Zakon05
Zakon05
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094923#Comment_4094923
928 on lara. I barely play ghoul because i've been waiting for a rework that will likely never come or the hate to die down. (big fan of Rize from the anime though). Mind you i play the whole roster constantly on both sides (10 p100s). So if i were playing only lara this whole time, shed probably be out of cakes. Rize still has 1107 because ive probably used her 6 times in the entire year.
Just play Ghoul. You bought the licensed chapter, you bought the licensed skin, play the character. I promise you that it's morally okay to play as a video game character that some people find annoying.
Besides, if there's one life lesson that DBD has taught me, it's that anyone who would actually complain about something as simple as what killer their opponent picked are the people you should be the least concerned about upsetting.
(Of course I mean people complaining at the killer here, nothing wrong with privately grumbling to yourself/friends) -
Not saying I don't agree we need to have more cakes, but it's actually slightly better BP efficiency to grind them on your p100s.
It costs about 1,100,000-1,200,000 BP to prestige a character once. Because the cakes only appear at certain levels, you can only get a max of 27 cakes on killer, and a bit less on survivor since the cakes appear on less levels for them for some reason.
You get 1 cake guaranteed per p100 bloodweb, and you can get through 30 bloodwebs for the same amount of BP. Which means a bit more for killer and several more for survivor.
The levels the cakes appear on by the way are:
Killer: 3, 5, 7, 10 (two on this level), 12, 13, 15, 20, 24, 25, 28, 29, 30, 31, 33, 35, 37, 38, 39, 40, 42, 44, 45, 47, 49, 50.
Survivor: 3, 5, 7, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 28, 30, 33, 35, 38, 40, 42, 45, 47, 50
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094730#Comment_4094730
Pallet density came AFTER years of bs powercreep in new/reworked killers, not before.
It also followed years where we were repeatedly told by killers that we couldn't:
- Balance massively overperforming killers that outclass the rest of the roster
- Add any guardrails to prevent the match being forced into an unwinnable 3v1 asap
- Have a functioning matchmaking system that consistently puts winstreak streamers against teams that have a chance to compete
Also, there's nothing fun or agency-giving about playing survivor and being chased in a deadzone. Like literally nothing. And same as killer. I never think to myself "wow I really outplayed this person" as they get to decide between looping 2 barrels or a tree.
Getting chased into a deadzone before pallet density only happened if your allies recklessly threw every pallet instead of trying to conserve them.
Something which used to be a bad play but now doesn't matter that much.
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Because BHVR keeps making the same mistake that the community does.
They need people to play survivor, and they think that survivors think winning is fun. This is the same trap the community falls into when they say survivors only like playing vs low tiers, while ignoring survivors hate a lot of mid-low tiers, like Clown, Hag, Trickster, Legion, Skull Merchant. Meanwhile there's mid to high tiers that people generally like, like Hillbilly, Wesker, Dracula.
Survivors like having agency in a chase, they like being able to predict and counter what the killer is doing, they like being able to utilize multiple forms of gameplay styles from aggressive looping to stealth.
Why can't we get people to play survivor 2v8? Because getting pincered isn't fun. You can't survive that except through dumb luck. You can make survivor the most OP thing ever and people would still rather play killer because as killer is always fun. It can be VERY frustrating due to horrible maps and other gameplay mechanics, but the act of playing the role and all the various killers is fun, survivors only have fun if the killer is one that lets them express their game knowledge and prediction skills instead of limiting their options in chase like a Clown bottle or something.
The pallet density update was this personified. Made killer more miserable to play and required them to make killers with absurd mechanics like Ghoul, new Myers, and Krasue in order to keep up, didn't actually make survivor more fun to play because the new killers are frustrating to play against.
Black Banquet? Let's give survivor some of the most egregious BS this game has ever seen. But then killers get a poison vial that's a Clown bottle and it no longer matters how survivor-sided the event is, nobody likes being snared to walking speed.
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@jayoshi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094719#Comment_4094719
I never noticed that. They were just gone. Like they even did the invisibly in front of me and I didn't notice a sound or blue splashes. I'll have to pay attention when the next killer challenges come out.
I just don't get why they gave survivors a bunch of new mechanics they can do and took away all killer mechanics from the previous event and just gave them a clown bottle. I wouldn't mind all this extra stuff they gave survivor if killers could remote hook, remote break pallets, etc like in previous versions.Absolutely. In fact I'd rather have those than the poison bottle.
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@jayoshi said:
They need to get rid of that and being invisible. It sucks because now I can't do the killer challenges unless I farm. I just got done with a game where survivors were able to turn invisible and you just lose them. As someone who has been playing since 2019 and was very excited for this huge milestone - I'm extremely disappointed. I say this as someone who legit plays both sides.
Once I get my challenges done, I just go back to normal and deal with the long wait time if I want to play killer. I would love to play the event as killer and have fun - but yeah… that's not happening.The invisibility is the one power I kind of enjoy playing against. You do need a good set of headphones most likely, but if you're good at Spirit or Dracula or just following survivors while blinded, you can keep track of them due to the humming noise they make while invisible.
