The_Manlet
The_Manlet
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The balance has been shifted to the point where being one of the worst killers doesn't really matter much anymore because there's not much difference between the worst killer and an upper mid-tier killer. There's still a massive gulf for the top killers like Nurse and Hillbilly, but there really isn't much difference in power between Freddy and say, Myers these days. The balance is much closer now. We're at the point where Decisive Strike is almost gone unless you tunnel people right off the hook.
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Freddy is actually pretty fun when there's no D-strike or instant heals. People will pop a Haunted Ground totem right in front of you thinking they're clever, and the obsession, if not asleep whenever a generator is popping, will finish the final generator right in front of you not realizing you're running Rancor.
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I want Triangle Face. He's my favourite Resident Evil hero.
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By the time Freddy's hand leaves the screen, it's about 2.5 seconds, and by the time you react and finish counting 3 in your head it will be 3 seconds. I find it's much easier to time when you start from 3 once the hand is gone. This gets messed up when sleeping multiple survivors and going after the first one though, so don't do it in those situations. So you can start giving false information as soon as the hand leaves the screen, and then about 2 seconds later you're invisible until just before you can hit them.
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Use Make Your Choice or tunnel. If you try to go after the rescuer without MYC you're doomed. Consider Save The Best For Last, as you can just ignore the obsession if you don't put him to sleep. He won't be able to force you to hit him. As a hit and run killer Freddy does well with STBFL. People will also unhook in your face which means you can quickly down them with STBFL.
Oh, and Haunted Ground is also good because they'll pop the totem right in your face thinking it's ruin and that getting hit once will be worth popping it.
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Replace? I have far too much self-respect to use Decisive Strike in the first place. I may use the new version now that it isn't concentrated cancer.
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I don't think the stress comes from the actual gameplay. Killers are more stressful to play because of player behaviour. If you're a survivor and you screw up, you get hooked and you die quickly. You can even struggle on the hook if you want out of the match quickly. The killer is not focused on you unless he's the angry "hit the survivor on the hook" type. It's just business and he kills you so fast he doesn't even stay to watch you die on the hook.
The killer, on the other hand, is trapped in the game with the survivors until he can kill them or force them to leave. If the survivors are d-striking, insta-healing t-baggers he has put up with a lot of abuse just to get the match over with and then he has to deal with the post-game chat and any angry "friend" requests. The SWF are just there to screw with him and view him less as an opponent and more as an object of amusement. Even if the killer beats them, they usually get their fun at his expense.
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Huntress or Myers.
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/358860#Comment_358860
I hear people say this frequently around here when talking about her cosmetics.
But i checked her out at the store earlier today, and the cosmetic count seems more than fine.
She's really only overlooked in comparison to the very popular free characters. As far as paid/unlockable characters go she has a fine amount.
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The devs tend to drop these updates whenever they want with zero warning. That will probably be the case here as well.
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You're not going to beat a half-decent Huntress with Iridescent head and infantry belt. It's brokenly overpowered. 90% of the time they also have an ebony mori. When you're facing that brand of absolute horse crap, all you can do is try to do 2 gens, play stealthy, get your unhook points and hope you can grab the hatch.
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Ah, but now you can run Make Your Choice and actually drag them to a good hook for it instead of panicking straight to the nearest, crappy hook because they may be able to break out of your grasp at 35% wiggle.
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Whispers works best for finding survivors at the very start of the match so you don't have to travel around the map checking generators that people are hiding nearby, and yet you know you don't have time to check every hiding spot. With Whispers, good killers like Huntress can get someone on a hook in the first minute.
The perk is more useful for knowing where the survivors aren't, thus saving the killer lots of time. You can also use Whispers to prevent a hatch escape, but that's just a bonus. 90% of the perk's value comes from the first minute of the game.
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If a rework was ever actually in the works, and they aren't just stringing us along, then you can be sure they've probably made up their minds by now on how they want Freddy's rework to go.
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I'd argue Friday the 13th is more playable at this point, and that game died largely because of how unstable it was. You're pretty much guaranteed an infinite loading screen that forces you to close the game multiple times a day.
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Fair? Who cares, free grasp escapes are almost gone! How can any killer complain about anything when Decisive Strike is finally being dealt with?
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I like this idea, so long as it also only gives tokens on safe unhooks and no longer applies when you let the killer hit you as he is carrying someone to a hook. Tired of people sabotaging games just to get their stacks the easy way.
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I'm confused, isn't the game supposed to be a 3vs1, and it's just a happy bug when you get 4 survivors in the same game?
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Lithe will finally be worth using now that it no longer requires a chase.
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He's a skilled player but he's also very stubborn. Always plays every killer the same way, with the same build, even if that build makes no sense on that killer. He had to have the proper way to play Plague explained to him because he was so intent on playing her like he does every other killer that isn't Nurse or Spirit.
