cogsturning
cogsturning
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Not only will it keep your MMR low, it will raise their's and push them out of their league too fast. Obviously it happening here and there isn't so bad, and MMR gains are based on your opponents MMR as well, so you likely aren't boosting them much, but it's a thing to keep in mind.
As for the second part, it depends. But it's not as though they can't offer themselves up to die if they feel so inclined. Can't say I see much of that. Personally I love a friendly killer when I play survivor but my matches are pretty sweaty on both sides, so any friendly interaction is a nice break, rare as they are.
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
Jason has terrible game design. I don't feel like writing much because the developers don't care about it, either. The power creep is insane, and I'm honestly tired of people trying to defend every new overpowered slop killer that comes out.
This is how I felt during the ptb. It was pointless to resist. The fanboying and desire for easy wins dominated the conversation.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091856#Comment_4091856
Jason should be the pivot point in which all killers are balanced, and if you think jason is a problem then those other killers need nerfs too. You don't get to say "you are comparing him to the best killers" yes, i am, if those killers aren't getting nerfed then why are we nerfing a killer that is worse than them?
Blight just got nerfs and he's getting more. People have wanted Nurse nerfs forever and it may happen, but these two aren't the same as Jason. They both take time to learn and are unmanageable for many. They also only have singular abilities. Jason (and Ghoul) are easy mode, Nurse and Blight aren't.
If every killer is A+ or S than the game is unplayable. You do have to have enough people willing to sign up to be stomped every match. There are only so many masochists. I'd never play survivor again if this happened, and you might not finding winning all your matches boring, but I would, and so would many others.
Some people do like simple killers, and some people like skill-based ones. Not everyone wants their mains to be braindead like Ghoul and spam city like Jason, or to be 5 killers bundled into one. I certainly don't want my preferred killers to be buffed into the sky because one ptw killer was released.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092016#Comment_4092016
I always run light-footed but aside from that it helps if the killer attempts to look around for you after downing the survivor. Background player is still strong yeah, but I definitely think the perk has potential.
I find people creeping around waiting for saves whether they have scratchmaka or not, and yeah, Ghost Notes and Lightfooted also exist. A perk that might occasionally be useful in a very specific builds is yet another bad perk.
@Rokku_Rorru said:
I'd rather they have just let the community see how much of a problem it is, then change it… that's the approach with Jason right? lol
Funny how that works.
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I don't think this has really been a trend. Jason outclassing most of the roster with his overstuffed, overturned kit feels very much like a money grab form a long sought after (and probably expensive) license. Compare him to the most recent killers.
Henry is not a good tunneler whereas Jason is probably the cheesiest tunneler in the game right now. Both these killers can stay in their traversal powers infinitely but Henry is loud and visible whereas Jason can only be perceived on maps with grass. Henry's Undergate cooldown is 35s compared to Jason's 12s, and he doesn't get haste or KI but has to stay 4.4 and get destroyed by survivors holding W.
Krasue was a busted mess that was immediately nerfed but she also was designed to come out with anti-tunnel so that was probably just unfortunate.
Springtrap has static teleport locations that are broadcasted before he exits. He needs at least 10s between axe throws.
Ghoul is the only killer I'd compare him to and even he has less in his kit. I will say the next killer looks equally concerning. They are over complicating killers and giving them too may abilities.
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@pidgeon said:
Only working outside of chase works great. If a killer runs to your gen, crouch, they kick it, you sprint burst away with elusive. Or it can be used for sabos or flashlight saves since self preservation got changed. Either way it will still be really strong you just have to think about using it now.
How does being Elusive help much with flashlight saves if you're already running behind the killer? You still have footsteps and breathing noises, and no one is running Awakened Awareness. Background Player is the much better option.
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@MilkToast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091645#Comment_4091645
Your probably gonna suffer the most since it's a very survivor sided event
@Knightofzer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091637#Comment_4091637
The event sounds like its going to be god awful for killers anyway so i think queues will be quick when people realise survivor is probably the event queue power role with those absurd sounding benefits. On paper i don't see why i'd play killer in the event ever. Will probably just play normal 1v4.
