMR doesn't just go up or down a set amount every match, it varies depending on the scenario.
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@Ghoste said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734589#Comment_2734589
I suppose that's fair, but still. These changes deserve a spotlight because of how long they've been requested!
Yep, I agree they deserved more attention, that's why I made the thread. 🙂
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@Ghoste said:
Wait, that's a LOT of fixes. How did they not mention this in the dev update??? Surely they realize how many of us have been complaining about these bugs for years on end. This is great news!
I think the Developer Update posts were about changes and new features, they left listing the bug fixes for the actual patch notes.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734417#Comment_2734417
Yes, new voice actor and new voice lines.
Not new, original. It's Doug Bradley the original Pinhead doing the voice lines.
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Pinhead's kind unusual because a lot of the killers just don't talk. Going down the list, I think the only ones that would talk might be
- Freddy
- Clown
- Legion
- Plague does talk but not in an understandable language
- Ghost Face (mostly on the phone)
- Deathslinger (although he has a broken jaw so maybe not)
- Charlotte (probably in French, and Victor probably doesn't speak)
- Trickster (probably in Korean)
- Pinhead already talks quite a lot
- Artist maybe? Hard to tell
All the rest just don't seem to be the type to have voice lines.
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I like Pinhead, he's fun to play. 🙂
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@gilgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732937#Comment_2732937
I don't disagree and honestly, my issue isn't that pinkie finger got nerfed. My problem is more with why they decided to, in the same patch, nerf 2 clown addons and buff a blight addon, which is still gonna be awful anyway. It's the direction this patch is leading the game that I have a massive problem with, namely just looking at what has high use rates and what has low use rates and balancing around that and it being an overall super lazy patch only made it worse
I don't think it was a "lazy patch", there are a ton of Nurse fixes as well that weren't mentioned in the update. (Not that I play Nurse but I'm guessing Nurse mains will be happy about all the fixes.)
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I don't know that survivors need a buff, the game seems to be in a pretty reasonable spot overall honestly in terms of most matches between equal opponents being 1-3 kills.
I could see maybe a perk where the survivors can actively stun the killer though. Something like
Backstab
- Hold the Activate Ability button to charge up Backstab. It takes 1.5 seconds to charge a Backstab, and while holding and charging your movement is reduced to 80% normal. Being hit by a killer ability cancels the charge and you are Exhausted
- Release the button while within 1 meter of the killer outside of their field of view to attack them. If successful the killer is stunned for 5 seconds. Regardless of whether or not your attack hits you are Exhausted
So it would be a high risk/high reward maneuver that's an alternative to flashlights. You have to be able to somewhat slowly sneak up on the killer from behind to get the stun, and if they turn and see you then the stun won't work. But if it does work it can pay off with a save on someone being carried, etc.
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@Seanzu said:
Here is a clip of almost every skill check hit (except one)
https://clips.twitch.tv/SmoothAgilePidgeonKreygasm-RUJzXTqJTU-XUO_S
The skill checks get progressively harder.
Ok, seriously that guy is a freaking machine with the checks, holy moly! Nice reflexes!
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Yeah the blurb they included makes it sound like they’re all connected which is why it probably took a while.
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I love that they got Doug Bradley to do new voice lines, it’s up there with when they got Bruce Campbell to do all of Ash’s voice lines. 👍
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Out of curiosity where is the chart from?
p.s. Found it
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I don’t bother with PTB, it takes a new download each time to go back and forth and I can wait to try new stuff.
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@MrDardon said:
I mean, they called Wraith overpowered, so them saying that one of the weakest Perks is overpowered doesn't surprise me tbh.
But if stats say it's op then it is clearly op. (This was sarcasm)
To be fair they said the original version when it first came out was overpowered but they nerfed it too hard. I never used it when it first came out so I don’t have an opinion on how good or bad it used to be.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732968#Comment_2732968
Her add-ons?
but I guess this is actually likely.
they have stated they revisit new content after some major patches (chapters/midchapters) and since Mikaela was a Midchapter release maybe her review is due for… next chapter?
But CoH really needs a nerf right now..
Oh yeah, Circle of Healing is kind of busted. I’ll be surprised if it isn’t eventually nerfed
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They’re probably still working on Mikaela’s balance pass. I’m guessing when they get around to doing a pass on her they’ll do a few tweaks up or down on her add-ons as well as her three perks, including Circle of Healing.
