Zakon05
Zakon05
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I feel like it's a bit of both, really. EMPs are too strong and Overclock, while good, could use some minor QOL changes to make it feel more worthwhile to use your power. But I could easily be wrong, so I'd rather BHVR take it slow and simply nerf EMPs to start with (they can no longer fully self print), then follow it up by buffing Overclock if it isn't enough.
Well the reason I say I think EMPs aren't the issue is because it's not terribly difficult to re-apply Slipstream if it's been cleansed on a survivor you're actively chasing. I've even in some situations been able to re-apply a Slipstream on the same second in which it gets cleansed since I see their ally running in with an EMP, so I'm already preparing to re-apply it. And I tag that ally, too, if I can.
The only reason i would want an EMP nerf is if it would make it harder for survivors to keep themselves cleansed of Slipstream while not in chase. But I think this would be extraordinarily difficult to balance this.
Survivors not being able to cleanse Slipstream easily would make Overclock stronger because it lasts longer for every survivor Slipstreamed (a lot of people don't know this for some reason, so I'm just mentioning it here in case). This would technically solve the issue since it would now last long enough to pressure loops. In situations where the survivors don't cleanse as much as they should, I am definitely able to pressure loops without the Soma Family Photo.
But consider how big most maps are and how difficult it can be to keep tabs on all the survivors. Even with an EMP nerf, I don't think it would be realistic to keep Slipstream active on enough survivors to make Overclock strong.
It would, however, make him much better at 3genning. You could play like a Trapper or Hag and pick a 3gen and then set up a web of biopods all around it and then just get ready to defend it instead of focusing on chases and downs to build pressure. I don't want that, I don't think anyone wants that.
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I think survivor perk diversity is more important than killer perk diversity. Killers can always play a different killer if they want to spice up their gameplay, every killer is a unique experience.
Survivors are all skins of the same base chassis, the only thing they have to make things interesting is perks.
It's a shame that MFT is still so ubiquitous after how exciting and fun Nick Cage's perks were. But then again I do understand it. It's the same reason why Dead Hard was always so popular. No killer can deny it.
Dramaturgy is super fun but not only inconsistent in how much value it gives you, you may not always have it. Load in vs Plague and now it's a dead perk slot. MFT is never a dead perk slot.
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@BowlofTofu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553805#Comment_3553805
Skill issue?
When majority of the players are running Made for This, Hope, Overzealous, Prove thyself, and god knows how many other perks that give them a superior advantage over my little jolt?
I ould run pop, regress it by a bit but as soon as I leave thirty seconds later the gen is finished anyway.
Overzealous is not a good perk. Jolt is a significantly better killer perk than Overzealous is a survivor perk. I'm sympathetic to your frustrations and MFT is definitely something to be annoyed with, but Overzealous is not an issue in any way.
On top of that, Pop and Pain Res are both significantly better regression perks than Jolt. Jolt is not a bad perk, but it's only something I'd slot in on killers who down purely with M1s, and even then I think Sloppy Butcher gives more slowdown on average than Jolt except on compact maps.
Jolt is easy for survivors to play around. If they're in chase with you, they'll run as far away from the gens as they can, and if they're about to go down they'll get in a locker.
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My games of late have indeed been more difficult, but not unwinnable. I do need to play more ruthlessly than I used to, though.
My preferred way to play killer is to try to play for 8 hooks before 1 kill. I do my best to do that, still, but most games I've only got around 3 or so hooks by the time I'm at 2 gens left, and when that happens I need to even the playing field somehow.
MFT has definitely had an impact on how hard it is to catch people. But the thing that bothers me the most about it is that it stacks with Hope. Because I try not to tunnel anybody out too quickly, it's not uncommon for the gens to get done even before how difficult it's become to win as of late. Previously that wasn't a big deal, I would usually incorporate No Way Out into my builds, since it naturally synergizes with my preferred playstyle as killer. But now with MFT + Hope, I simply cannot afford to let the gens get done, because anybody who brings that combo will be basically uncatchable unless I have a ranged attack.
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I just want them to remove depipping across the board. I was just coming here to make a thread about it because I lost a pip due to my ally using Plot Twist right after being unhooked, which counted as an unsafe unhook, which meant my altruism medal was removed and I depipped.
