tuttoinunavolta
tuttoinunavolta
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783922#Comment_3783922
Man²…
The thing is, Killers think that they deserve this Kill in Endgame because there is "nothing they can do". While they had the full game to kill all 4 Survivors. This is my point - do you really deserve that kill if you failed already for roughly the whole game?
And yes, the Hatch is the necessary evil, because games need a way to end, whether it is with a Hatch Escape or starting the EGC when Hatch is closed. While guaranteed Kills in Endgame are not a necessary evil, since the game at least ends (regardless if the Killer got any Kills or not).
The killer downing and hooking somebody in endgame doesn't mean he's trying to get a pity kill. It's not something they deserve or not, it's something they achieved - whether they'll confirm the kill or not depends on the situation and what the survivors do.
The game doesn't end when all gens are done, it just moves onto a different phase; a phase where the killer logically cannot patrol gens, so it does make sense for the anti-camp meter to be turned off. Just like the killer has the chance to risk going to the gates or defending his hook, the other survivors have the chance to risk going for the unhook or guaranteeing their own escapes.
As you acknowledged, something like DS working in endgame can effectively be absolutely uncounterable in many situations. So DS not working in endgame doesn't mean "granting the killer a pity kill"; it means "not granting a survivor a pity escape". No DS in endgame still allows the survivor team to plan an escape, but it also allow the killer to have a chance at getting a kill too.
Saying that the killer should stop trying to get kills in endgame because they had a rough start is like saying that a football team that had a rough first half of the game should just give up, and if they're trying to score in the last few minutes it must be because they are entitled to winning. The players should all try their best until the end of the match; in DBD, the game doesn't automatically stop after the last gen is done, and there are many perks on both sides that only activate after this happens, so there's nothing about the game's design that suggests that finishing gens = end of the game
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I agree, it's fairly annoying
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@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772537#Comment_3772537
Not the whoppie cushion footsteps, leave that for Clown’s big feet when he does his mori 🦶 😂 Maybe her ambush is slower or buggy, idk something I noticed the past few games I’ve had.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772502#Comment_3772502
Nah, she can’t have nothing. They’d strip her of RBT if they could. 👀
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772539#Comment_3772539
A pair of pig snouts for boops since that’s what BHVR thinks she’s out there doing. 🐷
Also, need to buy a Mandy plush to accompany Ghostie. I found one 20mins away in a store but is it nice enough to get? Anyone have any places that sell well made Pig plushies?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4A5YE2SM41K5/image.jpg
Ignore my lil cat, she likes sitting next to Ghostie while he’s in stalk mode. But here’s the other plush.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AO6CY458D12F/img-0835.jpeg
That Ghostface plushie is amazing!! Do you know the name of the brand by any chance? I'd like to buy one too
I just found out about this thread I love it,,, I collect horror fiction memorabilia, I'm a big fan of SAW and Amanda is my favorite character in the franchise, and also one of my DBD mains for this reason. I'm gonna spam the Pig parts of my collection
The two Pig figures (big black coat one is a statuette, the smaller red coat one has very slight articulations) are official but I got them for cheap on Vinted, which is an eBay-like app that works in some European countries. The big statue was broken in some parts and needed some fixing. It's a miracle I managed to get the red one at all because everybody else usually sells it for crazy prices
The note is a lovely gift from a dear friend, the small Pig amigurumi was made by another close friend (same for the Ghostface amigurumi you can kinda see next to it in the second pic). Her blade was sourced by a broken pen.
The Pig plushie and her blade, the cosplay props, the hidden blade ring and the stickers (and also the Sadako/Hello Kitty figurine in the second pic) were made by my gf which is an amazing artist. The photo doesn't include all the stickers she made, and she sells them online in case anybody is interested
Some close-ups of the plushie:
You can take her blade out, it's pretty much the same thing as the ring you can see in the first two pics, just a bit larger so it can fit on her arm
I have some other stuff like pins, phone stickers and photos of my cosplay but I don't want to spam too much lol. I plan on making a Reverse Bear Trap with my gf for the next con
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Commenting to bring it up because the video link will expire in a few days
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It gets pretty much no value without Franklin's, it's easily counterable - nerfing is a solution for busted perks, not for anything that gives the killer some value.
Take your item and move it to the corner of the map or in a deadzone (next to a completed gen). There you are, perk countered
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@BlueMoonBRUHMOMENT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693773#Comment_3693773
I understand what you mean, but do you know how annoying this is for new players? Hell, even some experienced players who can't always read the patch notes.
I still have no clue what Sadako's power does, why is a bar not filled in, why is a bar filled in. Just nerf or tweak the power, reworks are exhausting to deal with.
When you get hooked by Sadako, the bars of Condemned you had get locked in and on the HUD they become filled in. This means that you can't get rid of them anymore
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I know it's not the point of your post, but in the meantime if you want to thank a killer for letting you go you can usually nod up and down (or boop the snoot if it's Pig lol) and they'll understand most of the time
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The fact the "thumbs up" feature really doesn't do anything is a shame. It doesn't need a crazy change, they could do it so the person who receives a thumbs up gets a small BP bonus.
The Multiversus beta had a feature that worked just like this (not sure if it's in the current version of the game too) and it definitely motivated players to reward respectful behavior / good plays. It will never change negative behavior obviously, but it would turn a lot of neutral behavior into positive behavior so it'd definitely be a felt change by the community.
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What do you mean you can't use DS? DS activates when you get picked up, I always have it on my build and so far I've been using it every time it activated in my Event matches
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@Ohyakno said:
You're not gonna get anybody behind making BP offerings iridescent. Folks love watching the BP number go up.
they don't have to be iri, it was just a suggestion and they could just make Cake/Pudding green and lower the rarity of the Objective-based BP offerings - the goal would be to make Cake/Pudding rarer than Objective BP offerings in some way, since they're objectively better
plus ditching the yellow and brown Objective BP offerings, that nobody uses, would declutter bloodwebs and save everybody a lot of BPs, that you could use for the slightly more expensive Cakes/Puddings
Will update the original post to better explain what I mean and remove the iri part
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Happened to me yesterday. Grabbed a survivor vaulting the window as Nemesis, the grab animation started but switched halfway through to a hit animation. Successfully registered the hit, but it seemed like it was going to be a grab
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/405737/bubba-buff-concept
No offense dude, but this is like the 3rd or even 4th time I'm seeing this exact same post... Can't you come up with something new?
He came up with change suggestions he deems necessary for his favorite character, it's only right that he shares them with the community and the devs.
It always takes a lot of time for devs to tweak characters (no offense, that's normal as it's a very dense game) and since he worked so hard on this concept it's right that he shares it periodically so it gets attention and hopefully gets taken into consideration by the team
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Same issue here. I'll add that:
In the main menu, Pig has Freddy's idle animation.