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@SeannyD115 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732951#Comment_2732951
Dark devotion doesn't have a cool down either yet you can't use it back to back
I’ll take your word on Dark Devotion not resetting. Maybe Dark Devotion and Pop work differently because one triggers on hits and the other on hooks?
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732930#Comment_2732930
If you do intend to try Dark Souls 3, make sure you install the Blue Sentinel mod first. It's a mod that protects you from hackers.
Even the DS community is better at warding cheaters than BHVR.
There's a lot of people that like to glamorise how hard Dark Souls is, but I found DS3 (The only one I've played) to be quite manageable. And if you want an easier time, you can always team up with a friend.
Thanks, I wasn’t planning on it though. Didn’t sound all that appealing to me.
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@SeannyD115 said:
I'm pretty sure DMS doesn't reset it's self on each hook so if you get two fast hooks it won't work.
Besides that there are only a few killers that will be able to make use out of DMS. High mobility, Freddy, demo, and artist.
On Freddy once you get DMS off once with class photo people will realize what you are doing and just stay on the gen or let go before you hook.
People have complained about how broken artist will be with DMS but I've been running DMS with nemesis and doing the same thing. The only difference is I won't need nemesis. Survivors will just let go of the gen before you hook then wait for you to launch the birds or work on a gen that's above or below artist.
So I don't think it will be meta
The perk doesn’t say anything about a cooldown so it probably works like Pop in that it resets every hook.
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More bug fixes probably, I doubt it will have any more perk or add-on balance items though since those would probably have been included in part 2.
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No it’s not toxic. It’s just a perk. It’s literally in the game because the devs want players to use it.
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@gilgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732147#Comment_2732147
Otz, and Scott have large backgrounds in Dark souls (idk about tru3 I don't watch him) and Elden ring is a spiritual successor to the dark souls franchise
Got it, makes sense why they’re interested then.
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@gilgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729801#Comment_2729801
Clown anything isn't really busted tbh and it's an addon not a perk. Even after his rework and buffs he's still easily one of the worst killers in the game with pretty much any loadout.
I agree he’s not a great killer typically. With Pinkie he wasn’t one of the worst though, he was actually pretty good because of the instant downs. Still not top tier or anything, but good.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732147#Comment_2732147
Its Dark Souls but open world. Don't worry, theres gonna be tons of people streaming it regardless of their normal genre, and plenty of clips floating around of your favorite streamers dying. Hype will last for about ~~~ 3 weeks to a month. People...er....streamers who want to 100% the game will keep going, others will either go back or hop on the next trend. Its how it goes.
Got it, yeah I never played Dark Souls.
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@legrosporc69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732147#Comment_2732147
If you never played any dark souls i dont think the game will be for you. If you want to get an idea how good the game is try dark souls 3 gameplay wise it feel the same.
Yeah, I never played Dark Souls. 🤷♂️
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732165#Comment_2732165
Is it really that broken when it's Iridescent Head with extra steps?
It was that broken, yes. Hitting survivors isn’t all that difficult and he could carry four bottles to do it.
And fyi Iridescent Head only has one shot. So this nerf is really bringing Pinkie in line with that (assuming 2 bottles roughly equals 1 axe here)
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The zombies are the part of Nemesis I like the idea of, hopefully someday they’ll get a bit smarter and faster so they feel more like a threat. But even now when I play Nemesis I do like them as survivor radars. I see a zombie chasing someone, head over, try and coral the survivor toward the zombie if possible, and after the chase ends I whip the zombie to gain infection and get it to respawn elsewhere to maybe help keep the survivors on their toes wondering where zombies might be.
The whip seems mainly good for breaking pallets honestly, not quite as good at doing damage since it basically takes an extra hit usually. Honestly if it weren’t for the zombies I wouldn’t care about Nemesis at all other than he has an intimidating look.
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- Unless I'm misreading their update Gearhead is getting a straight up buff. The update never says that it's losing the generator aura when survivors do a Good check, the way I'm reading it it sounds like they're also adding that if a survivor gets a Great skill check you see the survivor's aura for 10 seconds (which is also a long time for that sort of aura). And it's active after any damage, not just every other basic attack. But hey, maybe I'm misreading it, we'll see tomorrow. 🤷♂️
- Pinkie Finger was definitely overpowered as an add-on, it totally deserves the nerf. I'm not saying Clown couldn't possibly use a bit of a buff to his base kit, but that add-on was kind of broken.