The only way survivor is remotely fun to play at all is if you don't care about pipping. Trying to pip past gold is an exercise in incredible frustration as you depip from things outside of your control.
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Ran into the same issue. No progress across 3 separate games. Even tried to force the issue by playing basement bubba, and despite getting a 4k in the basement, 0 progress.
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He requires Hillbilly-level effort for...
Uh. Well.
Hillbilly-level results.
He's Hillbilly.
Except Hillbilly is obviously a chase killer, Singularity is a chase killer masquerading as an area control killer, so he has the added bonus of a lot of people playing him wrong.
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I'm playing non-Alien killers to give survivors a break from the nonstop Aliens. I've barely played against anybody else.
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@tuttoinunavolta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495638#Comment_3495638
I kinda agree. I think it's just a matter of time before the community understands the right counter and makes her way less threatening than she seems now. Any preemptive nerf could potentially kill the character in the long run and I really hope they give it a few more weeks before changing anything about her.
It's just that she went from "the killer with an interactive power you should just completely ignore" (I don't fully agree with that but it definitely was the most popular opinion) to "interact with her power often or you throw the game", which is no different than Pig or Pinhead or Singularity. The majority of a game community is probably not so invested to the point of browsing forums and reading update posts, so many suddenly just found themselves dying to the one killer's power they learnt to totally ignore.
Sadako feels kinda Plague-ish in the sense that the way to counter her is to choose between the lesser evil (holding onto tapes from the start and putting them away in specific situations/never cleansing the vomit unless in specific situations VS not using tapes and getting condemned easily/cleansing often and giving Plague a better power). And just like with Plague new players will inevitably screw up until they read up on her power.
It is very possible to counter Sadako and it'll seem much easier and less of a hassle in a couple of weeks. It's just that, right now, it's like a kinda complicated Plague-like new killer released, but it has the slot and skin of a preexisting character that the survivors mostly just ignored for a year. And the PTB for this "new" killer was so different it's like it wasn't there.
The beginning is bound to feel really really rough but I have the feeling things are going to feel more balanced and less worrying in a matter of 1-2 weeks. Fingers crossed any eventual change to her won't gut her
I also don't want any knee-jerk nerfs, however I do think that it's not quite so simple as people who are saying to just take the tapes are implying.
Yes, as of right now, taking the tapes is seemingly like the correct counterplay, because it keeps her from passively condemning you. But it doesn't totally shut her down.
Once she's found you and hit you, now you're in trouble. You have to find another tape and fast. You can only get them from TVs which are currently on, meaning you have to run around until you find one.
So then you find one, but if the Sadako is paying attention or using the Mother's Comb, she'll know you just grabbed another tape and where you are. And now she's going to try to stop you from putting that tape away.
It doesn't take many mistakes to quickly snowball your condemned and allow her to mori you. Even if she focuses on doing this to just 1 survivor at a time, if she knocks one out by 2-3 gens left, it's going to be a hard time for the others to come back.
It's true that she doesn't have a chase power, but you have so fewer allowances for mistakes against her than other killers because she straight up ignores hook states, and while her stealth isn't amazing, she is still hard to keep track of, which makes her very good at hit-and-run.
As Otz pointed out in the video he made today on her, the counterplay for survivors is actually quite complicated compared to the level of effort the Sadako has to put in to do all of this. I'm saying this as someone who has Sadako at prestige 24.
By far the most problematic thing though is how a lot of Sadakos simply don't care about hook stages and just slugs people. If she never hooks anyone, survivors get very little in the way of blood points and progress towards medals for pips, which makes her particularly aggravating to play against even compared to other strong killers. They really need to do something to keep her from just constantly slugging everyone.
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The guy who made this comic has since admitted he was wrong lol
Like don't get me wrong, he's describing the correct counterplay. Where he's wrong is that if you do this, she suddenly becomes trash tier. All you've done by doing this is ensure you don't get rolled, and your whole team has to do it.
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I think people are overstating how weak she is against teams that pick up tapes. As creators like Hens and Otz have shown us, she can still hold her own against high level teams that do that. Yes she did lose many games against extremely coordinated teams, but these teams are regularly up against the strongest killers in the game like Spirit, Nurse, and Blight and are able to win against them consistently, too.
And then if you don't pick up tapes, she annihilates your team.
And something needs to be done to stop her from slugging people all the time and actually respect hooks.
