The_Manlet
The_Manlet
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I hate that stuff both when I play survivor and killer.
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They just bought the rights to the game back from the original publisher, and have only just started caring about balance. They have no intention of letting the game die any time soon.
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@Visionmaker said:
@The_Manlet said:
Survivors will never be scared of the killer because most killers are not a threat.With that attitude, killers should be scared of Survivors.
They absolutely should be. Survivor perks are more powerful than killer perks, and survivors can put the killer in a no-win situation where he can't even pick a survivor up without getting stunned and them going free, yet at the same time he can't just go over and hit the survivor because he's safe and can speed boost to a safe zone to heal while his two buddies hang around with their flashlights as well, ready to heal the guy up in seconds as soon as he is ready.
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Survivors will never be scared of the killer because most killers are not a threat.
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I don't think you'll have to wait this long, or have much of a wait at all, again. This wait took so long because of the store and microtransactions being added to the game, I believe.
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The Pig just needs a few quality of life improvements, reworks to her addons (with some of them becoming baseline) and the Sprint Burst nerf. She doesn't need a big change to how her power works.
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One change I'd make is making that ultra rare addon that prevents them from seeing the boxes until the clock is ticking part of her base kit rather than a rare addon. The addon should instead require a significant amount of time on the clock to have passed before the aura will be visible.
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For me it's the Pig crouch-walking right past you without noticing you when you didn't even know it was the Pig yet.
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Is that still happening? I'm only seeing those tooltips for Clown now.
Anyway:
Trapper - no immediate indication, but if you see a trap...
Hillbilly and Leatherface - chainsaw, rather easy to tell which of them it is just by the sound.
Nurse - blink
Myers - no immediate indication so you need to keep an eye out, but you get a warning at EW2
Hag - no immediate indication
Doctor - screams within twenty seconds of the match starting
Huntress - massive lullaby radius
Freddy - he'll sleep someone almost immediately
Pig - you'll spawn right in front of a jigsaw box
Clown - no immediate indication but you can hear the bottles from a mile away and see the mist as wellSo half the killers reveal themselves in the first 30-60 seconds and the ones who don't you tend to always assume are the killer until proven otherwise.
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@ShrimpTwiggs said:
I bet if the killers had the ability to destroy every bodies self care by kicking over a totem, a good amount of survivors would say it's OP and the devs would nerf it the same day.Absolutely. Same as if killers had perks as powerful as Decisive Strike or Sprint Burst they would have been gutted a month later (hello, Michael) rather than receiving small reworks two years later.
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M.Cote and the developers literally stated it’s nothing more than a bragging rights perk. It was never meant to be useful, or synergize with other perks. They won’t buff it because it was never intended to be useful.
That sounds like the sort of thing you come up with when you realize how fundamentally awful a perk is and don't want to put in the work to fix it.
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@Mc_Harty said:
I'm with @Runiver on this on. Nurse is badly designed. Does not matter if she is hard to play or not. No killer should have that much power, period.When she was introduced, infinities plagued the game. Nowadays there are not so much of those or killers have mechanics to help stop them (Window blockers for example). Nurse was already nerfed, but she still remains strong simply because no other killer can compete with her mechanics. Especially when running NOED or Make Your Choice with her. It's simply borderline OP.
I find it ironic that most players here are fine with the Nurse having the power-role and be frustrating for the survivors in general yet are against when the survivors frustrate the killers in general. Really shows you the bias on these forums when they don't want their side to be touched for whatever the reason.
I think people acknowledge that the Nurse is broken, but they don't want her to be nerfed (can she even be nerfed? How do you nerf a fundamentally overpowered character?) because she does to the survivors what the survivors do to every other killer except for maybe Hillbilly at high ranks. She controls the game. She's the only control killers have. Nerfing the Nurse before bringing every other killer up to Hillbilly or Huntress levels would not be fair.
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It's a step in the right direction, and the new killer and survivor are neat. I'm more looking forward to the next chapter.
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Generators are fine. Maybe you could slightly reduce the rate at which group repair/toolbox repair works, but other than that they are fine. The issue is how long chases take at high ranks due to skilled survivors having the ability to 1vs1 the killer due to the killer being mostly reactionary and only able to capitalize on survivor mistakes. Level design needs a complete overhaul.
Making generators take longer is a crappy band-aid that will just make the game more boring.
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Borrowed Time was added to remove the killer's power at the hook and incentivize not even bothering to stay near the hook and just allowing free unhooks. Every single player who had it was running it. Afterwards it got reworked to a perk that is mostly just for farming with WGLF with a clear conscience and getting your buddy out after the gates are open.
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I wish I could get back into the Nurse, but they changed a lot of how she works during the time period I wasn't playing and I just couldn't adjust.
