dugman
dugman
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@Chaellooo said:
You dont lose them
Great, thanks!
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@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265900#Comment_3265900
wich is silly i should be getting newbies with my new killer not having to lose till eventually i get to where i should be wit ha killer i dont know how to use.
It's not as silly as you're making it sound. I'm pretty sure, for instance, that someone who's extremely good with Clown could do pretty well with most any other basic attack killer out of the gate. Sure, being good at a "typical" killer won't help as much with someone who's extremely reliant on special attacks like Nurse or Huntress or Deathslinger, etc, but many killers have a lot of overlap in the skills required to play them.
Also note that when you first play a killer your rating goes up or down quickly for a little while to help it more efficiently get to roughly the right bracket. So even if your initial rating is a bit too high or too low it'll even out once you've played some games.
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@hiken said:
the MMR is shared i got some nasty SWF with thousand of hours when i tried adepts wich were the first time i was playing those killers... and is kinda silly indeed.
They're not shared, it's just that when you play a killer for the first time it uses your other killer ratings to set your new killer's initial rating. After that though it's independent.
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I think some people underestimate the value of map mobility compared to chase abilities. If anything macro abilities like teleportation may be more important than abilities which directly help in chase. If chasing efficiently was the most important asset then Clown, for instance, would be one of the most successful killers. But every time you actually look at kill rates at any bracket of play you find that the top killers have abilities that enhance the macro gameplay as opposed to being only chase related.
That’s why Dredge is decent, even though he’s not great in loops his mobility and stealth in Nightfall combine to really help him at the macro strategic level during the match. It’s also why Sadako does better than people who overestimate the importance of chase abilities think, her teleportation and stealth and passive slowdown from Condemned likewise help her macro game (though I think Dredge is a bit better in that respect personally since on most maps his teleport is more flexible.)
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264976#Comment_3264976
It does more harm than good.
Everybody takes those stats far too seriously and starts fights over them.
Stats aren’t the cause of fights, people get into arguments all the time over things we have no stats on at all.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263597#Comment_3263597
And that's good because?
It's literally not. It's literally not even a change, you're simply losing less MMR if you get sacrificed as long as someone survives. BUT SOMEOME SURVIVING DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU HELPED, which is what this change is supposed to mean. IT's supposed to reflect wether you help them survivor or not.
I can still go hide in a bush all match and get hatch and even if hatch doesn't count for MMR then who cares? Everyone and their mother is Top MMR when the Cap is riddiculously low....So MMR useless, so losing less MMR or gaining a bit more MMR based on how manny escapes or kills there are is absolutly redundant. It changes nothing.
There's still no point in helping each other as survivor, you'll still see manny survivors not help each other. Which changes nothing in SoloQ and still has the issue or making SWF's better. You're gonna SWF with reliable people so even if someone in the SWF dies they lose less MMR but SWF players do help each other unlike SoloQ. And you don't need Comms to help each other, the simple fact you can rely on someone else is already a strong enough reason to SWF over SoloQ.
That's why the game should be made with Team Work in mind instead of giving survivors a way out by playing selfish. Personally i feel much happier knowing i helped others even if end up dead instead of going LoneWolf and surviving. Me being a dick and surviving means jack sheet if everyone else dies because i didn't help them. Me dying because nobody was willing to help me, pisses me off because with me dead i can't help them either. IT's a lose lose for the survivors because they opted to be selfish and not help me.
The whole purpose of MMR is to try and help the system make matches that have about a 50% chance of either side winning. Note also that ON AVERAGE someone surviving more often than not in your matches means you probably are helping them more than hurting them, and MMR is about making a rating based on averages over many games.
I do agree that the game should be more clearly based around the idea of the survivors actually being a team. Semi-cooperative game design rarely works well.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263318#Comment_3263318
But you're only focused on the result and discarding everything else. That's like using 4 slowdown perks or 4 second chances. You don't give a ######### how you're playing and how it affects everything else as long as you get the objective and you win.