As it stands, despite the fact my Sadako is prestige 24 and is also a legacy prestige, I will not be playing her until something is done about her. Playing against her on survivor side is an abysmal experience that I do not wish to inflict on anybody. She's headed for a Skull Merchant scenario where survivors are going to start DCing the moment they realize it's her. Why not? What's the point in playing if you're going to get <10k BP, never actually get to enjoy a chase since she never commits to one until you're about to die, and then depip?
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I like the new portraits a lot. Especially Freddy, it's super fun that they recreated a classic Freddy pose with it.
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Okay I found there was a lot of misinformation going on about that change.
The thing they were adding was to make it so killers who *previously* did not look down would look down.
Most killers look down after a hit, including the one you're using for your avatar, Nemesis. Go try loading up a match right now and hitting a survivor and letting go of your mouse as Nemesis. That gentle little head bob he does is what was being added to the killers who previously didn't do that.
Killers weren't all suddenly getting Nurse exhaustion or something.
I'm okay with them removing it, too, but that whole situation was being wildly overblown by basically everyone besides the people who got motion sickness from it, and so they had to play the small handful of killers who didn't have a head bob after a hit.
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I think this statement can be applied to every single killer.
Ugh. Come on, you know what I meant with that.
The way you beat instamori myers is by genrushing him as hard as possible. Yes you also do that against other killers, but you're also doing other things like rescuing/healing allies and when the killer comes for you, you need to loop them. The killer can also regress generators, there's flashlight saves and hook sabos you can go for, etc.
With myers it's like "Okay slam the gens before he hits T3 or we all die. Crap he's in T3, okay keep slamming the gens and whoever he chases dies."
whose to say what is and what is not intended.
Because it took people a very long time to figure out the condemned playstyle and the #1 priority BHVR seems to have in these changes is to ensure she can't do that anymore. Very safe to assume they never intended her to play like that.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491936#Comment_3491936
that is just means you dislike killers with mori-based play-styles. Myer's is based off movies and Sadako is also based off movies. their play-style in winning is mori-based. they both feature very unique gameplay from survivor. they play the game in such a different way that it feels like brand new game when playing against them. The gameplay being so alien means that you have adjust how you survive as survivor to escape against them. It is unlikely for their unique gameplay loops to be removed.
"I" don't like it, yes, but that's not an uncommon sentiment. Condemned Sadako on live right now is easily one of the most reviled killer playstyles to go against. I think the only one that's hated more is 3gen Skull Merchant. They are literally trying to remove it from her right now, most likely due to overwhelming feedback that it sucks to play against.
Mori Myers is just a test of how fast the survivors can do gens. BHVR may not see it as being problematic because it doesn't make the game take forever like condemned Sadako does and it requires rare addons, but that doesn't make it fun to play against.
The difference between Myers and Sadako is that Myers was 100% intended, but Sadako was most likely not intended to play that way. Do you really think that the way BHVR wanted people to play Sadako was for her to slug and generally avoid hooking people?
They clearly don't because they nerfed the Ring Drawing, nerfed how fast she can build condemned on a single survivor, and then when a way was found to continue the slugging playstyle on PTB, they removed that as well.
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@frozzenk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491955#Comment_3491955
So you're saying that grabbing *should* be worse than a hit that was already guaranteed anyway for Sadako because by grabbing you avoid a potential flashlight save? That's better than the other guy at least. He was refusing to read at all.
Do you honestly feel like Sadako of all killers needed to have something specific to weaken her kit (however slightly) just because locker grabbing can avoid a flashlight save? Avoiding a flashlight save by grabbing from locker is true for all killers, is it not? But Sadako specifically needed that?
I'm saying that getting grabbed should build condemned and destroy the tape as if you had been hit, assuming it doesn't already work like that. And also that her chase and/or ambush potential should be buffed more.
There is actually a chance that it already does. I think the thing on the notes about how being hooked destroys the tape is meant for situations in which the survivor enters the dying state on their own. For example, if they were in Deep Wounds and didn't mend, or if they used the new Plot Twist perk.
If it doesn't work like that, then at least you still get to hook them with almost no chance of someone getting a flashie save.
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@frozzenk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491931#Comment_3491931
Lord almighty, the effort to fanboy is strong. You were already going to hit them regardless. You were already going to wound them regardless. They enter a locker to avoid the hit and force Sadako to grab them, knowing that it's worse for her.
