tuttoinunavolta
tuttoinunavolta
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@Choaron said:
The majority of players will NOT sit through all the manuals.
Sounds like the problem is not tutorials but people not willing to learn in the first place then.
That part of my post was specifically about people who just installed the game and have yet to queue into their first online match, your response takes it out of context. They're also not wrong to do so, since one would assume the game tutorial would already provide an in-depth explanation of all the non-killer-specific mechanics.
But either way, pointing the finger at these new players is not that useful, when they inevitably end up doing that either way, when the manuals are lacking information, and all of this affects game balance for every other player as well.
We can say it's their fault, sure, but it's a consistent and frequent problem, and it's affecting the state of the game, so addressing it would bring net positives for everybody.
I am saying that there should be more and better explanations and guides in-game, rather than kinda relying on people going on third-party websites and videos to learn more.
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@ChaosWam said:
Should have been a priority long before any basekit changes in my opinion.
Would have been easier to overhaul the tutorial than constantly adding new things and making it more tedious to update the tutorial later.
Even worse, something tells me the tutorial is going to leave out the new stuff for a long time, so people will be unaware of a lot of things.I agree, I feel like we (as in both long-time players and devs alike) are all so used to this game's mechanics that it's easy to forget how incredibly overwhelming and dense it all is for newer players. And that all affects game balance decisions tremendously.
Besides fixing killer bugs, I genuinely think making the in-game guides, information and tutorials as detailed, up to date and easily accessible as possible should be the first priority.
People often say it's important to bridge the gap between Solo Q and SWFs, and that's absolutely true, but fixing the knowledge gap between intensive players who use third-party sources to learn and casual/newer players who just log onto DBD to have fun from time to time is even more important, to be able to properly address balance issues.
All the necessary information to understand each mechanic and killer power should be readily and easily available in-game, because there will always be players who are not willing to go learn mechanics in their free time on other websites.
I remember how convoluted the last PTB was, with so many perks like BBQ and Tenacity made basekit and with special exceptions made for some characters even. I believe that if something like that actually made it into the game, DBD would become straight up unapproachable to newer players.
We need better tutorials that touch every little mechanic that exists, before thinking about radically reworking basic mechanics or killer powers.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023210#Comment_4023210
Mmm, though the needed suspension of disbelief to think that 3rd person view Chucky is actively running around while sitting in a chair is a bit higher than thinking 1st person Pig is holding an RBT trap out of sight.
I do agree that Sadako no having a well does hurt a bit (hey, could be interesting if one TV in the match was the well, and she spawns out of it at the start, maybe play around with the well being some kind of important teleport point: EG: one that can't be turned off, gives amplifiers), though she does remain outside of it, giving some bridge to spawning without it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023246#Comment_4023246
Dunno, could entirely be that you're correct and it's a bug, and they want to ignore its low priority by hand-waiving it away: you'd think if the change was intentional they'd open her hand like it is in her in-game idle-state, since as it is, such a stance is only ever shown in the lobby menu, sloppy.
I mean, even if we don't take Chucky's couch into account, there are way too many recently added characters that clash with this theory.
Vecna has a whole detailed lobby animation in which he pulls out his book and skims through its pages, despite the book never even appearing in his matches. Considering the reverse bear traps are an integral part of Pig's kit in-game, it'd be a weird decision to take that out and keep the book. Same could be said for many survivors (Sable's mug, Jonah's tablet and so on), and killers that do stuff in the lobby that's not possible in the game (Xeno crawling down from the ceiling, Snug holding onto severed hands, Pinhead doing that angry sudden attack with multiple chains at once coming from behind him etc.)
The update that had Pig suddenly get Freddy's main menu stance also gave Leatherface and Hillbilly the straight back posture that Trapper has in the pre-game lobby, the one where the killer stares at the survivors. These ones were bugs that were eventually fixed, and I find it hard to believe the Pig Krueger main menu thing was a deliberate change that casually happened at the same time. I also agree with you about the open hand thing; right now she looks like she's still holding onto something, with her hand being slightly closed but not fully like that.
Unless they come out and explain why they changed this, to me this definitely feels like these are two bugs they can't fix atm for a reason or another (low priority, or the fix would cause other bugs maybe), so they're passing it as a deliberate change.
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@AssortedSorting said:
Probably to present a consistent model.
She doesn't hold traps in-game.
Not saying it couldn't return at some point as an idle-lobby animation, but in terms of giving visual clarity to the player of what their character model looks like to other players, it makes sense.
I mean, I would understand if that was the reason, but if that's the case they should remove Chucky's couch completely. Same thing for Sadako's well
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Still present in the game as of November 2025
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@Boingo said:
What if Ghost face just got an Extended Lunge when he has a marked target to help close the distance?
That way he can stay the same but he can be kinda better now.
That would be amazing, yes!
@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018053#Comment_4018053
I guess we have a misunderstanding when it comes to what a "rework" means. Rework to me implies making very big changes more in line with the Freddy or Myers treatment. These Killers are different enough now to how they used to be that it's like learning a totally new Killer. On the other hand, what BHVR did for Legion was to take what they already have and improve the flow of using their power against stronger opposition. Frenzy has more utility now that you can use it for mobility and to shred strong pallets with the iri button, without the punishing penalty of a long fatigue. They feel like fundamentally the same character without really impacting the way they are typically played against less experienced lobbies, where looping skill is poor, there are many more opportunities to go for 5th hit downs and their game delay is very strong because Survivors in low MMR hate to play injured.
I personally liked the changes to Freddy because he was never much fun to play. But old Myers had his admirers and he's changed way too much for me to enjoy these days (he's a special attack and not a basic attack Killer now). I think the current pallet density is a problem for balance at the moment and likely to be reverted on a lot of maps. This will help Ghostie again, but he's always going to be susceptible to fearless high MMR Survivors slamming the gens because he has no mobility. Sure, he could be given some buffs and his reveal mechanic should be improved. But I don't know what can be done about a core issue like poor mobility without some bigger changes to his power. A faster traversal walking speed when not observed by Survivors, maybe?
No you're right, I recognize that "rework" wasn't the right word there. I mean, I do agree that the Legion changes were simply buffs and not a rework, but I guess in my mind an addition of a new mechanic that doesn't change the character's core gameplay still counted as a rework, since there's a new feature. To clarify what I mean, what you suggested at the end of your post (faster walking speed when stealthy and out of sight) would kinda count as a rework in my mind, since it would add a new mechanic that his current default kit and add-ons do not have at all.
And that's what I would personally love to see from Ghostface. His stalking mechanic should largely remain the same and he shouldn't be turned into the 4th stealth killer to have a dash. Also because making him just like Myers, Pig and Chucky wouldn't solve this problem of his kit being overshadowed, he would be even less unique. But I do think they should give him something for mobility like what you suggested (I love your idea!), or making his lunge slightly longer (slightly, not even Coup de Grace-levels) when somebody's exposed, like what Boingo suggested. Nothing that changes his stalking/stealth-focused gameplay loop nor goes against his character, but something that would be a new addition that does go beyond simply changing some numbers.
I'm also a big fan of the Freddy rework, also because it succeeds in what I think the Myers rework failed at — making the character viable while keeping it true to the original source. I mean, obviously they took some liberties, but current Freddy definitely feels closer to the movie version than the previous iteration, in which being asleep was barely a threat. While I know Myers does sometimes lunge at people in the movies, it's more of an exception to the rule to how he usually acts. It made sense to make Amanda's short Saw 1 ambush scene part of her kit, since she didn't have that many Pig scenes in the movies to get inspiration from (she does now with Saw X, but that movie didn't exist yet at the time), but Myers had enough stalking/chasing/killing scenes to take inspiration from to not have to add these very occasional and niche lunges as the main highlight of his kit.
I think current Fragrant Tuft of Hair Myers is what he should have been, with no dash + a longer stalking range distance like before. The other changes in this current rework (like being able to go back to Tier 1 at will) are great tweaks in my opinion, but the dash straight up changes his gameplay and nature too much in my opinion. He didn't need this drastic rework, but at this point they're not going to change him back, sadly.