Exactly. MMR is just a way to estimate the chance of winning or losing on average. How you win or lose doesn't matter.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263013#Comment_3263013
3 minutes is the maximum queue.
If it can't find you a good match within 3 minutes it gives up and expands the MMR range by several hundred points, which covers about half the player base and everyone at the top end.
It’s actually probably not quite that large a range. The rough estimate that seemed to fit was the ratings follow something like a normal distribution of 1000 being the mean, a standard deviation of 400, and a soft cap of 1600 with the widest bracket being about +/- 200. With those variables you’d have about 16% of players are in the 1400+ range so if the algorithm actually strictly sticks within that bracket then it’s still only covering 16% of the players if anybody is at or above the soft cap.
What’s more likely with mismatches is things which get the algorithm to ignore MMR altogether like backfilling empty spaces in lobbies (where it just grabs the first available player so it doesn’t have four people waiting) and swfs where two or more friends have wide gaps in ratings but must play together, or simply the system eventually just grabs the first available slot after so many minutes regardless of rating.
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Because the object of the game is for as many survivors to escape as possible. If three or four survivors escaping isn’t a win for the survivor side and at most one survivor escaping isn’t a loss then what is?
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I explore the map, break pallets, and see if I can close the hatch or maybe get lucky occasionally and catch a survivor who forgot where the gate was or something. (It doesn't happen often but once in a blue moon I'll get an extra kill because someone was goofing around far from an exit.)
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- Demo hasn't been on sale for a year. That alone cuts into his usage. (Sure, not everybody started playing over the last 12 months but it's not a negligible number either.)
- Wesker in particular is pretty similar mechanically to Demogorgon and is quite popular, so there are presumably a lot of people who used to play Demogorgon more often that now either play Wesker instead or split their time between the two.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259820#Comment_3259820
This is the information we have been given from people who can see MMR. I bought a killer during the 50% shard sale and after playing them fewer than 15 games I was back in ultra sweat mode.
The problem with MMR is that it's not fair to have people way over 1600 MMR (say in the 2200 range) playing against people who are 1601 MMR.
Essentially it feels like the devs don't care about balance. The system works for low/middle tier players and everyone suffers at high MMR.
Like I said before, the devs said if you are already over 1600+ on a killer then you’ll be a 1200 by default on other new killers. And you initial games on new killers go up or down much more quickly than later games so if you won a bunch of games right away at 1200 then you could easily go up a lot higher to that 1600 range again.
Also when we’ve estimated the percentage of players over 1600+ it’s something like 7% assuming a normal distribution using some figures the devs mentioned about the average rating and how many were over the old cap. So if you’re over that cap you’re well above average.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259820#Comment_3259820
I can tell you from experience, that I played just 1 game as several killers was immediately put against a full squad of people with over 2000 hours. It may have once worked like you are describing but now if you have any killers over the MMR cap, every new killer will start at the high MMR cap. I experience this on Pyramidhead, the dredge, sadako, hag... etc. I remember they used to put you at the lower cap so that you could learn those killers, but I guess they didn't like that very much. Every new killer I play now, I am thrown into the deep end. I end up losing several games just learning the killer before I start getting a single kill.
Being against a full squad of high MMR players means very little since that often happens because the algorithm has nobody to pair them against and they end up going against whoever is available. And like I said, if your MMR is 1600+ then you’re treated as 1200+ which is in the above average bracket.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259518#Comment_3259518
I can tell you that they have since made it so that if you have any killers above the MMR cap, all of your new killers will also be above the MMR cap. Each killer retains it's own MMR but if you are over the cap, then most likely all of your killers are also over the cap.
No, I think you're misremembering it, it was if you're over the soft cap of 1600 then your other killers aren't at 1600, they're at something like 1200.
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Technically the survivors are different because they have different perks available to them initially. A new Dwight isn’t going to be using the same perks as a new Kate for instance. So in the short run they do have different abilities.
I’m not against the idea in principle of survivors having unique innate abilities, I’m not sure it’s worth the developmental effort though since the character differences probably wouldn’t be too much dissimilar to simply running different perks.