This makes it the only event power with actual counterplay.
The invulnerability and speed burst are basically both old versions of Dead Hard, where survivors could use them to ensure they make it to that window or pallet and you couldn't do anything about it. And of course the 60 seconds of unbreakable pallets is just absurd.
What I don't like are the portals that the invisibility comes with. Those are incredibly annoying. And sometimes survivors go down on top of them and the prompt to pick them up gets overridden by the prompt to enter the portal. You have to waste extra time wiggling to get on top of them to make the prompt show up, and it gives people extra time to position for flashlight saves.
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Asymmetric is not a genre, is the problem.
DBD is horror-themed freeze tag with easy to understand mechanics but an enormous amount of depth. There's nothing else like that except for Identity V, which is not competing with DBD due to being a mobile game.
People say this or that game will give DBD competition. Are they horror-themed freeze tag? No? Then they're not competition.
Palworld also isn't competition for Pokemon btw. Palworld is competition for ARK. The reason Nintendo is going after them is because Palworld copied their art style and then Sony bought Palworld. When Palworld was just some indie game, Pokemon didn't care, but now that Palworld is part of Sony, Nintendo is worried about Sony cutting into their merchandise sales by merchandising the Pals. The games are way too different to be competition as games.
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"Wacky and goofy" in this case being unbelievably powerful effects.
Be glad killers are queueing for the event at all.
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@Dem34888 said:
Its 3, 5, 7, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 28, 30, 33, 35, 38, 40, 42, 45, 47, 50 for Survs
14% for random badge with event item, or something like that
0.5% for additional cake in all web, or something like thatI will verify this the next time I am able to play and grind more BP, which should be later tonight. However, from my earlier testing, I still got anniversary spawns on all of the levels I listed, they just weren't always cakes. But they were always cakes on the original 14 levels from yesterday.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093997#Comment_4093997
I got cakes on levels it was not given even two in some levels but those might have been one that gave one already.
Sorry I misspoke, yesterday you would get additional cakes randomly by bulk spending between the guaranteed levels of 3, 5, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 28, 30, 35, 40, 42, 45, and 50.
You never got additional cakes from manual leveling. Yesterday manual leveling would only give you a max of 14, where bulk spending would give you a random amount. The way to maximize yesterday was to bulk spend up to that first set of levels since it would give random cakes.
I banked 20 million blood points for this event and spent another 5 million on top of that that I earned from playing, since I played a lot yesterday, I never got a cake by manual spending except on those levels. But I did if I bulk spent.
This is no longer the case after today's patch. I spent another 9 million figuring out what I posted up there. Cake levels are now set in stone. 3, 5, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 28, 30, 35, 40, 42, 45, and 50. 7, 10 (again), 13, 24, 28, 29, 31, 33, 37, 38, 39, 44, 47, and 49 are the new spawn levels, but they could be other random event items for survivors.
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@Wezqu said:
Or just use manually on all levels as that is the only real way to you to maximize the cakes. With auto things you are going to miss cakes.
You will not. I've done this 10+ times manually and a mix of bulk and manual. You never get cakes except on the levels I listed.
Yesterday this was true, today it's not.
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The event for survivors is overly complicated, it took me 5 games to even really understand what it wanted me to do. In fact I had to play killer to understand the potential of it.
But then once you go against survivors who make the most of the event, it's one of the most horrible times I've ever had playing this game. The survivor powers are unbelievably frustrating to play against.
But also the killer power is awful to play against. It's just not as good as what survivors get, but getting snared into walking speed is no fun.
Why did we get rid of Twisted Masquerade, again?
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As a horror movie mega-fan, I've had the game on my radar from around when Freddy was added. The only reason the Freddy DLC didn't bring me into the game is because I thought it would work like Friday the 13th where the killer is randomly chosen.
Then I watched Hololive play it around when Mikaela got added, and I learned you get to choose which side you play. I bought it during the stream and I've been playing ever since.
And I generally have a good time doing so.
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@Senaxu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092661#Comment_4092661
Interesting, but I don’t really agree with that.
Maybe you weren’t around for The Ghoul release, or maybe you just remember it differently, which is fine. But Kaneki also came out in a very problematic state and was pushed pretty heavily from a marketing perspective. Obviously not on the same level as a 10th anniversary chapter with Jason as the main flagship character(special livestreams, huge announcements), but still a big release.
He is in a much healthier spot now, but on release there were definitely serious balance issues that got addressed step by step over time.
That is basically my point. Big releases can come out overtuned or in a rough state, especially when there is a lot of marketing behind them. Then, once enough time, data, and feedback exist, they get adjusted.
I’m not saying Jason has to be gutted. I just don’t think it is unrealistic at all to expect adjustments when his current risk/reward is this far off.
I was around for Ghoul. But I feel like you're changing your argument a bit here, which I understood to be that they deliberately overtune killers on release to make them sell better.
Like Ghoul I think is actually an example that they don't balance to push sales. Ghoul's initial nerfs took him from high A-tier… to high A-tier. In fact in some ways he became stronger since they toned down that ridiculous auto-aim, allowing him to more easily use advanced techniques like dashing past survivors to cut them off. He's caught more nerfs since then but his tier placement has barely moved.
