Zakon05
Zakon05
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@Devil_hit11 said:
the perk combo is not a problem.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821753#Comment_3821753
soloq is not excuse for playing bad. balancing around the player playing bad leads to every killer perk being as good as styptic touch.
From someone who ends up playing janitor every single time I encounter this combo as I have to go move all of my team's items into the corners of the map:
Heck you.
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821839#Comment_3821839
Sorry but no, Ghostface is indeed weak. Objectively the weakest killer in the game against competent survs along Onryo. His saving grace is indoor maps.
Ghost Face and especially Sadako are not the weakest killers in the game.
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[b]Edit: This was a response to a post which seems like it got deleted?[/b]
I'm opposed to this change but this is just silly.
Survivors don't always find the hatch first, don't be ridiculous. In fact a lot of survivors when they're the last one left have given up trying to find hatch and instead hide by the exit gate so they can begin opening it ASAP when killer closes hatch, since they think their odds of escaping that way are higher than hoping they find the hatch first.
About the ebony mori… I mean that's a really nice way of saying "I tunnel aggressively and use it to bypass potential DS" since that's the only way moris help you eliminate survivors faster. Otherwise at best they let you kill someone who's already on death hook without having to worry about save attempts.
I could be blind, but I don't see anything in the patch notes suggesting Rancor is being changed. Seems like Rancor and Devour Hope will still let you mori survivors without them being the last one left.
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I was coming here to post something similar.
Please reconsider the change to the mori offerings. Slugging for the 4k is really annoying to be on the receiving end of, and it happens a lot even without a real incentive for the killer to do it.
Now they're giving them an incentive.
I don't understand how they came to the conclusion to do this, since this was part of the reason the original finisher mori system also came with basekit unbreakable.
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Dracula is my favorite killer they've released in a very long time. I'm an enormous Castlevania fan and his kit clicks with me perfectly. I was so happy that a character I anticipated so much ended up also being one I adored playing as and against. I have funneled every blood point I've gotten since I prestiged Trevor to 3 into trying to get Dracula to prestige 100.
I am skeptical about the change to the cooldown of shapeshift. 5 seconds felt great. I don't mind a bat movespeed buff, but I feel like it's too easy for him to stay on top of survivors now since he can swap forms so quickly and freely. I feel like wolf form is a much healthier design for countering survivors who just hold W. It does just enough to keep survivors honest and encourage them to stay near structures and loops, the fun part of the game. The ability to so rapidly hit a survivor, shift to bat, get back on top of them, then shift back might be a bit too much for him to still be enjoyable to play against.
I felt like he was perfect before. Even without hug tech, he felt like a solid killer who floated somewhere between the bottom of A tier and the top of B tier, which as far as I'm concerned is the area they should be shooting for. Not too strong, not too weak.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796243#Comment_3796243
Yeah, that's wrong. Twins, Skull Merchant, and Unknown are pretty bad and even they're more consistent than him. Except for the skeletons, and only when spawned point-blank, he's a glorified M1.
None of the killers mentioned in this post are bad.
The worst one is Skull Merchant and she's still pretty dangerous.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/422768/rip-weave-attunement
Or you just accept that those perks were overtuned?
Ultimate Weapon was definitely overtuned and I cannot believe anyone thinks it wasn't. I can't even believe that perk made it to live in that state. It's still pretty decent, too. It just got knocked down to like a 3-star perk instead of a 5-star one. I would actually give it 4-stars, I use it frequently due to the prevalence of Distortion rats.
STBFL got over-nerfed, though. The change to make it so you lose stacks if the obsession loses health states was a good one, even if I'm a bit sad since it was kinda fun to use sometimes on M2 killers, but I don't think it was ever an optimal pick on any of them. But they also reduced the amount of attack cooldown reduction you got off of it, which considering it's now basically only worth using on M1 killers is excessive.
Well, I would say that, but of course when people are talking about how weak M1 killers are, people often forget that Spirit is technically an M1 killer. Vecna could even be considered one, even if he does get hits with FotD sometimes.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772814#Comment_3772814
Pretty much same experience here. Either everyone knows what they're doing and the generators fly by, or you're just solemnly watching 7 teammates do nothing. Also, I just don't enjoy being chased by two killers. There's really nothing you can do if they sandwich you at a loop.
The class system underwhelms me too. The only two that are engaging are Escapist and Scout, although the latter doesn't get very good BPs if you use it properly. Guide and Healer are important for getting objectives done, but their abilities are so passive and uninteresting that I'm not surprised noone in my lobbies is using them.
