Zakon05
Zakon05
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They just needed to change the AFK crow logic so that only working on a generator resets the timer. At the moment you can just pick up/put down an item to reset the timer.
Actually, they might be doing just that. I think this change might be targeted at hackers. At the moment, hackers can hold killers hostage and force them to DC by making themselves unhookable.
I don't know if it will be enough, the hackers could just complete 1 generator every 10 minutes and still hold the killer hostage for 50 minutes.
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@Pulsar said:
????
[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge time to .35 seconds(was .2)[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge sound volume for survivors[CHANGE]Reduced missed attack cooldown time to 2.5 seconds(was 3)[CHANGE]Increased the Killer Instinct range when exiting a tunnel to 16m(was 12m)[CHANGE]Decreased the time it takes to get out of a tunnel to 1.5 second(was 2.25)[CHANGE]Increased amount of fire needed to burn The Xenomorph out of crawler mode to 175(was 100)[CHANGE]Increased delay before the Xenomorph’s heat starts to dissipate to 15s(was 1)[CHANGE]Decreased the Xenomorph’s heat dissipation rate to 2/s(was 25)[CHANGE]Adjusted several Add-Ons to align with these changes.
So, they made his Tail Attack charge longer, which is nice because it was pretty much unreactable.
They reduced his cooldown, which is a buff. They increased his KI range, which is a buff. They made him exit his tunnel faster, which is a buff. They made it more difficult to burn him, which is a buff. They made it take longer for heat to dissipate, which is a nerf.
I'm no Xeno expert, but it seems like you just focused entirely on the fact that he got nerfed twice and ignored all the other buffs
Yes, there are some nice changes here.
The reduced penalty for missing the tail is also nice. Especially since the tail is much more reliable at destroying turrets, and destroying a turret with the tail counts as a missed tail attack.
The increased resistance to burning is also nice. If my math is right, it will be more resistant to being burned basekit than it currently is with the Emergency Helmet addon. I don't know what they're going to do to the Emergency Helmet.
The time it takes to get out of the tunnels will make it feel more fluid to play, though I don't really consider it to be a big deal as it is.
But you have to understand just how big a deal the nerfs are in comparison.
At the moment, good Xenos are rarely burned out of their power as it stands already. Increasing the resistance to the fire won't change that. The way turrets are used by good survivors, and understand that they will still be used like this, is to place them in loops where they act like protection hits. Survivors who know how to play against Xeno will be setting up the turrets in such a way that they can be chained together by a survivor holding W between loops.
Even with a good reaction time, the absurdly slow rate at which you recover from the burn now ensures you will eventually be forced out of your power by survivors who use them like this. Even with good reaction time, you'll still get slightly burned each time you need to destroy a turret.
Effectively, these changes do nothing to help survivors who are already bad at playing against Xeno, since they won't chain the turrets together or know how to set them up properly. It will make good survivors significantlly more effective than they already are against Xeno.
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It was a common debate as to who was better, Nemesis or Xenomorph.
It's not really a debate anymore. After Nemesis's buffs and Xenomorph's nerfs, Nemesis will definitely be the stronger killer.
Also they still haven't done anything to change the fact that chest offerings reduce the number of tunnels.
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@Cypherius said:
That is a great patch.
I especially like the Xeno changes. Might need some further tuning but it shows that the devs understand the design issues of the character across the different levels of play.
Speaking as someone who has played Xenomorph almost every day since it came out, at least once a play session on average.
They only addressed the new player problems with Xenomorph, and they have severely nerfed it against good survivors.
Xenomorph is particularly effective against bad and inexperienced survivors. I have gotten lots of complaints about Xeno being uncounterable due to the turrets being so ineffective at burning it out of its power when the Xeno player knows what they're doing. The tail is also extremely difficult to dodge on reaction, bordering on you needing to predict when the Xenomorph is likely going to try to tail attack and begin dodging pre-emptively.
This results in bad survivors thinking the turrets are a waste of time.
However, good survivors know the turrets will rarely burn a good Xeno out of their power. They set them up as distractions in chase. They place them in ideal locations in loops where it would be most useful to have an ally come in and take a protection hit.
Xeno did need some extra resistance to being burned, there's a reason why Emergency Helmet is often regarded as a mandatory addon. But that rate at which the xeno recovers from being burned has to be a typo. That burn effect on the UI is distracting and causes overstimulation issues on some players. It's effectively going to be a semi-permanent effect on the Xenomorph's UI if that goes through.
I sometimes use the Ovomorph and Ripley's Watch addons for a "chill Xeno" build where I play it mostly as an M1 killer and ignore the turrets. I might end up using that build more seriously if this goes through, because the turrets will be far too effective in the hands of good survivors to be worth the time and distance lost in chase to break them, especially when the survivor I'm chasing is just going to be using the extra space to run to the next turret.
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@TheArbiter said:
I mean it's not that surprising, his power is entirely controlled by the survivors
Edit: Gonna downvote me for saying turrets kick you out of his power lol?
Right now this is wrong. If you're a good Xenomorph player, the turrets should rarely be knocking you out of your power. The turrets are basically the equivalent of a survivor running in and taking a protection hit for you. They only become threatening if they're placed in clusters, otherwise you should be able to tail strike them before they burn you out of your power.
If the PTB changes go live, though… this will be a lot more accurate.