Depends on how easy it is to poison the food or how hard it is to assemble the banquet. It's unlikely to be survivor sided against all the Jasons since everyone will be crouching around. They'll barely be able to to do gens so much as a side objective.
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@Brimp said:
Hawk uuhhhh: counterforce.
"Just get a perk that's behind a paywall to counter a potential build on one killer"
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091662#Comment_4091662
How long of a cooldown do you want?
For context, here are the cooldowns of some killer powers:
Nurse: 6 seconds
Spirit: 15 seconds
Blight: 10 seconds
Hillbilly: 0 seconds (outside of the miss cooldown i guess)
Springtrap: 0 seconds (outside of the animation for coming out i guess
Do you know how long jasons is? It's 12 seconds.
You're comparing him to the strongest killers in the game as though that's how all killers should be but, aside ftom Springtrap, they're also killers that do only one thing. Compare him to other killers that have more going on, especially ranged ones with traversal.
Henry's Undergate has a 35s cooldown, he can be seen and heard while in it and he remains 4.4 with no free haste and no KI.
Vecna's fly has a 20s cooldown, flight of the damned is 30s, dispelling sphere is 30s, mage hand is 35s.
Unknown has a teleportat cooldown of 40s and its locations are much less available, as well as dispellable.
Dracula only has a 3.5s shape-shifting cooldown but the bats are very loud, very visible, and can only perceive scratchmarks and sounds.
OE puts all of these traversal abilities to shame and has a much smaller cooldown as well as infinite duration, free info, and no way to know where he is if there's no grass on the map.
Also, Sprintrap's axe takes 10 or more seconds to recall. He can't just grab another and keep tossing them. Comparing him to Springtrap in any way except to show that Springtrap has been power crept is just wild.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091635#Comment_4091635
Move the goalposts much?
What does this have to do with density though? A new pallet location spawn isn't the same as density. Density means things close together. There's one palllet here. For all I know this is the only pallet on the whole map. You're just complaining about pallets existing.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091637#Comment_4091637
As tempting as it is to DC against Jason I'm not 100% sold that's the right move.
No, I mean don't play the event as survivor. I'll play it as killer to get the unlocks and then I'm peacing out. Events are always sweaty and this one is on track to be hellish with how this game feels right now.
I would say very much don't DC against Jason. Matches with DCs are tossed out of the stats they give us so they may well also be removed from some of their internal calculations too. Those endless 4ks need to be properly calculated if anything is to change.
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As the person above said, it has its goods and bads. If used right, it's great for doing behind the scenes movements and getting safe unhooks. Using it wrong, or against a killer that hard crutches on post-hook aura, gets your team killed faster. I've also had people running it against me that seem to think it makes them invisible, but as it turns out, I have eyes.
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The solution is to not play it. Let the endless Jasons wait in their endless queue.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091544#Comment_4091544
Here you go, regular match, proof the pallet is spawning:
Ok, a pallet is spawning. And I'm glad because that room is a death trap. It's been in need of a resource.
Do let me know if it stops you from winning all your matches though.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091534#Comment_4091534
These are spawning like this in regular matches, its just easier for me to check a custom since i can't pick the map in a normal game.
Do you have any kind of evidence to support spawns behave differently on customs?
I don't have a screenshot of the match because I don't really care enough to use it as leverage in the forum.
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I don't think they're AI but I do think the collection is super ugly. I'm looking forward to the desert themed Rift they showed in the stream. That one looks much nicer.
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Customs aren't always accurate to pub matches. I just played in a custom on Gideon where only one gen spawned on the upper floor. Never seen that happen before in a pub match.
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I've yet to even receive any email.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091212#Comment_4091212
it's a relief that forced Hesitations range isn't the same as a killers terror radius
Would be horrendous if so, and would be in these awful builds.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091136#Comment_4091136
I feel like im repeating myself, but…
HE NEEDS A LONGER COOLDOWN ON OMNIPRESENT EVIL.I said it was too low when he was on pbt and its still too low. Every time you miss with him, there isnt really a punishment. Just leave chase, grab another spike and either come back or just go across map to find a new chase in seconds.
Its infuriating how much he powercreeps other killers, not even looking at addons.
