littlehoot
littlehoot
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You mean force a play style like the way every patch basically makes it increasingly impossible for survivors to have any play style that isn't incredibly aggressive and chase based? That kind of forcing a place style on survivors?
I don't support all that 'us vs them' stuff, but quite frankly, if Killer mains now feel like the devs are forcing a particular play style on them, perhaps they'll finally have some empathy for how frustrating it's been as the devs have aggressively done the same to survivors time and time again. But in all likelihood, very few, if any, of these changes are likely to actually be put into the game past the PTB in their current state.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988280#Comment_3988280
No one is angel but just pure toxic behavior comes from survivor more often than from killer, when killer is toxic there is more logical reason why he is toxic more than when survivor is toxic.
Have you considered that you see more toxic behaviour from survivors because you literally have to encounter four times as many survivors compared to killers? Not because survivors are inherently more toxic, but because you literally have to encounter VASTLY more survivor players than killers through normal gameplay?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988164#Comment_3988164
Why is it always that toxic Survivors are just the pure evil and toxic Killers are only toxic because they had a frustrating match before this?
Both sides have toxic people. Toxic DBD-players are toxic because they are toxic, not because they play "role I currently dont play".
This is a good point that I see coming up a lot when this gets discussed. When killer mains are complaining about toxic survivors, they're evil, awful, the worst! But when a survivor main complains about toxic killers, it's always kind of spun around again to be survivors fault because the killer just had a "bad game" beforehand.
But when killers are aggressively camping, hard tunnelling off hook, mocking survivors, humping downed survivors, pretending to show 'mercy' only to mori them a few inches from freedom, it's seemingly justified. When these things happen, I don't go into my next match and decide I'm going to make life hell for that killer even if I'm frustrated.
I think there's definitely a double standard and a great lack of empathy from both killer mains and survivor mains for the other side of the equation. But both sides get incredibly defensive when you point that out.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987987#Comment_3987987
So run more medic classes and stay away from your teammates until they're injured and the Legion is gone. As rare as Legions are in 2v8, he still has the same old easy counterplay of just splitting up, which still shouldn't be too difficult with a 2nd killer. The hard part is the chances of you getting 7 teammates in a single lobby who have common sense like that is next to none, almost no solo queue teammate, let alone 2V8 ones where theres no MMR, have absolutely no clue what they're doing majority of the time.
I'm just going to say this right now with proof: Legion is not rare in 2v8. Because I'm a lunatic with a spreadsheet of what killers I face, I can confirm that in 2v8, at least on the servers I'm on, Legion is THE MOST COMMON KILLER. By a WIDE margin at that.
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@ThatRyanB said:
I totally hear the frustration here and know I personally can't change how these nerfs feel for you, but I do want to make sure the feedback I'm bringing back to the team is as specific as possible and as representative of your experiences in the game as possible. With that, it makes it easier to advocate for changes.
If you don't mind me pulling this back a step to dig into the details, I'd like to ask two specific questions:
1. Of the two recent nerfs to Fog Vials (reduced opacity; max 2 charges), do you feel that one of these in particular pushed the item from feeling viable to feeling like it's not worth using? If so, which was it?
2. If you could make one specific change to Fog Vials that'd push them towards being an item you'd enjoy using, what would it be?
I hear the more general feedback (and rest assured, it's being collected and shared with the team), but if there are specific facets of the recent nerfs that felt most impactful, I want to make sure I'm giving them my particular attention. That, and things that could make Fog Vials feel better for you (like the great suggestions of increasing the total charges a little more).Quite frankly, unless both changes made (the opacity + the pitifully low amount of charges) are either totally reverted or heavily improved, I don't think I'll ever use them. When I find them in chest, in game, I usually stick with my empty toolbox or med kit over taking one at this point, because they don't do anything of benefit to me as a survivor.
Without both of those nerfs undone, I'd much rather just have the bloodpoints I've been forced to waste on them and their add on's back, because they're fundamentally useless to me, and just pointlessly accumulating in my inventory.
Promising survivors a fun new item, letting us have it in an actually useable form for a whole two days before destroying it in the same fell swoop that maps and keys were destroyed feels less like balancing and more like a kick in the teeth honestly.
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Yesterday I was playing solo queue, loaded into a game and the second we all heard the glass bottle breaking sound, indicating the killer was clown, all three of my teammates DC'd on the spot. Honestly? I don't even blame them, playing against him is miserable.
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I completely agree. I'm not even totally convinced keys and maps are worth their cost in BP. Fog vials (+ add on's) and map offerings are worth less than nothing and are actively just a waste of BP that the devs won't let us avoid.
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I was beginning to wonder if it was just me, but I've had this happen three times in the past week, where I am very visibly not standing in the trap, going to disarm it and getting vaccuumed into it?