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Popping in to confirm this just happened to me as well, also on Dracula.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876347#Comment_3876347
-Increase their gen times
-Can't stack same perks
-Can't bring in tools and have to use chests in the match to get tools or limiting what level of tools then bring into the match, like maybe just brown with no add-ons so that Killers can't determine who's SWF and who's not.
All of those wouldn't impact SoloQ gameplay as Surv and would just impact SWF solely. Buffing Survs just buffs SWF and nerfing Survs completely obliterates SoloQ. Likewise, Killer buffs impact SWF very little while destroying SoloQ and Killer nerfs impact SoloQ very little while buffing SWF a lot. So it's literally only logical that a targeted mechanic change for SWF is needed to compensate for their comms and the plethora of information and perks that they receive just by being on comms, whether each SWF plays with comms or not is irrelevant.
Three easy solutions to add to a PTB and see how it's received and what the vibe is, but really then Killers/Maps/Perks would have to be rebalanced as currently everything has been getting adjusted to deal with the current insanely OP SWF's. Which again, has been ruining SoloQ to near unplayable levels causing DC's and "going next" because all Killers are so titled that they do nothing but the optimum of unfun for Survs in order to have an enjoyable match for them. It's also been nerfing all Maps and features into bland versions of what they used to be.
The best part is, if SWF was nerfed with what I suggested above, then new mechanics for camping/tunneling/slugging could be implemented as Killers shouldn't really be doing any of that and the nerf of SWF would remove the reason it's in the game in the first place, which is to combat SWF.
SWF groups that don't thrive off bullying the Killer wouldn't be affected by any of this either, they'd still enjoy playing with their friends. Killers wouldn't be so so so justly angry and then would only have to deal with their skill instead of unfair circumstances that SWF bring currently, that cause all the nasty gameplay SoloQ gets the brunt of.
Better game for all.
Okay, I'm going to be a little mean here, but I think it needs to be said.
This game is not that serious. A lot of people regard it as a casual game. They just wanna play with their friends. Getting a PENALTY for playing with their friends is an absolutely absurd suggestion and will absolutely kill the game.
This discussion is laughable. Killers, even low tier killers, are favored to win against solo queue. And your answer is not to help solo queue but to drag SWF down to their level?
Like I'm sorry you lose sometimes but maybe it's not because you're facing a SWF, it's because you're just playing badly. SWFs don't have an amazingly higher escape rate than solo queue. And it's always hilarious when playing solo queue in a group that knows what it needs to be doing so well that it feels like we're a SWF, and then the killer whines at us for being a SWF. Like no man, we just played better than you and you lost, it happens.
The worst thing that could happen for people like you is for them to nerf SWF because then you lose the easy out to protect your ego.
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Hi, I am a Sadako and Chucky player. They're not my mains but I play them both a fair bit (both prestige 25 atm).
The Sadako rework (both of them) were 100% necessary. Original Sadako was extremely weak unless you did the obnoxious Slugako strat. Sadako 2.0 was one of the most easy, flowcharty, and braindead pubstompers I have ever seen in any game, that was also really annoying to play against (if you think it was "just interact with tapes" you never played against one who knew what she was doing). She's perfectly fine now, she's a macro play killer which requires some actual thought from the Sadako to play well, no longer as weak as she was when she launched.
Original launch Chucky was also not okay. After they got rid of original scamper, he was still the easiest to play top tier in the game. His short size mindgamed at loops for him, his pseudo-stealth aspects made him difficult to play against in solo queue, and his power was ridiculously hard to dodge bordering on you needing to hope the Chucky was bad more than you actually could dodge it reliably. And then if he used Rat Poison, what little bit of counterplay his power had was reduced even further.
The second nerf Chucky got was excessive but people really overstate how bad he is now. He's no longer top tier for sure but he still does more than fine against average survivors.
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@Roco45 said:
Most people aren't ready for an actual discussion about it and BHVR sure aren't ready to actually do something about it. First step is to stop blaming Killers for it and look beyond that at what could possibly be causing them to camp/tunnel/slug. Better yet, go play Killer as much as you play Surv and go see what could possibly lead to Killers doing all of that.
Second step is to acknowledge that there are three classes of play in this game; Killer, SWF, and SoloQ. It's not Killer vs Surv, it's Killer vs SWF with SoloQ getting caught in the crossfire, leading to all the issue you described above.
SWF need to be nerfed and then everything else needs to be rebalanced around that, it would solve almost every single issue this game has.
Nerfing people for playing with friends is a catastrophically bad idea.
Solo queue needs buffs. Like adding the portion of Kindred which allows you to see where your allies are while someone is on hook basekit, and implementing the anti-facecamp meter into the UI. Things which wouldn't really help SWF that much but would help bridge the gap between solo queue and SWF.
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"Xeno boring, hit for free."
-the last guy I chewed out for doing this in EGC after I quit the match out of pity for his allies.
Man what is with modern gamers? It's like y'all don't wanna admit you're mad at video games so you use this pathetic "it's booooring" smokescreen. Just say you're mad, you're not fooling anybody.
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The DBD community once again showing that they have no idea what "unplayable" and "unviable" mean.
It's like y'all still think we're living in the era of early DBD with infinites, old Dead Hard, etc.
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If survivors bring oak offerings and sabo builds and then complain about slugging, they can be safely ignored.
I don't really think oak offerings should be a thing, it's true. They're one of those things that are likely to put the killer on alert and make them play nastier. It's why I don't run them even when I really want to win, it's just going to make the killer play meaner and have almost no effect on anything since you need several of them to actually be an inconvenience.