He does need a proper cooldown, yeah. He also doesn't need haste or KI.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
I honestly don’t remember the last time I saw this perk used in one of my survivor matches. It’s been a very long time. The fact that I basically never see it used, ever, tells me that it’s not very problematic.
I saw it six hours ago and I see it fairly frequently in hex builds.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091210#Comment_4091210
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091212#Comment_4091212
I agree in some aspects that the others are good for overall slugging. However the problem is that forced hesitation forces survivors into really unfortunate lose/lose situations. Examples being:
- Slugged survivor gets picked up in front of killer without wglf, they instantly go down then the second survivor gets two tapped. And if they don't pick up the survivor that is possibly minutes off of their life if they are being camped in a 3 gen as there is zero slugging anti-camp.
- It also is surprisingly great for tunneling as if a survivors teammate is forcing themselves to be downed the injured survivors gets hindered.
- Amazing snowball potential especially on certain killers as being up is significantly more dangerous than it would be otherwise.
Forced Hesitation is really just made in such a way that it couldn't create a healthy gameplay loop without a rework.
I mean, sure, it does what it does. I use it in builds with Weave/Franklin's to stop sabos, which is what I think it's best for. But I've gone against problematic slug builds many more times than I'd prefer lately and this perk has never been included. I barely ever even see it. Rework it or not, I don't really care, but I'd prefer to see Infectious look more like Forced Hesi, with a smaller range and cooldown.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091202#Comment_4091202
infectious and coulrophobia are fine honestly the only one I have a problem with is forced hesitation
Forced Hesitation isn't that bad. It's range is pretty limited. The slug builds that are going around never include it. The problem is Infectious and Coul.
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@Jay_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090562#Comment_4090562
I would arguse The First was and still is overtuned lol. And i say that as a Vecna (The First) Main
Overtuned in what way?
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090955#Comment_4090955
He actually is strong.
No other killers has
- Mobility so great
- Projectile
- Zoning ability
- Free survivior position reading
- Free vault block ability
- double hit ability
On top of all those his special ability literally makes survivior stop doing things for long time (especially good with hex ruin).
He can protect hexes very well
Great at basement camping
Great at camping 2nd stage if surviviors wait till last second
Directional audio cue when he teleports isn't greatest on the survivior side.
He doesn't care much about palletsAND his 4.6 m/s speed boost is too easy to obtain and long enough to make significant differences.
He just has so much free things in his kit… it's ridiculous.
No one protects this killer but killer mains - every killer main says he is the most balanced killer in the game.
Not a single "full" survviior main agrees.
He makes the games pretty boring - I feel like I start the game all over, crouching somewhere in the map trying not to be found.
I really hope for some adjustments.
I just feel like, I don't know, why aren't people angrier? Why aren't they louder? Are these Jason supporters just lying about him being fine because the want the easiest time they've ever had in this game? I'm just so baffled by this praise while I'm playing against the most free, the most overstuffed, and most forgiving killer the game has probably ever seen.
I mean, he even gets TBtC clock as an add-on while fulfilling zero activation requirements, and an anti-Exhaustion add-on too. I normally advocate against Exhaustion but it's pretty much your only chance to make distance from him, and even I'm so desperate I'm running Overcome—but then it just gets countered by the add-on anyway.
I never want to hear a word about skill expression ever again from anyone who thinks this killer is B tier or fine as is.
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What on earth is happening in this thread?
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This sounds like someone with low hours and low knowledge. All you have to do now is check teammates perks. If I see someone cleansing a dull totem I check it and sure enough it's almost always Inner Strength or Overzealous. Even before that I generally assumed an injured person getting in a locker was Inner, and that others were Built to Last, or that they were countering aura.
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@OskarUNLEASHED said:
Am I living in some alternate reality where people are deluded? The numbers don't lie. Jason has the highest winrate BY FAR. He is so very overpowered.
Having such a high winrate when the killers are new and learning to play him is insane.I feel the same way. Almost everyone I know, across all skill levels, high and low hours, is miserable. Even in a 4 stack with skilled players we get wiped. I've never seen such mass unhappiness with this game, nor have I ever felt so much myself. Yet I come to the forum and see "he's fine" or "he's B tier". Compare him to other killers who are considered B. Hell, compare him to As.The only one I'd say he's similar to is Ghoul in that he's low effort high reward.