Guide is only good if you're able to consistently hit Great skillchecks. It doesn't provide any other noteworthy benefits. Its passive effects are extremely negligible.
If you are good at hitting Great skillchecks, though, PLEASE play Guide.
Overall though I'd rather have a Medic on the team than a Guide who never hits a great skillcheck. And I'd rather have 4 Escapists and 4 Scouts than a Medic. But I would definitely sacrifice Scouts for Guides who can hit great skill checks.
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@pigslittlepet said:
Umm there is blocks on gens in 2v8. I've had them trigger on me. Same as 1v4. Once you reach the limit you can kick to activate perks and start regression but there's no 5% removed.
If true, I am shocked it didn't trigger given how many times they chased us off of each generator and kicked it.
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@Neaxolotl said:
I highly doubt there is a situation where "no one could work on a gen" in 2v8
The map was Crotus Prenn Asylum. 2 survivors were dead, so it was a 2v6.
Two generators were directly outside of the asylum itself, beside the entrances, both on opposite sides of the building.
One was on the top floor, one was in the room on the side with the glass windows. This one was also near where one of the generators outside was. The Nurse covered these 3, since she could teleport up floors and through walls.
On the opposite side, past the generator just outside of that entrance/exit, there was another generator behind it in a ruined building with chest high walls, and then a third was inside of a jungle gym directly beside it. I think there might have been a 4th also in this cluster, I can't remember now, but it was close to the others as well if it was there. Wraith covered these, since he could use his speed while cloaked to patrol them quickly and chase people off.Doing the gens on the side with the Nurse was impossible, they were separated by walls but Nurse doesn't care about walls. She was able to patrol them far too quickly. The Wraith was easier to manage, and with coordination, we likely could have finished one of those.
But this is 2v8 mode, there was no coordination. The Wraith almost let us finish one of the gens, but my ally ran off of it with about 5% of the gen to go when Wraith uncloaked next to us. I was prepared to take the first hit and finish it in his face, but the context command prioritized using my self-care instead of working on the gen right in front of me, so I just died instead.
This was after an incredibly grueling battle of attrition with us having to constantly reset since it's relatively easy for both Wraith and Nurse to get the first hit on someone in a chase, and the base regression speed is extremely fast in 2v8 mode, so gens would regress about as quickly as it took for us to reset our injured.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771556#Comment_3771556
Those pesky Survivors. They DESERVE to be punished. DESERVE!!
Seriously, it will be a change which will be implemented and one week after implementation nobody will talk or care about it.
You are reading "deserve" very uncharitably here, I think.
It's so exhausting with this community, everybody takes things so personally.
Mistakes deserve to be punished, not because you are a bad person for playing survivor, but because they are the consequences for your actions in the video game. Punishing mistakes is how you win PvP games, and DBD is no exception.
If you greed generators instead of rescuing your friend, the consequence is that your friend might hit second stage or die on hook. You deserve that because you chose to trade a hook stage for generator efficiency. It might even be the correct play depending on the circumstance.
To deny this is to claim that you don't deserve to have your friend hit second stage because you greeded gens when you clearly do. Sucks for the person on the hook but them's the breaks when you're playing the team role.
All of this said, just 10 extra seconds hopefully should only punish egregious campers and not killers who are camping to punish survivors greeding gens instead of going for the save and letting their ally get close to the next hook stage.
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Well, I may not be a survivor main, but to combat some of the "us vs them" posting I'm seeing…
Generally speaking, it's not the strength of the killer that matters, it's how much it allows for survivor skill expression and counterplay.
The problem is that it's rare for a killer to be good while also allowing for survivor skill expression and counterplay.
Hillbilly, Wesker, Huntress, and Oni are all examples of killers who I find survivors enjoy being matched against while also being strong.
Meanwhile, some lower tier killers who survivors seem to hate being matched against are Knight, Skull Merchant, old Legion. They're all killers who deny survivor skill expression, even if the end result is that they're on the weaker side.
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Sure, sometimes it's because you just took the killer on a long chase and none of your allies are on gens.
In my experience this is almost as rare as self-unhooking using the feature.
The overwhelming majority of times I've seen it, the survivor just got wrecked in chase and is raging. Or they don't like the killer they're playing against.
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Please no, I don't want even more Trappers.
Hearing her hum means at least one of the killers isn't Trapper. And Huntress is 10000 times more fun to play against.
