cogsturning
cogsturning
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@Ricardo170373 said:
This killer has an annoying power to use; constantly spinning around and looking behind and to the sides is awful. On top of that, it’s super inconsistent and difficult—and even though it’s strong, in a month this killer will be keeping The Twins company at the bottom of the playable roster.
This isn't the kind of game where someone wants to spend hours trying to figure out how a character works; it’s simply better to play as a simpler one. I’m not even going to buy it. It should have been an accessible Killer since it was created by the community, but they did the exact opposite—it shouldn't have been this complicated. It’s a disappointment.
That's a person by person thing though. Investing hours isn't exactly a huge ask in a community where you regularly see people with 5k+ hours. Sure, there's plenty of options if you don't want a challenge. If you want simple, you can play Wraith. If you want easy, you can play Ghoul. And some people want something new and with a satisfying learning ladder to climb, so here's Judgment. Not everyone is compelled towards with the path of least resistance.
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@NotAnotherDoctor said:
No way this wasn't written by an employee on a fake account 🤣
Sometimes people like things. Strange, but true.
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Best they can do is cut 5s off the basekit BT.
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Imagine
Vecna, but instead of tentacle touching people, you've got a blast of light from the Heavens😩 Don't hentai-ify my main please and thank you
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The new system already collected Data before it was in place, so it is not likely that this was due to the Matchmaking or it needing time to even out (or to me more precise: It should not happen like that). This is either a case of backfilling or some serious MMR-issue which goes far beyond it just not evened out yet.
I thought it would be preadjusted too but my games yesterday said otherwise. Either something is off with this system or it decided I belong in baby MMR because my session last night looked like this:
It's not uncommon for me to get like 2 hooks on Trickster's with Henry so this one was surreal. 88% KR for the night. Would have been higher but a few people got hatch. I had two people use Weaving Spiders, and three use No Mither, including this nonesense:
For comparsion, my last session I got stomped and had a 58% KR.
Like spreading hooks didn't even matter:
This was soloq and this killer had 30 hours:
It's only one session so I'll see how it goes again tonight but compared to the sweatfests I'm used to it was super weird. Like weirdest session I've had in months, maybe longer. It felt like event matchmaking.
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I didn't even think of this. They made tunneling easier than it was before the 15s buff. The killer doesn't even need to count to ten anymore.
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I can't tell you how many killer matches I have on this map where people either immediately DC or noise spam/run up to me to die. I actually don't know if I've ever lost here as killer.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111084#Comment_4111084
This sums it up perfectly. There will never be an incentive which makes Killers not tunnel. Sure, Killer Mains say that there should be more reasons to not tunnel, but in reality, we heard it time and time again that if X gets changed, there will be less tunneling. X got changed and Killers still tunneled, just better. You can remove all Pallets from the map and Killers would still tunnel. Exaggerated, yes, but true. If there would be an incentive to REALLY work against tunneling, it would have to be something insanely strong, because removing a player early is just insanely strong. Only incentives just does not work.
I also fully agree with the last part. If it is an early 3v1, there is no way for the Survivors to win, unless there is a serious skill difference between the Survivors and the Killer. And at this point, the Killer cannot lose so they just play to maximize their Bloodpoints, which resulsts in a drawn out match which the Survivors have to play out, without any way to win and without any form to shorten it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110953#Comment_4110953
For me it just results in liking both roles less. I dont play much Killer anymore, simply because I dont want to bother with the queuetimes. Usually I play Killer when I am alone and play Survivor with a friend of mine. But due to Survivor being miserable and the latest releases and events, Killer queues are just too long for me to bother, because while I can do something while waiting, I just want to play DBD. And my Survivor playtime also is lower, simply because I end the evenings earlier than before, because the game became just so much less enjoyable as Survivor.
And the worst part is simply that if I see lots of slugging or tunneling, it is almost exclusively done by Killers who dont need to do that. This for example was a recent game:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8HXA9GXV27RE/202608-7e4-jpg.jpg
People who defend slugging would say this was probably a Ghostface who needs to slug to win. In reality, it was a Blight and I did not bother at thisp oint. We were all slugged multiple times by then (seeing the Renato who already DCed) and the Blight would have slugged us again. So I just finished the Gen to let the Blight slug me, but he even waited with that.
And then people wonder why less Survivors play when things like that are far more common than they used to be. Simply because since BHVR botched their Anti-Tunnel and Anti-Slugging, even the last person on earth knows how strong those tactics are.
Oh same. When I play killer the queue is instant. I won't wait more than a minute. At other times I'll play survivor with friends. Otherwise I'm just not playing, and the state of the survivor experience has overall embittered me to the game more and more. I'm playing about half the amount of matches I used to. It's been kinda nice though. Instead of getting mad at this game I've been watching stuff and drawing. Hopefully I'll start reading again. Addiction to dbd has robbed me of my other hobbies for years and I'd like them back. I guess full discontent is the path.
Just in my last week of games I've got shots some like yours:
This Nurse hard tunneled the two dead players, slugged and BMed me, then BMed my teammate until I bled out.
These two got in the way of the tunnel so everyone got slugged.
So fair, so fun.
Then I go into killer:
Someone runs up to me to die at match start for whatever reason. Other two players slowly DC because I'm also getting fast downs. The Claudette is trapped in a match with two bots and a troll. Crazy thing is it took me some effort to get them to trust me. People are just that crappy. We had a nice little chat about how awful soloq is afterwards. Even the randos I meet outside of social media say the same stuff. This was just yesterday's example. It's endless.