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No, the old emblem system was definitely worse than MMR. And this was evidenced for instance when they did tests this year and the day with the closest match ups was the one where the algorithm most strictly followed MMR and one of the worst matchup tests was the one where they switched to the medal system.
MMR is fine, mismatches mainly happen due to the algorithm ignoring it.
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The devs have commented that killers actually do have truly independent ratings, the only thing that changes is when you first play a new killer your initial rating is based on the ratings of your other killers. They said it’s something like you normally start at 650 with a new character unless you have a killer with a 1600+ rating in which case your new killers start at 1200.
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@ColonGlock said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258688#Comment_3258688
Mindbreaker kills. So many never get saved because someone on a gen is not paying attention to the status icons.
Yeah, I run Third Seal nowadays not just because of that but because Windows of Opportunity is the second most used perk in the game after Dead Hard. Blindness cancelling that and things like Kindred and Wiretap, etc, is kind of satisfying. 🙂 (I’m going back and forth on whether I run Fearmonger or Blood Echo currently to counter exhaustion perks. Usually I go with Fearmonger because it’s more reliably on but I’m giving Blood Echo another try simply because in theory its Exhaustion can last a lot longer if you can keep everybody Injured. I’m not sure I’ll stick with it though since its so conditional. 🤷♂️)
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Slugging for pressure is fine, nothing wrong with that. Strategically you’re trading off risking losing a hook state to save yourself 10 seconds towards getting value from a follow-up chase. If you can get an injury or down prior to going back for the hook then it can amplify getting the other survivors off the gens to help recover the team. But if you slug too long or too often you can lose hook states without getting enough back in return, so it’s a balancing act.
The only time I can think of where slugging is really unsportsmanlike is when someone intentionally just bleeds out the last downed survivors for four minute simply to drag it out longer. That’s a jerk move.
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Honestly I think the game would be better off if the lobby wasn’t visible. Just have it so when you click Ready it sets up a match behind the scenes and simply sends everybody to it, no campfire lobby at all so no lobby dodging occurs. You lose a bit of survivor chatter before the match and the killer doesn’t immediately know what items are brought but those are relatively minor downsides in my opinion compared to the benefit of eliminating lobby dodging.
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@ReviloDBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255581#Comment_3255581
I was actually genuinely curious about this portion of it, from Killer's perspective, how much effective time that would save in matches and would it actually sort of feel better than people are expecting.
I think the most common endgames where the killer wins and has cleanup are
- Three dead and one left standing. Normally either the survivor dies after getting downed (barring some rare Decisive Strike play or really unlucky hook placement) or they find the hatch or open a gate and get out before getting downed. If they get downed it takes about 10 seconds to hook them so it’s mostly a wash time-wise with a mori animation.
- Two survivors left alive, one is downed and the other is spotted and chased. If the killer downs them they get hooked and then the killer has to go find the other previously downed survivor and hook them to end it (barring them getting up in the meantime with Unbreakable very occasionally). Best case It takes 10 seconds to do that first hook and then probably another at least 10 seconds to walk over to where the first survivor was downed and 10 more seconds to hook them. Worst case you hook the first survivor and the second survivor has crawled away into a hiding spot and you can’t find them so they bleed out over a few minutes of searching. So this situation the cleanup can last anywhere from 30 seconds to 3-4 minutes.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/353731/god-i-cant-wait-for-the-bots
So... you'll never have fun again? It's going to be pretty boring against bots, and if it's anything like zombie AI, they will be such potatoes you will never lose
The bots are way better than the Nemesis zombies. They actually try and dodge ranged attacks and run when they spot the killer and such. They’re obviously not as good as good human players but they look like they’re definitely good enough for new players to practice against or for experienced players trying out an unfamiliar killer to get the hang of an ability.
