dugman
dugman
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@jesterkind said:
They mean as transparent as possible with the development, not with the mechanic itself. There's no real reason to show people their MMR, that wouldn't really achieve anything beyond satisfying idle curiosity.
Though, I agree, seeing more about how it functions regarding disconnecting would be a very helpful bit of info. That'd help contextualise how the changes will affect it- hopefully they'll be more open about that when they've got more to share about how they're making those changes.
To clarify, there's no particular reason to show MMR like you said, but there's also even less reason to show opponent's grades since they're not used at all in the matchmaking and just cause confusion. One of the devs last month even asked on the forum if people thought they should remove opponent Grades from the endgame screen and the overwhelming response was Yes. So hopefully that's something in the works.
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Seeing survivors when phasing would be totally broken. (And I say that as a killer main.)
I'm not a Spirit main (I'm like you, I play a few games a night with whatever killer I have a mission for.) But I do know the consensus among the streamers I tend to agree with is Spirit is still quite good. OhTofu for instance just put out his killer tier list based on how good they are at top level play and still has Spirit as S Tier despite survivors being able to hear her. Basically even though they can hear her she has terrific speed and can use that to do mindgames at loops while phased, similar to how you can mindgame normally but at much higher movement rate and invisible. Her speed alone while phased keeps her quite viable. (Plus she has some pretty solid add-ons.)
All that being said, I do think they should tweak Iron Will a bit to be 90% reduction instead of 100%. 100% just feels like it's slightly broken, and it completely nullifies Stridor as well which adds insult to injury. At 90% it would still be really hard to hear, but not impossible, and Stridor would be able to amplify it a bit.
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I only play killer and I'm not sure the new beta changes will make a difference to me. 🤷♂️
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They already also mentioned a bunch of matchmaking changes toward preventing mismatches from backfills and brand new players starting with too high a rating.
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@The_C12H15NO2 said:
So they acknowledge killers have a much harder time against swf, but then decide to buff solo q closer to swf? Prepare to have much longer q times as survivor after this launches. more killers will leave.
I disagree, I’m a killer main and I’ve said for a long time that the best way to even the playing field between solo and swf opponents is to give the solo players info similar to what swfs get naturally on comms. From my perspective it can help make matches less swingy between when I face solo survivors and swfs which I’m all for. 🙂 Worst case the change increases survivor escape rates a bit too much and then all they have to do is slightly increase the time it takes to repair generators to compensate.
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@doitagain_ said:
QoL changes are nice but hoping we get some actual content in the midchapter like map reworks or something.
Otherwise it’s gonna be a really boring ptb…
Mikaela’s balance pass is about due, I have a feeling we’ll be seeing Circle of Healing or Boons in general mentioned in Part 2.
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Circle of Healing is generally considered overpowered. Since Mikaela’s balance pass is about due I suspect we might see a change to Circle of Healing or maybe Boons in Part 2 of the Developer Update tomorrow.
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@AnObserver said:
I'm totally supportive of this change, but I'm guessing it's going to royally piss off Killer mains with how Survivor focused the New Year Dev Update is.
I mean hell, Survivors get to know what other Survivors are doing, but Killers still don't get a Hook tracker for each Survivor?
I’m a killer main and I’ve been suggesting the solo survivor buffs and talking about exactly what they did regarding mismatches in this patch so I’m extremely happy with Part 1. 🙂 Worst case the survivors get a bit of a boost from the icons, if it turns out to be a little much overall they can just slow gens down slightly to compensate. The upside for me as a killer is matches maybe feeling a bit more even between solo opponents and swf opponents.
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@Munqaxus said:
Now, instead of wiggling your controller stick, or mashing a button on PC, you can simply hit Skill Checks to wiggle. This is definitely a good accessibility feature and definitely something I'll enjoy!
This is actually one that I'm a bit worried about. If you only wiggle when a skill check appears, then that could nerf wiggle-related perks, that are already weak to begin with: Flip-Flop, Boil Over, Sabotage and Power Struggle.
I’m not worried about that, they’ll probably just have the wiggle checks move the bar up about the same amount per second on average that you get from spamming the wiggle keys. Those perks then would still work just as well as they currently do assuming they still increase the wiggle process the same proportional amount.
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I don’t have a problem with RPD personally. Yeah I get a little confused sometimes in it but I like the map well enough, the pallets are mostly gameable and it has a good look to it. Likewise Haddenfield is strong for survivors but not to the extent that it’s worth taking it out of rotation entirely.