In my OP I said that, thematically, it would have made more sense if they did that to Ghostface instead, but I wouldn't want a dash mechanic on either of them, that was just a reflection on how much I don't think the dash fits Myers from a thematic standpoint, whereas it could be justified from a lore perspective on Ghostface (Danny going crazy and lunging at these people from his tome lore). I still wouldn't want it on him either, I just think putting it on Myers makes even less sense.
I do acknowledge that I should have made it clearer because I see a lot of people think I want Ghostface to become a M2 dash killer, which is not the case at all.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018046#Comment_4018046
Fun fact!
Most of the other platforms are even worse.
Not gonna lie dude, maybe it's just my impression but your comments come off as smug and a bit passive aggressive. I never insulted anyone, never even suggested a specific change in particular to Ghostface. It's absolutely fine and valid to think that he doesn't need any changes beyond number buffs, but there's no need to be antagonizing about it.
@Colt45m said:
Billy needs a nerf? His chainsaw is super easy to dodge. lol
Yeah, I think the Overcharge mechanic would ideally need a nerf personally. Not a removal, just a bit of a number changes nerf to that mechanic in particular, and I wouldn't change anything else about him. But I also wouldn't mind if they keep him like that — I would definitely prefer that to him getting gutted or heavily changed. Similarly for Kaneki, I'd just tweak a few add-ons and hope for some change that doesn't make hitting through tall, gapless walls as easy — but I wouldn't really change anything else about his default kit.
I think Blight is the one that deserves the most changes and absolutely needs some. Make him have a slower walking speed and need more time to recharge after breaking a pallet, for example. For Nurse, I would make it so that she's affected by Blindness when she's actively charging her power, so that aura-reading perks aren't -as- free on her as they currently are. I think they should also change the way Fatigue looks like from the Nurse's POV, because players who suffer from certain conditions get dizzy because of the sudden jerking movements of the camera. They could either slow down the camera movement or have the screen go black in some sort of eye blinking animation instead, any change that would be an accessibility QOL improvement for these players.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/459078/ghostface-most-likely-needs-a-rework-now
Or, a mad idea, don't just add a dash to every killer?
Ghostface could get number buffs and fixes to the reveal mechanic so it works right and that's it.
When did I even suggest that... I said that thematically, it would have fit him more better than Myers imo, but in that same sentence I even explicitly said I hope they don't add a dash mechanics to his kit, since they already gave one to Mikey.
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@Colt45m said:
Sure why not? Lets superbuff all the killers.
@tjt85 said:
Does he really though? I'm thinking of finally pulling the trigger on unlocking the Ghost Face to scratch that basic stealth killer itch, since I'm not too crazy about what BHVR have done to Myers.
As much as I appreciate the attempts to bring weaker Killers up to the level of the stronger ones, where does that end? There's nothing they could really do to make Ghostie anywhere near as good as Billy/Nurse/Blight without making significant changes. The strength of those Killers is typically justified because they are difficult to master but that'll never be true of Ghost Face. I say this as someone who mains at least a couple of low tier Killers (Legion and Trapper), I think it's OK for there to be weaker, simpler characters on the Killer roster. I imagine most people here are experienced Killers matching with experienced Survivors and that's no doubt influencing views on the viability of certain Killers.
Low tier Killers are no doubt still eating good at low MMR. Not every Killer needs to be a viable choice at "top MMR" (whatever that is) to be worthwhile playing.
I never implied we should superbuff all killers, nor do I think it's reasonable to try to have all the killers be as good as Nurse/Blight/Billy/etc. However, the game constantly grows and older elements inevitably get powercrept, so the characters at the two edges of the tier list should, in my opinion, constantly be kept in check. Yes, Legion is simple to pick up and use, he shouldn't be too strong. But he should be viable, and in fact he did get a good amount of buffs not too long ago, keeping him on the same spot in the tier list but making him more manageable for the current pace of the game. I'm not advocating for lower tier characters to suddenly get sprung up to the top of the tier list, I just think the older characters should constantly get little changes (whether it's number changes like Pig, or reworks like Myers) to stay in line with the updated pace of the game. Ghostface's kit specifically is growing overshadowed by this new Myers rework, so I do think they should give him something new to make him more unique. Not even talking about a significant buff or an anti-loop, just something new in addition.
In my opinion Nurse, Blight, Billy and Kaneki should all get some specific nerfs (haven't played against the latest iteration of Krasue enough to give an opinion); Trapper and Ghostface should get some buffs, and Skull Merchant should be fully reworked. Everybody else is more or less fine, they might need a buff or a nerf here and there, some of the clunkier characters need huge QOL changes, but overall I believe the S tiers and C tiers should both be squeezed back closer to the rest. Blight and Nurse should still be the best characters in the game, but they should have some slight nerfs. Similarly, I don't think Trapper and Ghostface should ever rise more than one tier in the hypothetical tier list; but I do think that, right now, their kits feel just too outdated in comparison to the current game pace and other kits.
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@AcesSpeedo said:
no. ghostface was the first licenced killer i bought in dbd and i would hate it if anything about him got changed.
can we stop asking for reworks or buffs to killers we arent good at? please and thank yew.
@Colt45m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017933#Comment_4017933
They try to use him for chase then call him weak. lol Its a stealth killer.
Only on this forum you can post the ice cold take "Ghostface is one of the weakest killers in the game and would benefit from some type of change" and in response get people assume you're playing him as a chase killer and begging for buffs because you're bad.
He's one of my mains, alongside Sadako, Pig and Artist. 3 out of 4 are stealth killers, so I know he's not supposed to be played as a chase killer, Colt45m. I do well with him, but nowadays, after all the more recent changes to other killers, his kit got overshadowed by characters that can do the same things he can do, but better. Changes like the pallet density update also worsen the overall experience with him, even if you do play him correctly. I even stressed in my OP how it's about keeping his kit both in line with the game and interesting in comparison to the competition (other stealth killers that are constantly getting updates) so that he doesn't get overshadowed with time. I often got 4Ks with pre-rework Freddy as well, but the only thing that motivated me to play him back then was his name, because the kit got overshadowed over time due to power creep and it became straight up uninteresting over time.
"lol you're bad and you want crutches" is off-topic and just kinda weird. It's ok to disagree and want him to stay as it is but this is just a childish way to put it
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@Langweilig said:
You forgot to mention that they made it 30% smaller.
I didn't forget to mention anything, I just said that the amount of pallets on that realm now feels a bit overwhelming on M1 killers.
I'm not even complaining about the new pallet density update, Haddonfield really needed it for example, I just think Crocus Penn (Disturbed Ward specifically) was better before and didn't need this change at all
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994310#Comment_3994310
Cause saying something is dumb is not constructive and these posts are shared with the developers who dont need to get torn up by your verbage. Its their work to be listening to you, not their punishment. They demand our respect.
I absolutely agree that they demand our respect, and I apologize if me calling the new mechanic dumb offended any of the them.
I would say that comparing "this new mechanic is dumb" to a punishment or a deliberate attempt at torning up the devs themselves seems a bit too extreme though, I would never call the actual people at BHVR (who always work hard on the game all the time, and have made great changes in this same patch too for example) dumb, and that would be the case even if I disliked every single change ever added to the game. I provided constructive criticism in my post, the original title highlighted my discontent with the proposed change without in any way addressing the people who work on the game.
Either way my question was really just out of curiosity since I didn't expect it, at the end of the day the important part of my original post was in the post itself. And if that did in fact offend anybody on the team, my original intentions become secondary and I obviously apologize for the hurt.
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@RafterMaster said:
The best thing is, it's happening. ALL you whingers need to get over it HAHAHAHA … Or go play another game, do us all a favour.
I don't understand how balance discussion always ends turning into this boorish stadium talk. What do you mean you're telling "play another game, do us a favor" to the other side? The game needs to be balanced properly on both sides. You should want the other side to have fun as well if you want to be able to keep playing this game, as both sides are necessary for it to keep going.