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@JarJarBlinks said:
Eh, i've read through most of these posts and it's always the same. People trying to downplay Nurse as a easy killer to play. What SovereignKing says is very much true. If you've got 30 hrs as Nurse you really have no valid say on the matter.Now, to the topic at hand; Reach Rank 1 one time just for the achievement and leave it at that. That way you can play any killer you want and have fun. Staying at high ranks is not much fun anyway, trust me. Too much toxicity and tryharding SWF's.
Killers I would recommend other than Nurse would be;
1. Hillbilly
2. Huntress
3. MyersYou don't really have a choice in whether you reach rank 1 unless you're willing to intentionally throw every other match and just AFK for half of it after you hook everyone once to get your BBQ stacks.
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Clown. Huntress can be fun to play too but I'm not very good with her. I used to be pretty good with Nurse and played her a lot but I didn't play the game much in 2017, they changed a lot in terms of how Nurse plays during that time and I lost all my skill with her and she's really far behind on perks so I never got back into her.
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@powerbats said:
Well played clowns will destroy pretty much anything in sight, especially on more wide open maps since they can nail the choke points pretty easily and throw pots at gens in distance.Throwing a bottle at a generator at a distance doesn't do much but reveal the survivor was working on it. By the time you get there, it will have run out and then they'll sprint burst away. You can nail choke points, but unless you're right behind them they'll still get to wherever they're going. There's always a pallet or window in reach.
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
@TheChanelOberlin said:
I just don’t find him very enjoyable, only killer I proper enjoy is Freddy as I have him fully loaded out with game lengthening perks and also because he naturally slows the survivors down a fair bit.
i think I’d enjoy every killer more, especially Clown if gen-rushing wasn’t such a rampant issue, 4 gens to down a single person at times because of loops also is a bloody joke /:No offense but if they're getting four gens done while you're completing one chase, you're playing Clown wrong.
Not really. Four gens is actually two gens, and generators can be completed lightning fast if Ruin is not in effect or multiple survivors group on one generator. Even with the Clown's tonic, unless you're running top tier addons you can still get looped for days since pallets are still pretty safe and can be looped around even while slowed.
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@TheChanelOberlin said:
I just don’t find him very enjoyable, only killer I proper enjoy is Freddy as I have him fully loaded out with game lengthening perks and also because he naturally slows the survivors down a fair bit.
i think I’d enjoy every killer more, especially Clown if gen-rushing wasn’t such a rampant issue, 4 gens to down a single person at times because of loops also is a bloody joke /:Freddy doesn't really slow survivors down at all. They'll get a skill check within seconds of being put to sleep if not being chased, so you can only pressure one at a time, and even then you can't pressure them as well as any other killer.
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He's probably the fourth or fifth best killer. Problem is, that doesn't count for much. The majority of killers are not viable against good survivors unless running great add-ons, and the Clown is no different. The game's balance is so broken that even being fourth best means you still suck.
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@Brady said:
Hold on, are Killers really calling tunneling a valid tactic then going on about how pallet looping takes no skill?Let us spill the tea folks.
I would like a lengthy explanation on how skill is provided from wacking an injured survivor unhooked less than 12m away from you. From my experience play as a Killer, unless the survivor is hooked right infront of you, there's is no reason to chase them back down again and ignoring every single survivor in your path just to kill off one. Many of skillful Killers I've played against optimize switching targets and usually down and hook them, causing more of a stop to the progression of the game. Not to mention, multiple hooks on multiple survivors scream skill more than multiple hooks on only one survivor or vice versa (Multiple survivors hooked once).
"But... they are the easier target. Why wouldn't I go after them?" Here's your answer: Assuming they have Self Care, that is time that a generator is not being worked on. Time that if you're skilled enough, they get on a generator and the other survivor should about to be hooked. And the process should continue on.
Why do you all whine victim? It's established that tunneling, camping, and looping are all effortless tactics. The worst part is you ALL defend them and whine about them at the same time. Both parties want easy games and you guys are getting selfish, rude, and greedy about it. 4 BNPs = No skill, Tunneling an injured survivor = poor skill, looping around 5 pallets after another = less skill. Stop defending these poor tactics because they have great results.
And Survivors are really guilty for it, but it's more present with Killers of the fact that you guys complain about survivors tactics and abilities and go on to defend your effortless ones. You guys attack people who are 50/50 Survivor and Killer, and this entire forum is just complaining about complaining about the people complaining.
Pallet looping takes no skill. It's just running around in a circle around a pallet. Now, chaining together those pallet loops with window loops and maximizing your loops and minimizing the loss of pallets, that takes skill and is highly unintuitive.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Cetren said:>
Wait, quote "I don't care about the emblem or the BP... I want to have a fun game."Now keep that in mind and read what you just said.
You're flat out contradicting yourself. You just want killers to handicap themselves for your enjoyment.
