cogsturning
cogsturning
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095515#Comment_4095515
The problem is also that people DC for a million different reasons, any reason you can imagine; I'd wager far more reasons than people will stop playing for. People have always DC'ed and will always DC, and will do so in trends that are predictable even when the reasons aren't good (like pretty much after every killer release or meta shakeup, good or bad).
DCs are just a constant, annoying statistical noise, there's not really ever a reliable signal in it.Hitting them in the player count is what really sends a message, but like we're seeing now with this garbage tier event and the great cake fiasco, there is no meaningful action because people are signing on in record numbers. It's why the ghoul is largely unchanged, and why Nurse is still a thing. DCs don't hurt BHVR so long as you DC and keep playing.
A huge dip in player count after a change is a much more reliable indicator of community wide displeasure because people always DC, people stopping playing en masse is a much less frequent occurrence and easier to directly correlate to.
That's true, but there are trends when you have a million matches worth of data. If Ghoul has drastically more DCs in the first 20s of a match than any other killer that's a concerning trend. You can also compare trends to feedback. The thing is, both are kinda weak on their own. People are complaining about the event and cakes but, as you said, they're still playing. So do they care that much or is whining online just easy? We have endless complaining about the event for killers yet the killer queue remains higher. The message being sent right now appears to be that the majority are satisfied, regardless of outcry. But the player counts also don't tell us everything. How many are new players that will drop off? How many are playing customs with friends and avoiding the suffering of pubs? BHVR has way more data than our crumbs. They just have to combine it all and do something useful with it.
A huge dip in player count after a change is a much more reliable indicator of community wide displeasure because people always DC, people stopping playing en masse is a much less frequent occurrence and easier to directly correlate to.
I think with this game it's kinda hard, with the nature of the roles. Most people seem to play both. Usually there's one I'm happier with at any given time so that's what I play instead of just not playing at all. It's unlikely a change would be big enough and global enough to impact both roles enough to make the whole of the playerbase check out. Cakes are a global problem but they clearly weren't enough to be an issue for BHVR.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095493#Comment_4095493
Yes, this.
There seems to be this notion among some people that because they aren't having as much fun as they would like, they're entitled to express their displeasure by DC'ing. Some of these people also seem to think that this is an effective way of demonstrating/illustrating issues with the game to the devs (spoiler - it isn't). Or that it will stop other players from using the killer or perks they don't like (it won't).The only people getting punished are their teammates. As long as you're logging in, BHVR is getting what they want - engagement with their product.
There is only one way to effectively send a message about the game state, and that is no not log in.
And you say that if people aren't having fun, they shouldn't play; and that's the rational, obvious best course of action. It's what I do when I am really turned off by this game or any game.But I'm increasingly convinced some people would rather be miserable so long as they can make other people miserable as well than to just do something else and actually have fun.
Beyond actual game rules, operating in online game communities entails something of a social contract, though many don't seem to agree, so they just say screw the rest of you, I'm gonna make you sit in my poopy diapers with me.
Some of these people also seem to think that this is an effective way of demonstrating/illustrating issues with the game to the devs (spoiler - it isn't)
It would be pretty stupid for them not to take note of these trends. If something is despised in the game by a large number of people in a trackable way it should be looked at and adjusted to be less detestable.
There is only one way to effectively send a message about the game state, and that is no not log in.
How do they know what to fix if people just stop playing? There are zillion potential issues.
Beyond actual game rules, operating in online game communities entails something of a social contract, though many don't seem to agree, so they just say screw the rest of you, I'm gonna make you sit in my poopy diapers with me.
Thr problem is everyone has a different idea of what's in that contract.
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@Cornil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095449#Comment_4095449
At this point im not sure if mmr even accounts for just wins and escapes anymore, I must've hit some kind of mmr level that you can't derank from because despite dying like 80% of my matches for the past 5 days, its not getting any easier.