There was an asymmetrical game that went all in on highlighting one specific side's "fun" only and ignoring the other and that's VHS (and it died because of that)
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Mods, may I ask why my title was edited? @Rizzo
The original title was <The "death before 6 hooks" penalty is really dumb and wasn't thought through>
I didn't call any person dumb, I didn't call the devs dumb and would never, obviously. I said this particular decision is really dumb, while praising other changes from this PTB in the same post, so I thought it was clear it was not an attack on anybody.
May I ask why that needed to be edited out?
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@tuttoinunavolta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992269#Comment_3992269
"Loads of killers have stated that this is such a colossal powerboost that it's why they tunnel."
Mind you, we are saying "colossal powerboost" in regards to killing people, in the game where the killer side has one single objective: killing people. I'm not talking about tunneling as I even explicitly said "We're not talking about a tunneling killer" in my last post, I'm talking about following the role's main and sole objective, and you're saying that the killer advancing their objective by having killed one survivor is "the most effective shortcut to victory".
This is like saying "many cooks admit preparing the dough is the most effective shortcut to make a pizza".
"So if you want to reduce tunnelling, you have to address that."
If you want to address tunneling, you need to have mechanics that address tunneling. Tunneling means to play "with a tunnel vision" and hard focus on one single survivor, completely ignoring the others. That's the definition. Having a mechanic that affects that Dwight-Meg-Dwight-Jake-Dwight hooking order I mentioned earlier has nothing to do with tunneling, and you know it, and that's why you avoided addressing it at all.
And you can maintain the stance you want, but at least stop using "tunneling" as an excuse, because you effectively just want to add benefits to the survivor side whenever the killer gets a kill no matter whether they play fairly or not. And that's definitely a point of view that can be discussed fairly and be taken seriously, but as long as you preface it as "anti-tunneling" when it clearly isn't, you're just muddying the waters and it's not a fair way to discuss the mechanics you would like to see added to the game
"Keep in mind that the non-tunnelling killer gets bonus regression, haste and intel"
This whole post was about how Sadako has unpredicted interactions with the way these new mechanics work btw. And you're bringing up bonuses that wouldn't affect her at all, while she gets still stuck in anti-tunneling mechanics when not tunneling and using her power. Besides, you can't compare the "Intel" bonus to the permanent gen repair speed, since that can be easily and predictably countered by entering a locker when you see the killer pick up your teammate. The Pop Goes the Weasel-like mechanic could also very situational compared to the perma repair speed boost, as it straight out cancels for killers like Sadako and might not be useful for killers with low mobility depending on the game situation.
"This is especially exemplified with 3-genning, which eventually became such a colossal advantage that it devolved into hour-long lock-outs."
3-genning was a very problematic thing, and they dealt with it in a great way. There shouldn't be killers that have the power to maintain 3-gens from the very start of the game like old Skully and Knight, and all the changes they applied made it so whether a 3-gen happens or not is in equal control of both sides and it's a salvageable situation, unlike how it was back when Skull Merchant released. We could argue Singularity could get some changes for this and I wouldn't be against it (I'm just not knowledgeable about that guy at all but I do guess he could try to start 3gens more easily than anybody else right now), but that is a one-character situation here.
Otherwise, survivors are as much in control of the gens they complete, if not more; if a 3gens happens nowadays, it's very much possible they were the ones who caused it.
Nobody here was arguing that survivors shouldn't use pallets at all, but I'm saying that if you loop and play your pallets mindfully, you will still have pallets in the areas where it matters during endgame (= nearby gens that weren't completed yet). You say that killers are advantaged by less pallets being around, but this advantage comes from survivors deciding to use their resources when they used them, so it is effectively an advantage that is under the control of survivors. We should definitely make a case for Haddonfield, which is an objectively awful map for survivors that needs more pallets (and you could make the same case with roles reversed for the Gideon meat plant as well, which definitely needs less strong pallets), but aside from these two outliers, the way pallets work is perfectly balanced. Survivors have this resource that can help them a lot: if they use them well, it can win them the game. If they use it mindlessly and badly, they'll get punished for it. There's no reason we should add buffs to the survivors because the killer got a kill, no matter how the survivors are playing and faring.
"But you did have to toss in an 'and perks' there because you realised survivors got jack in the mechanics department, didn't you?"
Not at all, I said perks just in case you were including NOED in your reasoning, since that is usually brought up in these conversations and there are many survivor perks that can turn the tides just as radically as it can (and I believe all these perks should exist and they have their place in the game, no matter whether I like them or not).
Also, perks do matter when we're discussing balance, whether you like it or not. Pretty much every perk that was meta for the killer side in the last few years has been nerfed (and almost always for the better, there are like only 2 minor changes here I disagree with): Eruption, COB, Overcharge, Pop, Pain Res, Sloppy Butcher, PWYF, Franklin's, Knock Out... And many useless perks became viable, without becoming obnoxious (Predator, Zenshin, Grim Embrace, Thrilling Tremors...).
The same has happened on survivor side as well, and besides a few arguable changes on both occasions, that's amazing in both cases.
I actually play both sides (and I'm sorry for the assumption but I feel like I could bet money that the same is definitely not true for you) and I ironically have double the hours on survivor than on killer, and I can send you my DBD tracker stats to show that.
In terms of mechanical additions that generally help survivors, there were many that were added even just in the last 1-2 years, such as the 8 gen kick limit, the removal of hook grabs, longer hook states, longer aura reading for gates after gens are completed, faster chest opening times and better chests in general... I was one of the three people who actively used old maps and keys a lot and I personally hate the change, but when you consider the basekit items before and after, with no purple/iri addons, they are better now (old green keys, lol) and they allow survivors to basically equip perks like WoO without equipping those perks. And I only mentioned very recent changes. Mind you, I think all of these changes were great (besides maps and keys, but that's a personal thing), I'm bringing them up just because you forgot about them. All these changes, just like the improvements to killer mechanics (like no more 5-heals medkits and gen touches instantly stopping regression) all make for a better and more balanced game. And most of the anti-slugging and anti-tunneling changes proposed for this PTB do that, as well! Every anti-tunneling change they proposed is genuinely great. But the 6 hook thing affects too many cases that are NOT tunneling and that's why it's problematic and needs to either be changed or removed.
Saying survivors got nothing is just a lie at this point. I promise I will take you seriously even if you explicitly said "I want survivors to get bonuses whenever a killer gets a kill, no matter whether they were tunneling or not", because that's objectively what you have been arguing for since the start. And that's your opinion and you have the right to have it, I would heavily disagree with you still, but at least you're being clear about the things you're arguing for, without muddying the waters on purpose. But most people (not necessarily you) on this thread are calling me a tunneler despite my main concern here being that Sadako thing which is in no way tunneling.
if tunneling really is the only concern of everybody here, I don't understand why it's so hard to say "this mechanic should be tweaked so it still exists but doesn't affect non-tunneling situations". I don't understand why it's so important that this "anti-tunneling" mechanic should still affect Sadako's Condemn despite not being related to tunneling. And inevitably from my perspective it does kinda look like for some people in this thread it's not about tunneling at all.
"There's no reason we should add buffs to the survivors because the killer got a kill, no matter how the survivors are playing and faring."
Here I meant the "no matter" as "we shouldn't give them blanket buffs without considering how they are playing and faring", I realize it sounds weird phrased like that
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992222#Comment_3992222
Why should the killer's benefit get alleviated at all
Because it's been stated time and again that this is, by a country mile, the most effective shortcut to victory. Loads of killers have stated that this is such a colossal powerboost that it's why they tunnel. So if you want to reduce tunnelling, you have to address that.
Keep in mind that the non-tunnelling killer gets bonus regression, haste and intel, which very well might just offset the repair speed bonus anyway.
This mechanic can easily activate when the killer gets their first kill overall at 2 gens left.
