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  • @prion11 said:

    I have been playing dbd since the beginning of february now. I am almost iridescent 1 on killer, which I main for 80% of my games playing pyramid head, trickster, and pig. I basically only play survivor for dailies or if I have friends that want to join.

    Let me explain some things in detail:

    1. I do not facecamp. Facecamping is bad strategy. It gives the other 3 survivors tons of free time to do gens and find my totems.
    2. I DO tunnel. I tunnel A LOT. If I hook someone, go check a couple of gens, then get the unhook notification, I am going to chase them both down and then choose to hit the person who is injured. Most of the time, that is the person who was just unhooked. If both are injured, I'll hit whoever is closest.
    3. If there are only 1 or 2 gens to go and I have someone on second hook, I'm not leaving. I will not stand in front of them without moving, but I'm not leaving the area. Can you convince me that there is a better play than this?
    4. If I am leaving the area to patrol gens after scoring a hook and I see someone lurking for the save, I am no longer leaving. As pyramid I can get an easy punishment of the damned collateral. With pig I can stealth around the hook and get an easy grab. That's not camping, that's the consequence of bad survivor play.
    5. If I am chasing an injured player who has been unhooked, I will completely ignore healthy survivors that are clicking flashlights or trying to block me until I down the injured survivor. If someone is actually impeding my progress by standing directly on me, I'll take the free hit. But as soon as I take that free hit I am back to chasing the original, hook stated survivor.
    6. If I am up against a team running a sabotage/flashlight save strategy, I will leave people slugged all over the place until the flashlight or toolbox holder is out of commission. Why would I not, if it just removes the effectiveness of the items that were brought? Yes, unbreakable is a risk, but I rarely see more than one person running it at a time recently. It's usually DH BT DS and then either Iron will or CoH.
    7. In conclusion, as killer every decision you make takes time. Your time is worth 4X more than a survivor's time. But kicking one player from the game as soon as possible knocks that value down to 3X. Which makes it easier to knock down to 2X. And so on, this is how the killer wins. In my eyes, this is efficient gameplay.
    8. Perks like devour hope, BBQ, and make your choice incentivize a more run and gun playstyle away from your hooks. I know that they exist, but I'm not here to farm bloodpoints with BBQ. I am here to hit rank 1 ASAP

    I will await your responses, as playing like this gives me consistent 3 and 4ks, and consistent elo and mmr boosts.

    I'm primarily killer but play quite a bit of survivor (30% to 40%) but here's my opinion.

    1. 100% agree. The survivors want an efficient use of their time and you want to prevent efficient use of time.

    2. Whether tunneling is efficient depends on a few factors? Are they running DS? BT? Is there a COH up? If someone unhooks in front of me I slug the unhooked and go after the unhooker. That's a minimum of 3 survivors completely occupied; one slugged, one heading to heal, one on hook. If you just hook the previously hooked you now have two survivors instead of three tied up (the hooked and one unhooker) or just one (the other survivors just go and do gens).

    3. Proxy camping is the best play most of the time here and the most likely scenario. If you move too far away you lose the gen so you'll probably hook close by. However, you can rehook a survivor but you can't undo a completed gen. Prioritize as necessary

    4. Unless a gen is about to complete there is no practical reason to leave. If you do you're being nice but there is no reason to leave if someone is lurking right by. If you can handle hook swarming you may be able to hook trade or slug enough to end the game right there.

    5. They're trying to prevent the unhooked from getting hooked again. Unless DS or BT is in play the only practical reason to switch targets is if you can down someone else faster or if you can get multiple injuries. Your goal is to waste survivor time; chasing a good survivor could be a waste of time. Good loopers are a lot easier to kill once their friends are dead.

    6. Slugging is a great way to slow survivors down. It also gives altruism points for healing when picked up. I like slugging and being slugged.

    7. Depending on the circumstances tunneling is not always the most efficient way to waste time. If the survivors have BT and DS then you BT takes 12 seconds at least, DS takes 5 seconds plus the chasing time. Also, only the tunneled survivor needs healing so only a unhooked and unhooker. In the best case for you there is one injured survivor, one healing the injured, one hooked and another trying to unhook ergo nobody on gens. That might be more valuable than another hook state on the unhooked survivor

    8. Spreading out hook states and doing a lot of chasing is more efficient to get to Iridescent One. It's based on emblems, not MMR. Forcing a higher MMR makes getting to Iri One harder as you get harder matches and less hooks (not hook states) means less emblems. If you want MMR then playing in the most efficient way to get MMR hinders your ability to get emblems. You can be low MMR and still Iridescent One. So, you just have to decide what's more important to you; increasing your MMR or getting to Iri One.

