littlehoot
littlehoot
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I'm gonna be honest, the desire to finish tome challenges and always having tome challenges to work towards is one of the main things that keeps me playing the game at this point. Them being removed kind of feels like another nail in the coffin for me personally.
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I mean if I was the survivor, would I be thrilled about the situation? No.
But patrolling gates with the tools the killer's kit provides is just normal gameplay, the very opposite of an exploit.
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@cogsturning said:
I've typically jumped back and forth between the roles, usually per session, but lately I'm basically playing killer every day and will only play survivor with friends, and even that usually goes terribly. We're lucky most matches to get someone out through the hatch. I'm farming a bit in 2v8 solo survivor currently and it's the same way. Almost all matches have been killer wins even when the killers are really bad. These people will whiff on me 5 times in a chase with a killer they clearly don't know well and still win the match somehow. The role feels unpleasant to me right now and the 5s off the baskeit BT is about to make it feel even worse. The knee jeek reposnses to outrage about Cross Examination and Fast Track have also left a bad taste in my mouth. Then I come here to see killer mains parrot CCs and whine about how bad killer is and how survivors need nerfs. So I'll just play killer where I'm generally pretty satisfied with my matches, unlike survivor, which is leaving me fustrated and bitter. And nothing on the horizon tells me it's going to get better.
This pretty well articulates my experiences as well.
This time last year, I was playing at least a dozen games of solo survivor most nights of the week—many more if even one of my friends was online to queue up with me. And largely I had a lot of fun playing those matches, even though I'd say my survival rate was either just as bad or worse than it is now.
Nowadays if I hop on to play solo survivor games (which I go weeks and weeks without doing) it's rare for me to last more than three games before I quit. Usually I'll get a few games in if I have a friend playing with me, but it's not even close to the amount of survivor I was playing before.
It's just not fun? It feels like every tweak or balancing change or feature introduced has railroaded survivors into having to play a particular way in order to be 'meta'—which doesn't even really guarantee a less miserable or more successful experience. It just feels like survivor has no agency left, that none of our choices in game really matter or have any impact. Oftentimes, regardless of what we as individual players do, the outcome of the game is decided within the first minute or two, and everything thereafter is just being forced to go through the motions without any real hope of a comeback.
I think that might be a key part of it: hope.
On an individual game basis, most games are decided almost immediately and in the killers favour, and there is no hope on the survivor side of turning that around. Equally so in a more zoomed out view, whenever a proposed feature that might improve survivor experience is proposed, providing hope that the game experience for survivors might improve, it's usually swiftly snatched away or nerfed into uselessness.
And now survivors have nothing to look forward to except more nerfs to the very few in game systems that ever really provided any hope at all (like the upcoming nerf to BT), and new perks can't provide it either because we've all now recognised the pattern of a new survivor perk being added, it actually doing something, and then it promptly being nerfed into oblivion.
That's just my take on it from my personal experiences playing: there's usually no hope for survivors on an individual game basis, and there's no hope for improvements for survivors on a role-wide balancing basis either. So we get burnt out and we don't play as much.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104893#Comment_4104893
Still applies.
I didn't even mention the biggest reason though, and that's Adept runs.If the biggest reason for slugging for the 4k is adept runs, then why exactly is it happening so frequently in Chaos Shuffle mode where it is physically impossible to do your adept?
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103410#Comment_4103410
there's no way to make the game balanced for terrible survivors who don't engage with mechanics that doesn't make competent survivors always win
The idea that killer players should be pushed to their limits pulling out all the stops to have a positive winrate against survs who barely touch gens simply isn't it
I didn't say that. I said that by and large the player base on both sides is NOT high skilled, high MMR, and that as a result, balancing changes should be made around the player experience of the majority of their players.
I also never said that killer players should be pushed to their limits to have a positive winrate. Especially because there is, quite frankly, no world in which that's going to happen because the game is balanced around a 60% kill rate. But the fact of the matter is it is vastly easier for your average player to pick up a killer (not all killers, but at least a solid portion of the roster) and immediately win games than it is for someone to start out as survivor and win games.
I don't see why people have to conflate 'balancing changes that don't make survivors want to uninstall the game' with 'all killers should have to miserably sweat in order to get a 2k'. Those things don't go hand in hand, one does not equal the other.
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@coldflame said:
theres no way to say it without seeming like tribal shitfling but a lot of surv players are super bad at the game and want it balanced around their skill level
Yes. Because survivors make up 80% of the player base by necessity. There's more of them in general so more of them will be bad at the game, that's statistics. And the vast majority of players fall into the low to mid tier MMR range. The initial skill threshold to be even passably good at DBD is incredibly high to begin with and requires hundreds if not thousands of hours of gameplay. The percentage of the player base that actually has that many hours sunk into the game/will be willing to sink that much time into the game to get good at it is a very small amount of the overall player base.
This is true for killers as well. Though there are plenty of killers that have a much lower initial skill threshold than survivor does on the whole—there are some that are very difficult to learn and have a high skill threshold, but there are undeniable killers someone could immediately 4K with without much game experience.
The bulk of the player base aren't comp level SWFs at the top 1% of MMR ranking. The bulk of the player base are anywhere from mediocre to kinda okay at the game. And quite frankly, that's the cohort the game should be balanced around. High MMR players are the minority and any changes made based on balancing complaints at their skill level will only turn the game for most players into cock and ball torture.
I'll die on this hill because the people who are "super bad at the game" are MOST of the player base, and if the game continually drives them away by making the game punishing for them to play.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099744#Comment_4099744
i (literally just) dragged my mate into a custom, your wish is my command. i havent touched anything from this recording.
I have to say that it was honestly ridiculous how quiet the lullaby was given how close the killer was to you. Absolutely ridiculous.
But thank you to you and your friend for providing the evidence, y'all are doing gods work.
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I'm not going to pretend I have some in depth ideas about how to buff some of the older killers. I am going to say that the fact that every recent killer has just been 3-4 other killers rolled into one, and therefore more oppressive and awful to play against than all of the previous ones, has made it so that as a survivor player, I'm not excited about new killer releases anymore.