That being said I would be in favor of removing all map offerings from the game. Map offerings greatly exacerbate any imbalances in the maps by allowing players to use skewed maps over and over. It also somewhat reduces the map variety people get to experience at higher level since only a couple of map offerings are typically chosen. Doing away with map offerings at least reduces the number of times possibly skewed maps appear. I think the benefit of map offerings is kind if minimal compared to the annoyance they cause.
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I agree that everything in part 1 of this update sounds like a good development. I’ve said for a long time the best way to even the playing field between solos and swfs is to give solos some extra in game information that swfs get naturally from being on comms. Worst case if this somehow made survivors as a whole escape a bit too often they can simply slightly increase the time it takes to complete gens to compensate.
They also acknowledged what I’ve been saying was the main causes of mismatches, namely backfills, long waits for outlier MMR players, and brand new players having an average or slightly below average rating to start. All the changes they outlined should help in that regard.
And I like the Wiggle change, it’s a natural extension of what they did for second hooks.
Plus this is just part 1. I’m guessing Part 2 could include their first balance pass at Mikaela’s perks including Circle of Healing and maybe Boons in general. If I had to guess I think they’d slow CoH down but leave Shadowstep and Clairvoyance pretty much the same. I don’t think they’ll change how Boons are placed or replaced unless they somehow determined the system as a whole is causing an issue versus just the one CoH perk.
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Yeah, a built in emote system to let solos manually select an icon for what they’re doing could be useful. I doubt they’d go with actual voiced emotes though, recording “I’m going for a rescue” for every survivor would be kind of a pain in the ass to do.
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Yeah I’ve said for a long time the best way to balance solos against swfs is to buff the solo players a bit to even the playing field. I’m guessing the icons they’re talking about will show a gen, a totem, a locker, a medical symbol or someone running, something like that. It could be pretty useful information since you can tell at a glance if someone else is possibly going for a rescue or if all the other survivors are actively woking on gens or being chased and you might need to do be the rescuer.
As far as fostering the toxicity of our city (of our city) I think players who are rude to their teammates after dying will be rude regardless of the existence of the icons. Being a sore loser has nothing to do with the HUD and a jerk will rationalize lashing out however they like. I don’t think adding this in will exacerbate poor behaviour any more than not having the feature currently mitigates it.
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@TheMadCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727046#Comment_2727046
Probably the best way to keep the Killer away.
Nea doesn’t like fish?
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FYI OhTofu also rates Hag as high A tier on his new tier list this week. Otz isn’t the only big streamer who really likes Hag.
Like others said above, if you’re doing extended basic chases with Hag you’re playing her wrong. I highly recommend watching Michi play Hag or his extended Hag guide. There’s a lot of subtlety in placing the traps and knowing when to teleport and not to teleport and when to teleport immediately versus delay it a bit. You can do ok against average players placing traps haphazardly and spamming teleport, but the best Hags use more sophisticated techniques to help them beat swfs and players with flashlights, etc. Things like chain traps together so one goes off and then you get the hit on the second one, using the camera force of the trap to throw a runner off course, using traps to zone survivors out of pallets, delaying teleporting to correctly time a Make Your Choice hit on a rescue, having a sense of when people are watching you so you can put down a decoy when they’re looking and a more hidden trap when they’re not, and so on.
Hag basically has a surprisingly high skill ceiling, using her traps optimally takes a lot of game knowledge and awareness of what the survivors are doing or likely going to do. It’s that skill ceiling that gets her toward the top of Otz’s and OhTofu’s lists. (OhTofu put her at the top of A tier, not in S tier with Nurse and Blight, mainly because the current Circle of Healing meta weakened her slightly. If that weren’t a factor I think he’d have put her in S tier.)
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@Mandy said:
I think it was the ordering of the lockers that did it...
He did microwave the fish in the locker that one time… 🤢
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I never really got why most of these “basic attack only” perks didn’t work for special attacks. I’m sure the devs have a reason, I just don’t know what it is exactly. I can see why maybe the Exposed condition should only work for basic attacks, but is it actually overpowered if Sloppy Butcher lets Victor or Huntress or even Trickster inflict Mangled or Blindness?
Speaking Trickster, I could see an argument that these perks should only apply their effect when they inflict a damage level. So a single Trickster dagger probably shouldn’t inflict Mangled or Blindness, but the dagger hits which pass the threshold to actually injure or down someone could.
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I think Mikaela’s balance pass might be this midchapter, they typically do tweaks on new characters about three months after they’re released. So whatever they may or may not do to tweak Circle of Healing or Boons in general might be this PTB. My guess is they tone down CoH but who knows? 🤷♂️
The devs also mentioned a while back that they had been tinkering with a Legion change, midchapters are a likely place to see that sort of thing since they have so much else going on in the full chapters with new killers. No idea if they’re actually still working on Legion or not but if they have been then this seems like about the time they might release it.