    Pretty much both tunneling and camping are dependent on both the circumstances and the goals you want to achieve. They might be the right call, they might not.

  • I think I've died twice as much from 99ing doors than I've been saved. I totally understand doing it when there are 4 survivors and one just got hooked but quite often as soon as a survivor gets off hook if they have to open the doors while in a chase with the killer they're done for. If the door is 99ed then please have at least 3 survivors (one unhooker/protection hit person, one unhooked and one by the door to finish opening it as soon as the survivor being chased is close)

  • I'm about 60 to 70% killer on my play time but here goes

    1. DS and, to a lesser extent, BT is really helpful for pipping up. You lose out on BP and probably depip when tunneled and camped so they're really needed at times.

    2. I don't know why but it seems like tunneling and camping is rampant at certain times and not as much at others.

    3. Depipping on solo queue really sucks because RNG plays such a large factor in some games.

    4. I only rarely join a group and never use comms but I've noticed that playing in a group, even without comms, does increase your survival rate since your teammates will actually try to save you.

    5. I can't stand teabaggers anymore on survivor than I can on killer.

    6. When a killer has a really bad match and I try to give them a mercy hook they sometimes don't believe me and occasionally think I'm mocking them.

    7. This relates to point 6. I wish survivors had more emotes than just simply crouching, pointing and beckoning. It would be nice to say thanks by doing something besides crouching because that could look like you're teabagging instead.

  • Small game, Counterforce and Detective's Hunch is the perk loadout of champions.

  • I think I've seen the video they're referring to. It's one of Otz's more recent endgame build videos if you want to see it for yourself

  • @fulltonon said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2820396#Comment_2820396

    If they are good at chase you will lose no matter what, what happens when there is four survivors who can chase for at least a minute? you will lose, doesn't even matter what you do or bring.

    There is pretty much no situation tunneling become sub-optimal, unless survivors has weak link which shouldn't exist or used as foundation of strategy.

    Tunneling can be sub optimal. It will have less sub optimal situations than camping but it definitely can be. Try out leaving some survivors slugged instead of tunneling and see if you get more pressure that way.

  • @fulltonon said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2820384#Comment_2820384

    That's two down from over altruism, no different from 3king in basement bubba.

    No "good" survivors waste their time by bodyblocking or flashlight save, they will stick on gen and go to save once someone start chasing.

    eating DS is much better than playing around DS because you only need to commit four chase to kill a survivor, and if you done it quickly, you are pretty much guaranteed to win with slowdown perks and 33% increased pressure on survivors.

    And if they're good at chase your strategy has just lost the game. That's why I'm saying it's not always the best option. Thinking that camping and tunneling is always the solution just means the Killer is losing games they could have won if they realized that circumstances warrant changing your strategy to match the circumstances.

  • @fulltonon said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2820365#Comment_2820365

    Because realistically you can't down two people at same time, only nurse can achieve that.

    without removing one of survivors quickly, you will make no progress toward goal of killing survivors, even if you slug four people at once they can very well come back and 4e if they have unbreakable.

    I do down two people at the same time often. I down someone, look for the survivor going for the flashlight save or bodyblock, down them, see if there's a third to down and then pick up the first. Slugging puts more pressure on the survivors and nothing says I have to pick up someone as soon as they go down.

    Unbreakable doesn't work that well either unless I commit to a second chase. Otherwise, they stand up, I smack them down again. Also, if the whole team comes in I now have three survivors injured and one on hook. That's more pressure.

    If I play around BT and DS by getting the unhooker, I've also just wasted two perk slots. I also now have a survivor who needs to heal and another on hook. And if someone says they're high MMR but BT and DS aren't super common perks for the survivors I doubt they're high MMR.

  • @playhard said:

    I play killer , im tired from office . I just want to have fun, but I play with a sweaty swf squad. Do AFK is fine ?