I wanted to be excited about Jason—and I was until the third game when I realised he was just Spirit, Animatronic, Dark Lord rolled into one powercrept annoying killer.
It's boring, oppressive and usually makes games sort of miserable. The most older killers are more fun to play as and against because they actually specialise in something, which means there's actual counter play for survivors, and there's actual skill required if you want to be really good at them.
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I agree completely.
Quite frankly, if the game can't differentiate between someone intentionally disconnecting mid game and THEIR SERVERS having a problem and kicking people from a game, there shouldn't be any DC penalty at all. Like I'm sorry, I know that isn't a popular opinion but it's a hill I'll die on. The DC penalty shouldn't exist, and the fact that the penalty is entirely automated, cannot be appealed and the devs aren't willing to do anything about it is appalling.
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I mean in petty terms it probably has something to do with the fact that he was released in mid June and I have played exactly FIFTY FIVE MATCHES AGAINST HIM. Yes, I am being specific, yes I have a spreadsheet, don't @ me.
But other than that he's not fun to play against. He's supposed to be a 4.4 killer but because he gets haste coming out of OE and OE is endless and has basically no cooldown, he is functionally a 4.6 killer who is also a ranged killer who can reload his projectile three times faster than any other ranged killer (all of whom are 4.4).
Also his basekit has more info gathering than most killers have with a full perk build.
But what annoys me the most about him is OE. Sure, other killers have a speed mode similar like Spirit—but she doesn't get visual indicators of a survivor who is doing anything but running. Other killers can teleport such as Xenomorph or Animatronic—but they both have very limited set locations they can teleport or move to, not every window, vault point, actual palette or empty space where a palette could hypothetically be.
So the only effective counter to him being in this mode—which is endless, he could in theory stay in there for a full hour until a game server shut down—is to crouch walk. Because standing still? Jason knows. Walking? Jason knows. Cleansing a totem? Jason knows. Repairing a gen? Jason knows. Crouching but not moving? Jason knows.
It turns into a game of chicken with Jason's staying in OE endlessly until some poor survivor gives in, gets on a generator and in less than three seconds is injured and in chase—usually impaled shortly after.
Also I don't like that he has an extra free basekit mori, and several of his add on's are stupidly powerful, to the point that they should count as 5th and 6th perk slots.
But hey that's just me.
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@OrionQc24 said:
How is a P4 Trapper vs an entire full SWF P100 squad a fair match up exactly ? I set up two traps on the ground and 3 gens popped. I'm not even sure how that's even possible within about 30-35 seconds ? I have the recording. Idk maybe gen rush is getting wild again ? Like what exactly is the formula for match ups ?
I definitely agree. It's really unfair in both directions. And seemingly almost completely random. This was in December but on two separate days that I played survivor games, I made a note of all the killers and their prestige ranking that I went up against (at the time I think my highest prestiged survivor was maybe around P30-P40?)
Day One:
- P53 Trapper
- P100 Blight
- P3 Onryo
- P5 Xenomorph
- P81 Cannibal
- P11 Animatronic
- P7 Artist
Day Two:
- P2 Skull Merchant
- P0 Trickster
- P24 Huntress
- P3 Houndmaster
- P2 Lich
- P8 Demogorgon
- P19 Krasue
- P3 Trickster
- P3 Deathslinger
- P26 Hillbilly
- P4 Trickster
- P3 Pig
- P4 Blight
- P100 Skull Merchant
- P14 Nemesis
- P0 Demogorgon
- P2 Houndmaster
- P14 Dark Lord
Even just looking at this now I'm totally convinced that there isn't any real MMR. There's zero consistency. I think that if there is any kind of MMR it comes an incredibly distant second to queue times, because there's no world in which going from P53 Trapper > P100 Blight > P3 Onryo in back to back games makes any sense.
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While I agree that overall, the strength of the killer roster should be brought into a tighter range so that we don't have killers that are extreme outliers (either way too powerful or way too underpowered), quite frankly if Jason became the benchmark for how strong all killers were, I think every person I know who plays survivor would quit the game on the spot.
Jason is, in my opinion, not a good benchmark for the ideal strength of a killer. Or the ideal design for a killers kit. His add on's are basically a fifth perk slot, his counterplay is boring, his abilities have no time limit or significant cooldown, he can reload too fast and too frequently and his abilities fundamentally devalue survivor perks that work on every single other killer on the roster.
I do think that there needs to be some evening out of killer power levels, some killers need to be buffed a little, some need to be nerfed a little, but by no means is Jason the balanced midpoint.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/468594/screaming-in-locker-against-jason
If you actually screamed, then it was a bug, but even if you didn't scream, he sees you with the red thing before he pops out anyway like if you are working a gen, and you get killer instinct, and lockers do not protect against that. So it wouldn't have really mattered anyway.
I can confirm his jump scare does make you scream in lockers. Just happened to me in a game, happened to my friend last night as well. Whether it's a bug or not I can't say, but I can promise you it's happening.
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@hermitkermit said:
Hmm… not sure these are actually hot takes, but this is the internet, so I’m sure someone somewhere will be deeply offended lol.
1. More cosmetic expression!I know a lot of people hate the sillier cosmetics because they think it kills the horror vibe, but honestly, the art team almost always knocks it out of the park. It’s fun being able to dress your character how you want. Besides, there are already plenty of things in DBD that aren’t exactly horrorrealistic. We have neon scratch marks, glowing auras, and people getting impaled on hooks without dying of blood loss
2. Encourage positive player interactions.I’d love to see some kind of system that rewards good sportsmanship. Let players gift BP, items, charms, or make the thumbs up system actually mean something. Maybe enough positive ratings could earn cosmetics, BP bundles, or other rewards. Positivity should be encouraged, especially in a comunity that’s as passionate and famously divided as DBD
3. The community has wildly unrealistic expectations of what a casual player should know.
This is probably my hottest take so it’s really long sorry.DBD is a game that takes thousands of hours to become even competent at, and every new chapter adds even more knowledge to learn. We’re at a point where it’s almost unreasonable to expect a genuinely casual player to keep up.