There is nothing contradictory about it dude, because a fun game is one where everyone has fun and doesn't need to grind against pure nonsense tactics. You can kill everyone and not camp hooks if you are actually a good killer. You seem to be missing that point. Also the fact I let killers get free hits so they chase me preeeeettttty much means I'm handicapping myself. And sometimes when killer takes the bait I have escaped. Sometimes I don't and they hook me. But if you are seriously going to play the "I'm handicapping myself card" note that I literally throw myself at killers because I want them to not tunnel. I'm giving them the hit and the chase to show them it's not necessary.
The game is fundamentally set up in such a way that it isn't possible for everyone to have fun. If you died, you probably got tunneled, depipped, got almost no points and generally didn't have fun. If the killer didn't kill anyone, then he obviously isn't going to have fun because he wasn't a threat at any point in the match.
RemoveSWF, the reason survivors don't do generators is that the bloodpoint and ranking systems force you to do unhooks if you want to profit. A match where you rush the generators and get out while the killer camps may as well be a loss.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@The_Manlet said:
Only a handful of top tier killers such as Nurse and Hillbilly have the potential to play catch and release 12 times in a row. Most killers are weak, far weaker than competent survivors, and they need to eliminate a player as quickly as possible. Tunneling sucks but the game's balance mandates it.On the old system this would be an excuse, but killers can pip without killing a single survivor. I know I've done it. Not saying it was the most fun game, but they all got away and I still pipped.
So give me another excuse because that doesn't fly anymore.
No one cares about pips. If anything killers don't want to pip. Survivors don't want to either because once they get to high rank it's the same killers (both the character and the player) over and over and over again. A pip is not a win, and a pip is not necessarily fun.
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Only a handful of top tier killers such as Nurse and Hillbilly have the potential to play catch and release 12 times in a row. Most killers are weak, far weaker than competent survivors, and they need to eliminate a player as quickly as possible. Tunneling sucks but the game's balance mandates it.
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I just call them their titles, except for Myers and Freddy whom I refer to by name, and Leatherface. I call him Leatherbilly.
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Probably a 4. The game is good on a conceptual level but the fact that it's literally impossible for most killers to win against a good group of survivors makes the game a joke. There's a reason you see nothing but Nurse and Hillbilly at high rank.
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@powerbats said:
@Nos37 said:
"New Sprint Burst nerf is an absolute joke"Chasing survivors in a circle for several minutes is a joke, yet it's been a "feature" of the game for a long time
So's camping and tunneling, it's no fun for survivors either even though both have been a feature of the game for a long time. If they fix one and then the other killers are gonna whine they can't face camp or just go outside of terror radius then come zooming in and get 2 downs. Cough Billy/Nurse cough.
It won't matter if they balance it or not the small minority of whiners will still come onto here and whine how it's not fair while the majority will simply do what they've always done.
THEY ADAPT.
Nurse and Billy are pretty much the only killers who don't have to camp and tunnel like that. No other killer is going to win, or even get any kills, running around playing catch and release 12 times.
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@Jack11803 said:
@The_Manlet said:
Just to suffer.Why are we still here? Just to suffer? Every night, I can feel my D-strikes and my t-bags... even my stuns... the pips I've lost... tempers I've lost... won't stop hurting. It's like they're all still there. You feel it too, don't you?
I've gonna make them give back our machine gun.
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Just to suffer.
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Just to suffer.
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@ELVENDORK said:
@Lowbei said:
the changes are fine.adapt or die.
survivors adapted since release.. killers on the other hand are still playing like they did back in 2016
What did survivors adapt to? The removal of infinites? Because they've been running the same meta perks since the beginning of time. Meanwhile none of the meta killer perks or playstyles from 2016 are meta today.
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Nurse has the highest skill ceiling but it's not very hard to get reasonably proficient with her, and once you do that you become as strong as the next best killer played by a pro. You don't even need to master her to do very well. Nurse is absolutely easy mode. Try a good build like BBQ and Chili, Nurse's Calling, Make Your Choice and a fourth perk of your choice, and see how easy it is to destroy the lobby.
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Admit that what you really want is the Clown.
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Bond
Urban Evasion
Windows of Opportunity
ShadowbornModern stealth game build.
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As a survivor it is rarely a good game unless you escape. If you didn't escape, it means that 9 times out of 10 you got tunneled and camped. If the killer didn't do this, you probably wouldn't have died.
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Nurse is the only killer that can win against really good survivors who are also in SWF. Without good SWF, or without really good survivors, some of the more mid-tier killers can still compete at high rank, just don't expect an easy win. But you cannot "outskill" and defeat great survivors with Wraith, or even with Myers, no matter how skilled of a killer you are. They rely on survivors making mistakes and capitalizing on them. With optimal play the survivor will always win against something other than Nurse and can 1vs1 the killer until the generators are done. Even the known best killer mains, tournament winners even, will tell you this.