You don't like the punished word and will use that to avoid actually building an argument? Fine. I'm still waiting for an argument that defends grabbing being worse for Sadako. Can you defend that?
Getting to hook them basically for free is pretty nice. Remember you can't flashlight save on locker grabs anymore, aside from that trickery with slow exiting the locker. If they get in a locker, you don't build condemned (maybe... unless the PTB is up right now, you're really just guessing that grabbing people doesn't count as a hit for the purposes of building condemned - it's a good guess but it's still a guess), but you're definitely going to get the hook now.
Look, you're really just going to have to accept that BHVR doesn't want condemned to be Sadako's main method of killing survivors. There's no healthy way to make that a viable strategy.
In my mind, the outrage should be centered on the fact they didn't adequately compensate her chase game to make up for it. In fact they made it worse unless they un-nerfed Reiko's Watch and just didn't say anything.
That being said, when condemned is used for what is likely to be its intended purpose of being a passive slowdown, the new Sadako is stronger overall than the old Sadako.
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@Matukas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491885#Comment_3491885
This is like saying tombstone Myers is all in on doing a mori instead of hooking. Of course he's all in on doing a mori, that's his kit. And it's Sadako's kit too now, since her new condemn is global rather than local. I don't see any reason to ever not be all in with this rework.
While I am sympathetic to the plight of Sadako mains regarding this issue (I do play her a lot myself - she's one of my legacy prestiges and is currently at prestige 24 for me)
Saying "Yeah but Myers" is a terrible comparison.
First off, condemned Sadako is an awful playstyle to go against and survivors largely hate it. I also hate it and I play as her.
But survivors also hate instamori Myers.
He can only do that if using a very rare or ultra rare addon and it makes him one of the most unpleasant killers to play against in the game.
Going up against that is basically guaranteeing nobody in the trial gets any bloodpoints and are guaranteed to depip, it's awful and should have been removed a long time ago.
It should definitely not be emulated on other killers.
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Yeah someone corrected me on that already, my mistake. But the point is that there is no reason not to hook someone now.
The fact it's destroyed on a hit makes that even more true. If it were destroyed on a down, then an argument could be made that not hooking them is still a good idea because of Off The Record. But since it's on a hit... yeah I really can't think of any reason not to hook a survivor given the opportunity.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491717#Comment_3491717
Chief I wish I was on BHVR's bankroll to post on the forums, that'd be great.
I don't "only post to defend BHVR" either. There is a lot I have to criticise them for. I just don't think this rework is that bad, honestly. It might need a couple of tweaks in the future but people are acting like the character is completely ruined, which I don't think is true.
It depends on your perspective of Sadako as a killer.
Sadako cultivated a following of players who enjoyed her for her unusual playstyle of being more about strategy and macro play, since she's so awful in chase. People who viewed condemned kills as her true win condition and what set her apart from other killers, particularly Dredge and Freddy.
This new version makes playing her like that much much harder to do. Condemned has become little more than a weak passive slowdown, something akin to Pig's beartraps. This was likely BHVR's intention for her all along.
The problem is that Sadako is god awful in chase. Like really, really bad. In contention for one of the worst chase killers in the entire game. The rework did nothing to fix that, it just gave her a useless gimmick of being immune to pallet stuns while demanifested, but survivors have no reason to drop pallets while you're demanifested.
Even compared to other M1 killers she's bad. Freddy's snares are legitimately better than anything Sadako can do, and that's just sad. Her condemned slowdown is not good enough to make up for how bad she is at chasing.
She also has a lullaby for some reason. If they removed the lullaby she would actually be a pretty solid hit-and-run ambush killer. However I do think that for the majority of the survivor playerbase, Sadako would be very difficult to deal with if not for the lullaby. She'd be almost like a better version of Wraith, since demanifesting doesn't slow her down at all.
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@SteveByDaylights said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491667#Comment_3491667
Because hooking breaks tape. And you want to hit survivors with tapes to get more condemn. So you’re gonna have to heavy slug. And I asked other sadako mains and they agreed.
No, downing the survivor breaks the tape now.
The new patch notes say that if you down a survivor holding a tape, they get 2 stacks of condemned and the tape breaks.
Since the tape breaks when they get downed, there's no reason not to hook them now.