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@PB_TORCHer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256540#Comment_3256540
The rekindling seems unfair in comparison. That’s all. Every boon is powerful just not common to see
I don’t think Exponential and Dark Theory are all that effective honestly. I’m not saying they’re useless, sometimes they work, but I definitely wouldn’t call them “powerful”. 🤷♂️
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Because the only way for Nurse to hit a survivor in most cases in by Blinking since she moves slower than them. Most killers if they see someone going for a rescue can just walk up to hit them with a basic attack. Nurse’s only option is the Blink unless she just happen to be standing right there already.
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It’s perfectly fine for Boons and Hexes to not work identically so long as the individual perks are balanced around that. And that’s already the case, most Boons aren’t even used more than average because their effects are ok but not top tier. The only Boon anybody ever actually complains about is Circle of Healing, it’s an exception among these perks in that its effect is top tier and that’s why it’s in the top four or five most used survivor perks.
Personally I don’t think Circle of Healing even needs a nerf at this point, it’s a solid perk but I’ve seen plenty of games where survivors actually lost the match because they spent so much time trying to keep that perk up they neglected the gens in the process. It a great perk but might not actually be an overpowered one. So even if it turned out to need a nerf still it would just be a small one and not a total overhaul. And the Boon system as a whole definitely doesn’t need a nerf, do you really think Dark Theory and Exponential and Shadowstep ought to be weaker?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
And killers still:
- Camp and tunnel at five gens.
- Hit on hook.
- Stack four slowdown perks + the strongest addons.
- etc.
The fact that people in this community play like jerks is not new information. Both killers and survivors are as bad as each other when it comes to being unsportsmanlike.
Hitting on hooks is kind of obnoxious, no reason to do it. There’s nothing wrong with “stacking perks” or “tunneling at five gens” though, that’s just trying to kill survivors.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256521#Comment_3256521
Peanits quote posted above states that the number of SWFs with a +15% escape rate are the extreme minority. Meaning that a minority of that 10% have such an extremely different escape rate compared to the average. So the spread is likely far less exaggerated than this.
Right, that’s why if you notice the spread above is only 12%, not 15%.
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If he’s actually a less effective Artist variant on the live servers he won’t be too popular aside from people who just really are into his look or whatever. Artist herself is a below average pick rate opposing killer on Nightlight for instance so being a weaker type of that character would be pretty bad.
That said I’m not going to make any assumption on the live version since Knight does have potential to be on par with Artist with some tweaks and they almost always make changes between the PTB version of a character and the live release. Even if he’s only picked as often as Artist that’s ok.
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@Veinslay said:
Kill rate is like 80% vs solo, 20% vs 4 man SWF. There's a reason why they never show kill rates v 4 man
Actually they have on and off mentioned swf escape rates go up to about +15% max at 4-man and had an earlier chart that showed about a +3-5% escape rate per player beyond the first in a swf. So it’s a good bet it’s something like +3% for 2-person, +7% for 3 person and +12% for 4 person swfs (give or take). Also they released stats a while back on percentages of games with various swf number and I think it was around 50% solo, 25% 2-person swf, 15% 3-person swf and 10% 4-person swf. Combing those together you can estimate from those weights and the 60% overall average the distribution is around
- Solo 63% death rate (50% of players)
- 2-person swf 60% death rate (25% of players)
- 3-person swf 56% death rate (15% of players)
- 4-person swf 51% death rate (10% of players)
That’s a rough estimate but should give an idea of the distribution.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256192#Comment_3256192
Ah, I see. Hatch doesn't interact with Last Standing. Thought you mentioned that it did.
Yeah, I guess it can get confusing between “last standing” and “last living”. The hatch appears when only one survivor is living, and the new system is the game ends when nobody is standing. So you can still escape down the hatch in the new system, you just can’t do it while downed.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256191#Comment_3256191
Agreed. But we are getting quite off topic to actual knock out.
I have only one question - can we agree that it's a good thing, that this perk is bad? I mean in my opinion some perks should never become good, because they would make the game more unhealthy then is current state.
I don't like bad perks, they either should be buffed or revamped.
As far as slugging goes, I've never really understood the complaints about it. If anything you can at least crawl around while slugged which is more than you can do on a hook typically. And eventually in the new slugging system you'll even be able to get yourself off the ground after a while with no perks.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255622#Comment_3255622
Iiinteresting.
