PlaysByShady
PlaysByShady
About
- Username
- PlaysByShady
- Joined
- Visits
- 362
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925663#Comment_2925663
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925700#Comment_2925700
You look at a survivor and hold down your power the correct amount of time.
You land near them and repeat this.
You hit them.
That is not a mind game.
Survivor goes behind a wall.
You guess where they are.
You repeat this if you did not guess correctly.
If you guess right, you hit them.
That is not a mind game.
Charge in the open.
Survivor doubles back.
Look at the ground to lower distance and hit them.
That is not a mind game.
T-bag on other side of wall.
Nurse accidentally does not hold down button enough to clear the wall and teleports right in front of it.
You escape as she fatigues.
That is not a mind game.
Nurse charges at pallet.
Throw pallet to stun.
She looks at ground and releases her power and swings mid-tp to avoid stun and hit you.
That is skillful, but not a mind-game.
You see survivor.
Teleport to them.
They do a little spin.
You miss.
That is not a mind game.
You precise blink.
They dead hard.
You blink again.
You hit them.
That is not a mind game.
Misjudge distance and teleport too far.
That is not a mind game.
Undetectable from tinkerer
Teleport upstairs and grab someone off of a generator.
Good eye, but still not a mind game.
Undetectable from Tinkerer.
Teleport Upstairs on wrong side of generator.
Survivor gets up and you hit them with follow up blink.
Nice try, not a mind game.
Run around a wall the nurse cannot see past.
Nurse teleports to the other side of wall, swings and hits you.
That is not a mind game
Run around a wall the nurse cannot see past.
Nurse teleports to the other side of wall, swings and misses you.
That is not a mind game.
Run around a wall the nurse cannot see past.
Nurse misjudges their power and does not clear the wall.
Nurse attempts to teleport again, but misjudges their power and slingshots too far.
That is not a mind game. You did not mind game the killer. The killer doesn't know how to use their power well.
Nurse charges her teleport, you use balanced landing
She blinks in front of you and hits you.
That is not a mind game. The killer did not mind game you. The killer knows how to use their power well.
I don't know what there is to understand. There are few opportunities to 'mind-game' a good nurse.
Either you blind them to your movements and force them to make a complete guess, or you're in the open and you spin and pray.
There is no 'I outsmarted the nurse' only either 'that nurse isn't very good' or 'I forced the nurse to make a blind guess' which is not at all a mind-game.
If a nurse knows where you are, you cannot mind game them.
If a nurse does not know where you are - her power is, unlike any other killer, completely binary.
See the nurse about to cut you off?
What do you do?
Double back?
50/50 they commit to it or predict.
Snore.
Oh man, this is the greatest bit of comedy writing I've ready today!
"Survivor goes behind a wall.
You GUESS where they are.
You repeat this if you did not guess correctly.
If you GUESS right, you hit them.
That is not a mind game."
Dude, what else is a mind-game except forcing your opponent to guess their way to success?????
-
@Aurelle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925681#Comment_2925681
Only inexperienced Nurse's do those things. You can't do anything against a good Nurse that knows what she is doing.
You can't do anything against a good player - killer or survivor - that know's what they're doing. That's not an argument.
It's actually a position of hypocrisy because I've yet to see any survivor main ask for survivor nerfs because of god pallets or a million-and-one 2nd chance perks and options they have, it's all to do with skill. But now you've got a killer who's played enough and levelled up their skill, and rather than respect that and up your game accordingly, you'd rather just call for nerfs so you can feel better??
-
@Aurelle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923460#Comment_2923460
You try running at the Nurse, she blinks at the ground to make sure she doesn't pass you. You hide behind a wall, she can just blink through it and hit you. Pre-drop a pallet to slow her down she just blinks through it. There's literally nothing you can do against her.
That's why you fake which way you're going to run, because once she's committed to a blink, she can't stop.