Both in the main menu and in the character select screen, she's not holding her reverse bear trap anymore.
Also, in the main menu, Freddy is floating.
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same here
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@slipttees said:
for me DS needs to bring back 5 seconds and no scratch marks also for 5 seconds too!
The scratch marks thing would indirectly nerf Parental Guidance though :( I like running them as a combo
I agree that it could go back to 5 seconds + a normal skill check. Everything else in DS is fine as it is
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I feel like, if this became a thing, every killer player who doesn't want to play Freddy or Trapper all day will be unable to play the game after a while lol
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@Hex_Ignored said:
Knight's counterplay is already quite limited (hold W once a guard is summoned) and with map of the realm even that counterplay gets weaker. Additionally, the add on has 2 effects but only mentions one in its description (increased detection radius is written but it also increases expansion speed). Apparently this is due to a coding quirk where the circle is coded to reach its max radius in a determined amount of time and doesn't account for the fact that the radius is larger with the add on. So I don't think it should be made basekit. The coding of the circle should be fixed first and then further changes could be made.
The counterplay is definitely not that limited: hold W, or go for the flag (which is probably the intended main counterplay), or touch pallets to screw with the guards' AI... You have multiple options, and it all depends on the specific situation you're in
Also, I have genuinely never seen a Knight without Map of the Realm on him. The character is already played as if the add-on was basekit
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I think this perk is fine, except for the asinine Freddy nerf that's included in it lol
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641893#Comment_3641893
I mean if someone is bad at game, no buff will make them good. Most killers have good kill rates. So i doubt most killers are weak, it's just some players are not good at game.
I see where you're coming from but I'm certain you'd change your mind after having played multiple Pig/Freddy matches against competent teams lol
Some killers are very weak, period. Just like some are overpowered. High kill rates mean nothing when it's very easy to play super scummy and make it extremely unfun for everybody involved to get 3/4Ks. But if a killer needs to do that to even have a chance, they're not strong.
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@aprilghost_yt said:
I wanna humbly offer my own take on these new changes. OBVIOUSLY these will have to be experimented with. It's much easier for me personally to theorycraft about the balance of condemned because that stuff really comes down to time vs gen progress in many cases. Chase buffs are harder to visualize...
HOWEVER, in my mind, this is a very very healthy change and a GREAT solution. This is even better than PTB in my mind!
Regards to hook lock-in: Locking in 3 stacks isn't perfect, I would have liked 4 or no limit too, but I suspect we might never win that argument. It means getting survivors to accept that she's a "buy-one-get-one" hook killer, and while I believe that's actually balanced and we Sadako mains understand that it could be balanced... I can't blame non-onryo mains for hating that idea lol. I also believe that 3 as a limit is a MUCH easier pill to swallow thanks to the chase buffs, which will actually help us get hooks and may even make 3-hooking survivors viable at a higher level of play, in some situations.
For the tape interaction, I am a fan of that being at 1 second. When it was 2, STBFL or sloppy butcher became an obligation, because why wouldn't you block someone fully from cleansing in your face? I hate being funneled into a certain build or playstyle, so removing it as a possibility kinda chilled me out in a way. The idea, it seems, is to prevent cleansing by hooking tape carriers and achieving lock in at least once, and now we have a chase power that can actually help us get hooks...
And this is where we get to the part where I'm not 100% confident in my theory, but 4m/s manifest speed SOUNDS nutty to me on paper. I've heard people call it minor, but in my mind that's actually a really really good buff I never expected. We now lose zero distance while manifesting. Combined with the increased demanifest invis and the immunity to stuns while demanifested, the Sadako 'manifest mind games' just became 'manifest free hits'. Especially paired with telephone or reiko's watch- we are basically a stun-immune SPIRIT at short range.
This chase buff changes EVERYTHING in my mind. Iri tape becomes way more viable because we actually have map pressure without condemned. Lock-in at 3 becomes (well, maybe not STRONG but acceptable) because it becomes the groundwork for EITHER 2 more hooks or 4 more stacks of condemned as the situation demands.
Lastly I agree there are still some add-ons I'd love to see reworked or improved at some point, but this is the best looking basekit I've ever seen for her and I'm just really happy about it!
Completely agreed. PTB Sadako was amazing, the PTB-to-live changes were disappointing to say the least, and the proposed upcoming changes seem like a wonderful compromise that bring her to a good, healthy state. Love them!
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It's a much needed and well-done change, but maximum FOV allows survivors to pretty much blind you from behind your character's ears. I'm not necessarily against the idea of higher FOV = higher chance of getting blinded, but not like this.
AssortedSorting is right: if a survivor can blind you, then you should see them in your screen. By doing this, equipping an higher FOV still kinda comes with a slight disadvantage, but it is fair and makes sense, unlike the current "you dare using an accessibility feature? Then you'll get blinded on your nape while facing a wall". No point in using this feature if it leads to situations that are almost impossible to counter.
One visual bug I noticed is that Freddy's right arm moves very very weirdly at the highest FOV setting while he's walking, it looks like he's constantly getting electrocuted. Although to be fair at this point there are no non-bugged things about that guy lol. His power doesn't work anymore in tight loops (like in Hawkins' hallways)
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Surprised this hasn't happened already, Map of the Realm feels like a necessity on him
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Great suggestions. Bubba needs some love - and also his lobby stance back. Right now he stands still like Trapper, and it has been like this for quite a while now
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@jonifire said:
Behavior said they did it for the old Sadako mains and almost everyone said she is too weak in the ptb. Now she gets two significant nerfs, that make her weaker than her first version!
Most of us old Sadako mains (with "us" I'm talking about those of us who complained about the very first Sadako rework, since the latest PTB was pretty much what we all asked for instead so I assume they're talking about our first feedback) were actually incredibly happy with the PTB changes. I truly believe they did a wonderful job and that PTB Sadako was close to what would be the perfect version of the character.
Is she weaker than the current live version? Yes, but the current live version is busted in a mindless, unfun way. A nerf to the current Global Condemn Sadako was to be expected, and it's a good thing.
What was not expected was this latest Ptb-to-live change announcement. They just squandered a perfect remake with completely unnecessary nerfs that make her so much weak I'm puzzled by what even caused them to make these changes.
Some people here are mentioning petitions and the sort, I think that's too much (especially considering they would hold the same weight as forum complaints, they do read the feedback) and I think that, with the latest updates and all, it's easy to see the devs are genuinely putting a lot of effort into giving us the versions of our favorite characters that we want. Again, the latest PTB version gave Sadako everything that we asked for during the first rework's PTB, and that's a sign of listening to feedback and integrating it into the game in a great inventive way. I truly believe these latest changes were made with good will ofc, but they absolutely squander the character's playability sadly. I have faith this will be a Trickster type of situation, where the Ptb-to-live transition made the killer too weak, but with all the feedback they fix those shortcomings 2-3 weeks after the fact.
