cogsturning
cogsturning
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084897#Comment_4084897
I never said drastically, but it does reduce average chasetime. Since gens and genregression are currently mainly being defended due to chases taking too long, then it logically concludes that reducing average chasetime should affect genregression.
Like, we've seen this in the cooldown buff 3 years ago, killers gained a flat 10% basekit reduction to all chase related cooldowns. Hits, misses, vaults, breaks(including gens). Gen regression in general got nerfed in the same year because they got too effective. And that 10% was a minor change in numbers. If nerfing SB and Lithe pulls the average chasetime down by 10%, that for example would go from 40 seconds to 36 seconds, which is not a huge difference, but on the long run, having gen regression the same would mean survivors are in chases more often, which increases the effect of genregression perks significantly.
If a match takes 10 minutes on average, that means by the time your 5th chase ended, on average, you will arrive to a gen in progress 20 seconds earlier. Meaning if they are at 70+ seconds progress at the time, they would have been able to finish the gen before the nerf on average. Meaning average game durations will end up being longer because gens end up unfinished for longer.
If keep slowdown the same, the impact will snowball hard.I think this simplifies the game too much. It's like your approaching it as though all killers bring slowdown and all survivors extend chase with exhaustion. I run stealth perks which often makes my chases end very fast. This is hard to quantify in chase times because the killer's time is still being wasted while they look for me, it's just not a visible metric like chase time. There's more than one way to play. The majority of people I play with don't use Exhaustion, and there's no way to know how much it's truly extending chases because it's not that simple.
I think many Exhaustion enjoyers also fail to recognize when those perks are bad for their team as a whole. If I'm killer and I'm approaching someone and they're slow-walking away, waiting to use their SB, I'm going to turn around and ignore them until two people are dead and I've got time to deal with that. Taking a target off your back puts it more squarely on others. Lithe has issues too. If I know someone is trying to get in position to Lithe, I'll often cut off the vault, or if I'm a ranged killer, predict the trajectory and down them. Sometimes efforts to extend chases actually just end them, one way or another.
I'm certainly not defending slowdown though. If I had it my way, I'd delete the top Exhaustion and slowdown perks from the game. I don't like either meta.
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I played a few matches against him and so far I loathe him. I don't know how anyone who isn't a masochist can find this fun. I have as much fun playing against Twins. His kit is outrageously overstuffed, his blood warden, gen regress, and anti-exhaustion add-ons are basically perks, Omni recharges way too fast, the haste and Killer Instinct are overkill, he's a zoning nightmare, and if he spikes you and you bounce off of something nearby his recovery is so fast you're just screwed. There's no way to really counter him slugging for the 4k. You can't crouch for 4 minutes because you'll get crows, but if you do literally anything else he'll find you in Omni.
Glad I'm already gold grade for survivor for the season cause I don't think I'll be playing the role much until this cools.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089370#Comment_4089370
Literally his argument in a nutshell.
Comparing Dramaturgy to Sprint Burst and Lithe is insane.
One where you can only get when healed while the others don't have as much conditions, but implying all three are similar.
OP please bring up Overcome.
I don't think they should all be nerfed eqaully. Dramaturgy is what SB should be. SB is the problem child.
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Ditch the add-ons; nerf the perks.
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The side you dislike the most.
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Honestly that bug was the perfect rework for that goofy, embarrassing perk. L bugfix.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089231#Comment_4089231
i would say because the default power balance in a 1v4 should lean to the 1v4.
so on any kind of 1v1 on similar experience levels there should be a default slant towards the killer performing better.
killer powers can require different playstyl;es.
survivors play the same ways regardless of the killer other than perhaps adapting to your power.
you definitely dont need to learn as much with a new killer other than the power sicne survivors are still going to run the same perks, run the same loops and run the same plays.
But if survivors do more or less the same things against all killers, shouldn't learning how to utilize the new killer's kit be the more challenging aspect? Like when Henry first came out, I struggled. I stuck with him because I thought he was fun and now I do okay. To me, that's the way it ought to be. It isn't though.
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I'm waiting for cakes before I redeem.