Wonder if slugs can crawl out too
Wonder, if the hatch remains visible if another survivor pops up and ends last stand, if you could, with a key, orchestrate a scenario where players intentionally go down to get the hatch to spawn, Unbreakable up, and then key out at 5-gens
No, the hatch appears if only one survivor is left alive, but in the new system if that survivor is downed after the hatch appears then the game ends immediately, they wouldn't be able to crawl anywhere. So they can escape if they get to the hatch before they're downed but not after.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255974#Comment_3255974
I do not like that it negates this type of information. I think it should only negate perks that give wall-hack on the killer as such as Alert, kindred Wallhack, Wiretap and Fogwise. OoO and blood amber keys should also be negated.
I think if Blindness didn't negate basically all auras it would be too weak. At the very least I don't think anybody including me thinks Blindness is overpowered! So I can't imagine nerfing it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255918#Comment_3255918
I think if you rely on window of opportunity to loop, then your not really good at looping with survivor. Its like relying on technician and corrective action to do skill-checks on generators. that's kinda why i dislike window of opportunity for its training wheel aspect. it lower skill-floor for looping. a good looper runs Window of opportunity for different reason compare to a low-middle MMR player. If I run this perk, I use this perk to not go in deadzones from previous chases(teammate chases) and to keep track of my teammates that drop pallets(useful for vs low tr/stealth killers).
a build that I used to run for memes is Order doctor(Fake pallet doctor) and I would pick maps like RPD. You would be surprised for how many people that run windows of opportunity just run into fake pallets and turn their brain off when looping. i find that hilarious. I think that is why they nerfed fake pallet freddy because low-middle mmr survivors rely on window of opportunity and just run into freddy fake pallets like dummies.
Right, good survivors and bad survivors make different use of Windows, but the point is both types frequently use it and Blindness negates it.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255916#Comment_3255916
We're going to have to agree to disagree on what being able to end the game in 7 seconds versus 45 seconds is worth (because again, bleeding out randos doesn't count when it's so easy to fix this problem without breaking everything else.) And getting rid of fun stuff is only a portion of what's wrong with the changes. You're fixating on just a portion of my argument when it contains at least three major concerns.
Same with everything else, I think you're understating how often any of these things happen. Even if it's only once in every ten matches, that's incredibly significant.
Even without the actual perk Unbreakable in its idiotic PTB state (which I already assumed would be changed, it was way too good and it didn't make sense that it was a straight upgrade to No Mither and Exponential), removing slugging still destroys bully counterplay or any sense of urgency/gen pressure with slugged survivors (i.e. DS). 45 seconds, or 35 or whatever the meta perk numbers end up being - it's better than 22, but it still doesn't help me if I'm in a situation I cannot pick anyone up and/or I have not managed to down anyone else. Ironically, it also makes slugging worse with killers who want the 4k no matter what, because they're just going to keep juggling the survivors until they finally manage to get them both down, and it'll take so much longer to get that part over with than before.
I think wanting a smoother endgame when you mass slug, in light of everything else it's going to break or worsen, is pretty selfish, and I just don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on this.
I doubt it's even close to 1 in 10 games.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255572#Comment_3255572
for hex perk, that is not really worth it. its risky hex perk that can go down at any time and the information denial exclusively hurts soloq without comms. I have used third seal as an experimentation perk on tier 3 myer's. the results are pretty funny, you can 4 man slug teams with blindness if they're soloq with myer's but as soon as you go against swf with third seal, survivor pick themselves up as if the status effect does nothing which creates this infinity loop of me downing survivors like +10 times but survivor picking themselves up perfectly at 30 second recovery period. that is why slugging does not really work in 4vs1. your better off hooking survivors in this instance. Blindness only works vs soloq and survivor need to be poor at looping for it to be successful. Strong 4 man comm SWF just make this perk very irrelevant which is why nobody bothers with knock out or third seal. They improve slugging in an irrelevant way compare to how killer use slugging to gain an advantage in the game(based off survivor misplay).