Finally one of the devs asked in the forums a month or two ago if they should remove the opponents’ grades from the endgame scoring screen since they confuse a lot of players who think they’re used for matchmaking. The overwhelming reply was Yes, so hopefully they’re following up on that. If so that might be this midchapter, but it also might be next chapter depending on how long it takes to make that change. (They probably also have to decide for instance if they want to replace enemy Grades with something like a rough MMR indicator or just leave those symbols blank or replace them with something else entirely like the avatar icons of the characters, etc.)
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The game is much worse with the DC penalty off than when its on for all the reasons people said above.
That said I do think the game should have a timer where if no additional scoring events happen for about five minutes then the endgame collapse starts or even the game is just ended. That would address situations where the game is indefinitely stalled in various ways, like a killer blocking the last survivor from moving or a cheater being afk and invulnerable to damage or the last two survivors just crouching and hiding in remote areas or lockers to make the game last much, much longer.
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@xxshyguyxx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723082#Comment_2723082
And? I shouldn't be forced to use the same perks to try and win. If killer were even remotely balanced, I should go in with no perks and still have a chance at a kill at least.
Base killer gameplays show the true flaws of m1 killers. Go in with no gen slow down and watch how fast it goes.
Then go in with gen slow down and see how little difference it makes once ruin goes In 45 to a min, and pop isn't used more than 3 or 4 times bc getting hooks is hard to do at higher mmr. Lol
Perks help, but the difference isn't as drastic as you think when it comes to gen regression builds.
People say slow gens, or tunnel out somebody is the only way to prolong the game to give the killer a true shot.
That or luck and survivor mistskes.
Why would you expect to be on par with survivors who not only play well but also use solid loadouts if you yourself aren’t equipping a solid loadout? Nobody is forcing you to use anything you don’t want to use but it’s unreasonable to think that just using random loadouts is going to be as effective as using well thought out ones that help synergize your path to victory.
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Dead Hard is so good the devs could literally remove its invulnerability entirely and players who like it would still use Dead Hard for the burst of distance alone. Think about it, they could take out one of the two major features of that perk and it would still be really solid, that’s how good that perk is.
On the killer side… I’m not sure. Some people would say NOED is the strongest killer perk, and while I think it’s good I’m not sure it’s literally the best one. It’s in the running though. No Way Out is seeing a lot of use now, it’s pretty solid. Corrupt Intervention is also popular, although personally I tend to avoid using it since it tends to make the beginning a little boring if the survivors just hide.
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I don’t know how good or bad Michael is, but I do think he has the most fun play style changing add-ons (Vanity and Scratch Mirror, Tombstones and Infinite Evil). I’m not a fan of his base kit really but his alternate playstyles are pretty sweet. 🙂
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I tend to agree Dead Hard is probably nerf worthy, it’s the most popular exhaustion perk by a wide margin and one of the top two or three most popular perks overall (up there with Borrowed Time). The reason is because it has not one but two good effects - the lunge for distance and also invulnerability to attack. Now that the perk is working properly because of hit validation the invulnerability is actually a reliable way to force a miss. And the lunge for distance is by itself enough for a lot of the people who use Dead Hard to equip it. I did a poll last month and all the players who said that they use Dead Hard regularly said they would still use Dead Hard even if you could be damaged while lunging with it.
So basically they could literally take out the invulnerability entirely and just have Dead Hard be a way to gain a burst of distance but one where can still be hit and people who like Dead Hard now would still probably use it. That’s how powerful the current version is - you can take away one of its two primary effects and it’d still be widely used.
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DbD is not that “buggy” as far as the things to check for. And if a hacker somehow managed to frame another person to look like a cheater, that’s why the game replay file would be automatically saved for customer service review.
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Still watching the video, but one thing I don't understand is he put Deathslinger above Huntress. I just don't see how you can objectively consider Deathslinger better than Huntress. The only advantage he has that I can think of is his shot hitbox is small so a really, really good Deathslinger can shoot throw cracks for possible crazy hits sometimes, maybe. ... But that's it, Huntress is as good or better in every other way I can think of.
- Huntress always does damage on a hit. Deathslinger can often hit an injured survivor and, if they happen to be across a pallet, not get the down. Or can hit a survivor and because of bad terrain or another survivor bodyblocking not get the down. The fact he doesn't get a guaranteed down on a hit is pretty significant.
- Huntress' damage is instantaneous. Deathslinger's damage takes an additional 4-6 seconds most of the time every single time. That adds up, especially where he's a 110% movement killer with no map traversal.