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@SLENDER4DBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089177#Comment_4089177
He's a racist. He keeps saying that the new survivor is "forced diversity" and Eric Pope responded with "if you have an account that's like "<character>fordbd" and all you do is make hate you're not doing any favors for the license" so he's basically throwing Slender's chances out the ######### window
Forced diversity? Weird opinon in a game that's already pretty diverse.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
It’s the same predictable response that we’ve gotten with every recently-released killer. Lots of people complaining that he’s too strong because it’s only been 24 hours and they haven’t fully mastered counterplay yet. So, also predictably, he’ll get nerfed hard and never seen again like Krasue and Henry.
Karaue wasn't even popular on day one, and everyone who wanted to play her just wanted cheese wins. Henry also didn't have much time in the sun, and his subsequent nerfs were barely noticeable.
But the "learn counterplay" argument doesn't make full sense. Why are people instantly good with a killer they don't know either yet survivors are expected to just lose against them cause the killer is new? Why is it fine and normal that it takes no learning time on the killer side to win all your matches?
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@Slurp_Ramen said:
he said he regularly donates money anyway.
And as I said the money will be donated no manner how many wins they get before failing. And they can keep retrying until they hit 10 wins.
4 wins, $400, 6 wins $600 etc etc.
I don’t see the problem here at all, charity gets money and weak killers maybe get looked at, it’s a win win.Yeah, and CC gets attention. The devs have data on killers. As much as this community likes to think so, they don't have more information than the people who make the game. This is a spectacle and nothing more.
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Sure but that doesn't get them their precious views and desperately desired attention. Like, do nice stuff without anyone looking at you? Who does that?
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@CorgiSploots said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089086#Comment_4089086
Saw is the only IP I think can have a chance, it has infinite amount of devices at it's disposal so there's endless amount of puzzles to be had thus whatever killers they have will not be held to some gimmick. Hunt has the issue of very immature devs who ragged on one of their biggest streamers and lost steam since
I guess the problem is that if it's one solitary IP and that one isn't appealing to you, you're out. At least with original ideas there isn't any baggage.
Ah, that's unfortunate. I haven't being following the progress.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088753#Comment_4088753
as long as that playtime isn’t dictated by platform and is by actual account stats. Since you know playstation could say you have 7k hours but on steam you’re that 100 hour player. Playing with a console to pc friend has taught me not to judge profile playtime.
I'm saying this assuming the numbers are the true ones. I'm also cross progression and know is not always their only account. You can kinda tell sometimes though. Many people I look at will have 200 hours but they have low hours in only a few other games. Then I assume is cross progression. Some people state that they're cross progression on their Steam accounts too, like me.
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@CorgiSploots said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089053#Comment_4089053
I agree, like I said short of killers stuck in stealth era. Like plague has to on some level because her mechanic is so baked into a hide don't let her catch you sick bygone era. I honestly won't even support BHVR beyond Konami because that's how the company judges how much love a property gets. And Scooby when it drops because I'm hoping for a proper Scooby game not run of the mill slop. I agree I think the devs enjoy the us vs them because why not? We have no competition there's no reason to correct course. I'm really hopeful? The saw game will be a decent contender to force them to address issues. Outlast Trials is picking up speed too, and it's just so lore based which I know dbd community has been craving.
I rarely spend money on the game. Henry was the first killer I've bought in a long time, and I recycle my cells to buy the Rift. I won't buy individual skins either. This company gets my time, it's not getting my money too.
I'd really like to see something original pick up steam. Like Outlast Trails, yeah, which I haven't gotten but have been meaning to. Carnival Hunt looks pretty cool too. The Saw game doesn't interest me. I just don't get the obsession with IPs. My favorite aspects of dbd are it's original ones, and these limited IP games keep proving they don't have enough to keep people interested. Dbd is so big and overstuffed with years worth of maps and characters I just don't know how anyone can catch up.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089006#Comment_4089006
It can help if it agitates the killer to focus on a single survivor who's a good looper. Ergo: it's a strategy.
Works on baby killers, I guess. Can't remember the last time I fell for that.
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@CorgiSploots said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089013#Comment_4089013
This exactly, it's why I avoid it on killer because there's nothing in survivors that make it where I can't play. The only thing that remotely came close was Made for This and that only effected slower killers anyone with speed was fine. I'm honestly tired of the 'strat' argument and that devs said yadda yadda. They said a thing back in 2018 before they realized how utterly depraved a good portion of the killer base will be. And now are realizing why games like LoL etc have player safeguards to prevent someone being unable to play/team destroyed. Does it always work? No of course not but is far better then pretending all is well we're just one big happy family please ignore the hard tunneling of certain players because checks notes they might be playing a trans woman/dare to like Sable among other things.