If you insist on Myers or Doctor, Myers is the better of the two because all Doctor can do is find people easily, make skillchecks a little harder and force earlier pallet drops. Myers can at least one-shot people and even kill them with the right addons.
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No, the effect of Ruin is not super strong. Good survivors hit skill checks in the great zone at least half the time and the ones who aren't good can just gen tap, which is not that much slower than standard repair. Ruin barely makes any difference against good survivor teams. It has a moderate effect on mediocre ones until it gets destroyed 2 minutes in, and a great effect on bad teams. Ruin is a perk that rather than granting the killer power, or removing power from the survivors, just makes things a little harder for the survivors. But with skill they can overcome it. You can't overcome the killer breaking pallets faster or being able to oneshot you after you unhook someone. You can't nullify these things. Ruin is a bad perk. Yet you still need it to have a chance.
I'll add on to this: Ruin would be weak even if it weren't a hex perk. Even if you couldn't disable it and just had to deal with it, it would only have a serious effect when used by already top tier killers, because they have the power to put pressure on teams.
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@TeambossFloze said:
I almost never pick ruin and I have decent amount of enjoyment when playing killer. killer players seem to think they need the crutch of Hex ruin to slow the game down and it does to some degree (unless found immediately) but by no means do you need it, just don't use it anymore?Which killer are you playing, and at what rank?
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Mindgames aren't really possible against good survivors. They'll know which loops are mindgameable and will drop them sooner rather than later. Killers are purely reactionary.
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@Brady said:
Can we just clarify something?You all complained about how Sprint Burst needed a nerf, not exhaustion.
You all complained Sprint Burst completely broke down Killers like The Wraith and The Pig, not Dead Hard, Lithe, or Balanced Landing.
You all complained with multiple threads titled "Sprint Burst is OP", and not once have I seen a "Lithe, Dead Hard, and Balanced Landing are OP".
Sprint Burst needed a balance because it was used under no conditions, where as the rest were conditioned perks. Dead Hard? Injured. Lithe? Chase + Vault. Balanced Landing? Some maps only have 1 hill.
I'm all for balancing, because Sprint Burst is too strong, but eh, I don't see a point in using any other exhaustion perk if they're all going to be that much worse compared to Sprint Burst now. I'm probably not the only one.
Sprint Burst will now get you an initial speed boost but won't help you mid-chase, whereas Lithe could let you lose the killer and Dead Hard could let you avoid the hit that would down you. Sprint Burst currently does all of this, and is the only perk where you'd usually find your exhaustion wearing out mid-chase. It's not the perfect nerf but it's better than the usual band-aids we get.
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Face camping isn't a thing anymore. You can bait a killer into hitting you by breaking the unhook action and then unhook. With multiple people everyone gets out through body blocking.
Ruin is actually incredibly underpowered. The fact that it is still absolutely necessary despite this is a testament to how unbalanced the game is.
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Pallets are still overpowered and killers can still be looped until the cows come home. You just have to drop them one loop early.
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The funny thing about Ruin is that isn't even a good perk. It relies on survivors being bad at skillchecks or not knowing that they can tap through it. And yet, you still need it. That's how broken the state of the game is right now.
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We either need an additional objective or we need survivors to not be nearly invincible gods in a chase capable of looping the killer around while 3 people work on generators. The killer role is reactionary and once the survivor reaches a certain level of skill it becomes impossible to catch them before every generator gets done. Killers are limited by the mechanics of the game while survivors are practically unlimited. The best way to fix this is to change the level design and make more loops, pallets and windows mindgameable so that skilled survivors can buy time but will eventually make mistakes and get downed by skillful killers. The reason you only see a handful of killers at high rank is that those killers are the only ones who have the potential to catch people in good time, and that's because they have the potential to contest these loops. Every other killer is a cripple.
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You're supposed to flail when the killer is close by, I believe. Slow vaults are due to the angle you're approaching the window from. You need to be running at the window pretty much dead on to get through quickly. This is why, when shack looping, you want to generally jump the window from inside. Jumping from outside, and getting a fast vault, would require that you move further away from the wall so you could set up a 90 degree angle window jump, allowing the killer to catch up in that time. You don't need sprint burst to loop but it's the best exhaustion perk. Once the nerf comes through, it will exist mainly to deny the killer the first hit and won't help during the chase.
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I think they should just buff the shard gain with each devotion level. Otherwise the system is pretty pointless.
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Level design is probably the biggest issue with the balance, even moreso than perks and items. But it's a lot harder to adjust that stuff than it is to nerf perks.
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Killers will stop dodging when they stop being faced with 4 man SWF with overpowered items versus a killer who wouldn't be viable even against item-less non-SWF.