Xendritch
Xendritch
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- Xendritch
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114225#Comment_4114225
Every killer is easy to play against when the version you compare them to is unskilled and/or inexperienced.
Following your same logic, I can say Judgement is very hard because most survivors don't know how to loop.
Literal strawman.That's not what a strawman is? I didn't make up a scenario it's literally my own personal experience lmao.
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My lobbies have been weird lately, mostly getting two survivors that are quite good and two survivors that are absolutely clueless. I'm hoping it will work itself out in time.
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Preying Mantis? ❌
Praying Mantis? ✅
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@Bloodraven said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114138#Comment_4114138
Mate this whole thread is a study in ragebait, survivors don't like having to learn how to deal with a killer that breaks the status quo of killer powers and would rather face their ghouls and blights forever more.
If anything the Judgment needs a buff to the stun she has between having just cast her beam and then being able to do anything, needs to be at least halved.
The weird thing is beating Judgement isn't even hard, I think I've lost to maybe one since she came out. Hear the beam get off the gen for a moment if you get hit take the moment to heal and then try again, if she chases you congrats you won cuz most don't know how to hit people in loops yet, I truly have no clue how people can struggle with that.
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….
I think we're getting into ragebait territory so I think I'm good on this conversation lmao
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114127#Comment_4114127
Yes, keep downplaying this overpowered killer so you can stay up there on the leaderboard.
You understand everyone on that specific leaderboard is playing Judgment so I'm only being compared to other people playing Judgment right?
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114122#Comment_4114122
So you can't prove that what you are saying is true? Then most people will see this and conclude you're lying or ignorant.
"Can you dodge a ghoul attack? If you can't then that’s just a skill issue because i face actual good survivors that do dodge."
This is the exact kind of poor argument you're making, and I doubt your about to tell me ghoul's attack is dodgable.
You're likely at a very low skill mmr level if you're having issues hitting your attack that often.
Other way around at higher mmr, I'm #1 in Judgment adepts and #17 in Divine Light hits.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114119#Comment_4114119
Just because you know it's coming doesn't mean its 100% dodgable.
Come prove it to me if you think otherwise. I'll be waiting
What is this CoD lmao? I don't care if you don't know how to dodge that's a you issue, I already know it's true because I face actual good survivors that do dodge.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114113#Comment_4114113
Just because you try some skillful shots doesn't mean that 99% of Judgment players do the same. There is no skill needed to stand in the middle of the map and press a button to shoot at an aura of a generator or a survivor. That's the problem.
I mean there's only no issue involved if the survivor is not paying attention or wants to greed a gen so that feels like a problem for low MMR.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114113#Comment_4114113
First of all your position is entirely irrelevant as it doesn’t matter how close or far you are from the survivor.
Seond the survivors position doesn't matter that much because no obstacles or elevant can protect them from the beam, literally nothing.
All that matters is if ur able to follow your cursor onto the survivor accurately enough or get lucky enough to hit some random shots if you aren't exulted. You don't aim where you think the survivor is going to be that's how to incorrectly play him, no wonder he seems weak then.
And yes the thinking he needs to do to fire the beam is far less than any other ranged killer in the game. Huntress needs to adjust based on loop heights, ur charge time, the speed, the range and where u aim etc. Not withstanding huntress's projectile is far more react-able than judgements. It's legit slower even at full charge. A similar list could be written about other ranged killers in the game, excluding vecna 2 who has the same issue as the judgement.
At this point it's clear you don't have much experience on the killer because everything you're saying is wrong (like nothing protects from the beam when in fact lockers do) and I'm not bother trying to convince you otherwise because you clearly have no desire to learn.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114105#Comment_4114105
I think you have it horribly backwards and I can make it real practical for you.
Judgement is the killer who you just put your power near the survivor and fire. You don't need to take into account obstacles, aim time, loop heights, speed of the power, range, elevation etc. All of these factors which could add skill to a killers power are irrelevant. You don't even need to understand how to play hooks, hook macro, how to play around most survivor perks, how to macro since you can attack anyone anywhere, basic fundamental dbd skills are irrelevant on this killer.