Slugging is intended in certain situations. I've done it against sabo teams plenty, and I've taken full team downs when they're easily handed to me. But I've never gone into a match intending to never hook anyone. I don't think that part was ever intended to the extent of what were seeing now, which is the reason so many people succeed with it. They're exploiting a system they know is hard to fix, with a tactic that's neatly impossible to counter.
As for depravity, If I'm being honest I think they like there to be toxicity and division and downright hatred in this community. That sort of conflict fuels engagement. It's much like political rivalry. The "tunnel Sables day" thing really spotlighted how gross this community is. A lot of people who play killer are obsessed with winning. You can't really be that way on survivor, since your designed to lose more than you win. But killer can attract a very different sort that, if they try enough, can win basically every match. Even very average killers can win more than they lose. Not so much for survivors. You pretty much have to be comp level for that.
I actually hope this problem keeps up so people keep complaining. It's nice to finally see the chorus rising, and complaints are all that gets anything done in this community.
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@cammoking123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088999#Comment_4088999
The hud doesn't tell you when you're close to a three gen. Being three gen'd is something that happens in solo q all the time. You also won't be able to maximize your efficeny when it comes to getting rescues. For some reason BHVR decided Kindred should only work for the person running it. There are just lots of little things that swfs can communicate while solo q struggles.
Mini Kindred should be basekit or the perk should be buffed but this is also gamesense. If one person is in chase and two are on gens but one's almost done, that one goes for hook when their gen is done. If two people are on low progress gens, one needs to go. Again, the HUD gives info.
I run Deja Vu default, SWF or not. You can also just keep track of who's doing what by moving around the map, or noting which gens have been done. There is a visual for that.
Comms shouldn't be replacing gamesense and awareness.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088999#Comment_4088999
"people would elect themselves leader"
Everyone has had those folks in solo queue who point and try directing everyone lol imagine how much more unbearable they would be with VC. It's like nah mate, this is solo queue. It's the wild west out here. You want to be a leader, go make a swf lol
I can't even imagine how bad it would be.
I'd permamute on day one. I did my time being called slurs on other games. Never again. And you know people will lash out against the non-talkers. At least now, when I play killer, I can kinda read the internal conflicts with survivors and react accordingly. With VC I wouldn't have any idea why people are acting out. The last thing this game needs is additional layers of toxicity.
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@pidgeon said:
Gen rushing / protection hits would be a better comparison
There is no comparsion to slugging. Survivors can't incapacitate a killer.
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These are totally different. Tbagging is goofy but doesn't stop the killer from playing or help the survivor win. If anything, it sometimes gets survivors killed.
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The HUD gives you info. So do perks. Open VC won't help any more. It would be nothing but yelling, blaming, and insults. Bad players will still be bad, and people would elect themselves leader. No amount of talking will make randoms care about one another either. It's not hard to find people to play with and use Discord, and that way you get to choose who you want to interact with. I also prefer having two different experiences available. I can play with friends or have a more mysterious, quieter solo match. I wouldn't want that to go away.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088712#Comment_4088712
I worry doing it that way will just lead too continuing of dodging but now people who dont dodge will be forced to wait longer in lobbies as it backfills for the correct bracket (and if its same dude we gotta wait longer as person dodging can freely shop for lobby)
I think the only way to fairly make the issue stop is to lock people into the lobbies, or penalities for agreesive dodging (repeatedly doing it over and over) so people still have a freebe for genuine reasons but cant abuse it without penalty. OR remove killer info from lobby so they cant see oppenents but i know thats unpolular take.
I dont think its the main reason but think its a pretty major reason that is offten overlooked. i dont think it even gets the chance to work correctly in alot of matches due to dodging and if it goes unchanged when MMR rework happens thoes matches will continue to have issues and people will still complain about the MMR
OR remove killer info from lobby so they cant see oppenents but i know thats unpolular take.
I want this too but not just killers lobby shopping, but other survivors too. The system needs to be good though. There should be a near zero chance of matching a 5k hour with a 100 hour.
They could go with some sort of visible rank, like the old rank system, or like how prestige was once visible (but, like, something that means something instead) so you can at least see what you're in for, but without browsing Steam profiles.