But they're not part of why people complain about slugging. Nobody with a brain should be complaining about slugging after incentivizing the killer to slug. It'd be like bodyblocking with your off-hook protection and then complaining when you get tunneled. Which does happen but those people are dumb, too. -
@Nazzzak said:
Mostly slugged for the 4k when one of the last two survivors. I'd say at least 80% of the time now since the Finisher Mori came out. I've had just one (1) singular killer give me hatch in that time.
I haven't really noticed an uptick in this behavior since the finisher mori. People do it about as much as they always have in my experience. This actually started to become common for me about a year ago and I'm not sure why.
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Any time I'm 2nd to last survivor and didn't bring Plot Twist.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868359#Comment_3868359
My best guesses on the devil's advocate:
1: They don't want to give any ground on a no refund policy. None of us actually own what we buy, we have virtual copies until one day the servers close, and they don't want to create a legal argument for future refund possibilities.
But this seems like such an extreme situation that it doesn't make sense.
2: There's some detail that isn't revealed related to the country / region / BHVR / license etc that makes a refund impossible from a legal standpoint.
Except if that was true, I would think they would explicitly say 'we can give so and so a refund because of this legal reason'.
There's a possibility they don't want to cast the blame on another party they are still trying to work through, but that seems like an incredibly slim guess.
3: The purchaser tried to avoid the region lock with a VPN or something like that.
Again, I'd expect BHVR to just tell us that if it was true.
In regards to 1: To my understanding, they've removed cosmetics and refunded auric cells in the past. The Resident Evil skins were originally unlinked and people bought just specific pieces of them. They eventually had to link them so they refunded the cells and removed the skins. I can't confirm this, it's just what I heard.
In regards to 2: They aren't refunding money, they're refunding auric cells. Everything is contained within their own ecosystem. The player doesn't buy the skins, they buy the auric cells which they then use on the skins. I find it hard to believe they can't issue a refund in this circumstance.
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Even trying to play devil's advocate as hard as I can to think of a way to rationalize this, I can't think of a good reason why they can't remove the skins and refund the cells.
This is simply indefensible.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3866924#Comment_3866924
That's all fair, and I'm not saying change that. But my point is, wouldn't it be more accessible and feel a lot more casual if ANY amount of Kills felt more like a win, and escaping through hatch by the skin of your teeth felt more… rewarding? Being the Final Girl should be as celebrated as having even just one Kill, because you can still have a decent horror film even if a lot of people survive the Slasher or the Slasher kills nearly everyone. We don't say Sidney Prescott is less of a Final Girl in Scream 2 where almost all her friends die, so why is that the case here? And we don't say Ghostface is less of a Killer because his kill count in Scream 6 is lower than in all the other Scream movies, so why is only 1 Kill even considered a loss here? If we're talking about the game's spirit, then low kill and escape counts should also matter as those can still make a good Slasher horror experience just fine.
Every amount of Kill or Escape should, theoretically, be therefore considered winning. I don't see why that's not the case. And lorewise, it just makes sense for a lot of hooks to be a similar wincon, because the intent of the hooks is to create misery for the Entity to feed on, and also you can literally pip up by 8hooking and letting people go anyway even if you win the round. I have Killer Main friends who do that all the time just to vibe because they are casual.
Why are these alternative wincons not considered if the Devs truly want this game to be casual? It doesn't harm anyone who wants their wincon to be a 3-4k or a 3-4 escape doing this. All it does is help people who don't want to play that way, feel more included. Shouldn't we want more inclusion and more people to play?
The game kinda already does what you're suggesting for killers.
If you get anything better than 0 kills, you get a Brutal Killer message and the jingle that plays when you had a successful game.
The MMR is just an invisible number running in the background, and realistically all it's there to do is to protect babies and super casuals from players who would absolutely destroy them. You would have to actually do external research to figure out what happens when you get a kill.
People don't settle for 1 kill because it feels bad to only get one kill. I've gotten 8 hook 0 kill games and they don't feel like I did well in them despite the fact getting 8 hooks without killing anyone is hard to do against good survivors.
I mean the game (and most reasonable people) consider the killer to have definitively won the match at 3 kills, but you still have people who drag games out slugging for the 4k while complaining about hatch as being a free win for the survivors, because those players don't think the killer wins unless all of the survivors are dead, regardless of what the MMR says.
Edit: By the way, to clarify, I'm not "defending" tunneling in this post, so much as I view it as a necessary evil since sometimes killers have to do it, and I think people who advocate for trying to rework the game around spreading hooks are lost in the sauce and have lost perspective on the fact this game is about ruthless slasher villains. -
I don't see survivors giving up in a 3v1 as a problem unless the game is still potentially realistically winnable, like if there's 1-2 gens left to do.
Survivors giving up extremely early on either due to rage because they just got outplayed, or they just don't like the killer they're playing against, is the issue. If any survivors choose to die on hook after that happens, I don't blame them. I do the same.
They just need to remove the ability to attempt self-unhooks without a perk like Slippery Meat or Deliverance or if the anti-camp meter is full. There's no reason to keep it in the game. Random self-unhooks can be hype for survivors, but conversely they can feel like total BS as killer. And most of the time the only reason people are trying to self-unhook is to expedite their own death, so it causes far more harm than those random hype moments are worth.