Meanwhile nurse needs to still understand distances with her blinks, play around obstacles and interactions with the blink mechanics. Pallet stuns can be somewhat threatening against a nurse. She needs to be good at macro since she cant pressure 2 sides of the map at once with a ranged ability.
What more practical proof do you need:
Are you able to demonstrate with a video or by playing against me or someone in a custom how nurse is simply about placing a cursor on a survivor? Or how judgement needs to do this fancy triangulation ######### and account for a huge range of variables with his ranged power?
This is a gross oversimplification of Judgement. If you wanna get hits up close you need to chase a survivor while charging the power and lining it up with where you think the survivor is going to be. That's worrying about your position their position and the beams position. This idea that you just fire the beam without thinking is pure fantasy.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114095#Comment_4114095
Once again judgement is way easier to play than nurse and nurse has far more obviously exploitable weaknesses.
Also nurse has been nerfed countless times over the years so saying "nurse doesn't get touched" is not true.
Nurse is not hard you put cursor on survivor then readjust if needed with second blink. Meanwhile you're doing trigonometry on Judgement lmao.
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@Hoopme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113862#Comment_4113862
Sigh talk like this makes me fearful cause I really don't want judgement to get the skullmerchant treatment
The only reason I'm not worried is the reason Nurse doesn't get touched much despite being a touch too strong is because they consider her hard enough to play that it's warranted. Considering they see Judgement the same way it would be a blatant hypocrisy of their own balance philosophy if they gutted Judgement.
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Executioner is sad you forgot about him guessing through walls first.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113969#Comment_4113969
I agree. I personally don't much care for those add-ons, but you're right in that the option is present. I think Mech has hit the nail on the head in that it seems best both sides just miss out on perks. Ultimately the exile mechanic is more detrimental to overall play then it is beneficial to the killer, as multiple can be 'unhooked' at once which is a dramatic shift in pressure creation.
I'd leave it as it is if I had the option myself. But if it becomes so much of an issue, that 'multi unhook' thing is going to be a thorn in the side of balancing making exiles count as hooking and unhooking actions.
I can't even imagine how you'd operate STB against unhooking three people at once.Supposedly the incentive to exile multiple people is the seeds of punishment in there get more aggressive the more people are in there but survivors just wait to liberate if a second person gets downed and then liberate both so in my experience it never has a chance to actually work. Honestly woulda been nice to have some exile add ons to make them more aggressive with just one person in there.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113928#Comment_4113928
I'd be down for that in full. If it counted as hooking and unhooking all around it would be sensibly balanced and fair. My only objection is from the one side or the other argument.
Would be nice to get something like pop/BBQ/etc on exile. Though I wonder how 'scourge' hooks would work with exile, as it would need to be addressed. Given you can exile three survs and it only takes one action to free them, would be senseless to not count exiles as scourges to even it out.I feel like this is where the add ons come in like we have "kind of pain res" with detonators and "kind of BBQ" with blindfold and then we get to run 4 perks on top of it so I don't think it's a bad deal even with the restrictions on those add ons.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113878#Comment_4113878
Okay if you take everything I said there literally sure but my point still stands.
This killer is the definition of mega power creep and creating more and more blatantly OP killers to satisfy a particular audience in the community. Why would you ever play artist when this killer exists, its blatantly a 1000 times better version of her, and artist ISN’T EVEN A BAD KILLER. People complained about nurse for years because she ignores fundamental game mechanics, but then when this killer and Vecna2 do just that suddenly its not a problem and I don't get it. These killers are even easier than nurse and way more frustrating to play against.
I mean Artist is way better at shutting down loops than Judgement is so I could see someone who prefers micro play over macro preferring Artist. I also disagree that Judgement is easier than Nurse, I mean at a base level against survivors that don't bother paying attention and let you snipe them sure. But against good survivors paying attention you suddenly rely on prediction shots a lot more which is a lot harder than Nurse just teleporting to you twice.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113801#Comment_4113801
This killer does even better at higher levels as well because she negates most of the survivor skill. She has some of the best 3genning mechanics in the game, is insane at tunneling, can sort of camp for free, negates all survivor perks and can hit you ANYWHERE on the map.