Also, the small walls are great for jukes because if she doesn't charge up her blink enough, she won't pass it. And if she charges up too much, she'll overshoot. Plus she also has to work around your own hitbox, and try to land somewhere to hit you after that. You can easily switch sides in the mean time.
In short, there's plenty you can do. You just don't have the skills to do it. Get good, and stop crying for nerfs as a bandaid to your lack of skill.
-
I still get severe frame-rate drops by using controller + mouse... it's been a year now. It used to work perfectly until the Trickster update
-
@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2922367#Comment_2922367
Yeah but also how can you get a guy who places down traps to be at the level of someone who can teleport through objects
Give him a ton more traps than he has now, and make them translucent
-
I love going against Nurses
-
TIL: A literal breaking bug which caused the killer's game to consistently freeze, and was exploitable by survivors to force this effect on the killer, forcing the killer to then DC and suffer ever increasing penalties... is exactly the same in terms of seriousness as a different bug that causes blinks to land ~0.5s faster... as if that's why you're getting hammered by Nurses 🙄
-
What's with this continual survivor rhetoric of "uncounterable" issues?
There's counters to pretty much everything, you just have to learn how to do it. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The only real things that I've seen that doesn't have counters is Iron Will (literally nothing killers can do), Boons (again, nothing killers can do), and a smattering of other survivor perks.
-
Nurse. Favourite to play as, and favourite to go against
-
Because not equipping the P3 weapon if it bothers you that much is too hard??
-
@Wampirita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2917675#Comment_2917675
I never thought I would see a need to explain a BBQ for anyone :v It's like the most common aura perk in existence
Yes... but if this particular survivor was to be believed, it doesn't work through walls, and it doesn't work across the map either 🤔
-
@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2918060#Comment_2918060
So strange how you all are pro player survivor mains on this forums. Everything is easy to counter on every killer. Even Nurse. She's trash you know. Can't take any of you seriously.
Things I Learned... hiding in lockers (literally everywhere on small enclosed maps) is a pro-player play 😂
-
@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2917476#Comment_2917476
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2917725#Comment_2917725
You both know nothing what you're talking about. In a small map, or even with just agitation starstruck nurse is oppressive. You don't just hold w and be fine. Like i said, you can't balance instadown perks because of that busted killer. At least with this change you could make strong intadown perks for killers (not hexes one) while not being overpowered on nurse. You all propose nothing.
Err... you do know lockers are a thing, right? So even in a small map, if you get struck with starstruck (which means you're likely close enough to not proc BBQ) you can literally just wait it out in a locker. You don't HAVE to start running around in full visibility!
It's so easy to counter, I literally don't understand why you're even complaining about it.
-
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/320156/overcome-nurse-with-range-add-on
Oh no. So you have to do something OTHER then mindlessly hold W ?
There are options other than holding W??? 🤨😂
Seriously though, it's really boring reading all the hate vs Nurse just because survivors can't be bothered to learn how to juke her or exploit her weaknesses. She's my favourite killer to go against
-
Been accused many times of wall hacks thanks to aura reading perks, etc. I stream rarely, so was able to capture the moment on one occasion when someone was convinced there was no way I should know where they were, and no amount of explaining how BBQ works would satisfy them
https://clips.twitch.tv/SpotlessSwissNikudonMcaT-fu9J1msnDXrPXAIS -
@Faulds said:
It is not my idea, but it is the idea that was brought up by "QuestionedTurkey". I really liked it and decided to report it here because i think Starstruck Nurse is a bit unfair... and we never know what future insta-down perks could be implemented. Of course Nurse needs her first blink to be considered as a basic attack so she could use those perks... but her being able to use them on her second/ third blink is a bit too convenient in my opinion.
Starstruck Nurse is a bit unfair
I've got a radical idea... hear me out.
How about, you keep your distance from the Nurse when she's downed someone or picking them up? Simples.
