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Zakon05

Zakon05

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Zakon05
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  • 20260603134444_1.jpg

    Xenomorph does not nee a buff.

    The character is basically as perfect as it can be with this design after the last set of balance adjustments it got.

    Once mastered it is a high B/low A tier killer.

    The problem with it is that the core design is flawed in that the flamer turrets are an enormous turnoff to people who want to try to learn the character. Once you learn how to play around them, they are no longer a big deal.

    The only way to fix Xeno's pickrate is to completely rework it so that the flamer turrets are just simply removed from the game. This would also necessitate rebalancing several other aspects of its kit.

    For better or worse this is the design we have, and I can't think of a single thing they could adjust about it. It doesn't need nerfs but it also can't really be buffed in any way without making it obnoxious to play against, akin to how it was when it launched and it had basically no punishment for missing a tail attack.

  • @random1543 said:

    They need to start spawning pallets based on the killer you are versing

    is this too many pallets for killers such as ghost face and unknown? yeah.

    Is this too many pallets for the top tiers like ghoul and nurse? not at all.

    You know, it's not a terrible idea to increase pallet density for killers who have been proven to be high tier.

    The question is if we can trust BHVR to implement that correctly lol.

    "Our stats show that Sadako has the highest kill rate, so she will have the highest pallet density"

  • @esarraf said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084082#Comment_4084082

    Scream perks, multiple killer powers like say doctor or legion. I mean I know that some people may say that's unfair to nurse and blight but eh I'm fine with perks that are stronger against S tier killers and make lower tier ones good. You can also try using undetectable since the perk has the requirement of being in the killers terror radius so once again a perk that is weak against killers like ghostface and wraith. Then there's just undetectable perks in general, and since the effect only lasts for a few seconds you can also just use a bunch of aura perks to find the survivor again.

    I will say it's extremely rude of you to assume bad faith but I digress. Also, there's always mindbreaker to counter sprint burst from gens and there's the new divine killer perk coming out that halves the effect of any exhaustion perk if I recall correctly.

    Anyway killers do have it easy, I mean for goodness sake tell me when there's a thousand+ survivor escape streak and I'll fully agree that survivors have it too easy. Until we get to that point however I'll continue to point out the basic truth that this game is fundamentally designed to be catered to killers. Just look at how the devs tried making hits fair by making them validated by the server and killers complained and instantly got that removed. They have literally come out and said they balance the game around the killers winning 60% of the time, objectively killers have it easy because the developers of the game are balancing it in their favor.

    Scream perks won't help, I already explained why, stop bringing them up or refute me and explain why I'm wrong (you can't, because I'm not, and you don't know what you're talking about).

    The rest of this post confirmed my suspicions: you do not play killer, you look at the killer role as a monolith, a single role where everyone who plays it doesn't care which killer they pick, not 43 different characters. You have such a lack of understanding of any killer that it's actually insane. You must literally never pick the role ever.

    Doctor is less effected by it but means nothing to people who don't like playing Doctor. He has a really niche playstyle based around carefully timing shocks to deny survivor actions without losing distance and he's also one of the weakest killers in the game.

    Legion has always had the problem that after the first hit, they must chase you like a normal killer, which means their power doesn't counter this perk.

    Ghost Face can be revealed out of stealth from wonky angles or just by other survivors who might be nearby not actively involved in the chase. He's also extremely weak and it means nothing to people who don't like playing Ghost Face.

    Wraith handles jungle gyms like an M1 killer, his stealth doesn't work in chase except to deny holding W or to try to get hit at chest-high wall 50/50 pallets where Cross-Examination doesn't do anything.

    This is tangential to the discussion about Cross-Examination but you do not want to use Mind Breaker if you want to counter Sprint Burst. Mind Breaker makes Sprint Burst 10x more effective, because the most effective thing you can do with Sprint Burst is use it mid-chase instead of at the start of a chase. The only thing you did is make it easier for the survivor to 99 their Sprint Burst. This is why you almost never see anybody but stealth killers run it despite the fact Sprint Burst is so powerful.

    You don't even understand how aura perks work. You think aura perks are just a button the killer presses that tells them where the survivors are for free? The closest it comes is Nowhere to Hide, which still requires a gen with progress on it nearby to kick.

    And no, killers do not get thousand+ win streaks. Blight and Nurse got those. Because they're insanely overpowered. Most of the killer roster is not them. And they don't care that much about Cross-Examination. Because Blight can so easily pivot between chases, if he loses a survivor because of Cross-Examination then it's quick for him to get into a new chase. Meanwhile Nurse doesn't even play tiles, she just guesses where you are and teleports onto you, so the perk doesn't effect her at all.

  • @esarraf said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083999#Comment_4083999

    It's not realistic for survivors to have something to counter everything killers can do just like it's unrealistic for killers to have counters to everything survivors can do. All I'm saying is that if any of your complaints are actually right then killers do have things they can use if heaven forbid the meta changes slightly.

    Now I'm pretty sure you are arguing in bad faith.

    I asked you to name something and you can't. I already explained why scream perks won't help and you didn't refute my points.

    This tells me you rarely if ever play killer since you don't know what you're talking about. You just think there's some nebulous perk killers have that can deal with Cross-Examination because surely killers have something.

    No, they don't, killers have no answer to this perk whatsoever.

    And yes, some things are uncounterable. Survivors can't stop most regression perks and killers can't stop Sprint Bursting away from gens. But regression perks are literally required for most of the killer roster to even have a chance against good survivors, and Sprint Burst just gives you a strong opening to a chase and the rest is up to your skill.

    Cross-Examination is active literally at all times at any loop higher than a chest high wall, killers can't do anything to prevent it, and it gives survivors an insane edge at any mindgame.