There are over 40 killers, 300+ of perks, 22 status effects, 60+ maps, over 1,000 add-ons, and specific counterplay knowledge attached to all of it. Every map, every status effect, every killer, every add-on, every item has its own specific knowledge and counterplay about what it is, when/where to do it, and what you’re supposed to do depending on a hundred different variables.
That’s probably over 100 pages of reading material just to understand the basics of what’s in the game, and that’s before you’ve actually played a single match. Reading about something and doing it successfully are two completely different things.
If we want to attract and keep casual players, not have such hardcore sweaty matches that aren’t just 4stack SWAT teams and 5 gen tunneling giga Blights we need to be honest about how much knowledge DBD actually demands. At some point it stops being “most people suck at DBD” and starts being “you can’t be casual and expect not to suck at DBD” and expecting causal players not to “suck” is unreasonable.
I don’t know how anyone can look at this game and think, “It’s not that hard dude. You only need to learn 400+ things and do them all well” there is no beginner mode, there is no practice arena, there is no slow dip in the pool. Everyone is thrown in the deep end at the same time and it’s getting deeper with every new chapter and yet some still scoff at how people are struggling to breach the surface.
TLDR; The game really needs to be more accessible for casual players, and a bit more forgiving, and a lot more informative. How that should be done is a separate discussion/issue, but this communities definition of casual is not casual in the slightest.
I actually really agree with your second point. I've brought it up before on another thread—mostly by drawing from my experiences playing FFXIV, where after every instanced duty you're allowed to give a "commendation" to someone else in your party (only if you were not partied up before joining the lobby, so you can't just give comms to your friends). Getting enough commendations unlocks achievements, rewards, etc. You don't HAVE to give one out in a game if you don't want to. But honestly, whenever I leave a duty and I see the little notification that someone gave me a comm, it's really nice.
IDK it just encourages positive behaviour? Like sure, maybe people would only do it at first to get the benefits or rewards, but does it really matter why someone exhibits positive behaviour in a lobby as long as they are in fact doing it? It would foster way more good will and positivity in the community. Especially if it extended to being able to give the killer a comm as a survivor, or the killer being able to hand out a commendation to a survivor they thought was really good.
This is especially the case because console players don't get chat. There have been heaps of games where I've wanted to say something to a fellow survivor or a killer I thought was good, but couldn't because they were on console. Even in matches where I've died as survivor, there have been killers I really enjoyed and thought deserved their flowers. As it stands, the little 'thumbs up' thing doesn't really do anything. It doesn't even notify the person that they got that acknowledgement.
I just think it would be a small thing that might encourage slightly more good will and positive interactions within the player base.
I also really agree with your other two points. The first because at this point, after what they did to Myers, BHVR has effectively gutted all true horror elements from gameplay, so ######### it, let me dress up in silly clothes.
The third because it is obscene the amount of things any given player has to learn to be even passably good at the game. We're about to get our FORTY THIRD KILLER, of which each and every one has a different type of counterplay tactic you're supposed to remember. As well as how different perks work and counterplay those as well. It's bonkers to expect any casual player to remember all of that information.
At this point don't even ask me to distinguish between different gen blocking perks. The gen is blocked. At some point maybe it will be unblocked. What caused it? Good question, don't know, it is a mystery.
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Oh boy here we go.
- Everything about the Myers rework was garbage. All of it. Literally took him from equal first on fave killers to play against as survivor to only slightly more enjoyable than Plague and Legion.
- A solid 70% of add on's for both sides are completely useless.
- The devs have a provable bias towards the enjoyment of killer players that is only made worse by the majority of their content creator community.
- I loathe the Animatronic as a killer and I wish the chapter had never happened. The map is the only passably good thing that happened as a result.
- The Casting of Frank Stone was a phenomenal game.
- Removing challenges from Tomes was bad actually.
- Survivor on the whole is harder than killer on the whole. There are killers with incredibly high skill ceilings and I respect people who are really good at them a lot. But survivor comes with a need to understand your own perks, map layout, most killer perks, all killer powers and how to counter them. This bank of knowledge needed to be good at survivor increases every time we get a new killer. Sure, survivors get new perks, but each individual survivor does not come with a unique ability you have to use specific tactics to counter on top of that.
- The DC penalty system is garbage and should be removed completely.
- Removing the ability to take your chances was a horrendous change to the game that has only worsened it.
- I actually genuinely don't mind if Blight doesn't get nerfed—and I say this as someone who played him one (1) time in 2v8, felt like I was having a stroke and vowed to never touch the killer again.
- Ghoul's free hits are annoying but he's honestly never been half as terrible to go against as most people claim.
- Killer mains who justify hard tunnelling, slugging and camping will ALWAYS find a new thing to justify doing so. It doesn't matter what survivors do, what perks they have, what items they bring, what balancing changes are made. Kill rates could be at 95% and those people would still claim the only way to win was hard tunnelling, slugging and camping.
- If a survivor is slugged more than twice in the same match, they should get a free unbreakable. Especially if the majority of the team is also slugged.
- I should be allowed to kick Chucky like a football one (1) time per match.
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I've been saying this since basically the moment the rework happened. The rework totally stripped him of any kind of character identity, anything that made him exciting or fun to go against and overall just…sucks.
Making tombstone basekit ruined the tenseness, the fear of being tombstoned. Giving him a huge dash attack that absolutely demolishes palettes just makes him feel like a boring amalgamation of other new killers. He feels generic and unfun to verse now.
And I say this as someone who absolutely loved going against Michael as a survivor prior to his rework—even though most of the time, I died.
One of the things that made Myers scary was the potential threat of being tombstoned. Nothing was more terrifying than an eerily quiet beginning to a game, only for abruptly, one of your teammates to get tombstoned. The tension, the panic, the fear, it was unparalleled. And the way survivors adjusted their playstyle when they didn't know if Tombstone was in play or not? Brilliant. Now it's just an annoying inevitability. It's not special, it's not scary, it's not tense. If you get hooked for a second time, you just kind of automatically assume you're gonna get grabbed and stabbed.
