PlaysByShady
PlaysByShady
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With the old pop, I still don't understand how BHVR thought 60s was way too much time for a lone killer to explore the map to see where to apply it, whilst juggling 4 survivors who'll lead them into dead zones and away from gens with progress.
They've literally made it where killers have to just get survivors go and parade around the map, and even then 45s isn't enough time to do that on a lot of maps because of the sheer size of them.
And, literally at the exact same time, DS was perfectly fine with a 60s countdown. The survivors could go away, heal up, do gens, etc, and still retain a 60s window to go down and strike the killer... seriously??
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336863#Comment_3336863
Yeah but if I'm bleeding out on the ground last survivor there is nothing I can do to progress the game. I can't open the door from the ground and killer has shut the trap door isn't that hostage then?
1: You are bleeding out, the game is progressing. In the very near future, you will bleed out and the game with end for you
2: You can run unbreakable et al to pick yourself up and get back into the game if you so choose
3: You can move away from where you were slugged and force the killer to waste time looking for you, whilst giving your team mates a fighting chance to either progress gens or pick you up
4: You can also guess where the hatch may spawn. Offerings will also help with this.
So to say that being slugged is anything like being held hostage is clearly not true. This is completely unlike being body blocked where there is no perk or option available to you to do anything that'll lead to any change in the game state.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336000#Comment_3336000
How is being bleed out for 4 minutes not considered hostage is beyond me.
You literally gave the answer... you'll die in 4 minutes. There's an end.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226606#Comment_3226606
You can adjust your monitor/tv settings you know? That's what I used to do for Docked mode on Switch
Err, no. I've my monitor nicely calibrated for everything I use my PC for (work, casual, gaming, social, etc).
DBD is literally the only app that requires color/clarity correction. I'm not messing with my monitor every time I want to play, and then have to switch it back.
I've no idea how the devs calibrated their displays but the comments saying that they're way too dark, there's too little contrast, etc, are far too wide and numerous to suggest this problem is with the community and not how DBD manage the colour palette.
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I think Corrupt Intervention should be basekit because survivors are able to literally start their objectives immediately upon loading into the map. Spawning right on top of a generator is pretty common.
Conversely, the killer has to traverse the map, and depending on the spawn locations, potentially do a full circuit of the map, before they even find a survivor and can begin their objective. I've lost count how many times I've had generators popped on me before I've even seen someone!
With corrupt as basekit (corrupting the generators closest to the survivors), it'll force the survivors to move away and raise the chance of running into the killer. Or at least they'll have to make some decision as to which gen to go for, instead of jumping on the one they spawn on top of because that's a no-brainer.
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@Lima24927 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3241341#Comment_3241341
Competitive gaming on Dbd is an entire different game, everything is different, first on some competitive games there are rules, and points, some rules includes limiting perks and items, its also played on selected maps, the nurse from Alf faced a harder challenge, 500 different teams, with no limitations, no item limits, no maps limits, its a big lie to think he faced "random noobs", if he kills most survivors, his MMR will be the highest, of course matchmaking is also bad and he definetly has easy games, buy he did face many, many SWFs, with all sorts of builds, and barely any gen regression perks, si basically his strategy is focused around downing survivors fast to snowball and build pressure, this alone isnt viable on some killers.
try to play killer on high MMR against a coordinated SWF and let me know how it goes, chances are you will easily lose 2 -3 gens on the first chase.
i NEVER claimed SWFs are balanced, since this thread isnt about it, neither it is about kill rates either, nurses can still lose (2k or less) for not taking care of gens, lose tri-gens, fail to down a survivor fast, or fail to apply pressure / tunnel and camp if needed. that is a player issue.
what i'm saying is that all other killers have a limiting factor attached to them, whereas the nurse have none, and this isnt right, that means if a player is really good at blight, he can still be stopped, but the nurse being played by someone of the same level, simply won't be stopped, unless the llayer makes multiple mistakes.
what i'm saying is that all other killers have a limiting factor attached to them, whereas the nurse have none, and this isnt right
non-sequitur
Nurse is limited by way of:
1) Literally being slower that survivors, the only killer with this attribute
2) Having limited blinks (in the sense that there are random objects around maps you cannot blink through and just have to learn, her power doesn't just work universally)
3) Has a limited number of blinks (Bubba gets unlimited sweeps, etc... Nurse can only blink 2/3 times)
4) Has to charge the blink and cannot undo this (unlike huntress who can replace her hatchets, or billy who can stop revving his saw, etc)
5) Suffers fatigue (loss of vision) at the end of the blink (no other killers are forced to lose sight of survivors)
6) Has to wait for blinks to recharge
7) Cannot short blink on upper floors; a common counter to her on maps like The Game is to just run at her when she's charging her blink so she is forced to overblink or go down
You characterised all of this as "none". Interesting.
"please do us a favor and be quiet, let the other peiple who at least [understand and acknowledge all the relevant factors] to opine, don't waste our time, thanks, good bye."
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@Lima24927 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3241406#Comment_3241406
"i didn't read trough 5 pages of discussion, yet i feel entitled to give my opinion on something i have no clue about ! ". 2022, Hurr durr.
please do us a favor and be quiet, let the other peiple who at least read the thread to opine, don't waste our time, thanks, good bye.
"i didn't read trough 5 pages of discussion, yet i feel entitled to give my opinion on something i have no clue about ! ". 2022, Hurr durr.
Maybe you should learn to read. I was responding to the OP point, and I don't need to read through 5 pages of comments to gain permission to make my own point or for my own point to have any validity. I only mentioned as an apology in case someone else has already made the same point.
please do us a favor and be quiet, let the other peiple who at least read the thread to opine, don't waste our time, thanks, good bye.
No, because that's just stupid. If there's a valid point to be made with regards to the OP, it's equally valid regardless of whether no-one has replied as yet (so the thread is only one post long) or 100's of people have replied (which would be several pages).
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3241335#Comment_3241335
That is not even close to what is being suggested.
Well then, good sir, why don't you clarify what's being suggested instead of making an empty retort that adds nothing to the discussion? Because it seems to me that the OP is clearly suggesting that Nurse (and not Alf) is OP by virtue of Alf's success with her, and thus inferring strongly that that should not be the case, which in turn requires a world-view where it makes sense for someone to have sunk 1000's of hours into playing a particular character, and not eventually be successful with said playstyle.
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@Lima24927 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3241110#Comment_3241110
thats absolutely false in so many ways, even when he is doing a win streak, he isn't playing as if he was playing on championship, he is all relaxed and reading twitch chat and interacting with his viewers, anyone who has ever watched any dbd competitive matches knows its totally different.
your second mistake is to believe he only faced newbies, we are talking about 500 matches, and i personally watched when he almost lost the streak a couple times.