    It's so exhausting with this community. The tribalism is insane. I am coming at this as someone who plays both sides. I've seen people defend insanely broken perks in the past like Dead Hard for distance, Boon: Circle of Healing, Made For This… it never ends. Killers do this too but it's so much more common among survivors. And I know why, it's because survivor takes forever to learn compared to the intuitive nature of killer, and it's possible and even common to lose as a survivor in the same match the killer also lost (1k/2k scenarios).

    If you don't play killer which I know you don't based on what you're telling me then you just think killers have it easy, but they really do not especially right now.

  • @100PercentBPMain said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083235#Comment_4083235

    I'm so bored of gen gameplay I love the turrets just to break the solo q monotony. xeno is what I call a "killer designed by survivor mains" its a shame that humans don't like to play as them though so the killers just dead.

    very few killers give basekit help to solo q and xeno goes unappreciated for it

    I don't think a killer designed by survivor mains would have the kind of map traversal or chase power Xeno has.

    Most survivors don't like playing against Xenomorph. Some people like deploying the turrets, but actually looping a good Xeno is really hard.

  • @esarraf said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083940#Comment_4083940

    Or killers could just adapt and use perks to counter it? Screams, breathing, footsteps, and just not loosing them in the first place would be good.

    If you aren't trying to argue in bad faith, I implore you to watch a video discussing this perk and why it's a problem with an open mind to see the problems with it.

    But the short version is that it isn't realistically possible to keep eyes on the survivor at all times in a chase, which is the reason why this perk is a problem. There are a lot of loops in the game which block line of sight and force both sides to guess as to the other's location and what they're going to do. Any jungle gym, shack, most main buildings. These are the situations where the perk becomes a problem.

    Breathing cannot be used to track in these situations. Being able to track survivors by breath is important for killers who literally cannot see the survivors (Spirit and Dracula), and for everyone else it helps you find survivors who are trying to hide right next to you, but it won't help you at jungle gyms.

    Scream perks are all conditional, as in something needs to activate them. Kick a pallet, open a locker, or just wait out a timer and have the survivor look at you, which you have no control over. The only perk which might help is Ultimate Weapon and all it will do is let you know if the survivor left the loop or not.

    What perk do you think will help in this situation, exactly? Keep in mind that Elusive hides your aura and scratch marks.

  • @FerrousFacade said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083940#Comment_4083940

    The last balance updates were a month ago. You think balance changes have come to a halt because its the current topic content creators have been piling into to get views. Were those updates ideal? No, but considering they came along with diminishing returns it seems likely that diminishing returns was the development focus.

    Months? How often in recent history has it actually taken months to make changes based on killer complaints, even over the most mild of topics? Fast track was updated in 9.5 on March 17th and then nerfed in 9.6 on April 28th, just barely over a month and honestly not enough time to get real data about the perk. Fog vials were nerfed a week after release and the same patch that nerfed them re-enabled streetwise (meaning it took less than a week to killswitch) but sure it took FOREVER for them to make those changes. It took them longer to fix Springtrap being invisible coming out of doors and this was the same amount of time it took them to nerf Krasue from her ridiculous release state.

    Did you watch the video? I watched it, there is no context to it that makes the perk seem good. Where are the matches that show JC getting owned by the perk if its such a problem? Why do they never show themselves losing to the perk(s) and instead only show matches they won?

    If the patch goes live as is and it truly makes killers miserable then it will be patched within a couple weeks and given the overreaction we see here and elsewhere I don't expect it will go live as is. Face facts, killer complaints have the developers ears and get fixed all while pushing through shadow nerfs to the survivor side (I am still waiting for a content creator to cover how easy blocking pallet saves has become for killers). Survivor players are simply not allowed even a single bad match or they are labelled as bad or needing to learn. Killers get sympathy.

    First off why would they show footage of them losing to it? That could be dismissed as a skill issue. It's better to show footage of them using it effectively.

    Secondly, it took them months to deal with problematic perks in the past. Sometimes years. Regardless of side. Though objectively speaking, overall, overpowered survivor perks last longer than overpowered killer perks.

    Pain Resonance, the genkick meta, Circle of Healing, Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, Made For This.

    Vigil has been quietly overpowered for ages now.

    I look at this perk and I see Made For This and Vigil. A perk that is incredibly powerful that won't get fixed for a long time if it goes live.

  • @esarraf said:

    Or… we could just buff the bad perks people don't use. Low profile is bad and needs serious help just like most of the other perks listed.

    OP did a bit of a disservice with this screenshot, because it misses the original context and point the video was trying to make.

    BHVR in the past knew that stealth perks which could be used in chase needed to have some kind of activation condition in order for them to be balanced. This does unfortunately mean that the activation condition is too limiting to be usable for most, but the alternative of making one that's too strong is far worse than making just another underpowered perk.

    They probably do still know this, they just misfired on Cross Examination, because… well, quite bluntly, I don't think they're good enough at their own game to know how to play tiles well enough to make use of this perk. Most likely when they play survivor, they behave like most bad survivors I run into, aka they do one loop at a tile, either misplay and get hit or drop the pallet, then leave.

    I'm actually not trying to be mean with that, unlike a lot of people I don't expect the devs to be masters at this extremely unique game with no transferable skills from any other game. But that's why it's critical we give them feedback when they mess up. Which they did here.

    Even more now when their balance cadence has come to a screeching halt and they don't seem willing to make meaningful balance adjustments. If this perk goes live it could make killers insufferable to play for months due to bad survivors not knowing how to use it well and running defense for it (like what's going on in this thread to be blunt). Basically Made For This 2: Electric Boogaloo

  • Balance-wise she's basically fine now. She has an obnoxious synergy with Dissolution that can make her feel really unpleasant to play against akin to Iri Button/Enduring/Spirit Fury Legion, but she's not overpowered. Gameplay and aesthetic wise she has issues that are core to her design and unfixable.