If they are half decent, which is not that hard, they are pretty much unbeatable in chase let alone the insane map pressure, anti perk and time saving abilities in their kit. It's Vecna on steriods and that killer is already horrific enough.
Reading this makes me more confident Judgment is fine because most of this is just not true. Camping with her isn't free, she can't use her power around hooks and there's two shrines you can rescue from exile with. I'm not even going to address the idea she counters EVERY survivor perk because that's obviously a joke and she can't hit you anywhere on the map it's only 60 meters which is about half the map usually.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113793#Comment_4113793
She also isnt hard to play, most people run full aura builds, there is no defense against that on survivor side, she sees everyone all the time.
So she just snipes from afar constantly while holding 3 gens from the very start.
So hard is massive oversell, never saw a chase judgement at all its always long range sniping also she disables most of survivor perks as well.
I wouldn't be surprised if her winrate very high against solo especially
Saying there's no defense against aura reading is a joke when shadowstep and distortion exists otherwise what aura are you worried about?
Nurses? Don't heal in their TR.
Gearhead? Only useful for sniping so just be aware and dodge the beam.
Celestial Witness/Nemesis? Get near her and the aura read won't even trigger.
Darkness Revealed? So many maps have bad locker spawns this won't even trigger most of the time.
Like yes you'll get snipes occasionally but to actually go down you have to 1. Work on a gen while injured 2. Somehow make the choice to STILL not pay attention to your surroundings after getting sniped once. If that happens you deserve to get downed at that point.
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So make them like every other killer? Nah I'm good.
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I'd be more okay with it if we had more than Blood Moon and Anniversary to rely on. Halloween and Winter events need to give way more BP.
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I want a dinosaur pretty bad but it'd have to be a raptor. Rexy just wouldn't work.
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Nah sometimes we'll be in a lobby and one of our friends will suddenly wanna join so we gotta back out and grab them. Getting penalized for that would be goofy as hell.
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Damn Krasue is already forgotten.
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113355#Comment_4113355
I heavily disagree zealous vs no zealous is a different killer. You are much much harder to dodge in chase, have more uptime on pressuring the map, and the beam size is just a bonus on top. The order of inquisition heavily nerfs you into being exclusively a ranged sniper and the size bonus comes at the end of the beam giving more reaction time to survs instead of just spawning a larger beam close to the gen.
If you find zealous makes a difference for you sure I can't argue with that. I will however defend order of inquisition as a very good add on and disagree it forces you to only snipe. The beam grows over 1 second and starts 25% smaller and winds up 50% bigger meaning it only takes 1/3rd of a second to get to it's original size of 3m. So you're not really nerfing your close range potential very much.
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@HexFelix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113365#Comment_4113365
I play lots of killer myself and I have to say you sound like you have 10 hours.How can you get aura form bbq and tunnel when you hooked another survivor? You just saying I’m wrong without naming good points or saying it’s not on issue in my games.
Try 6k. And if you can't comprehend the concept of looking for a specific aura every time you activate BBQ I can't help you with that.
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@HexFelix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113343#Comment_4113343
- Because this post was supposed to be on just this Perk, read the title
- Not a good argument because just because it’s not an issue in your games doesn’t mean it’s fine. Same as if you would say Shoulder is fair and balanced because in my lobby’s i don’t see it. Dbd has many issues and I’m talking about this one because I noticed how stupid it is in chaos shuffle when I randomly got it.
- If perks can be countered by other perks, what counters Self-Preversation? Scream perks maybe but they are rarely used and often not worth a perk I already explained why hook=aura perks are good for the game. And killer slots are more valuable since they have 4, and survivors bring 16 perks.
- Killers who bring aura perks like bbq in 99% don’t have the intention to tunnel or camp so making a specific perk that spits on that is ridiculous.
- But killers who intent on camping ether wanted to do this from the start, want to secure a kill in endgame (wich is valid) or know all survivors are nearby (wich is valid). And camping killers usually dont bring perks like bbq. Like I said perks like bbq lead away form the hook, so saying it isn’t healthy for the game is completely wrong.
- Urban Evasion doesn’t hide your aura, scratchmarks or blood, it’s something different than of what I’m talking about.