Not to mention his stalk mechanic was iconic and if done well had a hell of a payoff. Now it just feels like it's all payoff for the killer with none of the work. Myers seems to always have Slaughtering Strike and good luck trying to break line of sight to avoid stalk because he gets it in about half a second.
Like…Myers was one of the only killers in the game that legitimately gave good scares. Now he's one of the most meh killers in the game, and the fact that they did this right before losing the license—meaning it's unlikely to be reversed or fixed any time in the next few years—absolutely guts me.
So yeah, I ######### hate re-worked Myers. Sue me.
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Quite frankly, if they're going to change a key, iconic part of a character—which is the reason a lot of people purchased the character—they should have to offer refunds for the character if people want them, especially given that Steve is a licensed character, meaning actual money was involved rather than just in game currency.
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@OrangeBear said:
I feel like this must be a left over from the cancelled chaos shuffle anti-slug test that was planned
There's a good chance you're right about that, but given the situation, it does not reflect well on the devs that they didn't say anything about it.
Actually it doesn't reflect well on the devs that they never say anything about any of the issues the community raises, or the reasons for their often asinine decisions.
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Given the recent problems with extreme slugging, and the essentially shelved anti-slugging/anti-tunnelling changes, I would really like to know what possible justification the devs have for launching a game mode where the few incredibly situational anti-slugging perks are excluded.
The devs aren't beating the 'not caring about survivor experience' allegations anytime soon.
I personally wouldn't mind if A Nurses Calling was in Chaos Shuffle, but if Killers get the full pool of perks, Survivors should also get the full pool of perks.
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I'm prefacing this with saying I'm not a killer main and that I basically haven't played 1v4 since November because the game borders on unbearable at the moment.
But when I do play survivor, I have a spreadsheet that tracks which killers I verse. Admittedly when 2v8 is up, I mostly play that, but I keep track of those killers separately from 1v4.
So from late July through to the end of November, the killers I saw the most from my spreadsheet are:
- Animatronic
- Huntress
- Shape
- Mastermind
- Ghostface
Keeping in mind that server and MMR probably have some impact on these results, but there you have it.
Though credit where credit is due: Ghoul did tie with Trapper for equal 6th place.
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Uh…I was happy about the AOT collection coming back because I'm an AOT fan. The Overgrown and Entombment Rifts had some cosmetics I liked.
The memery of being able to play the tamborine at a killer. Orela and Vee as a whole are fun survivors.
That's kinda all I got tbh. Even some of the things people are listing in here as being their 'something good' are things I loathed about DBD this year. But I was happy about those things.
Oh and play while you queue for 2v8 killer. That was probably the best gameplay/mechanic thing that happened the entire year.
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@Wiccamanplays said:
"Survivors can also only abandon in very specific situations. And well, Killers should not go next, a Killer DC is probably even worse than a Survivor DC, because when a Survivor DCs this sucks for all other Survivors (not for the Killer, since it is a free win with a Bot), but at least the game goes on. If a Killer DCs, the game would be over immediately."
The match is over and the Survivors win. They get to escape with all their BP, while the Killer gets nothing and a timeout penalty. I just don't see why a Killer who's clearly aware that they're past the point of no return has to keep going or face a penalty just for the amusement of the Survivors, like they're some kind of dancing monkey.
I think the key difference here is again, if a survivor DCs, the other four people in the match still get to play the game.
If the killer DCs, the match instantly ends. Even if it's counted as a win to the survivor players, they fundamentally still did not get to actually play the game.
Even if the killer was just gone and the survivors finished gens and left without the threat, that isn't what the game is. That's just playing generator simulator—an aspect of gameplay that most regard as the most boring part of the entire game. That's it. That's the reason. If a survivor DCs, the other four players can still play the game. If the killer DCs, they deny everyone else in the match the ability to play. That's why killers can't abandon.
And once again, I have been in matches that seemed completely over and seen killers come back to 4Ks. I've been that killer, and I will readily admit I'm a pretty ass killer player. The game isn't really at any point totally without merit for the killer player, until the last survivor has actively left the trial, there is always the ability to come back to some degree. Most of the situations in which survivors can abandon without penalty, there is no come back, there is no merit, just a dragging out of the inevitable, and often times there's little to no real interactivity at all (slugged, hooked, etc).
A common complaint I see from killer mains re: survivors abandoning and being left with the bots is that the bots aren't as fun to play against. Which I can absolutely understand, but a survivor bot replacing an abandon or DC still allows you, in some capacity, to play out the match. The reverse isn't true.
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038962#Comment_4038962
Videos showing 2 or 3 gens popping in the first few minutes literally means nothing. The last 2-3s is what takes time because it is easier to defend fewer gens towards the middle/end game. "Gens flying" in the beginning does not mean it's actually leading to all gens getting done and escaping. In fact, I'd argue most games do not result in all 5 gens getting done and more than 2 survivors getting out.
That being said, these are my survivor results from the last 30 games.
4 things to note:
- My 30 day escape rate is currently 61.39%.
- I only play solo q.
- I always bring a hatch offering (now that they are secret, they work fairly often).
- The blight match with a 3 out was because the blight was memeing and let us go (otherwise every blight match would been an L)
Game
Killer
Map
Match Length
Did I Survive?