    • She is the killer who is the most badly impacted by altruism in the entire game. Survivors running in to bodyblock for their allies are devastating to her.
    • Having to swap between her two modes is slow and annoying, compounding issue 1.
    • She might be one of the worst tunnelers in the game after her balance adjustments, which is technically not a bad thing for the health of the game, but it does mean she doesn't have that fall-back option to gamble on when she's losing other killers do.
    • Trying to infect survivors feels really weird. Trying to hit them directly is shockingly strict by DBD standards, which makes it much more consistent to ricochet it off the wall and let auto-aim handle it, except that sometimes it just splashes in a direction you didn't expect.
    • Her head attack is one of the strangest feeling attacks in the entire game. It's so slippery. You think it would work like a normal lunge, but it doesn't. Yet it's also not particularly hard to execute once you get a feel for it, reducing the satisfaction of mastering her skill expression akin to someone like Blight or Wesker.
    • Aesthetic wise, I don't think most people want to play as a normal looking woman whose alternate form is a floating head with her organs hanging out.
    • Origin-wise, she is based on an obscure Asian monster which likely a lot of people in the US and EU don't know anything about. Seeing Krasue in DBD might be their first exposure to it. The only reason I knew about it prior to her appearance in this game is because I had just finished running the Asian horror-themed Pathfinder 2nd Edition adventure Season of Ghosts for my weekly TTRPG group which happened to feature one of these as an encounter, though it was called a Penanggalan in that (as far as I can tell, almost the same monster, just slight differences). So she doesn't have a big draw when people could instead choose to play as a bunch of famous horror characters, or pastiches of more recognizable horror tropes and monsters.

    Basically I don't think she needs anything. She is what she is, she's balanced, she has her fans, it's fine for there to be niche killers in a roster this big. I like her, I dust her off every so often to play a few matches, but she's not one of my mains and I think that's fine.

  • I think the Shroud of Separation is also bugged. I rarely use it, but tried it recently in a game I really wanted to win for a pip up, and we all spawned together anyway.

  • @Valuetown said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083259#Comment_4083259

    At almost every tile you can see the survivor during chase. This perk doesn't turn them invisible. They have to step on your footprints to gain elusive.

    This perk can be used to make plays at basically any tile that isn't a chest high wall.

    I actually think the perk's design is interesting and with some extra limitations on it (like how often you can gain the effect) it could make for an interesting perk that skilled survivors can use, but it's too easy to activate at the moment.

    Chasing a survivor using this perk into any tile where the two sides break line of sight can easily cause you to lose track of them. They might even just leave the loop once you no longer have sight of each other and they gain elusive, and you would have no way of knowing.

    Keep in mind that you have the Elusive status effect constantly as long as you're stepping on the killer's trail, not just for 5 seconds and then it goes away. The 5 seconds starts only after you're no longer in the trail.

  • In ages past I would have said Buffy was too strong to be a survivor, but now we've got multiple Belmonts, Alucard, and Geralt as survivors.

    Buffy would be really cool, would love to have it. But at this point the only thing I want is the Predator. I know Predator isn't really a horror franchise, but I want it.

  • Most likely yes.

    Just learn the timing, once you get used to it you can do it every single time.

    Or, if you want anti-tunnel protection which has no skill check, try Off the Record. Or Blood Rush + Sprint Burst, which is a shockingly rare combo but let me tell you, if your only desire is to make a killer stop tunneling you, no killer will want to continue chase with someone who just Sprint Bursted twice in a row.

  • @DEMONANCE said:

    @Zakon05i think you brought up the worst example imo

    cuz Alien chapter was truly stripped of of any original idea and almost any relation to the movies no acid blood no facehuggers nothing that makes xenomorph a xenomorph and we just got nemesis 2.0 Alien has truly been the most disappointing license adaptation in this game and this isn't a rare opinion.

    Your feelings about the adaptation have nothing to do with the killer's popularity. If the killer was fun to play, people would play it anyway.

    And again, I think it is fun. But the overwhelming majority of people hate the flamer turrets to the point they can't derive any enjoyment out of playing the killer. Whenever you hear people talk about why they don't play the xenomorph, the turrets are always the reason why.

    In fact a lot of people think the flamer turrets are so good against Xeno that it may as well be an M1 killer. If you put time into mastering the killer, they're not that much of a threat. But I definitely notice how often other Xeno players get knocked out of crawler mode, because they likely don't main it and don't have the built-up reflexes necessary to deal with them quickly.

    People hate the turrets so much that they just give up on the killer and go play a different one.

    And yet, despite all of that, survivors also don't like Xenomorph because the tail legitimately is one of the best chase powers in the entire game. Due to latency and survivor momentum, it's basically unreactable, even after nerfs to give survivors more time. You have to guess when the Xeno is going to tail whip and be in the process of pre-dodging, as well as hugging terrain which makes it difficult for the Xeno to use its tail at all. It's not like other killers with skill shots where they pull up their axe or whatever to give you a warning to dodge, Xeno can just do it at any time.

    They tried something new: a killer with an extremely powerful chase power that has to deal with survivors having an extra weapon against it. It didn't work for the overwhelming majority of players on both sides.

  • Flashlights are not meta items, they're far weaker than toolboxes and medkits. They're just really… well, flashy.

    Survivors running meta is actually far more boring since it involves interacting with the killer as little as possible. Aka, sprint bursting off of generators, vigil to get more sprint bursts, pre-dropping pallets, splitting on gens and spending every moment not being chased glued to a generator.

    What it sounds like you're running into is legitimate bully squads. Bully squads are frustrating if you don't know how to deal with them, but are actually quite weak if you do, which means they are not meta.

    The PTB tends to have a lot of them since the MMR is loose and the killer is new and nobody knows how to play them yet. Meanwhile they can just DC if they get a good killer or a killer running Lightborn, since their queues will be instant since most of the people on PTB are trying to play Jason and are not playing survivor.