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How do you figure that hooks are worthless now after the new update they released today?
They removed the thing where you could down a survivor holding a tape and repeatedly condemn them every time they get picked up. They most likely still will nerf the Well Drawing so that it doesn't give condemned on healing someone from dying.
I can't think of a good reason not to hook survivors on Sadako now.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388593#Comment_3388593
You can easily pip up against an afk killer tho? Especially if they have a macro
If you're depipping on an afk killer that isn't a cloaked wraith all game.. idk what to tell you except.. actually do what the emblems require you to do? The only one you can't is the altruism and that's only if they don't have macro
If the killer isn't running a macro and they're just holding still and not doing anything, the chase doesn't actually start. Even if it's not Wraith. Though yes, Wraith is a popular pick for killers who are just sitting around AFK.
If this happens in gold or below you probably won't depip. If it's in iridescent you probably will.
This shouldn't even be a thing to begin with so I don't know why you're trying to defend it.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388255#Comment_3388255
It takes a lot of veterans who are already burned out from the last 6 years off it as well, people acting like this game will never end are delusional, BHVR said 4 years ago they "hoped" to keep it going at least five more years and we're coming to that deadline where eventually the higher power in that company will decide to no longer update it and keep it where it stands , the game will more than likely still be playable but I predict the 8th anniversary is gonna be the last where they announce it's ending, and by then they will have some real competition or announce a DBD 2 (which I doubt will happen)
They hoped to keep it going for 5 more years because a 5 year lifespan is an optimistic but realistic view on how long they can keep a game going.
If, after those 5 years, the game is still successful, it is a rare example of a game with a longer-than-normal lifespan and they will re-evaluate how long they can keep the game going.
DBD has achieved that status. They're not going to drop support for the game any time soon, DBD is BHVR's biggest game. They don't have any other games they can pivot to. They literally just signed a movie deal, lol.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388386#Comment_3388386
Yeah in killer at least I can somewhat manage it playing as sweaty as possible like they are still ranks... As survivor it is just out of control no matter how well you play you can still depip. But just on both sides depip standards should be lowered. I don't want to sweat like that on killer either. That's why I just give up after reaching iri 4 because reaching iri 1 requires you to 4K 10 games a row with 10+ hooks.
You likely know this but just responding to emphasize how stupid it is: you can depip in iridescent as survivor if you escape because the killer was either AFK or a basement Bubba and you just genrushed to get out as fast as possible.
The reason being because you never got chased and you never rescued/healed anyone, the game decides you didn't do enough, so you depip. Even though you survived.
Absolutely ridiculous.
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No it's fine for survivor.
All you need to do is run the killer for 2 minutes without being caught, complete two generators by yourself, rescue 2 allies (which means your allies need to be worse than you but you need to be better than the killer - easy!) and escape. All things which are completely realistic to do in your average survivor game of DBD, especially in solo queue.
How do you get the killer to stop chasing you after you've run them for the requisite amount of time so you can do other objectives? I mean I don't know why I even have to explain it, but obviously you use morse code using a combination of crouching and flashlight clicking to communicate to the killer that they can stop chasing you since you maxed Evader.
Wanna avoid depipping? Also easy, just don't get facecamped after your first hook. Also something totally under your control as a survivor, it shouldn't be frustrating at all if you depip in iridescent ranks because someone thought it would be hilarious to play basement Bubba right after you managed to have a game like the one I described in the previous paragraph.
And in case it's not obvious I am using enormous amounts of sarcasm. Please fix pipping as survivor. I've stopped trying to get iri 1 as survivor every month because of how infuriating it is, I just do it on killer now because I at least have more control over the game.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Even on PTB I saw one doc abusing this bug. I belive whenever you hit the skillcheck the Gen would regress by like 20% or something lol. Then the team started to DC one by one of course after they realised it.
Don't be so quick to assume that the only reason someone would use this combo is to abuse a bug. Merciless Storm is a very common pick on Doctor because it synergizes with his kit. Entirely possible they're using it without realizing what's happening.
Also I think this bug is inconsistent. I played against an Artist today who had it. A player I was working on gens with failed their skill check against Merciless Storm, so we ran over to another gen which was almost done and the Artist had just chased the survivor off of it, and she failed the skill check again. So we ran back over and finished the first gen, then ran back and finished the other, everything looked fine.