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I really wish people would stop blaming the SWF boogeyman for their loses. I play in both SWF and solo and average the same escape rate in both. Maybe slightly better in solo because I won't die for randoms. I've been in solo matches where we synchronized perfectly and the killer surely thought we were SWF. Just the other day I popped into a killer's stream after a match to hear him complaining that we were clearly communicating. I was solo.
It's not SWF. It's that the players outdid you.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090582#Comment_4090582
It isn't. Being tunneled out at 5 gens after being hook camped and sent back to the lobby with 5k points is just garbage. The person gets no chance to play at all, never mind escape.
Again, the whole point is that the killers job is to have you not play for as long as possible. This is the killer doing their job as efficiently as possible. Thats a downside of playing an asymmetrical horror sadly.
Anti tunnel perks are trash. DS is easy to chomp through for at least half the roster. off the record is useless
So you used to have a much much stronger version of ds. It was abused again and again. If you abuse/exploit the good thinks given to you, you lose them. Because it turned into not an anti-tunnel perk but a free shield for 60s to do gens ect. However, as i said, anti tunnel perks cannot be too effective otherwise they just outright punish the killer for playing efficiently, which we both agree you don't want to punish otherwise you'd have argued against it already as it was the majority of my point.
Gen times have been increased and now most gen perks have also been hit by diminishing (while most regress hasn't). Again, we have a killer that has built in slowdown (and we're about to have another) but the cheese has been worse than ever. Half the Jasons I encounter run full hex builds with Ruin, Thrill, and Penimento. It's almost impossible to sit on gens, and almost impossible to get rid of the totems. Gen times increases won't stop cheese, they'll make it easier.
So, let me split this into 3 points.
Firstly, they got increased from 80s to 90s in 2022. Most the time theyve been kept at the 90s, and this was followed by nerfs to Pop goes the weasel (from 20% of current progress to 20% of overall progress, a huge nerf) and ruin ( percentages cut in half from 200% regression to 100%) which were the major forms of regression back then. So yes, regression was hit, massively.
Secondly- I don't know why you say the killer has built in slowdown, he doesn't. Jason doesn't require you to crouch/stop working on gens when using power unless your on death hook. He'll gain info, but nothing else. I don't know why your acting like you'll lose a health state or something if you stay on a gen when hes in power. The only reason currently it gives slowdown is because people are too scared to take chase and just sit there hoping someone else does.
Thirdly- if half the jasons run those perks (and your seeing almost all jasons), do you know what you should probably do. Run a map. Genuinely, running a map, or a perk like detectives hunch in your build and bam you can smash out those totems. Pentimento also slows down the killer, and ruin does very little rn. smash out gens and use detectives or your map to hunt them down. Hex perks like devour, ruin and pentimento are common anyway so taking it shouldn't be a burden at all.
However, this isn't a argument against jason (the third one), but an argument against that hex combo. Other killers also use that combo a lot, so maybe you should focus your energy at that here.
If you abuse/exploit the good thinks given to you, you lose them
Idk who this "you" you keep referring to is but if this were true, something would have been done about egerious tunneling and slugging. Sometimes they're tactical, sometimes they're desperate, but often they're abused. I just got out of a match with a Billy using the slug build that's been going around. Everyone slugged with no gens done. I got less than 3k points you can't tell me that's not abusing a bad system. Yet anti-cheese survivor perks get nerfs.
But do you not see the issue with saying "just bring perks" and I say "those perks suck" so you go with "well, there's a reason for that"?
So yes, regression was hit, massively.
I was talking about diminishing, which hit almost all gen perks. The increase did come with nerfs to regress, yeah, but diminishing hit gen speed boosters drastically more than gen regress. This idea that killers will be nice if gen times go up is nonesense. Gen speeds can't be changed without anti-cheese going through too.
The only reason currently it gives slowdown is because people are too scared to take chase and just sit there hoping someone else does.
Yes, that's how you do it. That's how we've been doing it in SWF, which is the only way I'll touch survivor right now. How often do you see soloers electing to take chase? The matches are stalling to a halt constantly even in SWF. The few solos I attempted were even worse.