    Aka they are playing for fun, it's just that their idea of fun is clowning on someone worse than them.

  • When they try to do something unique, it sometimes comes out unpopular.

    Like Xenomorph for example. One of the most iconic horror movie characters in history and one of the most requested to come to the game.

    And nobody likes it. Survivors hate playing against it because of how oppressive it is in chase, and killers hate playing it because of the flamer turrets. A killer both sides hate in equal measure.

    (I'm saying this as a p100 Xenomorph by the way, I like how it plays, most people don't)

    I don't blame them for just taking things which worked well in the past and combining them for other long-awaited killers. They can save the more unique designs for more niche licenses.

  • @ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:

    I know absolute 0 about slenderman or the operator and have no idea where to start. Is it a movie thing? Games? A tv show? Novels? Comics?

    Slenderman was one of the first examples of an internet urban legend, famous with millennials and probably older Gen Z. The Unknown is kind of a pastiche of Slenderman and other characters like him, like Jeff the Killer, The Rake, Sonic.exe, and Smile Dog. Although originally created as a work of fiction as part of a photoshop contest on a forum (I believe), the character's eerie vibe caused him to catch on in the mainstream, where people would miss out on the original context and some believed him to be a real cryptid.

    Inspired by Slenderman, a youtube content creator made the Marble Hornets series, obviously inspired by Slenderman but technically a unique property, seen as one of the best online horror series ever made. The character was called The Operator instead, and a lot of aspects associated with Slenderman originated from that series, but although the two characters look similar, they are distinct from one another.

    Marble Hornets further catapulted Slenderman's popularity, along with an indie video game based on him and some of the stuff from Marble Hornets, which youtubers like Markiplier would play and further increase his notoriety.

    Sony would eventually make a movie based on Slenderman, but it was widely hated.

    Why this discussion has come up (Slenderman versus Marble Hornets) in relation to DBD is that the creator of Marble Hornets publicly asked BHVR to contact him, and a staff member of BHVR confirmed that they reached out to him. We don't know what will come of this, just that it happened.

    Slenderman is a widely requested character to come to this game, but I guess some people wouldn't be satisfied with The Operator coming to the game instead. Even though The Operator invented most of the traits people associate with Slenderman, like trying to collect multiple pages before he gets you.

  • I legit think my unpopular opinion might be too unpopular even for an unpopular opinion thread, but I never get to crash out about this, so here goes.

    Trapper is the most unfun killer to play against in the game and I pray he never gets buffed so people don't play him more.

    I cannot see the traps. I just can't. Unless it's Eyrie of Crows where it's broad daylight with no grass anywhere, I CANNOT SEE THEM. Maybe it's because I play on max settings, but I have a really nice PC that I saved up and paid a lot of money for, I'm not lowering my settings to make one killer more tolerable to play against.

    "I'm a basic M1 killer unless you run into the loop I pre-trapped and now you're dead" is garbage gameplay. Putting a survivor in the basement and locking it down with a million traps is garbage gameplay.

    Sorry not sorry, screw Trapper, god I hate him so much. I would rather lose 10 Ghoul games in a row than play one winning match versus Trapper.

  • @Mrpugalug916 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082531#Comment_4082531

    Is it ragequitting or conceding? If I know i have no chance id rather queue up and go next instead of wasting my time. Survivors are allowed to do that. All I want is for killer to get the same opportunity. But go ahead keep huffing your own farts. Your p100s literally mean nothing but bloodpoints youve dumped lol. Even more useless if they're survivor p100s. Also your argument is a fallacy and holds zero weight. Youre trying to argue from authority. I probably have more hours than you but id never try to win an argument with that fact.

    I said 3 killer p100s. I only have 1 survivor p100. Also you're the one who started accusing me of not playing killer and then not playing high MMR.

    I'm not even trying to win an argument, I'm just pointing out that killers do have a concede button and you really shouldn't take the game so seriously.

  • @Mrpugalug916 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082521#Comment_4082521

    Its almost every game that they get to endgame lol. Especially if there are 3-4 still alive. But once again just because one player never sees it because they dont play killer at high mmr, it doesnt happen. Survivors are just wholesome goofballs right? They cant do anything wrong and it's the big meanie killers fault for playing killer

    Okay, which one of us do you think is more likely to be at high MMR? The person with every achievement in the game, three p100 killers, who showed you they have more hours on killer than survivor… or the person angry because they can't ragequit faster?

    But secondly, I can 100% imagine a scenario where the survivors are mean enough to hang around the exit gate not opening it to make you watch them t-bag. I have been told to self-harm by survivors who beat me before.

    However, unless you are actively seeing them all gathered up at the same gate, what I think is most likely happening in the majority of cases is that they're split at opposite gates unsure of where their allies are and waiting for a terror radius to finish opening the gate and start the EGC, and you are assigning malice to what is likely concern for their allies and not wanting to leave before they know people are safe unless they get pushed out.

    Instead of me needing to play more killer, I think you need to play more survivor so you can understand reasons why survivors might not want to open the gate beyond wanting to make you upset.

  • @Mrpugalug916 said:

    Yeah okay I can open the exit gate true but that still wont let me abandon and keep my bloodloints. I wamt out of the match and be able to queue up for the next one ASAP. Not wait out the entire EGC lol. Play killer more bud

    If you're tilted enough to want to quit that bad then you should take those 2 minutes to take a break instead of rage queueing.

  • @Mrpugalug916 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082504#Comment_4082504

    Yeah and wait out the end game collapse? Lol do you even play killer bro? Or are you just yapping because you heat a killer main opinion on your survivor main forum?

    image.png
  • Okay… baring in mind that I have never personally been in a situation where the survivors are intentionally not opening the gate for no other reason than to taunt me.

    There are two gates, open the other one if you can't bare to look at them.