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@MrMori said:
I've felt the same way for a while. Postgame chat is practically unmoderated unless you say very specific slurs, threats or illegal things. Sure, you can hide it, but everyone knows you can technically see it. I'd like the devs to take a serious look at post game chat and figure something out other than "Just hide it" to how toxic it is, especially in higher skill games or with more sweaty players.
I've written this in many posts on the forum already but I think people would be less toxic if it was possible to completely disable endgame chat, and any player with chat disabled had an icon on the postgame screen where it clearly showed that they don't have chat enabled, so there's no point in lashing out at them as they can't read it. That "no chat" icon would be helpful to see whose on console vs epic games store too. And it would lead to less chat to moderate for BHVR since there would be less chat in general. If you wanted to communicate with someone that has chat disabled, no worries, just add them in DBD and invite them to a party, or add them on their platform of choice unless they're anon mode.
For now, if you're bothered by post game chat I'd just keep it closed, or just immediately press continue, unless you want to check their builds and profiles or something. I find there isn't all that much to discuss, it's not like you can queue up with the survivors you match against if you're playing killer. Also, I that think the game having no chat bans and only having game bans is bad, because that means the only action BHVR can take against toxic chat is a full on game ban, which is too drastic to me. Every big online game I know has separate bans for game bans and chat bans. You should be allowed to play even though you're extremely toxic every single post game chat, but ideally you shouldn't be allowed to engage in chat at all if you can't behave. Honestly though, people could say whatever they wanted in post game chat for all I care as long as I could disable the feature completely and everyone could see I had it disabled, but for now just hiding it and moving on is the next best thing.
As a console player who doesn't have access to endgame chat, trust me when I say, people find plenty of ways to be toxic and unkind even without in game endgame chat. I just don't think that the devs and moderators of the community have done much of anything to foster any real empathy or kindness between players. Which is why you have rude SWFs like the one OP described, or killers that give a slugged survivor the hope of hatch just to slam it shut in their face.
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I had this happen last night. I loaded into the game in the killers terror radius. I literally had not moved, the little 'loading in' animation finished, and I was in the killers terror radius. Which means it wasn't a matter of something like Lethal Pursuer or a fast killer, we all just loaded into the match clustered together, killer and all.
It's ridiculous because depending on the killer, that means the game can be over in about 30 seconds.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3980001#Comment_3980001
I was having so much fun with them. My actual value was iffy, but I was starting to get crafty with them. Doing some unpredictable twists and turns that sent the killer in a totally wrong direction was crazy satisfying. As killer, the rare moment of an organized team using them against me to protect their weaker teammates was quite well done. It had so much potential for a new element to the game. But God forbid we break up the monotony of running in circles around the shack.
I was starting to see some really fun plays—and lots of different plays. It wasn't just one scenario where they were being used, people were already getting really creative with them and I was honestly loving that even without really using them myself very much. It felt like the item really had potential for some new interesting strategies and techniques to come about that would've made matches exciting again.
So of course we had to nerf them into uselessness. God forbid survivors have any fun.
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I whole heartedly agree. I was really excited about them—during the brief period they weren't useless, I saw some teammates really using them for some amazing and creative plays. I really was ready to, for once, not bring my tool box to give them a go. Then they got nuked into oblivion.
Now they—and their add on's—join maps, keys and map offerings as useless bloodweb clutter I wish I didn't have to waste my bloodpoints on.
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@Elan said:
I feel like ST is on sweet spot. I don't see reasons to boost him, neither to nerf him. He feels just right. Great zoning, strong antiloop, insane map mobility.
I disagree heavily, if you get hit with the axe, it's almost impossible to escape chase with him. The speed boost survivors get for being hit is basically pointless as a result of it.
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The Animatronic: I find him to be miserable and overpowered. I don't enjoy his mechanics—especially the axe-in-the-back—and I find the whole 'yelling in your face' thing just obnoxious and annoying rather than a jumpscare. The week of his release was a long and painful one.
The Plague: her mechanics are just gross and unpleasant. They're not frightening or intense, just gross. Generally when I have a match against her, I just want it to be over with.
The Knight: guaranteed to proxy camp you on hook. Also I find his summons annoying (again, stop yelling at me), and the inevitable pinch/sandwich strat just sucks.
Special mention to the Twins because early on in my time playing DBD, I encountered a bug in which I could not remove Victor from my back and the repetitive grunting and shrieking noises he makes now just make me want to slam my head into a wall.
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I actually have this same issue on PS5 at the moment
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Despite all the salty comments about Ghoul on the forum, I legitimately don't mind playing against him as a survivor. There are many killers that I dislike playing against a whole lot more. I think that while there's a very vocal contigent of people who dislike him as a killer, it's not as much of the player base as you would expect given the state of these forums.