500 games, with zero escapes after gens were done, is simply insane, and can only be done by something like a nurse or blight, because of their mobility.
another phallacy is that if you throw a professional player against new players, on a non-professional match, the professional player is always going to shine, thats a lie, on group sporte, the pro would suffer, he wouldnt get pro assistance from other players, and people wouldnt respect the rules as they arent pros and on amateur matches rules are disrespected all the time , this is true on most sports.
even when the killer plays solo on Dbd, those rules would be broken all the time, like survivors bringing purple items, brand new parts, and many other things that are forbidden on tournments.
Nurse fanboys will defend it to death, even when all evidence and all pro players and specialists says nurse js broken Op and needs a rebalance, no other killer in DBD is able to pull a 500 win streak with those conditions, but hey, lets pretend its just the player, and not the nurses broken ability to 1- down someone faster than any other killer, 2- hook and barbecue them, 3- either kill another surv who got exposed by starstruck, or teleport back to hook and kill the exposed surv by make your choice.
another phallacy is that if you throw a professional player against new players, on a non-professional match, the professional player is always going to shine, thats a lie, on group sporte, the pro would suffer, he wouldnt get pro assistance from other players, and people wouldnt respect the rules as they arent pros and on amateur matches rules are disrespected all the time , this is true on most sports.
And this applies to DBD where the killer is playing solo, how exactly???
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I've not read through the last 5 pages so apologies if this has already been mentioned, but let's try to understand what OP is saying by reversing the scenario.
What OP is suggesting, is that someone who's spent most of their 7,200 hours in-game on a specific single character should NOT be able to consistently do well with that character when faced with players who are not playing to the same level of dedication!
That's it, right?
They want an expert in something to not perform like an expert.
Get outta here!!
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I stopped reading at this point:
making her blink attacks M2 because its an M2 ability
Nurse, unlike literally every other killer, has no way to catch and hit survivors other than blinking to them (unless they're being really stupid and giving away free hits). She's the only killer that's literally slower than survivors.
If you're going to ignore the basic mechanics that justify her blink attacks counting as basic because she cannot reasonably be expected to get them otherwise, and mention this as your first point, then I've little reason to believe anything else you've got to say has any serious thought behind it towards balance.
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If I crushed you, and you didn't rage quit early, then gg wp for being a sport and sticking around until the end.
Politeness costs nothing.
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I don't go into a match caring about the survivor's fun. I play for my own amusement, their enjoyment is on them.
That said, if a survivor or two DC early 'cos they're cry-babies, and the remaining players appear to be genuinely trying to play for their objectives, then I'll go easy on them (i.e. slug one at a time) so we both practice chase whilst the other is pushing gens (and then I'll switch targets). And I'll let them escape.
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@SuzuKR said:
Moving all game logic to the server is not feasible. That is an insane amount of effort for the server to handle. That said, checks here and there are fully viable.
Err... no. It's trivial for the server to manage.
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It definitely exists on PC, I've lost many a hit where I've just hit random terrain that I wasn't even aiming for. It's completely ridiculous.
It was there only to make the hits look like they connected properly... but I'd rather have pokos looking hits than hits that are nullified because the game decided to arbitrarily play for me
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I predict they're gonna grovel and apologise to survivor mains for nerfing COH, and explain that they quickly nerfed Thana for killers for the same reason without leaving it for 6 months before deciding to do so...
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@Bearded_Owl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3087838#Comment_3087838
First of all, why do you have to make this a Survivor Main v.s. a Killer Main argument, the vast majority of players who play DBD (like myself) play both equally, I have 3.7k hours in the game and about half of that I have played killer, so I am saying, objectively, with the current meta after the recent update, she is over-tuned.
Also, either you have never gone against an insane Nurse, but considering you've made 500+ posts, I doubt that to be the case, but to simply say, just juke her blinks, get good, any Nurse with several hundred hours doesn't miss, so...yeh
Look, you're clearly a Nurse main the way your repeating the same points but not actually offering anything useful, you've made you mind up and that's fine, but I and I'm sure the vast majority of the community will agree she is over-tuned. I don't think she's broken, I don't even care if they do anything with her M1/M2 stuff, but, she at high level game play is far too strong and unless you are 4 man SWF team you won't be able to do against her, which ISN'T healthy for gameplay.
First of all, why do you have to make this a Survivor Main v.s. a Killer Main argument
If you understood my point, you'd realise it's not Survivor Main vs. Killer Main at all. This is not a matter of opinion. It's literally a matter of fact.
Can Blight chase down a survivor without using his power and get an M1 hit over the course of normal play? Yes!! Hence using his power counts as special.
Can Nurse chase down a survivor without using her power and get an M1 hit over the course of normal play? No. She's literally slower than survivors. Hence the only way she can close the gap is to blink, and as this is the only expected way for her to get hits, they're not special.
It's predominantly survivor-mains who fail to understand the very basic premise behind this understanding.
so I am saying, objectively, with the current meta after the recent update, she is over-tuned.
You need to look up what "objectively" means. Your position is entirely subjective, and not only that, the point to which I responded to is just plain wrong... objectively wrong. As per my very simple point above.
Also, either you have never gone against an insane Nurse
I've gone against many insane Nurses. I'm also a mod for SupaAlf on twitch. I'm pretty familiar with "insane" Nurse gameplay.
I doubt that to be the case
Nice to read your carefully curated and thought-out justification for this opinion. Shame it's completely baseless and wrong.
any Nurse with several hundred hours doesn't miss
Finally, something I'll (mostly) agree with. And in this case, a good Nurse who's put that many hours in deserves their wins. Skill should be rewarded.
I'm sure you're also aware of another streamer who's done 50 wins-in-a-row streaks with every killer with no add-ons... just because a player with a very high amount of experience and skill is capable of winning doesn't mean there's a problem with the killers as a whole. Because it's easily countered by survivors doing escape streaks too.
Look, you're clearly a Nurse main the way your repeating the same points but not actually offering anything useful
I've consistently offered reasoned based objectively validateable reason. It's a shame that's lost on you.
I'm sure the vast majority of the community will agree she is over-tuned
Logical fallacy. Just because the majority believe something doesn't make it necessarily true. We could look to recent political decisions for examples of that.
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@Teslaboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081717#Comment_3081717
YOU: (She's literally slower than survivors. She is the only killer that is literally slower than survivors. How do you expect her to get M1 hits when she's literally slower than survivors without her blinks??)
RSPONSE: She's not, that's the point. Her blinks synergizing with exposed or other on M1 hit abilities is really too much for a killer with the ability to ignore the walls and the entirety of the game's mechanics.
YOU: (Blight is a 115% killer. He can literally walk up to survivors and smack them upside the head like most of the other killers. That's why his special doesn't count for basic.)
RESPONSE: Right, but again, nurse can get her hit's so easily compared to the other killers, and therefore is rewarded more than the other killers as a result with perks that reward M1s.