- Deathslinger and Huntress' reloads are kind of a wash. Deathslinger doesn't have to go to lockers but does have to reload after every shot. Huntress gets more shots before reloading but going to a locker takes a bit longer than Deathslinger's reload.
Am I overlooking something? Deathslinger just seems like a slightly weaker version of Huntress basically.
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@Akumakaji said:
@dugman you got some pretty awesome ideas.
I especially like the Quiet Place and Final Destination.
Quiet place could work a bit like Spirit, ie you see the grayed out world without survivors, but walking around and especially running or any rushed actions will send noticeable waves out and color the world around them, including survivors. Playing the killer will introduce a few tin buckets and noisy "traps" on the map that can be used to send out fake positives or stun the killer if he stands right next yo one of these.
One idea of mine would be
Re-Animator or classic Necromancer. He can summon and direkt Zombies, but can't directly damage a survivor with his sacrificial dagger/puss syringe, unless a zombie holds the survivor in its sleeper hold.
The second ability would be some kind of ranged debuff like a curse, maybe this hinders the survivor or attracts all zombies on the map to them, but therefore lessening the pressure on the other survivors.
- That's a pretty interesting thought on Quiet Place. One way to kind of fit it into the existing system a bit is the Creature sees survivor's auras within a radius of itself based on how much noise they're making. The more noise they make the farther away the Creature can see the survivor's aura. They similarly could have an innate sense of the progress of the generators based on the sound since louder generators make more noise. Add in a Lunge like Demogorgon's and maybe some sort of out of chase style sprint for map traversal and it's sounding pretty good maybe! 😄 (No pun intended.)
- It's funny, I actually thought about Re-Animator when I was thinking about licenses, but I couldn't really think of a way to do it. Nemesis kind of has zombies already, and they're ok for scouting but not really much of a threat beyond that. If you want a true pet based killer they'd have to be significantly smarter and faster or whatever. I guess if they ever get around top putting in bots like they have in DbD Mobile then maybe they could use a variant of the bot AI for a pet killer too, kill two birds with one stone so to speak.
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Removing Dead Hard is overkill. It could possibly stand a nerf though, I could see it losing its invulnerability frames and still being used for example. (I did a poll last month and almost all the people who use Dead Hard regularly said they'd still use it just for the lunge distance it gives even if they could take damage during it.)
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I won't be surprised if the anniversary has a big license reveal, that's usually how it works. Could be anybody, but the three or four top contenders I can think of might be
- Alien - This would be a huge license to get, and would be a great replacement for Demogorgon to fill the animalistic predatory humanoid carnivorous killer
- Jason - It's no secret they actively want this license, and now that the IP is apparently freed up a bit who knows?
- Pennywise - Again, a big license to get and one I think they'd love to have. It's not clear how he'd work mechanically, but there are plenty of ideas out there on it so it's far from an insurmountable obstacle.
- Springtrap from Five Nights at Freddy's - I've never played the game, but I know there's a really loyal group of fans who want this killer in the game. And it's certainly a popular video game license.
Some other licenses that I think would be fun but I'm skeptical would be picked up
- Chucky - Chucky is a great bad guy, but I just don't know how they'd do it mechanically. Victor is in the ballpark of a really tiny killer, with Chucky it would be playing as Victor all the time. They'd have to work up new hook animations or something, since obviously he can't hook people using the usual animation, and I have no idea what his ability would actually be. 🤷♂️ If he shows up, great! But I have trouble seeing how.
- Phantasm - The Tall Man from Phantasm who runs the mortuary with sinister steel flying pinballs of doom. He's be a great killer in this game, he's got the look and an ability that fits right in mechanically. And he's a cult film fan favorite. I can maybe see him maybe getting picked up someday, but Phantasm just isn't a big enough title I don't think for an anniversary release.
- Final Destination - This one is a pipe dream of mine. Play a "killer" which is actually an invisible avatar that is capable of manipulating the environment and props to kill survivors. It would be a tough construction mechanically so I doubt it would ever happen, but boy could it be fun if they figured out a way to do this type of killer!
- Supernatural - This is an IP I'd love to see in the game. Winchesters as survivors, a Demon as a killer, The Bunker as a map. The thing is I suspect that if the license holders were interested in cutting a deal with DbD they might have done it already, the show was actually still on the air when DbD came out and they had plenty of time to work it out. Now that it's off the air and there's no particular buzz for the show I'm sadly doubtful it would ever get picked up. 🙁
- The Thing - A shapeshifting killer that can mimic survivors and do really creepy attacks, etc, could be pretty cool. Mimicking a survivor on its own sounds like something a swf would defeat, but when you consider that being a mimic implies persistent Undetectability (because obviously you have no red stain or terror radius while disguised as a survivor) that alone would give the killer a nice effect to play with. Basically that's half of Ghostface's kit all on its own! They'd just need to find something else as a good secondary ability to beef the killer up. Either way, though, the chances of the license being picked up are already a bit slim, and then top it off with questions of how to do it justice mechanically and I don't see it happening. (But I still hold out hope for a mimic killer someday, albeit maybe an original one!)