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Nine times out of ten the killer is going to stay close enough to the hook that you'll struggle to heal the unhooked survivor even if you were running We'll Make It. That's why I stopped running that perk.
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Outside of Decisive Strike? Survivors who think they can actually crawl away from the killer who has slugged them when they should just sit still and recover.
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@yeet said:
I want pyramid head.
Silent Hill would fit nicely in DbD, but I don't think Konami cares about their properties enough to even pimp them out.
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When I play killer whether I have fun is mostly determined by how many times I get hit with Decisive Strike, not whether I win or even manage to kill anyone. Whether I have fun as survivor is determined by whether I spend the whole game being chased or on hook or get to do a wide variety of activities.
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Throw bottles ahead of survivors to cut off areas and incentivize them to go another way or head to a weaker looping area.
When you get to a pallet loop, throw gas at each side of the survivor so they're forced to run through one side. You can usually hit them before they reach the pallet, unless they use Dead Hard, which you can deny with the yellow Solvent Jug add-on.
Don't reload in the middle of a chase. Get to a loop, stand under the pallet and start reloading. They either abandon the loop, in which case you cancel your reload and go after them for a hit, or they sit there and wait until you have all your bottles and can start throwing them down to hit them before the loop.
When you pick up the obsession, throw down a gas bottle first, pick them up, and then stand in the gas for a few seconds. If they use Decisive Strike they'll usually be slowed by the gas, allowing you to catch them a little faster. If you're running Enduring, D-Strike will be almost useless unless they are downed in a perfect spot.As for perks, I'd recommend perks that slow down the game and perks that improve your power in a chase. That's all Clown is good for so double down on it.
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I don't even consider Adrenaline to be an exhaustion perk because it really doesn't conflict with the other ones outside of not letting you stack them (unless you use the exhaustion perk first).
Dead Hard is the best for general use looping. You use it mainly to extend a loop and make it to a pallet or window in time. Dodging hits is gravy.
Lithe is probably the best for getting you to a new loop spot on demand, and probably the best for outright losing the killer (especially with Dance With Me) but the problem is that you'll often be forced to blow it on a crappy window that won't get you much distance. It takes proper planning to use.
Balanced Landing varies from downright overpowered to almost useless depending on the map.
Sprint Burst is really only good for hard-countering the stealth potential of certain killers, and for correcting screw ups in your positioning when the pallets nearby are already broken. It used to be broken overpowered but now I think it's the worst.I woudn't say that Dead Hard, Lithe or Balanced Landing are better or worse than eachother. It depends on which map you're on and what you want out of your exhaustion perk. But Sprint Burst is unquestionably the worst.
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Adrenaline definitely feels overpowered when used by a 4 man SWF who are all running chase extending perks like Decisive Strike. Individually, on a single survivor, it isn't such a big deal. I think I'd be fine with Adrenaline if Decisive Strike didn't exist. But that's how I feel about playing killer in general.
Edit: I've always found that in this game, survivors set the meta and killers react to it. We run perks like enduring to counter pallet looping, Nurse's Calling or sloppy butcher for self-care, and so forth. If you find that the majority of your survivors are running Adrenaline, and are making it to endgame, it may be time to start running NOED and perhaps another endgame perk like Remember Me. Clutch healing and speed boosts do little when it takes 50 seconds to open the exit gate and you can oneshot them.
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@Bbbrian2013 said:
@The_Manlet said:
They're not going to go back and tweak already released licensed killers like that. It's a real legal headache. It's the same reason we'll probably never get new cosmetics for them. The most we can hope for is that they'll put more effort into licensed killers going forward, assuming we ever get any. I'm not so sure we will.While we're on the subject of lobby music, they really should just give us a choice of which music we want. There's no reason to force us to listen to Clown music for several months.
They could also do chase music for their own killers.
That's true, but I don't think they can sell that so I don't see it coming anytime soon. Still waiting on that Decisive Strike rework or fix to the hatch standoff. They were testing that publicly more than half a year ago.
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They're not going to go back and tweak already released licensed killers like that. It's a real legal headache. It's the same reason we'll probably never get new cosmetics for them. The most we can hope for is that they'll put more effort into licensed killers going forward, assuming we ever get any. I'm not so sure we will.
While we're on the subject of lobby music, they really should just give us a choice of which music we want. There's no reason to force us to listen to Clown music for several months.
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@jackmadrox said:
My opinion on DS is this: It's not OP, but it's really annoying and at times, game breaking.If it's game breaking then surely it must be overpowered. Game breaking is worse than just overpowered.
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Decisive Strike is the most brokenly overpowered perk in the game by a wide margin. Losing even one hook at the end of a long chase can cost the killer the whole game and the survivors can do it four times in a single match at no cost.