YOU: (Honestly, if this is the shallow depth of understanding, it's no wonder there's so many complaints about Nurse. Survivor-mains simply refuse to step out of their bubble and look at any other factor other than "duuurrrr... my standard looping skills are no good any more")
RESPONSE: Did you even read his post? He clearly stated he was a killer main that plays solo que survivor on the side. Looping is a core mechanic of this game, anybody that's played this game for a while knows this. I believe the level of YOUR depth of the understanding of the game is what really needs to be questioned here. Every other killer for the most part plays by the core mechanics of DbD. Nurse COMPLETELY ignores them.and basically plays her own game. She should have a smaller pool of perks that synergize with her power because her power on it's own is more than capable of making up for it.
And before you even say it, I am also a killer main with almost 3k hours in the game, so please do not try the "survivor main" slander.
She's not, that's the point.
Err... she is! That's literally the point. She is literally slower than other killers. Yes, she has speed with her blinks, but if you don't let her attack when blinking, then she's literally slower and cannot be compared with 115% killers in this instance.
I don't understand why it's so hard to understand this simple point?
Her blinks synergizing with exposed or other on M1 hit abilities is really too much for a killer with the ability to ignore the walls and the entirety of the game's mechanics.
So learn to juke her blinks then? She gets a limited number, has to charge them up, aim correctly and avoid any obstacles (including landing on the right side of any walls, etc), and suffer fatigue... how much more do you want? Just get better at juking them.
Right, but again, nurse can get her hit's so easily compared to the other killers
Even if I were to believe you on this (which I don't, there's a reason her kill-rate is the lowest, because she's the hardest to use and actually get hits with), she only gets those hits ("so easily") with her blinks! Without blinks, she gets nothing!! So why should she be denied a whole roster of M1 related perks because of this, when clearly the counter is in the hands of the survivors?
Did you even read his post?
I did... and I addressed a specific comment he(?) made without creating other fallacious arguments or resorting to straw men. I could ask the same of you.
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@Bearded_Owl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081717#Comment_3081717
She also blinks and teleports through walls, how is that a counter-argument, that she's slow?
I assume you believe she's in a good spot, perfectly balanced and nothing should be done about her current power level?
Well, thanks for nit-picking a single point you didn't like, ignoring my overall concern with the killer and providing no positive feedback...don't comment if you're just going to be rude, maybe?
Also, not a survivor main, solo queue and killer main...read the whole thing
She also blinks and teleports through walls, how is that a counter-argument, that she's slow?
Yes... and if she hits you when doing that - also known as a blink attack - it counts as a standard attack because it's the only way she can really get hits. What you want is for her to be able to blink and teleport... but not be able to hit survivors?? So she has to target a blink, get it right, suffer through fatigue etc, and then what?? Somehow still catch up to the survivor (who's already run away at this point) to get her M1 attack?
Honestly... you guys need to upgrade your arguments here.
I assume you believe she's in a good spot, perfectly balanced and nothing should be done about her current power level?
I do, I think she's literally the manifestation of the definition of gameplay that survivor mains keep crying for, i.e. skill should be rewarded. She takes a lot of skill to master, and for those who've mastered her, deserve their rewards. Survivors should learn to juke her, instead of crying about the fact that they have to learn different strategies to verse her.
Well, thanks for nit-picking a single point you didn't like, ignoring my overall concern with the killer and providing no positive feedback
Well, I exposed the consistent flaw in this argument you and others keep crying for. Your overall concern with the killer is irrelevant when your only solution is literally for her to not work. That's not a solution.
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Oh gawd.... does every survivor main have to ask this question individually and expect a personalised answer?
Her hits should count as M2 attacks, not M1, I mean, if Blights rush attack counts as M2, why doesn't Nurses?
She's literally slower than survivors. She is the only killer that is literally slower than survivors. How do you expect her to get M1 hits when she's literally slower than survivors without her blinks??
Blight is a 115% killer. He can literally walk up to survivors and smack them upside the head like most of the other killers. That's why his special doesn't count for basic.
Honestly, if this is the shallow depth of understanding, it's no wonder there's so many complaints about Nurse. Survivor-mains simply refuse to step out of their bubble and look at any other factor other than "duuurrrr... my standard looping skills are no good any more"
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2998135#Comment_2998135
What if she puts you in a map corner
You say "she puts you in a map corner" like you had absolutely no control or agency over your own movement 🤔
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2946491#Comment_2946491
You are describing how Nurse has a higher skill floor than most killers. You are misusing the word ceiling in this context.
What's the difference?
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@Phasmamain said:
Does she really?
I have to start by saying I do agree that nurse has the highest skill floor. Her mechanics are way different than any other killer since her slow movement speed prevents her from going m1 mode. As for her skill ceiling there are some killers who definitely beat her imo
In my opinion there are killer I think have a higher skill ceiling. The main one I’ll mention here is Pinhead. His possessed chain has a similar summon to a nurse blink and also requires that you hit a precise projectile. All this and you aren’t even guaranteed the hit and have to use your basic M1 mechanics to secure it. This is already more of a skill ceiling than nurse and that’s not even taking into account box management. Skilled coenobites using Lethal pursuer can figure out where the box spawns correlating to survivors positions.
I’d also say blight is harder to master. Map knowledge is essential to good blights players not only to know how to play each loop (Nurse plays most loops very similarly) but with simple things like using a tree or rock to help in a loop. This isn’t even taking into account the techs you can do with him intended or not.
You could say that “these can just be played as m1 killers unlike nurse” but the point of a skill ceiling is mastery of the power itself. Nurse’s power in practise is a lot simpler than these 2 and isn’t affected by maps as much. I just don’t see a case for her being the most skillful killer in dbd when killers like Pinhead and blight exist.
In my opinion there are killer I think have a higher skill ceiling. The main one I’ll mention here is Pinhead. His possessed chain has a similar summon to a nurse blink and also requires that you hit a precise projectile. All this and you aren’t even guaranteed the hit and have to use your basic M1 mechanics to secure it. This is already more of a skill ceiling than nurse and that’s not even taking into account box management. Skilled coenobites using Lethal pursuer can figure out where the box spawns correlating to survivors positions.
Oh dear, here we go. You're missing a number of crucial points.
1) Pinhead is a 115% killer. Even if you never use his power, you can literally still chase survivors down as per normal. Nurse is completely dependent on her blinks... and specifically getting accurate blinks to hit the target. Therefore, Nurse requires more mastery as she has more obstacles.
2) Pinhead's possessed chain, whilst fair enough requires you to aim and hit a target, cannot be equated to Nurse's blinks. He can literally see exactly where the chain will open, and there's a long window where he can look around and aim with it. In contrast, Nurse (by default) cannot see where her blink will land and has to commit to it anyway, with a very short window to do anything about it. And after the blink there is a punishing cooldown where she cannot see the survivors, nor can she use her power again, nor move. Therefore, Nurse has more obstacles to overcome and has a higher ceiling.