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Info perks help a ton. Alert, Empathy, Deja Vu. I swore by Empathy for a long time. Knowing were my injured teammates were let me know where the killer was pretty much constantly. If no one was in chase on the HUD and injured people were sitting peacefully on gens I knew to be more aware.
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My experience has been similar. I want to like both roles; I want to play the whole game, not just half. But survivor is really awful. Last seesion I had by myself I played nine killer matches. Seven were 4ks. I switch to survivor and how does it go? Full cheese killers, throwing teammates, and matches decided a minute in. The contrast was really amazing. Then I come here and see killers whine about how hard it is and how they can't spread hooks and they have to slug and survivor is so soooooo strong and yet I kinda doubt they're losing most of their matches.
With killer, you lose one, you get mad, the emotional spikes are more intense, but then you win the next three and all is right with the world. Survivor has a cumulative misery effect that gets worse with each bad match, and bad match after bad match is so common in survivor (for me anyway).
I run Nurse's Calling on my main, which is getting buffed, and my biggest enemy is SB/Vigil, which is getting nerfed. Why on earth would I not play killer? There's literally not one thing on the horizon encouraging me to play survivor. Everything interesting or helpful for the role gets nerfed or canceled because of outcry.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109776#Comment_4109776
You’re the killer. You control the beam of light. You control how, when and where it’s fired.
I still don’t see how this makes her “harder,” just more honest. Survivors already had a ton of counterplay at range – if you’re aiming long‑distance beams you’re committing to a prediction shot on someone who can juke or LOS break. Making the beam more visible and adding a UI cue doesn’t change the fact that you, as Judgment, still decide where and when to fire; it just means survivors actually get clear feedback instead of getting deleted by something they could barely read.
Meanwhile you’re getting Killer Instinct on downs and near‑misses, which is huge for tracking and follow‑up pressure in chase. That’s a real buff to consistency, especially when people try to play super safe around corners and walls. Jason lost specific power interactions outright, but Judgment is still doing the exact same thing she was doing before, just with clearer info on both sides.
If the “main appeal” of a killer is that the other side can’t tell what’s happening, that’s not really healthy design.Yeah I agree. I recall when we were testing if you were in a building, near a wall, the beam just hit you with basically no warning. Killers shouldn't just be able to drop incounterable bombs by spamming beams at gens.
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I'm way too ADD to commit to three but these are what I currently have on my main's hook:
I'm a big Lovecraft fan so anything summoning Lovevcraft will get my love.
I also use these a lot:
Gotta rep my surv on my hooks.
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No, she's not bad at all. She's just going to be very niche and hard to master, but unstoppable with people who devote themselves to her.
Unless they overbuff her, of course, which is very possible.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109224#Comment_4109224
yeah I mean I completely disagree that you can’t sabotage in the normal gamemode, but this would essentially be hide and seek. The game would be completely different and so would the objective. The survivors are the hiders and the killer is the seeker. They could have it so that there’s like a point system, where you get more points for not being found longer, and for finding people faster, and everybody has to take a turn searching as the killer. If a survivor gets hit, they instantly spectate
It'd be a lot like My Little Oni then, since that was just death if you were found. This is the way more boring version though. Gens are how killers know where to search. That's the whole macro. A whole bunch of hiding and then you die if you're found? Nah, I'll pass. I'm down for a totally different mode and was hoping Lights Out would come back better than it left but this ain't it.
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@vol4r said:
Few reasons actually. It comes down to less survivior playing and more killers playing.
For me (reasons why I play survivor muuuuch less)
- Survivior is getting constantly nerfed because 1% swfs are better than killers
- Anti tunnel system scrapped, even tho it had amazing things for killer as basekit
- Flashbangs massively nerfed
- Pallets saves nerfed or bugged
- Only med-kits and toolboxes are viable
- You have to be efficient as a whole team to win the games, you can't mess around anymore
- very strong killers are being released, overtuned mostly
- Playing killer brings me more fun
- surviviors giving up or being in different skill level or just trolling
My friends also left dbd.
Our friend group went from 2-3 people waiting for a slot to be free to barely anyone playing.
They decided that dbd isn't fun or entertaining to them anymore. That's depressing if you ask me.I've had a lot of people come and go and it sucks, and trying to meet new people all the time is a drain. It really does bring you down after awhile.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109200#Comment_4109200
The win condition of this suggested game mode is to survive by yourself and not care about your teammates, if you sabotage them then after they are killed you automatically win.
Other games don't have any ways to sabotage other survivors, you can have bad teammates that sand bag you or something, you can play in swf do that to not happen.
I'm not sure why survivors would play a mode where they're meant to lose almost every match, or a mode that just involves creeping around for 15 minutes. Super exciting. Because being found sounds like it means being killed, and no one is running a 10 minute chase.
There's no way to sabotage your team currently? I'll remember that next time I get a 4k at 5 gens because someone loaded in to slam pallets or noise spam a vault. Or when someone tries to rat out someone else. You can currently throw pebbles at teammates to bring the killer to them just like what's being suggested here. People have said they do it in this forumm. Many have also said they use Bond to lead the killer to people and get them killed. There's plenty of sabotage in this game.