# of Survivors Escaped
30
Nurse
Nostromo Wreckage
2:18
No
0
# of Escapes
Total # of Escapes Possible
30 Game Escape Rate
29
Doctor
Dead Dawg Saloon
10:58
No
0
Individual
16
30
53.33%
28
Blight
Underground Complex
10:24
No
0
Team
64
120
53.33%
27
Wraith
Eyrie of Crows
9:29
No
3
26
Dredge
Father Campbell's Chapel
6:09
Yes
4
25
Oni
The Thompson House
6:35
Yes
4
24
Blight
Dead Dawg Saloon
6:56
No
1
23
Pig
Midwich
6:10
Yes
4
22
Blight
The Game
15:20
No
0
21
Chucky
Nostromo Wreckage
5:16
Yes
4
20
Blight
Eyrie of Crows
13:04
No
1
19
Unknown
Ormond
3:26
Yes
4
18
Myers
Rancid Abattoir
8:53
Yes
3
17
Blight
Underground Complex
5:39
No
2
16
Skull Merchant
The Shattered Square
6:18
Yes
4
15
Huntress
Garden of Joy
11:46
Yes
4
14
Plague
RPD
10:08
Yes
4
13
Unknown
Dead Sands
11:15
Yes
1
12
Trapper
Disturbed Ward
15:45
Yes
3
11
Wesker
Toba Landing
7:52
No
2
10
The Twins
Lampkin Lane
13:10
Yes
2
9
Dredge
Nostromo Wreckage
13:37
Yes
3
8
Oni
Midwich
15:25
No
1
7
Ghoul
The Pale Rose
7:14
No
1
6
Blight
Underground Complex
4:05
No
0
5
Vecna
Father Campbell's Chapel
7:59
Yes
4
4
Clown
Mother's Dwelling
12:11
No
1
3
Blight
Treatment Theater
18:38
Yes
3
2
Demogorgon
Eyrie of Crows
11:31
Yes
1
1
Blight
Dead Dawg Saloon
11:36
No
0
Can I just say I appreciate the detailed spreadsheet of game data?
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036083#Comment_4036083
Dbd stops being horror as soon as you get half decent at looping, who on earth got scared by old myers, maybe the little jumpscare when he was tier 1 but after that you knew the match was gonna be easy af if he didnt have tombstone, like looping him was literally one of the easiest things to do, he was just man with knife lmao.
As for the indicator I literally fail to see how the glowing knife is not clear, it glows A LOT, like you have to literally be looking at the sky to miss it, idk if you maybe play low on gamma or something cuz to me that weapon be glowing like a beacon.
No offense my dude, but like half the killer roster can be summed up as "man with knife." That's not saying much.
Console experience is very different to PC, for starters, constantly swivelling the camera is not anywhere near as fast, and the visibility of the glowing knife varies depending on:
-Weapon cosmetic
-What map you're on
-Where on that map you are
-Killer cosmeticAnd once again, a lot of HOH players have flagged the lack of Exposed status as being an accessibility issue, which I do agree with, but I also think that when people flag things as accessibility issues for their particular disabilities, they should be listened to.
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I actually agree, I didn't know that it didn't give BP for closing chests. It absolutely should!
I don't play killer nearly as much as survivor, but I feel like there's quite a few perks like this where it feels like using it should provide a BP event? There's a lot of things in killer gameplay I don't think provide nearly as much BP (if any) as they should.
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It looks terrible, it's less convenient for survivors, and the lack of the exposed indicator on the screen has been highlighted as a problem by HOH survivor players.
All in all it's just not great.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036083#Comment_4036083
DBD isnt horror for many years (its horror but soft except few brutal mories like true forms, krasue or larrys) and mayers like horror? For survivors with hours he was just guy staring at you and when he had tier 3 just jump into locker or hold a gen. For scratch mirrors jumpscares personaly survivors gave me biggest jumpscares since the games start like getting pallets stun ou of nowhere or 3 sables apear from 20 meters distance with flashlights when you pick up under pallet.
Myers was one of the final remaining things about the game that actually had any kind of horror to it, and it was something I, obviously, enjoyed.
For some survivors, sure, maybe that was the case. But you can't claim "for survivors with hours" this inherently the case. Because I have friends who've been playing the game for 5+ years, have thousands and thousands of hours, who feel exactly the same way about it that I do.
I think the re-work was a thematic gutting of him as a licensed character and as a killer who's been a part of DBD for most of its lifespan.
So agree to disagree I guess.
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Look I'm not saying other people can't enjoy new Myers. I'm just saying that personally, for me, the changes removed everything about him that I enjoyed.
I'm sure a lot of the changes probably feel good in terms of killer player QOL. But for me as a survivor? It just made him boring as hell. He's now spectacularly generic for me to go against. When I load into a match and I see that it's a Myers now, I'm not excited, I'm not scared, I'm not tense. I'm mostly just annoyed because I know I'm going to get insta-downed with no decent audio or visual cue and Mori'd as a guarantee. Every game against him feels exactly the same.
As a lifelong horror fan and an academic who specialises in horror media, I'll die on this hill. The Myers rework was one more huge step for DBD AWAY from being a horror game.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035504#Comment_4035504
As a killer player, I despise the overabundance of audio queues, and the fact that the one visual queue was removed is kind of backwards.
And no the glowing knife does not count, I hate that crap.
THANK YOU. I HATE THE GLOWING KNIFE THING.
Like on top of everything else in a chase you want me to be squinting to see whether or not his knife is glowing white? Especially when the 'glow' is basically invisible on certain cosmetics?
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Maybe this is a hot take but I absolutely loathe playing against new Myers.
I'll preface this by saying that prior to the rework, Myers was the killer I enjoyed playing against the most (well, tied with Xenomorph, as I'm a diehard Alien fan). This isn't to say that I escaped against him particularly often compared to other killers—I probably died more than I escaped against pre-rework Myers.
I don't hate new Myers because he's OP or I want him nerfed, I hate him because the rework removed every single thing that made him unique as a killer, that was fundamental to his themes and identity as a character, removed everything that made him frightening or made matches against him tense. On top of that, the rework added accessibility issues that disabled survivor players have highlighted several times.
I hate the Slaughtering Strike, I hate that there's no Exposed status when it's in play, I hate the changes to the musical sting, the speed increase, and I especially hate the basekit Tombstone.
One of the things that made Myers scary was the potential threat of being tombstoned. Nothing was more terrifying than an eerily quiet beginning to a game, only for abruptly, one of your teammates to get tombstoned. The tension, the panic, the fear, it was unparalleled. And the way survivors adjusted their playstyle when they didn't know if Tombstone was in play or not? Brilliant. Now it's just an annoying inevitability. It's not special, it's not scary, it's not tense. If you get hooked for a second time, you just kind of automatically assume you're gonna get grabbed and stabbed.