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Extremely disappointed by these changes. The PTB version was pretty much perfect, feedback was clear and positive, and then they just went and nerfed her into uselessness for no reason.
The power meter change is absurd. PTB Sadako players that spammed teleport just hurt themselves by turning off all of their TVs, and it could be easily countered by just going on a locker, walking away from the radius or turning off TVs, aka INTERACTING WITH HER POWER. If we nerf such a balanced and counterable interaction because some players don't interact with the killer, then why not make it so Pig's traps just take themselves off after a while if the survivor is not doing boxes, and Singularity's pods stop identifying the survivors that have never used EMPs in the match? It's such an unneeded nerf that favors players who are not playing well and adapting to the killer character they are facing.
Counterplay was there, and in the PTB it was finally balanced, easy and intuitive. This, + the limit to 2 condemned stacks for each hook (which just totally removes the hook incentive by the way, it's useless) just make her so much more weak for absolutely no reason and just add unneeded frustration to her gameplay. This is not going to remove tunneling, it's just bringing back slugging + actually incentivizing tunneling, because now the killer who had medium-weak chase and a medium-strong macro power (which was a great balance) has weak chase and a weak macro power. She'll just be so weak and frustrating it's not even funny.
I don't understand how with this update BHVR finally removed the limiting and frustrating "you get punished for using your power" mechanic from Hillbilly but decided it was a good idea to give it to Sadako...
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@Green_Sliche said:
They nerfed her back to old Sadako and made her iridescent addon a basekit.
Congrats, she is now a C- and D+ tier killer once again.
No cooldown on TP means nothing because she is still bad at chase. 16m range for condemnation applying means good luck building up condemnation on anyone without green addons. Survivors can grab and still carry a tape for safety and deposit it once their condemnation stacks reach 5 or 6 and lose like 4, meaning she will almost never build up condemnation on anyone again.
I can see how survivor mains may rejoice this but for the rest - a classical BHVR PR move where they bring killer from oblivion back to masses to boost sales and then throw it back into the void. Not surprised a single bit that this was done to her now, given the entire hype with NC is gone.
Most of us in this thread are Sadako mains, not survivor mains. I agree that current Sadako is definitely the strongest iteration, but it's strong in a brainless, unsatisfying way. Just 1 survivor out of 4 not doing the correct tape counterplay at the beginning of the game guarantees an easy 2K at the very least for the killer. Teleporting as much as possible is the ideal play in most cases right now, and it's nowhere as exciting as the old Onryō was. The original Sadako was incredibly fun to play, but undertuned; this upcoming change is bringing the fun parts back while fixing her weaknesses.
The Iridescent add-on becoming a basekit is not a nerf, it's quite the contrary, especially because the basekit feature (it was basekit for original Sadako) becoming an iridescent add-on was one of the main points used to call the first rework a nerf (and it was a nerf in the Nicolas Cage PTB, before being readjusted for live).
Her chase is going to be much, much better now that she can get bloodlust while demanifested again, and Reiko's Watch going basekit is actually going to improve her anti-loop capabilities a lot. I recommend watching this montage to understand just how strong Demanifested/Manifested mindgames can be at loops after you learn the timing correctly. It requires practice for sure, and it's hard to do it as good as the incredible player in this video, but the potential is incredible. https://youtu.be/3Pn3ErU90gQ?si=WoT8DWC7QhvYSIwf
She has a lot of things in her kit, she doesn't need a S-tier Blight-level chase power because that's not the kind of killer she is - she needs something though, and what they're bringing back with this upcoming update is more than ideal.
That basekit-turned-Iri-turned-basekit feature is going to make depositing tapes much much harder than it is now, it is definitely not as immediate as you're making it sound to be. The biggest weakness of the original Sadako were the ridiculous TV cooldowns, and since the patch notes don't mention anything about it, we assume it's going to keep the newest ones.
16m might sound like less, but while the original Sadako only applied Condemn around the TV she teleported to, the patch notes this time around say she applies it to people 16m close to every TV that is turned on. That, mixed with the hooks locking condemn in, are going to make it a much more notable threat.
When the first Sadako rework PTB was released, pretty much every single Sadako main was complaining in the forums (including me and some others in this thread too). Most of the changes in the patch notes are basically what we were asking for when the first PTB released (especially the Reiko's Watch add-on - the complaints after it was first nerfed were very loud, and as you can see they mentioned the new Reiko changes in the patch notes despite not mentioning any other add-on).
She'll be harder to fully master than the current Sadako (every killer is) but she'll be much more satisfying.
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"Artist - Birds need a maximum range, how is she able to injure people, chase and force people off gens from Narnia?"
If she's removing a survivor's health state from that far away, then the survivor either had bad reaction time or super predictable pathing... Chasing people from that far away is also impossible as chase doesn't start like that, and when she actually shoots from far away, the crows that landed will be long gone by the time she's reached the survivor in question.
Throwing the first crow doesn't injure survivors, she needs to hit you with two consecutive Dire Crows. The further away she is, the longer the crows will take to get there (you get audio cues when the flight started too), and if you got hit with one crow, by the time her power is recharged she has lost the initial crow aura reading and if you played it well you're already at a good point of shooing away the crows. Hitting the second crow from very far away is only easy if the survivor is still sitting on the same gen gen unfazed or holding W in the same straight line since the first hit landed.
With the Slingshot tech you have more chances of landing two consecutive crows one immediately after the other, but that still
- requires a good guess and some luck from the Artist when placing the furthest Crow (second shot), as the surv is most likely going to leave the gen as soon as the first Crow lands, so the second Crow needs to be aimed in the direction the survivor will run to;
- will rarely work when done from far away, as survivors have much more time to react to the Flight start audio cue + the second hit will be much much harder to predict and properly land
I think Artist is perfectly fine. Yes, she can throw 3 crows at a time and reveal the position of 3 different survivors on 3 different gens, but that just puts her out of power for the longest cooldown possible, giving all 3 survivors time to comfortably get the crow off and position themselves in safer tiles (and she can only choose to chase one of those survivors at a time). Trying to do Bluetooth chases from far away is also super risky and really never worth it for the killer, unless you just want to goof off a little
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@MoNosEmpire said:
I want you to understand the following:
- These scenarios always happen in SoloQ so I want you to understand that there is zero communication when going for a trap removal box in any given area
- I also do not generally fail skill checks
- Just because you did not understand my reasoning behind how I explained something, that does not instantly make something factually wrong. I assumed the majority on the forums would be experienced players with hundreds, if not thousands of hours, so at times I do not feel the need to paraphrase
A pig can see:
- 5 Trap boxes
- When a survivors trap is active because of the survivors banner Aura turning RED from white
Now as a killer what would you do next? you'd keep a mental time memory of the trap activating it for later. The killer would then play the game like normal.