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I don't mind changing the objective but I don't really want to encourage survivors actively sabotaging one another. There's already enough of that in every other mode.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109163#Comment_4109163
And in a lot of situations you can't do anything as killer and on survivor side you can play in swf so those situations don't happen (nothing stops you from playing in swf) but on killer you are the responsible and it often feels unfair so that's where anxiety comes from for people as they can't rely on anything else because it's only them they "have to worry about" unlike on survivor side.
Playing in SWF doesn't make the problems go away. You can't control your teammates anymore there than you can in solo. People get frustrated and play suboptimally in SWF too. You just know what you're getting in parties, and you get people to commiserate with. Doesn't mean it'll go well. And personally, if this is about feelings, I feel less guilty slapping on anon mode and letting down strangers than I do about disappointing friends.
nothing stops you from playing in swf
Some things do stop people from playing in SWF. Some people have anxiety around social interactions. About talking on comms, about making friends in general. People hard devoted to video games aren't always the world's most social.
But if your view is that killer feels unfair than why stress so much about it? Isn't that the same mentality of blaming other survivors on your team?
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109149#Comment_4109149
and/or its the fact that they can explain the loss as survivor because there is three others too but with killer its them alone so if they lose it hits harder and there is nobody else to blame.
That's what I prefer about killer though: my situation is my responsibility alone. I don't want to be trapped in an unwinnable match because of someone else, nor do I want to be that one that fumbles it for the team. As killer I'm in control, and if I blow it or I'm outclassed it's only me I have to worry about.
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@ForTheEntity said:
At one point in 2023 I got severe killer anxiety and I had to change the way I played.
If I was trying to win and I was in a chase that was taking too long the anxiety would peak bad enough that I would have to stop playing mid-chase to calm down. I had bad hypertension at the time and might have been risking a stroke over a video game.
So now I go into my killer matches with a similar mindset that I go into survivor matches. I'm hoping to have some fun but the outcome of the match doesn't really matter to me. Games are just something to pass the time, winning isn't that important. Having fun is important.
If I am playing killer and I am in a chase where the survivor is taunting me, blinding me at every pallet or just looping me too well for too long I just leave the chase and look for better opportunities. Usually I'm playing Billy so the next survivor is just a chainsaw sprint away. If I am in a match where I am having a really rough go I'll just go for long chainsaw sprints or practice my power/farm deviousness if I am playing another killer. Once the last generator pops I'll open the gate and keeping practicing or go AFK until they leave, I don't give them the satisfaction and stack my own frustration by watching them teabag as I push them out. If I don't have the chatbox hidden (I usually don't) I click continue ASAP to get out of the post game screen to avoid crap in the chat.
I hope this helps.
This is a good attitude and I don't know why there are so many people who can not care about the outcome of their survivor matches but are unable to carry that view to killer. People feel like they have to win on killer, or that their supposed to, and that's the most detrimental mindset.
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Survivor-sided in theory, sure, but in practice? Not so much. The complete lack of proper matchmaking means there's usually at least one or two people on most survivor teams doing nothing but opening chests, cleansing totems, and crouching behind rocks, while others last 10s in chase. I clipped a chase I had against one killer last night that was a minute and thirty seconds long and went back to see what happened during it. Not one gen got done and the HUD had minimal activity. Doesn't matter how survivor-sided it is if you're mismatched with babies who aren't doing anything.
Meanwhile a lot of killers are duos on comms. My survivor matches have been almost all killer wins and my ER has been lower in 2v8 than it usually is in 1v4. Even "survivor-sided" I only slog through it because the 1v4 killer queue gets messed up. If that didn't happen I'd never touch the mode except to duo killer.
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My matches are 10-15 minutes when they're not stomps. Games aren't too fast, time-wise, they're just hyper efficient once you're out of the baby leagues. You can't really stop efficiency without base changes (which this community tends to resist) but even if you do it'll just shift to some other meta. People with thousands of hours are never going to start playing less efficiently. The less stressed experienced is for the new players.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108731#Comment_4108731
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108725#Comment_4108725
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108948#Comment_4108948
Stumbled across this while scrolling through shorts and reminded me of yall's convo. Not sure if its cuz of PWYW, but it does seem like some people just cant be bothered to run.
This a good example of both people not knowing the game and people throwing, and that's like the whole 2v8 experience. I've been one of the last standing in almost all my matches because the players are so insanely bad.
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Would you like a 60 minute queue for killer instead of a 20-40 minute one? The mode already appears to have fully random matchmaking and is full of trolls. There needs to be some appeal for survivor.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108719#Comment_4108719
Would still expect your SWF to do better with those hours. SWF I usually play with we have maybe 55% escape rate. We have 2 players with thousands of hours and then 2 with clearlt less hours. Other maybe around 500-700 hours and the least experienced has couple hundred of hours at best. We teach them to just slam gens as fast as possible and bring BNP:s when possible.
We do have bit more variety with the killers and their build but most has couple slow downs at least. Some hex build here and there. We do win a lot because killers play "fairly" instead employing tactics like tunneling and camping. Survivor experience overall seems to get worse each year with all the changes happening.
Couple years ago I had experienced swf sometimes and we won most games pretty easily even without comms. Last time I played with them it was more 50/50 still winning most games but clearly it was much more difficult. They are good players even able to beat streamer like lilith omen back in the day.