    AFK is not fine but set a win condition for yourself and stick to it. Maybe 5 to 8 hooks until you kill someone or everyone gets one hooked first and the rest of the time you just slug and run off to find the next survivor. Your games will be hell until your MMR drops but, when it does, you'll have relaxing games.

  • @fulltonon said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2820207#Comment_2820207

    Because if you give 400 seconds of free time across all survivors, gate will be powered and all remaining survivors will escape.

    You have to pressure survivors long enough while killing at least one of them quickly, because normal killers realistically can't pressure more than three survivors at once.

    even if you keep one hook one chase for entire game, a survivor is always free and can finish gens to end the game in roughly 7 minutes.

    It will be even faster because there is three survivors free during first chase.

    Yes, if survivors keep a hand on gens they will win quickly but this is precisely why camping and tunneling are not always optimal. If a Killer is camping a survivor and it would be hard to extricate the best move is to do gens.

    1 person hooked, 1 person going for the unhook and two on gens means a faster game for the survivors. One person on hook, one person slugged and one person in chase means either two survivors are about to die or no gens are being done.

    Similarly, two survivors healing, one on hook and one in chase also means no survivors on gens.

    The only reason facecamping works at times is because the survivors go all altruistic and nobody goes on gens.

    Tunneling is a different story but if you have a survivor healing another survivor and then one in chase then there's only one on gens. If the Killer runs by a gen and the Killer doesn't abandon one chase to chase the person on gen off the gen then the loss is on the Killer. This is the most common mistake I see when I solo queue.

    Also, if the person being tunneled is a good looper or the survivors brought borrowed time, decisive strike and know how to take protection hits tunneling is a lose proposition for the killer.

    The Killer's strategy has to change with the circumstances. I'm unsure if you're saying camping and tunneling are viable strategies, which quite often they are against solo queue survivors or overly altruistic SWFs, or if they are viable strategies all the time which they definitely aren't.

  • I'll leave a serious comment too. I'm going to use a game I just had to show the problem with both sides argument.

    So, the killer tunnels out a person right at the beginning of the game. They spend so much time tunneling that three gens get done. The killer then starts going for me and one gen gets done and part of the last while I run the killer. The last gen gets done while I'm being facecamped on hook not less than 15 meters from where I was hooked. The two other survivors know what they're doing so one distracts, the other unhooks, the killer targets me trying to go for a 2K, I get flashlight saved, and I book it out of an exit gate. End result? 2 hooks, 1 kill, terrible BP for the killer.

    If the killer had applied even a little bit if gen pressure that could have been a 4K. I mean, it would have taken 3 seconds to walk over to a gen and the killer didn't. Instead, the survivors did the gens uncontested and now the player of the killer may now feel gen speeds are too fast. Regardless of if they are or not, if no gen pressure is applied gens will be fast.

    Now, on the survivor side, when people are being unhooked I see, quite often as both survivor and killer, people unhook and then let the unhooked person fend for themselves. Survivors are a team; take protection hits and hook trade if needed. A killer can tunnel all they want but if people work as a team then the killer can be delayed enough to get at least some of the survivors out. Being facecamped sucks but don't blame the killer; take the protection hits, hook trade and watch your escape rate increase.

    Also, if you gen rush, that's great if you find it fun but, in my opinion, you can't really complain about queues or the grind if you play in a way that's unfun for the other side and gives the least BP. In my opinion, that also applies if you facecamp and tunnel as well.

    I think MMR has made people sweatier overall but, honestly, it's a number we can't see and doesn't give us anything in return. I don't care myself but some people do so try to see things from both sides because both survivors and killers are only reacting to game mechanics. No shaming please.

  • I remember in my day when the Entity would make me walk barefoot through snow to the Trials uphill, both ways!!! Lazy killers these days...

  • Trapper is still one of my favorites. Watching teabaggers run into a loop I trapped is one of my favorite Dbd experiences.

  • Playing optimally in DbD quite often implies a playstyle that is not fun for the other side (and sometimes for their own side as well), denies the other side BP, and may cause them to depip. That's a large reason why it's complained about. This is possible to change.

    There are more survivors being toxic since there are more survivors and people feel more emboldened in a group. This is very difficult to change.

    This is not the fault of the player using optimal strategies; it's a design issue for BHVR to fix or ignore as they see fit. The player shouldn't be blamed as the player has no control over how the game is designed. Attacking the players of either side over how they play the game is unwarranted.