And truly one of the most terrifying and excellent games of DBD I've ever played was against an infnite tier 1 wallhack Myers, shortly before the rework. Me and my three friends all died, of course, but it was incredible and horrifically scary. Truly if that Myers player is out there, you're amazing.
Additionally, a key aspect of Myers in the game has been the slow stalking approach—it's unnerving because it's unlike any other killer in the game. It's persistance hunting at it's finest. It's the same uneasiness that's provided by the creature in It Follows. Which is something fairly unique in DBD. Or it was, anyway.
After the re-work, Myers just feels…generic. Nothing about him stands out as distinct from other killers in the line up. He's boring. I'd say I like going against him more than I do Plague or Legion, but y'know, that's the bar being on the floor and managing to step over it. Not much of an accomplishment, y'know?
So yeah, I hate new Myers with my entire bitter little soul. He's spectacularly mid and very boring.
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@Balrog said:
Please keep commentary respectful, on topic, and constructive.
I would argue that players discussing why they've stopped playing the game as much, their experiences in playing the game contributing to that fact, and their frustrations at broken promises from the developers time and time again on the feedback forum for the game could not be more on topic or constructive.
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I'm not sure that this will matter to anyone, but I figured some actual data (even if it's kind of anecdotal) might be helpful in terms of how the last few months of changes have impacted survivor players. I keep a spreadsheet, like an absolute lunatic, because I'm curious about this sort of thing. I track which killers I get when I'm playing as survivor, both in normal games and in 2v8. Which also obviously doubles as telling me how many matches I play as survivor. Keeping in mind that at least a solid 60-70% of the time, I would play with friends, so this is pretty indicative of a larger group of players.
1v4
August: 154
September: 135
October: 118
November: 332v8
August-September Event: 143
November Event: 70This doesn't include my killer games in either mode. But I feel like providing some actual numbers for how much playing survivor has dropped off for me might be indicative of how a lot of survivor mains have been feeling in recent months.
There was a sharp downturn in my own survivor play time and that of everyone I know (several of which have been DBD players for MANY YEARS longer than myself) right around when the devs completely walked back on the anti-slugging, anti-tunnelling changes after a handful of days in the PTB. This wasn't inherently just because of the devs decision, it was also about the reaction of a good number of killer players in game. By which I mean, almost overnight, the amount of tunnelling, slugging and camping I saw daily in games shot up violently. The problem wasn't great before, but after that PTB (which, I might add, absolutely none of the 'punishing changes for killers' were added to the game, only the nerfs to several survivor anti-tunnelling perks), it was horrific.
It was pretty common for some combination of my friend group to be playing survivor games basically every night of the week, now it's maybe once a week if that? No one I know wants to play anymore because it's just punishing. Even when I do manage to convince friends to play occasionally, where we previously would play dozens of games in one sitting, we're lucky to do more than three now before tapping out.
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Sadly, based on recent history, the devs would never allow survivors to have any item that impactful. Any new item additions will inevitably be nerfed into oblivion and bloodweb clutter.
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@notJustDante said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023250#Comment_4023250
I play both sides. I find Myers very fun to play against, just a matter of perspective.
And that's great, I'm glad you enjoy playing against him and as him.
But I find him incredibly generic and boring post-rework. Opinions gonna differ, y'know?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023217#Comment_4023217
Nah, the main thing that made him fun was emulating the films, and in his Sept 2023 mini rework, his stalk mechanic from range was the biggest part of that, and that doesn't function the way it did before. Myers was special, because he felt like Myers, now he doesn't feel like Myers both to play as, and play against.
For horror fans, the best part of Myers was this "does he, doesn't he?" question mark that always hung over him. You were always on alert for Myers stalking cause it could cause you a real problem if you didn't see him stalking.
Even when you didn't know the killer at the start of the trial, if you didn't hear a TR for see anyone enter chase for like 30s or you heard the piano keys, you started looking around frantically to make sure Myers wasn't stalking you and working on a Tombstone. Even when Myers wasn't in the trial, he still brought up the tension and the horror atmosphere.
The fragrent tuft add-on doesn't provide any of this. He is still missing his stalk range, he doesn't have his Mori threat, his Scratched Mirror sucks, and he doesn't have his Vanity Mirror either. All the interesting ways his add-ons modded the game and brought the horror theme more to life are gone... now he is just tall and silent Chucky. With the Fragrent Tuft add-on, generic killer number 6.
None of the things that made Michael Myers are here anymore. If people like new Myers, great, but please don't try to tell old fans of Myers they still have their killer... cause they don't.
All of this is exactly how I feel about it. You put it into words perfectly. There's nothing…Michael Myers about him anymore.
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I'm not a Myers main, or even a killer main—though I do play killer—and it's great that you're enjoying playing him, really. But from the perspective of a survivor? I…hate almost everything about new Myers. Not because he's "too OP" or anything like that, but just because the changes kind of stripped away all of his identity as a character and killer, and took away all the suspense or fear of a Myers match.
I just find him really profoundly boring to face now, whether I die or not. Before the rework, he was my favourite killer to play against, even though my escape rate against him was pretty terrible. Now? I mean…I like playing against him more than Legion or Plague I suppose, but that's pretty 'the bar is on the floor' standards.
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I never minded being tombstoned because like…the threat of potential tombstoning always made Myers games feel really tense. It made him as a killer legitimately scary because as a survivor you just didn't know.
That no longer being the case really kind of cheapened the whole thing for me.
I can see how that happening with Mori's as a whole, because while that change happened before I started playing, it really didn't take long for all the mori's to become incredibly boring and repetitive. It's not exciting or scary, it's just kind of annoying because it takes longer to queue up again.
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@cogsturning said:
I think the finisher mori has been the most quietly nefarious change for the game's overall feel and attitude in recent history and it's one of my most hated changes decisions. It feeds rhe 4k thirst. I don't even do it anymore as killer. I just hook the last person.
