TheSubstitute
TheSubstitute
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I disagree. When the gods in their own minds tbaggers that get caught and DC on their first down DC even more since they would have no DC penalties the solo survivors just trying to pip up would be punished even more.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1382513#Comment_1382513
I think letting ppl bleed out is reportable as it goes into holding game hostage.
It's not reportable since the survivor will bleed out completely so the game is still progressing. If somebody has body blocked someone into a corner and (emphasis on and) won't let them leave that's reportable since there's no way the game can progress. That's my understanding at least.
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Eventually you'll get to a point where facecamping might not even get you 1 kill. From there, your MMR will be high enough, and your chasing skills underdeveloped enough, you'll lose a lot and get more and more frustrated. If looping stresses you out having hook saves and your loss rubbed in your face on a regular to semi-regular basis will feel worse.
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Trapper with any of the add-ons Iri Stone, Tension Spring and/or Bloody Coil is fun. Otherwise, I only really enjoy Trapper on Swamp since it's really hard to see the traps. Trapper really needs workable camouflage and/or something to either reset traps or discourage survivors from disarming traps
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Unless you're saying something that's a racial slur or would get someone charged with uttering threats if it were said in real life the developers don't seem to think it's toxic. The toxicity comes from the top down.
The developers have spoken out more strongly about farming (they don't like it) than they have people whose only goal is to make other players miserable.
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@OpenX said:
I mean, you are the one that signed up to murder people. Nobody said it was gonna be easy, or that the survivors had to just lay down and take it.
You can't play as the bad guy and then complain people treat you like the bad guy.
This is a video game and the person playing killer is not actually a killer.
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You're not complaining about Pinkie Finger; you're complaining about camping. Rather than trying to nerf one of the weakest killers, why not address camping instead?
In any event, a Bubba without add-ons can camp better than Clown with an Iri add-on anyway. Clown needs buffs; not nerfs.
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I would very happily take CoH's old healing speed, if once I snuffed out a totem, that totem could not be reused for a boon. That way my games wouldn't feel like a movie titled 'Trapper and the Planet Of A Million Boons.'
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I hit both again this month but solo survivor is much harder than killer to get Iri 1 because there's so much more RNG involved. Did my team leave me to one hook? Was the killer AFK? Did the killer chase me for most of the game? If so, that's probably a depip at Gold to Iri grades. Is the killer out matched so I'm not healing or getting hook saves? Then I'm probably not pipping.
I am a lot better at killer than I am at survivor but getting Iri 1 feels inevitable for me as killer if I play a few games per night. However, as soon as I hit Iri 4 as solo survivor I stop caring if I pip up since it's so much more frustrating. It feels a lot easier to depip than get enough opportunities to pip up at Iri.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
Here is the thing they can't do anything to punish the Killer for being too close to the hook because then it can be exploited by Survivors. Most probably forgot that they did try something where if the Killer remained near the hook they the hook timer paused, this caused Survivors to bring the chase around the hook to freeze the time indefinitely.
They will have to find a way that can't be exploited or abused.
Out of curiosity, did they try reenabling the hook timer if the killer is near but a survivor that isn't hooked is also near?
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I don't want visible MMR numbers myself. There's too much elitism and toxicity in the DbD community already.
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@TheGrimQueefer said:
Is there any attempt by BHVR to process basic algorithms which accurately captures skill in this game?
Or is their own private game strategy proxy camping because they don't have the balls to face camp?
Just punish the killers achieveing rank because they dont depart 30m from hook.
"Gens get done too quick" Yeah, because you don't pressure them
Proxy camping is inevitable in most matches with a low mobility killer. If the gen spread is too wide, you lose. If you go too far from the gen spread you're defending, you lose. You can, on a low mobility killer, run away from the gen spread or go to a far off hook and let survivors unhook and heal in peace but then you're deliberately throwing the game to be nice.
I think facecamping is a terrible strategy that fails against intermediate survivors and up but, unless there's a viable way for killers to cover a large gen spread (which most killers don't have), proxy camping is going to happen whether the killer intended to proxy camp or not if the killer wants a chance to win or at least not lose quickly.