It might be the difference the lower hour players make in your matchmaking? The regular players in our group have 2k-8k hours. Killers we play against are consistently sweaty and the cheese is nonstop. When they aren't like that they're just skilled. It used to be more chill. We were able to go in and meme and charm killers or just goof off and do okay but that's been in the past for awhile now. Oh top of that, they're hella BMy. All this talk about survivor toxicity is lost on me when I'm getting humped and hit on hook for no reason every time I play.
Same thing for me on killer. The survivors I get generally run meta and are way better at the role than I am, and I have to sweat every win that isn't from someone throwing. But both my KR and ER are always 10%+ over goal for my 30-day, so the hole I'm in is probably the one I'll be staying in. Which sucks, because the whole game has become pretty awful. Survivor has just been worse. I've already cut my survivor time down so much, and these upcoming changes definitely make killer look more appealing. 5s off BT, my most hated perks, SB and Vigil getting nerfed, and my favorite killer perk, Nurse's, getting buffed for absolutely no reason. I don't know what could excite me to play surv after all that.
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I just miss the feeling that each new Killer introduced a genuinely different kind of chase.
But isn't that kind of what killers like Henry do? Make you run a totally different chase? The best way to go against a killer like that, who never needs to break a single pallet most matches, is to do fake outs towards pallets and vaults and move erratically and unpredictably. That's a different kind of chase.
But to answer your question, no, I don’t think pallets should be relevant against every killer. I like the Idea of killers who are still juiceable but require a totally different thought process aside from running in a circle around a rock until you drop a pile of wood.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108725#Comment_4108725
Its bad faith because what you're saying is deceptive and pushing the narrative that killer players are damaging the survivor experience even though there's absolutely no proof of this other than saying that matches felt worse after the pwyw feature came around. Just because some salty people post on this forum, that doesn't mean a majority of players are going to put on the sheep's clothing and try to ruin survivor experience as survivor.
And forgive me to not adding more context, I was specifically talking about killer duos in 2v8 since the mode is currently live and I forgot to mention it. There's no better comparison I can add to the team related problems on the killer side.I'm making an observation? You're telling me my idea is bad faith. For it to be bad faith I'd have to be actively lying for a nefarious purpose. What is that purpose? To remove pwyw? Yeah, I'd love to, but I'm not sure what agenda that helps.
I literally just got out of a 2v8 match with a guy who loaded into troll. Dropped evey pallet on the map, noise spammed, refused to touch gens, begged for heals but never helped anyone. 20 minutes of misery just to lose because of that. It's rampant in 2v8. Can't imagine why. Couldn't be pwyw with 40 minute queues.
I know what you mean it just doesn't make sense. Killers can't ruin the survivor experience by throwing. All that is is letting the survivors win. The only way I can load into killer intending to make people unhappy is too the opposite: play super sweaty. And that's just considered gameplay. There is no killer equivalent to a throwing teammate.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108647#Comment_4108647
"Do I know they're killer mains? No. But I've simply seen more of it since the system came to 1v4"
That literally is bad faith. Assuming that actions that happened after play while you wait are happening because of salty killer players when survivors sandbagging each other has existed for ages. That's like saying the horrible killer duos who don't know how to play are survivor mains in disguise trying to ruin the 2v8 killer experience, that's just not true.
Maybe look up what bad faith means.
How does that comparsion make sense? Who would they be ruining it for by being bad? If they're a duo they're the only ones suffering. Do survivors hate easy wins?
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108456#Comment_4108456
To clarifie do you mean losing most matches with swf overall or just when facing killer with 4 slow down perks?
Both, because most of my matches are SWF and most of my matches are killers with four slowdowns.
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108678#Comment_4108678
You should equip pride cosmetics and play killer, you will find the death threats and slurs
I have pride flags on several killers' hooks and survivor cosmetics. Still nothing.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108668#Comment_4108668
I can definitely sympathize for the 3 ppl in the clip. I've seen my fair share of ppl who ragequit after I get a gengrab as Pig at the start of a match. It quickly sours the mood. That being said... Who tf looks at a 5 minute queue and says "let's join as a survivor and ruin a match real quick"? If someone is doing that, thats insane.
Immature people, which this community has an abundance of. I regulaly remind myself that there are probably edgy and angsty 14-year-olds playing this game and they're not going to be paragons of human decency. In addition to them, there's a surplus of adult children too.
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@cammoking123 said:
End endgame chat? Man I couldn’t imagine. You PC gamers are so lucky to even have the option. But I don’t know how common toxicity is. They have a shared chat on Helldivers 2 and no one ever says anything toxic. Actually people rarely even talk.
I haven't played a ton on Steam but in my limited experience it isn't anywhere near as bad as people make it sound. I've yet to personally see any death wishes or slurs. You might get called useless or a bot. Sometimes there's a lengthy back and forth but it's never really viscious for me. Sometimes people are quite friendly. But usually they say nothing. It's actually kinda disappointing because i like the drama, but I don't get as much as I want. It's made me think the way people are acting in the match is fueling a lot of what's directed at them.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108652#Comment_4108652
I dont think that has much to do with PWYW. Theres been posts and videos about players throwing matches forever... way before PWYW was ever thought up. It was a major reason why the self unhook option was mostly removed.
First, I'm saying it's gotten worse for me since the system migrated to 1v4. Second, there's a difference between people who are immediately being terrors for no discernible reason—like the thrower teammate I had a couple weeks ago running No Mither and Self Care—and someone who's fustrated because they went down 30s into the match and have immediately lost hope. I think there's a pretty firm distinction between people loading in to grief and people being unhappy about how the match is going. That's one of the things we've talked about here, the hopeless state of many matches just a minute or two in. That's how the three people in that clip probably felt, versus the Nea that made then feel that way.