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@Slowpeach said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769216#Comment_3769216
If you enjoy it fair enough. Good for you. Still though I think considering how bad killer queues are… a lot of people do not. It really comes down to shiny new toys for one side and the lack of skill expression for the other.
You are right about the pros and there are things which certainly could be added or taken to the base game if certain people wouldn’t… riot upon unhealthy mechanics being removed but that’s another issue.I’ll also add that lesser skilled or newer players are likely to enjoy it more because their chases tend to be short anyway and all players regardless of how many perks they have unlocked have the exact same tools available. Not saying you aren’t skilled of course and even if you aren’t (to be fair I’m not great in chase so…) that shouldn’t be a restriction for your own or anyones enjoyment or invalidate any opinion or preferences.
I don't think the killer queues are due to survivors not enjoying the mode. I mean part of it is because of the small killer pool but not being able to have 2 of the same killer in a match.
But really, it ties into why the queues for the base game are also bad.
I was having trouble figuring that one out, but I asked about it in a thread and someone pointed it out to me: survivor is the more played role because you can play with friends. Killers can now also play with friends.
Most SWFs are not 4-stacks. They're often just 2 people playing together. Those people make up a sizable population of the survivor playerbase. Now they can play killer instead and not have to be stuck with 2 randos. So I wouldn't be surprised if the overwhelming majority of the survivor playerbase in 2v8 mode are solo queue players like me.
While I do think 2v8 mode is the superior solo queue exprience, it does come with a tradeoff of losing the skill expression for things like flashlight blinds, saves, sabos - you don't really feel their loss in solo queue because they rarely happen in solo queue to begin with. SWFs would feel it, though.
Speaking of which, I hope you understand that the cages would not work in 1v4 for this reason. You can't just add all the nice benefits that the cages have in 1v4 without also taking away the ability for survivors to deny hooks with saves and sabos and bodyblocks. It's a tradeoff. Because you can deny the killer a hook, the killer can make unhooks really unpleasant. It's also a tradeoff that only really matters to SWFs, because I know that a lot of killers would gladly agree to lose out on tunneling and camping as pressure tools if they could never be denied a hook.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769216#Comment_3769216
go to @Slowpeach comment on the first page. He summarize it pretty well.
Most survivor get there enjoyment from looping. pincer Maneuvers don't leave room for skill expression. Gens can be rush quickly in this mode but that really isn't enticing. Like you said killers can't really use tactics but survivors can't make saves. We all know how much survivors love running behind killers with flashlights. Nothing wrong with the 2v8 it just not much reason to stay for survivors over the normal mode.
Because of the pallet density and the fact Billy can't one-shot, you can juice 4/5 killers in this mode pretty easily unless they pincer you. You don't even need to be the Escapist class to do it, either. I'm not the best survivor but I do extremely well in this mode until the killers gang up on me. Or if there's a Trapper trap in the loop I guess. Most of the time, the killers aren't moving around together in the majority of matches I've played.
The only complaint I have about this mode from the survivor PoV is it feels like Trapper is in every match and he's one of my least favorite killer to play against.
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The incentive is often at 100% for killer when it is enabled, though, and it doesn't stop people from playing survivor.
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What's so bad about playing survivor in this mode?
I'm genuinely curious because survivor isn't really a role I enjoy too much in 1v4, but I find survivor in 2v8 to be considerably more enjoyable.
There's tons of pallets so you can use them freely and don't need to worry that much about preserving them, tons of generators so you don't need to worry about doing the wrong generators and 3-genning yourself, having other people work on a gen with you is actually good for once and not throwing. Killers can't camp and it's hard for them to tunnel. Killers have no regression so you aren't constantly having your gen progress reset.
Beyond that, it's just the regular survivor gameplay experience of looping killers and doing gens, but with a lot of alleviated pain points.
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The queue times for killer is massive because being able to play co-op killer is the most interesting feature of the 2v8 mode.
In terms of how it feels on survivor, I have a much higher escape rate in solo queue 2v8 than in solo queue 1v4. 2v8 honestly reduces a lot of pain points survivor has in my opinion and I would gladly play it more if I could pip from playing it.
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The incredible pallet density is the problem.
I had a great time playing as Huntress and Nurse, but playing Trapper or Wraith was an exercise in extreme frustration, even playing with a friend. Unless I doubled up on a survivor with my ally as them, whoever I was chasing could just run from pallet to pallet and camp it and there's basically nothing I could do about it. God forbid they actually know how to loop and make use of the fact a single loop can have two pallets in it.
Hillbilly was kind of a middle ground between the two. Survivors can't just camp pallets against him but the pallet density is still unpleasant.