  • @jesterkind said:

    Surely at least someone rapidly strobed a flashlight in his face?

    Well, there were some lights but the baby survivors didn't even bring the right add ons. Next thing you know, we'll see nothing but complaints about how the movie is too killer-sided.

  • This may be an unpopular opinion but hard tunneling and camping is a trap. It allows people in the short term to 3 or 4K more but that places you against people who are more likely to escape (ergo your matches get sweatier). In the long term, you end up in matches you have to tunnel and camp in because otherwise you would get stomped.

    I avoid tunneling and camping and I get escapes in games I could have had kills but my games are pretty chill overall. Also, the level of survivor toxicity I see has diminished greatly from before MMR (possibly since there are now more people tunneling and camping so a killer that doesn't is more noticeable). I still get toxicity at times but it's far less.

    I don't care about gaining in MMR though and actually view rising quickly in MMR in this game to be a punishment. I care far more about pips which gives me more BP and is something I can actually see.

    Also, the part which makes my position more viable for me is that I don't derive the majority of my fun from winning. For the people who do, the current state of killer is abysmal. Also in my opinion, Otz was completely correct when he said this game is balanced if you use the dirtiest tactics. However, those tactics imply doing something that diminishes fun for the other side.

    Overall, I think the best thing would be for BHVR to make facecamping and tunneling really difficult and, at the same time, buff Killers enough that people won't need to camp and tunnel to win.

  • @MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:

    Question on title.

    Why i am asking this question? Because I've seen opinions that survivor gameplay is braindead and simple. Is it really?

    I mean repairing generators are easy and does not need skill for sure. But what about looping? Also good teams know which generators should fix first and give big area to killer for last 3 gens. This strategies really does not need skill? What do you think?

    Definitely. As stated above, people quite often overlook positioning, decision making and tactical thinking over straight forward obvious displays such as looping. If people don't think it requires skill try to get to Iridescent One as solo queue, not SWF, solo without having your head explode from frustration.

    I do agree, though, the skill floor is higher but the skill ceiling is lower than killer. However, anyone who says survivor doesn't require any skill is incorrect.

  • I don't do that. 90% of the time if you're the last person hooked and I find you I slug and l leave you for your team to pick up until I've hooked someone else. The other 10% of the time you're continuously trying to go for flashlight saves and deny me BBQ stacks (or you're a teabagger whose looping skills weren't as good as my chasing skills).

    I'm really soft as a killer but if you deny me my BBQ stacks I will sacrifice you and salt the earth under you. Don't mess with the BBQ.

  • @xxshyguyxx said:

    I can honestly say today was the worst day I have ever had in the five years I have been playing this game.

    I've been playing all day as killer. Choosing different killers off and on and swapping perk loadouts. Going in just wanting to have fun, not caring about winning but more so about hooks and good chases.

    It's been gross all day with the exception of a few matches. Just the worst you can imagine. Swfs full meta loadouts, purple flashlights, tons of toxic taunting and teabagging, tons of macro machine gun flashlight clicking. Just awful.

    My last game of the night takes the cake. A 3man swf and 1 rando at coldwind. They dropped the coldwind offering. I was Nemesis.

    Now the stats will show great things. I scored a perfect game. 8k around the board. 32k points and a 4k. Stats will show I wrecked them.

    However....

    What I went through just wasn't worth it. It was one of the top 5 worst games I've had in a long time.

    These disgusting players came in with the intention of simply making me miserable. All 4 had dead hard. All four had borrowed. 1 had break out. 3 had purple flashlights and two had that annoying macro machine gun clicking.

    It was a game of pure chaos and bullying taunting, clicking, tons of insta blinds, a few locker animation unfair blinds and loads of teabagging.

    The match lasted ages. They got down to 1 gen. And I slugged the last 3 down 1 had unbreakable but luckily I was close enough to knock them back down.

    There they sat, while I pushed the headache from my eye sockets and waited.

    They were messing with me. That gen could have been done. But instead, they dragged it out just to flashlight stun, and break out stun as much as they could.

    This game had turned into a disgusting abuse fest. Survivors don't play the game anymore. They taunt and abuse as much as they can.

    I see this so much lately and its breaking this game. The devs have given Survivors so much power they are bored of doing gens and instead torcher killers instead.

    This will go unnoticed bc stats say it's a perfect game.