Also, there's nothing situational about Adrenaline. Unlike NOED, where you would prefer to kill the survivors before they even finish the generators, for a survivor repairing the generators is the primary objective so Adrenaline should always be kicking in.
But the real issue with Decisive Strike isn't even that it's overpowered, though it is. The real issue is that it's a slap in the face to the killer. They won the chase fair and square but the survivor gets away for free. It's bad game design. It punishes the killer for doing their job. Where is the killer perk that lets them kick a fully repaired generator to shut it off completely? -
@Watery said:
The_Manlet said:@Watery said:
The_Manlet said:
Rotten Fields is the game's ultimate proof that it's just a casual party game at its core. The map was designed without any regard for how it blatantly favours and disfavours certain killers. Whenever I land on this map I just accept that the outcome was predetermined by whichever killer I am playing or facing. Or... the design was preconceived, as the farm wouldnt be completed without some sort of crop. You can see the movements of the survivors running through the corn, if you play a tall enough killer. The concept for the map was first developed- then the actual development for the map itself. Take an excerpt from the dead by daylight wiki. “Now it's abandoned, but still, someone seems to care for the corn in some way as the stalks still stand tall.”
This was meant to fit how the Hillbilly (a decently tall killer) managed the crops prior to the entity’s reimagined version of it.
Are you arguing that I am wrong in that they intentionally designed the map to favour Hillbilly and screw over some other killers? That still essentially makes me right in principle.
No. There’s like no pallets, that’s the tradeoff. Just track the survivor based on moans, bloodtrail, or scratchmarks.
That's fine if you're playing something like Wraith or Hillbilly, but try playing Huntress and have fun tracking them when they can start urban evading away as soon as they hear the lullaby. But that's not even what I was getting at. Try playing Myers on Rotten Fields. You basically can't even use your power.
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@Watery said:
The_Manlet said:Rotten Fields is the game's ultimate proof that it's just a casual party game at its core. The map was designed without any regard for how it blatantly favours and disfavours certain killers. Whenever I land on this map I just accept that the outcome was predetermined by whichever killer I am playing or facing.
Or... the design was preconceived, as the farm wouldnt be completed without some sort of crop. You can see the movements of the survivors running through the corn, if you play a tall enough killer.
The concept for the map was first developed- then the actual development for the map itself. Take an excerpt from the dead by daylight wiki. “Now it's abandoned, but still, someone seems to care for the corn in some way as the stalks still stand tall.”
This was meant to fit how the Hillbilly (a decently tall killer) managed the crops prior to the entity’s reimagined version of it.Are you arguing that I am wrong in that they intentionally designed the map to favour Hillbilly and screw over some other killers? That still essentially makes me right in principle.
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@DwightsLifeMatters said:
The_Manlet said:@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Don't use crutch perks like NOED.
Once you have DH 3 stacks it's already over for the survivors, so it doesn't matter.
But it's absolutely fine that at least 50% of survivors are running Adrenaline, the survivor equivalent, right?
Nice strawman. Wanna talk about the weather while you are already on it to go offtopic?
What strawman? NOED is a counter to adrenaline, one of the most popular perks. If you don't bring NOED they will probably get away thanks to Adrenaline. The two perks are inherently linked. Telling killers to not use NOED is basically just telling them to accept that if the survivors power the gates then they are entitled to a victory then and there even though the match isn't over yet.
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Rotten Fields is the game's ultimate proof that it's just a casual party game at its core. The map was designed without any regard for how it blatantly favours and disfavours certain killers. Whenever I land on this map I just accept that the outcome was predetermined by whichever killer I am playing or facing.
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@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Don't use crutch perks like NOED.
Once you have DH 3 stacks it's already over for the survivors, so it doesn't matter.But it's absolutely fine that at least 50% of survivors are running Adrenaline, the survivor equivalent, right?
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Being hit with Decisive Strike, particularly by someone who wasn't the obsession and thus there was no way to know it was coming. I don't disconnect though, I just settle for tunneling and camping that one player and generally making sure they have no fun for the rest of the match.
Whether you have fun as killer is pretty much entirely dependent on how much Decisive Strike is in the match. Even a 0 kill game can be fun as long as the survivors don't have a get out of jail free card. -
Any killer can be usable at higher ranks. It depends on how much the survivors want to win, whether they're SWF, their skill and the map RNG. That's a pretty empty statement.
Freddy is one of the worst killers in the game. He cannot be mid-tier.
A single Decisive Strike can cost the killer the entire game. The survivors can do it four times in a row. They also pair the perk with anti-slugging perks like Adrenaline and Unbreakable, so you can't even play around it. -
Legion is broken on a fundamental level and needs to be completely reworked. They're the worst addition to the game since Decisive Strike and incredibly unhealthy for the game. After that, Freddy needs a rework. Then Leatherface. He should be more than just a crappy version of Hillbilly.