I believe they could backfill properly though. There's always a lot of people on and only so many brackets. I recently got matched to someone with less than 50 hours. I was shocked and even messaged him to be sure it was accurate. Every once in awhile I get people who should be below the soft cap. No functional system should allow that.
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@random1543 said:
matchmaking and MMR rework needs to come with anti lobby dodging or it just wont work.
They have said in the past the killers leaving the lobby causes the matchmaking to prioritize filling the spot, why I suspect a lot of people have inconsistent matches or are in lobbies that they should not be in.They could just make it so it backfills from the correct bracket. I'm sure that very possible.
But I'm pretty sure the inconsistency has to do with more than that, when there's a system revolving solely around escapes and kills.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088639#Comment_4088639
I don't want to kill the strategy though, even though admittedly - I don't like it.
I just think bleedouts should be removed IF this is going to be considered a valid win condition. I don't agree that bleeding survivors out is the win condition. That's just my perspective on it
Bleedouts technically don't count as kills on the stat page so I'd assume that's true for the games inrernals as well, which makes sense, since the loading screen says "hooking a survivor is the killer's primary objective". I've sure never done it so i can't be sure, but if 4 survivors bleedout it should register as a 0k in stats. I doubt the people who do that care but that is the case.
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Has anybody tested to see if anything's been resolved? Because I thought they would be with this update but none of these are the issues that were the most concerning.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088501#Comment_4088501
The survivors are high MMR, that doesn't mean every killer they go against is as well. It's also specifically 4mans. Matchmaking isn't even, and good payers should preform better than average ones. Hell, my 30-day ER is almost always above that 48%, even playing solo in who knows what bracket, but my KR is also above the target 60%, and I'm very average at both roles. I don’t know too many people with numbers below the targets unless they meme around or let people go.
A 4man SWF. The stat being referenced is that high MMR 4man SWFs have a 48% average ER.
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@HexSlugged said:
a 50% kill rate would mean that on average 2 people escape per match. you obviosuly can swing up or down per match. but if in a MMR bracket whether high or low if 4 man escapes are happening 48% of the time (essentially 50%) then survivors are outperforming killer in that bracket and killer is underperforming as the target kill rate should be around 60 so only 4 out of 10 survivors on average should be escaping.
The survivors are high MMR, that doesn't mean every killer they go against is as well. It's also specifically 4mans. Matchmaking isn't even, and good payers should preform better than average ones. Hell, my 30-day ER is almost always above that 48%, even playing solo in who knows what bracket, but my KR is also above the target 60%, and I'm very average at both roles. I don’t know too many people with numbers below the targets unless they meme around or let people go.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088468#Comment_4088468
Everyone uses matchmaking lol. Like literally. Are we adding custom games into this or something? Yeah I pull way back when I see it's heavily skewed as well. Not all of us care about seeing four skulls on the results page I agree. I know that's that light you'd like to be painting me in, but that's not the case.
We've already seen stats that the majority of games are not solo queue, so lets nip that right here at the beginning. My argument is not that slugging is skillful because I think I'm skillful. That's what you're reading, not what was actually typed. Do you think survivors regularly give props in end game chat to killers regardless of if they play nice? What a lovely world that would be lol. I play lots of other killers normally, that is not what happens. Also, whether someone gets mad about slugging is irrelevant. What if someone is angry at me just because they don't like the killer I picked? Is that my fault too? Or is that now a them problem? IE the point is their anger has to actually be rational anger. We can't cater to irrational nature. It also does not only work because they aren't ready for it. This is just trying to paint it in a light that supports your opinion you already want to believe that it's "exploiting people" when it's not. Slugging is normal game play, that's why there's quite literally perks for it. It works regardless, it does not require unexpected game play.
Lots of people think lots of things are infuriating every day because of a multitude of reasons, that doesn't imply those things are objectively infuriating. Like I think the true real reason people hate slugging is because it's strong and it hits peoples egos. Someones ego is not the other persons problem, especially with what we're talking about, which is doing it strategically and not with toxic intentions.
Yeah I pull way back when I see it's heavily skewed as well. Not all of us care about seeing four skulls on the results page I agree. I know that's that light you'd like to be painting me in, but that's not the case.
You're not exactly selling compassion here. How does one pull back with a three digit streak? I can't go ten matches without feeling obligated to give someone hatch or let two or three people leave because of circumstances outside of their control. Different players are, in fact, different, and should be viewed as individuals. If someone throws because they dont like the killer, I kill them, but that means someone else gets to leave because it was unfair from the get-go.