How is it fair for a killer is next to no mobility other than her blinks to have all attack related perks nullified because you don't "counter-play" Starstruck?? Survivor's always be crying "where's the counter play", and when it's obvious enough but they don't want to do it, they still cry. Sheesh!
-
@Agt_Scully said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2913289#Comment_2913289
I can't believe they removed the grades from the post-game screen! Its hard to believe that anyone complained about showing player grades - that is one of the best aspects of the post-game screen. For that, they may as well remove the scores too.
In terms of Solo Q, aren't most players in DBD playing solo? Thats the only way I've ever played DBD. Maybe BHVR should create guilds like MMOs, lol! 😁
Its hard to believe that anyone complained about showing player grades - that is one of the best aspects of the post-game screen.
Did you even read (and understand) the blog post relating to this?? Seems completely credible to me.
-
Wraith when I picked up the game for obvious reasons
Then switched to Spirit; I liked the stealth aspect and the sounds were on point at the time
Then a whole bunch of nerfs and bugs happened (sound occlusion, etc), plus was going up against depip squads so put time into Nurse and now she's my main
-
@Piruluk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2909950#Comment_2909950
Once every gen is done, hatch should spawn
I played like 10 games and never saw hatch spawn, endgame collapse almost finished, and still several survivors stay.
That's literally what it used to be. And it was broken. One key meant all 4 survivors could escape out, with nothing you can do about it.
So, no!!
-
@MigrantTheGreat said:
Yeah imma say it right now!
Your essentially complaining about the things that makes nurse a threat and I doubt you know this because you don't play Nurse!
Asking for Nurse nerfs is playing with fire while dealing with a double edged sword.
1. Nobody seems to understand that when strong killers get reworked they get gutted. Billy, Freddy, and Spirit for examples
2. Nerfing Nurse could potentially be the straw that breaks the camel's back because she's the only killer left carrying the community
3. Nerfing Nurse will be taking away from the variety pool. In otherwords, Blight will be the only killer seen at high levels
Be careful what you wish for, I suggest you get good with Nurse, get to high level MMR and try to understand why these add-ons are used before complaining.
Be careful what you wish for, I suggest you get good with Nurse, get to high level MMR and try to understand why these add-ons are used before complaining.
This.
I wonder how many people calling for her to be nerfed actually play her, and realise how hard she is!
She should literally be the survivor's beacon of perfection, because to be any good with her requires that you develop your skill (which is what survivors are always crying about... nerf NOED 'cos no skill, nerf xyz because it's skill-less, git gud, etc). And along comes a killer that literally requires skill to utilise, and instead of upping their game to compensate, they cry for nerfs instead.
Just goes to show survivors don't actually care about skill, etc. They just want easy games where they can stomp the killers. And if any killer has the means to stomp back - which is where they're supposed to be by default - then they'll just cry for nerfs instead of improving their game
-
I grinded a lot to get all perks on my P3 characters.
I don't want to grind any more. I won't feel bad if they got rid of the tiers. I'd be happy I don't have to grind any more.
How weird that we're in a place where allegedly we'd rather not making things easy for ourselves because we don't want others to have things easy to?? That kind of defeats the point of society.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2908086#Comment_2908086
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2908162#Comment_2908162
OP said that they did not have Prove Thyself. (No Perks involved which increase Genspeed)
Correct. They didn't. But does that prevent you from answering the question anyway if you have the data (because I'd be interested in the numbers), or do you just want to confine the discussion to exactly what OP said?
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
Gens take 80 seconds with 1 Survivor.
47 Seconds with 2 Survivors.
39 seconds with 3 Survivors
36 seconds with 4 Survivors.
So under 30 seconds is probably not possible, but around that, is indeed possible if they all spawn there. Which is not a bad situation for the Killer tbh, 4 Survivors on one Gen means that it is done very fast, but also not efficient on the Survivor Side.
What about with Prove and toolboxes?