So yeah, I think you should play him if he makes you happy as a character. I'll take a Ghoul over the Animatronic any day.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969062#Comment_3969062
what you're seeing in your games is people not bothering to play better because the killer doesnt push them to do so as he is already weak enough without pushing survivors to resort to use countermechanic.
time passes and in spite of that people will realize how OP doors are for survivors.
Maybe, and if that time comes it will be a different story. But at this stage if the doors or some other aspect of Springtrap were buffed to compensate for the doors, I don't think I'd be the only person who would completely loathe playing against him and want to just get out of there as quickly as possible. He already feels oppressive in terms of map pressure, anything more and he'd be unbearable.
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To be completely honest? There are many killers that I either dislike going against or find boring to go against vastly more than Ghoul. I honestly don't mind playing against him, before the balancing changes he was a bit much, but these days? I genuinely don't mind him as a killer.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968390#Comment_3968390
idk about mmr, im just saying that optimal play involves using doors vs this killer decent amount of time and pretty much every usage coincidences with a timing when he is either completely unable to do anything about it or hypothetically could but is none the wiser.
like the timing to do the door grab if you are not by the door already is insanely small, it's about 3 seconds if you actually react to whichever few poor warnings the game is capable to give you because 2 seconds from 5 second traversal animation are eaten by your own entrance animation.
assuming you even know where they're going.
that's why the whole "doors are too risky to use" sentiment is people not understand what theyre talking about, unfortunately. it's very easy to avoid door grabs EVEN IF the killer is following you as long as you have some distance on them at least / have a teammate ready to take aggro for a moment.
people are beginning to catch on and it's not going to be good for springtrap. he needs to at least not outright lose the survivor and have some warning they're about to do something.
meanwhile cams are basically obsolete, all theyre good for is making sure the killer isnt going to enter the door you're headed to, literally a matter of a 2 second check if you dont know where the killer is.
I'm not talking about "optimal play" because essentially no one is playing completely and totally 'optimally'. I'm talking about what I actually see in game, which is that even if hypothetically, the doors could be used to some huge advantage for survivors, most survivors won't use them. So buffing the doors or something else to compensate for the doors would just make Springtrap utterly miserable to play against.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968097#Comment_3968097
survivors use doors and use them a lot, you simply have no way to know when and do anything about it.
cameras can be buffed.
springtraps "getting angry" means nothing when they have no idea where you can be because you could be anywhere near one of the 7 doors which the killer cannot check fast enough.
Maybe we're just in different MMRs or on different servers, but I would say about one in every ten games I have against a Springtrap, a survivor uses the doors in any way. So in my experience, no, survivors don't use the doors. Of all the killers who have mechanics that survivors can or have to interact with (Xenomorph's flame turrets, Singularities zappers, etc), I see the doors used the least.
Personally, I won't touch the doors because even if you don't immediately get grabbed (unlikely), the reward is not worth the time or the risk it takes.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966703#Comment_3966703
It wont but now he isnt best tunneler anyway and all that depends on rng when doors spawn next to the hook and survivors just can move few meters and dont heal under hook if they think he will come back and try to tunnel or go after rescuer because he didnt found anybody, personaly I dont think he even needs that he cant camp in the doors either theres anticamp so he must move away to other doors and then come back which isnt that fast and survivors can just run away. On xeno theres more need for this because he can wait under the tunnel and see whos coming if the hook is near but still he doesnt need that either this is just something from old times and maybe after new anticamp and antitunnel changes there wont be need for slowing killers mobility throught his portals when coming back to the hook, just wait with what devs will come out and then look if this change is realy necessary.
I feel like RNG is a pretty loose way of describing his door spawns. I've never seen one of Springtraps doors spawn more than 5-10 meters from a generator or a hook. Often times, both.
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@dbd900bach said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965864#Comment_3965864
Its already been quite awhile. I'm asking what's next because Springtrap has already settled in a consistent spot, and he is one of the best selling characters in the game.
From a certain standpoint, something does have to be done either from a sales or development perspective.
It's been slightly over a month. Some killers who've been out for much longer haven't seen much significant change. My personal feelings on him as a killer aside, he's probably fine to leave alone for a while as he is, given that we seem to finally be getting adjustments for killers who have been out years longer and needed those changes.
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My guy, you can't nerf having friends. That just isn't how that works. Quite frankly, as someone who plays survivor both solo queue and with friends (sometimes up to a 4 person SWF), while it definitely helps game play to have teammates who aren't going to leave me on hook, try to feed me to the killer, or abandon even when a rescue is very possible, we still lose a lot of games, rarely manage a 4 man escape.
Some people on these forums act like inherently a SWF group is going to curb stomp any killer into the ground, and it just ain't true.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967616#Comment_3967616
I don't think there should be a limit but how often do you see more than two regression perks in a game?
Multiple times a day, every day I play. Killers love a regression perk these days.