Theeen later in the match, someone missed a Merciless Storm check on a gen that was at 99% and it got reset back down to like 15%. I didn't even understand what had happened until I saw this thread.
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The healing change isn't happening in a bubble, it's also coming with a hefty regression nerf. They seem to be trying to push the game in the direction of making regression less impactful, which I think is fine and will likely lead to an overall healthier game state.
But they can't do that and also leave healing the way it is. Circle of Healing is a big culprit in this but it's not the only thing. Being able to heal yourself quickly with a medkit is one of the best things you can do as a survivor for efficiency. Even a brown medkit with no addons in it is more powerful than practically any toolbox with anything but a BNP in it. Emergency Medkits and Ranger Medkits are absolutely busted. The only reason they were fine for 4 years is because regression was stronger than it will be after the patch.
Where they went too far is that they nerfed altruistic healing as well. That shouldn't be a thing.
In my opinion they should make the following changes and the patch would be perfect.
-Revert the healing speeds to how they are on live
-Nerf medkits further so that they all impose a healing speed penalty that makes it take 24 seconds to self-heal with them. This is so they don't need to touch Self-Care.
-Revert the absolutely pointless Hillbilly addon nerfs
Additionally, two changes I think should be considered, but I'm less confident on if these are the right adjustments to make.
-Revert Call of Brine back to 200%, but make it so it can only affect one generator at a time. This is to make it still usable without dumpstering it.
-Buff Circle of Healing back up to 75%, so that it's not a waste of time to set it up.
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If trying to pip, especially at high grades, I will hook them, I can't afford to play nice.
if not trying to pip, I hit them but then leave them.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3387168#Comment_3387168
It was overwhelmingly hated and they still want to implement it. They are still pouring dev resources into a feature that no one asked for and was rejected when tested. If it comes out in any form other than a simple basekit yellow mori, it will be worse for the game. Both in terms of the feature being bad, and all the wasted dev time that could have been allocated elsewhere.
The core idea behind it is good, though, which is to prevent killers from trying to avoid the hatch mechanic, which has become an obnoxiously widespread issue suddenly.
I haven't played much survivor recently because I don't think it's that fun, but it feels like every single game I do I get slugged if I'm the 2nd-to-last survivor, or the 2nd-to-last survivor gets slugged if I'm the last survivor. Unbreakable has been stapled to my build and it makes me sad how often I have to use it because of this.
I don't know why killers all suddenly seem to think anything short of a 4k is a loss and they need to play like this. When I got into the game I was told that 3k is a win and the 4th is bonus points, which makes sense to me. Otherwise why would the hatch even exist? Do people really think that making the poor 2nd-to-last survivor have to sit around for 4 minutes is an intended game mechanic?
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3387123#Comment_3387123
They also ignored the overwhelmingly negative feedback on the mori / unbreakable feature and are still planning on bringing it back later.
I suspect it has something to do with recovery being nerfed on the PTB. They're creating an environment that will easily encourage slugging so in a few months they can try to justify adding basekit unbreakable as the solution.
What are you talking about? They haven't even talked about the mori update since that happened to my knowledge, and the only responses I've seen like from community managers have said that was only a rough draft version and the final version would look much different.
Why would they do an early PTB to test out a change with the express statement that it wasn't going to be the final version if they weren't taking feedback into account?
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This isn't an all-or-nothing situation. Some of the changes are good and some are bad.
Bloodweb changes: good
Medkit/CoH healing nerf: good
Altruistic healing nerf: bad
CoB nerf: A good idea but done the wrong way, something needed to be done about the 3gen meta and clearly just nerfing Eruption wasn't enough, but making the perk useless was not the way. Probably a better fix would have been to make it so it only works on one gen at a time, and kicking a new one makes it fall off of the others.
I am optimistic that they will backpedal on some of these changes. They did that in the past, ex: when they overnerfed Eruption.
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@EntitySpawn said:
Two things.
1. It's clearly too strong, doesn't matter if its situational or not theres a bunch of killer stuff that is situational and not this strong. Remember this can happen multiple times a trial as theres multiple survivors.
2. This is just a big F you to people that want to try play in a more fun/fair way for the survivors. It punishes you for not tunneling, as soon as the perk is out any time I play killer I'll just tunnel after the second hook. Screw dealing with double exhaustion because I played nice, theres enough BS to deal with as is.