    But really I just think you need to take a break, you're assigning way too much malice to the opposite side's actions.

  • You can open the gate yourself once the 5th gen is done.

  • This is probably my most unpopular opinion when it comes to this game, but I'm not entirely sure the DBD community wants what it's asking for when they're talking about this.

    Since the MMR is invisible and thus not a way to gauge your personal skill level or show off to others, what you're really asking for is for having harder survivor opponents as killer because you had an 8-hook, 0-kill game. Or a harder killer opponent as survivor because you just got tunneled for 5 gens.

  • @UnicornMedal said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082086#Comment_4082086

    So I'm trolling because I don't agree with you? 😵 It's an odd way to say that I'm biased without admitting your own biases but alright.

    Because your opinion is unreasonable and doesn't make any sense and seems like it's meant to derail serious discussion. You were arguing for specifically For the People + Buckle Up as an anti-slug combo. FTP + BU was not an anti-slug combo. You didn't need FTP if you were using Buckle Up for anti-slug. When you paired them together, it let you pick up a survivor in the middle of a killer's weapon flourish animation and you both got away. That's not slugging.

    We're Gonna Live Forever does everything Buckle Up did for anti-slug and it's even better at it since it increases your healing speed, and you can combine it with Made For This to gain the other half of what Buckle Up did, which is protection for the person doing the healing. And it's the same number of perks as FTP + BU.

    So either you don't know this or you're not being serious.

  • We might not get the Jason X movie skin specifically

    But we might get their own interpretation of a sci-fi Jason skin.

    Kind of like how the undead skin he currently has is a clear nod to how he looked in Part VI, VII, and VIII.

  • Honestly, they fixed my main problem with him (the ability to hit you after pallet vaulting).

    I actually think he's pretty fun to face now. I don't go, "Oh boy, Ghoul!" when I hear his terror radius, but I've been surprised at how much fun my Ghoul matches have been lately.

  • @UnicornMedal said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082059#Comment_4082059

    So because you disagree with me on one point, nothing else I said applies? Even if you insist on taking that one thing out, DS was still nerfed from its pre-6.1.0 state where it was universally agreed to be the anti-tunnel perk. There are still several elements balanced in Killer's favor so that they can at least secure a tie in most circumstances.

    To reiterate, to brush all of that under the rug and equate it to one unfun update to pallets is disingenuous at best. In reality, I feel like the complaints center around Killers not having fun versus not being balanced. Trust me, Survivors know the feeling. 😵

    I'm trying to be respectful, but it was very much a "stopped reading" moment for me, because anyone who argues in favor of FTP+BU is either trolling or so survivor-biased that their opinion doesn't mean anything.

    Both the anti-slug and anti-camp systems were egregiously overpowered and hated by the overwhelming majority of the community.

    DS is working fine and is debatably the strongest perk survivors have - and that is not a condemnation of other survivor perks.

    The DC penalties targeted survivors because there was and kind of still is a survivor ragequitting epidemic. And not because of any balancing reasons, because the community has normalized the idea that it's okay to quit if you don't like the match you're in for any reason.

    So the only thing left is like… I guess survivor stealth being nerfed, but even other survivors wanted that because people would abuse stealth perks to rat and avoid ever taking chase at the expense of the rest of their team.

  • @UnicornMedal said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081413#Comment_4081413

    This would carry more weight if we didn't have so much in place intentionally to help Killer at the expense of Survivor. The kill rates have enforced that Killer outperforms Survivor for years now, endgame has favored Killer for just as long, systems like anti-slug were dropped in favor of finisher moris, stealth on Survivor was gutted while aura on Killer was retained, perks like Decisive Strike and Buckle Up + For The People that were designed to counter camping/tunneling/slugging have been gutted, last year excessive DC penalties that target Survivor more strongly than Killer were pushed through (even as it actively banned players from matchmaking for playing normally) while the proposed anti-tunnel/anti-camp features were scrapped before the PTB was even finished, rinse and repeat.

    I'm not going to say that pallet density is a great update because I don't think it is. It's more of a band-aid in my opinion. But to flip the tables on that is disingenuous at best.

    I don't really know what to say to someone who is legitimately arguing that buckle up + FTP was ok.

    You understand that combo was completely uncountable in many circumstances, right? Like it's not like regular saves where you can try to chase the survivors off.

    DS hasn't really been gutted, either.

  • Usually 1-2.

    I find that running more than 2 creates a "win-more" scenario. Since most slowdown perks activate on hooks/downs, if you're getting those then you can capitalize on that to create pressure survivors will have trouble overcoming.

    But if you're struggling to get downs, your perks do nothing.

    I'd rather have perks to help me actually catch good survivors than perks to stomp medicore to average survivors harder.

  • @QwQw said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081968#Comment_4081968

    • Pallet density update
    • 70 second hook timers
    • 15 second off-hook endurance/haste
    • Baffling amount of overtuned perks new and old alike

    "Thing is it's gradually getting more surv sided with each patch."

    Yeah, it's not hard to see why 😅

    Oh crap I didn't even know they increased the duration of that to 15 seconds. That explains why it feels like it's impossible to catch an unhooked survivor before they make it to a gate.

    That's just unnecessary. Adding the endurance status effect to being unhooked was a good change back in the day, since BT was basically a mandatory perk before then. There was nothing wrong with the 10 seconds, 15 seconds is excessive.

  • To elaborate on what others have said, apparently they negotiate license deals such that it's more difficult for this kind of thing to happen now.

    So, if true, older killers are more at risk of leaving than newer ones.

    In other words, it's more likely that we lose someone like Pig than someone like Springtrap.

    However, the game currently has key art which features several licensed killers. It's believed that the killers who appear on that key art are the ones whose IP holders BHVR has a stronger relation with.