After these reworks I'd look at quality of life improvements to Pig, including making some of her addons baseline. Along with this I'd look at Myers' addons. He has a lot of completely useless addons. Almost all of his good addons are rare. The jewelry addons that improve movement speed while stalking should do something different or be buffed significantly and the yellow and green mirror addons should be completely reworked. I'd make them enable multi-survivor stalking. With Myers you currently either bring in a specialized build with at least one very rare or ultra rare addon, or you throw on some stalking addons, some EW3 extending addons and/or a dead rabbit. Myers' browns and yellows are almost useless, whereas on most killers there are some solid picks even among brown ubiquitous addons. I'd also improve his stalking on maps with corn and other vision blockers. It feels very unfair that some maps are intentionally designed to discriminate against Myers and prevent you from stalking someone in plain sight. -
I've been running BBQ, Ruin, Make Your Choice and playing around with the fourth slot. NOED, Sloppy Butcher, just about anything can be good.
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I'm not expecting anything bigger than what the Doctor got back in the day, but I'd prefer they make a completely new killer out of him. Freddy has no interesting mechanics, arguably doesn't even have a power, all he does is tag people and then chase normally, and his power hurts him more than it helps him. Despite all this he's not fun to play against because it's difficult to hide and impossible to escape, forcing a genrushing and looping playstyle out of the survivors and a tunneling or slugging playstyle out of Freddy.
And thematically he doesn't really embody Freddy either. He has no power once he brings people into the dream world, his world, which for some reason just has some fog. They could have at least given it the boiler room effect. -
I've got the Huntress outfit. I'm not sure which I'll get next.
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By far most interested in the changes to the Spirit.
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@Dreamnomad said:
@The_Manlet said:
Rancor is trash as well, yet for some reason is ranked highly. Bamboozle is significantly lower than Unrelenting of all perks. The list is a joke.Feel free to show me your list.
Killers are different from survivors in that they all play differently and while certain perks like Ruin and BBQ are no-brainers on any killer, others vary depending on the killer in question, making it impossible to rank perks objectively. Make Your Choice is fantastic on some killers and useless on others. Half the Myers plays run Monitor and Abuse, but how often do you see it on a Hillbilly?
We can however be sure that some perks, like Unrelenting and Fire Up, are almost worthless, while other perks like NOED and Bamboozle are almost always great.Edit: Why would anyone care about Rank 1 versions of perks? Why would anyone even want to rank those? You need to understand that everyone who read this thread assumed you were ranking how effective perks were at rank one matchmaking.
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Rancor is trash as well, yet for some reason is ranked highly. Bamboozle is significantly lower than Unrelenting of all perks. The list is a joke.
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Dribbling only works if they're the obsession and they are dumb enough to get themselves downed right next to a hook. Granted, a lot of decisive strike users are that dumb, but many aren't. Enduring isn't a counter. It reduces the stun time but they still get away and get to loop pallets unless you're a Clown and they're the obsession. Rancor kind of almost maybe works as a counter if the survivor is dumb enough to get caught at the end when they know you're running Rancor, but it does nothing against the other three survivors. Slugging isn't a counter, it's just making the best of the situation.
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@SwampGas13 said:
Can't you just reduce the size of the skill check by a percentage based on the number of people who have the perk?Holy crap best idea ever.
People who use decisive strike use it every single match. You can make that skillcheck as hard as you want, it won't change anything. They've had hundreds of hours of experience hitting it.
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I lost any hope of ever seeing a change to Decisive Strike when they introduced Rancor. They must know that the most toxic, annoying elements of the community rely on Decisive Strike and that nerfing or reworking it (it should have been totally scrapped and replaced like Tinkerer at least a full year ago) would cause a tidal wave of tears that would make every other anti-survivor change since the game's launch put together look small by comparison.
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@Boss said:
Hmm.
What if the non-Obsession version of Decisive Strike requires you to have gone through 2 hook phases before being able to use it?
Meaning you'd have to be pulled off a hook twice before being able to use it.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i based this on me remembering that they wanted this Perk to be a "last resort" of some sort.
What last resort is more fitting than being carried to your 3rd hooking, right?This would also mean that Survivors who didn't get pulled off on the 1st hooking can't use it, but maybe i should make an exception there...
That just means everyone gets a free escape near the end of the match, say, after the gates are open, instead of at the start. The only way to fix Decisive Strike is to acknowledge that it never should have been a thing in the first place and rework it the way Tinkerer was reworked. It's so bizarre seeing people complain about Self-Care, a perk that is mandatory, and which is countered by plenty of killer perks, when crap like Decisive Strike exists.
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@DarkWo1f997 said:
It doesn’t matter to me what they do. It’s not going to change very much anyways.Decisive Strike is a game changer. Everyone gets to escape once per match for free, meaning you essentially need to get a minimum of 4 hooks per player.