- Jeepers Creepers - The killer could fit in well, but I hear that IP is a legal nightmare. Seriously doubt it will ever happen.
- Slender Man - I could see this being picked up someday maybe? I don't know how big a name it is as a license.
- Candyman - They've had a few opportunities to pick up Candyman and it hasn't happened so far. And they missed the window with the Candyman film in 2021, that would have been the optimal time to do a deal with that character.
- A Quiet Place - Another contender to replace Demogorgon, the aliens from A Quiet Place definitely fit the part in terms of their look and theme. Seems like it would be a longshot to get the license though maybe.
- Dracula - Dracula or any similar vampire killer could be cool. That being said, it feels like if they had wanted a vampire they would have done one already, they certainly wouldn't need the Dracula license from Universal to do it.
- Carrie - I could almost see Carrie being in this game. She sort of fits the same broad theme as Spirit, a young woman who was wronged and is lashing out in anger. Telekinetic attacks obviously would be the mechanic. Could be interesting but feels like a long shot as a license.
- Evil Dead - They've already got Ash from Evil Dead, so they have an in. But who would the killer be? A generic zombie or whatever wouldn't cut it. And I don't even remember who the recurring bad guy from the show would be (Lucy Lawless I think was a heavy?) Also I suspect if they were going to do an Evil Dead related killer they would have done it simultaneously with Ash.
- Dead Silence - Or really any evil ventriloquist and their dummy. The Twins already kind of fill this genre though, even if Victor isn't dressed in a tuxedo. 🤷♂️
- Predator - Certainly fits the bill in terms of hunting people down as trophies. Seems pretty overpowered as a killer though for the theme, if they ever brought him in the Entity would have to clip his claws a bit.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
CoH counters him, and personally he is extremely overrated.
Wait, how does CoH counter Oni? His whole ability revolves around getting a few hits then getting instant downs. Instant downs are a direct counter to Circle of Healing, it doesn’t matter if you can heal to full health if the killer instant downs you afterward. At best healed survivors bleed less, but Oni gets a lot of blood directly from hits on healthy people as well.
I just don’t necessarily see Oni being weaker than normal due to CoH. I suspect Circle of Healing hurts killers without instant downs more than ones that have them.
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@ShameOnYou said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702886#Comment_2702886
not when ADA is in place. The UI Hud designer focused on just one disability, the colored blind players when all other disabilities were forgotten. Thia is an algorithm issue/
Just FYI the ADA doesn’t apply in general to video games, it applies more to employment and public accommodations and facilities and communications. The closest thing that appears to apply to video games is the Communications Act which the FCC has ruled means that if a game provides communications like ingame chat or messaging then it needs to have appropriate accommodations for the disabled to be able to use those features.
That’s not to say providing support to the disabled isn’t a good thing to do of course. I’m just saying the ADA itself doesn’t have legal requirements for video games from what I can tell.
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725548#Comment_2725548
But it is a bit better than the 1 v 1 chains.
The chains are horrible to land and has a lot of counter play on the survivor side. It's a high risk low reward for Pinhead. You miss it you lose a LOT of distance and if you land it you can MAYBE get a hit which isn't even a guarantee lol. Clown is more consistent in this area. Also I don't think people realize how cheesy this is throw a bottle on pallet and you die either way unless it's an extremely safe pallet.
I agree that Clown needs some buffs but this ain't it.
The pink gas is better than the chain in some ways, but not in others. I think you’re overestimating how hard it is to hit with the chain for one thing, I find it easier to hit with the chain than with Deathslinger for instance. And at pallets chains force very slow vaults while gas doesn’t. (The gas I think prevents fast vaults but doesn’t cause slow vaults.) So if you can hit someone with a chain prior to vaulting a pallet it can be a guaranteed hit, whereas the pink gas it might not be.
Clown is better in the open that Pinhead 1v1, and Clown can zone people out of a loop a bit better. Pinhead can actually stop a vault entirely so in those situations his ability is better, as well as that he can use his ability through walls.
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@Pizzasauce said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725502#Comment_2725502
Oh, yeah. Forgot about that.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725527#Comment_2725527
Well, kind of, yeah. I wanted to talk about this in my other thread about a match I got where it was a bronze up against 4 iridescent. I'm aware grades and mmr have nothing to do with eachother, but if they mean nothing, then what's the point of having them there? Because 4 iri vs. 1 bronze looks like it would be a severe beat down, despite the matchmaking, if the grades were actually based on skill. It's just pointless and I'm salty.