    Springtrap is featured in the key art and Scott Cawthon has spoken positively of his experiences in working with them.

    So he'll probably be around until the game starts to die out, whenever that may be.

  • @Aven_Fallen said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081413#Comment_4081413

    You can show me where I complain that I dont escape too often. I know that I am neither the best Survivor nor the best Killer. But still I struggle way less than those who call themselves Killer Mains.

    Well it depends on what killer you main, too.

    There are some killers who will struggle more with pallets than others. That's kind of the trouble with discussing balance in this game.

    And it's not even a high versus low tier thing, in my opinion. Though low tiers tend to have more trouble with pallets than high tiers. Good killers like Wesker and Ghoul will struggle on pallet dense maps, but someone more mid like Nemesis doesn't care that much as long as he gets out of tier 1 fast enough.

  • @Aven_Fallen said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081384#Comment_4081384

    Thank you for the most valuable sentence here:

    Hell I felt it IMMEDIATELY on my first game back from an extensive break away from the game.

    This is what is wrong with DBD-players. EVERYTHING is at fault for them performing not as good, except themselves. It is impossible that you might just be rusty if you had an extensive break from the game. No, it must be the game itself which is an issue, otherwise you would have 4Ked easily.

    And this thread just shows it once again. We even have a Killer who is winning here, yet a 20 second clip is the big gospel.

    This is not a stone I would cast, considering how easily it can be turned back on you.

    Why is it the killers who are wrong and not you for thinking it's just the game's fault you don't escape more often?

  • @CookieMaster said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081227#Comment_4081227

    BHVR is balancing the game around stats they gather. They do not look at tournament or high skilled SWF play. If they would balance around SWFs, 80% of the survivors would stop to play the game.

    It is not a BHVR problem, it is an entilted community problem.

    The balance is as it is because killers are tunneling more and more. I have played 10 matches lastly and 8 out of 10 was against a killer tunneling at 5 gens.

    I'm a high MMR killer, i mostly play around 3 gening/zoning and i get 8 to 10 hooks on average in pub. Against good SWFs it is extremely hard but i mostly get a ton of hooks WITHOUT tunneling.

    If BHVR decreases the pallet density, rebalance the maps/perks to buff killers (balancing around SWFs), killers would still tunnel as hard as they do today.

    Why ? Because players are now relying on cheap game design exploit to win. The meritocracy is dead in the current generation of players, they want instant wins without even learning to play so they will proxy-camp and tunnel unless BHVR decides that's a bannable offense.

    Camping and tunneling is as cheap as camping a corner in an FPS game, totally ridiculous, uninteresting and unskiller but hey they are high MMR even though they do not play the game at all :)

    I have a few comments about this.

    Yes, it's true that the game should not be balanced around how nice killers are feeling. This is always a problem I've had with killer discourse in this game. So many people want them to reduce survivor strength so that they "do not have to tunnel" - which implies that they don't want tunneling to be adjusted in any way, they just want the game to be easier for them, and ignores how much stronger they make killers who don't care about not tunneling at all.

    HOWEVER. The players should never be blamed for simply playing the game the way it was designed. Especially a PvP game like DBD. Both sides want to win and tunneling is a mechanic that's in the game which is legal, effective, and intuitive. The fact there's this weird code of honor the playerbase is expected to follow is really silly.

    At the moment, though, the reverse of what I said in that first paragraph is true. If you've ever tried to tunnel a good survivor before, you'll know that once they realize that you're tunneling them, they start taking way less risks and become far less concerned with conserving map resources. They'll start pre-dropping to make catching them as hard as possible and discourage you from chasing them any further.

    Ironically, this behavior used to be correctly demonized if survivors did it while not being tunneled, because selfishly throwing every pallet to preserve yourself regardless of circumstances was a bad play. But now survivors don't need to care about that anymore. That skill expression on survivor, of making risk/reward plays of greeding pallets to preserve them, which objectively made the game more interesting and fun and deep, is being de-emphasized by the number of pallets. Now survivors can genuinely just throw pallets without having to care that much and it's the correct play as long as their team is doing gens.

  • @Rickprado said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/467522/sure-pallet-density-was-reverted-and-its-ok-now

    Hot take but: pallet density was THE WORST THING HAPPENED IN THIS GAME IN YEARS. It changed so many realms for worse that i really wonder what thoughts BHVR had to release that update.

    Really, why did BHVR decided to just throw all the balance away of many maps that were okay? Now we are in a situation were there are too many pallets connected to loops that if you are not playing a strong anti-loop killer you will probably will have a very hard time.

    Probably Jason will be strong as hell to be a viable killer in such weird balance state of the game.

    I agree completely. I said this in another thread, but I began play when they added Circle of Healing, and this is the most difficult killer has ever felt to me.

    According to the stats site, I've played over 6700 matches of killer, and 6500 matches of survivor, so I don't consider myself very biased towards either role. In fact historically I've been more sympathetic to survivor pain than killer pain, just because I am a solo queue player and I know how rough it can be out there.

    But for the first time ever I actually think killer is more painful to play than solo queue survivor.

  • Really? 2 minutes? Killer is pretty hard right now, yes, but last I checked the world record for fastest escape was 2 minutes and 26 seconds.

    If survivors are consistently beating the world record escape time against you, that may be an issue on your end.

    At the same time though you said you 4k 6/10 matches? That means you achieve total victory in the majority of games. Unless the other 4/10 matches are 0ks, that's not a bad win rate.

  • Very likely to just be Jason, since they signed with Jason Universe. Also the reveal trailer stated "New Killer" with nothing else.

  • I really enjoyed the atmosphere, the buildup, everything about the stream itself was fun.

    However I think that the way they messed up was by announcing it like it was going to be a reveal stream. Which it was, you just needed to stay awake from the awkward hours of 9 PM EST to 10 AM EST, which I don't think there's a single timezone which could actually enjoy it.