If you want to equate the chain to something, it's closer to Huntress hatchets and Deathslingers rifle where you can just aim and shoot, and carry on chasing... except they're 110% killers so Cenobite still has a movement advantage on top of them.
3) Cenobite literally gets free slowdown during the course of the match. At least one survivor has to get off gens to find and solve the cube. When this happens, Cenobite can instantly transport to where they are (no mis-transportations, etc). If he's successful at capturing the box, or the survivors don't get the cube, the survivors literally get harassed by chains where it's very difficult (impossible, contextually) for them to complete objectives. Nurse gets none of this. Whilst she's in chase with a survivor, the other survivors are free to complete objectives without hindrance.
4) Nurse's ability comes with a lot of restrictions... one of which is the inconsistent blinking out of basement. I can't tell you how many times this week alone I've just had my blinks swallowed and been trapped down there... forced to suffer fatigue, wait for the recharge and just float up the stairs, losing a lot of valuable time in the process. Cenobite doesn't need to go through any of this.
Exactly how balanced and fair were you being when you came up with this position of yours?? Seems to me your analysis was exceptionally shallow.
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Cakes will grant a 160% bonus instead of 106%, because BHVR haven't worked out that to increase a value by 4% you multiple by 1.04, not 1.4 (4th year anniversary cakes used to give a 140% bonus... glorious times!)
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@t0007319 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/322181/for-those-calling-for-legion-nerfs
If they buffer survivors and then told the killer to stop making mistakes I don’t think it’d sit well, everyone has a good reason to complain and most likely if a lot of people are complaining then there must be an issue.
Ive seen countless survivors dc as soon as they see legion and complain, it gets old very fast but it’s probably due to bad killer rotation as well, constantly facing the same killer gets boring and I imagine most killers want to play as him.
I feel like some of the complaints are valid but it’s hard to tell this early on due to how many people are playing as him, it might just be exaggerated
If they buffer survivors and then told the killer to stop making mistakes I don’t think it’d sit well
You can't compare an entire group (i.e. survivors) with a single killer. Survivor's have been buffed a number of times, with a multitude of 2nd chance perks, can't grab while they're healthy, etc, etc. By rights, every killer needs a buff accordingly to match up!
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For giggles, I tried a game with Sloppy, Bloodhound and Nurses (and BBQ... 'cos points!)
It worked well enough, tracking the survivors was fairly easy, and I was usually close enough to see where they were trying to heal with Nurses. The downside is that it encouraged tunnelling, because you have to follow the blood. If you let them get away and heal up, then your build is useless.
So I usually had two injured at any one time... the person off the hook, and whoever rescued. I'd chase and hook the rescuer, at which point the person who was unhooked usually hadn't finished healing so I was able to re-chase them.
Repeat until all survivors are dead (or in my case, one stayed out, healed up, found a key and got the hatch)
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@Sumnox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2933945#Comment_2933945
Alright, first of all thank you for the video, you're one of the few people who doesn't seem to talk out of their backside, or isn't afraid to provide proof. About the video itself, you're playing in a map that is good for Nurse, there's many low walls and the visibility is pretty good for her. And the first person to go down takes about 3 minutes I think. Also, you avoided her by basically backing once (she awkwardly missed a very obvious hit the first time), using Lithe, and after that she pretty much gave up/lost you. You joked that I would say "she's just bad", but objectively speaking, she does seem to be pretty inexperienced, based on what we can see here. When I continue watching the video, when the person is hooked by the bus and you're getting chased around her, she basically refuses to blink and... breaks the pallet, then keeps floating around. That is, objectively speaking, a bad Nurse. Not because I say so, but because you can clearly see it in the video.
After that she blinks twice on you, and is within hit proximity... and she doesn't even attempt to swing. Then twice in the open next to shack, she swings awkwardly and misses twice for no reason. Once you get hooked in the basement etc, it's just a circus. You can she how bad she is in every chase, but the funny thing is... she still 4Ks... lol
To be fair, if this is the kind of Nurse you play against usually, I can understand why you'd claim she's perfectly counterable. I agree, that Nurse is very counterable (though as I said she still 4ks). I'm curious to see how -you- play as a Nurse yourself, but this video still proves my point. Even the most incompetent Nurse will 4k against randoms.
I will look for matches I played "recently" as survivor and see if I can upload any as well. Worst case I'll see if I can be arsed to try to play some survivor and see if I get a Nurse (probably lol)
Alright, first of all thank you for the video, you're one of the few people who doesn't seem to talk out of their backside, or isn't afraid to provide proof.
Thank you :)
Also, you avoided her by basically backing once (she awkwardly missed a very obvious hit the first time), using Lithe, and after that she pretty much gave up/lost you.
I think that's a little over-simplified. One of my suggestions was to be unpredictable, and to use the terrain against her, and (for the most part) I tried to do that. You'll note in multiple instances I changed my direction to put a wall between us, not just to break LOS, but to act as a barrier for her blinks. I'm trying to force her to either short-blink, or over-blink, by positioning myself awkwardly. And also whilst I do continue moving (which is what ultimately gets me each time), I try not to move predictably.
but objectively speaking, she does seem to be pretty inexperienced, based on what we can see here.
That's a subjective statement ;) It'll be objective when you can provide irrefutable proof/reasons for your position that no-one can refute. As of right now, you can't tell her level of experience, only that she wasn't playing as optimally as Nurse players can be (which I would agree with).
she basically refuses to blink and... breaks the pallet, then keeps floating around. That is, objectively speaking, a bad Nurse. Not because I say so, but because you can clearly see it in the video.
Nah, that's still subjective. It boils down to an opinion. And it may be this Nurse found it counter-productive to blink being as I was juking her blinks, and I was dumb enough to essentially run into her so just floating worked. Also, she may have been saving her blinks for the opportune moment, waiting for them to recharge, etc.
You don't have enough knowledge/evidence to make that an objective statement.
After that she blinks twice on you, and is within hit proximity... and she doesn't even attempt to swing.
Conditioning... she missed on the previous occasions, and maybe she's just feeling me out.
To be fair, if this is the kind of Nurse you play against usually, I can understand why you'd claim she's perfectly counterable.
It's not. Usually I die, very quickly... but we don't save those matches for YouTube, right?
I say what I say, because I main Nurse, and I've had a lot of jukes done to me. Some games I can get a 4K at 5-gens, and in other games I barely get a hook. I'm the same player, with the same character, perks, add-ons, and occasionally even the same map. The only difference is the calibre of survivor (and RNG to a degree).
I know Nurse's weaknesses, because I have to play around them all the time. I cannot tell you how many times I've had my blinks swallowed for various reasons, or landed in the wrong place, or didn't make it past a wall when I needed to land a critical hit, etc. And because I know those weaknesses, I have them in mind when playing against her.