Moris also used to be a surprise. It's so boring and repetitive now.
This actually is something that I feel like is a problem that extends a little bit beyond that. The element of surprise. Like you said, it used to be a surprise to get Mori'd, it adds something to the suspense, y'know? But now it's just boring and inevitable and repetitive.
I feel much the same way about the Myers rework and his basekit tombstone ability. It took all the fear factor and surprise out of getting tombstoned, and now it's just boring because it's inevitable. You know it's going to happen. It's not surprising or tense or scary to wonder if it'll happen. That, truthfully, was one of the things that ruined Myers for me—who was my favourite killer to go up against before the rework.
I think they make these changes and they're well received in the short term (especially by killer mains) but in the long term they kind of detract from what makes DBD fun?
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I feel like the changes are a pretty good example of the devs main problem when it comes to anything that might improve survivor gameplay: A lot of their big streamers and a very vocal part of their community are killer mains, they don't want to piss them off, so they try and offer a lot of carrot and no stick to fix problems.
Except the carrot doesn't really seem to work, and they're too afraid to make any changes that might be perceived as the stick. If they really took the problems of tunnelling and slugging as seriously as they claim, they would actively discourage it—which would require some kind of punishment or nerf against killers that do so. But they aren't, and they won't.
I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, the whole update ends up making tunnelling worse or nerfing survivors into further abject misery. I know I can't speak for all players everywhere, but looking at my group of friends who a couple of months ago were all playing dozens if not more games per week (sometimes per day) now getting on for a handful of games once or twice a fortnight…I don't really feel optimistic about any of this.
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Same thing happened to me. I got hit through one of the stone walls on Temple of Purgation.
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I've never played as Myers (prior to the rework I did intend on giving him a try, but not anymore), but he was my favourite killer to go against as a survivor. Pretty sure I died most of the time against him, but he was still my favourite. Because unlike a lot of the killers, going against even a half decent Myers was goddamn scary. Like he was probably the only killer that when I spotted him approaching while I was on a generator, I was legitimately panicked/scared rather than just annoyed that I'd been interrupted from doing my generator.
I also really liked the potential threat of tombstone—because until suddenly, out of nowhere, one of your teammates got mori'd, you really didn't know whether or not you were getting tombstoned and that uncertainty was part of the scariness/fun.
So thematically, he was honestly the best. I loved going against him even if I did end up getting tombstoned.
Post rework he feels meh. The lunge attack is weird and lands hits it really shouldn't, all the additional sound effects kind of ruin the atmosphere, I hate that survivors don't get an 'exposed' status icon with his powers anymore, and quite frankly the in built tombstone kind of just…took all the scariness out of being mori'd by Myers.
Like I said, I can't speak from the perspective of a Myers main or anything (though based on comments here, people seem to have their problems on that front), but before the rework, Myers stood out. Going against him in a match was a unique experience, even compared to other stealth killers.
Now he feels generic. Boring. I don't hate going against him or anything, I'm just indifferent. It's not scary, it's not exciting, it's just kind of meh.
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@burt0r said:
Damn, cheating is "getting out hand" every few months when looking at the forums.
The cheating problem "getting out of hand" would require it ever having been in hand, which it hasn't.
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I definitely agree with upping the number of chests on a map.
Several times when I was doing a tome challenge (I believe there was one requiring opening three chests in a single match), it was absurdly hard to manage because most of the time another teammate had opened one before I could get to it. Even then, I felt kinda bad for doing it in case I was robbing someone of perk value or their own tome challenge by stealing all the chests.
It would increase the usefulness of chest perks, and also make keys more of a viable item to bring—which thus far I don't think the devs have succeeded a whole lot in achieving, despite their efforts.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/458638/anti-flashlight
I already mentioned it, but it's time for removing flashlight saves/flashbang saves as they are just extremely ez and unfun. If you get down and decide not to slug, you shouldn't be punished. Flashlight saves are outdated, same as hook grabs were. Time to remove them.
Yes well, you're the only person who thinks that flashlight saves and flashbangs should be removed from the game, no one else is asking for that.
@MadamTigs said:
Hello, I was thinking. Hear me out, I think you guys need to make an accessibility option for flashlights. I don't typically play killer but when I do and I don't run lightborn I end up having seizures because survivors are toxic sometimes and just flashlight after flashlight. I think there should be a way to replace the obnoxious brightness for a darker option. Like instead of the usual sun some of these flashlight users have, maybe my screen just turns black and gray. I just think it would improve the game for not only me but many others.
With regards to OP, I completely agree that this kind of accessibility option should be available—it's the sort of thing that should have been available from the start. The lack of accessibility options overall in DBD is pretty egregious. I know recently some deaf/HOH players raised concerns about the recent changes to Michael Myers causing them issues as well.
It feels like, as with a lot of things, accessibility concerns are really not taken as seriously by the devs as they should be.
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@chatgiraffe said:
Here's a scenario for you guys. Its the endgame collapse. The timer is ticking down. The last survivor(s) waiting at the very edge of the exit gate to Tbag. Why am I, The Killer, not allowed to Abandon the game in this situation?
It needs to be VERY clear that this is 100% just a BM/EGO thing for all survivors that do this. They will abandon the game the split second the last survivor hits the ground under the pretense of "oh well I just want to get to my next match faster" but this urgency to get out is nowhere to be seen when they're the ones winning.
BHVR has already implemented a feature where getting slugged too much in a match lets survivors ragequit, so we've obviously gone past the point of "erm! abandoning is only for when you cant do anything!!! you can still do stuff in EGC as the killer just try harder!!!" and is basically just "okay this match might be making you mad so here your BHVR-sanctioned gonext"
Bonus points if you can come up with an explanation that doesn't involve "I want the killer to force me to leave so they can see my tbagging"As a survivor main who has witnessed many a teammate either get slammed into the invisible exit wall and grabbed by Wesker or be sniped and reeled in by Deathslinger, I can say pretty conclusively that for the killer, the game literally is not over until all four survivors have actually exited.