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@LockerLurk said:
The problem is, the game fundamentally rewards winning at all costs, because the only way a win counts is if YOU escape (not even the team) or if the Killer 3-4ks. The Killer is, literally, rewarded for playing super ruthless and tunnelling and pushing for a 3-4k every time. Because that is what the game says a "win" is. It's also what the community says a "win" is. This holds true for Survivors as well, genrush happens because the game says a Survivor win is ONLY when you escape through the gates.
Is this in the spirit of the game? I don't think it is. I think it's time for a broader win condition definition, as well as a much easier way to earn emblems so it doesn't feel like you have to dominate to get anything done or anything of value. Everyone likes to win; if BHVR wants this game to be casual it needs to be more accepting of casual wincon definitions like 8-hooking, doing all the totems, going for flashlight blinds, etc.
Ironically, I felt a lot more like I was still encouraged to try again when we had that bug a few years ago where the defeat sound was the same as the win sound.
It absolutely is in the spirit of the game.
Not only was it intended, but also thematically it's a slasher movie simulator. What slasher movie villain would try to space out their victims to make sure everyone has an equal opportunity for them to chase them? It's only because that happens to be the least frustrating thing to play against that people insist on that.
If casuals pick up the game, they're going to want to kill the survivors, most likely while playing whichever licensed character brought them into the game. The idea of spacing out hooks is unintuitive and doesn't make any sense with what this game is trying to achieve. It's only people who are fully invested in the game who care about spacing out hooks.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858818#Comment_3858818
So we may have missed something at this point and want to be clear on everything. This thread was originally about slugging for the 4k and how some of it is part of the survivors fault for not coming to the slugs rescue correct? Its now become about 2 survivors hiding and waiting for 1 to die so the other gets hatch?
I'm kinda surprised nobody else has questioned this because it's definitely the moment that's left me scratching my head.
Oh well. Until BHVR implements a systemic fix for this problem, I'll just continue to not do it on killer and bring Plot Twist on survivor so I can incentivize the killer to pick me up if I'm one of the last two.
Tbagging on hatch? Really? That's what you're worried about? I'm at 3500 hours and I rarely see that. Why do you even care, they're popping off because they won a coin toss, it's pathetic and laughable.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858066#Comment_3858066
needs to be an extremely strong chase killer, because he has one of the poorest macro presences in the game. If he doesn't get fast downs he loses, since fast downs are all he has to work with.
Slightly off-topic, but I feel like this is the perfect description of both Chucky and other killers, and it is easily the worst kind of killer design we have.
Don't know if I agree.
Several other killers also fall into the category of having poor map presence and needing to get fast downs for presssure, and I like playing against most of them. in fact several of them are among my favorites to play in the game. Huntress, Leatherface, Myers, Pyramid Head, Deathslinger, Doctor.
It's really just, like… Clown and Trickster who aren't fun to play against to me. Especially Clown.
I'm mixed on Chucky himself. I don't really mind Chucky so much as the kind of players who were attracted to his combination of ease of use and power.
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Tunneling and slugging isn't any more prevalent now than it's ever been in my experience.
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Not sure if "4-man SWF beats low tier killer with 1 perk" is actually a problem worth worrying about.
It's called a challenge, it's not supposed to be easy to do.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858053#Comment_3858053
Its equally an offence to hide forever avoiding the objectives so if they did report that survivor to bhvr they would be shooting themselves in the foot as bhvr would also see that they have been holding the game hostage.
I reported the 2 survivors who held me hostage and I don't know if BHVR ever did anything about it.
The thing is it's much much harder to prove survivors are holding the game hostage than it is to prove the killer and another survivor are teaming. All you gotta do is take a quick video clip of it happening and send it in. Much harder to do when survivors are hiding and refusing to progress the objective.
Either way both are against the rules. It's just that if the hatch was removed as a mechanic, it's basically the only option the survivor would have. That or just walk up to the killer and wait to die.
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Killers slugging for the 4k without knowing where the final survivor is.
It's the only thing that truly bothers me.
Don't care about camping. Don't care about tunneling. Don't care about genrushing. Don't care about flashlights or bully squads. Don't care about t-bagging. Don't even care about slugging for pressure.
Just don't leave people on the ground for minutes at a time because you want a 4th kill in a game you already won, it's so unnecessary and inconsiderate.
And for that matter I also don't mind killers bleeding people out specifically to be mean. When that happens I'm just like "oh okay" and watch youtube on my other monitor. Somehow that annoys me less, because knowing that they're intentionally trying to be rude means I can just ignore it.
Something about that one specific scenario bothers me because feeling like the person has no consideration for other people whatsoever annoys me a lot more. At least with the people trying to be rude I know they are still aware there is a person behind the controls whose time they're wasting.
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@AlexXHunter44 said:
There's nothing wrong with current Chucky. His mains are just Nad they have to actually think instead of getting a guaranteed hit bc power go brrrr.
Chucky needs to be an extremely strong chase killer, because he has one of the poorest macro presences in the game. If he doesn't get fast downs he loses, since fast downs are all he has to work with.
I do agree that he was a bit too easy to play. His biggest problem to me has always been that he needs to put in a fraction of the effort of other top tier killers for similar rewards, which tended to attract a lot of unsavory players who just wanted easy wins.
But this nerf hasn't made him any less easy to play, he's just less lethal. They did nothing to increase his skill floor.
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@danielmaster87 said:
He was never fun to play. I haven't really played him since the first week he came out. Everyone has been overrating his strength since the beginning.