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Infinite Myers with Hex: Plaything
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2844790#Comment_2844790
See there's the key sentence "When MMR works" lol, not trying to come off rude, just saying
There's definitely a reason I said when. If lower than 20% of the queued players are queued as killers, the MMR system goes more and more out of whack as it starts prioritizing queue times. During prime times, MMR seems to be working for me on the killers I play the most. The lower the number of killers queued below 1 in 5, though, the more out of whack the MMR, thus, more killers stop, MMR gets more out of whack, etc
Not camping and tunneling for better games also won't work for a long time if killers have been camping and tunneling since that has inflated the killer's MMR beyond what they could get through chasing and the killer will need a string of losses to lower their MMR until they can have enjoyable games again.
Player frustration, though, is not a good way to incentivize players in any game. So, my opinion is, as I stated above, Free the Nerfs! Nerf camping and nerf gen speeds at the same time. You can't nerf one without nerfing the other without completely shafting either killers or survivors.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843703#Comment_2843703
Uh...no, I'm pretty sure you have to, talk to the gen speeds
You don't have to. When MMR works it ends up matching you at a level where you can get 4Ks on some games without camping or tunneling. You can't expect 4Ks on every game but you will get a healthy amount.
The design flaw is that requires that the killer player be willing to accept that they will lose games they could have won otherwise in a PvP game and also accept that toxic teabaggers will leave the exit gates when they could have been killed otherwise. Many can't accept that and they shouldn't have to accept that in a PvP game.
I say change the balance. Nerf camping. Nerf gen speeds. Free the Nerfs! Both have to be nerfed at the same time though.
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I'm reserving judgment until I have the information perks I have on her but, so far, she feels, in my opinion, a bit better than Wraith or Freddy but still on the weak side overall.
I like her chase and teleport a little bit more than Wraith and Freddy but not a lot more.
Her Condemned power feels like it's a non-factor both playing as and against her. The best way to avoid it seems to be just ignore the TVs. When she teleports through it she's visible and has a sound effect so as soon as I hear it, when playing survivor, I just start running to a tile. As soon as she gives up chase or moves somewhere else I run back to the gen. So far, I haven't had to touch a tape at all.
The shorter time to Manifest from PTB feels smooth and is a good first step. I think she'd be unplayable with the PTB Manifest time.
She's spooky so I really like that but, so far, she doesn't feel threatening.
It's too soon to say as people are still getting strategies as or against her but, so far, I'm leaning to her Condemned mechanic needs a buff (such as maybe a slow passive build-up irregardless of holding a tape or within the vincinity of a TV so survivors have to touch a VHS tape at least once during a match).
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@TwistedTripwire said:
Hey guys, this is my first post so sorry for any mistakes I make.
I’m a relatively new killer main, I basically only play killer (not a big fan of the survivor playstyle). I’ve been playing for a little over 3 months now and there are some things I just wanted clarification on or to have some kind of discourse about.
I realized that there are a lot of unwritten rules in this game, all of which seem to be directed towards killers exclusively. I don’t really understand the concepts of tunneling and camping, in a lot of the instances I’ve been accused of doing these things I feel like I was just playing the game in the way that makes the most sense.
The game has mechanics that actively encourage me to do things I’m apparently not supposed to? It feels like survivors are often relying on me to follow some kind of “killer code” because I notice them making many decisions that make no sense to me then they flame me for doing things that, in my mind, only make sense.
For instance, if I just hooked someone and can see another survivor approaching the area or hiding nearby to unhook them and I patrol the area I’m apparently “camping”? You’ve made it incredibly obvious that you are going to try and unhook this person, am I supposed to just play dumb and walk away?
Another situation is when a survivor will unhook their teammate right in front of me and I’m expected to ignore the injured survivor and chase down the uninjured one? I don’t see how that makes any sense, but apparently if I go after the obvious target I’m “tunneling”?
I’ve even been accused of tunneling by chasing already injured survivors who may or may not have been unhooked, even when I was nowhere near the hook when they were pulled off. Am I supposed to just ignore the injured survivor or something?