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The hatred between the roles fuels the competition and thus the game. They most likely want it to stay, at least to some extent. You can control what you experience though. You can stay off social media, including this forum. Close the chat. Block messages from strangers if you're on console. Players can reduce these interactions if they're bothering them that much. They just choose not to.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108647#Comment_4108647
If you have people who are actively sabotaging their team, you should just report them for griefing. I DO agree the PWYW feature is probably causing more people to queue for killer who would otherwise not wanna deal with the longer queue time. I dont think that in itself is an issue. Playing 2 matches of survivor, then playing my killer match has been the norm for me this time around. If you have people trolling and doing stuff like pulling every pallet on the map down... report them. I feel like alot of issues stem from BHVR being way too lax with dealing out bans when its appropriate and the losing the playerbase's trust about it.
I'm not really worried about 2v8. It's idiot mode. But some behavior is more obviously reportable than others. If I'm in a cage and I see two people in a corner spam crouching repeatedly is that reportable? Is opening 20 chests and never touching a gen reportable? Leaving me to die in a cage on one hook? Things like blocking a cage are obvious but the mode is so full of stupidity I wouldn't even know how they could assess it.
1v4 is my concern. This was one of the ones I had recently:
https://youtu.be/MY0rll0KUjo?is=-hWYOQwTNbMwaX7jThe Nea just started tbagging me at match start, went down, everyone knew she was throwing and gave up. 4k at 5 gens and oh so much fun for everyone. In the same session I had a Mikaela running only Circle of Healing who would hide behind a rock every time I came by and when I'd find her she'd either just stand there and look at me or she'd slowly walk away.
I do usually report people like this but does it do anything? Bans for griefing happen. I'm 100% on that. But how often, I dont know. I just don't want to see so much of it. It's one of many reasons I almost never soloq anymore.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108621#Comment_4108621
I think pwyw has done a lot of harm. I believe a lot of the bs I've seen in my matches can be attributed to farming killer mains who don't care about the survivor experience.
This just feels like bad faith argument. Killer players can't even try playing survivor without being accused that they're actively damaging the experience of other people. The whole priority queue doesn't even do anything, if someone were to enter a survivor match in the play while you wait, get themselves killed and move back to the lobby they still have to wait the same amount of time. If someone really only cares for playing killer, they'll just wait.
Not sure how a theory can be in bad faith, nor do I know what my bad faith goal would be in this case, but there are mains just in this forum alone that vehemently hate the role they don't like. They treat the two sides like warring religions. We've even had some killer mains say they actively try to get their teammates killed when they play survivor and that they think it's funny. I see it in my killer matches too, people who are intentionally causing problems for no obvious reason, often resulting in whole teams giving up. Do I know they're killer mains? No. But I've simply seen more of it since the system came to 1v4. My last session had two of these people in different matches. If the killer queue is only five minutes you can easily troll for 10k blood points and be in your killer lobby faster. Free points and spreading some chaos is probably better to some than waiting. Acting like this community is full of angels who would never cause problems is just unrealistic.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108598#Comment_4108598
This would be a solution honestly, honestly would fix lobby dodging coz they'd keep getting the same lobby requeueing
I've noticed it often does that anyway, which makes me wonder how random it really is. I'll see the same person go in and out three times.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108593#Comment_4108593
"Im not having fun" is completely valid. Fun CAN be affected by balance, but often times its its own thing. Personally, I've been queuing up as TRAPPER. I get a nice dopamine hit everytime my Wraith teammate stirs up the survivor team and I hear the snap of a trap across the map. Its not exactly the strongest most optimal thing ever, but im having fun.
I've been playing roughly 2 survivor games for every 1 killer game with the play as you wait system and still having fun. Its been really nice for clearing out my challenges on both sides as well.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/S9ZVJ8IZ2H4C/1000002523.jpg
Am I seeing this right? Have you only ever played 7 hours of survivor across all 2v8 iterations? That is surprisingly low.
I have about the same ER as you for this iteration. Still having a bad time, and it's also lower than my norm of 50-60%.
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108430#Comment_4108430
Once you have at least a couple thousand hours invested the trajectory pattern becomes very visible and you know when a survivor match is lost almost immediately. I'm just so tired of thinking about the hatch a minute into a match.Agree on that this is one of the big issues on the survivor side. My complaint about being survivor is not per se the difficulty difference (though that's not great), its that the killer has 'won' and we're all still stuck in the game. I think that's why BHVR went kind of crazy with the abandon options as a way to try and make that less awful without having to address core issues in the game.
I don't think it takes that long to figure out though, which is one of the likely problems with longer term player retention. If anything, I think survivors learn this lesson quickly, and perhaps learn it too well, causing them to give up matches way too quickly.
I just thought that with the up coming survivor commands it would be funny if one of them was 'please don't give up, we still have a chance.'
I've seen more and more people feeling that way and I don't know how the game can sustain it.At the current rate of queue times, killers also being the survivor players would basically be a given.
I suppose its not out of the question that longer term survivors break into two pools - SWFs and soloq that is killers waiting for their next killer game.