Hens's top tier Spirit vs Chucky showcase seems to suggest otherwise.
I do think he's really fun, though. I always wanted to play him more, but I know a lot of survivors hate him and I don't like making other people upset.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858025#Comment_3858025
I don't think the hatch offers the killer any protection, all it does is activate egc when closed and gives survivors a reason to hide imo. The only advantage the hatch has is that it makes survivors hiding for eternity happen sooner (at 2 survivors left instead of 1) this is handy as killer as there is another survivor that can and often will rat out the other guy. This can't be done if there is 1 survivor left.
By "rat" do you mean accidentally expose their location or intentionally?
Because never ever ever work with a survivor trying to rat out their ally. Even if you think it's justified.
That is considered teaming and if the survivor they helped you find knows that and knows how to submit a report to BHVR, you get suspended.
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The hatch exists for your protection as the killer as well as offering the final survivor a last chance at escape.
If the hatch wasn't a thing, the 4th survivor has no real hope of escaping. But they can waste your time by playing hide-and-seek. You really don't want that. A survivor who doesn't want to be found is impossible to find without aura reading. There are lots of ways to keep the AFK crows away.
I was held hostage in a match once on Swamp for 30 minutes by two survivors who decided to get back at me for winning by making it impossible to find them rather than progressing the game. Do you really want to put up with that every time there's 1 survivor left but the gens aren't done?
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@Nazzzak said:
Oh absolutely. Competitive folk don't like when their opponents energy matches their own. That doesn't feed the ego. When those folk say they want a separate competitive mode, what they mean is they want their competitive opponents to use that mode. They certainly won't.
It's not competitive players. Competitive players want to play against other good players and be challenged. Winning effortlessly all the time isn't fun. This is why comp players in this game tend to either play in custom matches with other like-minded people, or they play pubs with self-imposed restrictions like M1 only Trapper or other challenges.
The kind of people who are asking for a casual mode in this game are the toxic casuals. The people who want to win most of the time but don't want to put forth the effort necessary to actually do that. So they want to go up against people who are either worse than them or trying less hard than them. Because anyone who tries harder than them is, of course, a toxic sweaty tryhard.
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Like in the original iteration, I prefer playing solo queue survivor 2v8 over 1v4.
On the downside, you have to play against Nurse/Spirit, Nurse/Blight, or Blight/Spirit duos.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837091#Comment_3837091
"More second chances are why the change was made"
Because as typical, BHVR's answer to making the game more fun for survivors is to make it LESS fun for killers. Not quite sure how they feel that's the best route, but I can assure them they are wrong.
Yes.
Because it's a PvP game. Generally speaking, what's more fun for your opponent is less fun for you.
In the original 2v8 mode, survivor gameplay was purely looping and generator efficiency. Rescuing allies with flashlights and pallets is one of the most fun things you can do on survivor and it was just totally absent from the mode.
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@KerJuice said:
Does anyone know why the turrets sometimes fail to kick it out of crawler mode? I see it getting burned, and hear it screaming- yet it still stays crawling.
You will not kick Xeno out of his crawler mode most of the time, if the Xeno player is experienced. Survivors thinking turrets will hard counter Xeno is the biggest mistake most survivors seem to have when playing against Xenomorph.
I am a Xeno main and I have a very fast reaction time to the presence of turrets at this point. I will tail attack it long before it gets close to breaking me out of my crawler mode. Sometimes, very rarely, I will intentionally let it kick me out of crawler mode if I think I can just run through the fire to M1 and get my tail back after I hook. Otherwise I need to be genuinely surprised by it, or multiple need to be in the same spot.
Think of turrets like an ally running in to body block for you. When you're setting them up, think about where you would most want a survivor to run in and take a hit for you if you were to be in chase at that location. Then put the turret there.
When a turret is present, the xenomorph must deal with it before it can continue chasing you. Most often it will do so with a tail attack, partially because using a basic attack on turrets is kind of buggy and sometimes just doesn't work.
Destroying a turret with a tail attack counts as a missed tail attack. Missing a tail attack puts the xenomorph in cooldown for 3 seconds, during which time they can't vault or attack or break pallets. They're also slowed significantly.
Xenomorph is very much the epitome of the fact this game is a 1v4. You will not "beat" Xeno in chase. But you can delay your inevitable demise long enough that the Xenomorph will lose because your allies do gens faster than it can get downs.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830626#Comment_3830626
This can be a double edged sword because some see the act of Plot Twisting as a grave slight towards them as you are denying them BP, leading to even more toxic matches.
Man, people are lame.
If you don't intend to slug, survivors Plot Twisting and dodging an attack is one of the funniest things you can encounter as a killer.
I'd honestly be more afraid of turning the killer friendly when I wanted a serious match.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
The owner of art said they couldnt be fit into the upcoming chapters list but both parties want to collaberate
IIRC it was the producer, not Damien Leone himself. And the producer only said that BHVR tried to get the license but it didn't work out, and didn't go into any further details than that.
On the bright side, that does mean BHVR at least does want Art in DBD, so at least half of the parties involved want it to happen.
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I really did enjoy it this year when it launched.
Killers had this insane lethality double tap that was fun to try to line up and felt rewarding to pull off, it made me actually want to do the side quest.
In exchange, survivors got the smoke bombs (which I've also been getting a lot of use out of) and an alternate realm they could flee to and leave the killer with the choice of leaving the map and giving up pressure to continue the chase or dropping the chase.