I'm curious to see how -you- play as a Nurse yourself
I've got a whole playlist... knock yourself out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYXlqqB57c&list=PLtlQInnibQoL3XGiDLcLgsLpb9F6EopEQ
but this video still proves my point. Even the most incompetent Nurse will 4k against randoms.
Err... no!
She didn't get a 4K because of her skill, etc. She literally got the 4K 'cos the other guy was busy urbanning around the map, checking chests, etc, instead of doing the gen (which was mostly done) whilst I had the Nurse's attention exclusively on me.
Had they done the gen, they could have opened the doors and it's very possible that match could have ended in a 2k/2e.
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And appears to be fixed in 5.7.0 :D
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@randonly said:
Not wanting to intrude, but once I watched the video, I just don't understand what this has to do with the glitched ranged addons.
Cool that you showed in practice how the loop works against Nurse a long time ago, but how does this legitimize being more than 2 months with the ranged addons giving more blink speed for nurse than normal? At least that's the purpose of the topic @MikaelaWantsYourBoon .
better not get off topic
Not wanting to intrude, but once I watched the video, I just don't understand what this has to do with the glitched ranged addons.
No wonder you're confused if you can't read the message I quoted it as a response to (which stemmed from asking how to counter-play a Nurse)
Cool that you showed in practice how the loop works against Nurse a long time ago, but how does this legitimize being more than 2 months with the ranged addons giving more blink speed for nurse than normal?
A lot of the jukes, etc, still work regardless. The addons only make her travel faster. It doesn't give her more accuracy, nor eliminate fatigue, nor reduce the recharge, etc, etc, etc. Your problem is tunnel vision, you've decided what you want to see, and despite any evidence to the contrary, you'll maintain that course.
better not get off topic
I'm on topic. You might want to learn to read properly before presuming I just arbitrarily posted the video out of nowhere without context.
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@Sumnox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2933750#Comment_2933750
Theory is great. Do you perhaps have video examples that showcase your mastery?
Firstly, just because I understand the theory of how it works - because it's done against me all the time (I main Nurse as killer) and I've understood the same from multiple other Nurse players (I'm a mod on Twitch for a fairly popular Nurse main and watched a lot of hours) - doesn't mean that I can execute the same. I know how boxing works... that doesn't make me Mike Tyson, nor am I about to go into the ring with him. For you to presume as much only demonstrates the limitations of your ability to understand any essence of nuance.
But since you asked, here you go... me vs a (then) Rank 1 Nurse from a while back (I don't stream so often these days, less so as survivor, and unfortunately don't go against many Nurses, so this is a little rare)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D_RQ2ju0XUAlso, please do note I'm playing on controller, and don't consider myself by any stretch to be a "good" survivor. In fact, against most killers I fall straight away. I like going against Nurse most because I find her easiest to juke, her mistakes are far far more punishing than that of other killers that literally just chase and catch up with speed.
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@torrigarnet said:
With the exception of the nurse there is no need for killers to be as fast as they are. EVERY survivor is 4.0 m/s, but you have like three different base speeds for killers? Then they get Bloodlust on top of that? How does that make that fair? Explain to me how a killer can have a 4.4 or 4.6 m/s speed, but survivors just get 4.0? Oh, add .2 m/s for every level of Bloodlust. That makes no sense. Make all killers base speed 4.2 with the adjusted .2 for every level of Bloodlust. That's a max of 4.6 m/s. Whoever said this game is survivor sided is out of their mind. Especially with the buffs to Ghost Face & Legion increasing their speed. So you have them at 4.6 m/s base then add on their special ability speed boosts ON TOP of Bloodlust? Explain to me how survivors can escape that?
Not all survivors are looping gods. Newer players are having issues just trying to get away and they don't understand the looping/running mechanics like seasoned players. Let's not forget the lag and ping issues when connecting to players on other platforms that cause issues in chases. Make all killer's base speed 4.2 m/s with their adjustments for Bloodlust as well as other perks or special abilities they have.
EVERY survivor is 4.0 m/s, but you have like three different base speeds for killers? Then they get Bloodlust on top of that? How does that make that fair? Explain to me how a killer can have a 4.4 or 4.6 m/s speed, but survivors just get 4.0?
I take it you missed that day at school where they explained 4 is greater than 1? In that, there are 4 survivors, and only 1 killer... the survivors have advantage of numbers, the killer needs an advantage too otherwise where's the balance?
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@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2932343#Comment_2932343
Any mediocre player can pick up nurse, equip those add-ons, and expect an easy 4k??
I mean yes... absolutely. thats what the addons are for - to let mediocre players feel like a god heh
Then, care to explain why she's at the bottom of the table with regards to kill-rate if it's that easy?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2932343#Comment_2932343
Light me what is her counterplays? Please teach me her all counterplays Mr. Just Get Better
You can check through my post history, I've mentioned quite a few. Mainly break LOS, be unpredictable, don't do actions that lock you into animation (i.e. drops, or close vaults), exploit the fact that she can't cancel a blink, use terrain/obstacles to your advantage (i.e. force her to make a perfect blink to get you), etc
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2931493#Comment_2931493
How about you learn how to discuss and then start write on forums?
Because it's impossible to discuss with someone who posts nonsense like this:
Only way counter Nurse is this but those add-ons removing her all counterplay.
Really? All her counterplay? All!! As in, there is literally nothing you can do? Nothing at all? Any mediocre player can pick up nurse, equip those add-ons, and expect an easy 4k??
Yeah... I didn't think so.
When you learn to discuss without resorting to unfounded hyperbole, then we can have a discussion. Until then, just get better.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2931493#Comment_2931493
Yeah, I'm just gonna get good against a character who defies the game's fundamentals.
She doesn't defy the fundamentals.
She still has to travel. Her power comes with a weakness/downside. She still has to protect gens, avoid obstacles, etc.
Why are you making it as though she completely ignores everything when that's clearly not the case
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@Travis_Bateman said:
You mean ADHD ? funny,i also have it
No, ADDH, which is like ADHD but in the correct alphabetical order
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Break LoS and make her guess, so she can not take hit with second blink.
Make mind-games for confuse her.
Only way counter Nurse is this but those add-ons removing her all counterplay. Because even second blink gives her enough distance to catch you if they have range add-ons. Those add-ons needs to go. Her base-kit already strong, she does not need any strong add-on. All her add-ons should be between mid - low
How about you just get good instead?
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@_AdamFrancis_ said:
Nobody is crying. It is just stupid to get punished for your teammates mistakes.
It's a team game!
If your team-mates don't do gens, or don't get saves, or don't distract the killer, you're gonna get punished eventually.
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@FeelsBadMan said:
Good job BHVR on literally killing one of the WORST killers ingame.
I knew it would be bad but I still gave him a try today. I can't mark ANYONE cause 9 out of 10 survivors run Spine Chill and start running the second the cat lights up. They literally expose me working on gens from sides where I can't even SEE the survivors. I can't mark people anymore mid-chase cause they can expose you while the survivors are behind stuff (rocks, walls etc.) and are literally LOS.