-
No. Learn to juke her. If you don't know how to juke her, then play her, realise how difficult she is, explore her weaknesses, and then exploit those when playing survivor whilst giving props to killers who put the time in to operate her properly.
Don't just cry about it and call for nerfs because you can't be bothered to up your game!
-
@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907382#Comment_2907382
Can you explain how holding W is good against nurse? Maybe against someone just trying nurse for the first few times?
More distance means she's forced to use her blinks to catch up (or drop chase). More blinks = more fatigue = more opportunities to keep holding W.
Furthermore, the longer you're running away, the more obstacles you pass and the more opportunities you have to break LOS, which is devastating for Nurse. You also have opportunities for other (healthy) team-mates to cross paths with you and muddy up the scratch marks.
Holding W vs a Nurse is very stronk
-
@Dionysus42 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IFU041I8XDTJ/mmr-png.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YNC5MKMA6MN6/artist-png.png
Can't wait to hear about how somebody winning a lot with Artist proves she needs to be 110
Did you even watch the video?
1) He changed the win condition, because of MMR
2) He got the remaining 20 on the day when MMR tests were going on, and it's quite possible it could have been turned off.
What was your point again??
-
1) Blame the killer for camping when survivors are literally floating around the hook
2) Blame the killer for tunnelling when a survivor literally unhooks in front of their face unnecessarily - usually after leading the killer back to the hook
3) Gloat about easy wins at the end of the game unless the opponent(s) were obviously and overtly trying to be toxic in some way
-
@GoodBoyKaru said:
Every killer should have counterplay because this is a video game and video games should be fun, fair, and balanced.
Everything survivors have and/or can do should also have counterplay, because this is a video game and video games should be fun, fair, and balanced.
X being too strong means X should be nerfed, not Y brought up to X's level. Y can still be buffed, just not to the extent of X.
In principle I agree... but how do you balance a 1v4? If every survivor is able to counter-play each killer, then it means the killers have to spend a disproportionate amount of time chasing each survivor (who each have their own 4 perks at their disposal, to the killer's 4 in total) which puts them at a disadvantage already.
The killer needs an edge in the 1v1 to be able to win chases quickly to make up for the survivor's numbers and ability to spread themselves out and work on multiple objectives simultaneously.
-
Why o why do you want to nerf Pop again?? There's barely enough time to use it as it is on most killers unless you pair it with another perk that highlights which gen you should use it on.
The timings are ridiculous. Survivors get a 60 DS timer, so they can literally just mooch around and do sweet F-A, yet still escape after 60 seconds. But the killer has literally 45 seconds (actually, slightly less) from hooking someone to working out which gen to apply it on and making their way to that gen which - if the survivor that got downed played correctly - is the furthest away from the killer.
-
@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903939#Comment_2903939
Claudette is refusing to do gens, which can start endgame, therefore she's holding the match hostage
And the killer is also standing over the hatch, the closing of which also starts the EGC. So like I said, both parties have means at their disposal to bring about the end of the game, and therefore it's not being held hostage by anyone.
-
Neither is holding the match hostage because each player has mechanics at their disposal for the game to come to an end.
A match is held hostage when a player can literally do nothing to bring about an end to the game (or at least their part in it)
-
yawn
omg, is this discussion of "how do we further nerf nurse but without making it obvious that we want to nerf her into the ground" still going on?
On one hand survivors are like "nerf NOED, it requires no skill", and then comes a killer that literally requires skill to get anywhere with her... and they want that nerfed too because they just don't want to learn how to juke this killer who doesn't have to walk around loops, etc.
-
@AnchorTea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902045#Comment_2902045
Upgrading to a whple new engine would take a brand new game to happen
How so? My understanding is that UE4 assets, etc, work perfectly well in UE5.
-
I love the logic here. A perk is released that's like 5x stronger than everything else. It gets nerfed so it's only 4x stronger, and then 3x stronger, and the fanboys will only see the quantity of nerfs and not where it currently sits in terms of features it offers.