But I'm not exaggerating that this event is tilting me on killer harder than anything in the game's history. I lived through MFT, all forms of Dead Hard, nothing has felt as oppressive as losing an enormous amount of pressure to a smoke bomb stealth play, or a survivor ducking into the void and giving me no good options. And in exchange I get a crappy projectile which misses if it touches literally anything except a survivor that I have to go on a side quest to even use.
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You could just seek out the killer and let them hook you.
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While not as good as a systemic fix, I recommend running Plot Twist.
Slugging is very powerful right now in general. Any time you're about to go down, I recommend using Plot Twist to put yourself in the dying state. It will force the killer to have to pick you up.
It'll most likely dissuade the killer from slugging you for the 4k, too.
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@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824129#Comment_3824129
Mathew said its a chapter
I could be wrong, but he was asked directly as to if it's a chapter and his response was "What do you think?"
Which probably means "I legally cannot say yes but yes"
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@A_T_E said:
I personally hate the idea of FNAF making it into DBD, but then again; they added that goofy "Naughty Bear" skin to Trapper, so BHVR might be okay with trying to get the IP into DBD.
It's no longer a question of if they're okay with it. They confirmed that FNAF will be coming next year.
We don't know if it'll be a chapter or a cosmetic pack, but like… I mean if that IP of all things got added as just a cosmetic pack, let alone after being teased a year beforehand… I mean I almost want it to happen just to watch the meltdown of epic proportions. But let's be honest, it's gonna be a chapter.
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I made a serious post, but now I will make a joke one after having an unfortunate game against a very angry Pyramid Head.
Survivors who perform any of the following actions can be regarded as "bullying the killer"
- Working on generators
- Bodyblocking and taking protection hits for team mates
- Sabotaging hooks
- Flashlight saving allies
- Flashlight blinding at pallets
- Flashlight blinding at windows
- Holding a flashlight
- Existing in the same match as a team mate with a flashlight
- Finding a flashlight in a chest
- Owning a flashlight in real life
- Thinking about flashlights
- Stunning the killer with a pallet
- Saving an ally by stunning the killer with a pallet
- Greeding a pallet
- Pre-dropping a pallet
- Looping the killer for too long
- Holding W instead of looping
- Using the perk Head On
- Using the perk Windows of Opportunity
- Using the perk Dead Hard
- Using the perk Reassurance
- Using the perk Champion of Light
- Using the perk Decisive Strike
- Interacting with any special event activities
- Not interacting with any special event activities
- Hiding for hatch
- Using any survivor gestures within eyesight of the killer
- Using the crouch button within eyesight of the killer
- 99ing the Exit Gate
- Using a map offering
- Using any items or addons of rare or iridescent quality
- Playing the game with friends
- Interacting with killer objects, e.g. disarming Trapper traps or arming Flamethrower Turrets
- Breaking any Hex totems other than Hex: Haunted Ground
- Not escaping the trial within one nanosecond of the Exit Gate being opened
- Escaping the trial
- Picking the Survivor role
Survivors found to be guilty of "bullying the killer" can morally and ethically be treated however the killer pleases, including camping, tunneling, humping, head shaking, hitting on hook, head nodding, and being forced to bleed out.
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Going to open this up with a disclaimer saying, yes, of course, play however you want. Just don't go out of your way to make others miserable.
But there actually is a reason why killers get more criticism than survivors beyond just, survivors being whiny and there being 4 survivors for every 1 killer in a lobby.
Killers can actually progress their win condition without camping or tunneling. You have multiple targets you can chase and put on the hook. It might be sub-optimal to chase the Dwight with 0 hook states over the injured, freshly unhooked Claudette on death hook, but catching Dwight does still put you closer to winning the match.
Most sane players understand that once you're down to 1-2 gens, you gotta get someone out of the match. The reason camping and tunneling is annoying is when the MMR messes up and puts you against survivors who aren't very efficient and tunnel someone out at like 5 generators. This is basically a guaranteed loss for the survivors, making the match boring or frustrating depending on your level of detachment.
Survivors don't really have a lot of options for easing up the pressure on a killer who is struggling like killer does against survivors who aren't playing that well.
You can:
- Work on generators
- Set up for a flashlight save
- Heal/rescue allies
- Open a chest
- Do a dull totem
Working on generators progresses the game's primary objective for survivors across the entire team.
Flashlight saves are actually sub-optimal over working on gens, due to them being a massive time loss if you fail to pull it off, but killers hate being flashlight saved against and often deride survivors who are good at them as being "sweaty" in the same way as survivors do for camping/tunneling killers.
You could rescue and heal, but can't if everyone is healthy, which is likely if the killer is getting rolled.
There is literally no reason to do dull totems unless you have a perk like Inner Strength, and even then you might be giving the killer Pentimento. You could do all 5 to avert NOED, but if the killer actually brought NOED and this happens they probably won't be happy about it.
So that just leaves… what, opening chests?
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823726#Comment_3823726
75% 4k rate when these are included:
- terrible MMR system;
- terribly playerbase mentality that consists of very high give up rate in soloQ (3v1 in early game is catastrophical for most teams), lot of players playing in very selfish manners and lot of players griefing
I haven't played any other game where matchmaking is this much bad and community plays the game in a worse way
75% was the average across all killers. Some killers had 100%. Some had higher than 75%. Some had lower. Some had actually terrible results, like Nemesis for some reason, who only got 30%, which feels like an anomaly since Nemesis is not that bad of a killer. Especially after the buffs, but I don't know if the results were gathered before or after the buffs. Trapper, well known as the worst killer in the game, got a 90% 4k rate by comparison.