Also finding a SWF kinda defeats the point I'm making. I solo-queue, that's what I do. And as an asymmetrical game, if 1 out of 5 players don't want to play, it can ruin the entire match. Even if I find 2 friends to queue with, that 4th random could still disconnect. I'm just proposing that the penalties don't seem to mitigate it meaningfully, at least in my experience. In fact, it just makes me feel obligated to play miserable matches that were basically over 5 to 8 minutes ago even when I've hit the max on bloodpoints or rankup pips I can get from that game. Making so that maybe if 2 out of 5 players leave, that the other 3 can decide to go next. Because you're right that people would leave like dominoes in some matches, but there are a lot more players like you and I that would still at least try with a bot on the team. I don't think the option to abandon once a single player DC's would cause the abandonocalypse, the driving factor of this game right next to fun is bloodpoints, and you get a whole lot less of those if you leave the match too early.
My guess is there's either a base MMR that can't be dropped below or it takes hundreds of matches. I wouldn't expect changes that quickly. There are only four brackets. You likely stay in one for awhile. The amount of MMR you lose also depends on your opponents' MMR.
I'm just proposing that the penalties don't seem to mitigate it meaningfully, at least in my experience.
if that's the case then the penalities don't need to go away, they need to change. But I personally think it's the way the game feels that's the issue.
I believe this game's biggest attitude issue is the lack of killers feeling rewarded for anything but sacrifces. If The Entity wanted blood instead of death and it was gained through unique hooks, I think this game would do a 180 in player sentiment. As it is now, you can have an 8 hook game, but without kills you're rewarded with "the entity hungers", a 0k on your stats, and tbagging at the gates. If killers could still feel accomplished by filling a blood meter or something instead, they wouldn't feel the "need" to tunnel or 4man slug, and then those could also be addressed mechanically too.
but there are a lot more players like you and I that would still at least try with a bot on the team
I disagree with that. I'm one of the very few people who won't even use the abandon feature. Almost everyone else does the moment it pops up. If DCs were as free as abandons I think the game would cease to function.
I think the driving factor for everyone is different. For me, it's unfortunately numbers. For many, it's winning. Fun is pretty abstract and I can't say I have much of it. Maybe in SWF or in customs. That's probably the only fun I have, and it's essentially external to the game itself.
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@Cornil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095410#Comment_4095410
How will it change? I doubt it would for you at all. But for people like me, when my teammates inevitably DC like they do now with the penalties, I’ll also be able to DC freely if I choose to do so. The truth is I don’t think the penalty stops anyone anyway. Most players stay to get their blood points, the cooldown doesn’t stop these kinds of players because they already have p100 and don’t need the BP. They lose nothing other than a little bit of time taking a break before getting back on to do it all again it seems.
Sadly the only way to make sure losses still feel worthwhile is if the game was properly balanced. The current meta is geared around 5 basically uncounterable perks designed for niche uses but survivors can easily force you into those otherwise niche scenarios. It creates a lose-lose situation that’s so far out of your control it removes all sense of responsibility for your loss of the match. Which of course creates frustration. It’s the “losing to perks not players” feeling I’ve heard some content creators express.
Also I do have a casual mindset because I truly don’t care about losing. But my escape rate on survivor has dropped from above 60% to under 25% since the event started, and my kill rate on killer is above average, so if I truly cared about winning and winning alone I’d just play killer. My point though is that even wins can feel frustrating because of the way the current meta plays. I don’t enjoy playing against survivors that give up at 5 gens, but I also don’t enjoy having flashlight saves 18 times at 5 gens just for the survivors to lose the game. If they’re going to win, win normally. Same goes for losing. I don’t go out of my way to tunnel and facecamp but half of my games in this event have been 3 people constantly harassing me so I can’t get a single hook, all just for them to lose the game in the last few minutes because they couldn’t just do the actual objective. Maybe other survivors just like losing, I don’t mind it at all, but when I’m suddenly losing 16 out of every 20 matches on survivor it gets to me a little. Like I don’t even get to play the game most the time, it’s just 2 minutes on hook, at max 3 minutes in “chase,” maybe about a minute healing or doing gens, and that’s it. Half my match almost is just dying on hook or the ground and the other half waiting to be tunneled out when the killer inevitably finds chasing a new survivor to not be a winning strategy.