    It wasn't.

    It was one of my worst.

    They've broken this game. And honestly, I don't know how they can come back from this. It isn't healthy.

    I'm taking a break playing killer. They seriously need to address the power role here. It's gotten out of hand.

    I 4K most bully squads because they waste so much time but the problem is, as the OP stated, is that the game is not fun nor do I want to play.

    Unfortunately, BHVR, as stated by a dev, does not feel that this is toxic behaviour so your only choices are to try to ignore it or just stop playing Dbd. That hinders growth of the game which is why I really don't understand why BHVR feels that way but, unfortunately, while BHVR does feel that way nothing will be done.

    Sorry OP, I hope you get better matches.

  • Plaything is great on PIg. I really like Plaything on Myers as well.

  • 1. Both survivor mains and killer mains have some legitimate complaints; not all but definitely some are very valid

    2. Everyone should play both sides a lot before commenting on balance on any level higher than the new player experience

    3. NOED hurts new killers in the long run

    4. A to S tier killers are okay but any killer below that needs buffs

  • I was wondering if this was a fashion item for Bubba when I first read it.

  • Legion is the worst. Legion's power helps prevent survivors from being downed. Canceling their power is like eating a mini DS.

  • It helps the survivors when the killer won't drop chase and tries to target the strongest looper. Strong loopers are much easier to kill when their teammates are dead.

  • @deKlaw_04 said:

    You know I used to be a straight survivor main when I got the game in July last year. Then In November I gave killer a try with demo and enjoyed it. I go into this game wit 2 hooks and all the gens are done. And I can’t believe I have committed a sin. I used noed. I camped and I got a 3k (no pip tho). @ThiccBudhha has given me some wise word of advice. Let the hate flow through you

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7QFWA29DA9SD/58f26f24-91ab-47e5-bb4f-426c744cfaca.jpeg

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/THLMGY6OW2GG/ca0b18fd-60b9-42ec-9218-0b616116bf69.jpeg

    I used to play nice but now no. Lmao seriously why do people go out of there way to message someone over a game. Pretty hilarious with the weak insults

    You went from November to February before you got a salty survivor?? I don't think I made it past my first hour or two when I first started playing. Congrats on handling it so well.

  • Solo queue survivor since depipping can be caused by many factors outside of your control.

  • If 20% of the people in queue are killers it works.

    If it's less than 20% queued for the killer role the old system was better.

  • When chasing someone by a generator listen for the sounds of someone repairing (if you don't recognize the sound yet you will) and if someone is there chase them off. You can reinjure survivors, you can't regress an already completed gen.

    Play a few games as survivor to learn where survivors loop and like to hide. Then as killer look there or anticipate their movement. Some of my favorite DbD moments involve watching a tbagging toxic survivor run straight into a loop I trapped at the beginning of the game.

    Strong loopers are much easier to kill when their friends are dead. Drop chase if it takes too long.

    Don't worry about winning at the beginning. Learn skills like how to use your power, chase, when to drop chase and how to spot survivors. Future you will really appreciate it.

  • Three gens is a necessary strategy for low mobility killers on larger maps or those with lots of pallets and vaultable objects. Without it, their only other recourse is hoping the match making gave them potatoes or trying to get a kill through tunneling and camping (which is far less fun for survivors in my opinion than a 3 gen).

  • @FFirebrandd said:

    Ok... and here's why NOED is a good killer perk and should stay more or less as it is.

    It's simple honestly. How do you suppose it feels to be a newbie killer who keeps getting matched against survivors clearly too good for them for multiple matches in a row and not get any kills? It feels terrible. That sort of experience is the sort of thing that will get a player to quit early and never come back.

    Enter NOED. It's a common perk, so odds are decent that new killers will get at least tier 1 of it early. It is the best common killer perk in the game and one of only a handful of good ones. AND best of all... it can give a floundering killer a morale boost by helping them out a ton at the end of a rough game to get another hook or two and maybe a kill (or more if the Survivors mess up).

    In short... it is acting as a massive bandaid to the terrible experience that being a newbie killer is. It is good how it is and should stay how it is.

    The problem with what you just said is that the killer then gets matched with survivors that are too good for them consistently since MMR only measures kills. The horrible gameplay at the start is now a permanent, and not a temporary, fixture. Short term gain, long term pain. If this were the Emblem system it would be different since more than just kills were taken into account but it's not.