Also Wraith's team benefit seems totally pointless in this mode with the current selection of killers. Making your ally undetectable isn't much of a benefit when Huntress has her lullaby, Hillbilly's chainsaw is incredibly noisy, and Nurse teleports and screeches. Only Trapper seems to benefit from it.
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@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767565#Comment_3767565
I was talking more about powers like becoming invisible, placing traps, teleporting around vs watch progress bar go up slightly faster or run fast for 3 seconds.
I think zooming around the map permanently and whacking a survivor that got caught on your buddy's trap is way more fun than the ability to heal a caged survivor a little bit faster and then essentially playing perkless.
Maybe it's because I already play mostly perkless. I only ever run information and anti-tunnel perks. So survivor feels about the same to me.
Also another thing I didn't think of: having a bad team mate or losing someone early in 2v8 is way less punishing. In 1v4, losing a survivor at 3-5 gens basically makes the match unwinnable unless your team plays extremely well and the killer throws hard. Even losing an ally at 2 gens in 1v4 can be very difficult to recover from.
Every killer has basekit Nowhere to Hide, but there's no Distortion rats on the survivor side, either. So you're not stuck in those infuriating situations in solo queue where your ally with no hook states is hiding in a corner avoiding chase with Distortion.
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@Eelanos said:
I feel this should have been fairly predictable. The only thing keeping the killers' queue in check is the survivors' ability to play with friends. You allow people to play a character with super powers with your friends and suddenly no one wants to play the hopeless survivor sitting on a gen for several minutes waiting for their inevitable demise, whose's only power is making progress bars move slightly faster.
This just goes to show that playing survivor isn't really that fun.
When it comes to solo queue, I actually find the 2v8 mode to be much more fun than 1v4 for survivor. Which is odd because I thought it would be really unfun for survivor.
Killers can't camp you, if they tunnel you it's just because you were unlucky or careless, it's hard for them to do obnoxious playstyles which are prevalent in the 1v4 mode like hit & run. There's no gen regression or blocking constantly interfering with your gen progress. No busted add-ons. It's hard for the killers to slug all the survivors to death due to there being so many. Don't need to worry about 3gens due to there being so many generators.
You also don't have to groan and roll your eyes when a survivor gets on a generator with you because it's costing the team efficiency (unless there's 1 gen left, of course). There's so many survivors spread out that working on different gens is impossible anyway.
The 2v8 mode solved every pain point that the game has which usually makes solo queue survivor unfun for me. I would gladly play more 2v8 survivor if I could pip from it.
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@Kuris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767435#Comment_3767435
Apart from the fact it wasn't really copy-pasted was it? Because the Killer cannot see where you were caged, nor can they see when you are taken out of the cage, nor can they stand around your cage because you simply move to another part of the map.
This is how Pyramid Head's cages work, though.
The only difference is that he can hear when you get rescued from a cage. I don't know if killers get the notification in 2v8 mode, I haven't played a killer match yet in it.
But otherwise yeah, Pyramid Head can't see the aura of his cages, and if he manages to find a cage and tries to camp it, it relocates the caged survivor to a different part of the map.
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@Peanits said:
It is not just you. A lot of people are excited to play Killer with a friend for the first time so there is a disproportionately high number of Killers are not enough Survivors to fill each of their lobbies. We've greatly increased the incentive for player Survivor in the meantime to help balance out the queue a little bit, but it's safe to say that Killer queue times will remain longer in 2v8 for at least a little while.
I don't know if you could relay this feedback to the devs, but would it be possible to enable pipping in the 2v8 mode? I would be glad to fill out the survivor queue if it allowed me to work towards my monthly grade rewards.
Castlevania is my dream chapter and I want to bank blood points for it! But I don't have any incentive besides blood points I can spend now to play survivor now that I've finished all of the survivor tome challenges. -
Yes.
This game finally pushed me to play Resident Evil 2 and 3 remakes, the Alan Wake games, as well as the Child's Play franchise. I loved all of them.
I'm planning on playing the Tomb Raider games now as well, even.
To be fair, I was planning on eventually doing all of those things. But they made me more excited to do it.
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Oh, one extra mention, which is mostly just a whinge than a huge issue and just one extra way in which Xenomorph suffers from this event:
One of Xenomorph's "fun" builds is to stack perks with the Self-Destruct Bolt to make it vault extremely fast and catch survivors by surprise.
Meanwhile, one of the survivor powers is to block the vault locations for killer…
So, you know, that kind of sucks. To run a "fun" build so I don't play "sweaty" for the event and then the survivors render my entire build useless with their offering.