Which doesn't change anything about the survivor's death being a huge boon to the killer. One dead with two gens left is perfectly manageable, and a repair speed boost isn't likely to change that.
It does if you hold W and drop down all the pallets right away.
No, it always does. No survivor plays without pallets, and areas with completed gens are places the killer doesn't need to patrol or pressure. The last gens are always slower because they're easier for the killer to consistently pressure. This is especially exemplified with 3-genning, which eventually became such a colossal advantage that it devolved into hour-long lock-outs.
Everyone knows the killer gets more dangerous over the course of the game.
If you spread gens well
Then you have an easier job pressuring in the mid-game, because those center gens need to be done for that.
Pallets dwindle as much as survivors use them. Windows are permanent, and if not you play pallets well you won't have wasted lots of them. And if you played the game well you will still have resources next to the gens that are left to do.
And they will be decreased and then gone. You can't pretend survivors have as much at their disposal late as they do early.
Both sides have plenty of 2nd chance mechanics and perks.
But you did have to toss in an 'and perks' there because you realised survivors got jack in the mechanics department, didn't you?
"Loads of killers have stated that this is such a colossal powerboost that it's why they tunnel."
Mind you, we are saying "colossal powerboost" in regards to killing people, in the game where the killer side has one single objective: killing people. I'm not talking about tunneling as I even explicitly said "We're not talking about a tunneling killer" in my last post, I'm talking about following the role's main and sole objective, and you're saying that the killer advancing their objective by having killed one survivor is "the most effective shortcut to victory".
This is like saying "many cooks admit preparing the dough is the most effective shortcut to make a pizza".
"So if you want to reduce tunnelling, you have to address that."
If you want to address tunneling, you need to have mechanics that address tunneling. Tunneling means to play "with a tunnel vision" and hard focus on one single survivor, completely ignoring the others. That's the definition. Having a mechanic that affects that Dwight-Meg-Dwight-Jake-Dwight hooking order I mentioned earlier has nothing to do with tunneling, and you know it, and that's why you avoided addressing it at all.
And you can maintain the stance you want, but at least stop using "tunneling" as an excuse, because you effectively just want to add benefits to the survivor side whenever the killer gets a kill no matter whether they play fairly or not. And that's definitely a point of view that can be discussed fairly and be taken seriously, but as long as you preface it as "anti-tunneling" when it clearly isn't, you're just muddying the waters and it's not a fair way to discuss the mechanics you would like to see added to the game
"Keep in mind that the non-tunnelling killer gets bonus regression, haste and intel"
This whole post was about how Sadako has unpredicted interactions with the way these new mechanics work btw. And you're bringing up bonuses that wouldn't affect her at all, while she gets still stuck in anti-tunneling mechanics when not tunneling and using her power. Besides, you can't compare the "Intel" bonus to the permanent gen repair speed, since that can be easily and predictably countered by entering a locker when you see the killer pick up your teammate. The Pop Goes the Weasel-like mechanic could also very situational compared to the perma repair speed boost, as it straight out cancels for killers like Sadako and might not be useful for killers with low mobility depending on the game situation.
"This is especially exemplified with 3-genning, which eventually became such a colossal advantage that it devolved into hour-long lock-outs."
3-genning was a very problematic thing, and they dealt with it in a great way. There shouldn't be killers that have the power to maintain 3-gens from the very start of the game like old Skully and Knight, and all the changes they applied made it so whether a 3-gen happens or not is in equal control of both sides and it's a salvageable situation, unlike how it was back when Skull Merchant released. We could argue Singularity could get some changes for this and I wouldn't be against it (I'm just not knowledgeable about that guy at all but I do guess he could try to start 3gens more easily than anybody else right now), but that is a one-character situation here.
Otherwise, survivors are as much in control of the gens they complete, if not more; if a 3gens happens nowadays, it's very much possible they were the ones who caused it.
Nobody here was arguing that survivors shouldn't use pallets at all, but I'm saying that if you loop and play your pallets mindfully, you will still have pallets in the areas where it matters during endgame (= nearby gens that weren't completed yet). You say that killers are advantaged by less pallets being around, but this advantage comes from survivors deciding to use their resources when they used them, so it is effectively an advantage that is under the control of survivors. We should definitely make a case for Haddonfield, which is an objectively awful map for survivors that needs more pallets (and you could make the same case with roles reversed for the Gideon meat plant as well, which definitely needs less strong pallets), but aside from these two outliers, the way pallets work is perfectly balanced. Survivors have this resource that can help them a lot: if they use them well, it can win them the game. If they use it mindlessly and badly, they'll get punished for it. There's no reason we should add buffs to the survivors because the killer got a kill, no matter how the survivors are playing and faring.
"But you did have to toss in an 'and perks' there because you realised survivors got jack in the mechanics department, didn't you?"
Not at all, I said perks just in case you were including NOED in your reasoning, since that is usually brought up in these conversations and there are many survivor perks that can turn the tides just as radically as it can (and I believe all these perks should exist and they have their place in the game, no matter whether I like them or not).
Also, perks do matter when we're discussing balance, whether you like it or not. Pretty much every perk that was meta for the killer side in the last few years has been nerfed (and almost always for the better, there are like only 2 minor changes here I disagree with): Eruption, COB, Overcharge, Pop, Pain Res, Sloppy Butcher, PWYF, Franklin's, Knock Out... And many useless perks became viable, without becoming obnoxious (Predator, Zenshin, Grim Embrace, Thrilling Tremors...).
The same has happened on survivor side as well, and besides a few arguable changes on both occasions, that's amazing in both cases.
I actually play both sides (and I'm sorry for the assumption but I feel like I could bet money that the same is definitely not true for you) and I ironically have double the hours on survivor than on killer, and I can send you my DBD tracker stats to show that.
In terms of mechanical additions that generally help survivors, there were many that were added even just in the last 1-2 years, such as the 8 gen kick limit, the removal of hook grabs, longer hook states, longer aura reading for gates after gens are completed, faster chest opening times and better chests in general... I was one of the three people who actively used old maps and keys a lot and I personally hate the change, but when you consider the basekit items before and after, with no purple/iri addons, they are better now (old green keys, lol) and they allow survivors to basically equip perks like WoO without equipping those perks. And I only mentioned very recent changes. Mind you, I think all of these changes were great (besides maps and keys, but that's a personal thing), I'm bringing them up just because you forgot about them. All these changes, just like the improvements to killer mechanics (like no more 5-heals medkits and gen touches instantly stopping regression) all make for a better and more balanced game. And most of the anti-slugging and anti-tunneling changes proposed for this PTB do that, as well! Every anti-tunneling change they proposed is genuinely great. But the 6 hook thing affects too many cases that are NOT tunneling and that's why it's problematic and needs to either be changed or removed.
Saying survivors got nothing is just a lie at this point. I promise I will take you seriously even if you explicitly said "I want survivors to get bonuses whenever a killer gets a kill, no matter whether they were tunneling or not", because that's objectively what you have been arguing for since the start. And that's your opinion and you have the right to have it, I would heavily disagree with you still, but at least you're being clear about the things you're arguing for, without muddying the waters on purpose. But most people (not necessarily you) on this thread are calling me a tunneler despite my main concern here being that Sadako thing which is in no way tunneling.
if tunneling really is the only concern of everybody here, I don't understand why it's so hard to say "this mechanic should be tweaked so it still exists but doesn't affect non-tunneling situations". I don't understand why it's so important that this "anti-tunneling" mechanic should still affect Sadako's Condemn despite not being related to tunneling. And inevitably from my perspective it does kinda look like for some people in this thread it's not about tunneling at all.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992204#Comment_3992204
You're the second person to tell me I'm missing the overall picture without telling me why the picture should look like that.
Why shouldn't it? A dead survivor is a massive advantage for the killer. The repair speed boost alleviates it, but unless it's a 100%+ increase, it won't compensate and the killer will still benefit.
And most importantly, why are you not advocating for the same mechanic that would affect the other side to get into the game at the same time?