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I'm of a similar opinion. I main survivor, but I do play killer decently often. If I ever have a survivor rat out their teammate, that survivor dies, whoever got ratted out gets hatch. We all love a friendly killer now and then, but snitching on your teammates? Sleazy as hell.
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I'm going to preface this by saying that while I get where you're coming from, I don't exactly agree with everything that's being said.
I do think that the rush of licensed killers is a bit much, and I don't totally agree with the choices for licensing. It feels like the game is moving away from it's original horror film themes, which makes me sad—I'm a lifelong horror fan, and an academic who writes predominantly about horror in popular culture. Dead By Daylight's origins as a love letter to classic horror films is very dear to my heart. I'd love to see more original killers from the devs, or more killers that are rooted in the same kind of classic iconic horror that we saw a lot more of in the earlier days of the game.
Balancing is not a bad thing. I get the appeal of having to kind of struggle through and figure out how to counter certain things. A fond pasttime of mine & my partner's is playing extreme trials and raids in FFXIV together with zero knowledge of the mechanics, and having to just trial and error our way to success as a duo in what's supposed to be a four to eight player match. So trust me, I am a huge fan of having to trial and error and figure out how best to counter certain mechanics and techniques. But the problem is, the vast majority of balancing that is happening is happening specifically because there is no reasonable counterplay. You have to remember that balancing can't just be for top MMR players, it has to be for the majority of the playerbase.
Quite frankly, a lot of people live in situations where they simply don't have the time or energy to grind heavily in every game they enjoy. People have work, people have school, people have families, personal responsibilities, pets, homes to take care of, errands, friends, and a life outside of playing DBD. If you're in a position where you always have an excess of time to play DBD, good for you! But that's a privilege and simply not the reality for a lot of players. FOMO is, at its core, a predatory marketing practice, and would just be bad for the longeveity of the game and consistency of it's player base.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958303#Comment_3958303
And no Blight, Nurse, Ghoul, or Skully would ever get a match again. The matchmaking system is already ragged enough as it is, but as much as I like the idea (especially regarding accessibility issues like phobias or neurological issues, since many still remain in the game) even a single ban per lobby would make the matchmaking system even worse than it already is.
I feel like you're making a pretty sweeping generalisation about player opinion, and the degree to which players would use this system. All those killers you listed? I genuinely enjoy playing against, and I am by no means an incredibly skilled player. There are always going to be some bad faith actors in the playerbase, that's just statistics, but it's honestly not a terrible idea.
Also everyone has this idea that 'the matchmaking system is already bad enough, this will only make it worse', but if the matchmaking system is that bad anyway, shouldn't we be trying to push for changes? Even if those changes don't improve queue times, if they improve the quality of the games we do play, wouldn't that be a good thing?
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@theTARNavsky said:
I have a similar issue with the same quest, on PS5. However it's not only that I can't progress or pin it, but I actually had it complete before the new chapter release. It was on 200/200 and on the chapter release day it reverted to 60/200, making my completed quests lower.
I'm in the same boat on PS5! Can't progress or pin it, and prior to this I'd already finished the quest but now it's just there and I can't do anything about it.
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I've said it many times already and I'll say it again: I loathe the new AFK system. Truly, and with my whole chest, I hate it. But I will try to make clear the reasons why.
First of all, the very name is wrong. Nothing about this system has anything to do with players being AFK. If a player is sprinting across the map, they are not AFK. They should not be getting AFK crows. To refer to it as an anti-AFK system is completely disingenuous. It is a system that effectively punishes survivors for not playing the game in a certain way. That's all.
Which is another thing: this 'AFK' system inherently targets and punishes a specific playstyle, one that up until now has been a key aspect of gameplay. Stealth is literally built into the game design as a core element—that's why we have stealth perks, that's why non-stealthy actions (like running, fast vaulting, throwing pallets) is punished with consequences that alert the killer to the survivors location. That's a fundamental aspect of gameplay. If you aren't stealthy, if you just sprint the entire time, throw pallets, fast vault, blow up the generators, the killer will find you, and you will die.
But this patch does nothing but punish survivors for being stealthy.
It also punishes inexperience. Because you know who is most likely to hide in a locker a little too long or be a little unsure, a little skittish? New players. Just like the anti 'go next' system was disproportionately falsely flagging new players, the 'AFK' system does the same. This is a game that already has an incredibly high entry skill threshold. It's not an easy game to be a newbie at. The tutorial is limited and terrible, most perks and add on's are poorly explained, if really explained at all. So of course, new players are going to be more hesitant, and they will get crows, and those crows will get them killed.
It also encourages quick, panicked action over any meaningful strategy or gameplay. Because you have to do something quickly (but only the right things, because many actions don't actually count as 'playing' the game according to the 'AFK' crows) or you'll essentially be snitched on to the killer.