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@TheRealConsent said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748446#Comment_3748446
Well, I do personally condone tunnelers that tunnel out of spite and not out of necessity. So, hats off to you for being super chill regardless.
As for a reason, so far I've been very annoyed at the one that hides the survivors scratch marks. Combined with the other ability to remove footsteps/blood/groaning, its a free escape from loops.
Far fetched, but maybe the tunneling happens because people don't count on their chance to find other survivors? But again, it's such a short duration to tunnel just for that, so maybe just unlucky.
Yerah, people are allowed to play the game how they want. Tunneling is a game mechanic. It's on the developers to stop it, not the players to play by made up rules. Sometimes if I'm in a bad mood and a killer tunnels my ally out at like 5 gens, I'll be cross with them in endgame chat, but I keep my frustrations focused on the game and not them as a person. Also I actually enjoy being tunneled most of the time, unless it's by a killer I don't like playing against.
I personally don't tunnel because I think the game is kinda boring if you make it a 3v1 too early.
I can say though that the early tunneling I've encountered in the Twisted Masquerade has been aggressive. People take hits and even downs and the killer keeps going after the unhooked person. It's possible some BM happened to provoke it, but I don't know.
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@TheRealConsent said:
https://youtu.be/HI7FFpVpgRY?t=262
People love to exaggerate how often tunneling happens.
Cry more?
To be fair, I used to agreed with this video and it lined up with my own experiences as a survivor.
But, man, I don't know what it is about this event, but anecdotally, there has been a huge amount of tunneling in my survivor games in the twisted masquerade mode.
Like I'm not even saying stuff like the killer is at 1-2 gens left and they need to get rid of the person on death hook for pressure, I mean quite often it happens when there's 4-5 gens left to go.
I usually bring DS as a precaution and end up not needing it, but I've needed it quite a lot. I'm going to start bringing BT too to protect my allies.
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I was specifically trying to argue against your reasoning for why DS and OTR are flawed. DS soft-counters tunneling and OTR provides a little protection against tunneling but a lot of protection against killers who aren't tunneling but will still favor chasing people with more hook states.
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Just saying: if you are in a situation where DS/OTR would turn off before you can use them, you aren't being tunneled. Tunneling happens straight off the hook and no other time. The rest of the time it's just the survivors misplaying.
Well, that or you just ran the killer for 60 seconds and DS lapsed before you can use it. Good job!
There's a gray area between being a 12 hook andy and gunning for someone straight off the hook and trying to lump all of that in as tunneling is a bit extreme.
Edit: If you really hate being a priority target of the killer because you're closer to death hook than your allies, that actually is what OTR is really good for. The only part about OTR that turns off when you touch a generator is the endurance. You maintain the aura reading block and silent groans of pain, which means there is no reason why you should get found again unless you're being careless or working on unsafe generators.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747808#Comment_3747808
I get your point but it is still weird. Survivors get a notification when WA affects them. They just have to pay attention. Of cause, in the first few matches they will make mistakes (ignoring the notification, Franklin's, droping the item at the stat ect.). However, as in every other game, players will improve and they will also improve in this way. Paying attention to this also improves them in other parts of the game (Paying attention to the HUD, environment). Also making mistakes is completely normal since they're learning the game. If they don't pay attention or take the time to deny WA value then it's their fault.
I also don't get the point why this combination massacre these players because they get the information. It's not like NOED or Knock Out that often surprise the average players in a mean way.
It's because of solo queue.
First off, to bring up the example I used earlier, people still heal against Legion. Legion has been this way for years and people still haven't figured out not to heal or group up against Legion. People are never gonna learn.
So basically every freaking match now, I have to drop my item the moment I load in. If I see Vecna's stupid face in the bottom of my screen, I sigh and run to the edge of the map (after telling him where I am and making myself oblivious) and leave that item which I might have needed for whatever archive I'm currently doing.
Okay, cool, so I've done the counterplay.
My allies haven't, though. And I have no idea where they've been hit and dropped their items.
So I get chased, or hell I'm just looking for a gen, and - whoops! There's Vecna's face again, the killer sees me, there is nothing I could have done to avoid or predict this.
So time to tell him where I am again and search for my team mate's item and then make myself oblivious and put myself in the corner of the map again, gee this sure is a fun game you guys I am so glad I decided to queue up for survivor today.