Because we already have it. As survivors do gens, the playfield naturally shrinks. Resources naturally dwindle. The pressure on survivors mounts up, and all the guardrails BHVR's been experimenting with come off during EGC.
Killers have been inundated with comeback mechanics since the game's inception. Survivors getting one isn't cause to add yet more to the killer side.
"Why shouldn't it? A dead survivor is a massive advantage for the killer. The repair speed boost alleviates it, but unless it's a 100%+ increase, it won't compensate and the killer will still benefit."
Why should the killer's benefit get alleviated at all, considering they worked for that advantage and outplayed the other side well enough to obtain it (and it's their goal by design, too)? We're not talking about a tunneling killer. We're talking about a killer who simply advanced their objective, the one the game wants them to do.
And why should that benefit get alleviated even when the game is already well in the survivors' favor? This mechanic can easily activate when the killer gets their first kill overall at 2 gens left. It is in no way comparable to your bad faith argument about less pallets around.
"Because we already have it. As survivors do gens, the playfield naturally shrinks."
It does if you hold W and drop down all the pallets right away. Playing survivor well means prioritizing the correct gens and not wasting resources right away. If you spread gens well, the last remaining ones will be far away from each other, which penalizes more than half the roster, besides the usual suspects (Hillbilly, Nurse, Blight etc)
"Resources naturally dwindle."
Pallets dwindle as much as survivors use them. Windows are permanent, and if not you play pallets well you won't have wasted lots of them. And if you played the game well you will still have resources next to the gens that are left to do.
Also, a death is enough of an advantage to make permanent gen repair boost and deactivation of gen regression perks excusable, but when it comes to completed gens, you're saying the equivalent that's good enough is: less pallets around? Pallets that are fully in control of the survivors (they can even put them back up, now they could even recreate them with the new perk) and that cost time for the killer to break? Are we being for real?
"Killers have been inundated with comeback mechanics since the game's inception"
Both sides have. Both sides have plenty of 2nd chance mechanics and perks. Are you really going to argue against that? Let's be for real now.
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@mecca said:
There should be opportunity for the game to turn around.
> Killer is having a rough match, 3 gens are done and he only got a few hooks: Felix, Jane, Zarina, Felix in this order
> Finds Felix again and hooks him, finally get a kill at 2 gens left
> Gen-regression perks are deactivated and the survivors get a gen repair boost for the last 2 gens
This is not a well thought out perk to aid the losing side. It's an aid to the survivor side, no matter whether they're losing or not.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990299#Comment_3990299
Points 1 and 2 are already possible in the current version of the game. Yes, when you add in point 3, you are adding an advantage to the survivor side / disadvantage for the killer that was not there before. I feel like that's an objective fact.
But what you're missing is the overall picture. Yes, this situation is not as slam-dunk beneficial as before, but as long as the situation still favours the killer, you're not being punished.
This is happening a lot right now, where killers are arguing about positions that heavily favour the killer, but because they don't favour the killer as heavily as they used to, they're being framed as though they now favour the survivor.
You're the second person to tell me I'm missing the overall picture without telling me why the picture should look like that.
This change (the 6 hooks thing) is a proposed anti-tunneling mechanic that disproportionately affects multiple cases where tunneling is not involved at all. The Sadako condemn example is one, but every single killer could get caught into this new mechanic without tunneling (very banal and common example: the killer hooks Dwight, Meg, Dwight, Jake and Dwight in this order. No tunneling involved BY DEFINITION, but this "anti-tunneling" mechanic activates anyway).
In this case, since this mechanic affects many cases that go beyond its intentions, why should it go into the game unchanged (either removed or tweaked in a way that it actually only affects tunneling)? You're not the first person to respond by saying "the killer still has an overall advantage" (which, by the way, is not necessarily true - imagine this happens 3 gens in and it's the first death. The killer is at an even bigger disadvantage than they would be in the current live status of the game) but you're actively dodging my question.
And if you do want this mechanic to go unchanged and affect these non-tunneling situations, why? What's the reason it would make the game better? And most importantly, why are you not advocating for the same mechanic that would affect the other side to get into the game at the same time?
A killer that gets no kills before 2 gens are done gets a permanent speed boost or reduced M1 cooldown. This is pretty much the equivalent of this 6 hook change with the roles reversed. The survivors still have an overall advantage - just not as big as before. Would you be fine with it? I think both this killer advantage example I made and the 6 hook change would be bad for the game if implemented, but at least if you advocate to add both at around the same time it's a coherent position that I can get behind. Otherwise it just feels biased, sorry.
@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
Perhaps her intended playstyle when they last updated her was to add stacks of condemned, hook, add stacks of condemned, hook, and so on, so that by the late game people are easier to get condemned kills off of more like pyramid head rather than just turbo condemn avoid hooking completely like most sadakos try to do.
To each their own ive never played sadako spamming tvs to get moris, i just use her on off stealth and tvs for mobility, which is why i loved the old version of sadako because thats all she was with a chance to condemn people to death very rarely.
I never advocated for spamming TVs without hooking, I even said that it's better to hook whenever possible earlier in this thread.
I understand you prefer to use her TVs for mobility, but one great thing about her is the you can in fact use her TVs strategically to quickly add in Condemn stacks (without spamming, which is brainless and in most cases just turns off the TVs while survivors smartly get away from TVs/turn them off). I always hook whenever I get a down, but if a survivor isn't playing their tapes in a smart way (and has some stacks locked in thanks to hooks) if played well by the killer it's really easy to get them out of the game before getting six hooks total. I just don't see why an anti-tunneling mechanic should affect this thing
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990299#Comment_3990299
the survivors now have a random buff that they wouldn't have otherwise and is absolutely not related to the anti-tunnelling purposes it should have.And whenever you hook a unique survivor you get a buff even if you weren't ever going to tunnel in the first place.
Basically, its not a penalty which is a word that is getting thrown around a lot. A nerf? Well, we need to see how powerful the unique hook benefits will be and compare the frequency of their occurrence vs when something like this would happen.
I have difficulty seeing it as a significant issue even for the killers listed, but even if it does become one its a relatively easy fix.
First of all, when did I ever imply it's more serious than that?You used the word justifiable which, to me, implied there was some deeper meaning then 'create the best possible game'. If that's what you meant, then great.
"And whenever you hook a unique survivor you get a buff even if you weren't ever going to tunnel in the first place."
Which Sadako doesn't get when she kills with her power. And yes, she'll get hooks as well and this temporary lack of the basekit BBQ is minimal, but my point here is that her progress towards the killer goal (killing everybody) during the match, will inevitably be different from every other killer's, because how her power was created.
Again, while I do have my criticisms with the change decision as a whole (another one I haven't written about is how these 2 changes are extremely specific, counterintuitive and particular that it will be a hellish source of confusion to new players), my post is 99% about this character (my favorite in the entire game, my most played killer), because she is a bit different to everybody when it comes to hooks and this new mechanic will affect her specifically in ways that do not seem intended/taken into account. My second killer main is Pig which is in a similar spot, although she's not affected as much as Sadako is.
I mean, I'm really confident they simply forgot this fact about the Onryō when making this change, after all she's not that widely played. Because just like the high-mobility killers won't get the basekit BBQ thing, or just like Oni got a change to his blood system after the slugging changes, I feel like (if they keep this 6 hooks change at all in) they should make an exception for special condition kills (this way, stuff like Sadako's Condemn and Hex: Devour Hope aren't affected in a unique, and most likely unintended way). I still think 6 hooks is a bit too much to solely and properly affect tunneling, but if they have to keep this in I just want them to take into account these special scenarios.
Regarding the justifiable thing, I understand what you mean now - but no yeah, I basically meant that word as "there are reasons that make its inclusion in the game make sense (from a balancing perspective)"
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990348#Comment_3990348
Your scenario is incredibly unlikely and thus not really that important compared to something that happens a lot. Sorry but I don't really see how the complaint of "Oh I killed someone and should instantly win the game now" holds much water.