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@angrychuck said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014824#Comment_4014824
I haven't played survivor in a bit, I did think that this changed had been pushed through but after checking the patch notes it hasn't. Still tenacity would have an effect as you would assume that the "anti-camp" function wouldn't rely on the recover function.
All good. We all thought those changes were getting pushed through, but as of when I got slugged yesterday by a huntress for 90% of the game, I can confirm, you can't crawl and recover. They already made the change to Tenacity to account for the change they didn't put through, so now it just provides a crawling speed bonus (half of the speed bonus it provided before, on top of the ability to crawl and recover).
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@angrychuck said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/458624/dying-state-changes-pitch
I know this complaint will sound silly but couldn't the anti-camp feature that you propose technically be abused since a survivor can now recover and move? If the killer left the slug theoretically the slug could just try and follow the killer so that they could pick themselves up.
I dunno what game you've been playing, but survivors can't recover and move at the same time. That was one of those anti-slugging changes that the devs basically threw in a dumpster when people complained about the PTB. They can't even do that with tenacity now, because it got nerfed also.
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Over the last few months I've definitely gone from playing dozens of games every night to getting on maybe twice a week to play a couple of games—if my friends aren't playing to party up with, then I rarely last more than 3 survivor games in Solo Queue, occasionally I play a handful of killer games, but nowhere near as many as when 2v8 was running. Truthfully, the only reason I've played at all this week was because I'm a diehard AOT fan and was really happy to see the skins come back.
There's a lot of reasons I've been playing less, which all have contributed to some degree.
- The AFK crow situation a few patches back really left a sour taste in my mouth as a player who relies on stealth more than aggressive chase gameplay.
- The inability to take my chances on hook when I'm very clearly being left for dead in solo queue also definitely isn't helping. It feels like another way in which survivor player autonomy and agency is being totally stripped away.
- As soon as the devs even mentioned that anti-tunnelling and anti-slugging measures were being tested on the PTB, there was a sharp uptake in both behaviours in my games that is still ongoing and making the game really unpleasant to borderline unplayable.
- The devs walking back several changes or additions that were predominantly benefitting survivor players basically immediately (the anti-tunnel, anti-slugging, fog vials, etc) really kind of destroyed any faith I had in any ongoing problems improving.
- TWD chapter being an absolute disaster. Not only the bugs, but also just…the Fallen Refuge map was such a slap in the face. I didn't even buy the chapter and I felt wronged by all of that, I cannot imagine how angry people who purchased those characters were with the bugs, the map, and the fact that almost immediately the new perks they got were either nerfed or kill switched.
- This Rift is an absolute disgrace and a cashgrab in every sense of the word. The price remaining the same meanwhile providing us with substantially less rewards, on top of the fact that one of only two free skins is such a bastardisation of the design we were promised? Appalling.
- The devs response to the outrage about this Rift is somehow even worse. "Sorry we're totally ***ing you over with this Rift, no we won't do anything to fix it. Maybe on the next one in four months."
- New Tome with no little quests? Terrible.
- Michael Myers was one of my favourite killers to go up against before his recent rework, even though I died against him more often than not. The rework, in my opinion, kind of took away everything that made him fun—and genuinely scary—to face as a survivor.
- While not directly part of the game, the general attitude I've seen from a lot of players on this forum in response to others—usually survivor mains—expressing their concerns and problems they're having with the game has definitely soured my opinion of the community and the game in general.
- The last one is petty and probably just a personal preference thing but I really goddamn hate Springtrap. Everything about him I dislike immensely. If I never saw that goddamn rabbit again, it would be too soon. The only thing he has going for him is the Matthew Lillard skin.
I probably missed some things in this absolute essay I just wrote but I've been thinking about this a lot. Mostly because I went from playing so much to playing very little, and as a lifelong horror fan and an academic who specialises in the horror genre, it makes me kinda sad.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014097#Comment_4014097
And this is exactly what I’m talking about. If killers complain about bully squads, they get told it’s not a real problem.
And if killers complain about gen rushing, they get told it’s not a real problem.
The main theme is killer problems “aren’t real”, and BHVR shouldn’t spend time fixing them, and instead, all the time and effort should be spent on making the survivor experience better.
The point isn't "killer problems aren't real", the point is YOU on a thread about survivor issues trying to derail the entire discussion to talk about anything but survivor issues.
If you think that bully squads, or gen rushing are a problem, make a thread about those issues to discuss it. Don't repeatedly derail a different thread talking about problems that are impacting predominantly survivor players. I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that killer is a perfect role and that there aren't issues there that probably need to be addressed by the devs.
But this isn't the time or place for those conversations, especially when they're only brought up to draw attention away from issues other people are having.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I'm just going to jump in and point out something about the forums meta here.
This thread. Right here. It's exactly the problem with discussing anything about tunneling.
It applies to far, far more, but you can look at the history of posts on this forum, and every single time recently that there's been a thread gaining traction about survivor issues (which is usually tunneling) we get this:
A completely derailed thread from a small handful of extremely loud and insanely biased (to the point of being just rage bait) commenters who take a thread about "when are we getting the postponed changes" into "punish them harder".
Which wouldn't be so frustrating, except this is the exact kind of tactic that gets anti tunneling pulled (effectively cancelled for all we know at this point) on day 2, and also could get "go next" tuned up to punish even more innocent players with penalties.
You simply cannot have a discussion about this problem because a few people just have to do this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9UHBRD7C9SCN/1000010969.jpg
And they'll just keep doing it because it's worked for years.
I hate how accurate this is. It feels like every thread about an issue that predominantly affects survivors—whether it be pure venting or a genuine attempt to have a discussion/suggest solutions—rapidly gets turned into 'BUT WHAT ABOUT KILLERS'.
There's a time and a place, and the fact that it happens on basically every thread about a problem survivor players have is infuriating and really gives the impression that some people forget at any given time there are FOUR OTHER PEOPLE in a game with you. Your experience is not the only one that matters.