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@Pipefish said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732147#Comment_2732147
Exactly its a totally different genre. Not like its going to replace DBD for them because its a completely different experience. Meanwhile if it was a game that played like DBD but was much more enjoyable that'd be another story...
Right, I mean VHS is the one that's closer to DbD, and honestly even that looks more like Overwatch than this.
(And after I posted the above I realized Elden Ring looks like it resembles Monster Hunter World more than Neverwinter. I liked Monster Hunter World a bit, not enough to stick with it for very long though. Honestly if I want to play an RPG I'll just go play Path of Exile probably.)
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@Veinslay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732115#Comment_2732115
I stand corrected on Dowsey. I honestly didn't realize he went back to Twitch. I saw he had nothing but VHS streams on YouTube
Scott Jund did post in a different thread today that he's definitely going to be taking a break from DbD when Elden Ring comes out. Some of the other streamers probably will too, it's got a lot of hype. (I'm not all that interested in Elden Ring personally, it just looks like Monster Hunter World with better graphics to me. 🤷♂️ Totally different genre of game.)
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@Pipefish said:
They'd probably leave regardless, Elden Ring has so much hype.
Elden Ring looks good I guess? Totally different genre though. Looks to me like Neverwinter with better graphics basically. I have basically no interest in it. 🤷♂️
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@Veinslay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732051#Comment_2732051
I know you weren't talking to me, but a handful that I watch that quit playing killer include TricksterShadow, Jaee, Fungoose (admittedly before MMR/boons), Hexy just hard camps as killer and rages when he does play which is only a couple times a stream, Dowsey isn't playing killer anymore, tru3 is quitting etc. Otzdarva even quit his stream early today cause he was bummed out about the patch. I found that surprising though cause I thought the game wasn't survivor sided per his last video
- I don't watch Dowsey but I checked out his most recent stream and flipping through it looks like he was only playing killer for half of it and also played VHS. (Sounded like he was having trouble with hackers?)
- I looked up Otz's video today and he's still playing killer. He didn't seem like he was in a good mood generally speaking. 🤷♂️
I didn't bother looking up Tru3ta1ent. He's a good player but he complains about everything all the time. Some of his complaints are valid, some are just sore losing, it just wasn't worth watching any more with him.
(For reference I mainly watch Youtube uploads, not Twitch. I like OhTofu and Otz's uploads, some of Dowseys, and some of Scott Jund's. And of course Samnation. 😄 Tru3 is really prolific on YouTube, like I said though I got tired of his stuff.)
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I made a similar suggestion a little while back where I recommended that area effects centered on a point or character have ranges that are proportional to the map size. So rather than a flat 32 meter range it's something 32% of the maximum width of the map (assuming an average map is 100m wide as a placeholder here). This would apply not just to area effect perks but also the killer's terror radius (since there are a lot of effects that happen within the terror radius).
Obviously devil is in the details, but I agree that in principle making area effect radiuses vary by map size could help with some of the balance variances on these sorts of perks.
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@Travis_Bateman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732003#Comment_2732003
At least they buffed one of slinger's perks to compensate for his ######### underserving nerf.
Why are people so afraid of a meta change lulz
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6FQ3TIOQPO2L/1517350308879.gif
The perk buff has nothing to do with Deathslinger's basekit. Any killer can potentially use the perk, not just him, it's kind of not that relevant to how good or bad Deathslinger is.
I don't have that strong an opinion on Deathslinger's effectiveness. I do think he's less fun to play now, though, since his turning speed just feels super slow, to the point of being annoying. For comparison, Huntress and Trickster for example can turn at their normal rate while holding up their weapons. Deathslinger's horizontal turn rate is 40% the normal rate (according to the wiki), it's just painful. Hopefully they'll get rid of that turning speed decrease while aiming and then he'll be more enjoyable.
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@DeadArsenal said:
It's really a sad state of affairs. Even content creators that have loved and enjoyed this game for years are abandoning ship.
The ones I watch are still playing, who are you thinking of?
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Lol, I'm a killer main so what's in it for me? 😉 I mean, the longest I ever hold a button down is 3 seconds I think (e.g. Freddy teleporting, Clown reloading).
Seriously though, this is nice for people who play survivor, less finger and wrist strain which can be a problem for some players.