What the ######### where you guys THINKING when you made those changes?
I can't mark ANYONE cause 9 out of 10 survivors run Spine Chill and start running the second the cat lights up.
The developer change forces survivors to run Spine Chill???
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
BHvR is a small indie company. They are trying their bestest.
With like 850+ employees??
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I don't understand why the sexuality of any character is a thing... it's not like it influences any in-game mechanics, and it's not something you can see. I get "representation", I'm part of a community that is not visually represented (i.e. there's no character that looks similar to myself), and I wish BHVR would do better with that. But in terms of inner-traits, why do we care and where do we stop? Should we address religion, political position, etc, as well?
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@MrPuppier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925718#Comment_2925718
The problem is that the other killers are very weak, but the Nurse is stronger than these killers. Other killers can win when they play well against a avarage SWF team, but nurse wins even if she plays avarage. Do you understand me? More precisely, "DO YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND"?
Prove it with the numbers then. Nurse has the lowest kill rate of all the killers. Where's your evidence for your claim?
Your problem is, presumably you're only going against Nurse's that have put in the hours to compete with survivors at your level. You're not seeing all the Nurses that are crashing and burning at the lower levels where other killers can get success much more easily.
You're literally only going against the battle-hardened Nurses, and presuming that they're the average... when in fact the average Nurse is being matched with opponents far lower than you because she's so difficult to play.
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@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2928049#Comment_2928049
Oh c'mon, man, is this where we're getting at?
My original statement abridged:
- Nurse is balanced very delicately (any small change would be drastic as she is now)
- She is very punishing to play for the vast majority of players due to their skill level
- The difference between skilled and unskilled nurse players is the most jarring in the game
- Her kit completely circumvents conventional gameplay
- She completely ignores many perks due to her exemption from contemporary play
- She can be very discouraging to play before reaching a certain skill level
- Playing as or against Nurse includes mind games but also has a lot of bling gambles and guessing games
- Her primary balancing element is that her power demands perfect skill
- She is fine where she is - she'd need a rework if we wanted to make her less risk/reward oriented
I don't see where the straw-man is here, aside from the fact we just had this incredibly long and opinionated debate on if there is ever any 'guessing game' or random chance incorporated while playing against her, or if it's 100% psychological jousting at all levels.
This entire time the philosophical spearhead of our discussion was 'Aren't all guessing games and 'blind gambles' just mind-games as well' meaning it has all shifted from the original intent of the threat into a subjective argument as to the definition of what a "Mind Game" is.
Which more or less has devolved into such a guttural discussion of even if minute considerations can be considered 'trickery' by the simple reactionary nature of the game. Even in light of the fact that I never said that ALL plays against the nurse were gambles and that none were skillful.
Which is a very bitter takeaway from the body of such a statement.
We can argue all day and night as to what a "Mind Game" is with points on both sides. But regardless - the statement of the Nurse still stands.
She's fine as is. She needs no changes.
Oh c'mon, man, is this where we're getting at?
No, it's where you're stuck at.
I don't see where the straw-man is here
Then let me break it down, and be done with it.
You said...
A mind game is ... forcing a killer or survivor into making a play against their best interest.
To which I said
No, you're completely wrong here. A mind-game is where you force the opponent to have to choose correctly for success. It's not forcing a player to play against their interest.
I further expanded on this saying
when Nurse is holding her blink, she is definitely going to blink. She cannot cancel it, and the longer she holds it, the more problematic it can get. There is 100% a mind-game here because you can use your knowledge of Nurse's mechanics - that is assuming you have any - to force her into mistake.
You didn't like this, and claimed..
I have very clearly and deliberately outlined the differences between guessing and mind-games from an objective point of view.
Except, you didn't.
And, here come's the straw-man!
But if anything that involves guesswork, anticipation, or uncertain prediction in this game is considered a 'mind-game', then literally every faculty within Dead By Daylight is.
That's NOT what I said. I very clearly stated on each occasion that mind-games are where you're able to force your opponent to have to choose for success... will you vault, won't you vault, etc. The straw-man is you reducing this down to any choice, which isn't a mind-game. It's not a mind-game which gen you'll do first, etc.
I further emphasised my point in stating:
Fact is, you're saying that the Nurse having to guess which way a survivor is going to go, and having to make predictions, etc, is not a mind-game... when it literally involves having to make guesses based on cues the survivor is giving and completely in control of! Seems to me the very definition of a mind-game.
If the survivor is giving cues to the Nurse that she has to read and react upon, then that's mind-gaming because it's completely in the survivor's hand to give false cues, etc.
But again, you went and made a straw-man by repeating...
if anything that involves guesswork, anticipation, or uncertain prediction in this game is considered a 'mind-game', then literally every faculty within Dead By Daylight is.
And supplementing it with
My friends, you're saying that the minute decision to walk in any particular direction at any time for any reason is a 'mind game' if it is at all influenced by knowledge of the opponent's actions;
No, that's not what we said. That's a straw man you keep constructing, presumably because it's the only way you can satisfy your cognitive dissonance.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925978#Comment_2925978
She can’t chase via pure move speed (without meme-tier add-ons)
She has teleport, which is much faster than any killers walking speeds, of course she doesn't walk. This is like saying the Nurse can't use her bike all-the-while she's driving everywhere in her Lamborghini. Well let me tell you, every other killer is riding a bike while the Nurse is keeping hers in the trunk of her Lamborghini.
she can’t utilize Bloodlust
Again, she teleports. Would you really walk when you can teleport right on top of people.
window blockers are basically irrelevant to her
So the Nurse ignoring windows that every other killer has to deal with, is a downside...
she can’t use a normal lunge either (her lunge post-blink is 5.667m compared to the standard 6m, her regular post-blink is 3.333m compared to the standard 3m, to punish inaccurate blinks and better reward accurate ones).
Every other killers teleport-lunge is much worse than Nurse's teleport lunge. When I was teleport-lunging with Trapper, it just didn't seem to work.
---
I'm going to list the downsides to each killer.
- Nurse: Some Mindgames
- Trapper: Mindgames, Windows, Pallets, Loops, Walls
- Wraith: Mindgames, Windows, Pallets, Loops, Walls
- Billy: Mindgames, Windows, Pallets, Loops, Walls
- Michael Myers: Mindgames, Windows, Pallets, Loops, Walls
- Hag: Mindgames, Windows, Pallets, Loops, Walls
- Doctor: Mindgames, Windows, Pallets, Loops, Walls
- Huntress: Mindgames, Windows, Pallets, Loops, Walls
Do you notice a pattern here. 1 killer in the entire DBD roster gets to ignore everything except for mindgames. And by the way, the Nurse can actually ignore a lot of mind games that every other killer doesn't get to ignore. Specifically, the Nurse ignores every mindgame that doesn't break line of sight.