But you know, this miserable unfun unintuitive counterplay is fine to stay in the game because a SWF can drop their item at the start and then open coms to be like "Oh killer has Franklins/Weave, put your items in the corner" and now the perk combo is completely useless.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747808#Comment_3747808
What a weird generalization. Any game with as much variance between characters and their accoutrements as this one or your favorite moba/looter shooter/hero shooter is always going to have stuff that's more effective against less invested players. Legion for example is way less effective vs good survivors because they're naturally doing their counter: splitting up on gens and not healing. Because that's just good play and they are good players. Conversely something like unforseen is going to be better vs more casual players because it pushes against their natural behavior: run as soon as you hear the terror radius.
You can't hamstring your entire game for the sake of one or the other. Weave attunement has clear and easy counterplay. If someone doesn't want to invest themselves in the game that's fine, but they shouldn't expect the game to cater to them. That seems pretty fair to me. More than fair, to people who put in the effort to learn in the ins and outs of the thing.
Theoretically MMR evens out these discrepancies but what are ya gonna do
I'm not sure we should be using infamously hated killer Legion as an example of what this game should strive for in the future.
But this is something I don't get. I agree with you that Franklins/WA has clear and easy counterplay. So why do you care if it gets nerfed? Hmm? What's it matter to you? Why you wanna defend it so bad?
If BHVR nerfed… I don't know, Territorial Imperative because they don't like the fact that Demogorgon can abuse it to remotely camp the basement, I'm not gonna be jumping to defend it. It's a bad perk that I don't use before the nerf and it would continue to be a bad perk that I don't use after the nerf. The only people who use it want to use it for a playstyle that's extremely unfun to play against and basically only works against uncoordinated teams, so good riddance I say, keep it in the garbage where it belongs until they can think of a total rework for it.
The reason wouldn't happen to be because Franklins/Weave actually is extremely effective against the majority of the playerbase and so it actually is good in most games and you don't want it to go away, right?
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@MrT1412 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747616#Comment_3747616
It can be strong without needing to be changed. There's plenty of perks in the game that are clearly strong and impactful but nobody reasonable would suggest changes to them. I think WA+FD will just be like that eventually.
Franklins + WA is fine in the same way a lot of pubstomper characters are fine in other games.
People say they're fine because high level players have no problem against them. While ignoring the fact they absolutely massacre low-to-average skill players.
So if something is bad against good players but overpowered against average players, I firmly believe that's something that's broken at its core and probably needs looking at.
Or maybe my visceral hatred for Franklins is coloring my view and I would very much like to stop seeing it every other match.
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
This perk combo's fine, we have perks that do what items do and sometimes better in some cases, and I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather see this combo than quad slowdown.
Hell no. I'd rather play against 4 slowdown than Franklins let alone Franklins + WA.
It's an emotional response but getting hit with Franklins tilts the HELL out of me. Like I have to physically resist the urge to DC on the spot.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747748#Comment_3747748
Thanks for busting in with this random accusation? There is no us vs them in my post. It's saying BHVR doesn't have any antipathy toward whatever side. It doesn't make any sense for them to. I'm saying they do stuff in a random ass way and events swing back and forth. Which again, is not advocating for any "side", it's just the shape of things.
That event was definitely survivor favored because portal town was an easy escape to a land where all killers are m1 killers, not to mention the visual effects being so intense you couldn't tell whether survivors actually went in half the time. If someone went into any of those I was just dropping chase by the end of the event. Not worth the effort.
Cool. I also never said that, so I don't know why you replied to me by saying I had a victim complex. Maybe you meant to reply to rha?
Edit: Nevermind, I thought it was a reply to me because it had my text in the opening of the quote. I apologize.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747718#Comment_3747718
What's with the victim complex? BHVR does not have an arbitrary grudge against 80% of their playerbase. Did you conveniently forget about the last event, where survivors could run to a place where killer powers don't work and pop out halfway across the map? Did you forget the snowmen that gave an extra health state? Come on. Killers got too much to play with this event but it's not like it's a consistent thing.
Why does everything need to be an us-vs-them thing with you people?
I said the event sucks as survivor and the BP incentive is stuck at 150% because nobody wants to play that, and then on top of that for some reason killers are playing way meaner than what is normal for my experience.
The snowmen giving an extra healthstate was BS, but that was also years ago, they got rid of that last Christmas. Meanwhile, last year's anniversary event was criticized as being killer-favored, and they somehow made it even worse now with the remote hook feature.