Yeah, that's exactly what I said, sure lol
There's no point arguing in bad faith, have a good day
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990324#Comment_3990324
Yeah one in a thousand games that could happen. Oh no so sad, meanwhile in reality every other game has the killer camping and tunneling. I don't really care about some improbable scenario where the killer in all likelyhood is still going to win because they just killed someone in the first ten seconds of the match.
"one in a thousand games that could happen"
You mean getting condemn kills when somebody isn't on their death hook? If you play well it's super doable, I often get Condemn kills when I have less than 6 hooks (and it's not the start of the game, usually 2-3 gens are gone by then). With Sadako you can apply deadly pressure even outside of hook stages (although obviously the optimal way is to mix them together)
"in reality every other game has the killer camping and tunneling"
Every other game? :)
Tunneling is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but I just can't believe you if you are genuinely telling me every single game of yours is against a camping AND tunneling killer. Mind you, I play survivor way more than killer, I always run DS because I hate tunneling and I have the DBD stats site to prove it as well - but people actually aggressively tunneling and camping since the start are undoubtedly a minority. I still think it's annoying as hell, and anti-tunneling/slugging mechanics ARE a good addition, but this specific one simply isn't, because it affects too many different situations and punishes the killer who doesn't tunnel in way too many occasions.
"I don't really care about some improbable scenario where the killer in all likelyhood is still going to win"
I mean at least you're saying explicitly that it doesn't matter whether it's fair or not to you - if the killer was winning, it's ok to add an unjust mechanic (also, it's not improbable at all)
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990311#Comment_3990311
Because let's be real here. The only way that Sadako or any of the other killers is getting a kill that early in the game is if they are tunneling someone out. And if by some miracle that's not the case, you just got an insane amount of progress and it prevents an automatic win and thus makes the game more interesting instead of a slog where the survivors only real choice is to hide all match and wait for the hatch.
"The only way that Sadako or any of the other killers is getting a kill that early in the game is if they are tunneling someone out"
No, she can get a kill without ever hooking anybody with her Condemn. You can get to mori a survivor on your first chase with them if they played their TV tapes really badly, and it can happen quite often. That's how her power works, that's why I'm bringing her (and a couple of others) up specifically.
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@Foggyguy said:
Nah it's actually pretty good.
Ok what do you think about the Sadako thing that my post was about
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"Let's look back to your post and what I originally quoted:
If they play badly, why do I have to be penalized?You aren't being penalized."
Since my post is explicitly about Sadako, whose mori-fying power largely depends on survivor input, I'll better explain what is implied there:
1) Survivors screw up by not interacting enough / interacting too recklessly with tapes, their Condemn level raises
2) I manage to get the survivor fully condemned and mori them.
3) Their teammates now get a permanent boost to their gen repair speeds.
Points 1 and 2 are already possible in the current version of the game. Yes, when you add in point 3, you are adding an advantage to the survivor side / disadvantage for the killer that was not there before. I feel like that's an objective fact.
"But you killed a person, that is a bigger advantage for you" Yes! I managed to kill a survivor, which is my end goal as the killer, so I progressed on my one goal, and now I have one more thing going on for me. Just like survivors completing gens have one more thing going on for them. But it would be silly to have a non-perk, core mechanic that buffs the killer any time the survivors advance their goal, wouldn't it?
Yet we have it here in this Sadako situation: the survivors now have a random buff that they wouldn't have otherwise and is absolutely not related to the anti-tunnelling purposes it should have. It was explicitly designed to be anti-tunnel, but it punishes this (and many other) non-tunnelling scenarios. It is quite literally an oversight that affects something beyond what they planned. Hence I'm calling it not thought out well.
"What is a justifiable reason? It's a video game."
huh? First of all, when did I ever imply it's more serious than that? We're discussing the balance of a videogame on the videogame's forum. You're arguing that this change makes sense - you're literally providing what you think are justifications for its inclusion. And on my part I'm saying there are no valid justifications on a balance standpoint. What's the point of bringing the "it's just a game" card here..? I know..?"What's more justifiable then - we think this will make a better overall game.""
… yeah. and I'm saying that it wasn't thought through, because the change affects many situations beyond the ones that they planned for it to work on, and they were very explicit about it being an anti-tunnel mechanic. -
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990091#Comment_3990091
It's hard to split the hairs to find when this wouldn't beneficial for the killer. Even if there's only one gen remaining, a 3v1 is still preferable to a 4v1 (again unless the speed increase is massive).
Deaths being beneficial to the killer was always true and nobody is (nor should be) arguing that.
But this is ignoring the fact that the gen repair speed boost can be a game-changer that can be given at any time, and for no justifiable reason. This change has just too many "but"s, and the 6 hook limit doesn't even properly address tunnelling.
"Killing people would still benefit the killer" is not a good enough justification for a change that could negatively impact so many non-tunnelling-related scenarios. -
@crogers271 said:
If they play badly, why do I have to be penalized?I have a feeling I'm going to be typing the following a lot on repeat over the next couple of days:
Unless the speed increase is massive, you still win out by getting an early kill. It's not quite as massive as it is currently.
You aren't being penalized, a certain strategy / game occurrence will be less powerful than it currently is.
"Unless the speed increase is massive, you still win out by getting an early kill"
And who says you got an early kill..? -
@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989979#Comment_3989979
by not finding another survivor before running into the death hook survivor?
why would you instantly assume malice?
Right? Destaice is not even trying to argue in good faith here - I brought up points about all killers, and they just ignored all of them to tell me that I tunnel. I don't even play Pyramid Head…
@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989871#Comment_3989871
The further in a match you trigger the proposed effects the less impactful they are. Faster gen progression and not being able to trigger blocks or regression means a lot more at 5 gens than it does at 1 or 2. The proposed changes simply won't be as impactful in matches that have been going on for a while.
Being discouraged from focusing on and killing a single person early in the match - yeah, that's kind of the point. Do you think it's somehow less of a crappy experience for the player you're doing it to just because you're playing a Sadako and not a Billy?
Sadako is not incapable of getting 6 hooks in a match. She doesn't need to kill the person she just hooked in order to win. These are things you might WANT to do, but lets not confuse the two.
"The further in a match you trigger the proposed effects the less impactful they are."
Are we arguing that a permanent gen speed buff isn't extremely significant when there are only 1-2 gens left..? That's my main point, it can absolutely be a game changer, and not necessarily deserved.
"Being discouraged from focusing on and killing a single person early in the match - yeah, that's kind of the point."
I never argued the opposite. However, penalizing a Condemn kill before 6 hooks (condemn depends on the survivors, it's not related to tunnelling nor hooks) is just unnecessary and harmful.
"Sadako is not incapable of getting 6 hooks in a match""
I never said that. But at times you might get a Condemn mori before you get 6 hooks
" These are things you might WANT to do"
I also never said that -
@Destaice said:
Killer mains who tunnel every game try to discuss tunneling in good faith challenge: IMPOSSIBLE
First problem is that Pyramid Head's mori only activates on death hook. So if that happens early into the game you were absolutely tunneling.
Second problem. Sadako can lock in condemned stacks by hooking survivors. So if you got a super early condemned kill one of 3 scenarios played out. You tunneled, you went a cheesy fast condemn build with a map offering, or you're playing against noobs. In the later 2 you probably win anyways given the circumstances. So what are you complaining about?
Pig being similar in that its either noobs or tunneling for a head trap.
I love how you didn't actually address anything I've said, and just assume I tunnel people, but ok, let's address your points
1) First problem is that Pyramid Head's mori only activates on death hook. So if that happens early into the game you were absolutely tunneling.
Who said anything about it happening early into the game?? The new mechanic just needs Pyramid Head to mori the person who was last hooked, even if it's in the middle of the match and even if Pyramid wasn't tunneling, to give a permanent gen repair speed buff. It's problematic.
2) Sadako can lock in condemned stacks by hooking survivors.