I feel forced to bring decisive strike but I rarely get good use out of it, I’ll always get double-tapped anyway because I don’t have teammates that coordinate around it. But when I play killer I’m basically forced to slug or tunnel, or else I’ll eat every DS and DH on all four survivors just to get 4 hooks before the gates are opened. Kicking gens and playing a normal macro game feels like a distant memory now, playing killer now just feels like a never ending chase, which tires me out, regardless if I win or lose.
So you end up with a situation where basically every match is all 5 players DCing. One does it, then they all go like dominoes after that. There would be no game.
"Properly balanced" is, like "casual", this very vague idea that everyone views differently. What does it look like? You have killers with drastically different kits on maps with drastically different structures, plus RNG, and then a simplistic MMR system that's hard to improve because what do you accurately factor besides kills and escapes? You also have different playstyles and perk synergies and anti-synergies. I feel like losing to perks is too simple. You're losing (or winning) to luck, randomness, and opponenet choices. Soloq is always random because of teammates. There's no fixing that. If Blight wants to tunnel the weak link at 5gens it's gg. Both sides have quick slants in one direction that have so much momentum they can be impossible to stop. That's beyond just balancing. That's the entire game.
I feel forced to bring decisive strike but I rarely get good use out of it, I’ll always get double-tapped anyway because I don’t have teammates that coordinate around it.
Try something else? People never seem happy with these obligatory perks. I chew right through this DS as killer and hardly ever get tunneled anymore running other stuff (until Jason anyway). Also, maybe find a SWF if you want that sort of coordination and team play.
The one thing I will say is I feel like I almost always go agaiant people better than me in both roles. But i imagine that is because I also maintain above goal numbers. I think the way you feel is the price you pay for those stats.
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I don't think their should be DC penalities but I also basically never DC. I can count on my fingers how many times I've DCed. But what you say here
How is it fair that people who abide by the penalties have to suffer because the penalties do nothing to discourage the toxic players these changes were intended for?
How would free DCs change this? People like me, who simply don't believe in DCing as a personal stance, will still be stuck with bots. Probably even more than now. There are already enough free outs with the abandon option. What the game needs is a way for sure loses to still feel worthwhile.
Content creators aren't a good example of anything in this game. They do it for a living and they invest too much into it. Most people get stressed at work.
What is casual though? If you truly have a casual mindset, you shouldn't be nearly so stressed if you lose, nor should you be inclined to sweat for wins. More and more, I feel like "casual" means still wanting to win but with less effort. Sometimes I "casually" 4k at 5 gens. Didn't feel causal for my opponents though, I bet. So what does casual look like for each role when neither wants to sign up to lose?
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I doubt we'll see changes to the event. That's not an overnight kinda thing. Survivors will likely see heavy nerfs next year tho, or killers will get more. It's also not as though anyone is forced to play it.
The cakes they could maybe do something about, but I'm not holding my breath. They're likey trying to set a new precedent for how it will be going forward, so by the time next year comes around we'll already be used to it.
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I get messages on PS but they can only be so nasty. There are too many rules on console and bans aren't hard to land. I personally enjoy the PG trash talk but it's pretty easy to set your messages to private.
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@Lethal_premium said:
Kill rates don't matter that much to me when survivors DC at my terror radius, and are more causal from my experience. Also the free hit, gives a long time to run away to a loop, and what about legion, plague, and nurse?
These are some weird comparsions. Plague has to set up her infection or hit you with a ranged attack in chase, and the injury isn't instant. Even just walking keeps it from progressing. Survivors also have the option to cleanse. There's a whole lot more to Plague than "I saw you from across the map and now I'm on top of you AND you're injured."