Also, for myself and for friends I've spoken to who I play the game with pretty regularly, some of whom have thousands of hours (way more than me!) have expressed that the changes to the 'AFK' system make games feel stressful and anxiety inducing—and not in a fun, tense, horror way. In a 'I'm so overly concerned about whether or not I'm doing enough quickly enough or doing the right things in order to avoid getting crows that I'm genuinely not having very much fun'.
So in conclusion: I think the system should be taken out back and shot. When the devs have come up with a functional system for dealing with this incredibly overblown issue of 'AFK' players, one that has been playtested extensively before going live, I'll happily give it a go and hear them out on how it could be good for the game.
But the 'AFK' system that launched with 9.0.0? That ain't it.
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I agree that the anti-camp meter definitely needs to be buffed. Though I'd like to add that I think proxy camping needs to be addressed. The most obvious example that I've experienced (numerous times) is the Knight and his AI summons. Many times I've been on hook and he just slaps one of those down right at my feet, meaning no one can unhook me without taking hits from the summon, without a lick of anti-camp meter progress.
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@iuse2bgood said:
Besides the tiny amount of points?
Avoiding the "go next" penalty that will flag you as doing something wrong if you miss too many skill checks.
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@VibranToucan said:
"the New hook system, being forced to be kept in a sh***y match where there's slugging and camping, etc."
You are not forced to stay in the match, you can just DC.
But you see the idea is wanting to leave a bad, doomed and unfun match, to go play a better match. Which you can't do if you DC, because you'll get slapped with a DC penalty. Because the devs apparently enjoy punishing their players instead of making their game functional.
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Honestly? I find it to be a huge downside to playing as a survivor. I say this as someone who never uses hook to kill myself (unless I am hooked and there is only one survivor left with no chance of saving me, in order to give them a chance to get hatch).
So it's not an option I take very often, trying to unhook myself, but having the option taken away unless I specifically run particular perks or offerings honestly feels bad. Having that 'hail mary' option even if it was super unlikely to work, makes a lot of matches feel doomed where otherwise they wouldn't have.
The game, for so long, has thrived because players come up with different and varied strategies to try and win. That's why it doesn't feel repetitive versing most killers, because one Hag might have totally different tactics to another one. But the recent changes feel like stripping so many choices from survivors that it's making it feel like there's only one "right" way to play.
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Incredibly lackluster from a design perspective. It literally feels like they took Greenvale Square, removed the movie theater and slapped down a so-so pizza parlour in the middle of it. Like it doesn't feel very unique or different, and it's kinda small? At least it feels kind of cramped to play in honestly.
Honestly it just feels incredibly MEH.
I haven't played killer on it yet, but I've played a decent amount of times as a survivor. It seems decently balanced, but I suppose from what was supposed to be such a highly anticipated licensed chapter—and for the anniversary—it just wasn't as great or interesting a map as I hoped it would be.
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I can confirm this is happening on console. At least on PS5.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945506#Comment_3945506
If you'd like to share it here on the forums, the two approaches we see used most commonly are attaching the video to a comment (using the paperclip button) or sharing the link to an unlisted YouTube video. Either way, please don't hesitate to tag me in the comment where you share it so I can make sure it's shared with the team immediately.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946108#Comment_3946108
That's a good question! With the examples you provided, the concerns and relevant feedback tend to be quite straightforward, making it easier to draw a line between a player's feedback, their perception, and the change itself. There's an immediacy to these issues (i.e. I used Xenomorph's tail attack and it was sluggish) that generally relies on a direct statement like "I experienced this at this given moment," which can often be easily conveyed in text.
Where the AFK Crows topic differs is that there is a lot more nuance involved. This is a system that takes a longer period of gameplay time into account - not just the moment at which a player gets their first crow - which makes it more difficult to rely just on text-based recounts of what happened. This is because there are so many variables that could be coming into play - often extending further back than a player may anticipate. For instance, how long were you running vs. walking vs. standing still? Was the Killer nearby? Did you interact with a gen and if so, for how long? If we have footage of these occurrences, it allows our teammates to better understand these more of these nuances and react to the specific gameplay situations.
All this said, the best way I can be an advocate for the community if there's a potential issue, is to make sure I have as detailed feedback as possible. And in this specific case, video is the most valuable form of feedback we can get. I promise you, your concerns aren't being missed.
In theory, I get where you're coming from.
But in practice given that by and large the feedback is very clearly and bluntly "Get rid of the entire system, we hate it", I don't feel like video evidence is all that necessary. The feedback, at least from the bulk of people I've spoken to, is "I experienced the new AFK and anti go next system while playing, and it worsened my game experience significantly".
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@ThatRyanB said:
One important caveat here is that if a Survivor is actively moving or close to the Killer, the rate at which these AFK points accumulate behind the scenes is greatly slowed. This means that players should still have ample opportunities to opt for stealth where necessary.