I am a P100 Sadako, I know how she works. And I still don't understand why you keep bringing up "at the start of the game". There can be 3 gens left when you get a mori, and maybe you didn't get 6 full hooks as a whole. At times, as Sadako, you should focus on the condemn progress more than hooks, and it's perfectly possible to not have 6 hooks before you get somebody fully condemned.
Your point also conveniently leaves out that you could very well hook any time you can, but if a survivor plays badly and gets themselves condemned, you can't mori them yet or else his teammates get a buff. It's asinine, and completely unrelated to tunneling.
3) Pig being similar in that its either noobs or tunneling for a head trap.
I believe you genuinely didn't understand the patch notes at this point. Just like with Pyramid, all it takes is for the head trap mori to happen when that person was the last hooked for the punishment to trigger. This can happen when there are only 2 gens left and it just buffs the other survivors for no reason, without even necessarily punishing tunneling.
From your constant bringing up of "at the start of the game" it seems to me as if you don't really understand why I'm criticizing this mechanic, nor how it works at all. And it's fine, but you can at least reread the patch notes before commenting, and without being all smug about it.
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@MDRSan said:
Killers: Matches go by too fast - why are the survivors rushing gens?
Also Killers: Why am I being punished for eliminating players from matches as quickly as humanly possible?! I want my win to happen fast!
- Am I complaining about gens being completed too fast? No, I've never done it either, what are you on?
- Did you read my post or did you come on here just to flame? My post is almost solely about killers who have alternate kill conditions like Sadako, getting a Condemned kill before 6 hooks could happen (and happens!) very frequently even when the match has been going on for a while. I would get punished for playing HER POWER well even if the match is reaching its end.
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"If a Survivor dies before 6 total hook states, all remaining Survivors gain a repair speed bonus for the rest of the Trial."
As a Sadako main, that's awesome! I love the idea that, if I manage to properly use her power and play well in order to get a Condemned kill early on, with no tunneling nor slugging, I get ######### penalized for it!!
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There's no universe in which a filter that blocks certain killers/perks/items is a good idea balance-wise NGL
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Can confirm the issue is still in the game, also happens on other platforms as well (tested it on Nintendo Switch)
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@Emeal said:
Any chance for a Selfie Camera?
✌️😜
Oh make it like a Special Type of Flashlight Blind, you blind yourself and the players looking your direction behind you.
and an image of it is stored in a folder. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is what brilliance looks like.Hi Emeal :) honestly that would rock as an April Fool's addition lol. Imagine if we had an April's fool event full of useless but funny items like that
I do really hope they add a HUD-less toggle for custom matches though, this game has some stunning maps (like Toba landing) and I'd love to get some cinematic screenshots going on there :)
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I've been maining Sadako since her first iteration and im really happy with the spot she's currently in. It sucks that she's been bugged since her last rework though, we still haven't had the chance to try the effects of her demanifested flickering buffs since last year. I think if that ever gets fixed (Reiko's Watch's fix was also just partial) she'll be almost perfect.
The only complaints I have are:
- Iri Tape wasn't well-thought out. The game-changing idea was great, but the fact condemn doesn't exist anymore means the survivors can just pick up a tape, shut down every single TVs in the nearby area and completely nullify her teleport power with absolutely zero downsides. They should make it so that when a survivor is holding a tape, they can't turn off other TVs aside from the one that's highlighted (and the one they picked the tape from, of course). That or give them 2% of hindered for every extra TV they turn off, I don't know. Turning TVs off against Iri Tape is just too free as of now.
- Tape Editing Deck is a bit silly. They left this add-on unchanged between the various reworks, but now it straight up just gives a big starting disadvantage to Sadako. The 6 seconds reading AFTER a survivor cleanses (thus, removing Sadako's one way to get to them quickly) is also too measly of an advantage for that big starting disadvantage, especially since this is a purple add-on too. An entire rework would be better but I think even simply doubling the aura-reading time would make the add-on a viable option.
- The time it takes for survivors to reinsert a tape should be increased, just by half a second really. In the current state it's a bit too easy to just put tapes back in her face during a chase. I had a game as survivor where I had 5 stacks of Condemned on me, parried her attack with Dead Hard in front of a tv and managed to nullify the condemn progress before she could down me again. I think a tiny tiny tweak, to make that slightly harder but not impossible, would be ideal.
As of now, all her add-ons that affect demanifestation/manifestation flickering are kinda pointless just because of her long-standing bug. But if that gets fixed, I believe some of them (mainly Reiko's Watch) will become very much worth using. As of now, there's little reason to not just run Nails + Iri Tape every match.
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@Emeal said:
Do you think BHVR is going bring every bug to the designers table? No, the first barrier is immediate harm to the game.
I don't think you will be able to get a list of all bugs and then have the designers and decision makers give you their 2 cents on all of them. As far as I know the Community Managers only pass it on, but without it being a big problem with all other issues and things going on those issues probably wont see confirmation or acknowledgement. Why? because that would likely take the attention of designers for like idk multiple hours for minimal gain.
This has nothing to do with transparency, what is being asked here is a logistical nightmare.
Best we can hope for here is that someone decides there needs to be individual bug report forums for each Killer, instead of having everything be in one big mess with honest to god very little chance of finding the right bug or issue if its already reported through the search function on this website THAT ALSO STILL SEARCHES ALL OTHER THREADS TOO- Argh.
I think that would be the biggest improvement, rather than asking the Community Managers spend more time than what they already do keeping a list curated and up to date, Honestly Im never the guy to consider outsourcing, but I think WE have more time combined than developers to curate bug reports. If we had the tools tho.
Oh no absolutely, getting the devs to give their 2 cents on everything would be straight out impossible. But we do have a "Known issues" section that has been unused since February; I believe things would feel much better if it was used more, overall.
A bug reporting section split by character would also rock. The current bug section is a bit too messy for such a big game that inevitably spawns a lot of bugs, I've had bug reports straight out end up as Pending forever. If they were sorted out in a separate Ghostface section it would have been more noticeable, let's say
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@xoreyna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908679#Comment_3908679
That’s where my issues lie, and why it’s getting so frustrating. We’ve spent actual money on these skins, and some of them feel unusable because of how broken or distracting they look. We shouldn’t be still begging for these fixes, especially when they’re quick to fix bugs pertaining to other characters. Just a couple months ago, when Sable’s deep rift gargoyle skin looked almost identical to her default rift skin, it was fixed the very next patch like two weeks later. My initial post here has been ‘under review’ for almost three months now, and there’s been two patches since, and that’s not accounting for the other ways we’ve tried contacting them for fixes. I just want to be able to use her Modern Baroque headpiece without it looking ugly, and put cosmetics together without nearly every single one clipping in one way or another.
I feel you completely. Laurie's store outfit was my most favorite, and between the weird picks for the default (dirty torso, pants are not bell bottoms like in the movie) and the eyesore of the chapter bonus outfit (a first attempt at the store outfit before they could put skirts in the game, but left unchanged and still with that early DBD overdone dirt-for-shading thing, so it's just a non-canon ugly thing) it was the only one that stylistically matches the most recent design styles of DBD. But it's been a year or more now with the skirt disappearing right away, and recently the torso piece also started clipping with everything. I am already at peace with the fact they'll never clean up the chapter bonus outfit and fix up the default and with the fact Laurie will never get any new more skins, but damn it would be nice for the one good and movie-accurate fit she has to actually not break apart immediately, after more than one year of doing so lol.
I hope eventually they'll fix up both of our mains' bugs :)
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I feel you, very notable bugs affecting Laurie Strode's skin have been in the game since the engine update last year, and they're still there despite many reports and comments. I tried making a new report today too.
DBD is a big game and they constantly release new stuff too, so I understand that bugs affecting the lesser popular survivor characters like Elodie and Laurie are gonna be at the bottom of the list. Still, it'd be nice to get at least an ETA or a "we'll look into it in the (next/summer event/ 1 year from now) update.