Genuinely, running a map, or a perk like detectives hunch in your build and bam you can smash out those totems.
Finding them isn't usually an issue if you know the game. It's having enough time to get rid of them with Thrill and often FtD while managing his free info. Also, Detective's Hunch is behind a pay wall.
However, this isn't a argument against jason (the third one), but an argument against that hex combo. Other killers also use that combo a lot, so maybe you should focus your energy at that here.
Thrill is bad as is, but these builds have been basically autowins on Jason. If you don't do the totems he keeps chasing you off gens and they regress. Most are using Badge too, so free regress just for existing. If you do the totems you'll likely be found cause of free info. It's hard to do them against a halfway decent killer without coordination.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090542#Comment_4090542
im on a work call and browsing forum (hush) and i almost lost it seeing henrys face in the last pic there
Not what I wanted to look at when I bought this skin.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090519#Comment_4090519
To pretend like one side doing efficiency is toxic but the other isn't is what my post was saying.
I dont care the motives behind why someone plays efficiently. I wouldnt complain about a survivor looping efficiently, hugging the curb, bringing the optimum perks ect because thats them playing well. The gen rushing occurs when a killer doesnt apply adequate pressure, we agree. But you can bring things to make this harder on the killer, such as meta perks, a maxed out toolbox ect ect.
People complaining about tunneling are because its "unfun/takes them out the game" you dont know, nor care, why people are tunneling most games. Its a thinly veiled excuse to hide the fact that your mad you got taken out of a game that you believe you deserved to have escaped. To pretend otherwise is ludicrous. The unfun part is sadly a part of an asymmetrical horror, where the killer has to remove people from the game and is doing so efficiently. The devs have already given you some handholds, such as basekit BT and haste, as well as perks you can (and quite often do, according to survivor pickrate) take to make it as inefficient as possible because that's the nature of the game. They are aware of it and have put things in, but unless they wanted to casualise the entire game, it isn't feasible nor fair to add.
Any complaint about tunnelling has to be calling for a more casual game, because in nature your asking to stop the killers being efficient. However, in the past when survivors were asked about increasing times on gens (which would be one of the many steps theyd have to take to make it more casual friendly for killers) it was overwhelmingly outcried by survivors publically because that "wouldn't be fun". You cannot have it both ways, you cannot force the killer to remain casual whilst survivors can play in an efficient manner. It just isn't logical nor reasonable. The game would die the second that happened, and that's why I often remark the similarities between "gen-rushing" and the outcry against tunneling. Both are outcries against efficiency, and both should be treated with the same vein of respect.
Its a thinly veiled excuse to hide the fact that your mad you got taken out of a game that you believe you deserved to have escaped.
It isn't. Being tunneled out at 5 gens after being hook camped and sent back to the lobby with 5k points is just garbage. The person gets no chance to play at all, never mind escape.
The devs have already given you some handholds, such as basekit BT and haste, as well as perks you can (and quite often do, according to survivor pickrate) take to make it as inefficient as possible because that's the nature of the game.
Anti-tunnel perks are trash. DS is easy to chomp through for at least half the roster. Off the Record is useless.
However, in the past when survivors were asked about increasing times on gens (which would be one of the many steps theyd have to take to make it more casual friendly for killers) it was overwhelmingly outcried by survivors publically because that "wouldn't be fun"
Gen times have been increased and now most gen perks have also been hit by diminishing (while most regress hasn't). Again, we have a killer that has built in slowdown (and we're about to have another) but the cheese has been worse than ever. Half the Jasons I encounter run full hex builds with Ruin, Thrill, and Penimento. It's almost impossible to sit on gens, and almost impossible to get rid of the totems. Gen times increases won't stop cheese, they'll make it easier.
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Been happening to me on PS5, yeah. It was happening when ST 2 dropped and then it was fixed (maybe with the Tricketsrr mid chapter? I can't recall.) And now it's happening again.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090511#Comment_4090511
what that means as a survivor is that instead of playing casually you progress your objective quicker, like the killer is doing, in the most efficient way. That might mean bringing sweaty perks, a maxed out toolbox, whatever floats your boat. You say "thats not avoidable" neither is it avoidable for the killer to not kill you. its part of their job. tunneling is just doing it efficiently. Complaining about tunneling should get as much respect as complaining about gen rushing, but it doesnt.