It's still an uncounterable perk from the killer's perspective, and is a 5th perk for survivors being as the effects apply to everyone universally, as well as increasing healing speed, etc.
-
I don't understand her power now. In the short chase around pallets etc, she can't hear the survivor (who can also run iron will to be completely silent, regardless of Stridor), and whilst the survivors can't see her, they can hear exactly where she is and move accordingly.
I don't think I've actually ever won a 50/50 since this change because it's not a 50/50 any more. Survivors have the info, Spirit gains nothing but marginal speed which is not enough to make up for the fact that you can literally hear her coming (and see if you pay attention to grass, etc)
-
@Kurri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902037#Comment_2902037
Wait is that why chests that had already been opened don't open till you walk past them?
As killer that's so annoying 'cos you think someone's there and waste time looking for them
-
@Peanits said:
To put it simply, framerates are the end result, they don't say a whole lot about what goes on behind the scenes.
Say you want to hit 60 FPS on the last generation of consoles. In order to do this, both the GPU and CPU must be able to render a frame in 16ms (1 second / 60). If either one can't do this, it becomes a bottleneck and starts to lower the framerate. You could have the most badass GPU out there, but if the CPU can't handle it, your framerate isn't going to go any higher.
In DBD's case, we're already below that threshold on the GPU side of things. We could add more details and sparkles and it generally won't lower the framerate for those consoles. On the CPU side of things, however, there's still some work to be done to get the frame times under 16ms.
We're constantly working on improving that by doing things like optimizing off screen objects (so they aren't updating when they don't need to be), and a whole bunch of technical things I can't even begin to explain. This all takes time, however, since doing something as simple as preventing an animation from playing off screen may prevent a sound effect that's tied to that animation from playing.
Every game is different, though. Some will have relatively little going on for the CPU to deal with and be very GPU heavy instead.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901981#Comment_2901981
This is not the case.
Can we assume that serious consideration is being given to upgrade to UE5? It seems that opens up huge possibilities for optimisation?
-
@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901655#Comment_2901655
If it is that hard to do why do other games also can do that? Just asking
Because of reasons.
If you're going to ask an extraordinary vague question, you should expect nothing better than an extraordinarily vague answer. You're not even trying to compare apples and oranges, but rather you've just gone straight to apples vs fruit in general whilst expecting a serious answer 😂
-
@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901143#Comment_2901143
Ye lets ignore the suggestions I made there trying to improve it but instead try to make fun about that, how old are you?
How can you improve an algorithmic system unless you have some fundamental understanding of how it works in the first place? Your "suggestions" only really make sense to those on the far left of the Dunning-Kruger effect... i.e. they don't, to anyone with some knowledge of how it actually works.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2900828#Comment_2900828
A lot of the older content in this game is likely not optimised. By that i mean that the code isn't very efficient, and by that i mean that the code is coded in way more lines than it could have been.
DBD was intended to be a short little game to be sold on steam. But then it got popular with the halloween DLC and they kept adding to it. But the foundation was still coded with the game being a short-term game meaning it likely wasn't coded with future content in mind.
When you look at other games like Resident Evil or Overwatch the developers know that the games are going to be long term and so they made custom engines for those games so they can run optimally.
A lot of the older content in this game is likely not optimised. By that i mean that the code isn't very efficient, and by that i mean that the code is coded in way more lines than it could have been.
Code efficiency has little to do with the number of lines. In fact, it's usually the case that better optimised code actually uses more lines of code, because it uses different algorithms to achieve the same result depending on size of dataset, needs, etc.