Personally, even if I understand it's inevitably a low priority, having spent 10 bucks on a skin that has been completely broken for more than one year is really upsetting, especially as more popular characters like Feng and her missing thighs get their bugs solved in 1-2 updates. Currently, my main's default outfit is the only outfit of hers that doesn't have any bugs :( -
SUMMARY OF THE ISSUE: Pig is bald
PLATFORM: PC
STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW THE ISSUE OCCURED:
- Select Pig and her anniversary mask
- No hair
VIDEO:
No but here's a photo
PLAYER LOGS:
- She's bald
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858431#Comment_3858431
Awful yet not unexpected.
Piggy is still missing her bear trap in the lobby after almost a year at this point. Although this is not gameplay related, you know what I mean. It's the bigger picture.
I've seen so many things break down in this game over the years, that it's not a surprise to me anymore. I just roll my eyes.
And she has Freddy's stance in the main menu for some reason. She's had it for a year now, I've already reported that bug numerous times in the forum
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@ClockworkJink said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858362#Comment_3858362
Was it crack you smoked when you said SADAKO NEEDS A BUFF?! teleport teleport teleport Mori? 😂 She doesn't even need other mechanics. She's busted.
Teleport teleport Mori? That happened after her first rework but that was reverted almost a year ago. Do you pick up tapes when playing against her nowadays?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858362#Comment_3858362
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858366#Comment_3858366
My bad, thx for clarifying.
Funnily enough, I play her a lot this event and have not run into any problems yet. At least none that im aware of.
No prob! And I mean yeah, she plays smoothly and doesn't have game-breaking bugs, but she is effectively weaker than she is supposed to be. That intermittent invisibility can play a major role as an anti-loop and right now it's kind of kneecapped
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I agree about the Airlock Doors thing being really silly
I have the opposite opinion about realms and map offerings; I sometimes would like to play on the cinema map, but I'm not that evil to risk bringing killers to Garden of Pain lol. Wish every unique map (not counting the tile variations) had its own offering
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@radiantHero23 said:
Sadako's been fixed, no?
No, she used to have two bugs, only one of them has been fixed.
In her latest update her intermittent invisibility was (technically) buffed, but due to a bug it was actually nerfed and became even shorter than before. It's been almost a year and we still haven't actually had the chance to try these buffs
@fussy said:
Only for year? Hold my beer @ Knight
That's the thing though, as time passes these bugs will just accumulate and have less and less chances to get looked at. Most bug fix patches tend to prioritize the newer killers, so older ones like Knight, Spirit, Sadako, Pig and the various bugged characters will have to stay bugged for years
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The thing is that the devs cannot remove or change the Hillbilly's chainsaw because of the way it was programmed, and Fuchi with a chainsaw would be as lore-unfriendly as Fuchi shooting ink birds is. Artist's proportions and eerie animations fit the character much better, it was a great choice imo. When it comes to skins, they kinda have to find a compromise, and I think they did really good with this collab based on the previews
Btw the Cannibal is a licensed character, that one could never happen
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3840044#Comment_3840044
Although "I promise" is not typically considered a figure of speech; rather, it is a literal phrase used to convey a commitment or assurance. When someone says "I promise," they are making a pledge to fulfill what they are saying. In English rhetoric, figures of speech generally involve expressions that convey meanings beyond their literal sense with either irony/sarcasm or emphasis.
I know what you mean, yet even though I took it literally you never answered my question, How do you know your solution will work? Literal or for emphasis's sake does not matter, the question still stands.
It's because in that specific case there is not a pledge I can personally fulfill, so I took it for granted that what I really meant was something along the lines of "I'm sure of it", but I agree that I should have just used a clearer choice of words.
To answer your question: generally higher BP rewards always hook more people back into the game / leads them to grind more during stuff such as the Anniversary event and bloodrush weeks. A common complaint I saw on the DBD subreddit and on DBD Twitter in general regarding the last Halloween event was the poor BP increase, that led many of these players to give up on the event not too long after it started; on the same sites I always noticed a surge of people talking about their grinds had with the goal to level up characters. BP is kind of a constant goal for the majority of the playerbase, with plenty playing specific killers to do the daily quests and get old Rift rewards, players choosing their role based on the current bonus... A fixed, certain bloodpoint reward would definitely attract all these players that are grinding to P100 their mains, P3 every character, just generally level up their unused characters to unlock their perks and so on.
Overall interest in 2v8 survivor is inherently bound to decrease over time (less strategy involved, less opportunities and time to have well-thought out plays and less opportunities to have satisfying, long chases, killer pool is super small so after a while all the matches end up feeling the same...) and I personally don't think this mode could thrive in the long run as a permanent mode, unless something radical gets changed.
Since for now we're bound to see 2v8 go and come back periodically as a temporary mode (and since being able to play killer with a friend will always be more enticing than playing survivor with no strong perks and 7 unpredictable randoms instead of 3), I feel like exaggeratedly boosting the one thing that usually motivates DBD players will definitely improve waiting times, as it would attract all these players that go where bloodpoints are. Of course it wouldn't be a complete solution that totally eradicates the problem, but it's a partial fix that would alleviate it imo
BHVR is already kinda doing it with the increased BP percentage bonus and the Event Rift challenges being all survivor-ready, but the former is never a certain BP gain and the latter are not that big (and it's fairly easy to grind the first page in 1-2 days)
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@Emeal said:
and I promise that will improve the killer queue waiting times considerably
How can you promise this? Are the the CEO of Survivor? How do you know this will be the case?
I almost want bHVR try it, to see it not work. If it wasn't a wasteful to try every other idea out.It's a figure of speech, you can use "I promise" in a figurative way and have it mean "I bet", "I'm sure" in informal English. This is kind of a silly comment tbh, would you have asked me how much money I was planning to spend had I used "I bet" instead?
@HolyDarky said:
This won't solve the issue of 15 - 25 minutes Killer qtimes. In the first 2v8 survivors had a +400% BP bonus. Now, the developers improved the classes for survivors and gave them many nice extras, enabled pallet and falshlight rescues, and made the game mode stronger for survivors but the qtime for killer is still very long. The reason is that 2v8 provides the special extra of playing with your friend as a killer and do nasty combis (Deathslinger for double tap or be creative with the new classes) that you otherwise cannot do in the normal 1v4. Survivor is still the same (do gens, unhook, heal, loop ect.). The developers can give the survivors a basekit of like 20.000BP and increase the BP bonus to +1000% but the killer qtime will still be awfully long because players prefer fun over this.
Oh absolutely, I know it won't straight out solve the problem for the same reason you stated. I do think it would considerably improve them though, and that's better than nothing
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@NickMilian said:
I mentioned it to Otz yesterday in his stream and he said he's already told the devs about it - we've also submitted reports with logs and video evidence so not sure what else we can do sadly. They seem reluctant to fix it for some reason.
Somebody on Reddit said that the devs acknowledged the bug and said they don't have a planned date for the fix yet - although I don't understand if it's simply because it's not a top priority or they're having problems fixing it. That's why I created this thread, it would be nice if they can tell us if it's the latter so we know they're actively looking at it
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@Langweilig said:
Hopefully they surprise us with a little Christmas present.
The bug celebrates its anniversary soon (2more months).
Yeah I really hope so... When her latest changes were announced I was so hyped about the intermittent invisibility buff and wanted to try it, then I heard about the bug and decided to wait for a fix to come before getting used to her new form. It's almost been an entire year...
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783929#Comment_3783929
You call it part of the game, yet you think it is good that they are disabled for part of the game. Why is it still part of the game for the Killer, but not part of the game for the Survivors?
(I dont think we will reach a conclusion, so I am happy to agree to disagree)
You say this as if only these two survivor perks deactivate in endgame, but a lot of killer perks that could still be useful to the player (like Nowhere to Hide) deactivate by design once endgame is reached. Both sides have their fair share of perks that only work while gens are still up, and other perks that only activate once gens are all done. It's a good idea to always bring at least one of those endgame perks with you so you have "weapons" until the very end of the match