Nurse doesn't get free hits and does take skill to learn, at least. But she's also overdue for changes. Ghoul got his needed changes. But if you think these two are comparable, trying maining Nurse.
Krasue is still strong. Shes just not busted and unstoppable.
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You're playing one of the strongest killers in the game and you want them to have more? At what point are people satisfied? When every killer has 10 abilities and their all basically the same as each other?
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Endurance doesn't activate if the survivor is within 3m of another survivor and more than 12m away from the hook
Endurance is for the unhooked survivor. How is an unhooked survivor—who was unhooked by another survivor—supposed to stay 3m away from their unhooker?
The slugging strategy typically used in these situations was nerfed for being "too toxic," but is this kind of survivor behavior fair?
What basekit buffs did survivors get that help with slugging?
If I, as a killer, decided to use an external tool to make things easier, I’d be considered a cheater; yet when a survivor does it (using Discord), everyone turns a blind eye.
Killers do use permissible external elements for advantages. Reshade, high end headphones, aiming sights, etc. The difference is that everyone has access to Discord, which dbd has an official server for where they have voice channels for people to use.
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@Yamalive said:
So you never had the thought that cake rates in previous years were just absurdly high? You think its fine to still carry many of them after a year? Its funny how people just accept being oversaturated with something as normal.
How does having a lot of cakes just sitting in your inventory hurt the game?
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095053#Comment_4095053
Yeah, if they stand by this, it might be the most obstinate and out of touch thing they've done yet, and that's saying a lot
I mean in a vacuum it's not all that consequential, but it really speaks to how tuned in they are (or aren't) to the community and what motivates players to play long termI think they know exactly what they're doing. They are tuned in. They know this is a playerbase that whines and cries and moans while simultaneously punching in their credit card numbers. The two things they need are profit and engagement and they're getting lots of both right now. There's zero reason to act. I expect will have some final act of empty pandering like that 5mil, but I'd be shocked if anything significant was done. There's simply no reason to, unless things take a sharper downturn.
The problem is, as you said, the long term. How many of these new and returning players are going to stay? And how embittered will everyone else be when the dust settles?
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@Jay_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095068#Comment_4095068
The reason they don't want to give as many cakes is because they want players to slow down with progression. I personally don't see the big thrill in progression and i play because i like the game its self. I think players need to assess why they play this game. If they play to get p100 and thats it then why not play something other than DBD that has rewarding progression. If you don't play for prestige then you don't need cakes.
All this cake issue is doing is drawing attention away from other parts of the game that needs addressing and instead focusing on something that in the grand scheme of the game is insignifficant.But why slow down progression when it's a thing people enjoy doing and that, as you said, has no real rewarding effect on anything? Even if you have 50 p100s what does it hurt if you get #51?
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@bm33 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095024#Comment_4095024
While that screenshot is a year old it actually highlights that players complained so much last year about the lack of cakes a year ago that BHVR responded. BHVR was completely aware of how important being able to load up on the cake offering was for players. BHVR had a year to take that feedback to make this year better, instead this year is worse for cakes. It makes no sense to not take the easy win in player morale of making the cakes easily accessible like they were in years past.
I'd imagine they weighed the feedback against playing habits and found that it effected nothing. Nor is it doing so this year, considering the player count. The winter event rewards were also worse last time. But people still played. So this trend will likely continue because there's no reason to incentivize an already active playerbase.
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@Balrog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095044#Comment_4095044
The feedback loop! Sorry for just calling it the "process" and not being more specific.
But to what end? What's the feedback needed for? Is it a surprise to BHVR that people are mad the cake acquiring is at an all time low for the 10th anniversary, of all times? Feedback loops have "action" as one of their elements. Is anything going to be done?