Opponent’s grades aren’t totally nothing, grades reflect recent playtime and more playtime is correlated with higher skill. It’s just not as strong a link as some people think.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725378#Comment_2725378
You are winning your games by forcing a stalemate and hoping the other side gives up first. What's going to happen is that your MMR is going to inflate and you'll be up against survivors who'll run rings around you, and you'll be having no fun.
Accept that you'll have to take a few losses as you learn how to chase, play games out (just...turn postgame chat off) and focus on the fundamentals. Eventually your MMR will stabilize at a region where you'll find your stride.
Actually what’s more likely to happen is eventually he’ll become better at catching the really good runners in chase more efficiently and break the stalemate that way. Using a 3-gen strategy is a good tactic, the only reason the matches are taking so long is he’s not quite good enough in the chases he gets to get the down quickly.
Also the perk choice of Overcharge and Unnerving probably isn’t helping in the early game against survivors who can still make those skill checks. Eventually switching to different perks could maybe help get the downs more quickly as well or add enough extra slowdown to give him more time to leave the 3-gen for a down.
Just speculating though.
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@Ghoste said:
They have given Killer QoL improvements. Hatch nerf for example. DS and OoO were also nerfed this year. I find Killer way less stressful after these changes. Circle of Healing is busted though.
Mikaela’s balance pass should be coming up soon, maybe this coming midchapter. Whatever the devs do with Circle of Healing would be in that.
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@Myla said:
Too op. You're talking about Pinhead who has to accurately lands his janky chain and a Clown who can just spam his bottle at the pallet side lol.
But keep in mind Pinhead has other abilities besides his 1v1 chain. Clown only has his bottles, that’s it, so his bottles should in principle be a bit better than the 1v1 chains.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725525#Comment_2725525
So in summary according to you I have such a high mmr that it matches me with new players. That's a bad system that needs to be fixed instead of defended.
I was getting better matches before where killers actually got 2e/2k in most of my matches instead of now where it's either a 4e or 4k every match because it's going for overall killer average of 2e/2k.
That’s a pretty terrible summary of what I said.
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I would guess the average is probably about the same as the general average for video games in general which is 18-34. Technically the game has a mature rating so it probably skews out some of the really young crowd with some parents not buying it for their preteen kids. But kids around college age will buy what they want to play regardless.
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Nope, I get better matches under the current MMR.
Tru3 is a good player but I stopped watching him because he’s a constant complainer. Some of his complaints are valid, others are just sore losing or general grumpiness or whatever, but it made his videos pretty unbearable after a while.
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@cantelope said:
Every 13th your rank awards you bp before being reset. Thats its purpose.
To clarify, I think the original post is asking more about why we see opponent’s grades. Your own grade is relevant because of the bloodpoint award each month, but opponent’s grades are irrelevant and could be removed from the endgame screen. (In fact one of the devs commented last month asking for feedback on whether they should remove opponent’s grades so it’s definitely something they’re working on or considering.)
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@bm33 said:
Kills/escapes isn't a good metric, there needs to be more nuance. What we have right now just feels like the old rainbow ranks but worse. Honestly as SBMM has gone on it has felt less and less like it's actually doing anything at all. SBMM just feels like they are picking the killer and 4 survivors that started looking for a match at the same time, no other criteria except hit ready at 12:01 so put them all in a lobby. Also doesn't feel good that for mmr no matter how you play in a match it only matters if you die/escape.
Old rank system wasn't perfect but it was better than this. If I spent a match doing my best I would atleast safety pip - my odds of having a good team the next round were decent. Unless matchmaking was being funky giving me rainbow ranks I generally was with others who weren't new and if they were red/purple like me they weren't as likely to be potatoes - it happened but not every game like it is now. Now I can carry my team and double pip but die and everything in the match doesn't matter - next round I just get random mishmash of teammates that would be equivalent to the old rank system. I could escape and it doesn't matter, I'm still getting mishmash of teammates. Very often my matches feel like 2v1 instead of 4v1 because it's only my swf teammate and I doing anything while our randoms are hiding not doing anything.
SBMM is not protecting new players from being paired against veteran players, if anything I see way more new players now than I ever saw in the old rank system. I can't see playtime on ps4, only trophies to get a sense of how new a player is. So often it will be a player that has only earned maybe one or two trophies against players that have nearly all the trophies. That's not OK. Not only does the new player get destroyed by veteran player but as survivor they are bringing down the team.