It's not lost on me, though, that we're seeing some reports of folks who say they're receiving crows in the course of regular gameplay. The best way we can help relay your experiences to the team is through concrete evidence, so if you've encountered this, please do share video footage of this with us, ideally including the 2-4 minutes of footage before the crow shows up. This way, we can provide much more detail on the specific gameplay that led to this circumstance.
I understand that you're asking for videos of the situations people have been talking about—and I'm certain that video evidence of these incidents will start to pile up fairly quickly, and I will be doing my best to record my own run ins where I can—but here's the thing:
I, along with a lot of other people, don't want the dev team to try and bug fix this AFK and anti go next system. I want the entire system nuked from orbit, gone, completely reverted. While I get that you were trying to address a concern that (some) of the community had, there is no feasible way to have this system exist in game without either screwing over people who have done nothing wrong and are just playing the game, or without totally stripping away agency, choice and enjoyment from a large chunk of your player base.
Additionally: this entire system is actively hostile against new players, during the release of a chapter that has brought in record amounts of new players—who are not going to stick around as a result.
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@Moofy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945794#Comment_3945794
THIS THIS THIS^^^^^
Why on earth would you implement a system that actively harms new players? Especially at one of the most anticipated Killer launches drawing in many FNAF fans. The gist of this "change" basically says to survivors run around out in the open and don't hide so the killer can get their 4k or else. Its like they want people to be instantly good with a new killer and they only way around that is to nerf survivor gameplay into the ground. What happened to actually attempting to get good at the role you are playing? People will still DC if they feel they are being treated unfairly and just go play something else.
I've literally already seen comments and stories from people on reddit about friend's trying out the game with the release of the new chapter and ultimately refunding the game because of how hostile these changes are to new players. That's going to happen a lot more. Especially because DBD was already incredibly unfriendly to new players, but this? This is actively hostile game design.
Regardless of what the intention of this system was, ultimately what it is saying to the player base is "if you're bad at the game, or even just still learning, you don't deserve to play".
Quite frankly it reminds me of how in certain wealthy neighbourhoods in the US, they have spikes on everything to prevent birds from landing on structures and—gasps—pooping on their fancy sports cars. The system takes already limited agency away from players and then tries to tell them because they aren't "good enough" by some arbitrary standard, that they don't get to play the game they paid money for.
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The go next prevention and new AFK system just feels like it's punishing survivors for doing…anything. Survivor players have just had numerous options taken away from them, choices they no longer get to make. We can't choose to try and take our chances when we know in the context of our matches that no one is getting to us in time. We can't choose to sacrifice ourselves on hook speedily in the hopes of our final teammate getting hatch. We can't play stealthy. We can't hide to wait for a killer to leave the area before getting back to our objective. We can't use certain perks now without copping a DC penalty even when we escape a match. We can't hunt for hex totems either when hexed or pre-emptively.
We're even punished for not contributing to the objectives when we're literally lying on the ground bleeding to death because the only thing a survivor can do in that situation is crawl, and that's not good enough to not warrant AFK crows apparently. The only action we can take in that scenario isn't considered "playing the game".
And the worst part is it didn't help anything!
People are still DC-ing! People are still going next! Killers are now actively tunnelling survivors more ruthlessly than ever! And these new systems only seem to be punishing people who did NOTHING WRONG!
Not to mention how unfriendly this new system is to beginner players. As if the game wasn't already EXTREMELY unfriendly to new players, now if they're hesitant and trying to play sneaky, the crows will give them away and they'll get tunnelled. If they fail skill checks, y'know because they're new and haven't learned how to yet, they'll be accused of trying to 'go next' and get slapped with a DC penalty.
If I started playing the game for the first time today under these circumstances, I'd never stick with it beyond a few matches. To launch this system with a chapter you KNEW was going to bring in a lot of new players is baffling. Those players aren't going to stick around because your game design is now ACTIVELY HOSTILE towards them.
Truly I cannot put into words how much I loathe this new system. All it's done is take choices away from survivor players and PUNISH people trying to play the game.
And for all the people who are claiming that there's nothing wrong with the system or that it's great: I hope you enjoy your painfully long queue times, because they're only gonna get worse from here.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944536#Comment_3944536
The more I read about how the system works it seems like they killed stealth play.
That would be correct, yes.
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@wish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943522#Comment_3943522
I understand where you're coming from, but this actually highlights exactly why the current system is flawed.
Yes, slugging for the sake of avoiding the hatch game is often seen as abusive or unpleasant. But under the current system, even when a Killer downs all Survivors fairly and legitimately, the final Mori can still be ruined if the last player disconnects or surrenders, resulting in a bot standing in for the final cinematic. That completely undermines the Mori as a reward that the Killer worked for throughout the entire match.