So if a survivor is on the other side of a short wall, all the other killers have to try and force the survivor toward the shortest side of the loop. Nurse just teleports across and completely ignores the short wall.
Nurse is not and will never be balanced while she can teleport through objects.
She has teleport, which is much faster than any killers walking speeds, of course she doesn't walk.
It's only faster in a straight line. When you need to go around objects, etc, it's much slower. To be good at Nurse, you have to try to get it right more often than not, because getting it wrong is very punishing.
Again, she teleports.
Only in straight lines, and with a cooldown, etc. It's not a straight comparison as you're making out.
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@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927657#Comment_2927657
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927050#Comment_2927050
You have both proved the point in spades with these statements:
if anything that involves guesswork, anticipation, or uncertain prediction in this game is considered a 'mind-game', then literally every faculty within Dead By Daylight is.
My friends, you're saying that the minute decision to walk in any particular direction at any time for any reason is a 'mind game' if it is at all influenced by knowledge of the opponent's actions; which, at its core, is every fiber in the tapestry of this game's design. If your definition of mind game is any action made based on your opponent's action, this is the truth.
You might want to look up what a straw man is
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@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926722#Comment_2926722
This is all 'agree to disagree' territory.
I have very clearly and deliberately outlined the differences between guessing and mind-games from an objective point of view. You offer your own.
The definition, at this point is purely subjective.
But if anything that involves guesswork, anticipation, or uncertain prediction in this game is considered a 'mind-game', then literally every faculty within Dead By Daylight is.
Literally everything is "agree to disagree" territory when you're discussing with someone who refuses to accept simple facts.
Is the sun a big ball of burning gas? I dunno, it could be made of cheese. Let's agree to disagree?
Fact is, you're saying that the Nurse having to guess which way a survivor is going to go, and having to make predictions, etc, is not a mind-game... when it literally involves having to make guesses based on cues the survivor is giving and completely in control of! Seems to me the very definition of a mind-game.
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@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926476#Comment_2926476
Uhh... did you read what I said? Because you're acting like I said that Nurse was anything like those killers, and you'd be right to criticize me if I did.
I didn't say that she was at all like any of those.
I was saying that sidestepping a projectile/spinning to avoid a lash or dash is not a 'mind game'. Plain and simple.
You don't 'mind game' a Huntress Hatchet by stepping to the side.
And in that split second before, when it's a joust of predictions - the level of play makes it a total gamble - Like the Sherlock Holmes poison pill. You can hedge your bets, but it's still a bet. That's my point. Not that they were like Nurse or that survivors should play the same against the Nurse, just as an illustrative example of the difference between 'outsmarting' an enemy with a mind game and using chance to dodge a projectile.
Also, uhh... You do know that as a nurse - you can look down to ostensibly cancel your blink, right? If survivors double back, you can fatigue yourself to keep yourself in position or stunt your distance appropriately. It helps when cheeky survivors double back or when you change your mind about things.
You're talking as if Ii haven't played as her before or something - as if we both haven't played the game for thousands of hours.
All in all, no complaints about what you said - I just feel like you got the exact wrong idea of what I was saying. I hope this helped clear that up.
We're going to have to disagree on what constitutes a mind-game, though.
Forcing a player to choose correctly to win is called booting up the game. You are not mind-gaming by running around a window or standing at a pallet while they do a little dance trying to predict where you're going.
The game is all about making tiny choices, you already have to make the right choices or you lose.
Showing your red-stain to trick a survivor into a dedicated vault that you punish at an LT isn't 'Forcing them to make the right choice', you have provided false stimuli to provoke them into dedicating to what they believed to be the right choice. By feeding an opponent misinformation in the joust, you entice them to play into your hand. That is the nature of a mind-game. Crouch behind a generator to make it look like you lost a DS, you have starved the killer of the basic information to "make the right choice" because you have fed them misinformation. If you feed someone a lie to trick them, this is quantifiably against the definition of "Forcing them to make the right choice" because you have removed the very nature of a choice through misinformation. If you hide your red-stain as Ghost Face and moon-walk crouch by a window when a survivor isn't looking, they believe you're on the other side of the wall, looking the wrong way - expecting the wrong things - completely ignorant of the danger you have placed them in as they round the corner.
There is no 'right choice' to be made here, you have removed their ability to make the right choice by making them believe the lie that you were somewhere that they were not. Even if they were to deduce that you were making a play, but had no idea where you were, how are they supposed to know what the 'correct' option is? You are incapable of forcing a survivor to make a 'correct choice' if you are confusing them and corralling them towards a mistake.
Not all 'you messed up' situations are mind games - but all mind-games are designed to cause your opponent to mess up. However, this is done by forcing a commitment through false information, or a lack of usual information. There is no 'mind game' where you are positioned where your opponent thinks you are, but likewise, there is no mind game unless you are attempting to trick your opponent into doing something specific.
If you hide in a locker, you may have avoided the killer by not being where they think you'd be, but it isn't a mind game.
And once you're in direct contact with the Killer, all mind-games are out the window, there's no misinformation to give, positions to subvert, or expectations to play off of. The killer will try to hit you and you will try to force a miss or tank the hit.
Just because your opponent does something silly or disadvantageous does not mean you outwitted them with a mind-game.
Just because your opponent played into your hands does not mean you outwitted them with a mind-game.
Just because you played into the hands of your opponent does not mean they outwitted you with a mind-game.
Just because yo did something silly or disadvantageous does not mean your opponent outwitted you with a min-game.
However, if you or your opponent - in a duel - feed one another false information to illicit a favorable outcome, you are mind-gaming.
Uhh... did you read what I said?
Yes I did. Your opening statement - in reference to my pointing out that Nurse having to guess where to blink is a mind-game - was "If what you constitute as a mind game IS a mind game - then back-revving with Hillbilly and Tentacle whips in the open are pinnacle of mind games."
Because you're acting like I said that Nurse was anything like those killers, and you'd be right to criticize me if I did.
We were discussing mind-games, and what constitutes mind-games. And I was very clear that for the Nurse to guess where to blink is a mind-game. You somehow then made a leap to assert that Billy's back-revving, etc, the pinnacle of mind-games!
Now, whilst I will agree that back-revving, etc, is a mind-game (will he charge, won't he charge, who knows?), it's hardly the pinnacle of mind-games, and I believe you were trying to be sarcastic in making this point, thusly attempting to negate the actual weight of Nurse's blinks.
The crucial difference here is that with Billy's back-revving, or Huntress's hatchet, etc, the survivor has zero control over whether the killer will perform that action or not. All they can do is plan for an either/or scenario.
However, when Nurse is holding her blink, she is definitely going to blink. She cannot cancel it, and the longer she holds it, the more problematic it can get. There is 100% a mind-game here because you can use your knowledge of Nurse's mechanics - that is assuming you have any - to force her into mistake.