    @fulltonon said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799032#Comment_2799032

    Even if survivors play smart, killers can secure 2 kills pretty much no matter what, and up to 3k if they make even one mistake.

    And MMR DOES NOT exists, killer matches won't change if they win or lose because there is no such things.

    Killers can't get two kills for sure at every level. That's a myth. I even managed to save someone from a facecamping Bubba who couldn't catch me for 5 minutes. And I'm not that good of a survivor; I play killer far better. Tunneling facecampers at whatever level my survivor MMR is are generally getting one kill, sometimes none, and sometimes a couple more depending upon my teammates. Tonight, I played six games to pip up from Gold One to Iridescent Four before the 13th, got killed twice and every other game was a 3 or 4 man escape. I solo queue.

    Every killer except one camped and every except two tried to tunnel. Two killers had decent chasing skills and the rest could be run for several minutes; one of the two only caught me since I didn't have exhaustion perks for most of the matches.

    The one thing I have noted as common is that Killers I've versed that camp and tunnel, not 100% but the majority, don't know when to drop chase, spread out pressure, chase right past survivors on gens instead of listening for gen repair sounds and then hit the survivor off gen, and get their blinders on. That's fine, everyone makes mistakes and has to learn, but they shouldn't be at the MMR they're at and the only way they got there was the effectiveness of NOED and facecamping against new survivor potatoes. You don't need NOED against new survivors; low levels of play is the only time that DbD feels like it favors the killer.

    It also artificially inflates kill rates at lower levels and, if that data isn't taken out of the equation, makes it look like Killers have it better than they actually do.

    New killers having NOED doesn't help the game and makes it worse in my opinion. Personally, I think it should be locked behind a killer so that a new player has to get that killer to level 40 and, while still very green, has at least lost one shade of green.

  • @fulltonon said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798985#Comment_2798985

    It really isn't, it's pretty much first hook and perks.

    If the survivors play smart that's a 3E at least. If the survivors don't play smart it's a one way ticket to match making hell with the MMR system and a painful climb out. It wasn't such a problem before with emblems in my opinion since the Killer wouldn't rank up very much doing this. With MMR, it puts the killer at a much higher MMR than a level at which they can enjoy the game.

  • @RaSavage42 said:

    Yea NOED is complained about a lot from both sides (I don't even run the perk)

    Also if a Killer is "winning" and doesn't need it then why throw hate at them?

    I agree and also if a Killer runs something like Blood Warden, NWO, Remember Me and NOED and manages to 4K the Killer either outplayed the survivors or the survivors made a huge mistake especially after running 90% of the match effectively perkless. There's no need to throw hate.

    It's like when I called out a survivor when I was solo queue for insulting a killer who didn't camp or tunnel while any gens were up but did camp at the end game. The salt thrown by the other survivor was completely uncalled for; what did you expect a Killer with only four hooks each one spread out to do if they want to salvage a part of their game? Understanding the other side's point of view is a good thing in my opinion.

  • @Barbarossa2020 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798973#Comment_2798973

    I agree with what you're saying Noed can reward bad players and thus encourages them to not "get better" and so does camping to a degree, but camping is controlled by survivors, they can ignore it and leave thus not rewarding the killer.

    Both sides have crutch perks, i just see survs having 3. Why dodge a hit when you can use the b/t hit? Why dodge a hit when you get picked up then use d/s ?

    why pick your loops better when you can d/h to the next loop.

    It goes both ways easy enough.

    It does go both ways, I completely agree. DH is much too effective and can be a crutch for bad loopers. I also agree BT and DS weren't intended to be used offensively. I just mentioned NOED because it can cause a lack of fun for both killers and survivors and newer players can get NOED quickly as a General perk while BT, DH and DS are locked behind different survivors.

  • @TruEternity said:

    Most games have some type of play style that is effective at low/mid levels, then hits a brick wall of progress. While NOED can enforce bad habits, it’s up to the player to learn and grow. It’s very common for players to use something easy and effective to succeed at beginner levels.

    A portion of players will probably be content with getting kills, and will give up once they reach the plateau that their strategy no longer works. I think as long as there are tools to help players improve and overcome those plateaus it’s fine. In general DBD offers that, but in does take effort on the players part to learn.