It feels like I’m expected to actively act against my own interests or I’m somehow a terrible killer and person. I only ever see these types of rules directed towards killers, I never see any rules for survivors.
Should survivors intentionally mess up generators to alert killers to their location? Should they only drop a max of 2 pallets during a chase? Should they only vault one window during a chase? Should they not flash bomb or flashlight killers who are carrying a survivor? Should they not drop pellets on killers trying to pick up a survivor? Should they allow themselves to be downed when they’re injured and on the final hook stage?
Of course not, those requests sound ridiculous, survivors would be actively playing in a way that makes no sense for them and goes against their interests. So why are killers expected to do it?
I don't intend to come off as rambly or ranty, I just genuinely want to know why the game has these unspoken rules and why I'm expected to follow them or be considered a bad player.
There aren't any unspoken rules. Play how you want. That said, you need to decide if your focus is BP and pips or you want kills. For BP and pips, the best strategy is to hook multiple times, chase a lot and use your power a lot. The more survivors there are, the more opportunities to chase and use your power. Think of the survivors as big, juicy BP sandwiches that you want to savor. MMR, when it works, will overall keep your games at a level where you can do this.
If you just want to kill, you'll get worse BP since you're hooking less, chasing less and using your power less. You're wolfing down your sandwiches now and MMR, when it works, will make your games harder and harder overall.
That isn't explained anywhere so you have to decide which playstyle suits you best but neither is wrong. Just ignore complaints and play how you want.
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@jeremycarinio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2840789#Comment_2840789
because main killers want to kill 1 survivor early on the game. its the thinnest balance in the game, where if the survivors lose 1, its already a win win situation for the killers. no one really cares about the BP or rank, its about the game.
trust me, with the current matchamking system, ranking is the least thing gamers think about in this game.
I play killer about 65 to 70% of the time and I care a lot more about BP and my grade (which gives me more BP) than I do an invisible number that does nothing for me. Also, facecamping is a terrible way to take out a survivor if you want a 4K (unless the survivors are relatively new to the game).
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2840772#Comment_2840772
Because extra BP are extra BP. I camp with BBQ all the time and I just consider it a dead perk slot, similar to (old)WGLF.
Same with offering BP. Totally dead offering that could be a mori or a map but it's dedicated to the grind.
Why camp if you're worried about BP? You can eight hook with BBQ and Chili and get 57,600 BP without even killing a single survivor. With camping BP is terrible and you just get harder and harder games. Unless I'm BMed I never kill a survivor before the fifth to seventh hook and it's extremely rare for me to get less than 50K per game without offerings.
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@GannTM said:
Ended up getting my adept second try. She ok, but I think it’s time I move back to the actual queen of DBD :)))
Congratulations, I managed to get it tonight as well. It's a good feeling
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@KerJuice said:
You most likely ran into a killer who camps regardless of what killer he uses. Probably wanted to see how good she was at it. Don’t let her mobility surprise you as a reason not to camp. A lot of dumbass campers run Barbecue (which rewards you for not camping) but don’t go anywhere. They’ll stand there and get their 2K win, cause you know- Hockey. 🙄
The other one I don't understand about facecampers with BBQ and Chili is how you need to hook each survivor to get a stack. If you're not going to move and you're not going to try to hook each survivor why even use the perk?
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DS is amazing if you view DbD as a 1v4 rather than four 1v1. Being able to stun, get to another tile and add even more time to the chase means, if your team keeps at least one hand on gens (I solo queue so not a given) most of, if not all, of the survivors are getting out.
Where it doesn't help that much is when individual survivors don't care about their teammates or if the killer is that much stronger in chase than your team. That I've seen mostly in what I assume are MMR mismatches (in which your team is done like dinner no matter what) or killers that are spreading a lot of hooks around (people who practice chasing).
Endgame it's a guaranteed escape. DS is an amazingly useful perk. The only perk I can think of that's better is DH (which is overpowered in my opinion).
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To overcome a war of attrition bring either Pop, Pain Resonance or Jolt and slug a lot; only hook when you can. It then becomes a can you drop the survivors faster than they can do a gen. Also if there is a nearby boon totem snuff it. CoH allows for fast healing but if they have to run to get to it that effectively adds to the healing time.