- It would still had a usage like I explained and even would have synergy in builds like flashlight builds. Not every perk needs to have super man like powers, especially survivor perk’s mustn’t be as strong as killer perks.
And a Dbd thats more healthy would be killers going for multiple hooks, perks not giving you everything for free. Self-Preservation just spits on that and says „screw you im invisible just go for my teammates I’ll wait with my key with left behind“
We're gonna go in circles like this so I'll just say I know you're wrong because I play killer. You give me aura and I can know it won't be blocked I am going to use it to help me tunnel and yes even BBQ because just because I can see everyone doesn't mean I'm going to go after everyone and not just ping pong between two people to get someone out as quickly as possible. You put on self-preservation all of a sudden maybe I can't do that so how unhealthy is that really?
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@SpyUA said:
The issue is with this build is you don't get zealous, which is quite important for judgement so I won't be using this build personally.
Zealous actually isn't that great atm. You get two main bonuses from zealous.
1. Beam gets 10% bigger which considering this is only a 0.3m increase and you can get a 50% increase from just running order of inquisition is quite underwhelming.
2. The curve which is only active for 0.3 seconds currently which is incredibly undertuned.
So putting this together I could actually see this build being quite viable with how underwhelming zealous currently is.
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@HexFelix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113331#Comment_4113331
I think you're still missing the main point of my original post, because most of your response is addressing things I wasn't actually arguing.
I never claimed Self-Preservation causes tunneling, that removing it would stop tunneling, or that the Ghoul was somehow forced to chase me because BBQ showed my aura. The Distortion example therefore doesn't really address my argument. I'm not arguing about whether Killers will tunnel if they have less information; I'm arguing about what Self-Preservation does to the specific hook → information → leave the hook → next chase interaction.
The same goes for whether my team was “always going to die” or whether I should have used Self-Preservation for stealth saves. That's discussing how I personally used the perk in one match rather than the design issue I'm pointing out.
My original post made several specific points that I don't think you've really addressed:
- Self-Preservation automatically activates when another Survivor is hooked, meaning the user doesn't have to make any decision or take any action to get its value.
- It can repeatedly provide 30 seconds of protection throughout the match.
- It specifically interferes with hook-based aura information such as BBQ, Friends 'til the End and Alien Instinct.
- Those aura perks can serve a healthy gameplay function by giving the Killer a reason to leave the hook and pursue another Survivor.
- If that information is repeatedly denied, the Killer has less information about where to go next, which can make staying around the hook comparatively more attractive.
- It can also synergize particularly well with a passive “let my teammates take the pressure while I stay hidden” playstyle.
- And that's why I think the old trigger, where Elusive activated around another Survivor being hit, had a healthier purpose: it was tied to an actual interaction and helped discourage the Killer from immediately converting one interaction into pressure on another Survivor.
You haven't really argued against those points. Instead, the discussion has mostly become “tunneling would still happen,” “your team might have died anyway,” and “stealth perks naturally allow ratting.”
I agree with some of those statements. They just don't disprove what I'm arguing.
I'm not saying stealth is inherently unhealthy. I'm not saying Survivors shouldn't counter Killer perks. I'm not saying BBQ should always get value. And I'm not saying Self-Preservation guarantees an escape.
I'm saying that the particular way Self-Preservation provides stealth—automatically and repeatedly after someone else gets hooked, while specifically suppressing information that is designed to direct the Killer toward another chase—is what I consider unhealthy.
If you have real arguments yourself why Self-Preservation isn’t unhealthy I’m open for that, but what you have said so far didn’t deny any of my points.
I haven't really addressed it cuz I don't think any of them are really that interesting?
1. As I've said a bunch of perks work this way I don't know why we're singling out self-preservation
2. I just don't think this is an issue?
3. Perks can be countered by other perks yes, kinda the point of stealth perks in the first place.
4. I just disagree with this. I think we're too obsessed with "healthy" in DBD and it gets thrown around way too much. Aura perks are there to give the killer an advantage they're not they're to be "healthy".