I actually had trouble remembering what you were talking about with the other thing, until I realized you meant the Halloween event. The problem with the Halloween event wasn't really that it favored one side or the other, it was that only the side which was winning could afford the space to interact with the event. I got plenty of free downs in there on survivors who got caught out by the fact I had no terror radius, as well as popping out directly next to survivors who now had no chance to react to my presence. I fell victim to both of those things as survivor, too.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747699#Comment_3747699
Are you saying you can't get a match for the event as killer? My queue's are nearly instant at any time of the day as killer for the event.
I want that BP incentive. Killer is my preferred role but I generally play whichever side has a 100% incentive in place. I like playing survivor, too, but survivor really hasn't been much fun this event.
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This has been the least fun I've had playing DBD since I started playing in 2021.
The real problem is that they made the event opt-in this year.
Which means an almost constant 150% BP incentive for survivors, since no survivors want to play a mode which makes it harder for them to win.
I've barely gotten to play killer all event, which is my preferred role.
Worse, for some reason all of the killers in this event mode play way nastier than in the normal mode. I actually never thought tunneling was that widespread, but oh god is it ever in this event. Plus killers going out of their way to be as mean as possible.
Like I played vs a basement Trapper today who didn't bring an event offering. He slugged for the 4k at 4 gens, and once all of my team mates DCed because nobody wants to willingly subject themselves to that, he just went afk and let the bots bleed out, which meant he only signed up to make human opponents miserable and didn't actually care about BP or grades and lost interest once he no longer had anybody to frustrate.
That's the most egregious match I've had, but man there has been a huge amount of early tunneling this event. I normally bring DS or OTR as a precaution as survivor and usually end up not needing it, but I've DSed so many killers this event it's insane.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744327#Comment_3744327
No, if survivors actually counter the Weave attunement, then Franklin's is useless. It doesn't do anything, if survivors drop their items themselves.
Which is exactly my problem with Franklins/Weave.
Not that it's overpowered, that they are obnoxious, badly designed perks which grow in strength based on how little communication and game experience survivors have and should likely be changed for that reason alone. Anything which disproportionately preys on less skilled or solo queue survivors is not a good design since killer doesn't really need any extra help against those people.
Franklins kind of needs to stay the way it is because it's consuming the design space for a perk which forces survivors to drop their items, but in my opinion it's a lot like Knock Out in that it's an unhealthy, mean-spirited perk at its core and they should try to avoid making other perks which synergize with it.
That being said, even against a SWF with good communication, bringing this combo causes slowdown in the form of forcing them to run to the edges of the map to dispose of their items and it still does the job of denying medkits and flashlights or just making them extremely inconvenient and risky to use.
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It works. Freddy has a surprising amount of build variety.
That being said, if you wanna go the impossible skillcheck route, you're just better off going for Doctor.
Freddy is best when synergized with perks that lets him take advantage of the one real edge he has, which is map mobility and the ability to begin a new chase instantly after finishing another one.
Friends Till The End and Barbecue & Chili are both good for that. But my favorite is actually Thrilling Tremors + the new Z Block.
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I definitely have seen significantly more tunneling than normal during this event.
It was actually fairly uncommon for me. Maybe once in every 5-6 games. Now I feel lucky to have a game where I can actually enjoy myself.
I actually enjoy being tunneled personally but when my ally gets tunneled, they probably aren't ready for it and then I'm stuck in a 3v1 at 4 gens and it's just an enormous waste of time.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744163#Comment_3744163
If you think this comment was rude and condescending, you didn't read my comments to opposite of smart opinions.
Just because he didn't agree with you, it doesn't mean he is rude. He just wrote how it works and he is right.
He did agree with me, though.
The build gives value against medkits.
We're not actually disagreeing.
The thing is he's being disingenuous in his reply.
He said: "If a Killer sacrificing half of their perks for aura reading that can be almost completely negated"
So I pointed out that he was kind of downplaying the fact Franklins is a pretty decent perk and the build is very strong in general against medkits.And then instead of acknowledging that or giving a counter argument, he tried to play it off like he didn't just say that the build is useless.
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743927#Comment_3743927
Yes, perks are supposed to give you value. Especially if you have to sacrifice half of your slots instead of bringing stronger stuff. Thats how it works.
Yes. And since you get a lot of value out of this perk combo against medkits, that means it's a good perk combo against medkits. That's how it works.
Isn't it fun to be rude and condescending to people for no reason?
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@KazRen said:
I'm still struggling to understand why some people say it's too strong with franklins. Yeah it's a good combo but the survivor can just put the item in a corner or not bring an item at all and then the killer has 2 perks.