    It took until 3 in the morning for the first major change to happen. Which I happened to be awake for and it was great.

  • @HoodedWildKard said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080946#Comment_4080946

    Honestly seems crazy that people are applying that kind of logic. "Oh i won't do my main objective because some survivors might have perks that activate based on hooks" Going for a 4 man slug is always a braindead play unless survivors are equally braindead or you can insta down very quickly like bubba. To make it work really requires pretty intense consistent misplays from the survivors, doing stuff like swarming a hook or downed player.

    You don't have control of the match unless you down 3 players and have the last one in chase, heck even then it is possible to finish another player's recovery midchase and have one of you get away to res the others.

    As for resurgence, just because one streamer complains about something, even a high profile one like otz, doesn't mean it's broken or that community has an issue with it. The forum is a pretty good indicator of what the community at wide has issues with. You are literally the first person on here I've ever seen complain about it, and i have been here a while. I also play plenty of killer, and resurgence is a perk that's never given me trouble. It's damn good for sure, but not game breaking, good killers can play around quick heals. Then you have perk counters leverage, SH:Weeping wounds, coulraphobia, sloppy butcher. There are a plethora of anti healing perks that nix resurgence very effectively. As well as tunneling off hook.

    And yh that slippery meat build is mad, does take up half the perk slots and every offering slot though as well as requiring a 4 man swf.

    End of the day probably just going to have to agree to disagree, but hey if I keep winning survivor games on the back of killers trying to slug out I'm not complaining. I certainly don't bother doing it when I'm killer unless I'm in a situation where it's the only optimal play like i decribed before. And my killers games go perfectly fine more often than not.

    I don't… believe you, sorry.

    You either don't play killer that much or you're newer to the role, there's no other explanation.

    Resurgence is a broken perk, one of the most overpowered perks in the game. If you don't think so, you lack the game sense to understand.

    Not only does it synergize with the anti-camp feature, as killers don't typically want to hover around the hook very much, giving the survivors space to consistently make use of it.

    It also robs the killer of a ton of pressure. The survivor needing to take time to find healing is supposed to be slowdown for you. Or a risk/reward of staying injured in exchange for better gen efficiency. But the survivors simply don't need to make the choice, they can heal 4 seconds after being unhooked and be ready to take two hits after. Even if the survivor uses those hits in the most inefficient way possible, just holding W and not looping anything, it takes a large amount of time to re-down them after you find them again.

    No, Gift of Pain/Weeping Wounds does not help. I've tried it. It only slows down the heal a little, you need to be proxy camping to actually interrupt the heal. It's also a scourge hook, meaning it's RNG as to if you can even consistently make use of it or not, where Resurgence is available after every single unhook.

    You don't hear people complain about it often because, quite bluntly, most of the people on the forums and reddit are bad and only complain about the most obvious things like Sprint Burst and Dead Hard. Resurgence is like Vigil, it's silent in the way it breaks the game, you don't really notice it unless you have a firm grasp of the game's macro.

  • @HoodedWildKard said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080792#Comment_4080792

    This is such a weird swing.

    First off to come after resurgence as a perk is super odd, I've literally never heard anyone complain about it before. It doesn't progress the game for survivors, all it does is mitigates the reset time from being hooked. It is a very good perk but it's hardly game breaking. An altruistic heal takes 16 seconds. With resurgence that is halved, so lets be generous if you count the time it saves both survivors for half a heal it gains the survivor team 16 seconds of total. So much value? Hardly gamebreaking, and I don't see it used all that much. Rarely see it in my killer games and I have maybe 1 swf team mate who runs it semi regularly. And it has counterplay, haemorrhage messes with it if survivors don't try to heal right on the hook. (scourge hook weeping wounds anyone?) And ironically tunneling is also a hard counter to it, healing progress doesn't do anything for you if you wind up straight in chase.

    As for the rest of it. The whole objective of the game is at it's core based around 2 things. Getting generators done, and hooking. Survs need chase perks to avoid hooks, information perks to help tactical play, gen perks for achieving their main objective and hook/struggle related perks to mitigate the damage done by being hooked.

    For killers to explicitly not hook to avoid giving survivors an "advantage" from hook related perks is like wrecking your car so you don't have to pay for fuel. They are deliberately avoiding their actual objective to try and deny value from perks that for the most part either aren't used much, or can be nullified by not tunneling someone straight off hook. These perks need to be in the game, you can't not give survivors perks to help them recover from or avoid being hooked.

    Things like off hook endurance and anticamp are necessary because otherwise the game becomes a tunnel fest. Slugging as a response to these is a bad idea for 2 reasons.

    1. Going for a 4 man slug will usually backfire unless the survivorsare absolute mugs. I played against 2 killers who tried to do this yesterday, and both times we got gens done and 3 players out. With 2 players slugged it's so easy for them to crawl apart, recover and get insta revived by the 4th player while killer chases the third. Plus you have unbreakable, which more and more people are running now.

    2. Even if it does succeed, it devalues the win. If you get a 4 man slug you get less bp for hook actions and short games will not give much bp, not to mention it's super boring for both sides.

    P.s. slippery meat? really? I mean if you need to quote luck builds to point to why killers are slugging that's crazy. Anyone dumb enough to run luck builds deserves the extra 4 hook states they hand the killer.

    Okay three things.

    One, the point again was that the benefit of the slugging-only playstyle is that it bypasses every single hook-related perk survivors have, not that any single hook perk is a problem on its own. Like if you hook a survivor, you have to deal with them having off-hook endurance at minimum and you can't be too close to them without them getting anti-camp, which they simply don't get when slugged. And it works. I don't think it's as good as many advocates say because it's very all-or-nothing and it gets hard countered by anti-slug perks, but it is a valid strategy to win.