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Because the complaints are empty. You'll see the same people moan about how strong survivor is over and over, then they post their stats that are way over the 60% goal. I can only assume they do it because they think if they complain enough as a mass they'll get even more and—when CCs are on board—it tends to work.
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My theory is that the Blood Moon community quest sky rocketing to max really fast (which gave crazy BP) is the reason for all these crappy rewards. Whatever analytic they use to measure how much BP is acceptable to give out to keep the grind balance in check must have went over, so they nerfed cakes and rewards for the anniversary.
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I agree that a certain satisfaction of acquisition was taken away with the loss of the cakes. It's always a nice little feeling to click on a special item in the bloodweb. This level of stingyness during a much-hyped 10 year anniversary makes it even more gloomy. I have multiple p100s and I usually play enough that, if I focus on one character, it's not hard for me to get another, but the cakes were kinda the last straw for me when there are already so many things I'm unhappy with about this game right now.
The good news is I'm finally playing other games.
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I wish people would boycott it, then maybe the queues would clear up. At least the event one was instant for a couple days but now it's multiple minutes for killer. For all this supposed discontent, people sure are clogging up the killer queue, and playing against endless tunneling Jasons doesn't appeal to me either. Add the lack of cakes to incentivize dealing with all of these things and I'm on my longest break from this game in years.
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The player count is too high for them to act. If you want this to change then stop playing. I usually play everyday but between how much I hate playing against Jason, how long the killer queue times have been if I don't want to play against Jason, and how goofy the whole anniversary has been I'm just gonna play the games I got from the Steam summer sale. I logged into dbd today, saw even the event has multi-minute waits for killer and just logged right off. There's just zero incentive to play right now.
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I don't really care about the cakes much but I'm unsure why people would defend BHVR. It costs them nothing to keep cake rarity as common and it's a clear effort to increase the grind for BP. I could see them doing this next year but being this stingy on the 10 year anniversary is just gross. Between this, playing against endless Jasons, killer queue times, and the anniversary event, this has been an exceptionally miserable anniversary.
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Yeah it's been happening in my killer matches a lot. For the last few matches in my last session I switched to Plague because I was tired of it. The puking also kinda negates the invisibility.
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@Rogue11 said:
I'm not having fun on either side. Survivor = Jason every match because he bypasses most of the food buffs and adding giga hinder on top of his kit just no.
Then I try to play Henry and start chase → instant invisible → instant teleport across the map. Like OK?? What am I supposed to be doing here?
I tried with Henry as well and it was horrible. They'd just pop into a portal or zoom away the second they saw me. Then i switched to Clown and won or tied most of my matches. It really depends on the killer, especially as you start to get the hang of waiting out the endurance and invisibility. The portals are the biggest issue I'm having.
And yeah, every survivor match was Jason and they were all losses. The mode isn't really busted for survivor if 95% of the matches are against an even more busted killer.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093463#Comment_4093463
I spent 4 million bp then stopped just in case they take pity on us in the coming days
I spent my whole 15 million I had accumulated. Guess I'll just grind for more if it improves.
Crazy thing is, matches last year everyone brought cake. This year, it's like two people per match. They're so scarce no one even wants to use them.
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This is how the event has gone for me so far:
As killer I sweat for my life for mostly ties. People already knew exactly how everything worked and how to maximize it to heal people mid chase or when downed, or to turn invisible around a corner and body block with budget DH.
As survivor, it's basically all Jason and we lost every single match because he's the current free win button.
So I went back to 1v4. I'd rather wait in the 6 minute killer queue, and there have also been way less Jasons over there on the survivor end.
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I waited to get the 10mil BP and spent it all on one killer—and got 100 cakes. Why did I bother waiting?
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092635#Comment_4092635
Still I would imagine most people will buy them with money because they want to support the game. Later people might unlock them with shards but in the end I would imagine the sales are what makes them more money as license will always cut profit because of their cut.
I have never once bought anything wirh money that could be obtained through shards.