There's also the issue I've been running into where I'm having multiple back to back games with killers. I'm in a 2swf so we have to wait until the other dies/escapes to move onto next match. First match could go well or everyone dies/one of us gets hatch. General the way it goes for the following match is one of us will get tunneled out when we realize it's the same killer we already faced. Killer goes after a random before next tunneling out teammate and then gets last player not long after or they get hatch. We basically insta queue into new lobby with that killer and this happens multiple matches in a row. We can't dodge because we can't see the killer but killer is psyched because they know 2 of the survivors load outs and how to counter - they know we don't run DS so no worries about downing us immediately after unhook. You'd think the killer "winning" and us "losing" (or vice versa based on first match) would move our MMR away from eachother so we don't get matched together but nope. One day I had 5/6 matches against same killer. Now if it's 2 I go play something else because it's not fun playing against same killer. As killer I've noticed the same thing, I'll get same survivor in back to back matches no matter if I 4k or let everyone escape - I dodge so they can play against someone else. Old rank system I got same killer in one back to back match on occasion - now it's every game session and multiple back to back matches which signals to my swf teammate and I to move onto a different game.
You having an outlier MMR (I’m assuming you have a high rating) implies there aren’t that many other players with MMR close to yours in queue at a given moment. So it shouldn’t be surprising if you tend to see the same person multiple times if they have a high rating like yours. That this apparently didn’t happen in the old system in fact indicates the old system was actually making even more mismatches than the current one in that regard because it was probably giving you weaker opponents than you on average most of the time.
Also as far as brand new players go I think the system starts them out at an average or below average MMR and shifts them up or down more quickly in the beginning as they win or lose (mostly lose if they’re actually new players versus old players with a new account). Combine that with high rated players having to be eventually put into “next available game” slots when there isn’t a good matchup for them and you get a situation where a brand new player is in a match with an outlier high rated player.
Basically it kind of boils down to the MMR itself is probably accurate for everybody but brand new players, and people who are more or less in the median MMR brackets will tend to get the best matchups because the system will have the best chance of having enough of them to fill a match. It’s the players at the tails of being really high or really low MMR that get the worst matchups because they’re getting into “next avaialble” matches more often.
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I suspect the draw of skins is it allows players to determine how they want to project themselves to the world. If I pick the Minotaur skin for Oni, it’s because that’s how I want to be perceived by other people, not so much because I need to see my Minotaur running around.
It’s kind of like how you comb your hair and pick your clothes a certain way even though you can’t actually see it unless you look in a mirror. You know what it looks like and you want to project that image to other people. You probably don’t go around all the time taking requests from other people telling you what they want to see you wearing.
So skins are a form of personal expression and empowerment. Survivors deciding what you should look like defeats that purpose.
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It might be that he’s hard to play well without regular practice. I like Oni for example but I’m terrible with him because I don’t play him that often (I just play whoever I have a daily mission for each night so I play everybody equally infrequently.) So he’s a little harder to get into. Also he’s not as powerful as some other killers at the top end either. He’s not bad, but Blight and Nurse are better for instance for people willing to take time to play one killer regularly.
And finally keep in mind there are almost 30 killers at this point, so the average pick rate for killer is only about 1/30 games. Some are picked more often, some less, but the average is just 1 divided by the number of killers. A killer has to be super popular to have much more than that pick rate, so even if Oni were average or a little above average you wouldn’t see him that often. And of course people doing daily missions (like me) only play him for missions about 1 in 30 games.
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I think I agree with some replies above that Blight is probably the best killer to date in terms of combination of balance and how fun they are to play and play against. There’s very few complaints about Blight relatively speaking from either killers or survivors in terms of his base abilities, other than maybe how popular he is (“I see him all the time, I wish I saw other killers”) or how he slides off some terrain on certain maps sometimes.
Artist is a solid killer, I don’t think she’s that unpopular, but I do see complaints about games with her being “boring” because survivors want to be able to play loops against her but have a really hard time doing it. She’s not more powerful than Blight overall, in fact she’s probably a bit weaker, but she’s not as popular among both survivors and killers in terms of fun factor is the impression I get. She’s fun enough, but not the most fun.
So probably one of the better designed killers overall, but Blight is still maybe the best.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724803#Comment_2724803
I have seen the argument about ranked mode splitting the playerbase and therefore increasing the que times a lot but I dont agree with that cuz many other games have exactly this and still are doing just fine with que times. Best example hearthstone, Blizzard already implemented 3 new entire game modes and 2 new types of ranked mode for the classic hearthstone and you still have barely any issues finding lobbys, I still need just 1-2min to find a lobby (the que times where always around this).