Your argument basically says: "If the Killer played in an annoying way, it's okay to deny them the Mori." But this creates an unhealthy precedent — it allows certain survivors to weaponize surrender as a way to spite the Killer, regardless of whether the Killer played fairly or not. This isn't about "making it personal," it's about protecting the integrity of an earned mechanic that both sides are aware of from the start.
That's why my suggestion includes a safeguard: If the Killer slugs and stalls excessively (e.g. 60 seconds or more), survivors should still have the ability to surrender to prevent trolling or griefing. But if the Killer is actively playing and ready to finish the Mori, the last real player should remain to preserve the competitive and cinematic payoff that makes the Mori meaningful.
In short:
The problem isn't just slugging — it's that the current system throws out the entire Mori experience even in clean games. My proposal addresses both abuse cases and fair play, without stripping the Killer of a reward they legitimately earned.Another player sitting through the Mori animation is not the 'reward the killer legitimately earned'. The reward is they won the match. The reward is that they killed another player at all, presumably in the case of most Mori's, they killed all the other players in the match.
Also I wouldn't call survivors escaping a "passive result". It is their hard earned reward for their gameplay: they get to escape without dying. Just like the killers reward is killing the survivors.
No one is denying you, or any killer, the earned mechanic of performing a Mori. The fact that you feel that you're being denied something by a survivor not sitting through the same animation they've probably already seen dozens of times for your emotional fulfillment seems more like a subjective, personal gameplay opinion than any kind of flaw in the game design.
If that cheapens your personal experience, that sucks, everyone deserves to have a fun gameplay experience. But the game design cannot change to account for everyone's personal preferences. Forcing survivors to watch the Mori would just be forcing them into that same situation. So while I respect your opinion and your personal stance on what makes for fulfilling gameplay, it fundamentally does not make a difference from a game design standpoint if the final 'survivor' being Mori'd is still being observed by a player—it doesn't change anything about the Mori cutscene. There's no gameplay aspect on the part of the survivor—human or bot—during the Mori. It's literally just a cutscene.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944974#Comment_3944974
Has any of them recorded any of these matches?
Without recorded matches, I’m not sure if the AFK rules have bugs in them, or if people are spending large amounts of time not interacting with stuff but feel that they are honestly trying to progress the game.
The majority of people, myself included, don't typically record our matches.
The new AFK system obviously has bugs. But even if it was working perfectly and exactly as described in the patch notes, the system would still be TERRIBLE and a detriment to gameplay.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944955#Comment_3944955
We all know how much of a disaster this new system is, but something that I think also needs to be pointed out for feedback to BHVR is a broader problem of these kinds of things getting into the live game to begin with. This either wasn’t tested at all, which is alarming, or it was tested and everyone said “yep, this is good!”, which is also alarming, or it was tested and they noted the significant problems but decided to release it anyway and just hoped everyone would be ok with it, which is especially alarming. All scenarios are very bad.
We’ve seen so many similar situations in the past where bad changes are very apparent to players but somehow they still made it through the QA process. There is clearly something fundamentally flawed with how BHVR is evaluating changes and how they are using player feedback in the change process. Unfortunately, I have no confidence this is going to improve anytime soon because the same thing keeps happening over and over again, yet people are not leaving the game.This is probably one of the worst changes ever implemented and yet the game still hit an all time high player count, so I guess that’s all that matters from a business perspective.
I agree completely. I cannot fathom how any dev even looked at this system in it's current state and said "yeah let's put this out in a patch". If it was tested and the testers told them that it was a good system, then they're lying or don't know how to play the game. If it wasn't tested…well, truthfully, I cannot imagine a system this fundamentally broken (that is, as a result, fundamentally breaking other key aspects of the game) was tested at all. Because if it was, anyone with half a braincell would have shut it down immediately.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944955#Comment_3944955
There might be bugs with the AFK crows. Being in a chase should reset AFK points. And getting slugged should reset AFK points, meaning that you should have another 70 seconds of not moving before a crow shows up.
I also wish there were some recorded matches of these issues. I haven’t been able to recreate any issues where the AFK crows were showing up earlier than I would expect them to.
How lucky you must be.
Alas, thus far myself and my group of friends have all had encounters with the crows showing up when they really shouldn't, to the point of actively sabotaging our chances at escaping. So I guess you could say I'm pretty unimpressed with the system so far.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944950#Comment_3944950
When you got AFK crows while running from the killer, did the chase music happen?
Because being in chase is supposed to removes all the crows, so I’m wondering if the people having this issue are running away while they are so far away from the killer, that an actual chase never happens?
Sure did! I was in chase! Music, terror radius, the whole shebang!
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Current list of situations in which myself or my teammates got crows today during less than a dozen matches:
- While running from the killer.
- While running generally
- Moments after getting into a locker, turning what would have been a safe evade of the killer into a death.