    TL;DR: NOED is fine, players will develop bad habits while learning a game, it’s up to them to overcome and learn good habits.

    @SunsetSherbet said:

    If the killer was so bad and didn't deserve any kills, then you had plenty of time to ignore gens and do totems. If the killer was putting so much pressure on you that you couldn't really do that, then he deserved his kills.

    You know what else messes up kill rate data and is far far far more common than NOED? Hook suicide. Maybe that should be removed.

    I'm not attacking NOED as a perk. I'm saying that it's not well designed and, ergo, not fine. It gives newer killers a tool that's too effective and, with the MMR system, raises their MMR too quickly. Suffering through enough games that their MMR drops and they can learn good habits would be hellish.

  • @fulltonon said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798966#Comment_2798966

    Not the case in DbD I think, camping is a "skill", and since camping is most effective strategy in this game, most skillful way to play this game is going that way deeper and deeper.

    Knowing when to camp is the bigger part of that skill set and newer players just facecamp. Thus, they don't develop that skill. And, yes, match making is miserable and will remain that way until killers receive enough changed that 20% of the community will queue as killer.

  • @Barbarossa2020 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798960#Comment_2798960

    However, bt/dh (ds) is a crutch for new survivors and puts them in a situation where their long term skills don't improve. As it's overly effective at any MMR it quickly puts newer survivors against much better killers when they haven't learned how to loop, when to drop pallets, how to spot windows, how to set up a 3 or 4 gen, etc. Once there, the only way out is to lose lots of matches but bt/ds and dh will secure one escape; possibly two leading to a lot of terrible matches before the player learns how to play more effectively.

    You don't really seem like you're even considering what I said but rather trying to turn this into a 'us vs them' discussion. Both killers and survivors should enjoy the game and killer needs a lot of help right now since not even 1 in 5 players is picking the killer role as evidenced by the ever lengthening survivor queues. However, ignoring design flaws that partially contributed to that won't help fix any problems

  • @WeenieDog said:

    Idk. Dbd is a heavily perk oriented game. Both sided are coddled by perks, but noed is ,imo, at the bottom of the list of "instant skill" perks.

    I think the bigger question is "does dbd have to be skillful?"

    I would say it's more fun when it's skillful and it's also more fun when it's played in the manner that gives more BP. I like outplaying cocky survivors but I wouldn't have the skills to do it if I just used NOED and camped from the start of the game. I can't remember which guide it was but I read that you should try to develop those skills first and my games are for, the most part, enjoyable.

  • @Barbarossa2020 said:

    So the same as b/t d/h and d/s as a crutch for bad loopers?

    I wouldn't argue about DH for beginners. I run without exhaustion perks most times so I'm forced to loop better. DS and BT though have nothing to do with looping and only exist to give a player a chance to actually play.

  • @Sluzzy said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797498#Comment_2797498

    We can't say that high MMR is unplayable for killer but then turn around here and say a killer that is good like Otz is not representative of high level play. Something doesn't add up.

    Nobody knows if they're at high MMR or not. What can be said irrespective of MMR is that the killer experience is lacking. If the killer role were able to attract the consistent attention of only 20% of the player base survivor queues would be instant. Instead, survivor queues are lengthening. Killer is struggling and needs something if in a game where you can play as movie icons not even 1 in 5 players wants to touch the role.

  • Yes, on RPD the survivor can run through a hole on the wall that then proceeds to fat shame the killer (I was playing Clown when I found this out)

  • I regularly get games as solo queue with killers who can't catch me and have one yellow or green perk. I mainly run meme builds and quite often don't have an exhaustion perk either. That's not fair match making.

  • I like vs MM because of this add-on. Until I see MM hit Tier 3 and hit someone else preferably I run like a bat out of hell as soon as I spot Myers since I'm scared of the killer. I want tension in my games.

    Also, when playing MM I find Fragrant Tuft to be a lot more rewarding than Tombstone. Tombstone requires quite a bit to activate and if your teammates play cautiously instead of tbagging in front of Myers it's a lot more difficult to pull off and you only get one kill with each usage.

  • @ThiccBudhha said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2791704#Comment_2791704

    No, no, no. We can't buff a killer as oppressive as Pig. All we need to do is nerf this.

    I used to joke about nerfing Clown since I like Clown but he's so weak. See where that got me...