We've already seen stats that the majority of games are not solo queue, so lets nip that right here at the beginning
So if I'm playing solo and i match with a duo am i somehow not solo anymore? You're also assuming everyone in a party is on comms, and that the comms are being put to practical use. Some people are just chatting with friends because they play games to have fun. Strange, but true.
Like I think the
truereal reason people hate slugging is because it's strong and it hits peoples egos.The ego in play is here is the killers, who thinks it's acceptable to make you lay there and wait for them to win and deny you any opportunity to really play, because they care so much about the results of a video game.
@Zakon05 said:
This discussion about skill feels like it misses the point a bit, no?
It doesn't matter if it's skillful or not.
The point is that it works, it will win you games, and it is god-awful to play against. Just one match against this playstyle makes me want to turn off the game.
I am also not alone in feeling this way, in fact it's nearly unanimously agreed that it's awful to play against. Even killers who do it know it's terrible to play against, they just feel "forced" to do it because they think hooking survivors is an active detriment.
Now, I personally think they're being a little dramatic about that. I also think they're wrong that it's just objectively better than hooking. Killers who can do it most effectively are already high tier, anyway. But nobody can tell them they can't do it if they want to, they're not breaking any rules.
This is a developer problem. They need to both make this playstyle less effective (preferably by nerfing Coulrophobia so that it doesn't affect people who are downed) while also buffing the perks get for hooking survivors to make it more enticing. Buffing Pop was a good start. I wouldn't mind seeing bit more regression on Pain Res, for example.
Even killers who do it know it's terrible to play against, they just feel "forced" to do it because they think hooking survivors is an active detriment.
This particular narrative is going around amongst high KR, high hour killer mains as though they're reading it from a script they all rehearsed in a Discord server together. They don't feel forced, these perks have been in the game an other killer players manage, they just know its an easy way to beat most people.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088394#Comment_4088394
It's not cheese at all and it's not exploiting anything. Everyone uses the bad matchmaking and it's extremely counterable, not even to a difficult degree. I'm sorry you don't agree, but it's very skillful.
Well for one, we already know the majority of matches are not solo queue first of all. Secondly you just look for the survivor on the ground. It's not hard. Takes time yes, but he's also not getting all the regression benefit that he would get from hooking with the meta regression perks. I won't really get into perks since you want base kit references but vigil hard counters it and is literally meta atm. How do they know where the killer is? Literal game sense. I don't run aura perks on survivor and I generally know the rough location of the killer most the time. This isn't a 12k hour thing either, it's basic. You're literally comparing apples to oranges. This is a silly comparison that doesn't work at all.
Painting someone as a heartless robot for a play style is quite ridiculous. People being irrational isn't my problem. I'm not accountable for instability. I would rather always be slugged than hooked. Me having fun isn't the killers responsibility. Especially when nothing is being done with malintent and simply strategy. Just because I think it's ridiculous to be bothered by slugging doesn't mean I'm going to shame or mock those people, they can feel how they want to feel. Trying to paint someone that slugs as a bad person is wild. That is part of the problem right there.
Not everyone uses matchmaking. Don't put everyone in your box. I pull back when I see the match is skewed heavily in my favor, and I usually let someone have hatch, or let multiple people go, when a match is terribly unfair, or if someone threw. Not all of us care only about seeing four skulls on the results page.
So you've deemed tunneling as unskilled despite it having similar pitfalls to what you mention, but somehow slugging while using Blindness, Undetectable, and certain perks against soloqers is skillful. Your argument seems to be that you've decided that slugging is skillful because you think you're skillful. But something tells me your end game chat isn't full of "wow Mr. Killer you're so skillful." This strategy works solely because survivors aren't ready for ir, because it circumvents normal gameplay. If they knew in the lobby this would be happening and could adjust their builds you'd have a much harder time. It works because it's unexpected, not because of skill.
What's wild is participating in something you probably get told dozens of times a day is infuriating then trying to wash your hands of the responsibility of making people feel bad over a video game with dbd's most toxic mantra—I'm not responsible for your fun. You are responsible for their misery though.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088334#Comment_4088334
Not of equal skill or unless being on an S tier killer. I disagree as a general sentiment for the vast majority of the roster bar the survivors just having an exceptionally bad game.