He definitely sold a lot, as a lot of people picked him up, as evidenced by the fact he's been one of the most popular killers since he came out. You'd think they'd have nerfed him by now if sales numbers were their motivating factor, since the community has been crying for his blood since day 1 of his release and he's still possibly the most hated killer in the game.
To tell the truth I don't even understand what their balancing philosophy is. Like Dracula and Springtrap, for example.
Dracula released strong and got buffed after release. Springtrap released mid and got nerfed. Neither of these things make sense.
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@Senaxu said:
I’m sure Jason will get some adjustments once the sales numbers are within the target range. Right now, Jason outclasses a lot of similar killers, like Wraith, Huntress, etc. After a month or so, once enough revenue has accumulated, they will address it. That’s just the usual process.
My Dredge would love some extra lockers on certain maps too. Too bad he is not a licensed killer with heavy marketing behind him.
I really don't understand where this narrative came from, it has absolutely no basis in reality.
The only times I've seen killers get released OP and nerfed quickly were Xenomorph and Krasue.
I swear this talking point appeared overnight after Chucky got nerfed an entire year after his release. Not even after his initial rework, since he was still strong after that.
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@Brimp said:
That actually is a pallet spawn all though a bit rarer. That has a chance to be a god pallet.
That does explain how this happened then, but it seems like normally that spot can only be a generator or a pallet.
I don't know, I just feel like an effectively 115% movespeed projectile killer doesn't need to be able to spawn that close to generators with no warning other than you know he's moving around somewhere on the map.
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@Green_Sliche said:
Maybe if pallets were closer to gens….
It's pretty rare for a generator to not have a pallet or window very close to it.
And then apparently if there isn't one, the game just makes an extra spot for him to teleport to.
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@MorelClaudette said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092331#Comment_4092331
I think not too long ago, Hens did a showcase of the "worst killers" where two killer mains of Trapper, Skull Merchant and Ghostface went against premade swfs to find out which killer can do best overall.
And Jesus Christ, PixelBush's Skull Merchant gameplay was INSANE. The way he uses her drones is something to behold. So yeah, he might be THE Skull Merchant main.
My only problem with him on Skull Merchant is he had some of the dumbest arguments for how to counterplay her. I'm not saying she's strong, after her rework to kill chess merchant she was never that strong, but she never stopped feeling bad to play against.
Like "just crouch to avoid the beams if she drops a drone in a loop" which Scott Jund correctly pointed out that this isn't counterplay, you're just letting her hit you.
Or his counterargument for how accumulated pips from the drone don't go away being to intentionally let the drone injure you while she's not in chase with you. I've tried this several times and no matter how safe I feel like I am, it never ends well. It's just not a good idea to injure and inflict broken on yourself and then give tracking on yourself to a killer with the ability to remove her terror radius.
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Oh I just remembered one more. LittleSpaceRock is an absolutely cracked Spirit, by far the scariest I've ever gone against.
I've played against her twice and lost horribly both times. One time I had Iron Will and she had 0 problems tracking me.
The second time I could even tell it was her by how deadly she was before I even saw her username. She just played the killer better than anyone I'd ever seen and I was like "This is LittleSpaceRock isn't it"
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There's only three I know of.
Knight: zmpixie
Xenomorph: Mr. Headache
Sadako: one pump willie
Also, Pixel Bush, although he's primarily a lore guy, is also apparently cracked on Skull Merchant and knows a lot about how to bring out the most of her potential.
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092154#Comment_4092154
I agree.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091858#Comment_4091858
unless you're a teenager with no job, its shouldnt be that hard to buy auric cells or use Iri shards if ya got'em.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092149#Comment_4092149
and how often do soloqer face a "Hex-Jason"? Just deal with it the best you can or start running anti-hex builds and hope you face a Hex-build. No one wants busted killers that give easy wins; you just call him that cause you want easy escapes or just dont want to learn and adapt. Do you really want another "Slaughtering Strike Myers"? Cause thats eventually what you're going to get if you keep pushing these nerfs onto him.
How often do solo queue players face the most popular killer in the game using his most popular build?
I mean take a guess.
It's honestly a breath of fresh air when I go into Jason and he's not running this build. Like, oh yay, maybe this match will be fun for once.
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@Abbzy said:
Jason highly is countered by bodyblocking teammates he has only timed speed boost and his spear is one time use and then he must go out of chase to reload or he must use omnipresent but that can be used to gain huge distance or compleatly dissapear from him.
If he continues to chase he is just 4,4 m/s m1 killer which he cant afford to do so, so teaming against him like against krasue works its bit weaker then against her but it has its advantages.
Jason is not countered by bodyblocking. If you try to run behind a survivor to take protection hits, Jason can impale you with his spear and smash you into the survivor you're trying to protect, injuring them similar to how Wesker does. If a survivor is standing in a choke trying to block you, you can enter Omnipresent Evil, which will cause Jason to hit the survivor in your path and then allow you to move past them in the same motion while also resetting his movespeed buff.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090546#Comment_4090546
No your not unless he has addon thats klinda busted the exhaustion one or you have sprint on cooldown but thinking you done when running sprint is kinda nuts that perk gives you huge chance.