    Two, if you haven't heard complaints about Resurgence, you haven't been paying attention. Otzdarva just listed it in his recent survivor tier list as a 5-star perk, one of the best survivors have, and in fact placed it as the 2nd best survivor perk overall. I played a game last night where I hooked someone and walked away slightly, and they were off the hook and healed before I could even turn around and make it back. If you don't understand what a gut punch that is to killer pressure, you don't play enough killer.

    And third, yes slippery meat. Yes, it's an extremely rare build to go against, but I have gone against it and it is absurdly strong. To bring up otzdarva again, he showcased it here:

    https://youtu.be/sgUW2SqpsC4?si=V4T5XrSiwnWmK858&t=1478
  • @HoodedWildKard said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080647#Comment_4080647

    This is such a weird argument I keep seeing. Like what perks actually help that much after being unhooked? Only ones i Can think of are anti tunnel perks like DS and BT. sure dead hard is a thing but that one actually rewards tunneling and can also be countered by exhaustion infliction or just baiting it. Survs have anti tunnel perks so killers are slugging in response? It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Endurance doesn't really matter if you are really tunneling hard just insta hit off of hooka nd you only need one more hit for the down.

    Now that fast track is changed saying the game is punishing the killer for getting hooks isn't really valid. And slugging is a super bad idea, it usually backfires unless the survivors are braindead.

    Before I post this know that what I am posting is meant to be a nuanced explanation, not a condemnation of any of the perks I'm listing. In fact I think most of these perks are balanced or even healthy in a vacuum, except for one which I will get into.

    Perks which survivors benefit from when being unhooked: Resurgence, Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, Off the Record, Blood Rush

    Perks which reward survivors for unhooking their allies: Deliverance, We'll Make It, Babysitter, Borrowed Time

    Perks which benefit the survivors from being hooked: Kindred (the aura reading on the killer), Fast Track

    Perks which remove killer pressure from the killer related to hooked survivors: Reassurance, Shoulder the Burden, Camaraderie, Slippery Meat (with a luck build)

    Base-kit mechanics which the survivors benefit from related to hooks: Endurance, Anti-camp

    Perks and mechanics which make it difficult to hook in the first place: Boil Over, Breakout, Flip Flop, Power Struggle, Saboteur, flashlights, pallet stuns, other forms of stuns (Head On, Last Stand)

    I know the instinct is to go into why these perks aren't bad. Like "are you really complaining about Kindred" or "Who the hell runs Camaraderie?"

    But that's not the point, the point is that if you go for an all-slug playstyle, you deny value from all of these things simultaneously. Meanwhile the perks which counter slugging are few and rarely run. Unbreakable, We're Gonna Live Forever, Boon: Exponential, and that's really about it. And there's things you can do to make it even harder to pick up slugs, like Coulrophobia.

    In my honest opinion though, you could cut down on a lot of the slugging playstyle by nerfing the one perk which I think is the most problematic here: RESURGENCE.

    That perk gives SO MUCH VALUE to the survivor for being unhooked.

  • I don't normally voice such displeasure with the developers, but this was such a poorly executed idea.

    They needed to be CRYSTAL clear this was NOT going to be a reveal stream or anniversary stream.

    Also I swear if this stream ends after 13 hours… all of the 13-related stuff was fun but at this point it's like, "okay we get it, it's Jason"

    And if it's NOT Jason then that's even worse, because nobody else justifies all of the 13s. God forbid it's an original killer.

  • I played a bit as "The Shack" as Wraith with the addon that makes his terror radius play while stealthed and then just stood in shack.

    Playtesting the new killer.

  • They should have been more clear that this wasn't going to be a reveal stream or anniversary stream. That's my only problem with it.

    People likely stayed up late/woke up early/cleared their schedules for this. I definitely planned my day around it.

    Actually I know Otzdarva did at least, poor guy stayed up until 4:00 his time.

  • I'm pretty sure at this point that this isn't a reveal or anniversary stream, it's just another teaser.

  • This was ill advised, it was cute at first but over 30 minutes is excessive.

  • @HoodedWildKard said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080469#Comment_4080469

    Is there currently an underlying reason for slugging? A lot of people were quoting fast track but that's been changed now.

    As killer literally the only times I'll slug are if: i know my victim will struggle put thanks to a sabo play so I drop them to gain a little pressure instead, with 2 left if I'm sweating the 4k (I only ever do this for adepts, achievements or challenges) or if I down someone who's on death hook and I'm intending to spare them.

    There isn't really any overriding reason that I can think of for slugging as a standard tactic unless you're playing twins. It's not particularly fun and it often backfires. Had a deathslinger who was trying for the 4 man slug on gideons yesterday. He ended up losing so many potential hooks to us reviving his slugs we ended up getting 3 out.

    Even without Fast Track, survivors have a lot of strong perks that activate from being unhooked or unhooking someone else. There's also the anti-camp feature and off-hook endurance effect. I mean there is a reason why survivors hate being slugged, it's because it's harder to recover from being slugged than being hooked. It's not like being on the floor is inherently any more boring than hanging from a hook, you can't play the game either way.

    That being said, I don't think slugging (as in all slug, no hook) is as strong as the advocates for the playstyle claim that it is. It's very all-or-nothing, you either clean sweep or you lose hard. And it gets countered much harder by anti-slug perks and good survivor macro play. It's just really hard for uncoordinated teams to deal with.

  • @Aphy said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/466009/figuring-out-why-doc-is-weak

    4. Pre dropping pallets and Pre running shouldn't ever be done. Pallets are for chases and Loopers. Why is anyone pre running? I'm not talking about omg killer is about to hit me I need to run I'm mean actual pre runners running from miles away. There's no looping, pallet dropping, flash lights, flash grenade's etc involved in pre running. It's literally nothing at all in the game. Involves zero skill or activity. It's a complete waste of time.

    It's also really really effective when the entire team does it.

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