The survivor on the other hand has the following constraints:
- Has to remove the trap in a very tight timeframe and reach all 5 boxes if RNG is not on their side
- Usually by this point a gen is almost done and will be popped just as a trap is placed on your head after prolonging a chase as long as you can, depending on how bad the loops in an area are, so you haven't got any trap boxes done yet but your trap timer has instantly become active
- Experienced Pig killer mains clearly understand the trap is oppressive so they'd add major delay addons to trap removal (can be up to 16s per box)
- Has to traverse the map in general, avoiding the killer as best as they can
I said:
""Pig speed does not make a difference when in stealth because your timer is still continuing" and then follow it with "She can let the timer continue by following you in stealth while still chasing you". "
In other words:
- Your destination is known because the pig can see box trap auras
- A pig in stealth can still follow you without pausing the trap timer cooldown, you have no choice but to go to that trap removal box in that area because of bad RNG, both trap removal locations being so close together on some maps (for reference, yes I know there are 5 trap removal boxes), as well as lack of trap time and a heavily increased delay in general from trap box addons, and the obvious killers' memory from earlier knowing your trap has been active for a while now
- The killer usually switches to you when she see's you, again the oppressive trap timer forces you to act hastily and go directly to the trap removal box (if you delay this she will purposely just stalk you in stealth regardless of slowdown speed because she knows where the trap removal auras are and if you're in that area with an active trap it's obvious you're heading there)
- She can wait at the box and count down the trap removal timer (with her addon extensions and lets use the 16s as an example) while you're trying to remove it and knock you off it before the 16s have elapsed, you have no time to delay and if you're still in the trap removal animation it will still blow your head off
- I'm also not talking about crouch following you around the entire map obviously, she can walk at a certain range before it becomes a chase and then she enters stealth when within chase distance
This can be seen as tunnelling but it can also be seen as a design exploit.
The Pig is weak at the moment when compared to other killers so that would naturally assume only experienced killers would play as the pig. This would also assume that they know exact trap removal timers with their chosen addons like the back of their hand. I am also not talking about a scenario of them finding you randomly on a box and waiting it out to hit you, I am talking about a scenario of you being forced onto the trap removal box while they are still stealth chasing you and you're unable to lose them because of time constraints, trap removal auras being shown to the killer (this is what I mean by they know your location) and they are behind you in stealth with no punishment while your timer still ticks away.
Now you would ask:
- So why wouldn't you lose them first?
My reply would be, "How? Time constraints". With addons trap removal timers can take up to 16 seconds as someone stated in this post, more than enough time for a pig to run/stealth to you on a trap removal box, hook you once and then come back a second time once you've been unhooked and knock you once for a guaranteed kill. And thus the reoccurring, repeating dilemma we have in this post.
@UndeddJester Usually SoloQ teammates unhook you asap, finish gens without caring about inactive traps. The killer tunnelling me would just destroy me even faster due to it as he's not even left the area or purposely proxy camping in general. I haven't used plot twist much but I'll give it a go. In a SWF this wouldn't have been as much of an oppressive issue but in SoloQ it's so bad.
@LapisInfernalis 240s sounds good in theory but practically, the last 60 seconds is what screws you over when there's screaming perks, extension addons that purposely interrupt you and then the killer coming to you at least once and forcing you away from that trap removal location. That is usually more than enough to delay the trap on your head to blow up. The killer is usually happy to throw the game to get that TTV kill.
I see, the thing is
• My previous comments didn't mention SWF scenarios or communication tactics, so whether it's SoloQ or not is unrelated to them; the one time I brought up SWFs was in relation to the suggestion of a mechanic that is not in the game (at least not yet), and in that part I was simply saying that an eventual timer-pausing-next-to-crouched-Pig should account for other survivors being around, just like the anti-facecamp mechanic currently does
• I mean that's cool, I just said that failing a box skill check is one of the things that can alert Pig of your presence. I never implied you're failing all your skill checks - just that, if it's true that the Pig you played against always knew where you were, it was either because of one of those 3 reasons, or pure luck or cheats. You could have gone against a full aura-reading build Pig for all I know.
• I didn't call your reasoning factually wrong, what I called factually wrong was "she can see your timer" (which is factually wrong, she doesn't see the clock progressing, aka the timer) and taking for granted that she always knows your location (she can't, and even with a good guess she can still screw up). I understand if you meant "she can see that the trap is active", but that is an entirely different sentence, so obviously people will take what you said literally and assume you think she can really see the timer.
"The survivor on the other hand has the following constraints:
Has to remove the trap in a very tight timeframe and reach all 5 boxes if RNG is not on their side"
That cannot happen; even in the worst case scenario of bad RNG, your trap automatically gets removed after your 4th box search, so you'll never have to do more than 4 box searches.
"Usually by this point a gen is almost done and will be popped just as a trap is placed on your head after prolonging a chase as long as you can, depending on how bad the loops in an area are, so you haven't got any trap boxes done yet but your trap timer has instantly become active"
I hate to be that guy, but what other people in the thread are saying is true - that is a bit of a "your teammates are screwing you over" scenario; the HUD already communicates everything the other survivors need to know (a teammate just went down during a Pig match; a trap might be put on them) so it's less a problem of communication and more a problem of them not knowing how the killer works (which could be partially solved with more detailed and frequent loading screen tips btw, I unironically believe the abysmal "amount of complicated killer powers" / "quantity and quality of tutorial and info" ratio of the game is one of its worst problems and the main cause of the so-called "lobby stomper" killers being a thing) or carelessness from your teammates' side - and it sucks when you have to pay for their mistakes (just like when you get that default Meg that goes to cleanse every time she touches Plague's vomit, constantly gifting her free power and dooming the entire team) but ultimately it's the risk of playing in a team game where effort from the entire team is needed to win. And even though this definitely happens (happened to me a bunch too!), getting a trap put on and a gen getting completed right after you is still very situational, definitely not that common to happen every time, and it solely depends on the people working on the gen, not the Pig. Preventing it requires the same method you'd use to prevent Pain Resonance from making you scream (leave the gen for like, 5 seconds and look at the HUD), except you don't always know whether Pain Res is at play or not, but you always know a Pig is most likely going to use a trap after a down.