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Nothing. If it's a large map with a low mobility killer it's a great idea. It's, arguably and depending on the circumstances, the best chance for a low mobility killer to win on many maps. I did that for my Adept Bubba, as an example, and went from 2 hooks with 3 gens done to 11 hooks and 4K with only 4 gens done by the end of the game.
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Most commonly, it's a terrible strategy if your goal is to 4K, get BP or earn pips if the survivors play smart. If the survivors, as a whole not singularly, are not of at least above average capabilities then the survivors will make mistakes and give the killer a 4K which makes it a good tactical decision if the survivors mess up.
As the killer rises in MMR, they'll run into survivors who that doesn't work on and get stuck floundering gaining and losing MMR until their chase and strategic play improve. At that point, they'll feel it is the only way to secure a kill and it probably is at that MMR point since the system only measures kills.
Or as @ThatOneDemoPlayer or @BasementDweller stated, the hooked survivor is in a 3 gen or there are other survivors around. If the Killer leaves at that point it's because the Killer is being generous and that should be appreciated and not expected.
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Proxy camping near a three gen is an extremely effective strategy. You don't want to leave the 3 gen since you don't want the survivors to break it. For low mobility killers, they'll probably proxy camp by default since they can't afford to go to a hook that's farther away. That is strategy which is a skill.
Tunneling is countered, or at least severely reduced in efficiency, by BT, DS, and other survivors taking protection hits, hook trading and the person being tunneled just being much stronger than the killer in chase. If none of these are in play, well, there's a reason why so many Killers tunnel.
Don't blame the players; they're just responding to game mechanics. If the above is to change, it's BHVR that needs to make gameplay changes.
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Trapper Difficulty: Hard
Trapper requires map knowledge, planning, strong gen defense of a 3 or 4 gen situation and predicting survivor movements more than most killers to be effective. While the base kit is easy in concept, knowing where to set up traps and successfully predicting survivor pathing and movements requires a significant amount of game knowledge and skill in planning.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2834026#Comment_2834026
I appreciate such a detailed post. It provided a really good insight into different areas of his gameplay and that's what I'm looking for. He definitely is a tricky killer to play. All the setup and future planning can be arduous and confusing when it comes to trapper's style of play. Tension Spring looks interesting, I've got that one on for my next game with his other UR that auto sets traps. He is fun, and a break from my usual anti-loop character choices. It's very satisfying to see your hard work pay off when you run survivors into your web or they stumble into your little gifts. I can see why Trapper mains enjoy him even if he may not be a 5 gen bully killer.
He is a lot of fun. One thing I forgot above that helps is to play some survivor if you don't already. By learning where survivors like to go, you get better at placing your traps. It's also extremely satisfying to watch a tbagger run away and think 'Yeah, that's exactly where I would have gone to get away if I were playing survivor. That's why I trapped it right after loading in'
Another perk I like is Hex: Blood Favour since a survivor getting trapped triggers it. That way, it's easier to catch would be rescuers and healers. I do run BBQ and Chili for the BP but it's the first perk I would replace on my load out if I weren't grinding since the info provided is of limited use on any low mobility killer.
What I see a lot of new Trappers do that's a mistake is not try to utilize all of the traps and defend too wide of a territory. On Trapper, and any low mobility killer for that matter, I find it very helpful to decide which gens I'm willing to lose and then defend a winnable layout.
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A few areas that are really good are an entrance and the window at killer shack. If someone runs in the untrapped entrance, then when you're entering set a trap at the door and, unless they can and do use their Dead Hard they can't get out.
There are some other loops and rooms that you can trap survivors in with no exits. The gen room in the Game with the bathtub, for example, or the garage on AutoHaven Wreckers (one side is narrow enough that survivors can't wriggle past the trap so if you go around the other side they pallet stun you, you break the pallet and they still can't get out since you trapped their only direction). If a survivor is there don't hit them immediately. Trap the entrance and then hit them. They lose collision with you but the survivor will get caught by the trap trying to escape.
Trap strong loops near the 3 gen. If I have Iri Stone I don't care if it's visible or not because seeing its trapped stops survivors from using the loop.