Yes, they are counterable. They're just simply more counterable with a swf on coms, which the game isn't balanced for anyway.
It's not cheese, it works on lots of swf as well. Full slugging takes more skill than not full slugging. I think tunneling is cheese which is why I don't do that, I think it takes skill out of the game. Slugging does not take skill out of the game, I'd even argue it adds more.
Matchmaking is bad I agree.
Winstreaks mainly work though because the majority of players aren't very good on both sides.
The majority of people don't have 12k hours in this game and don't treat it like a job. This is cheese if for no other reason that you know you're exploiting both bad matchmaking and a bad system with nearly uncounterable tactics. If you were playing perkless and add-on-less, that would be skillful, but this is not.
Tell me how a soloqer counters Blindness, where they have no idea where a slugged person is? And how do they also counter not knowing where the killer is and getting slugged too? Would you like it if survivors could make you blind to gen locations (which isn't as bad, because they're static) as well as having no scratch marks or aura readability all match? Would you call that skillful on their end?
I don't know what it is with certain members of this community and talking about emotion as though this isn't a silly video game meant to be fun and not an exercise in pretending you're a heartless robot. You're doing things that are well known to make the majority of players unhappy, the sort of stuff that makes people quit the game, and for what? What do you gain?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088318#Comment_4088318
You're attributing winstreaks to slugging instead of the skill of the player.
A skilled player can 2 hook everyone before killing and win. You're using Blindness and Undectectable, two uncounterable status affects, and slugging, which also has no basekit counters. And all of these are specifically anti-soloq tactics, and ones that people dont see coming because they expect a normal round. That's cheese. Cheese and bad matchmaking are the only reason winstreaks are possible, and that's exactly why both need fixing.
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"Fixed an issue" lol OK. This was supposed to be here this whole time and it took years just to update text?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088196#Comment_4088196
So you're correct there are many of those perks for killer as well. The problem is that most those perks have been nerfed extensively over and over and over to the point where the pros/cons list of what you get from hooking vs what they get has tilted further and further to where it's now not nearly as worth. Disproportionate value basically.
I agree hard slugging is very difficult especially if they have anti slug. Not that you said this, but many like to call hard slugging as a way to win if you're bad at the game which I very much disagree with. In general winning from a 4 man slug is very difficult as it requires a high amount of skill to juggle everyone. However if you're a good player I do think it's the better route. If you're not a really good killer then it's still probably not. Killer dependent as well. The more and more punishing hooking has become though it's becoming more and more the better route. In general if a group is getting 4 man slugged they were either significantly worse players than the killer or they made many, many mistakes. It isn't just something that an average player is going to see lots of success with, especially if the survivors are of equal skill.
I actually run full slug builds on multiple killers you didn't mention very effectively. Namely Knight and Sadako, who also are both considered very low tier killers by most the community. By effective I mean a 165 win streak on Onryo and a 207 winstreak on Knight (this one's still going). There are more factors that make this play style good than just lethality and map traversal. Onryo it's the additional side objective they're having to manage while also juggling pick ups and gens. It becomes a lot, especially if you also throw in a hex build for a fourth objective to juggle. Knight is extremely good at it because for one he has Grim Iron Mask for 75 second Blinds that you can aggressively spam which is essentially a perma blindness on the entire survivor team. Even with swf's on coms it slows down their pick ups a ton with just a bonus of turning off all aura perks which are popular. Secondly, being able to permanently keep 2 people in chase all game is massive. That means if even 1 survivor is down that means the entire team is off gens. I'm chasing one, guard on another and last is looking for pick up. If you ever have 2 down, they are one mistake from gg, since if I have 2 down and a get a guard on one and I find the other, it's over. Throw on top of this Town Watch's Torch and I'm also essentially perma Undetectable all game as well. Just pointing out that it works on more killers than you'd think. While Coulrophobia is good for what you're talking about, it's not even needed. I don't run it on any of my slug builds.
So you think it's completely fair, balanced, and acceptable to have something in the game that allows three digit winstreaks, a thing that should not be possible?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088138#Comment_4088138
I am 100% certain that people who go for 4 man slugs with specific builds do not even want to play DBD. They want to play a different game where Survivors only have one life (I see hook stages as lifes), but the game is not balanced around that and Survivors are too weak for that.