"Experienced Pig killer mains clearly understand the trap is oppressive so they'd add major delay addons to trap removal (can be up to 16s per box)"
The traps are the most oppressive part of her entire kit, but I'd say it's more out of Crouch and Ambush ranging from useless to very situational rather than traps being OP. Buffing the other parts of her kit and nerfing bullshit synergies (scream perks resetting boxes) would definitely popularize new Pig playstyles and thus new add-on combinations and remove unfun plays.
"Has to traverse the map in general, avoiding the killer as best as they can"
I mean yeah, but the killer (who has no mobility) also has to do the same, also assuming she's going to completely ignore all of the other survivors and gens in general that she might see during her patrol (which would put it under the case of hard tunneling, again). Complaining about Box spawns is totally valid by the way, but that is something that would be better solved by improving the spawns rather than nerfing the traps themselves.
"trap removal auras being shown to the killer (this is what I mean by they know your location)"
? That doesn't happen unless they're just using an unrelated aura-reading perk like BBQ or Floods of Rage. Are you talking about the Amanda's Secret add-on? If that's the case, the aura-reading happens after a trap is successfully removed, not during box searches in general (unless the add-on is currently bugged?) so you wouldn't experience getting targeted while having a trap on. But in either case, a Pig with that add-on can't see Jigsaw Boxes' auras, so either hard tunneling or lucky guesses are still needed to be close enough to a survivor to get value out of the aura-reading.
The thing about Pig knowing your position because of you having to do boxes still depends on them either using info perks, being lucky or doing a good job guessing - Pig players can't see how many boxes you've currently tried (so even if mentally they know, let's say, the timer is about halfway through, they have no way of knowing whether you already tried 3 boxes or you didn't try yet. Unless they've seen you, they've been following you around ignoring everybody else thus tunneling etc. etc. they can't know where you've been so far and where you are now.
As I said earlier, I'm all for BHVR taking a look at killer object spawns (so including Sadako's TVs, Plague's fountains etc.) because if I recall correctly they all share same or similar spawn points and they all have similar problems, whether it's some of them being too close to each other or, in the case of TVs and fountains, Chest offerings affecting their spawns in certain maps like Swamp. But this problem would be better solved by fixing these spawn points, not just nerfing her traps as a whole.
That aside, I can't help but notice we're always talking about the worst case scenario possible during this conversation. We're assuming the survivor will need to do 4 searches to free themselves (and that can't happen more than once per trial if I recall correctly), that Pig has a full on headpop build, that teammates are not paying attention to it at all and that the killer has enough awareness and luck to intercept the trapped survivor often. In that case, then I'm sorry but there's nothing wrong with the headpop death happening. Traps are based on (fixed) RNG, which means sometimes they might still end up activating. It would be a problem if it were to happen too often and with little to no counterplay, but I'd argue that us being here and discussing the worst possible scenario where the killer side is doing everything to make it happen and is lucky and the survivor side (your teammates) are not paying attention to it at all is already a sign that it's mostly balanced. It'd be a big problem if headpops happened all the time, to most survivors and ignoring every possible counterplay from the team. But this doesn't happen, the majority of traps still get removed after 1-2 searches and the conversations we're having are based on the premise the the survivor side is making a bunch of mistakes mixed with constant bad luck (epic bad luck, to stay on the topic of Saw)
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@caligraph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600893#Comment_3600893
that is quite the design flaw bhvr...
If the killer is in stealth, she's too slow to keep up with a survivor, and in order to get a hit in she has to either get up (currently takes a lot of time, will then start chase and pause the timer) or go for an ambush (a dash that is much easier to avoid, you get an audio cue that it's going to happen as soon as Pig starts charging it)
Her crouching speed and Ambush attack in general need some buffs; I think it would be cool if they made her faster while crouched + found a way to make the timer pause when she's X meters close to a trapped survivor (but I believe this should take into account the presence of other survivors in that radius; a SWF with comms could direct chases next to trapped survivors to give them more time to take the trap off).
But yeah, in her current state she absolutely cannot keep up with a survivor while crouched
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By the way I'd be down for stuff like screams only slightly regressing box search progress instead of resetting it entirely (and as I said before, changing the add-ons that encourage Pig to attack survivors with traps as that's unhealthy for both sides), obviously alongside the long needed Ambush and stealth buffs. But I believe everything gimmicky and unfair that can happen with her traps (constant scream reset) in the current version of DBD happens because of game contents outside the Pig's power itself, which I don't think deserves a nerf itself as it's perfectly tuned in its current state.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3602232#Comment_3602232
Pig speed does not make a difference when in stealth because your timer is still continuing, she obviously knows your location and where you're going or you wouldn't be in her radius in the first place and she can also see the amount of time before the trap blows up so of course she'll target you at least once and hook you and that is usually more than enough because addons do the rest with how long it takes to attempt to remove the trap.
"It would be a problem if she could physically bodyblock and safely prevent you from getting the trap off (she could in the past and she can't anymore, and that's what I meant when I said it was fixed by adding the 5th box) or if she could let the timer keep going while keeping you busy in a chase (and that's not the case)."
- Her version of "body blocking" atm is grabbing you off the trap after counting down the timer just before you finish the trap with extended timer addons
- She can let the timer continue by following you in stealth while still chasing you. trap timer never pauses on a trap removal machine
In an ideal match without interruptions and going directly to every single trap box you roughly have around 1/10 - 2/10 of trap removal time left.
You say "Pig speed does not make a difference when in stealth because your timer is still continuing" and then follow it with "She can let the timer continue by following you in stealth while still chasing you".
So, what is it? I say that Pig is not fast enough to chase a survivor while crouching, you say speed is not important and then "she can follow you in stealth". No, she can't. Because of that same speed that is seemingly not important. And the timer continuing is not a problem if she tries chasing you while crouching, because she cannot keep up with you lol. And if she happened to be around the area in which you just arrived - she still needs to get up (and that pauses the timer) to have a chance to keep up in chase.
"she obviously knows your location"
??? How? You keep saying this but you don't explain what you mean with that. Pig players are not omniscient, and if they know your location they've either heard/seen you, they got aura perk value or you failed a skill check. And in any of these cases it's not obvious that a Pig always knows where you are, as you said.
"Her version of "body blocking" atm is grabbing you off the trap after counting down the timer just before you finish the trap with extended timer addons"
Again, Pig players don't see the timer for active traps; to count down the timer they'd have to manually focus on counting one trap's timer at a time specifically (and they'd probably play really badly in the meantime, hard to chase and loop while counting like that lol) and they don't know when a trap will be removed / which box will remove it. When you play Pig, even if you bring the meanest box add-ons, you might see one or two traps get off after one or two box searches and you can't do anything about it. There's no way for Pig to know when a trap will go off / be removed.