Code is inefficient if (a) you're running unnecessary code and (b) it's an inefficient implementation of a specific algorithm. You can resolve both by adding in more logic gates and different implementations for various tasks... which means more code (and of course, much better structure which is what's being inferred here)
-
I love these posts about MMR from people who don't know anything about basic algorithms but presume to think that they can immediately design a much better system than people who've been working on it for well over a year with all the data at hand. It's not arrogant at all. 😂
-
@sizzlingmario4 said:
Yes, I've said this before, and I think it's a very fair nerf to Nurse that does not destroy her at all. A power as strong as hers should never be allowed to come with an instadown. This would obviously still keep her a very strong killer but reduces stuff like starstruck nurse on midwich or MYC floods of rage nurse which I've already been seeing a lot of.
Imagine if blight could run starstruck and instadown you with a flick. Obviously Iri Tag exists, but it's balanced by being an iridescent and that it only works on the last rush so it requires extra planning.
I realize that this would pretty much kill any basic attack/Exposed perk on her, and while you can make a valid argument for keeping them basic attacks as she is pretty much entirely reliant on her ability to get hits (whereas even the worst Blight for instance could still play M1 killer at 115%), Nurse already breaks a bunch of the fundamental rules of the game and it's not like changing it would make her any less of an anomaly.
I do not believe Nurse needs a full-blown rework or anything, but this change is a good idea in my opinion.
I think it's a very fair nerf to Nurse that does not destroy her at all.
She. Literally. Has. No. Basic. Attack. Capability. Except. If. A. Survivor. Literally. Stands. Still!!
Which means any perk that requires basic attack functionality would be completely useless on her.
She already has to wait for blinks to be available, charge them up (with no option to cancel), blink (accurately), and then swing within a very short window, and then suffer fatigue. And you're still not happy with all these challenges because Nurse mains put the hours in to warrant the skill level required to play her??
She's perfectly fine where she is. Survivor mains just need to learn to juke her instead of crying about everything that doesn't pander to their simplistic playstyle.
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2898255#Comment_2898255
I lost interest when you tried to argue that Nurse can sustain 4.46 m/s without addons.
me??
-
@egg_ said:
This is not going to be a rant thread, because I actually did some maths and therefore I'm bringing some quality data to support my thesis, so brace yourselves because this is going to be a long thread, with numbers too. A lot of stuff will be repeated and/or redundant, partly to understand what numbers I'm using (so you can scroll back and see how I calculated them), partly for myself since I wrote this in pieces.
First of all, we will need some data. More specifically, power times and movement speeds, that can be gathered here https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Sally_Smithson#Power_Trivia and here https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Movement_Speeds#The_Nurse
I will expose the assumptions I'm making:
- we are taking into consideration raw distances. This to avoid discussions like "yes but break line of sight and double back" or stuff like that, which has no value whatsoever in the points I'm going to make;
- the nurse 'example' we are using will have no 'dead times': therefore, we are looking at the optimal use of movement blink charging times (no seconds wasted between the moment the blinks are ready and the moment the nurse starts charging them, no overcharging of the first blink: everything will be immediate), while always holding W (always moving forward) towards the survivor;
- we are assuming range addons are working as intended. More specifically, as stated in the pwoer trivia, a blink maximum time is 1.5 seconds. The addons descriptions only mention that the charge time is increased (maintaining the normal charge time / meters ratio) but not the blink time, which is capped at 1.5 seconds. Therefore I assume that for blinks longer than 20 meters, the cap will always be 1.5 seconds per blink -> changes the blink movement speed to compensate;
- the second blink is assumed to last 1 second and to cover the full distance of 12 meters;
- last assumption: I'm taking into consideration the "worst case scenario" for the nurse, which is having to catch up after blinking twice and lunging, giving her the longest fatigue + full recovery of both blinks.
So let's start with the numbers. At first I will analyze the distances covered while using no addons, dark cinture alone, fragile wheeze alone, and both the addons together. Then we will compare the results with range addons. The formula used is simple:
Total distance = Fatigue duration × Fatigue movement speed + Walking time × Walking movement speed + Blink charge time × Blink charge movement speed + Blink range (max) + Chain blink time × Chain blink movement speed + Second blink range (max)
The fatigue for the aforementioned scenario lasts 3.5 seconds, at which the nurse moves at 0.96 m/s. The distance covered is 3.36 m (constant).