I think pwyw has done a lot of harm. I believe a lot of the bs I've seen in my matches can be attributed to farming killer mains who don't care about the survivor experience. It would explain the absolute uselessness of many of my 2v8 teammates, as well as the bizarre instances of immediate throwing and trolling I've had an increasing amount of in 1v4 since they added the feature. It's necessary for 2v8, I guess, but I'd like to see it gone from 1v4.
I think that's why BHVR went kind of crazy with the abandon options as a way to try and make that less awful without having to address core issues in the game.
Which is why I hate the feature. It's a get out of jail free card for BHVR. Why deal with issues when you can just let people leave for damn near anything?
I just thought that with the up coming survivor commands it would be funny if one of them was 'please don't give up, we still have a chance.'
God, this would be so bleak.
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Lobby dodging would be a non-issue if they just pulled from the same MMR bracket.
I'd also like to try going back to something like the rank system. It's hard to gage skill based on just kills and gate escapes, but it's also hard to judge anything else too.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108514#Comment_4108514
They could completely butcher any resemblance of balance in 2v8 and people would still wanna queue up with the only gamemode that lets you play killer with a friend. You have GOT to stop conflating queue times with balance.
Balance and a good experience are two different things. Even if the mode could be called survivor-sided the lack of matchmaking and killers on comms make it very unfun much of the time. I don't know what rocks all these trolls playing survivor slither out from when this mode rolls back out but a huge chunk of the people I've had the misfortune to play with have been so abysmally useless that the balance doesn't matter. They're opening chests, cleansing totems, and crouching behind rocks. A good chunk of my escapes in the few matches I dragged myself through were hatch. On top of that I often get to make it to the end just to get a minute of BMing from two killers. 3.5x is not enough to make me do more than a handful of that garbage.
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@kit1234 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108452#Comment_4108452
yeah to be fair I can't comment much on killer gameplay since I'm a survivor main, but I do agree with being difficult to hit ranged killer shots when a survivor is high ping I mainly am just talking about my experience in this whole thing but yeah ranged killers do struggle against high ping survivors. To me it feels smaller though since you can just m1 or even chase the other survivors if one of them is high ping but when the killers high ping I can't do much in solo q but your point is definitely correct.
Oh I dig it. I love being on high ping and being hit at a window I vaulted 5 days ago. It's certainly much worse. I've occasionally gone against ranged killers when I've got high ping and they can never hit me. That's how I know it's hurting them too because I've been there. But yeah survivor is far worse, for sure.
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@WeaverReaver42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108430#Comment_4108430
Survivor's main weakness is that you need other survivors to be competent to win, and most players refuse to put in the bare minimum. Killer's main weakness is that once all 4 survivors actually lock in you realize how many tools they have at their disposal compared to you. They are 4 swiss army knives and you are a single sledgehammer. You may out power them, but power was never what they needed to win. It's not what they should rely on.
As an experiment to see how few survivors are actually putting in meaningful effort: try and play perkless trapper (for bonus masochism/iterate on my point, do it with the addon that prevents traps from damaging them to reduce the impact your traps have on a match). If you can beat a squad of survivors with that killer and no perks, it's proof that they weren't a group you should have been put up against.I play with competent, high-hour players in SWF. We go against similar killers with 4 slowddowns almost every match and lose more than we win. And I wouldn't really call it the bare minimum. Survivor is much harder to learn. The bare minimum in this game is at least 1k hours of experience and that's a lot to ask of many people.
I already know when I'm against people I shouldn't have been with. I have dozens of screenshots of 4ks at 5 gens to remind me. I don't need to throw to find out. I'm not sure what that proves though. Play a killer I don't like or know well with no perks against the efficient meta players I often get? Of course that'll go badly. I'd have similar results if I went perkless as surv against those 4 showdown meta p100 killers with 5k+ hours.
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@kit1234 said:
To the people claiming survivor ping is an advantage: I have personally played thousands of matches on 170 to 200 ping on my friends' servers for years. There is absolutely zero advantage to it. High survivor ping introduces a terrible delay on literally everything you do, including using your items. It causes you to drop pallets late and get hit miles after vaulting because the server prioritizes the killer's view. High killer ping rewards the lagger with hits, while high survivor ping actively punishes the lagger. They are completely different mechanics. Delay on killer might be bad in some small ways, but you get to hit survivors from far away which is way better. Maybe around 300+ ping on a survivor it becomes an advantage because your character starts completely teleporting around the map, but anywhere around 200 ping is just pure disadvantage.
Though I agree that high ping on survivor is a disadvantage 95% of the time, as someone who plays a ranged killer I cannot hit a player with 150 ping to save my life. The hit will look direct on my end but nothing happens. Meanwhile I'll have a visible miss that goes through as a hit. It's occasionally, in very specific situations, an advantage to the player, but you probably don't even realize it. You just think the killer is missing a lot.
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@SnuglyPortia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108398#Comment_4108398
You are still refusing to acknowledge why slugging happens and delegating the whole affair to "people can do it therefor they will 🥴"; regardless of if you assign "toxicity" to the act you are still not willing to confront why killers slug for any reason beyond "they want to." That doesn't lead to any improvements of the problem: just new issues arising as you try to address symptoms rather than diseases.