Information denial doesn't "exclusively hurt solo queue" because swf players do frequently run aura perks, including Windows of Opportunity which is the second most common survivor perk in the game. Blindness does hurt solo survivors MORE, but removing aura perks from swfs hurts them too, it's not exclusive to solos.
And if you think "only bad loopers run Windows" you're mistaken. Like I said, it's almost as common as Dead Hard, lots of solid survivor players run it.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255636#Comment_3255636
But far more importantly there were tons of games where the survivors won because slugging was effectively deleted as an option for killers.
Without the option to slug it is incredibly difficult to create pressure when the survivors are efficient.
The issues with slugging mainly revolved around Unbreakable probably needing its speed bonus toned down. If it were up to me I'd swap Unbreakable and No Mither, making Unbreakable maybe a 25% bonus and No Mither a 75%+ bonus to recovery.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255709#Comment_3255709
But my lighthearted stuff doesn't wreck the game for people playing normally, unless you have a conniption every time a survivor tbags you in the middle of a mori or you're one of those people who thinks getting carried to hatch is a grave insult. It's just part of the landscape. The only thing that's actually an issue is killers bleeding people out to be dicks, and I've already posited a solution to that which would break much less stuff in the process.
Downed hatch escapes on their own? Sure, that's rare. Every single thing Last Standing kills put together, like last-second kobes while other survivors were still in the sacrifice process, people getting downed right next to the gates and crawling out, wiggle-offs next to the gates because the survivor had too much wiggle progress or the hook was just a little too far, Adrenaline gambits, chases to hatch where the survivor gets downed right before hatch and manages to crawl that last meter? It's not that rare.
Even more importantly, those moments are intense when they do happen. You're killing off a portion of what made DBD actually exciting. I do not think a mori cinematic was worth everything this update upheaves.
Plus you still haven't addressed what I'm supposed to do against a load of infinite Unbreakable oak+saboteurs/bodyblockers, flashlighters/pallet crowders, and Flip-Flop Boil Overers in this new paradigm.
- When you are arguing that the new system shouldn't be in place because it prevents "lighthearted stuff" then your "stuff" is in fact making the endgame worse by not allowing the newer system to be implemented. When you force a choice between shortening boring endgames by a minute or more and the lack of slug races and photobombs then, yes, your photobombs and slug races are wrecking the endgame compared to what it could be.
- No, someone escaping after everybody is already downed is rare. You're greatly overestimating how often as a percentage of games people escape after everybody else is downed. I guarantee if you actually take a survey of random published games it only happens a small fraction of the time. And I'm not convinced you don't gain as many intense scenarios with the new system as you lose.
- As far as Unbreakable, etc, goes, I did address it, I said above and before that they will probably need to adjust the speed bonus on Unbreakable. The base game 45 seconds revive might be ok as is, if it could use a tweak it would just be a small increase. (Personally I think No Mither and Unbreakable should have their bonuses swapped, so No Mither becomes a 75%+ recovery speed increase while Unbreakable is a 25% increase. It just makes more sense for the perk with the huge disadvantage to have the significantly bigger bonus.)
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255700#Comment_3255700
Good for you, but why do you have to wreck the game for those of us that enjoy some lighthearted fun stuff? I'm definitely not alone in this.
I know we have comparable hours and I've seen Hail Mary hatches way more than a few times. To say nothing of survivors that get hit running out the exit gate but manage to crawl out before the killer can pick them up. It's not about 'the whole survivor team winning', it's about whether individual survivors escape.
I can't recall if I've seen the whole team 4E after being 4slugged, but I have seen survivors get everyone back up after a 4slug due to an Unbreakable at least three times.
Again, there are less disruptive ways to get rid of endgame cleanup and griefing. Even if I didn't give a fig about survivor gameplay or memes, bully squads alone are a solid reason why giving unlimited Unbreakable is a bad idea.
Why does your “lighthearted stuff” have to “wreck the game” for people playing normally? And I’m not alone in my opinion either.