All four survivors running Sprint Burst would be amazing, even if this is the price I had to pay. Just knowing I'm free to swing at them as soon as I'm in range to hit them would be so liberating.
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I don't mind this perk. It encourages people to run Sprint Burst instead of Dead Hard, which is still strong but way less annoying.
It can only be used once a match and only if healthy while on death hook. If I chase a survivor and see them suddenly injure themselves and sprint off into the distance, I'll just go "oh, ok" and then go find one of their allies. The next time I catch them they can't do that again.
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@Brandon48 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350351#Comment_3350351
I’ve seen multiple Alien v Predator movies where drone-like machines are used to scan an area ahead in non-lethal ways. Usually by humans but the Predators can and have read this information on their wrist machine thing. In AVP when first entering the temple for example.
I think this Predator chapter has been adapted enough to not be sued. There’s tonnes of other examples so if you watch Pauline esters video on YouTube it fills in a lot of gaps as well.
You're thinking of Prometheus, which is... like, related to the Alien franchise, which is often associated with the Predator franchise. Even in AVP they didn't use anything like the drones. The thing they look at in the beginning of AVP is a straight up layout of the facility, since it's a Predator temple.
Anyway, I've seen that video. She's very very obviously inspired by the Predator, but that doesn't mean she actually was a predator at some point. Like the wristblade, the theme of skulls, the triangle symbol on her documents, the fact they keep referring to her as "predatory" in the behind the scenes video, it's all quite obviously meant to point at what inspired the character.
The thing is that if they had to rush out a change, they picked the weirdest stuff to actually change. The UI element with the 3 dots would have been extremely easy for them to change. There's no reason for them to include the red triangle symbol at all. There was no need to have any mention of skulls in her name.
All of that is aesthetic.
Her power and character model, the stuff that would have taken the longest to change and adjust, have nothing to do with the Predator. Why would they turn an 8-foot-tall hulking alien into a normal-sized human woman instead of just adjusting the skeleton they built into a monster or something? And Predators never use their wrist computer to track people via a radar, or use drones to hunt in the way she does, it just doesn't make any sense for this character to have been a slap-dash attempt to have covered for a lost license.
I can believe that maybe they were in talks to get the Predator license, and it seemed like they were going to, but the deal fell through for whatever reason, but they'd already workshopped some ideas and decided to just use them to make an original character, instead. But that's the extent of what I can buy may have happened.
Also it's not like she prevents us from getting Predator because of how different she is. Like look at Legion and Ghost Face. Legion is obviously inspired by Ghost Face, but their power doesn't work at all like anything Ghost Face does in the Scream movies. We still got Ghost Face despite Legion being there, literally only 1 chapter after we got Legion, too. Meanwhile the actual Ghost Face does feel much closer to the Scream movies (despite not actually being a Scream license, but still, it's obvious they based him on the movies).
I wasn't around at the time, but I wonder if people were like "They were supposed to be Ghost Face!" when we got Legion, because they honestly have about as much in common with Ghost Face as Skull Merchant does with Predator.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350351#Comment_3350351
You didn't check out the latest movie, "Prey," huh?
Drones that scan the environment are literally a major plot point of the predator's kit.
When? Again I feel like I'm being gaslit.
I just pulled up the movie again after you said this and scanned through it and didn't see him use anything of the sort.
He used a laser dot sight from his helmet to lock on to people like all of the other predators. His major weapon he used was a homing arrow which automatically sought out anything his helmet laser sights locked on to.
The only drone-like weapons he used were the homing arrow and the bombs.
Edit: https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Feral_Predator#Equipment here's a full list of all of the equipment he uses in the movie, I don't see any environment-scanning drones on there.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350341#Comment_3350341
Have you seen what they gave Freddy?
I mean original Freddy was much closer to the movies than live Freddy, but the inaccuracy to the movies is one of the biggest criticisms of Freddy, no?
They at least tried to base him on the movies. Freddy's power over the environment in the dream world is represented by his ability to teleport and create illusions.
The drones literally aren't from anything in Predator.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350312#Comment_3350312
No problem in another inspired chapter. However, does that mean no chances for a Predator chapter in the future anymore?
They should have kept the ideas in the vault for Predator
While wristblades are a fairly iconic weapon to the Predator, they're not the only weapons the Predator has used, and they also haven't shown any hesitance about doubling up on weapon types.