The disease is the unwillingness of the devs to stop it. If you put on a slugging builds and load in against unsuspecting soloqers you'll probably win. It's a path of low resistance that allows you to avoid things about the game you don't like. Don't like sabos, pallet saves, or flashlights? Gen perks? Hook-based perks? Off hook protections? Picking up and walking to a hook? Well then just avoid the whole game and slug. The "problem" is that survivors might actually be able to act in the match. Slugging is an off button that makes a player unable to do anything and if you can get all four and they have no perks to help then that's a wrap. There's zero way to comeback. That's the problem with it.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108398#Comment_4108398
I do have the issue with the game as they refuse to nerf the broken stuff while continuing hand holding the survivors with stuff like pallets density. I agree that survivors are weaker than the killer and that they need the perks but not when they are overpowered and plays the game for them and rewards stuff like losing or ratting.
I'm not sure why we need global incentives just for playing the game as normal. *Most people already do that.
Killers objective is to kill, slugging/tunneling is killing so it is playing the game normally (i don't mind strong perks if survivors stop complaining about tunneling/slugging as those strategies are needed to have a chance against all of this and a bunch of pallets on a killer below A tier, A/S tier killers are the only ones that are to play without those strategies), you can say that killers have a 60% kill rate that proves the game is killer sided but the kill rate is only 60% (the kill rate bhvr wants) because of tunneling and slugging (if you check on nightlight the kill rates, majority of them are below 50% or just above 50% when those strategies are still in use by the majority even on A tier killers). The point of hook incentives is to make the game more fun with stuff like 3 dashes on wesker (you can't tell me this is not fun in 2v8) and reduce the amount of the annoying strategies but not making them punishing as they are required most of the time against stuff like gen rushing or bully squad (tunneling is literally rushing the objective like gen rushing so both are doing the objective but it doesn't change the fact that both are extremely strong).
I don't need a cookie just for doing the thing I'm supposed to do.
Survivors are getting a cookie for doing what they are not supposed to do (getting hooked, they need to try survive and waste as much time as possible, using the perks like DS and dh is really not that hard and some more just free value) so this statement just doesn't make sense, deli is different but the issues with it are in end game basically which were not addressed and it's really easy to use.
Pallets existing is a problem. Perks being useful is a problem. Meanwhile maps have been shrunk, main buildings nerfed, and hit validation is killer sided. Is bloodlust hand holding? What about windows being blocked after three vaults? The game literally says "Oh sweetie you can't catch them? Here let me help you."
those strategies are needed to have a chance against all of this and a bunch of pallets on a killer below A tier, A/S tier killers are the only ones that are to play without those strategies
Depending on whose made up tier list you're referencing as that's an entirely opinion-based concept, about half the roster is A tier. That's quite a lot of "viable" killers. There are people who are great with every killer. Have you considered it's a player issue and not a character issue? If you want to play a more challenging killer, you should expect a more challenging time. I'll never understand why people whine about GF or Trapper as though they're legally obligated to play them. If they aren't enjoyable why play them?
if you check on nightlight the kill rates, majority of them are below 50% or just above 50% when those strategies are still in use by the majority even on A tier killers
First, do you know how Nightlight works? Second, are your own stats similar to those numbers?
tunneling is literally rushing the objective like gen rushing so both are doing the objective but it doesn't change the fact that both are extremely strong
Define gen rushing.
Survivors are getting a cookie for doing what they are not supposed to do
I don't know in what reality you expect survivors to go all match without being hooked. Knowing when to take aggro (and when it's your turn on the hook) is part of survivor macro. So is intentionally activating those perks.
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@littlehoot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108314#Comment_4108314
This pretty well articulates my experiences as well.
This time last year, I was playing at least a dozen games of solo survivor most nights of the week—many more if even one of my friends was online to queue up with me. And largely I had a lot of fun playing those matches, even though I'd say my survival rate was either just as bad or worse than it is now.
Nowadays if I hop on to play solo survivor games (which I go weeks and weeks without doing) it's rare for me to last more than three games before I quit. Usually I'll get a few games in if I have a friend playing with me, but it's not even close to the amount of survivor I was playing before.
It's just not fun? It feels like every tweak or balancing change or feature introduced has railroaded survivors into having to play a particular way in order to be 'meta'—which doesn't even really guarantee a less miserable or more successful experience. It just feels like survivor has no agency left, that none of our choices in game really matter or have any impact. Oftentimes, regardless of what we as individual players do, the outcome of the game is decided within the first minute or two, and everything thereafter is just being forced to go through the motions without any real hope of a comeback.
I think that might be a key part of it: hope.
On an individual game basis, most games are decided almost immediately and in the killers favour, and there is no hope on the survivor side of turning that around. Equally so in a more zoomed out view, whenever a proposed feature that might improve survivor experience is proposed, providing hope that the game experience for survivors might improve, it's usually swiftly snatched away or nerfed into uselessness.
And now survivors have nothing to look forward to except more nerfs to the very few in game systems that ever really provided any hope at all (like the upcoming nerf to BT), and new perks can't provide it either because we've all now recognised the pattern of a new survivor perk being added, it actually doing something, and then it promptly being nerfed into oblivion.
That's just my take on it from my personal experiences playing: there's usually no hope for survivors on an individual game basis, and there's no hope for improvements for survivors on a role-wide balancing basis either. So we get burnt out and we don't play as much.
@littlehoot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108314#Comment_4108314
This pretty well articulates my experiences as well.
This time last year, I was playing at least a dozen games of solo survivor most nights of the week—many more if even one of my friends was online to queue up with me. And largely I had a lot of fun playing those matches, even though I'd say my survival rate was either just as bad or worse than it is now.