@MoNosEmpire said:
I swear if I have to repeat the EXACT SAME THING A 5TH TIME.
No need for the caps lock - you have repeated some factually wrong things, such as claiming that the Pig player can see the trap timer and automatically know your location at all times. Of course I'm going to ask for clarifications, as a lot of the things you say make it seem as you don't know how her kit works. I'm also repeating a lot of my points ad nauseam by the way
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600386#Comment_3600386
Her movement speed if she is running or in stealth is irrelevant when she already knows where you are going because she can see your trap timer, it's obvious that you're going to the box to attempt to untrap yourself else you wouldn't be in that general area in the first place.
You say fixed but I'm starting to see it almost every time I play against pig.
Also, Pig cannot see your trap timer. She can see when the trap becomes active (which is right after a gen pops, she wouldn't even need the HUD indicator) and when a trap gets removed, but the timer is hidden exactly to prevent that kind of targeting
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600386#Comment_3600386
Her movement speed if she is running or in stealth is irrelevant when she already knows where you are going because she can see your trap timer, it's obvious that you're going to the box to attempt to untrap yourself else you wouldn't be in that general area in the first place.
You say fixed but I'm starting to see it almost every time I play against pig.
There are 5 boxes in the map, not 1; the Pig either has to guess the box you're approaching (and if she guesses right, it's frustrating I know, but it's literally just a luck factor) or she has to constantly keep you in her sights, aka follow you fairly constantly, aka tunnel you, and if she does that you would have gotten out of the game relatively quickly even if it was a different character (probably even faster if it was someone higher in the tier list). Her crouching speed absolutely does matter, because following you while crouching is her only way to actively follow you without pausing the trap timer. If she's not fast enough to crouch-chase you like that, she can't hard tunnel you in any way that is different from that of any other killer.
Every killer can always expect survivors to be in specific areas (survivors are usually nearby gens, survivors with a trap are usually nearby boxes) so really, all of these Pig players targeting you relentlessly seem to me a problem of tunneling more than something strictly related to traps. And the character virtually having nothing in chase (crouch/ambush powers have very low and slow stats) + some badly designed add-ons that incentivize attacking those wearing traps (that need to be changed) is what probably causes a lot of Pigs to resort to tunneling, more than traps themselves existing.
It would be a problem if she could physically bodyblock and safely prevent you from getting the trap off (she could in the past and she can't anymore, and that's what I meant when I said it was fixed by adding the 5th box) or if she could let the timer keep going while keeping you busy in a chase (and that's not the case).
Trap timers are absolutely not too short; with some lucky RNG and maybe some strong add-on / perk sinergy they can be deadly (and that has to be the case... If she could never get a kill with a trap ever, why even worry about taking the trap off?) just like a Pig can bring Ultimate Weapon, Tampered Timer and Crate of Gears and only manage to trap 1 or 2 survivors, both of which will end up taking the trap off in 1-2 boxes because of RNG.
Can I ask how many times have you played against Pig lately and in how many of these matches you died because of a headpop? I play as Pig and I often play against her too; headpops happen on both sides, but they're not too frequent, even when the killer side brings the timer reduction add-ons. I don't mean to discredit your experience and I sincerely believe you've had these frustrating matches, but since the frequency you describe doesn't seem to be as common as to ask for a pig nerf among people in this thread and other online dbd circles, I just wanted to know if it was a couple of matches where unavoidable headpops happened or if the number was much higher.
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Traps deactivate in chase and a crouched Piggy is so slow that she can't keep up with a running survivor. And what you say is true, the Pig could just roam around the boxes and wait there - but this was an old problem that was fixed by adding a 5th box to Pig matches. If it didn't come off earlier, you're guaranteed to get the trap out during your 4th search, so if you see Pig camping a box when you're about to do your 4th box search, just go to the other remaining box that you haven't tried yet. Unfortunately getting out of a game early because of the killer focusing on you and hard tunneling sucks, but it's a tunneling problem that could be replicated with every killer, not a strictly Pig problem.
Now, instead of nerfing an already weak killer, two changes that would deincentivise tunneling trapped survivors with Pig would be:
- reworking the addon that makes Pig see the aura of people who are working on boxes and the MANY addons that have "survivors with active traps on suffer from X status effect"
- buffing her crouch and Ambush stats to make using her stealth actually worth it
Pig is weak, I believe she has a great and well-thought out kit overall, but the numbers on her crouch and Ambush powers are a bit low, whereas the Reverse Bear Trap side of her power is, at the time of writing, perfectly balanced imo. But with her stealth and chase power being weak and slow, coupled with those weird add-ons that just encourage Pig to go for survivors with traps on, are the root cause of the existance of this "tunnel the survivors with traps on" playstyle. Fix that and the problem will diminish. Simply nerfing the boxes would just destroy her viability as a killer
@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600362#Comment_3600362
Oh lol, link to said meme?
"Nerf the Pig" is a long-running DBD meme because they nerfed her many times and a lot, despite Pig not being a particularly strong killer from the start. BHVR themselves have referenced it a couple of times in patch notes. The meme usually goes "We noticed that (X killer/perk) is overperforming, so we decided to nerf the Pig".
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I mean if you don't find the perk fun to use you can always use one of the many other aura-reading perks. Personally I love seeing someone with Nowhere to Hide, act like I don't know they're there and slowly turn around and go for the hit.
"If the duration was reduced to 1 second, or instead of revealing an aura it made survivors scream, or activate killer instinct"
More survivors run Distortion than Calm Spirit (and that will be even more true after Ultimate Weapon gets nerfed) and Killer Instinct is totally uncounterable, both of these would make the perk stronger. Making the perk 1 second long would just make it completely useless, and it has no cooldown because you still have to walk from a generator to another to activate it a second time and that still takes time.
Since there are multiple ways to counter NTH (lockers, pre-run, Distortion, Blast Mine, Repressed Alliance) I really don't think this perk deserves such a harsh nerf, or a nerf at all in the first place
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@BUFFDECISIVEPLS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598217#Comment_3598217
Decisive is so situational tho you gotta admit it dead hard is the one perk that has never left my build since 2017 I feel like it should deactivate in 20 meters of an exit gate but I know that’s likely not gonna happen I’d be happy with just the five seconds back
I mean, most second chance perks are situational (if you healed after getting unhooked DH is useless against perks/add-ons/killers that make you exposed; OTR will go wasted if the killer simply doesn't hit you after you get unhooked; Unbreakable, Soul Guard, Second Wind and Deliverance are never guaranteed to give value, Adrenaline might not give you a health state if you're sick against the Plague, and it can be countered if you're getting carried by the killer...) and that's probably fine, a second chance is really really big all things considered and it's good that it's not given out for free. I agree that a slightly bigger stun duration would be great on DS - but that aside I think the perk is perfect as it is.