Most Jasons are running Sauna Rock for this exact reason. In fact the Jason I was facing in this screenshot was running Sauna Rock.
I took Sprint Burst when normally I don't like running exhaustion perks because I thought it might help mitigate this problem. However, the Jason I faced in this game showed me the problem with that idea.
You can avoid getting exhausted by crouching, but this might be a bug, as the wording on Sauna Rock implies you should get exhausted whether or not Jason successfully Jump Scared you.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/468809/how-to-counterplay-jason
Why are we advocating for inefficiency?
I'll just edit videos in:
https://youtu.be/xkhvcydOLnA?is=fzdZxNz7cfRCa6ab
https://youtu.be/41uNLIRWJi8?is=ETq-T5iOLW6qz60_
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If you are going to give us counterplay, show us footage. We do not need to crouch and whatever else to win against Jason and it kills match tempo to just be like, "If you're injured, stay off gens." - like, that's not good advice at all. Maybe if you're struggling and cannot hold chase but I have been able to hold chase while injured and telling people to avoid objectives is bad advice.
The problem is how close he gets to spawn to you. He can spawn extremely close to people on gens. Like look at this screenshot, for example.
I don't care how good of a looper you are. If Jason teleports to that pallet next to me and I'm injured, I'm dead. He just gets to start the chase in way too favorable of a position. If I were injured here, this is the kind of situation where I'd need to play passively.
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@Abbzy said:
So you can totaly counter his tracking and even best addon that exposed just by holding ctrl.
And people call it op so now where 80% or more your opponets will be jasons you can make build against him and it will work majority of your games. Very bad counter indeed.
You can even make him get chase you or your teammate so swf can only show him survivors that are good for them to be chased and totaly leash him like dog.
He cant see slugs due to how his power works only walking or sprinting survviors or working on something but it hides all blood and scratch marks when he uses his power only the ones that were spawned before he entered omnipresent will be visible for him untill the dissapear.
Truly rich counterplay especialy for stealth enjoyers. Where you are all those "distortion" people.
He is out for 3 days and everyone is mad lol.
I don't really think that it's a good idea to make a build to specifically counter the newest killer or survivor perks.
Yeah if it's something gimmicky that normally struggles to get value at all like Bada Bada Boom, I can see you wanting to run that while there's a new killer who is particularly vulnerable to it for a change of pace, especially since it's not that effective.
But like people who run Counterforce and Urban Evasion because they're really good against specifically Jason, I don't think that's a good idea. Better to get used to beating him without that.
Since unless they do something to change Jason in this regard, Hex Jason is gonna be just as oppressive as he currently is once he becomes less common, but you won't know how to deal with it.
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I really appreciate him finally debunking the fog thing. There's a lot of people being condescending and acting like Omniscient Evil is just a travel power and that you can tell how close the killer is based on the fog thickness, when on my end I haven't noticed a difference.
I had a feeling it was "just watch the shards" 2.0
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089998#Comment_4089998
I saw Scott's video and laughed at that part, like he's talking about how well designed Jason is and then his solution of what to do to counter him is to just stop playing the video game. Like brother do you hear yourself?
You're misunderstanding his argument.
He didn't say stop stop playing the game, he said play more cautiously when you're in danger. This is something you should already be doing regardless of killer.
Do you have no hooks, or the least hooks in your group? Work on more dangerously located generators and play more bold so that you attract the killer's attention. Force them to choose between pressuring a less vulnerable survivor and protecting an easily patrolled generator, or letting that gen get progressed while they search for survivors who are closer to being removed from the match.
Are you death hook, or at least one of the few people on your team who has already been hooked? Play more cautiously, try to avoid notice, work on safer generators so the killer has to go out of his way to find you. Even if you're not death hook, you don't want to be placed closer to death hook, especially if it's early in the match with multiple gens left to do. If you end up on death hook at 3+ gens left, you become the killer's easy win condition, they're going to be looking for you.
This is just good practice in general.
So how this applies to Jason is: you work on gens and let him find you in Omnipresent Evil if you're in a good state, and if you're in a bad state, let go of the gen and start crouch walking so that he can't find you.
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In a bubble, yes, it's fine. The counterplay to it is being cautious and taking things slow. He can stay in the power forever, and although I think it's boring and uninteresting to just do nothing until he comes back out of it, that is what is effective.
In practice, Hex: Ruin and Hex: Thrill of the Hunt exist, which is the problem. You can't afford to play like that, but he's also really good at guarding the hexes because you lose all progress on cleansing them if you let go and his jump scare can force you off of them.
If you stick the gen, he could emerge 5 feet away from you and you begin the chase in a horrible position. If you play passive, Ruin decays your generator. Sprint Burst mitigates this but I would really rather not run that if I don't have to, I prefer playing without exhaustion perks.
He just needs to give slightly more clue as to his location than he currently does, imo. I've heard people say the fog thickens if he's close to you, and maybe, but I think people are just imagining that and the fog naturally oscillates between thick and thin. I've had the fog appear extremely thick and then he emerges from power nowhere near me, not even in terror radius range.