Just because one of them takes the other out of the game doesnt change this, thats sadly the nature of assymetrical horrors. The killer to win must kill you as quickly and effectively as possible. And survivors, they must rush the gens and loop and link tiles as effectively as possible to escape. Its like complaining about survivors holding w key, ridiculous.
"Gen rushing" is something people say when they lose. It's a vague, abstract idea. There could be zero gen-boosting perks in play and no toolboxes and they'll say gen rushing. They could commit to one survivor for two minutes to get one hook and say they're being gen rushed. There's nothing else for those other survivors to do if the killer isn't spreading pressure. The killer, however, gets to choose who they'll hook next. Hooking someone three times in a row is tunneling. That part of it's definition isn't vague. Actual gen rushing is a 4man bringing full gen builds. I've never had that happen to me in thousands of killer matches.
We currently have a new killer who has built in slow down. He goes in OE and everyone gets off gens. I haven't seen this much inactivity in my matches since I was in the baby leagues. And do you know what I've seen in 50ish matches against Jason? Hard tunneling at 5 gens in almost all of them. More than I've probably ever seen in a short period. The gen rush excuse is bs. Killers default to tunneling either way. You slow down the gems and they just keep tunneling.
It's only the nature of the game because this company is too spineless to stop it. They tried. They put a bunch of work into a whole new gameplay system—and then they immediately caved to killers screeching that they'd quit the game. It's not like they're unaware of the problem.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090324#Comment_4090324
I agree in the sense one is furthering the game.
Both are competitive esq behaviours though. As said, teabagging can be used to further the game especially if you are good at chases and want the killers attention. I believe teabagging and tunneling we're brought up by OP hence why i used them in the quick post i made.
"you and you alone are responsible for your behaviour"- i agree in the sense that if someone goes to stab me i might defend myself. If you go into games after a hard day at work and are met with humping/ hitting on hook after some particularly hard day you might be inclined to play a bit better and sweat after those games.
Im saying that quote for those that believe toxicity is one sided and their just reciprocating it to those that are indefinitely more toxic to them. If they believe their side is the non-toxic one, then they can also prove that by removing their toxicity.
I believe teabagging and tunneling we're brought up by OP hence why i used them in the quick post i made
Thr comparison is common. Tbagging tilts killers; tunneling frustrates survivors. Their similarities are that they both generate anger. We once had a thread that was pretty eye opening for me. I don't remember the topic but a lot of killers said they started tunneling not because of the classic "it's a strat" but because of tbagging, because dead survivors couldn't tbag them. At some point, I guess those sort of people stop doing it out of anger and just do it all the time. The connection between the two things is often emotion and not strategy.
i agree in the sense that if someone goes to stab me i might defend myself. If you go into games after a hard day at work and are met with humping/ hitting on hook after some particularly hard day you might be inclined to play a bit better and sweat after those games.
But what does that mean as survivor? I get humped for 4 games in a row and just decide I won't get downed so it doesn't happen again? That not really avoidable. But if I switch to killer and tunnel indiscriminately because I'm angry then that's childish. If you're playing out of anger then it's not tactics, its just random punishment.
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The only effective match-start method I've discovered after probably 50+ matches against him is that if you're good at chase, you make yourself visible during first OE and elect to take it. This works well in SWF because you know who is and isn't good and can plan. It's a lot harder in solo. Not even normal solo hard, but extra hard. If everyone gets on a gen and you let him find whoever, if that person is bad at chase and goes down in 10s, his tunneling and camping potential is so extreme the snowball can be hard to stop. Even if you get three gens done before the chase ends, he can still be a huge threat, and teams need to again elect to take aggro by running during OE to protect that potential tunnel target. Hook states being a shared resource is a very important piece of macro to keep in mind against him especially.
In my lobbies, it's basically been a requirement to coordinate everything we do, and even then, the vast majority of matches against him have been losses.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090305#Comment_4090305
I said unfortunately simply because the design of the character is out of our control. Aside from that I don't find tunneling much of a problem its just another strategy used to optimise the game. Sure its sweaty but at least that survivor gets to do the most fun part about survivor which is being in chase. Plus luckily nowadays its really hard to tunnel anybody with relatively good looping skills especially due to all of the new buffs to survivor we've gotten as of late.