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@BUFFDECISIVEPLS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598195#Comment_3598195
This game can’t be balanced around swfs any longer while letting solo queue players rot I’ve played this game through every variation of decisive strike I play both killer and survivor 60/40 in favour of survivor.
that being said yes I’m a veteran player I have played since 2017 and decisive strike after the conspicuous actions Nerf was perfect the funny thing is why should your perk be turned off end game to guarantee the killer a hook it’s funny that killers think they deserve a pitty kill I really find it hilarious you don’t deserve that kill just by hard focusing someone end game when you got juiced all game
When I play survivor I mostly play SoloQ and duos and DS (+ Dead Hard, that I purposefully wait to use after DS) never leaves my build. It's super useful as it gives me time to get to a safer tile where I can then use DH when needed. Again, 1 or 2 more seconds for the stun would be great imo but to say it's a useless perk that's leaving players to rot is just not true. OTR is currently better (I just fine the stun part of DS more fun lol) and if you combo it with the 2 perks above you can really cost the tunneler the game, granted you also loop aside from using the perks.
It's not "getting a free kill" lol, it's having the chance to get one last kill in endgame. The killer can still leave the game without a single sacrifice if the team plays the EGC well. Having DS active in endgame would be a completely free escape, though. Perks like OTR, Dead Hard and even Deliverance can still be used to have relatively safe options in those endgame situations, and they are not as cheap and granted as prime DS was.
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@Avo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598131#Comment_3598131
Off the record is a nice perk but it's not a prime DS
Prime DS granted free escapes during EGC and allowed survivors to sit on gens in front of the killer's face, since conspicuous actions didn't deactivate it. I'm all for considering buffing the stun duration for 1 or 2 additional seconds, but to ask for old DS back is to ask for the return of a completely busted perk that can be used extremely aggressively against killers.
Also keep in mind that DS can always be paired with other perks (OTR, which is not just nice but one of absolute best survivor perks, and stuff like DH or Lithe) and be used aggressively by coordinated teams that can plan these things out with voice comms.
I get wanting a lil DS buff (i don't know if it's possible to check user history in these forums, but if it is you'll see that I also asked for a DS buff months ago) but it's important to remember that survivor perks are the same among SoloQ players and coordinated bully squads with a plan and with the possibility to do bodyblocks much more effectively. It's important to try and balance the perks taking into accounts both of these types of players
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@Ethromel said:
When will there be a Black male survivor that's notably manly like Chris Redfield, Carlos, or Leon? These guys are known for being macho, but all the Black male characters are either small, dress mediocre without anything stylish to put on, etc. None of these BM characters look cool or feel cool to play. Where are their clothing options? Not that pink crappy jacket you guys designed for purchase like that's a real catch of an item.
One man's trash is another man's treasure I guess lol, that Adam rift jacket is like Top 5 original survivor torsos in the game for me
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@Cabalabob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598053#Comment_3598053
Having a perk to counter flashlights and having a perk that completely shuts them down are 2 very different things.
I’m not saying lightborn should be removed. I’m saying it shouldn’t make a flashlight completely useless with no counter play.
Imagine if survivors had a perk that was just “Disables the killer’s add-ons in the next trial” nothing the killer can do to deactivate that perk, just no add-ons for you today.
I don't think this is that great of a comparison, as killers can't just pick up a new add-on during the match - whereas survivors can get new items easily, with chests, Dramaturgy and getting gifts from teammates.
And whereas a full on Killer Add-on Blocker would only bring disadvantages to the killer and help the survivors considerably, Lightborn can unironically help survivors - you see that the clicky click is not working, you go back on gens and try to get the game done faster. And when the secret that Lightborn is there is out, the killer is now playing with only 3 perks for the rest of the match. Plus, there are a lot of situations where even without Lightborn you simply would never be able to get the save (the killer gets the down next to a wall) so the actual value you lose because of Lightborn is most likely not that high. Just yesterday I equipped Lightborn against a full flashlight team, thinking it was a SWF, but it turned out to not be the case and they never even used them once, so I literally just wasted a perk slot.
It shuts off flashlights completely, yes, but it comes at a cost (one full perk slot used for something that might not even happen), flashlight value is never guaranteed anyway and sometimes it can make survivors throw games. Tbh equipping Lightborn is almost always a bad choice for killers - except for those occasions in which you get the bully SWF squad that only plays for blinds, stuns and sabos, and considering how annoying those games can be sometimes, it's good that a high risk high reward perk like that exists.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
My guess is that lower MMR survivors still aren’t grabbing tapes early, and are just waiting until high condemn stacks, which is giving Sadako inflated win rates, because the current condemn mechanic isn’t intuitive at all to lower MMR survivors. The previous condemn mechanic was way more beginner friendly, because outside of a very specific build, survivors could usually just ignore the condemn mechanic entirely.
Pig has a much easier to understand “condemn” mechanic, with a timer that constantly ticks down when active, and the understanding that it might take a few boxes to unlock the trap, so people should start going to the boxes early if possible.
Oh for sure, I agree that a lot of less experienced survivors wait until it's too late to cleanse Condemn, while the best move is to get a tape as soon as TVs turn on. The current Condemn system is not too intuitive and it's a bit confusing even for those who know her movie lore.
However I do think the fact that survivors ignoring old Sadako's Condemn mechanic entirely (which was a problem, this shouldn't happen) is not 100% related to them having a better understanding; the previous Condemn mechanic was weak (and that's why they ignored it entirely usually) but pretty intuitive as it was much more lore accurate. Sadako teleports next to you - you get a stack, definitely not a good thing. Holding the cursed tape is making those stacks increase even more, this is also pretty bad.
I think ultimately the problem with pre-rework Sadako was that her TV cooldown numbers were way too long, to a point where (without a specific build or the Sadako player playing specifically to get Condemn) picking up a tape just had way more cons than pros and it was just better to not do it. Sadako not having a lot of chase capabilities also made it preferable for good survivors to just get in a chase rather than wasting time with TVs.
Buffing those old TV cooldown numbers, consequently making the Condemn-spread-through-teleport more dangerous, could possibly be the solution: making the power as intuitive as it used to be but also motivating survivors to pick up tapes this time around.
I believe the current "demanifested Sadako doesn't get stunned" thing could also be another good addition to old Sadako's kit.
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@Orthane said:
It should just be "Any survivor within 6 meters of ANY hook have their aura revealed"
Idk what their problem is with all of Pig's perks but they just hate them.