Also, traps can be a source of map intelligence. Traps don't disarm themselves so you know a survivor is in the vicinity.
A nasty trick with Iri Stone as well is for generators where only one survivor can work on them is setting a trap there, the survivor disarms it, and if Iri Stone rearms it while they're working on the gen it traps them immediately.
For early game, if at all possible, utilize all of your traps and keep one on hand. The first three gens or so will pop like popcorn but you're a low mobility, area defense killer. Set up your trap network.
Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance works really well with Trapper since you're too low mobility to have real map pressure and you don't have that much time for gen defense.
I also find Tension Spring catches people off guard since people assume that, once a trap is disarmed, it stays disarmed unless the Trapper goes there. Auto rearming traps are amazing since they save you so much time.
Bloody Coil is really good for deterring disarms but Honing Stone is incredibly useful.
When you can, watch Otz's Trapper videos and you'll learn a lot.
Sorry for the length but Trapper is a pretty hard killer to play and there's a surprising amount of skill cap with him. He's definitely not a strong killer but he's definitely a fun killer in my opinion.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2831615#Comment_2831615
Nah I believe you. You have surpassed me
Thank you my friend. I am glad to hear that since I, through my one random, specious forum claim, have single-handedly proven that are there no balance issues at all in the game. 4Ks with an addon less, perkless, bottleless, knife less Clown, all games, every game, after running barefoot through the snow to the trials, uphill, both ways!!!
On another note since I mentioned shoes, why does the Entity have such a foot fetish? Seriously, women do wear shoes.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
I 4k with trapper every game with no addons or perks. Also without traps in high mmr😤
I do that with Clown. With no bottles. And after Bubba cut off Clown's right hand. And left leg. 4K every match. Believe me. I said it on a forum so it must be true.
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If people are unsatisfied with a game they should mention something. The developers are paid to develop the game; the players pay money to play. Relying on players choosing long term gain over short term rewards doesn't work; if you want a gaming history example google what happened to Shadowbane. I
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@Krazzik said:
Why would killers split hooks when healing is as insane as it is thesedays? Five seconds after the person is unhooked they're gonna be fully healed anyway so may as well eat the DS and tunnel.
Here's an explanation. How long will it take you to eat the DS and BT? How many survivors are left free while you're chasing the survivor you just hooked? Probably quite a bit and three.
Now if you can down the unhooker in under 20 seconds, who won't have BT or DS active on them, and hook them instead how many survivors are free? You have a survivor hooked, one looking to get healed (which takes longer than 5 seconds even with CoH especially if they have to run to the boon) and potentially one trying to unhook the other person and possibly one trying to heal the unhooked. Bonus if, instead of facecamping, you tie up one in a chase.
In which scenario do the survivors get gens done faster? The one with three survivors doing gens or the one with less than three doing gens?
Camping works when all survivors abandon the gens. If the survivors are using game knowledge and have a desire to escape rather than mess around with the killer for fun you may have just lost the match.
CoH and mega heal speeds are frustrating but the more pressure on the survivors the more likely it is the Killer wins. Tunneling is not always the best way to do that.
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@Evilius said:
Just about 60hrs on the game now, played a fair bit of killer now (for my amount played ofc) feel like I'm noticing that even if all survivors manage to escape and I only hook one person once (with leaving the hook to look for other survivors) I STILL seem to get more bloodpoints than I see killers who camp do.. Makes it hard for me to accept the idea that people are forced to play that way to get points..
It may be vastly different at higher mmr but even so the amount of campers I run into as survivor with less than 60 hours played is astonding. Its at least every 3rd match.
You get more BP (and pips) by chasing and spreading hooks around than you get by camping. With 8 hooks and 0 kills you can get 29,600 BP if you max Deviousness and pip up to somewhere in Gold I think it is without ever killing a single survivor.
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@Krazzik said:
While there are certainly killers that go into a match knowing they're gonna camp and tunnel, I think most killers only end up doing it because they tried 'playing fairly' and it didn't work. They'll go and chase survivors, hook, chase another survivor but if it becomes obvious that chases are taking too long or survivors are being stealthy and hard to find then they sorta have to camp/tunnel off the hook to have a chance at getting anything done.