If the fog thing isn't actually a clue, he gives the least hint as to his location of any killer in the game. Even Wraith has his raspy breathing and shimmering which forces him to make use of LoS blockers on the approach. The only one comparable is Dredge, who is much less lethal in chase.
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He's definitely not weak. Doesn't seem too strong.
How much fun he is to play against is a different story.
I thought he'd be fun to play against, but in practice it's like playing against a Deathslinger who can move at normal killer movement speed, has instant reloads (which yes are not fully under his control), no range limits on shots, and has extremely powerful map traversal.
I didn't think the map traversal would be that big of a deal since I like playing against Dracula for example, but Dracula has literally no hints as to your location at all other than scratch marks and blood pools, and the bat screeching is intended to make it hard for him to hear you. Which makes bat form feel a lot more engaging to try to play against and forces Dracula to commit perk slots to information so he can make more educated guesses on where people are.
With Jason, he just knows where you are if you're holding still or doing anything but crouch walking, and then he reveals your location after he teleports and gets to block the pallet or window for free. Which means if you're on death hook and trying to avoid notice, you have to play insanely passively or he will find you and you might instantly be in a bad spot when he does.
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First off Marvel Rivals exists which is a game with matchmaking so bad it made me quit it, which DBD's matchmaking has never done. Matchmaking so bad that the entire community is in a debate to this day with each other arguing about if it's designed to be as bad as it is to maximize engagement.
Also the problem with a ranked mode for DBD is that nobody actually wants a ranked mode. They just want sweaty players out of their matches so that they can win easier. It'd go over about as well as Team Fortress 2's ranked mode.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088615#Comment_4088615
The win condition by slugging is literally bleeding out, not by getting a 4-man slug I don't know where you got that info from. 4-man slugs just speed up the process tremendously. Also can you please tell me what you can do on hook that you can't do while slugged. The ONLY difference is being in the match 100 seconds longer if you do end up bleeding out assuming you went through 2 full hook stages.
But until hooks are actually worth it on low-mid tiers slugging will always remain as the best choice to win. You get more pressure on average and don't have to deal with unhook perks that could be used offensively. People dont just slug for the hell of it there's reasons to it.Low-mid tier killers are the ones where this playstyle is the least worth it, since they don't have the map control necessary to keep on top of survivors constantly or extend Coulrophobia out far enough. It can work, yes, but there's a good chance you'd beat those players using hooks.
I want to point out that the video this all originated from tried (whether intentionally or not) to put its thumb on the scale in favor of slugging by only counting 4ks as a killer win. Slugging only is the playstyle which is the most likely to result in a 4k or a 0k, as in you win completely or lose completely.
And even with that in mind, hooking was only below slugging in terms of wins by a couple of percentage points. And Pop has gotten buffed since then, and we've gotten more strong perks which activate off of hooking like Turn Back the Clock, Hex: Hive Mind, and to a lesser extent Ravenous. I think it was pre-Houndmaster, too, who came with Jagged Compass which really helps scourge hook builds.
It's also definitely not the best choice for a lot of killers. Like Xenomorph for example, Mr. Headache said he found the slug-only playstyle to be significantly more stressful. And it's obvious why if you understand the killer and why the playstyle works. Xeno removes its terror radius a lot by going underground, and it's smaller than normal in crawler mode. And while Xeno has good map traversal, it can only go where there are tunnel exits, so it can't keep on top of survivors trying to pick each other up.
None of this is to say the slugging-only playstyle is not as good as people make it out to be. It's very good. Too good, I would argue. I just think people are being kind of silly when they insist hooking isn't worth it at all. If your excuse for why you put people through this is "Well I don't want to, but BHVR is making me do it" you're being kind of overdramatic.
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This discussion about skill feels like it misses the point a bit, no?
It doesn't matter if it's skillful or not.
The point is that it works, it will win you games, and it is god-awful to play against. Just one match against this playstyle makes me want to turn off the game.
I am also not alone in feeling this way, in fact it's nearly unanimously agreed that it's awful to play against. Even killers who do it know it's terrible to play against, they just feel "forced" to do it because they think hooking survivors is an active detriment.
Now, I personally think they're being a little dramatic about that. I also think they're wrong that it's just objectively better than hooking. Killers who can do it most effectively are already high tier, anyway. But nobody can tell them they can't do it if they want to, they're not breaking any rules.
This is a developer problem. They need to both make this playstyle less effective (preferably by nerfing Coulrophobia so that it doesn't affect people who are downed) while also buffing the perks get for hooking survivors to make it more enticing. Buffing Pop was a good start. I wouldn't mind seeing bit more regression on Pain Res, for example.
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@Blueberry said:
Why would they hook when the game punishes them for doing so by activating dozens of second chance perks? It actively encourages them not to hook. This isn't even counting the entire gens worth of time lost in pick up, carry, and hook animations or the risk of flashlight saves you could completely ignore. They don't really have a reason to hook.
Well except for all the killer perks which activate off of hooking people, plus the slug-only playstyle comes with its own unique frustrations.