Judging things exclusively by 4ks is a terrible idea. The Nurse specialist was only able to maintain a 60% 4k rate. Again, the video only treats 4ks as a "win" and the person who made the video made a special note for Nurse that she got a large number of 3k games when hooking.
Does a 60% win rate on a Nurse specialist versus a 90% winrate on a Trapper specialist sound normal to you?
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822691#Comment_3822691
This experiment has taken experts for each killer. I know a few of them.
A 75% win rate for players close to the 10k against randoms is pretty low.
75% 4k rate.
90% win rate if you include the games where they got 3 kills.
Quite a lot of the killers had 100% 4k rates even with hooking.
Even if you don't consider a 3k to be a killer win, a 75% win rate is insane by the standards of any game. Yes, including this one.
Also it's important to note that the slugging playstyle also produced a similar number of wins, which shows that it's not particularly that much stronger than hooking, if at all. It just produced a higher number of 4ks than 3ks because of the nature of hatch.
If you never hook anyone until all survivors are on the floor, then you will almost always 4k in games which you win, because the last survivor is never given a chance at hatch.
Seriously, go back to that video and add the 3k games to the 4k games. The number of wins is actually higher than in the slugging games.
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There's been some talk among dbd content creators that slugging is stronger than hooking, due to the number of anti-tunnel perks which can be used aggressively against killers who weren't really going for a tunnel. And of course, if you did intend to tunnel, then the perks do their job and make it harder.
The thought process is that slugging has fewer counters and most survivors don't run them, which leads to easier, less stressful and more consistent results for killer.
There was a big experiment over it which got a specialist killer main for every killer in the game involved, and the results were released today.
The video claims to be unbiased and just presenting numbers, but they put their thumb on the scales in one important regard: they're only counting 4ks. A lot of people believe the killer wins the match at 3 kills, due to hatch being RNG.
Basically the overall results across all killers was that like 85% of matches resulted in a 4k if the killer never hooked anyone, while going for hooks was "only" 75%.
But from the same data, in the hook games, around 15% of the matches were a 3k, meaning the 4th got hatch or snuck open the gate, which means that the hooking games had a roughly 90% winrate, compared to the 3% of slugging matches which were a 3k. It also doesn't really account for survivors not expecting this playstyle and thus anti-slugging perks being rare.
And the laughable thing was the intro talking about how rough killers have had it with so many anti-tunnel measures now in the game, immediately followed by talking about a 75% 4k rate in a normal match with hooks.
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It's the transformation cooldown that's making bat form overpowered, not bat form by itself. Though bat form would still be pretty insanely good.
The transformation cooldown when swapping between vampire and wolf forms is barely of note. It only matters for bat form, and the only reason it matters is because it turns bat form into a third chase power on top of being a map traversal tool.
If they put the cooldown back to 5 seconds, bat form would still be one of the best map traversal abilities in the entire game. It doesn't also need to be strong in chase, especially when it eats into the identity of wolf form in being the best option for pursuing survivors out in the open.
Edit: Let me put this in perspective. I am a p100 Freddy. Freddy is pretty widely known as being one of the worst killers in the game, yet paradoxically he always commands a high kill rate. Most people don't know why.
I know why. It's the teleport.
Freddy outputs an insane amount of pressure if the survivors don't take advantage of how poor he is in chase. He just needs Barbecue or Thrilling Tremors and he can bounce between chases instantly. Down a survivor and you're in a new chase with another survivor in literal seconds, 0 downtime.
Everything I just said applies to bat form even without it being good in chase. Except unlike Freddy's teleport, it doesn't turn off after the 5th gen. And it's attached to Dracula, a killer with great chase powers.
Why does an ability like that also need to be useful in chase on a killer with two other chase powers?
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The thing is from what I'm reading is just a list of reasons wolf form is fine. It's only 1/3 of Dracula's kit, it should be a little bit weaker than other killers with similar powers like Demogorgon and Wesker. I'm not even convinced it's worse than Demogorgon's shred in any way other than Demo can zone a bit easier.
I use wolf form frequently and I can't remember the last time I lost a match I didn't intentionally throw because the survivors wanted to pet the doggo, I get use out of it every single game.
It sounds like you just want it to be overpowered like bat form currently is, and anything short of that is too weak.
Also when it comes to trying to use bat form to play around windows/pallets mid-chase, I wasn't even talking about that. I was talking about doing things like shifting bat form → teleporting to a gen you know survivors are working on → shifting back instantly. Or using bat form to teleport to a strong window the survivor is running to in order to cut them off and force them away from it. The fact you can also sometimes use it to play around windows and pallets which are actively being used as part of a chase in a tile is just extra ridiculous.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822216#Comment_3822216
Wolf form is fine. It's got a lot of great applications in chase. I have no problem landing the pounce unless I'm going for super risky ones. It's great for chasing survivors trying to hold W in chase who haven't been injured yet, since healthy survivors are difficult for the bat form to follow. The tracking is great at any tile with a window that you can't hit over with Hellfire, since you get killer instinct when a survivor vaults that lets you know what direction they're running. The boosted speed from the scent orbs can pressure survivors to drop the pallet earlier than they want.
Im sorry but the Wolf form is far from fine.