I had a Jason come back to basement when i was hooked, throw a hook into me as I ran up the stairs, down me before i could do anything because the recovery after a throw is crazy fast, and then mori me. From unhook to down was 10s. Is that the most fun part of the game to you?
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He bounces between boring and extremely frustrating for me. Not my two favorite feelings.
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I run little to no meta on either side and I do fine. You only think there's no other option.
The reality of it is that Behaviour has nurtured their game so poorly they made a community of hateful people who hate pretty much everything and a game that almost nobody finds fun anymore
BHVR didn't do this, the CCs and social media did. Some clown posts a video of whining about how strong something is and then the mindless followers of those CCs immediately start parroting it online. The community itself allows toxicity, rivalry, and bias. However, I do think BHVR likes it and uses it as fuel but i don't think it's fully on them. If all you do is play the game (without chat) you have no idea how bad these people are.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/468788/when-survivors-encourage-killer-tunneling
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090212#Comment_4090212
My one cent in this is that if you play the game to win, on either side, you should expect the other side to do the same. If the general survivor community is ok to gen rush, teabag at exit gates ect, they should also be ok with killers camping, tunneling and slugging ect.
If the community wants to shift to a more casual style of play, absolutely and once one side initiates this if the other doesnt then we can morally shame one side ect, but the complaining about efficiency on one side needs to stop. Survivors can encourage tunneling in many ways, and it could be from the match before ect.
Ive always been a "play how you wanna play" kinda gamer, so maybe im underthinking this.
Tbagging and tunneling aren't fair comparsions. Tbagging is a usually pointless exercise in gloating; tunneling removes someone from the match. It's like some people are so tilted over someone tbagging them once that they use it as an excuse to punish random strangers.
And nobody voted that tbagging is fine. I don't tbag and it doesn't stop killers from tunneling me, nor does it stop them from the actual equivalences like hitting me on hook or humping me for no reason. But I don't react like a child and start tbagging random killers, nor do I become a merciless monster as killer, even if I get tbagged every match. Reacting that way is an inability to manage emotions.
If the community wants to shift to a more casual style of play, absolutely and once one side initiates this if the other doesnt then we can morally shame one side
There aren't sides here. There's no committee voting on these. Most people likely play both, and the way they act on one side is the way they'll act on the orher. You and you alone are responsible for your behavior.
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@Jay_Whyask said:
I'm struggling to tell if this post is satire or not.
I swear I've seen someone make an identical post to this but about Survivors having Sprint Burst, Finesse, too many resources, & aggro Endurance + DS about a month ago.
Even the formatting seems similar, this genuinely might be a copy pasted inversion of another post.
Also, I agree, specifically with Jason's infinite duration of Omnipresent Evil.
I mean, we have that post like every three days.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089694#Comment_4089694
You're acting like you can't find people with Sprint Burst out of positioning and these people just Sprint Burst everywhere.
As I've said on Reddit, you can give someone Sprint Burst but does that mean that they will Sprint Burst towards a chaining tile? If you are playing a 4.4 or a 4.6 depending on what it is, you're not telling me what killer in question we're talking about to expand off the initial claim to talk about counterplay against SB.
I don't know of any activation requirements you can potentially do towards Sprint Burst and if it's an activation where you have to be healthy, people will just move to Lithe, then we have people complaining about Lithe.
People will say Lithe and SB takes no skill and has less restrictions than the others, but the other ones require you to be healthy (Overcome and Dramaturgy), specific to the killer behavior (Smash Hit and that's not even guaranteed as killers respect pallets anyways), or Head On (which makes you have to stay in a locker for a specific amount of seconds to activate).
But again, to each their own - without you telling me what killer you are using, we are just theorycrafting without giving me a proper 4.4 movement speed on why you choose to abandon chases.
The killer doesn't really matter, nor is it about me specifically. Many players won't waste their time on someone who preruns away at rapid pace when they can just turn around and go back to a hook and find an easier target. The people I play against who run SB, Vigil, and Ghost Notes/Lightweight are not trying to extend chases, they're trying to avoid them. People can defend SB all they want but I'm telling you as someone who believes in spreading hooks that nothing will make me go back to the hook like this perk.