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I would have committed to one, probably the one I could have zoned the easiest, and went for rhe 3k.
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Unfortunately the stat page ruined my mindset and numbers dictate how I feel. Would love to have a winrate in there so I feel less bad about dying on 3 outs.
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I'd like more noteworthy horror. Candyman, The Thing, Phantasm.
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Only if they were 100% verified to be legitimate. Otherwise people will just report everyone. We already have people that confuse perks for cheating.
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092725#Comment_4092725
i have Henry, sucked at him refused to play him until i saw Knightlight slaughter team Blizzard with him, now i have the motivation
No idea what those words mean but I hope you give him a go. Successful trajectory prediction shots through walls are a great feeling.
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Wesker was my main until recently. I only even bothered trying this game because of his inclusion and my first 6 months were just playing Wesker. Eventually I tried Plague because I thought she was funny, then branched out from there.
Currently my main is Henry. I wasn't even planning on getting him because I'm on console and he's ranged, but after playing a few matches against him I loved the audio cues and the Henry Creel skin's voicelines. At first I just had a ton of fun landing shots even though I was doing bad stats-wise. 140 gameplay hours later and the numbers have much improved, but he's simultaneously the most satisfying and most frustrating killer I've played. SB/Vigil prerunners holding W at the first hint of my approach have never been so infuriating.
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@I_CAME said:
I don't normally agree with content creators but I fully agree with Hens saying that full hex builds need to be nerfed. The argument being that Jason is not the real problem. He's just exposing an already existing issue with the game. I think hexes getting nerfed is the most likely outcome when you have a prolific player who is known to be in the content creator program openly saying this. Jason might get a slight nerf but I wouldn't expect much.
The problem is Thrill. It makes cleansing a full hex biild against certain killers close to impossible, and by the time you manage it you've thrown the match for totems.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092597#Comment_4092597
Give dredge vents next to gens atp or force locker spawns next to them.
Easy to say but will it be done? It's been years. Old killers that aren't making money aren't a priority. I cooled on playing Dredge because some maps had gens that had no tp locations nearby. One of my last attempts to play I spawned into Badham and just DCed, and I can count my DCs on my fingers.
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I found this pretty gross when I realized it. Gross, but not surprising. God forbid he doesn't have a teleport spawn every 2 meters. Compare it to Dredge who's just out of luck if there's no lockers, or Springtrap's static locations, or Unknown's limited and dispellable dupes. But this one killer gets the world.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092552#Comment_4092552
as a console player i feel pretty called out haha but those are my friend groups (I play solo q survivor to hope for better teams)
I'm also a console player and those were also my friend groups until I met people outside of in-game friend requests.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092237#Comment_4092237
Eh, while its true you leave with a higher ER when solo, I'd argue the average ER per match is lower while playing solo. Because you're more likely to be willing to sacrifice yourself for 3 of your friends, but not for 3 strangers.
As for unpredictability, that is what IMO makes soloq overall more fun. I have the most fun with SWF if we dont tell each other our (full) loadouts. Sometimes I do still say I bring X because if I dont they will unknowingly sandbag me (like if I bring Deliverance, I HAVE to say it, otherwise my friend will race me for any unhook).Yes, I'm more likely to die for friends. I'm also often screwing up becuase I'm laughing or talking. Soloq is all business. I don't know about the average though. As far as I know, the killer is determined by the person with the highest MMR. So if three people are low and one is high those three players will be in over their heads. SWF probably makes for some very wonky matchmaking.
I'm not saying unpredictability is good or bad. It's just a thing.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090959#Comment_4090959
you'd be surprised; plenty of people hit the "average mmr" level of 3,000 hours and become exhibit A of Dunning-Krueger syndrome. They hit a certain skill level and choose to stay there.
Yeah true. I know multiple peope with 3k-5k hours who not only can't identify killer perks, but don't even know the names of the killers ("it's the robot guy"). One didn't know what a hatch offering did either, or why I was 4%ing with 4 gens up and only us two left.