Whoever goes for 4 man slugs as Killer is bad and has no way in talking about "the highest level" or whatever stuff they make up.
I think they want to exploit an easy tactic that most people aren't prepared to counter. I just don't really understand why, aside from this unstoppable thirst to win at all costs. To me, if you don't want to engage with a proper match or treat your opponents as humans, why not play a pve? I'm convinced some people in this game have no motivation greater than making strangers feel bad. Which is why I find any mention of skill expression while I see endless cheese in my survivor matches comical.
And then they just blame perks, because God forbid your opponents have perks. I do find it particularly funny that the same people who said "just bring perks" about tunneling are now saying "just slug" to avoid those perks even being usable.
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As much as I don't love that the killer/map combo often determines a match, that is kinda the game.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088153#Comment_4088153
I'd say nuclear bomb is not a good comparison but something that will advance a countries economy to be a superior one and world leader is. I'm intentionally keeping this and "we" vague as to not turn this conversation into one that could be construed as naming/shaming or targeting. An "arms race" per say in essence, yeah, I think it is.
There is LOTS of ai that is not something silly like a dog walking on its back legs so I wouldn't call that a genuine comparison. There is lots of ai art that is not art theft so I think calling all of it art theft isn't genuine. Lots of ai art isn't brainless tick tok or youtube scrolling. Again, I think that's putting it in the worst light possible. The more profitable ai is, the more money is put into its advancement that can make it accomplish important things for mankind. So I think looking at it as an extremely oversimplified version of "destroy environment for tik tok art slop" is a very, very inaccurate way of viewing it.
I don't doubt the effect of modern industrialization on the planet but I do disagree with you on the severity, and yes, there are endless scientific articles on this.
I don't share the hyper-capitalistic view that certain nations' wealth and technological advancement trumps the well being of the planet or the respect of artistic endeavors, one of the few human traits I view as having any unique value. Art and ethics are what make humans, and if you throw those away, there's just a simple, greedy animal left. I wouldn't call it naming and shaming, but it's a small collective of the usual suspect nations that are driving AI.
You said entertainment. Stupid crap on social media is a common daily use for AI by regular people. If you believed in AI solely for useful endeavors than it should be heavily restricted in its usage, to things like business internals or medical advancements. Those images fed to AI to make it's "art" belong to people who never gave their permission. I've never met anyone who has even an inkling of creative spirit that supports this concept. It's always people who consume and consume but never create, and too many cultures are caught up in that horrible loop of creative emptiness. Why write a book when AI can do it? Why spend days painting what AI can do in seconds? The answers are clear to me but they're growing more distant for many.
We are at the point with temperature rise where reversal is impossible and adaption is necessary. And doing things that continue to push the environment more will only worsen the situation. By the time we get to this point where AI is super helpful abd useful, we will have made the planet significantly worse through water usage, mining, and greenhouse gas emissions.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088141#Comment_4088141
The problem is we put restrictions and others do not which leads to us falling behind in the ai race. So those restrictions solve nothing but losing in technological and economic advancement.
What would make it not a good comparison? We've caused some damage yes but what has been gained? Should we perpetually have stayed unadvanced? I also don't know if I'd agree on the severity of detriment to say we've altered the natural course.
I don't think I've implied all creations are good nor would anyone. Is music or art for entertainment purpose useless garbage? I guess I wouldn't agree on that.
I'm not sure who "we" is. So is this an arms race? "We" have to invent the nuclear bomb as quick as possible so the world can live in fear of its power?
Yeah a five second video of a dog walking on its back legs is useless garbage. I don't know how you can believe any amount of art theft or environmental destruction is worth the brainless scrolling on Tiktok or Youtube that has done human society oh so much good. That's not worth a single drop of water. It's also cheapness at it's core. If you want a custom pfp then pay an artist or make one yourself. Same goes for huge companies that can afford artists. But if you doubt the effects modern industrialization has had on this planet then yeah, that's the end of the conversation. There are endless scientific articles on it.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088135#Comment_4088135
If there was a statement saying they don't and then they did I can understand that frustration. That's reasonable.
AI stealing art is an issue if it is, but I've seen tons of ai that does not. That seems more an issue with design than the concept of ai itself. Something that can be fixed.
Environment issues is reasonable but I guess I see the future advancement from ai as worth the cost.
The AI is also coming whether we like it or not so I guess I view embracing it as the best option lest we will simply fall behind the advancement of those that will not slow down its development.