I've certainly had games where 3 or 4 survivors were amazing loopers, way better than me certainly. So after spending 4 gens getting one down, I camp the hook and end up getting a 3/4k thanks to altruism.
If that happens regularly, though, that's a great example of the problem. It's short term gain for long term pain. The more that happens, the more you can get paired with survivors that you have to camp to get a kill.
Then, eventually, you reach the point where it doesn't work and now you're in what I call MMR hell
For long term enjoyment it would be better to let the survivors go so you don't get matched with better survivors until you're ready for them. Thar means you might let some tbagging, BMing toxic survivors go at times which is, understandably, hard to do.
But, as MMR is based off of kills, it's incentivized to get those kills no matter what. It's a design flaw with MMR that leads to player frustration.
Personally, I think either the MMR system needs to consider more than just kills or the devs should consider making camping and tunneling harder to do and, at the same time, change gen speeds so that KIllers wouldn't need to camp or tunnel at any MMR.
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@Sharpefern said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2829601#Comment_2829601
I am saying it gets to a point where they not only will not get a single kill if they dont. They still wont get many hooks or much pressure or many bloodpoints. They will be getting stomped and their options are continue playing without using these tactics and getting stomped until their MMR is at a place where the survivors are at their level, or rely on these tactics have "okay" games but still notice that survivors are walking all over you in most of the areas of the game, still feels bad bro.
I am basically stating that if these tactics are used somewhat regularly by a killer they are going to be put into a situation where the game isnt fun because the people they are playing against will be so much better in most areas of the game.
Pretty much. In my solo queues I see killers regularly get 4 hooks or less and 0 to 1 kills so terrible BP and a terrible game. If the survivors screw up, sure, it's a 4K but quite often I see Killers focus solely on one person, try to power through BT and DS, have gens finished less than 10 meters from a survivor they're facecamping and overcommitting to chases. Tunnel vision loses matches.
Then, after a couple wins, I usually get sacrificed by a Killer that does more than catch one person, stand by them, and let the survivors do gens uncontested.
The point as Killer is not tunnel at all costs. The point is to destroy efficient uses of survivor time through pressure. Depending on the situation it might be the right call or it might not. I don't know why saying you should change your strategy to meet your circumstances is controversial to some but it is for some reason.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2829598#Comment_2829598
I’m the last Q&A stream, they said that they didn’t want to show mmr due to toxic elitism lmao
Cool, thanks for explaining. I didn't see it
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2829502#Comment_2829502
Incorrect I think the term was “toxic elitism” lmao that made me laugh hard in the stream
Which stream? Sorry, I'm not sure what the reference is to.
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@Sharpefern said:
Okay so hear me out on this. Can camping and tunneling be used to get 4ks, 100%. Is it effective for killers, also yes a lot of the time. As a survivor does it suck to see this, yes. So it would seem that its beneficial for the killer and bad for the survivor BUT here's where the issue lies. It seems this way.
Here's where things get tricky. Survivors will have to deal with that killer for 1 game, yes one annoying game, and if it works as an effective strategy the killer's MMR will go up, because they got the kills. but the killer is going to reach a point where this strategy provides less an less returns because while they are relying on it to "win" they are not getting experience in other aspects of the game with survivors actually on their level. They get into situations where by their first down 3 gens have already popped because the survivor they chased is much better at looping, dodging etc. because they are used to being up against killers who are stronger in those areas to make up for the lack of camping and tunneling. And then the killer will feel his only option is to camp/tunnel, and it still might work.
But as this cycle continues these types of games are going to get more and more frequent and the strategy is going to be less and less effective. Because they aren't learning/using the fundamentals of pressuring gens, map control, chases etc. while they are up against survivors of the same caliber, they are getting stomped in those areas and having to use camping/tunneling just to feel like they have a chance. And so they are doing the same strategy that for most people isn't thrilling gameplay. Eventually they will most likely quit because who would want to play every game like that.
In addition they are going to get so few bloodpoints because they aren't chasing, using their power, hooking multiple times, interrupting survivors etc.