  • @PNgamer said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/308868/i-think-scott-junds-video-nailed-it-on-mmr

    Your opinion and the opinion of many others I respect of course, but I also have one about the MMR. Imagine if the MMR was calculated differently, (hook counters for example) then there would be almost only farm rounds in DBD and no losers. This does not work at all. The developers made the right decision here in my opinion. Maybe the MMR is not perfect yet (BHVR still work on mmr), but many other players and also a Scott Jund should finally understand that. It's like in soccer. Victory is victory and to achieve it you need skill! ( that's why sbmm, no matter if solo or swf ) Nobody asks how high you won. Whether 10:0 or 1:0 that does not matter. The only thing that counts is the victory and you achieve it by escaping or killing.

    Thanks for your input. I think solo survivor MMR is different from killer MMR though. A very competent, but altruistic, survivor can be put against a baby killer as their MMR drops a lot although they are highly skilled. Eventually the survivor is at a point where they can run circles around the killer. I think the suggestions for a team based MMR increase or loss being factored in are the best route to go.

    Killer MMR has its own problems but that, in my opinion, is mainly due to too wide of a net for MMR. As an asymmetrical game though each side can have different issues since their basic premise is so different.

  • I think the easiest thing would be just to code it so at least one survivor has a different box than another survivor. It's totally a strategy to mine salt but there's only a 1/16 chance of it working and a much higher chance you just threw the game so I don't see it being high priority.

  • I still don't see how DMS gives that much more value than Deadlock. When a gen is blocked it doesn't regress; Cheryl's perk Repressed Alliance blocks gens as well so that the gen can't be regressed to protect it from the killer. If regression could take place DMS would be incredibly strong but it just stops the gen at the point it's at for right now and encourages survivors to work on multiple gens at the same time (which is a downside for the killer).

  • Unless I'm running aura reading perks I'd rather go to Haddonfield then the Swamp

    If a survivor asks for mercy I always give it

    When I get tbagged at a pallet, I like camping and tunneling that person out. After tunneling them out, I let the remaining three survivors farm BP off of me and hope the tbagger is spectating

    As solo survivor, if I want to pip up in red grades I use map offerings a lot

    Also, if I care about pipping up in red grades as solo survivor I 99 gens. It makes pipping up easier

    I'd escape a lot more though if I didn't try to save everyone as much as I do

  • @bacon said:

    What is the least to pip from gold to red for things to do? so i do gens a couple of rescues a good chase and no pip or to much objective or not enough and to much chase and just get average and no pip it just dont seem to be enough any tips for solo survivor Thanks

    Do you want Iri 1 or are you fine with Iri 4?

  • @BadZilla said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785681#Comment_2785681

    everything you said is very accurate and yes it is a flawed system just playing to win will screw you quickly it's terrible to play in a way that won't let you win since that's the goal just randomly chasing and patrolling is not effective at all and makes it easier for survivors to win and as a new player I need more blood points and shards and winning is the only practical way to speed it up

    If you want more BP a game with 8 hooks and 0K will give you more than a game with 4 hooks and 4K. Level Leatherface if you have him to get BBQ and Chili and then run that in a match. If you hook everyone once you're looking at about 50K per game. Also, with more escapes your games will get easier and you'll make more BP even if most of the survivors escape.

  • It sucks to be on the receiving end of it but the killer might have just been being smart and using you as bait. I'll explain why. Why didn't your team do gens to pressure the killer to leave? I didn't see a single person doing gens.

    I also saw a rush of survivors trying to save you. By going to kill would be saviours the Blight might have been going for a 4 slug to end the match.

    Also, with how low your bleed out count was it made sense to camp you specifically since nobody was doing gens so if you bled put the team would have 3 gens left and only 3 hands; that's a pretty strong indicator of a 4K.

    I don't think you did based on your forum personality but if you BMed and tbagged at a pallet the Blight might have also just been slug camping you. When I see a survivor tbagging the killer and then gets slug camped, honestly, I don't even bother trying to save them. I just do my gens and take my escape BP. That's as a solo queue survivor; a killer would be even more annoyed.

    It's possible the killer was just being petty because of Boil Over and being slug camped does suck but, strategically, it was the right move since your team were too focused on you and not enough on the whole game. If gens had started popping the killer would have had to think if they secure one kill or take a chance on getting more kills which would have been better for you overall.

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