Like if you can't keep control of the survivors and/or they're actually running anti-slug builds, it's really hard to make any headway. Like yeah you don't have to deal with Decisive Strike and Dead Hard, but you might have to deal with We're Gonna Live Forever + Made For This on multiple survivors. Also you have to snowball or you will most likely lose hard, there's no in-between like a 2k or something.
It's a playstyle that's propped up by the fact most people aren't running the very specific builds which counter it, since if the killer isn't doing it then you're basically playing perklesss. Also Coulrophobia, if that perk ever gets nerfed to not apply its effect to people being picked up from the downed state then it becomes a lot less viable.
Also, it's only really viable on Blight, Ghoul, and Hillbilly, since they're the only ones with the lethality and map traversal strong enough to keep on top of survivors who are helping each other up over and over, with a terror radius big enough to apply Coulrophobia and trigger Infectious Fright. Other killers can do it, of course, but it's much weaker on them.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/468524/slugging-kaneki-needs-to-go
The anti-slug changes have nothing to do with this. This is a problem specific to Kaneki being super unfun to go against. The reason you see everybody slugged is that they immediately give up as soon as they realize that it’s Kaneki.
I'm pretty sure this is actually a slugging Ghoul this person went up against. I know a lot of people don't like playing vs Kaneki, but it's really unlikely everyone just gave up in this clip before even trying, since yeah, no-hook Coulrophobia Ghoul is a legitimate build that is really difficult to deal with.
If you've never gone against it, I am legitimately envious of you and hope that you never have to. I'm more positive about facing Ghoul than most but no-hook Ghoul is awful.
It's not just Ghoul though. Blight and Hillbilly can also both do it and are probably better at it and it's unpleasant against them, too.
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I can't speak for consoles since I play DBD on PC, but what's wrong with controller?
Controller is a really great option for survivor in this game, I use controller for survivor myself despite being a PC gamer. Many say it's the better option.
For killer it has the same issues as controller always has for anything where you need to aim, but that's just inherent to the nature of stick aiming. Gyro support might help (if it doesn't have it already) but KB+M is hard to beat for precise aim and turning ability.
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@Dark_Vorahk1 said:
Bhvr has been outsourcing voice work for the past 5 years. They also surprise recast the entire ST survivor cast when they added the new voices. Let me tell you, the drop in Nancy players was steep and happened overnight after the change.
If I want to hear a new character I will play a new character. This is not an invitation to spontaneously rework every sound that contributed to me choosing someone in the first place.
I feel like I've seen a lot more Nancy players since that happened.
In fact on Nightlight her pickrate went from 1.55% to 4.5%. It's since dropped down to 2.22%, but that's still higher than it was before they reworked her model and revoiced her.
Not that I think anything was wrong with the old Nancy voice, just that I don't think the new one caused a dip in her player base.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086948#Comment_4086948
Infectious Fright is just as big if not a bigger offeneder with the slugging issue than Coulrophobia. They both need changes
I use Forced Hesitation with Weave and Frankin's to get reads and hits on people near downs. It's an anti-sabo perk for me, not a tunneling and slugging perk.
I don't really think Infectious is as big a deal as Coulrophobia when it comes to the slug-only playstyle.
Yes, Infectious Fright does incentivize slugging, but only regular slugging. You know, Oni trying to get more than one down with his power, Leatherface going for chain hits, finding out if people with flashlights are nearby. That kind of thing.
In slug-only, it's just an information perk, since you can't use any info perks that come from hooking people.
Coulrophobia is the real culprit. Since it slows down healing significantly which makes it hard to get the slugs up off of the ground. You basically have to let the slug recover on their own before going in to pick them up. This is what makes the playstyle so effective and frustrating to play against. It even blunts WGLF's effectiveness, which is one of the best anti-slug perks. And it happens to synergize with killers with large terror radiuses like Blight and Ghoul, who also happen to be the best at doing this.
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Survivor Perks:
- Vigil (does way too much, ruins a lot of status effect centric killer builds, buffs Sprint Burst which doesn't need a buff)
- Resurgence (Punishes the killer for hooking and then walking away from the hook, neither of which are things which should be disincentivized)
- Sprint Burst (I'm not really sure what I'd do to it, but it's the best exhaustion perk by far and leads to really unengaging gameplay)
- Hyperfocus or Stake Out (These perks on their own are fine, together they're a problem. Either Hyperfocus needs to trigger off of something other than great skill checks, or Stake Out needs to give a different benefit than guaranteed great skill checks)
Killer Perks:
- Pain Resonance/Dead Man's Switch (the main problem I have with this is that it disproportionately affects new and solo queue players, who either don't know to pre-let go of gens or can't warn their allies. Easy fix, just remove the scream from Pain Res, it doesn't even do anything anymore except specifically trigger DMS since they removed showing the survivor's location)
- Coulrophobia (the perk that enables the slug-only playstyle, basically only gets used for that. Wouldn't be a problem if not for the slug-only playstyle, but since it enables it and it is miserable to play against, it sadly needs to go for the same reason Knock Out had to get reworked)
- Forced Hesitation (this perk is only ever used for people who plan to make tunneling and slugging their main win condition. It has no other purpose, just an unhealthy perk)
- Dissolution (another absolutely dreadful perk to play against, used to not be a problem until they started adding killers who can injure so easily like Ghoul and Krasue while still being strong killers)
Special Mention
- Hex: Two Can Play/Blast Mine/Flashbang. (TO BE CLEAR, I'm not asking for nerfs to these perks, just a general mention in regards to the blind effect in this game and how I have seen photosensitive people complain about it. While killers can protect themselves with Lightborn, survivors have no protection. All three of these perks cause a sudden flash of bright light in the player's face. They really need an accessibility option to make the blind effect a screen darkening one in general so that photosensitive killers don't have to run Lightborn and photosensitive survivors don't need to worry about being flashed with bright light with no warning anymore)
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I think this is why the Pizza Goggles are seen as a good addon for him. The undergate attack is inconsistent so the downside doesn't matter.