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It's definitely a good buff to the perk, no question, it's making it so the perk might actually be used on its own versus just in certain specific combination builds. And there will definitely be a lot of people trying out the Scourge Hook Pain Resonance + Dead Man's Switch combo!
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None of Mikaela's perks or add-ons were mentioned this update so I'm guessing that just means her balance pass is scheduled for later, maybe the next chapter after this. It makes sense for them to do a full balance pass on a new character all at once some months after they're released so when they do finally release it we'll probably see a list of minor tweaks to her add-ons along with probably a nerf to Circle of Healing and maybe a tweak one way or another to Shadowstep and Clairvoyance and possibly a tweak to Boons in general if they found something in the overall system they think was problematic. (Almost all the complaints about Boons are due to Circle of Healing though so really if they nerf that one it addresses almost all the negative posts about Boons.)
So it's disappointing Mikaela's pass isn't this midchapter patch, but maybe next patch in March. 🤷♂️
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@lauraa said:
Wow, I never actually realized that Furtive Chase only reduces your Terror Radius in chase. That sucks.
To be fair, I guess it's why they named it Furtive "Chase". Still, ... yeah, it's kind of a dumb effect.
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@BigChapAlien21 said:
I'm still kind of in disbelief that Nemesis and Twins received what I assume are going to be some pretty significant nerfs to their best addons in this upcoming mid-chapter.
I don't think anyone thought these Killers were overbearing. Maybe a bit boring to play against but not overbearing. So why the nerfs to their strongest addons? Personally, I think the problem comes from BHVR focusing primarily on stats as opposed to in-game performance. Maybe shoddy wording, what I mean is that BHVR saw the data of Nemesis matches for example, saw that most of them were using Marvin's Blood and decided that the best way to promote diversity was to nerf it without really thinking if Nemesis was too strong with Marvin's Blood.
In my opinion, it leads to a very bad situation where stats will make a Killer or addon seem overbearing (or in Nurse's case underbearing) when the reality is a lot different, and then these nonsensical balance decisions are made.
I suspect that's not quite how they look at stats. What's more likely is they compare games where a killer uses a particular add-on to games where they don't use a particular add-on at various levels of MMR and see if there's significant differences in the kill rate or possibly if there's some other red flag. A perk being really popular on its own wouldn't be enough for them to nerf it, if that were the case they'd have nerfs Dead Hard or NOED by now for example since they're maybe the two most popular perks in the game for Survivor and Killer and neither's been touched in a long time.
The fact is nobody on this forum actually knows what the stats behind the scenes are for these particular perks you're talking about. But I will say there's a decent chance both Twins and Nemesis have decent if not above average kill rates even without using those particular perks despite what some people on the forums seem to think. So I'm not surprised that if they determined an add-on gave a little too much of an edge they'd tone it down.
Also a couple other notes
- The devs have explicitly said that they don't just look at kill rate in a vacuum and used Nurse as an example of a killer with a low kill rate in the overall averages which does not need a buff because her performance is significantly better at high ratings.
- You mentioned Twins and Nemesis, but the biggest nerf was actually to Clown's Pinkie Finger, they pretty much did the same sort of nerf to it that they did to Huntress' Iri Hatchets where his ammo is greatly reduced. And frankly that Clown add-on deserved that nerf, it was way overpowered. Clown himself is probably not great overall in my opinion, but that's just me, I don't know the stats behind him. But presumably they're comfortable enough with him without using that red add-on that they haven't buffed his base kit so far since his last rework. Then again, base kit reworks take a while and they already mentioned Legion being the next target, so who knows? Maybe Clown will get another look someday.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2731802#Comment_2731802
Nobody and I mean nobody uses the perk to change obsessions we have Nemesis and decesive strike for that
Actually Michi used it in a video a few weeks ago in this Hag loadout
- Scourge Hook Pain Resonance - regresses most progressed gen and forces survivor off it
- Dead Man's Switch - Blocks the gen the survivors got forced off for 45 seconds when the Obsession is hooked
- Furtive Chase - Switches the Obsession to the rescuer
- Make Your Choice - Exposes the new Obsession. Hag teleports back for an easy down and repeat the above
I agree though that in a lot of cases Nemesis is the better choice if you want a perk to occasionally swap Obsessions since Nemesis' other effect (making the Obsession Oblivious) is better than Furtive Chase. But the above combo is one of those rare times Furtive Chase is a little better for the swapping.