I guess I just stopped playing with people like that and forgot they existed. They sure aren't beating the console player reputation.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092340#Comment_4092340
I mean perks and killers have always had different balance cycles unless it was genuinely insane. Krasue on release was literally better than Blight and almost if not stronger than Nurse. The anti-tunnel and anti-slug PTB were so abusable that people weren't even paying attention to Krasue which is why she wasn't nerfed immediately. Either way killers on PTB play significantly different than in games, sometimes a killer in the PTB is insane then it sucks in actual gameplay. (The Harmless) Same goes for perks, essentially what I am meaning is that most of the time changes aren't immediately needed unless it is genuinely broken.
I have been playing loads of survivor over the past few months and I physically cannot comprehend why people are complaining. Like my only complaint about Jason is that OE counterplay is a bit boring when spammed with hexes, aside from that he feels really fun to play against.
It's not the trend I've seen. Sales seem pretty relevant. Krasue had the bad luck of also being designed alongside anti-tunnel but she was never really popular. Even on day one I only saw a few. And she was obtainable through shards. So they nerfed her. Henry hasn't been super popular either so he took his nerfs pretty quietly.
Jason is in the unique position of being long sought after, possibly being the biggest money maker they've ever had, and having a tremendously obnoxious fanboy collective that will definitely be loud. Much like Ghoul, this rep he's gaining for easy and cheesy wins will keep the money flowing, and I doubt any meaningful nerfs will happen for some time. Probably just some small adjustments. This game was a passion project once but those days are over. Companies chase money. That's just reality. The thing they have to weigh is how many people they can afford to lose in soloq.
I've played at least 50 matches agaiant this killer. Maybe you're going against different sorts of Jasons then me but mine have all known how to maximize his overstuffed kit and 9/10 have been using that kit to easily hard tunnel. I have never seen so much tunneling at 5 gens back to back to back to back. I can't say I find it fun to be hit with a spear through endurance and then rundown by haste so I'm dead 10s after an unhook. Or to be speared so I bounce off a nearby object and have zero opportunity to make distance.
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@MoZo said:
it’s honestly just unfair. the perk hasn’t even made it to live before already having a scheduled nerf. i hate to bring in the us vs. them but this is seriously a case of that. Jason just came out, parts of his kit are clearly overtuned but instead of the devs doing any changes, they tell us they won’t be doing any kneejerk reaction nerfs to him but the moment a couple killer main CC’s and their echo chamber audience start complaining about a new survivor perk, the devs immediately get to kneejerk nerfing it.
why couldn’t cross-examination have the same balance cycle that jason is going through? what if in between bugfix 1 and bugfix 3 the perk isn’t as much as a problem as people made it out to be but it gets nerfed into the ground anyways?
why couldn’t cross-examination have the same balance cycle that jason is going through?
Because Jason is making them a ton of money. This perk won't. Neither would the changes from the nuked anti-tunnel ptb. Neither did Krasue. Neither did fog vials. Profit is the main motivator. Survivors can suffer for the meantime because BHVR knows only so many will permanently quit.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092190#Comment_4092190
It quite literally is a solo q issue. How do you expect people to play accordingly without proper communication? Please tell me how the biggest problem here isn't the lack of communication. Also, it was Otz that said that quote and he was referring broadly iirc showing examples of survivor who didn't even understand what certain perks did. Either way the "should not be balanced around ignorance" is a very broad statement that applies quite frankly to everything.
There are no comms in this game. That's its base state. So if soloq is unwinnable in certain situations that only SWF can combat, then that aspect of the game is broken and soloqers are fodder for kill rates and egos.
I really don't care which parasocial deity spoke the holy words. Average killers aren't anymore knowledgeable as a whole than survivors. Most people don't treat the game like a job and acquire an encyclopedic knowledge of all its aspects. Expecting casual players on either side to do that is just foolish.