I dont think the climb mechanic is too hard to add, it is basicly a different type of a window, we have already a lot of spots on our current maps where this could be added for example the docks on the swamp, the water tower in mac millain can be used for that as a platform, the new map has those fancy new pits etc. Completly new tiles can be made and added to fill dead zones on current maps aswell.
I really dislike the idea of adding such mechanics only as perks, the reason why I suggested the rebuild mechanic is so survivors have a new way to "harm" the killer instead of just slamming gens. If coordinated well you can make some interesting plays with this without making the life of the killer too difficult since to break a wall its just a small break animation. Also keep in mind that finding those piles and running to the wall and rebuilding requires a lot of time.
Its actually the other way around, you find dull totems with that easier, since you see every few meters after every jungle gym, loop or tile a small pile that you can uncover. I personally am someone who loves to play with circle of healing and on some maps I do struggle finding dull totems, especially when my random teammates are destroying them, on indoor maps or other maps like the new map that have a lot of spots it can be quiete tricky finding some totems, especially newer players do struggle a lot finding totems.
Hearthstone and DbD are different in a couple of ways
- Hearthstone has a larger playerbase. The estimates in Q2 2021 were Hearthstone had about a 200k concurrent player count, DbD’s average concurrent player count is around 50-60k
- Hearthstone only needs two players per match (or even just one person for the solo matches). DbD needs 5 players per match
Basically the smaller the pool of players and the more players you need per game the more impact you could have splitting the playerbase between multiple modes.
Also you have to consider if a competitive mode would bring in additional players and drive business. Adding a competitive mode is a big development project, if it doesn’t drive additional business then Behaviour is just spending a ton of money and time on something that just kind of shifts its existing players around a bit, or even maybe drives some people off if it negatively impacted queue times. There might be ways to monetize the mode like Hearthstone monetizes its Ranked mode by holding official tournaments? Other than that the mode I’m not sure how that mode on its own would do much.
Just as a comparison, for instance, adding a solo or cooperative mode might hypothetically bring in players who don’t currently play the game because they don’t like PVP games but do like PvE games. I know DbD Mobile has the ability to play custom matches against bots for example, and I’ve seen posts here requesting a game mode that lets you play against bots. I could see that sort of mode bringing in additional new players possibly because it’s new player friendly and also tempting for the PvE crowd. Whereas a ranked competitive mode is more something for hardcore veterans, maybe it helps with long term retention? Hard to say.
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I don't know how good or bad he is but I don't enjoy playing him as much because his turning speed feels really, really slow while aiming. If they increase his turning rate while aiming I'd like playing him more for sure.
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I haven't seen any evidence that Bubba is overpowered. He's great in a chase, and he's one of the only killers that can force a trade at a hook in the endgame if he gets rushed by survivors, but otherwise he has no map movement ability and no stealth to get close to survivors before a chase starts. My guess is he's above average but not "overpowered".
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Ignore grades, they're not used for matchmaking at all and they only indicate how much someone has played this last month. There's lots of people who are really good at the game but only play a match a day or something so their grade never gets that high. There's really good players who just haven't played the last couple weeks for whatever reason and so they're low grade when you see them. There's not so good players who just have a ton of free time and play the game a lot (I think this category includes a lot of kids who like the game but don't get the strategies for instance.) I was watching one red survivor on a stream a little while ago for example who was red grade but honestly they just weren't good at all. (I mean, they hit skill checks, but they didn't seem to know what they were doing beyond that. Didn't loop, weren't watching around while doing gens, were the first to die every game. They must play a lot to be red rank but I guess it just hadn't clicked yet what to really do?)
Don't get me wrong, there's a correlation where a red rank player has a decent chance of being really good. I'm just saying it's not as strong a link as you might think.
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In addition to what people are saying above about how if the game doesn't have someone close to your rating it eventually puts you in the next available match, it also I think has a thing where if a lobby has four people and one leaves then it grabs someone quickly to fill the spot so it doesn't have three or four people waiting a long time for that match to start.
Another thing is I think the first time you play a particular killer or play as survivor it starts you out at a kind of average rating. So new players don't actually start off with a really, really low rating, they're starting in the middle or below the middle somewhere. Then when they lose their rating goes down fairly quickly and after a few matches they're hopefully where they should be. So if your own rating happens to be around that starting spot then you could be seeing occasional new players from that. (I'm not 100% positive on this one, but I seem to remember something about new players starting roughly in the middle.)
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I'm with you that facecamping is boring, I hardly ever do it personally. If the survivors aren't coming to me I go to them, anything else is usually an inefficient use of my time.
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What exactly is "pallet camping" that it needs to be fixed? I'm not sure what the problem is you're worried about.