This makes me think of like pushing back against the discover of engines and using gasoline. Bad for the environment? Yeah, but the other option was staying using horse and buggy and be left behind technologically. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Just because a thing is happening doesn't mean you shouod let massive companies do what they want. AI needs restrictions before the damage is too high, and that doesn't happen by rolling over.
I don't know if that's the best comparsion. In just about a hundred years of refining oil we've detrimentally altered the natural course of climate on the earth. I can't say I see ugly music videos or chibi pfps as "worth the cost" as much of AI is being used to make useless garbage for social media. Humans have made many harmful things that we'd be better off without. Not all creations are good.
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Wild people will defend this sort of unengaging misery and non-gameplay in the name of some valueless win. "Skill expression" as it's finest in the dbd community.
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@FerrousFacade said:
The bands drummer says it wasn't AI. I am not denying that it looked terrible but bad CGI has existed since long before AI has. I don't know how someone at BHVR OK'd the video when so much doesn't line up with DBD but there is no real evidence of it being AI.
Yeah if anything I was just shocked by how hideous it was. I didn't guess AI, I thought it was just ugly.
Ice Nine Kills has made light of using AI before so I'm not sure what to think here.
@Blueberry said:
What's the issue with using ai?
There are many, many, many articles on why using programs that make fake art by auto-stealing other people's art is bad, not to mention the stress that these data centers are putting on the environment and the skyrocketing tech prices the RAM shortage is causing. BHVR also had a message at the start of the stream saying there was no AI, so if there was, even from partnered content, that's not a great look.
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@zonkednb said:
David King is the one that interests me. I'm very familiar with the area he's from in the lore and know the accent/patter he'd have really well. His current VA is Stefan Hovarth (dev not professional VA iirc), who I'm unsure could reprise the role and pull off a convincing Mancunian accent.
However, if they recast David, we may lose his screams, and that'd hurt. David's screams are part of the DBD ambience to me.If they recast they should keep the screams and cries and whatnot. That's the only middle ground. That or add settings for original or new VAs.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087723#Comment_4087723
Not everyone has the game on more than one platform nor the financial states to get another platform. That's the entire point of this thread, which you seem to have missed.
This person is specifically saying they don't want to p100 again, which is a different thing entirely. I'm not assuming anything. If you're talking about doing this then you would logically be talking about another platform and not understanding that cross progression exists/how it works.
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@vol4r said:
I personally don't enjoy talking in dbd and avoid talking survivors, that's just not for me.
Hopefully mute button will be implemented.
I will cry if my survivors start dropping bad jokes.
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@Skeleton23 said:
Yeah and I may Quit DBD if they discontinue The Switch. Im not gonna put my time in another console just to keep playing. I spent 3 Years Getting my Unknown up To P100 and im not gonna spend 3 more years getting him back up there.
Also I highly doubt that they will. Because it might result in losing a great chunk in there player base.
But it will result in huge Delays in Updates on multiple platforms
You don't lose your account/progress. You just need to cross progress on your new platform. Many people use more than one platform with the same account.
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Even capped at 60fps it sounds like my PS5 is taking off for flight when I play this game. My Steam Deck has to be at both 60fps and quality set to low just to not crash. This update looks great and all but if they couldn't even give 120fps to consoles how is this going to go?
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Oh no, that's terrible. I wish him a full and swift recovery.
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I'm on console and this is a pretty unkind way to approach this. There are a few things to consider:
This game is free for PS and Xbox premium subscribers, so you have a constant influx of new and casual tourists. This means a lot of bad players that don't care that much about the results of the match or at getting better.
Console players have to deal with input lag.
Consoles are capped at 60fps.
I can tell when I'm playing against survivors on kbm at 120kbps. These people are very hard for me to deal with when they're skilled. I simply cannot move like they can with joysticks.
"Learn to loop" isn't a simple solution. There's a gap that is unfixable. You can overcome it with a lot of effort, but you always have to try harder than your opponents if they're good players.
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I go to Halloween Horror Night at Universal Studios almost every year. They occasionally do video game related houses. There was a Resident Evil 2/3 one one year. I keep hoping they'll do DbD cause the production value is higher than you'd likely find anywhere else. Blumhouse movies are heavily represented so I imagine whenever the movie gets made they'll likely be a house based on that.