I think that part of the reason the killer base is dwindling is because these tactics are still incentivized. That people consider the only "win" for the killer is 4k with gens undone. These strategies benefit the killer in their game but then hurt all of their overall future gameplay.
So yes in the game camping and tunneling are some of the tactics the survivors hate the most, but overall I think killers in general get hurt by these strategies more and that it has and will continue to have a lasting impact on the dbd community.
(I recognize that at top tier game play this does not apply but the vast majority of players aren't part of that top percent)
I agree with you and have voiced the exact same in posts so I know it's a not very popular opinion. However, it's an accurate opinion and sticks the Killer player in an MMR hell in the long term. It's definitely not the only problem facing Killers but it is a definite factor.
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@toxik_survivor said:
I believe we need more than the colors we have now. Red rank should actully be the best of the best, like grand champions on rocket league or diamonds in brawhalla. There are too many bad red rank players.
What I propose is add more colors in between ranks. Add emerald, diamond, and a black rank would be pretty good.
Ash then bronze then silver then gold then emerald then diamond then black then iridescent.
Thought?
No, we don't need more elitism but we do need more BP
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I think Killer can be fun if, and I do mean if:
(a) Your main is one of the handful of killers that can compete against skilled survivors
(b) You self regulate so that there are no 'scummy' tactics and your MMR keeps you at a level where you can have games with multiple hooks; and
(c) You don't really care if you win or lose but only if you had fun
If those three conditions don't apply then Killer gets more and more frustrating as time goes on. It's a conundrum since if you play to win you get to a point where it's not fun. If MMR were based on more than kills/escapes I think matches would be more fun for more people.
As a side note, I experience less toxicity now than I did a few months ago. I'm of the opinion that it's from MMR since I notice a lot more tunneling and camping than from before MMR. As such, when someone doesn't tunnel or camp I think people appreciate it more than before. There is still toxicity but I see it once every few days as opposed to a few times every day.
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@Akumakaji said:
Hello everyone.
I am not really complaining (in reality I am, though :P), but in my 680h of DBD it never felt THIS hard to pip with killers as of the moment. Tonight I had a lot of really cool games, yet I hardly pipped 5 times and depipped twice.
The good games were nearly all "Brutal Killer" ratings and in the gold ranks you need to have such a good game, in order to get your pips. I don't remember it being this hard last month or ever before. I always hit Iri 1, save my first month, but now I am doubtful if I will hit even Iri 4.
How many hooks (not hook states) are you averaging per game?
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Did I bring Decisive Strike?
Any gen near the basement is completely off limits
I hope someone else is found first
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826685#Comment_2826685
Huh? You couldn't hit rank 1 WITH tunneling? That was the easiest way...
One other note, thank you for changing back to Bubba. It was jarring to see you with a portrait that wasn't Bubba.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826685#Comment_2826685
Huh? You couldn't hit rank 1 WITH tunneling? That was the easiest way...
They did more, though, then just stand by a hook and let the survivors do gens completely uncontested even if the gen is only 10 metres away. That's what I mainly see now and whom I'm referring to.
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@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826436#Comment_2826436
What exactly can killers not deal with?
The issue is that most game flaws reside from killer gameplay. So you can say that the game is killersided, cause those flaws never got fixed in 5 years.
The problem is saying "Killers" as a homogeneous group. There are many things that the S tier killers can deal with that the lower tier killers can't.
In my opinion, the S and high A tier killers do have a balanced chance against survivors. Any killer lower on those tiers will hit an MMR soft cap and lose games simply because their powers are too weak to deal with survivors at a high MMR
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@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826656#Comment_2826656
If MMR were possible to base off of more than kills and escapes they would get better matches.
Your inference here is that these matches are bad, but you're literally looking at less than a handful of matches, rather that the trend over literally 10's of 1000's of matches happening every day which the devs do have access to. How are you able to determine the performance of a system from looking at individual cherry-picked examples, and ignoring the reports from the devs that escape/death rates are closer to 50% than they ever have been before?
If it's not possible then the dev team should consider how to balance camping, tunneling and gen speeds as an integrated whole to make it so facecamping and hard tunneling (defined as 3 of 4 hook states on one survivor) is neither needed at any MMR nor possible.