Would actually make it a great perk. If you add in "this perk activates for X seconds everytime you hook somebody" it'd literally be the hook version of Darkness Revealed and that's great
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Sounds really nice! I like this idea a lot
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496121#Comment_3496121
I just wouldn't bet on either another rework or bhvr to swallow their pride and revert the changes, especially when there are players that like those changes.
So i just think that the most probable thing that will happen is a nerf to her because of how oppressive and controversial she is against solos
I honestly don't expect good things for her in the coming weeks.
Same about that last sentence, I fear she might get changed in a way that makes her really really weak, as she currently doesn't have the versatility in her kit needed to play in ways other than the new teleporting one. So if she gets weaker in that without anything else in exchange it might be really really bad in the long run
The changes from PTB to this version were overall great though so I'm hopeful
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The Smash Hit buff is great and fine. I think there's a clear reason why every "problematic combo" tends to have MFT as the common denominator, though. That perk is already extremely good on its own, and the fact it synergizes with so many other perks (mainly Hope) is pretty crazy
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496098#Comment_3496098
I also don't want any knee-jerk nerfs, however I do think that it's not quite so simple as people who are saying to just take the tapes are implying.
Yes, as of right now, taking the tapes is seemingly like the correct counterplay, because it keeps her from passively condemning you. But it doesn't totally shut her down.
Once she's found you and hit you, now you're in trouble. You have to find another tape and fast. You can only get them from TVs which are currently on, meaning you have to run around until you find one.
So then you find one, but if the Sadako is paying attention or using the Mother's Comb, she'll know you just grabbed another tape and where you are. And now she's going to try to stop you from putting that tape away.
It doesn't take many mistakes to quickly snowball your condemned and allow her to mori you. Even if she focuses on doing this to just 1 survivor at a time, if she knocks one out by 2-3 gens left, it's going to be a hard time for the others to come back.
It's true that she doesn't have a chase power, but you have so fewer allowances for mistakes against her than other killers because she straight up ignores hook states, and while her stealth isn't amazing, she is still hard to keep track of, which makes her very good at hit-and-run.
As Otz pointed out in the video he made today on her, the counterplay for survivors is actually quite complicated compared to the level of effort the Sadako has to put in to do all of this. I'm saying this as someone who has Sadako at prestige 24.
By far the most problematic thing though is how a lot of Sadakos simply don't care about hook stages. If she never hooks anyone, survivors get very little in the way of blood points and progress towards medals for pips, which makes her particularly aggravating to play against even compared to other strong killers. They really need to do something to keep her from just constantly slugging everyone.
Oh I absolutely agree that tweaks of some kind will definitely be needed, my comment was more on how it's better to wait some time to let the community really get used to the new mechanics and counterplay strategies, so it'll be easier to understand what to change without risking over-nerfs to her.
To bring up the point about hook states, in a way I find it kinda interesting that there's a killer that plays so differently it feels like a different gamemode (I wouldn't say slugging is really a specific gameplay trait of new Sadako rather than the players, since it's overall much better to just keep people injured without ever going for the second hit until it's time to Condemn. I personally still don't slug at all even with this new kit and it goes smoothly), it feels like a breath of fresh air, very scary (in the fun way) to face, and somehow feels even more like facing the Sadako from the movie. But I understand and absolutely agree that the Bloodpoints are a problem. I'm guessing giving survivors Bloodpoints for Sadako-specific interactions (like a big bunch of Bloodpoints every time she teleports) would be a good way to keep this unique and fresh "gamemode" up without penalizing the survivors for it.
If they were to go the other way to try and incentivize hooks, then they should definitely buff her chase department. It's not hard to get first hits in with Sadako, but after the change to Demanifested Bloodlust and Reiko's Watch chases feel terrible, and Bamboozle/Crowd Control feels like a necessity on her. I do hope they go for the former solution because such a different playstyle is really refreshing (again, obviously it needs tweaks for balance's sake, but I've grown to like it a lot), but if they were to go the hook way, they should definitely do something to help her with that because that playstyle would be kinda unsustainable with her current kit
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@NerfDHalready said:
she is a noob stomper for sure. but counterplay is super simple and very strong so it will just take some time before she is unplayable.
I kinda agree. I think it's just a matter of time before the community understands the right counter and makes her way less threatening than she seems now. Any preemptive nerf could potentially kill the character in the long run and I really hope they give it a few more weeks before changing anything about her.
It's just that she went from "the killer with an interactive power you should just completely ignore" (I don't fully agree with that but it definitely was the most popular opinion) to "interact with her power often or you throw the game", which is no different than Pig or Pinhead or Singularity. The majority of a game community is probably not so invested to the point of browsing forums and reading update posts, so many suddenly just found themselves dying to the one killer's power they learnt to totally ignore.
Sadako feels kinda Plague-ish in the sense that the way to counter her is to choose between the lesser evil (holding onto tapes from the start and putting them away in specific situations/never cleansing the vomit unless in specific situations VS not using tapes and getting condemned easily/cleansing often and giving Plague a better power). And just like with Plague new players will inevitably screw up until they read up on her power.
It is very possible to counter Sadako and it'll seem much easier and less of a hassle in a couple of weeks. It's just that, right now, it's like a kinda complicated Plague-like new killer released, but it has the slot and skin of a preexisting character that the survivors mostly just ignored for a year. And the PTB for this "new" killer was so different it's like it wasn't there.
The beginning is bound to feel really really rough but I have the feeling things are going to feel more balanced and less worrying in a matter of 1-2 weeks. Fingers crossed any eventual change to her won't gut her
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I agree, I'd love for his voicelines to be a bit more common in-game
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The update has been out for less than a week; give players (and yourself) some time to adapt to her new mechanics before advocating for completely nerfing the character.
The way she plays has changed a lot and it basically feels like a new killer; when it comes to old Sadako every content creator and guide always repeated "just ignore her power completely" and that's how everybody played against her. I can vouch for that, I main her and nobody ever cared to touch a tape, aside from the occasional very-new player who interacted with all TVs in the first few minutes of the game for no rhyme or reason.
Now she's completely changed (in a way that is different from the PTB, too), and you suddenly get tons of players who don't really care about forums nor read dev update posts still use the same tactics as before. But her power changed, and now ignoring her power or doing tapes at the last minute is no different to having an active Pig trap on and just... not doing anything about it. And I had many people play like that in my new Sadako matches - but that's ok, she's new, people who don't keep up with the updates outside of the game need to play multiple matches against a "new" character to learn how to counter her.
I'm not saying she's perfect nor that she won't need a few tweaks. Not at all, pretty sure she needs some and she will get them. I'm just saying that calling for hard nerfs and changes to a killer that was basically reworked into a different character, three days after the fact, is not fair - give the community time to properly understand the changes.