- While doing generators
- While looking for totems
- While cleansing totems
- While unhooking fellow survivors
- While healing other survivors
- While opening the exit gate
- While slugged on the ground, attempting to crawl away from the killer in order to use Unbreakable—which is impossible now because of the near instant crows snitching.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943614#Comment_3943614
This is a system we'll be keeping a close eye on over the coming days and weeks. While it can seem intimidating when broken out in bullet points, it's quite forgiving in practice during matches. Specifically, if you're moving around and finding yourself in and out of the Terror Radius, you should have ample time to do things like finding Hex Totems.
Of course, if you encounter specific scenarios in-game where you end up with AFK crows during the course of regular play, please flag them to us so we can keep the team informed!
I mean this as respectfully as possible, but I don't know what game it is you're playing in which this AFK system is "forgiving in practice", but it certainly isn't DBD. It's been one day and either myself or my teammates have gotten crows:
- While running from the killer.
- While running generally
- Moments after getting into a locker, turning what would have been a safe evade of the killer into a death.
- While doing generators
- While looking for totems
- While cleansing totems
- While unhooking fellow survivors
- While healing other survivors
- While opening the exit gate
- While slugged on the ground, attempting to crawl away from the killer in order to use Unbreakable—which is impossible now because of the near instant crows snitching.
Numerous perks will suffer for this. Some will become borderline unusable, some will become so niche in their use they might as well be unusable. It also encourages insta-unhooks (which never benefit the survivors, only ever the killers), makes it borderline impossible to do any kind of safe unhook (because if we wait until the killer is more than a foot away to attempt an unhook, the crows snitch on us). It also basically kills any real attempt at stealth gameplay for survivors, or any kind of long game (as is necessary in things like three gen situations).
So no, I don't find the system to be "forgiving" during matches. I actually find it to be a profound hinderance to normal gameplay, as does everyone else I've spoken to who plays the game. While I understand this was an attempt at preventing AFK players to better gameplay, it is incredibly detrimental to players who are actually actively participating in the game, and quite honestly? I don't think it's something that can be 'tweaked' into working well. The best time to kill switch the new AFK system was about a minute after it was launched, but the second best time is right now.
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The AFK system is out of hand. The fact that I'm getting crows while sprinting across the map to get to door or when trying to stealth to unhook a teammate because I haven't interacted with an object in a few seconds? It's absurd, and truthfully making me not want to play as much.
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As someone who plays both survivor and killer, honestly I don't see the need to force the last survivor to have to stay to watch the Mori? Even if they abandon and the 'player' I Mori at the end is a bot, I still won, I still got the Mori. Forcing a survivor player to stay and watch themselves get Mori'd if they don't want to would just feel like rubbing salt in the wound. It would be like the game teleporting a killer to the exit gate to be forced to watch as the survivors escape.
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@Wolfiestein said:
Blood points are cheap. Ir shards are a little better. Anything less than Auric is not going to get anyone to care.
And no one is being punished, outside those doing something reportable. The goal is to reward fun play, and remove the penalties for the victims. The trashy will not give or get, and will natually drift together. And the fair and fun play will rise together. Killers going for the MECHANICS OF THE GAME, auto receive regardless of survivor salt. Survivors tunneled, camped, or rotting out auto receive. Think of it as an MMR rating that the community has control over. Play toxic, go on a ban frenzy, your number goes down and you play with others like you. Fast fun match, people like, you get fast fun games. I have lost and thumbed up skill.
I did also specify that the counter RESETS. Putting it the week following rank reset means good players get a rank boost and the bad ones don't. After Kudo reset, everyone gets a chance to improve the meta.
The other option is no changes, they continue playing whack-a-mole with the meta and poor sportsmanship, every other match is a slugging ghoul and stun squad swfs, and we go though ANOTHER round of the same complaints and falling player base until a new pay-to-win killer comes out. They have been trying the negatives for how many years? Maybe we see what positive does.
You say that, but people are hustling to get charms, icons and banners during events. It could be as simple as that.
But quite frankly, I think your response underpins the very point of the issue. Kudos are good to foster a positive community, but based on your response, it seems like you've already written off a large portion of the player base as being toxic or unwilling to do something as simple as give a thumbs up to a fellow player after a match. It also comes across like you think all survivor players are 'salty' or petty when killed, and that somehow all killer players are the victims of this, when in my experience, the ratio of 'toxic' players between killers and survivors is pretty even.
Again, I am pro-kudo mechanic having more of a benefit. But it seems like your issues aren't so much with the kudo system as it is with game meta, killer builds and particular survivor play styles, which isn't an issue that's going to magically be addressed by the kudo system. Especially when the MMR is already so complicated that connecting the kudo or reporting system to matchmaking would be a logistical nightmare and likely just lead to long wait times and less matches.