And no, I’m 100% positive you are greatly overestimating how often last survivor standing hatch escapes actually happen. I guarantee if you went through a large sample of streamed games you would find only a small percentage of them where it happened.
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@egg_ said:
The chunk of progression removed when trying to self unhook is the necessary downside to the mechanic, otherwise there would be no reason not to try self unhooking yourself every time
I disagree that the lost progression is actually necessary, I don’t really think there’s a significant downside to letting people get three free chances to escape. It’s not needed to prevent facecamping because the main way to get off a hook is still going to be someone else doing a rescue after the killer leaves, not a self rescue, if there’s only a base 12% or so chance of it happening. And by removing the loss or progression from the system it gives Luck effects a needed buff.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/353024/i-think-i-should-play-more-luck-offerings
That last great skill you made, you should just have settled with a good one :P
But in all seriousness: this is why we should have a life update on our tome challenges and emblem points in the hud.
I am totally onboard with a small mission tracker in the upper right corner of the HUD showing current progress on your active rituals and tome challenge.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255636#Comment_3255636
Okay, but how many times have you seen something in live where Last Standing would have prevented it? I can't even count the number of times I've been left slugged and managed to reach the hatch, and that's just one possibility out of a dozen. PTB games aren't necessarily the best examples of gameplay because most players are trying out new things specifically.
To say nothing of losing my slug races and photobombs. What is the actual point of Ghostface's mori if a Kate can't run up and insert herself into the selfie?
I just think the whole update was way too disruptive to gameplay to facilitate a pointless and unnecessary change that didn't actually improve anything.
- I couldn’t care less about slug races and photobombs
- I’ve maybe seen a handful of times when everybody is downed and someone gets hatch. It’s very uncommon and I’d most definitely be totally happy sacrificing that to get rid of endgame cleanup in up to 1/3 to 1/2 of games where the killer clearly won.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255636#Comment_3255636
Yet I've experienced many games where someone escaped, that would have ended instantly under the new mori system.
I’ve seen a few games where one person escaped after using Unbreakable after everybody else was down. They’re not common at all and I’ve never seen a game that the survivors actually won after everybody was downed.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255581#Comment_3255581
Sure, it sped up cleanup, but it also caused deaths in many situations survivors either had a chance to escape or a guaranteed escape - something as simple as being hit out the gates, or something as complex as being slugged and having Flip-Flop, unbenownst to the killer. Or the ever-clipped hatch close Adrenaline plays. I wouldn't have liked it for that alone, to say nothing of the shitshow that's basekit Unbreakable and also making moris harder to access than before.
I never once saw a game from the PTB where Last Standing caused a killer to win a match they weren’t going to win without it.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255581#Comment_3255581
You say cleanup, I say an issue with how a slugged survivor is a pseudo Hook and a lack of meaningful "forfeit" with a Hatch mechanic that isn't just tied around being the Last Standing. (And I can't remember if when a Survivor is Last Standing, the Hatch opens or not, with the Mori Rework system, if not, like #########.)
Hatch opens in the Last Standing system same as always if only one survivor is alive.
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I’m down for a ninja killer. Or if not a full blown killer I could see a Ghost Face Ninja skin maybe being kind of cool looking.
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I liked the new system, it just needed a few tweaks on the bonuses for Unbreakable and maybe a minor adjustment or two on some other bits. But overall I liked how it shaved off up to a minute of boring cleanup in games the killer had virtually 100% already won.
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As an alternative to this idea, they could make everything on all your characters totally unlocked for custom matches and then you only need bloodpoints and such to unlock things in the full game. This would have the added benefit of meaning you could more easily fully test things in custom matches on the PTB as well when that’s in effect.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
No.
This is not a singleplayer game after all and no bots, even if you buff their AI a lot, would replace it. Bots are there when you want to test something or when you just want to turn off for a bit and have easy game(s) without stress. It should not be the main way to play the game.
If bots were fun enough to play against it could be a decent single player game.
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I could see an Elvis Impersonator costume for Ash or Ace. Not actual Elvis as a survivor though.