5. If a killer camps they were probably gonna do that anyway. The idea that you have to dangle your aura in front of the killer or they'll just camp is kinda childish to me. Like "tell me where to go next or I'm taking my ball and going home" type ish.
6. Again this is the nature of stealth perks. We have been dealing with urban evasioning around the map since 2016. Those types of players will exist regardless.
7. Old self-preservation had a -10% use rate you'd basically kill the perk if you went back to this.
I think overall I'm just more okay with some perks being strong? if we focused on everything being "healthy" and promoting a "fair playstyle" we would have a very sanitized boring game. Self-preservation isn't actively breaking anything so it's fine imo.
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@HexFelix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113311#Comment_4113311
I think we’re getting away from my actual point by discussing whether my team was “going to die anyway” or whether I could have used Self-Preservation for stealth saves.
I’m not arguing that Self-Preservation guarantees a win or that I personally couldn’t have used it better. I’m arguing about what the perk incentivizes and what its effect does to the Killer’s information.
If my team is getting hooked repeatedly and Self-Preservation repeatedly makes me immune to hook-based aura information, then I can remain outside the Killer’s attention while my teammates take the pressure. Whether my teammates were eventually going to die anyway doesn’t really address whether that is a healthy gameplay pattern.
And I agree with you that Survivors shouldn’t run toward the Killer for no reason. The point isn’t that Survivors should constantly seek chase. The point is that taking chase, extending a chase, rescuing, healing and creating pressure relief for your teammates are all important parts of Survivor teamplay. Stealth is also legitimate, but I think there’s a difference between choosing stealth and having a perk repeatedly make you extremely difficult to locate specifically whenever your teammates are hooked.
As for “most Survivor perks are passive,” I don’t think that’s the relevant distinction.
My problem isn’t simply that Self-Preservation is passive. It’s that its passive effect is:
- triggered automatically by another Survivor being hooked,
- lasts 30 seconds,
- can repeatedly activate throughout the match, and
- specifically interferes with the Killer’s hook-based information wich have the goal to lead the killer away form the hook.
A passive healing perk, for example, doesn’t suppress the Killer’s information after a hook. Self-Preservation does.
That’s why I’m singling it out.
And I’m not saying BBQ, Pain Res, No Way Out, etc. should be guaranteed value. Survivors should obviously counter Killer perks. My argument is that there’s a difference between “this perk has a counter” and “this counter creates a healthy gameplay pattern.”
My concern is that Self-Preservation can turn the hook → information → leave hook → chase another Survivor cycle into hook → no useful information → continue struggling to locate the stealthy Survivor → proxy camping
That’s one of the interactions I think that are problematic.
If you disagree with that, that’s completely fair, but then I’d rather discuss whether that particular interaction is healthy than whether my teammates were doomed anyway or whether I personally could have used the perk differently.
But how you use the perk is the crux of the issue. If you just rat with it and your team isn't good in chase then ofc that's gonna go poorly. If your issue is that you can do that in the first place that's kinda just the nature of stealth perks it's hard to design a stealth perk that's actually good that doesn't do that outside of like maybe Iron Will.
Also I think it's false framing to suggest it's causing unhealthy gameplay when we had this debate with distortion. People said tunneling would stop if we just nerfed Distortion that they were just ratting and letting their teams die cuz the killer was then "forced" to tunnel. Well we nerfed Distortion it's usage plummeted and .…tunneling still happened, a lot.
We kinda have to realize DBD in theory and DBD in practice are not the same thing. If a killer wants to tunnel they're going to because getting one person out of the game as quickly as possible creates the most pressure for them if they are actually trying to win. Even if you don't have self-preservation there's no actual guarantee the ghoul goes for you when you have no hook states and others are on death hook because even if they can see you the incentive is low outside of pressuring whatever gen you're working on.
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Can we just get one of the Korean anticheats? They take cheating in games so seriously over there they're the only ones I'd trust with this if we're insisting on kernel level anticheat.
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@HexFelix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113295#Comment_4113295
My examples: Yeah but while doing the 2 gens my entire team died. If i wouldnt had have that perk he might have had the opportunity to chase my and my team would have the chance to recover a bit. And the ghoul didn’t over relay on bbq it was chaos shuffle wich opened my eyes on how bad designed Self-Preservation actually is. The fact a single perk made me unfindable while my entire team dies and I profit form it is ridiculous.