Most really good Henry players I see are running it.
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People don't like Spirit because you need good audio to counterplay her properly and she's very strong and oppressive when played well.
People don't like Dissolution Krasue but just regular Krasue doesn't get that much hate anymore.
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@cogsturning said:
We are mad about meme perks now.
Plot Twist is not a meme perk. It's funny but it's not a meme perk.
It's like Yoshimitsu from Soul Calibur. Yes, he's funny, but he is not a joke character and he will destroy you if you don't take him seriously. Basically all of Nick Cage's perks are like this, all three of them are both funny and strong.
And no, before I go on, I am not saying it needs a nerf, it's perfectly fine. But I do want to address the notion that it's just for memes.
Ignoring the fact that what the perk does by itself in a vacuum is very effective. Basically letting you heal without a medkit 1-2 times per trial, one of them being in endgame when you might need the ability to heal yourself the most.
It's also one of the best anti-slug perks in the game. If you have Plot Twist there is no reason whatsoever not to use it when you know you're about to go down. It forces the killer to pick you up whether they want to or not. And unlike Unbreakable or We're Gonna Live Forever, it's not a dead perk slot if the killer doesn't slug, since it still has all of its normal utility.
And yes, it can be used like OP describes. You can force yourself to go down under a pallet and make yourself basically invincible. If you have an ally around then the killer can't afford to pick you up, but if the killer takes too long to pick you up then you just get up by yourself at full health. It can be paired with DS as well to create similar lose/lose situations.
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@Dem34888 said:
Plot Twist can also deactivate Corrupt Intervention, which is stupid as for me…
Yeah but then one of the survivors is running Plot Twist/No Mither lol
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Slowdown is necessary, it always has been, it likely always will be. There's only one other alternative, and it's slowing down gen speed.
I was around when they added 10 more seconds to complete a gen but also nerfed a bunch of regression perks at the same time. Ruin got cut in half and disabled itself if a survivor died, Corrupt turned off if the killer got a down (aka how it works now, it used to persist if the killer got a down), Pop got nerfed and only dealt a portion of current progress instead of total, Pain Res had its ability to show you the location of a survivor who screamed removed.
This did eventually lead to the (rightfully) loathed genkick meta, but that wouldn't really come about for a few months. Just the 10 extra seconds on a generator nearly caused a survivor strike. If you think the current "go next" epidemic is bad, it was so much worse. It was legitimately hard to play out a match without several survivors giving up. I had friends who mostly play survivors quit the game over it and they never came back.
Quite simply, nobody wants gens to take longer, even if it comes with regression nerfs. The community doesn't understand that kind of nuance. They only know they have to sit on gens longer.
If you know of any solution other than mandatory slowdown or slower gens, I'd love to hear it.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085189#Comment_4085189
It's "dumb" gameplay securing a kill, but it's abolutely reasonable to force killer into rolling dice (which is often rigged with offering) on hatch and even if you win you have to try protect exit gates, which is not really fun gameplay either and another RNG aspect.
For killer it's better and often faster to just slug third survivor. Seems entitled to ask them to do otherwise.
As survivor you don't have to participate in this and can end this at any point, so I fail to see why killer should be forced to participate either.
For all I care they can extend abandon feature, so last two survivors can abandon if one of them is on ground, then you have nothing to complain about unless you are in reality just greedy for free escape. If time is your issue, this fix it.I said everyone in the slug for the 4k situation is being selfish except for the slug.
The killer is being selfish because they want 2500 more blood points more than they care about another human being's time.
The remaining survivor is being selfish because they want 2500 blood points more than they care about another human being's time.
That's why the entire situation needs fixing. It's just bad gameplay. But it's equally dumb if the killer automatically kills both remaining survivors because they killed one of the two and it removes the whole "last one standing" aspect of the kind of horror movie this game is trying to emulate.
That being said, you don't lose if the survivor gets hatch, nor does the survivor who gets hatch win. The game does a terrible job communicating this but it is the case.
The only thing is that the game sometimes requires hatch escapes for challenges. But it also requires you to shut the hatch for challenges.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
If you find it boring just run to the killer and let him down you for quick abandon.
You act like it means nothing to escape with hatch, yet you want it so bad…
It's dumb gameplay regardless of side.