If the survivor is holding W, even if its not injured, Bat form is still miles better. You can clearly hear footsteps and see scratch marks, ofc the survivor can try to juke you but you can also catch it much better and faster than the Wolf form. The killer instinct its too short of a duration and most of the time you have clear view of the window and you already see the direction the survivor is running into. The boosted orbs are the only thing that can maybe help you in certain tiles that you are not able to use Hellfire well. Also, if you are hitting most pounces i would say the survivors are not playing very well. The times where Pounce are most likely to hit its if you are in a narrow hallway or if the survivor is just not looking behind them and going in straight line.
Again, Wolf form was marketed as the "tracking tool" and the track is only worth in chase where most of the time you know where the survivor is.
And also i still dont see a reason why it breaks pallets THAT slow when by doing that you are also putting yourself in a position to be stunned instead.
Vampire form is also fine.
On this i agree. Vampire form is mostly fine i think.
The only problem with Dracula is the random buff they gave his transformation cooldown. He felt great and fluid to play at 5 seconds. At 2.5 you can hit a survivor and then bat form back on top of them immediately, it's stupid.
5 seconds never felt great and fluid. If i did transform into Bat to quickly teleport into a window, when i did reach it i still did need to wait more seconds to not even see the survivors until i could transform. Transforming sometimes was more of a burden than a good thing.
Now i can fully utilize shapeshift depending on the situation. Maybe at the end 2.5 seconds is too short? Maybe, but 5 was far too long, and i even say that 4 seconds would also be too long.
Wolf form is fine insofar as it's one of 3 different powers Dracula has.
The lunge is really not that hard to hit with on keyboard + mouse if you have good reflexes. Once you get a feel for how far the initial dash goes, you can also do things like lunge forward as the survivor is rounding a corner, pivot, and then lunge into them for a hit.
Wolf form is great for tracking, you can see scent orbs from pretty long distances and it would be the best form for chasing survivors over open ground if they hadn't unnecessarily buffed his transformation cooldown.
You can tell what direction survivors run after they vault a window, but not if they kept moving. They could stop moving after breaking LoS and try to mindgame. With wolf form you know if they're just committing to a direction or not.
I think it's a bit iffy for you to be saying that I'm playing against bad survivors, when the ones you're playing against continue to keep running while healthy after you've shifted into bat form, instead of immediately walking and trying to hide to throw you off. It's impossible to hear breathing in bat form over all the screeching. It's not impossible to figure out where they went, but I could just use wolf form and the scent orbs for a similar effect, considering I haven't hit them yet and they aren't speeding off from being hit.
As for the part about bat form, what you're describing is the reason why bat form didn't use to be overpowered. Survivors should have counterplay against you. Now it is overpowered with the 2.5 second cooldown since they don't have counterplay. You just show up in the window and insta-shift back. It's basically a THIRD chase power now, it should only be for moving around the map.
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@albertoplus said:
Im actually kinda amazed on seeing people saying that Wolf form is "good" or even "strong" and sometimes asking to nerf it.
Wolf form is bad. The tracking it has most of the time is useless as only works when you are in chase and you dont need it (mind you, this form was marketed as the "tracking tool" Dracula has) and the Pounce is extremely hard to aim and easy to miss and dodge. And for some reason, if you manage to break a pallet with it (and not getting stunned first), his pallet break animation is one of the longest in the entire game, rivaling with the normal break animation.
Bat form is good but it also did need the buffs. Before touching Dracula, first Wolf foorm needs buffs or adjustments.
Wolf form is fine. It's got a lot of great applications in chase. I have no problem landing the pounce unless I'm going for super risky ones. It's great for chasing survivors trying to hold W in chase who haven't been injured yet, since healthy survivors are difficult for the bat form to follow. The tracking is great at any tile with a window that you can't hit over with Hellfire, since you get killer instinct when a survivor vaults that lets you know what direction they're running. The boosted speed from the scent orbs can pressure survivors to drop the pallet earlier than they want.
The reason breaking the pallet is a bit slower than other killers who can break pallets with their power is because it's just one of Dracula's powers.
Vampire form is also fine.
The only problem with Dracula is the random buff they gave his transformation cooldown. He felt great and fluid to play at 5 seconds. At 2.5 you can hit a survivor and then bat form back on top of them immediately, it's stupid.
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@Autharia said:
The biggest thing is bat form is 100x better then Spirit's power.
Spirit's power - 1.5 activation, 15 second CD, 5 second duration, 7.04 m/s, Invisable, Sound queue to survivor, Blocked by normal obstacles (Vaults/Pallets), Unable to interact with props, 1 second of speed after exiting.
Dracula bat form - Instant activation, 2.5 second CD, Unlimited duration, 6.5 m/s, Visible bats, 50% louder stepping sounds, flies over vaults and pallets, Teleport to downed pallets/vault in 32 range at 12 m/s, Can interact with all props on map (Gen/Pallet/Breakable doors/Hatch).No it's not.
I actually do think Dracula is a bit too good (and I'm saying that while mine is currently p51). But Dracula can't attack out of bat form and survivors can see him and play around it accordingly. Dracula's bat form also makes an enormous amount of noise, making it nigh-impossible to track survivors by sound.
Spirit is still better. Just, as a whole, Spirit is still a stronger killer than him, not even in comparison to just bat form.
Bat form is stupid good but it's not because it's a better version of Spirit's power, it's because it completely eliminates holding W after a hit as a counterplay you can use on him.