For chase not being an objective, thats wrong: The killer has to chase his objective wich are the survivors and distracting the killer so everyone else can do gens or heal is an objective of survivors too.Pain res and No way out have a healthy design: 4 hooking to collect those advantages, you still need to do something to activate them, wich also shows another thing bad thing about Self-Preservation, you can equip it and it’s brained free since you as the user dont have to do anything to activate it. And since you didn’t had anything against 90% of my points on how badly designed Self-Preservation is, then I guess you had no real argument to defend the perk.
Honestly your team was probably always gonna die if they can't loop a ghoul and it was partially your fault not because you had self-preservation but because you didn't leverage it to get stealth saves.
And no the killer has to chase and find survivors yes but survivors should put off that chase as long as possible to buy even more time, if you just run to the killer you're throwing.
Also you just described most survivor perks, you either don't have to do anything to activate them or the killer has to do something to activate them so I don't understanding singling out self-preservation for this.
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She's not great at close range but you can hit close range shots. I never feel more powerful than when I'm chasing a survivor go "wait for me for one second" fling a beam at a far gen get a down and then hit the close range shot.
Is it easy or consistent? No but considering the killer can do that at all it should be difficult cuz that's crazy.
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Your logic has a flaw in it which is while you can consider chase the fun part of the game which is fine it isn't the objective of the game. It sounds like from your example you got tremendous value from it being able to do almost 3 gens uninterrupted while it didn't actually prevent the ghoul from winning cuz you were still forced to get hatch so there didn't seem to be anything unfair in that interaction and if the ghoul over relies on BBQ that's on them.
Also let us not confuse a perk being considered healthy for the game like pain res and no way out with you must let it get value. They're still perks of the killer trying to well kill you and you should still try to counter it as much as you can and survive.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113133#Comment_4113133
It was a very simple question to establish common ground on what an ideal version of DBD looks like.
But you're not interested in having this discussion in good faith. What a shame.I mean no you were trying to suggest you can only use a few perks against Judgement which isn't true. You're just being disingenuous.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113104#Comment_4113104
Do you want to engage in a conversation or are buzz words all I'm going to hear from you?
I'm asking you to clarify your position on the topic. Please look up the definition of 'strawman,' for everyone's sake.
One last time…
Would you rather only a few perks be run in most games, because the rest offer such little value and/or are unreliable, or would you rather a gamut of perks be used (by both sides)?
If you can't answer that, I'm not going to waste my time talking to you.I mean we'd just go in circles. You're presenting a nonexistent world where only a few perks are viable. We don't live in that world so it's a pointless question.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113048#Comment_4113048
That is not what I asked.
Would you rather only a few perks be run in most games, because the rest offer such little value and/or are unreliable, or would you rather a gamut of perks be used (by both sides)?Except this is a strawman. You're just saying only a few perks are viable when that isn't actually true.
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@maybesarahhh said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113064#Comment_4113064
Either this is not true or its bugged, as I've been getting hit during the unhooking animation/less than 1s after in most of my trials…
It goes away the second you're unhooked but while you're hooked it's there.
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But there is? You can't fire near a hook and the beam stops at the hook when someone is hooked so you can't actually hit it.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112943#Comment_4112943
…and when you realize every survivor in every match is running the same few perks, because they have the highest probability of value, will it seem like more or less of a problem to you?
Sounds like it's time for a changing meta to me and to that I say good riddance the meta has been the same for a long time.
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@KarmicAngelLexi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112943#Comment_4112943
This is such a biased and short-sighted "non answer" from a killer main who prolly hasn't played survivor in who knows how long 🙄 no $#!+ certain killers can counter certain builds, that's not a problem. What is a problem is when the new killer that you see 20+ matches in a gd row (shame on the person a few posts above trying to gaslight us into believing 'nobody plays this killer' smdh) can counter literally 50% or more of the viable builds that are out there. So no, this does not promote "build diversity" if anything this will encourage players to use the only 2 or 3 builds that are any good against them. To be quite honest this has been the most disappointing killer release in a long time and the Survivor lobby being at a constant 1.75x multiplier since this god awful killer released last Tuesday should be all the evidence you need that no one likes playing against this killer. I don't even know how bhvr could release this killer in it's current state without being completely ashamed of themselves imho it's incredibly unfun and frustrating to play against no matter how many matches you have to "practice" against it.