The "it's fine because it doesn't do anything if the survivor didn't bring an item" argument falls apart when you flip the script.
Imagine survivors had a perk that punished - not just denied, but actively served as a detriment towards the killer for bringing addons.
The excuse of "it doesn't do anything if the killer doesn't bring addons" is just as silly.
Items/addons are literally the only things of value we get for BP.
It also punishes survivors for interacting with chests, which again if you flipped it around would be a bit like punishing the killer for playing nice and not tunneling/camping. Survivors are actually doing something besides a generator, I do not want to punish them for that.
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@Sava18 said:
Permanent mini-game area denial vs a spread of power's that on their own aren't strong whatsoever? Don't see the comparison.
Mage Hand is definitely a little too good right now.
I don't know why they didn't just make the version which breaks pallets for him the baseline version. That anniversary power is fun and having it as a killer power would be neat. It would still lead to some guaranteed hits, but only on dropped pallets.
The current version is absurdly hard to balance. Both picking up pallets and blocking them from being dropped for a short time have such a thin margin for balance between "guaranteed hit for Vecna" and "totally useless if not actively detrimental for Vecna"
On the PTB it was the latter, and now it's the former. -
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743842#Comment_3743842
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742587#Comment_3742587
Trickster got a permanent, unconditional 5% haste buff that didn't completely annihilate the game. Base kit too, so doesn't even take up a perk slot.
Saying that these things are conditional or temporary is just cherry picking.
I was extremely confused until I realized you meant that Trickster got rebalanced from a 110% speed killer to a 115% speed killer.
So they decided Trickster didn't need the nerfed movespeed which is usually given out to compensate for a strength the killer has elsewhere (Huntress's ranged attacks, Hag's teleportation, Chucky's small hitbox, etc) and moved him up to an average killer movespeed.
They did not take a 115% movespeed killer and move them above the norm permanently.
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The overwhelming majority of the reason is aesthetics and lack of baggage.
People hated SM before she even got fully announced. People hated a blurry screenshot which got leaked of her. People hated her backstory. People just hate her. Then add on to that she specialized in one of the worst killer metas the game has ever seen and she's still not very fun to play against after her rework.
Vecna looks cool, is voiced by a beloved voice actor, comes from a popular IP, ironically fits the horror aesthetic better than her despite not being from a horror IP.
Also Vecna doesn't reduce your movespeed or increase his own with the push of a button, aside from that one addon for Mage Hand. He also doesn't instantly shut down an entire jungle gym like SM does. Or have SM's tracking pips where once you have one on you there's no way to get it off except to go down or intentionally let yourself get injured.
But also don't get it twisted, I don't think people are necessarily happy with how good Mage Hand is right now. Or that a properly spaced Flight of the Damned deals damage with no chance to react or counterplay.
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I can't believe people are still out here trying to defend Made For This or that people don't understand the difference between a permanent 3% speed boost that you are guaranteed to get value out of unless instadowned, versus killer speed boost perks which only last a couple of seconds and usually have a niche trigger condition like "injure a survivor and then vault a window"
Anyway, on the subject of this thread: the Weave Attunement/Franklins combo is technically fine but absurdly annoying.
I don't think it's good design to weaponize the items survivors paid BP to bring into the match with them.
It's also less effective the better the survivors are, which is also not great design.
It will demolish a group of solo queue survivors who can't call it out to each other and may not even know what to do about it or what that little icon in the corner of their screen means. You know, the people you don't even need the combo to beat in the first place.
But it's totally useless against a SWF that checks for it at the start of a match or calls it out. You know, the people you need every edge you can get to beat.
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@PreorderBonus said:
If a Killer sacrificing half of their perks for aura reading that can be almost completely negated is too much for you, maybe you should stick to playing against the Killer bot instead of online.
It's not like Franklins is a bad perk.
Bring this combo against a lobby full of medkits and it'll get you a lot of value.
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@Ginnypig said:
Do you survivors ever stop complaining at all? Are you really missing 4 slowdown perks every single game?
As someone who plays both sides but prefers the killer role, I would legitimately rather play against 4 slowdowns than Weave Attunement, personally.
4 slowdowns is stronger, absolutely.
However, when the killer runs 4 slowdowns, I don't have the item I spent blood points on to bring into the match get knocked out of my hands by Franklins and then used as a beacon to give the killer aura reading in that area unless I'm willing to head back over there and pick it back up and put it into a corner of the map.
It is legitimately one of the most "feel bad" perk combos I've personally played against in my 3000 hours.