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I don't find SWF easier per se, I actually end up with a higher ER in solo. What solo is that SWF isn't is unpredictable. You get to know how people play and what sort of perks they'll bring. Instead of four wild cards you only have one in the killer.
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092192#Comment_4092192
the hell is happening in Australia that they got 12 minute killer queues
Is was 20 minutes on Jason day 1.
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@DemonicDemons said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092192#Comment_4092192
Congrats, how many times have you queued with a killer bot? I was running into them frequently before I quit and I assume it's actually bhvr implementing them because they don't seem to get banned, killers have given up playing the roll myself included, how else do you fill the void so queue times aren't 30 minutes? You can only write off player experiences for so long before you have to face the facts.
Your conspiracy theory is that all these Jasons clogging up the queues for their instawins are BHVR bots boosting queue times to such an extreme degree that real people won't even want to wait to play killer, while survivors also lose most of their matches? Logical business move.
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Naw we have enough over-complicated kits right now. Wraith is a great simple killer with solid add-ons. He's perfectly fine.
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@DemonicDemons said:
This mentality is the reason why I quit the game, nerf every killer that gives you a challenge but buff survivors to no end so that swfs can abuse you repeatedly, it's people like you who make the game unfun and the game is going in a horrible direction, every single killer feels it, have fun when there are no killers left and you have no game to play I guess.
Do they feel it though?
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092149#Comment_4092149
So the issue is solo q players not having enough communication. Sounds like a SOLO Q ISSUE and not Jason issue. Maybe once they get the tools THEN we can touch up on Jason. As much as I hate quoting content creators… We should not balance around ignorance.
No, it's isn't a soloq issue. Soloq is a big part of the game. If something is uncounterable in solo on one killer it shouldn't exist. I normally play all three aspects of this game but I currently won't touch soloq, and I'm sure I'm not alone. That's not healthy for the game's queue times or its outloook.
We should not balance around ignorance.
I'm assuming which ever CC that said this meant the ignorance of a player in regards to how things work, not the inability to even share or have information. Information that is imossible to obtain is not the same as ignorance.
Hilarious thing to say though, when talking about a no-thoughts killer who can turn invisible and zoom around the map while regressing gens with an add-on and getting free info on everybody. You can be macro-ignorant as all hell but still win.
@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092154#Comment_4092154
I agree.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091858#Comment_4091858
unless you're a teenager with no job, its shouldnt be that hard to buy auric cells or use Iri shards if ya got'em.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092149#Comment_4092149
and how often do soloqer face a "Hex-Jason"? Just deal with it the best you can or start running anti-hex builds and hope you face a Hex-build. No one wants busted killers that give easy wins; you just call him that cause you want easy escapes or just dont want to learn and adapt. Do you really want another "Slaughtering Strike Myers"? Cause thats eventually what you're going to get if you keep pushing these nerfs onto him.
Telling people they should have to spend money to even have a chance to win the game is just gross.
I don't need or want easy escapes. My 30-day is always well above 40% and has been for some time (and still is). Nor would I ever want any killer I play to be this easy to win with. I'd be livid if my killers got buffed to this degree. Some of us do want to earn things. Strange, but true.
Cause thats eventually what you're going to get if you keep pushing these nerfs onto him.
Nobody is asking for a rework, nor did anyone ask for that one.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091858#Comment_4091858
If the totem build is really THAT oppressive on Jason then at that point it might just be a skill issue on the survivors part. Don't know how to put it any other way.
How would you like soloqers to cleanse Thrill totems with zero coordination against a killer that gets constant info while also being fast and invisible? Wanting busted killers and easy wins is the skill issue.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
My guess was they were wanting to bring the feel closer to Texas Chainsaw's original film with the brighter look, which is fun, but it'd be nice if maybe different map variants had the different times of day to really set them apart maybe.
This is what I like about current Coldwind, that it's basically a budget TCM setting. I'd be happy with variants but I still like the sunny version.