I actually play both sides and until recently played survivor way more so this kinda ad hominem isn't gonna work, sorry. So Judgement isn't that popular on release compared to other killers so there is no doubt she'll be very rare to face once the dust settles and at night least survivor multiplier is only 1.1x so not really sure what you're talking about.
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Once you realize more than half of those are perks nobody runs it seems a lot less like a problem. Then once you realize different killers shut down different builds like Plague with healing and any stealth killer with aura reading this seems like a silly thing to complain about. And then after all that when you realize survivors can run perks that can shutdown certain killers (Twins facing anti slugging perks for instance) this thread just seems massively hypocritical.
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That's really interesting actually. If that's the case then Judgement might actually be the best user of Third Seal because unlike every other killer SWFs can't just be like "I'm right here" over comms because they don't know the shrine locations anymore than their teammates do. Not sure if it's "meta" per se but it's worth playing around with and testing. Good find.
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I feel like it's gonna be really annoying on 3-4 killers when used with overcharge/eruption and not worth it on everyone else. But I think it's gonna be a long time before that happens because 1. people are sleeping on it and 2. it's on a killer not a ton of people are gonna buy.
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100% agree, I love they've made a killer so skill expressive and mentally engaging. Also agree on the curve nerf being too extreme but they kinda seem to know it is so not really worried, confidant that will be buffed.
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@MiseryandCompany said:
What do you mean by "unavoidable other than moving away"? You just described how to counter that. Just take 2 steps to the left or right and keep your camera focused on her.
The only viable gen slowdown build on her is the Thrill of the Hunt + Ruin build, but that is
a) mostly an issue with Thrill making Totems very safe and
b) extremely punishable, given if she does not chase she only has a shot every 6-7 seconds. Judgements can not really run most perks, as chase perks are not viable on her and any perk that requires hooks can not be taken without making your beam worse.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UR3QHZUP5ELB/image.png
Found this neat list on X and I agree mostly with it. In reality, Judgement has a very limited set of perks that are actually synergizing with her kit AND aura sniping is extremely fun, so naturally people gravitate towards that. Judgement has essentially no gen regression and relies on pressure to stop survivors from doing all gens in 5 minutes.
Very strongly disagree with this tier list. Gen kick perks are absolutely fine on Judgement like currently I'm using Eruption/Lay Waste on Judgement and it both eviscerates gens you need to keep for your 3 gen and Judgement is one of the few killers that can actually make use of Eruption's aura reading. Discordance and Surveillance are also very good and I actually don't think m1 perks are unusable on her like sometimes you do just m1 cuz trying to hit the beam in a dead zone is a waste of time. I think all in on aura is kinda meme and is only working rn because people are still learning to go against them and people are going to need to work on creative solutions once that happens.
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Judgement is genuinely top 5 in the game you just have to put the time in. The idea that we got a new hardest killer in the game and people wanna call them weak after a day is laughable.
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Well done Brother
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I decided to only play with their perks the first day.
Hex is meh, like it's not bad but it's just not terribly noticable either. I could see it being a decent option for m1 killers that feel exhaustion perks more.
Lay Waste gives me flashbacks to when CoB/Overcharge was meta. I'm a little worried when people catch on to this one. I've regressed nearly complete gens to nothing with only lay Waste. Makes fighting for a 3 gen feasible and I don't like the idea of Singularity or Knight having access to this.
Celestial Witness is surprisingly good. Ranged killers obviously use this best but I think it's decent for anyone if you're the type that needs the 4k makes finding the last person so much easier. And I haven't even tested with STBFL or Nemesis. Could see this perk getting some decent usage especially among the crowd that likes funny combos.
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I mean most people are playing her for the first time today and she's the hardest killer in the game to play. She's quite strong but it takes a little while to get there.