Nowadays if I hop on to play solo survivor games (which I go weeks and weeks without doing) it's rare for me to last more than three games before I quit. Usually I'll get a few games in if I have a friend playing with me, but it's not even close to the amount of survivor I was playing before.
It's just not fun? It feels like every tweak or balancing change or feature introduced has railroaded survivors into having to play a particular way in order to be 'meta'—which doesn't even really guarantee a less miserable or more successful experience. It just feels like survivor has no agency left, that none of our choices in game really matter or have any impact. Oftentimes, regardless of what we as individual players do, the outcome of the game is decided within the first minute or two, and everything thereafter is just being forced to go through the motions without any real hope of a comeback.
I think that might be a key part of it: hope.
On an individual game basis, most games are decided almost immediately and in the killers favour, and there is no hope on the survivor side of turning that around. Equally so in a more zoomed out view, whenever a proposed feature that might improve survivor experience is proposed, providing hope that the game experience for survivors might improve, it's usually swiftly snatched away or nerfed into uselessness.
And now survivors have nothing to look forward to except more nerfs to the very few in game systems that ever really provided any hope at all (like the upcoming nerf to BT), and new perks can't provide it either because we've all now recognised the pattern of a new survivor perk being added, it actually doing something, and then it promptly being nerfed into oblivion.
That's just my take on it from my personal experiences playing: there's usually no hope for survivors on an individual game basis, and there's no hope for improvements for survivors on a role-wide balancing basis either. So we get burnt out and we don't play as much.
Yeah a big part of the problem is how quickly things go south as survivor and how unfixable it is. And that knowledge comes with time. Once you have at least a couple thousand hours invested the trajectory pattern becomes very visible and you know when a survivor match is lost almost immediately. I'm just so tired of thinking about the hatch a minute into a match.
Meanwhile, on killer, I can lose three gens with one hook and still comeback. I don't go a single killer session without getting a win in end game after playing terrible. There's always hope as killer. But as survivor they want you to lose a lot and be fine with hopeless matches.
So if option one is lose a whole lot and feel bad a minute into a match, and option two is win more and feel more in control, why would you choose option one? I've seen more and more people feeling that way and I don't know how the game can sustain it.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108323#Comment_4108323
We do it because of the meta survivor perks which are very annoying to face like dh, ds, deliverance, shoulder the burden and more as well as getting pressure against the op gen rushing builds (like don't tell me tunneling/slugging is unfun when using those perks), 4 meta killer perks are not even close to 16 survivor meta perks.
I personally want hook incentives for not tunneling/slugging like maybe wesker getting 3 dashes for a minute after hooking a unique survivor or picking up a survivor in 20 seconds after downing them and you can't get this bonus anymore if you hook a survivor twice in row or kill before 6 hooks.
Yeah I've heard the narrative. Survivors have perks therefore killers circumvent all of the intended gameplay flow because, again, the game continues to allow them to do so. If every halfway useful perk in the game is a problem than you have a problem with the entire game. Survivors are weaker than killers. They do need to have something useful in their arsenal. Survivors could be perkless and killers will then ask for them to be 3.8 or something. It never ends.
I'm not sure why we need global incentives just for playing the game as normal. Must people already do that. I don't need a cookie just for doing the thing I'm supposed to do.
@SnuglyPortia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108323#Comment_4108323
There are several weaknesses that arise from slugging instead of hooking. Slugs are much harder to defend, you don't get the value from any hooking perks, slugging someone to death is SIGNIFICANTLY longer than just hooking them three times, and in the case where someone has anti-slug counter perks, they tend to counter slugging HARD.
Let's not disregard the reason players opt to slug with "killers are just mean 🥴" because that's how we get Skull Merchant shot in the knees 15 times and disgusting perks like Shoulder the Burden and Hyperfocus, which then need to be compensated with disgusting killers like Ghoul, Dracula, Jason, and release-day Krasue.
If you're loading in intending to slug you probably aren't running hooking perks so not sure what that matters. I didn't say "killers are just mean". I'm saying any cheese this game allows will continue to happen unless it becomes unviable.
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@SnuglyPortia said:
I agree with you, but we need to address WHY killers slug instead of blanket nerfing slugging strategies.
They do it because the game let's them do it.
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I've typically jumped back and forth between the roles, usually per session, but lately I'm basically playing killer every day and will only play survivor with friends, and even that usually goes terribly. We're lucky most matches to get someone out through the hatch. I'm farming a bit in 2v8 solo survivor currently and it's the same way. Almost all matches have been killer wins even when the killers are really bad. These people will whiff on me 5 times in a chase with a killer they clearly don't know well and still win the match somehow. The role feels unpleasant to me right now and the 5s off the baskeit BT is about to make it feel even worse. The knee jeek reposnses to outrage about Cross Examination and Fast Track have also left a bad taste in my mouth. Then I come here to see killer mains parrot CCs and whine about how bad killer is and how survivors need nerfs. So I'll just play killer where I'm generally pretty satisfied with my matches, unlike survivor, which is leaving me fustrated and bitter. And nothing on the horizon tells me it's going to get better.
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Very curious to see how this plays out. It looks pretty well thought through. My current concern is console. If this is like Vecna's spell wheel it's going to be a bit tricky for console players to do quickly and they may hit the wrong input on accident. That happens to me a lot with Vecna.