If the killer slugs the 3rd survivor to hunt down the 4th, they're being selfish.
Basically telling the 4th survivor, "Give up or waste 2 minutes of your ally's time, because I have now shown I don't care about that."
And now the 4th survivor needs to meet their demands and just give up or also be selfish and try to hide.
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@Chomperka said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085177#Comment_4085177
Yeah, thats why hatch is an issue. Honestly what kind of logic is that, killer wanting 4k is a bad for the game? Why 4k is still in the game then? Devs are the ones who should fix it, not the players.
This thread is literally asking for the devs to fix it.
This situation is one of the reasons I prefer the killer role, too.
Yes it's also dumb that two survivors have a rat-off when it's just them.
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@Chomperka said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085152#Comment_4085152
i agree with your first statement, there should be some alternative objective for survivors when 2 of them remains so they can actually put some effort instead of just hiding. I never said slugging is healthy, but game literally forces you if you want to guarantee 4k after a deserved win. Slugging at 2 survs is the most logical and rational thing possible if you are going for 4k. Only reason every killer doesn't do that because its massive waste of time. Thats what is actually silly.
Also at the end of the day for survivors its a team game, if your team loses you also should lose. It should't be allowed to take a deserved win for killer just because someone got unlucky with a team, well too bad bro, there are enough games that will allow your individual skill expression to matter more(or just play killer). "surv" side in the assymetrical genre isn't about that.
It's also a slasher movie simulator.
Ever heard of the Final Girl trope? Pretty common.
Doesn't even need to be a girl, necessarily. Ash for example is a male Final Girl.
It's just common in horror movies for all of the characters to die except 1, who then has to try to survive.
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@random1543 said:
I think shoulder to burden is fine as is and that nerf is way too much, Scream, injured and broken until they are hooked is super unbalanced.
I don't understand what situations it hurts "normal killer gameplay" just chase the person that is now exposed with no anti tunnel active because they took the hook state.
STB is also much more usable now that solo q can see team mates perks, people will slowly learn to check.The way Shoulder is used right now is not as anti-tunnel but instead mainly by coordinated SWFs who are trying to shuffle hook states around.
It usually can't be used for anti-tunnel because tunneling killers try to stay nearby the hook so that they can actually tunnel. If you are trying to help a survivor who is being tunneled, you're better off using Babysitter or Borrowed Time, which are much safer.
What it can be used for is situations like this:
Survivor A gets hooked, Survivor B gets hooked. Survivor A gets hooked again, Survivor C uses Shoulder the Burden to take their hook state. Survivor A, B, or C gets hooked, Survivor D uses Shoulder the Burden to take their hook state.
No survivors are being tunneled in this situation but it is the situation in which the perk is the most effective and most often used. This is what I mean by "punishing normal killer gameplay"
it also can only be realistically done by SWFs who are coordinated and sweating, and groups like that do not need the help of such a powerful effect.The reason I changed it to Broken/Injured is because Exposed would have a time limit which would be difficult to capitalize on, giving the killer little incentive to do so if the survivor is far away. The idea behind Shoulder is to draw killer aggro off of someone being tunneled by making yourself a target. Being injured and broken is definitely the way to do that.
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Check out a youtuber named Mr. Headache, he's a Xenomroph main and wrote an exhaustive Xenomorph build guide which Otzdarva once gave a shout out to. He does match reviews of replays people send him to try to point out how they can improve, too. I don't agree with him on everything he talks about in regards to the game as a whole, but he's a great resource for learning the killer.
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@Cornil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084502#Comment_4084502
Idk, for the majority of games I had with xeno undetectable perks were nice. Yes, it makes a sound, but it has a relatively short radius to be heard, especially with walls in the way. And if there isn't line of sight, you can easily catch survivors off guard. If I recall correctly, the xenomorph isn't like nemesis, he's fairly quiet when undetectable. Giving a little bit of basekit undetectable with an addon choice to make it even longer could probably help prevent people from pre-running, allowing him to use addons like acidic blood more often, closing a little distance to use his tail attack more consistently when ambushing generators. Pair it with the addon that adds exhaustion for 30 seconds to survivors who place turrets, and mindbreaker to prevent exhaustion from decreasing while working on a gen, and you could have a pretty nifty jumpscare build for holding down generators in tight areas, like jungle gyms or rooms of indoor maps.
The problem with undetectable perks is that the flamer turrets still notify the survivors that you're getting close to them.
This is an aspect many find disappointing about the character. The xenomorph in the movies is famous for being an ambush killer that gets the drop on you. You could try to circumvent it with the build you're talking about here, but I don't know how well it would work.
If I had to think of a way to buff Xenomorph, this is what I would do.
First, make the current effect of Self-Destruct Bolt basekit (increases vaulting speed while in crawler mode). In my opinion, not only is this addon almost mandatory, it also helps realize the fantasy of playing the xenomorph, which is the whole wall crawling aspect. Allowing it to vault faster natively would help.
Then I would make the Self-Destruct Bolt make the Xenomorph immune to the motion trackers while not inside the tunnels, enabling undetectable builds.