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I need whoever downvoted this to tell me why.
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They count as kills in your stats. On the survivor end, the match is removed from their stats entirely.
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Yeah this is how I feel. I've had chases with Jasons zoning and just continuously picking up spears and chucking them 5+ times before finally getting lucky. The reload is too fast for me to get away, and even if I did, he'll just teleport to a 1000 possible Iocations and cut me off. It's like a combo of 5 different killer powers but all made much easier. The reload is fast and plentiful, the hitbox is big, the haste makes the 4.4 pointless, and the teleport is fast with the locations of return being almost on demand. And he gets KI on top—so he doesn't even have to think—and it makes hard tunneling by returning to hook very easy. He needs larger cooldowns on pretty much everything.
It doesn't feel great to lose every match to what feels like skillless spamming. I don't want to hear this community taking about skill expression if this is what they support.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089658#Comment_4089658
While I want to argue this - you're right about the fact that we need pure data. We really do need a perkless mode to gather data and see the balance state as it truly is before the conversation on that side could go much of anywhere, huh?
I don't know how there's any other way to know, not with how much randomness there is in each match from a zillion possible perk interactions. If they could see how every killer in every MMR bracket does on every map then they'd have answers that exclude benefits beyond basekit. But, again, matchmaking needs to function or the data would be useless. A high MMR 4man stomping a low MMR GF is not useful data.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089382#Comment_4089382
I think the notion of just nerfing perks because they're used is a bit of an issue when it comes to the game.
I am still of the opinion that making Dead Hard hardlocked to two uses and not letting it operate on an exhaustion meter like the others is a bit of a hard nerf and I say that as someone who never primarily used the perk.
You make Sprint Burst into Dramaturgy when it already has the restrictions it has by making you have to learn the mechanics of 99ing the SB and using it on-demand, which most people do not know and will walk everywhere just to save the SB.
Even under the idea that you can only use SB as a healthy person? Or however you are implying it should be nerfed would just push more people towards Lithe, which then people would say it's too strong → then we get into, "Well, Lithe should only be used when you're healthy." but to each their own.
Popularity isn't the issue. When people use SB against me as a 4.4 killer, I ignore them. A perk that makes the killer decide you aren't worth the effort is not a good thing for your team. Lithe is different. It has an activation condition, and one that can be botched. All the other Exhaustion perks require you to do something have something done to you, or have a downside. SB is just free, and it often makes killers not even chase.
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My problem with OE being infinite is mostly with end game. If he slugs for the 4k it's gg. You can't crouch for 4 minutes without getting crows but as soon as you do anything else hell get free info. Getting the gate open as the last person is nearly impossible too, unless you have a whole build for it, because even if you do the thing where you only partially open it first, he'll see you on it and pop out.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084897#Comment_4084897
Because I play random perks I rarely have exhaustion perks and have to admit you don't need them when you just play with that in mind.
Yeah I don't believe they're needed at all. People are just used to them.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089646#Comment_4089646
Seconded. Exhaustion and slowdown going wouldn't break my heart. Provided, of course, some kind of gen lock occurs to avoid 5 minute total-gen completions - in which case Killers reasons for running regression become invalid and we can all be happy.
Get the average match completion to 10 minutes or so, kill exhaustion speed perks, kill regression and gen locking. Or, that'd be my personal take on the goal anywho.The problem with doing that is the same problem we have in Chaos Shuffle, where killers just tunnel at 5 gens and use the lack of gen regress as an excuse—and if gens are basekit slowed that becomes even easier. I wouldn't want to see changes in gens without anti-cheese with it. A lot of killer-players win consistently without any slow down so I don't know if it's truly needed or people just think it is, or if matchmaking is at fault for 5 minute survivor wins (as it likely is for 5 minute killer wins as well.)
The only way to really get a clear picture of whether or not any further adjustments would be needed would be to do a perkless modifier and use it to gather data. And if every match had hard tunneling than it would be good for gathering data on that too. I wish they had a mode like this to get raw data every few months.