And... the weapon is about where the similarities between her and the Predator end, mechanically speaking.
Wraith has more in common with the Predator, mechanically, than she does.
A Predator character would likely incorporate invisibility somehow. Or a lock-on mechanic. Like say being out in the open against the Predator allows them to lock on to you with their laser sight and then fire their shoulder cannon, or perhaps the homing arrow from Prey. That would make the counterplay to try to break line of sight with him as much as possible, similar to Nurse.
A Predator character would not involve tracking drones, that doesn't make any sense, it's not from any of the movies.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349842#Comment_3349842
As if drones were the only similarities
I don't normally post here but as a fan of the Predator franchise who has watched all of the movies and played many of the games and even read some of the comics, I have no idea where people are getting the idea that the drones are confirmation that she was supposed to be a Predator.
I feel like I'm being gaslit right now and there's some major iconic moment I'm forgetting about.
Unless I'm forgetting something, Predators do not use drones. At least not in the way she uses them.
They don't use drones for tracking, they don't make stationary drones, they don't use drones as a source for their stealth.
Predators use some gadgets which return to their hands after being used, like the disc or the homing arrow. The one from Prey used three floating proximity mines which kind of operated like Skull Merchant's drones, but those were explosives. There was one in Predators who had a mechanical bird thing, but that doesn't work at all like Skull Merchant's drone.
To me the drones are the way in which she most breaks from the Predator. If they did lose the license, it would be because the IP holders looked at the drone power and thought BHVR had gone off the rails and was mishandling their IP.
Otherwise everyone saying Skull Merchant was totally supposed to be the Predator is like looking at Blight and being like "He was totally supposed to be Mr Hyde!"
Like he's clearly inspired by Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, but Blight is a unique take on that character, and Mr Hyde didn't slam into walls like a pinball.
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I always felt like hooks should work like Pyramid Head's cages. If the killer remains in close proximity to them for too long, the survivor automatically relocates to a different random hook.
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I always find it annoying when killers do this, too. The worst is when there's 2 survivors left with several gens left to go and the killer slugs one and then camps their body to wait for the other to try to save them. Puts the onus on the last survivor to be the bigger person and let themselves be killed so everyone can move on.
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That does work up until around gold. At that point I need to start taking anti-tunneling perks as insurance to make sure I don't get tunneled out quickly.
Then at iridescent I have to start praying that the killer plays nice and that my team mates aren't so good that they don't get caught so I can rescue them, but not so bad that the killer creates too much pressure for us to do gens.
At that point you really can't just do a couple of things to help your team and pip. You need to do gens and rescues and get chased, and you need to do well in the chase. Just doing gens and getting rescues will maybe prevent you from depipping if you don't do any chases or do badly in chase, and if you're found first and camped after your chase it's a guaranteed depip, even if you did well in that chase.
I mean for context I did not pip last night after a game where I got 31,000 blood points, rescued allies, escaped multiple chases, did generators, and escaped through the hatch unbroken. Why? Because the only chase points I got was when I bodyblocked the killer because they were saving me for last because of Rancor.
And then I depipped from a game where I did 2 generators solo and rescued 3 allies because I messed up in chase and got camped to death.
This isn't too bad if you're in a SWF with 1-2 other people who you can depend on, but it is nightmarishly difficult in soloQ.
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I just wanted to come in here again because I lost a pip after running a Nemesis for 2 generators and then being camped to death.
It's just not right and incredibly frustrating to lose something that took so much effort to get because of something I can't do anything about. Running a killer for 2 generators is a pretty good chase, why am I being punished because he chose to camp me after?
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I think that might be a little too lenient, but I do understand the logic if the only purpose grades serve is a reward for playing the game a lot that month.
I would be quite fine with the current survivor pipping system if you couldn't depip.
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Extra blood points per month is pretty useful.
If you get iridescent 1 on both sides, you can prestige a character once under the new progression system off of those blood points alone, and still have some left over.
It may not matter but I can't help but feel the need to try extremely hard at the game until I've hit iridescent 1, or at least ranked up so I can't de-pip any further, and then I can start running silly/fun/experimental builds again.
Especially on survivor side, I get quite anxious before queueing with 1 pip to go before ranking up, because I know how easy it is to lose a pip for reasons outside of my control.