Here's the problem with freedom to play as you choose... you have to allow the "bad" as well as the "good". If a killer wants to face-camp and/or tunnel, how can you stop them? You can only - at best - make it more rewarding for them to chase other survivors, but given how many 2nd chance perks survivors have these days with boons on the top, I feel killers in general don't find the chase rewarding any more.
Playing killer is a stressful exercise, one mistake could cost the game, whereas survivor is literally chill - you don't even have to hold the button to do the gen any more - and yet there's more and more second chances because the game is based around survivors having equal counter-play to killers, despite there being 4 of them!
Until that happens, basing it off of a binary system just leads to frustration among killer players. That's why I consider it an MMR issue.
You've asserted a conclusion, but you made no coherent link to the problem being emergent of a "binary system".
At the end of the day, any MMR system that you're going to implement (not that you suggested one, but let's assume you did) is going to be binary in some sense... the survivor either moves up or down. You might scale the movement according to other metrics, but it's still moving one way or another, i.e. a binary system. Which is why your conclusion makes no sense.
I don't believe it's to do with MMR at all. If anything, as someone else commented, MMR is helping here by ensuring the players who play like that are matched with other players who can counter it.
You asked why people view it as an MMR problem and I answered. Before MMR, the face camping tunnelers were around rank 16 and now they're not. The survivors are not based around equal counterplay to the killer and you can believe that matching killers with survivors they can't catch is a good system all you want but I don't share that opinion. If a Killer is matched with a survivor that can run them for a long period of time then that's a match making issue that breeds frustration.
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@PlaysByShady said:
Why is this being made an MMR issue?
It seems to me like it's a boon/COH issue. Why should killers let a survivor get off the hook, only to be saved with BT, have DS, and then insta-heal with COH to start the cycle all over again.
Personally I think it's down to killers feeling that, given the handouts the survivors have, it's the only way they can play with any measure of success
It's partially that but it's a trap. Camping and tunneling works until it doesn't and then the killer is left frustrated and floundering.
As an example, I had four games this morning as solo queue and my results were:
#1: killer did NOT camp or tunnel, could have easily 4Ked us but I think he was farming so 3 of us escaped
#2: Killer did camp and tunnel, 4 hooks, 1 kill
#3: Killer camped and tunneled, 3 hooks, 1 kill
#4: Killer camped and tunneled, 4 hooks, 1 kill
Of Killers #2 to #4 what they had in common was that they couldn't chase very well probably because they got to their MMR by camping and tunneling.
Now they're looking at a series of terrible games where they're frustrated, lose a fair amount until they can 3K again and then get put back where they'll continue to lose until they learn map and situational awareness, when to drop chase, switch targets, etc.
If MMR were possible to base off of more than kills and escapes they would get better matches. If it's not possible then the dev team should consider how to balance camping, tunneling and gen speeds as an integrated whole to make it so facecamping and hard tunneling (defined as 3 of 4 hook states on one survivor) is neither needed at any MMR nor possible. Until that happens, basing it off of a binary system just leads to frustration among killer players. That's why I consider it an MMR issue.
Side note: Also, redesigning the maps, killer powers or whatever so that more killers than just Nurse, Blight and Artist were capable of creating pressure on large maps would also be helpful.
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Don't kill anyone until everyone has been hooked twice. Then, kill three and give the last hatch or gate. Players are happier if they have an opportunity to play the game and you just gave them one. Very few people and only the most entitled ones would complain about that.
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@prion11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2825765#Comment_2825765
That is an interesting conundrum in this game that mmr does not equal rank, I have noticed I get games where I win so hard that 2 or more survivors dc, and i get no rank progress because they didn't do gens
Yeah, there's a wiki page detailing exactly what you need to do (search DbD emblems) and if you, for example, 4K but with only 4 hooks and short chases you may depip even though all the survivors are dead. To pip up, 8 hooks with 0K is preferable to 4K with 4 hooks until Gold emblems I think it is. 4K with 4 hooks is inferior to nearly every other combination with 6 hooks or so.