It's a mind-game, and it's a completely fair mind-game because it's one the survivor has good chance of manipulating.
I was saying that sidestepping a projectile/spinning to avoid a lash or dash is not a 'mind game'. Plain and simple.
I know what you're saying. You're failing to realise that by side-stepping any projectile etc, you're losing distance. It is a mind-game on the side of the killer, and not a particularly fair one IMHO because the survivor has little influence. Unlike Nurse's blinks which I believe are much fairer.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923598#Comment_2923598
All killers require you to break LoS as much as possible. Also, with all killers except Nurse, you can loop, throw pallets and use windows.
The Nurse is broken because she ignores every defense that survivors have and use against every other killer in the game, except for breaking line-of-sight. If the Nurse had other weaknesses survivors could exploit that other killers did not have, then it would be fine, but she doesn't.
Consider this, what if The Trapper could walk through every wall, window and pallet in the game. How would that be fair. It's not fair for other killers and it's not fair for survivors.
Sure Nurse is hard to learn, but once you learn her, your basically god-mode.
The Nurse is broken because she ignores every defense that survivors have and use against every other killer in the game
I only have several hundred hours playing Nurse so please do correct me if I'm wrong here.
Are you saying Nurse's cannot get stunned by pallets?
Are you saying Nurse's do not get stopped by walls, etc?
Because I gotta tell you, I've been stunned by pallets several times. And walls also present problems... yes, Nurse can blink through walls, but only if the intended landing spot is free. Otherwise you may end up on the wrong side of the wall, or in the wrong place entirely.
So when you say she ignores them, do you perhaps mean that she doesn't behave like other killers in general with regards to them, or are you saying that there's literally no use to walls and pallets... 'cos I gotta tell you, if that's the case, her kill rate would be way higher than it is right now!
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@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925724#Comment_2925724
If what you constitute as a mind game IS a mind game - then back-revving with Hillbilly and Tentacle whips in the open are pinnacle of mind games.
Nemesis pulls out tentacle.
Do you dive left or right?
Nemesis is going to slap you if you go straight, but he will also understand that you know this and avoid.
Left or right?
50/50
Is this a mind game to you?
If Huntress got a rework - Hatchets go through all terrain, but she is slowed to 25% for 5 seconds after each throw during a reset. Infinite Hatchets.
You go behind a wall.
You can either continue going straight or stand still.
Huntress will have to make an educated guess on if you double back or not.
A mind game is not an educated guess. It is forcing a killer or survivor into making a play against their best interest.
Showing/hiding red stain to make a survivor think you're somewhere that you're not - that's not a guess, that's tricking them.
Showing a killer scratch marks and then walking the other way to trick them into vaulting a window, that's not a guess, that's tricking them.
Looking down at a pallet to make it seem that you will break it to force a survivor into the open, that's not a guess, that's tricking them.
Running for a fast vault to illustrate to the killer they can get a hit, only to pull away - that is not a guess, that is tricking them.
Pulling out your hatchet before approaching a pallet to make survivors think that you are going to hold it isn't a guess on if they will throw the pallet or not - it's tricking them into conserving it.
Mindgames are not GUESSING games, they are tricking your opponent into doing something against their best interest.
Running left or right for a nemesis whip isn't a mind game. It's a last-ditch gamble.
Throwing a pallet in hopes that the Huntress was about to sheathe isn't a mind-game, it's a gamble.
Jumping out of a locker because you're making an educated guess that the Bubba is lowering his rev isn't a mind-game, it's a gamble.
In back-rev situations with Demogorgon shreds, Victor jumps, Pig dashes, Executioner Judgement Of The Damned - you aren't "Mind Gaming" them, you're trying to juke a gamble. You're playing rock paper scissors - blind chance.
Blind chance ro-sham-bo games aren't mind games.
Moonwalking, stain flashes, power tricks, window fakes, DS repair baits, LT pauses, Corner peeks, DH holes, Feign Ignorance, Camera flicks, False approaches - these are MIND GAMES that are intended to trick your opponent into throwing themselves out of position or losing you in chase.
Spinning in little circles hoping that the killer loses you is not a mind game.
Going left and hoping the killer goes right is not a mind game.
If you think that a nurse missing a completely blind blink is 'outplaying' the nurse, then you really need to take a hard look at what you consider an outplay. Because, in that case, a blind hatchet narrowly missing you can be considered an 'outplay' - an Executioner's alt attack coming up 1 inch short of hitting you can be considered an 'outplay', or a clown missing a window with their bottle can be considered an 'outplay'.
Winning rock paper scissors and jousting with blind chance is not skill.
If your greatest way to beat an opponent is to lock them into blind chance, I think that speaks to the balance of the interaction in and of itself.
Oh please, you cannot compare Nurse's blinks to Hillbilly back-revving, or Nemesis tentacle strike, or Huntress hatchets, or Demo's shred etc.... for one very simple reason that clearly demonstrates you know nothing about Nurse!!!!
Hillbilly and Bubba can cancel their chain-saws
Nemesis can cancel his tentacle strike
Huntress can cancel her hatchet
Demo can cancel his shred
And all do so without any penalties.
Nurse CANNOT cancel a blink once she starts to charge it (i.e. there's no faking it)
Nurse CANNOT reduce the duration/distance of the blink once it's charged up (which presents problems for her on maps with multiple levels)
Nurse suffers mis-blinks, objects that cannot be passed through, etc, and then suffers a COOLDOWN on top of that where she cannot attack, her vision is obscured (which allows smart survivors to hide), and she has to WAIT for her blinks to charge back up again
So, tell me again how you're comparing these completely separate mechanics as though they're one and the same?
A mind game is not an educated guess. It is forcing a killer or survivor into making a play against their best interest.
No, you're completely wrong here. A mind-game is where you force the opponent to have to choose correctly for success. It's not forcing a player to play against their interest.
As a killer, it's perfectly possible to zone survivors into dead areas of the map... that's not in their interest, and it's not a mind-game either.
As a killer, it's perfectly possible to force survivors to trade hooks... that's not necessarily in their interest, and it's also not a mind-game.
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@Jasix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925525#Comment_2925525
Except MANY maps have been kill-switched in the past few months due to inaccessible totems. It is literally game breaking when survivors cannot at least have a chance to cleanse a totem such as Ruin, Devour Hope, etc. Streamers/Players are running all Hex builds now and doing Haddonfield knowing that at least one of their hexes cannot be cleansed. I get it that the Haddonfield rework was a big part of this mid-chapter, but the indifference and laziness is astounding. I thought the whole point of the kill-switch program was for issues exactly like this....
Except MANY maps have been kill-switched in the past few months due to inaccessible totems.
Many?? i.e. more than one, or even a couple, so at least three?
Please name these three maps that were kill-switched due to inaccessible totems