Charging the first full blink takes 2 seconds, at which the nurse moves at 2.89 m/s. Space covered = 5.78 m.
The first blink lasts 1.5 seconds and covers 20 meters. The second blink is assumed to last around 1 second and cover 12 meters (^assumption). To charge it, the nurse will use 1.2 seconds at which she moves at 1.16 m/s. Distance covered: 1.392 m.
Total fixed distance: 42.532 m; total fixed time: 9.2s
The only variable in this case is the time that the nurse consumes walking normally after fatigue, which is affected by the addons. Therefore, I will calculate the single cases and add up the fixed values to each one of them:
- no addons: walks for 2.5 seconds at normal movement speed of 3.85 m/s. Distance covered: 9.625 m. Total distance covered: 52.157 m. Total time: 11.7 s. Avg speed: 4.46 m/s
- dark cincture: walks for 1.7 s. Distance covered: 6.545 m. Total distance covered: 49.077 m. Total time: 10.9 s. Avg speed: 4.50 m/s.
- fragile wheeze: walks for 1.3 s. Distance covered: 5.005 m. Total distance covered: 47.537 m. Total time: 10.5 s. Avg speed: 4.53 m/s.
- both addons: walks for 0.5 s. Distance covered: 1.925 m. Total distance covered: 44.457 m. Total time: 9.7 s. Avg speed: 4.58 m/s.
Now lets compare this data with a survivor's data, namely the survivor that has just been M1ed and is running in a straight line away from the nurse. The survivor's data is obviously easier to calculate. They will have a fixed 6 m/s speed boost for 2 seconds (fixed 12 meters), then run at 4 m/s for the remaining time. I'm not considering any decelarion aspect (is there even any?): the transition between the 6 m/s and the 4 m/s is instant.
- no addons: 12 + (11.7 - 2) × 4 = 50.8 m. Distance difference: 1.357 m.
- dark cincture: 12 + (10.9 - 2) × 4 = 47.6 m. Distance difference: 1.477 m.
- fragile wheeze: 12 + (10.5 - 2) × 4 = 46 m. Distance difference: 1.537 m.
- both addons: 12 + (9.7 - 2) × 4 = 42.8 m. Distance difference: 1.657 m.
This means that the better addon you use, the more distance the nurse covers, giving a smaller window of reaction to the survivor. Bear in mind that we're not taking into account the lunge too, as it would happen instantly after the data provided. But anyway, as you can see, the actual difference between using and not using addons is merely 30 cms. The 'actual' difference is that everything is sped up as it takes place in a smaller window of time. However, this is not what this thread is looking into. This data is used as a source of comparison with the actual point of the thread, which I'm going to explain now.
When we take into consideration range addons (Heavy Panting and Kavanagh's Last Breath), we intoduce another variable: charge time. However, most of the numbers used until now stay the same.
- Heavy Panting only: we add 0.4 seconds to the first blink charge time with a speed of 2.89 m/s = 1.156 m, and 4 meters to the blink range. Since no addons are affecting the blink recharge time, we take the previous no addons data and simply add this. Final data is: 57.313 m in 12.1 s. Average movement speed: 4.74 m/s.
- KLB only: we add 0.6 seconds to the first blink charge time with a speed of 2.89 m/s = 1.734 m, and add 6 meters to the total distance = 59.891 m in 12.3 s. Avg speed: 4.87 m/s.
- Both addons: we add 1 second to charging time at 2.89 m/s = 2.89 m, and add 10 meters to the total range. Total distance covered: 65.047 m in 12.7 s. Avg speed: 5.12 m/s.
- Heavy Panting + Dark Cincture: Total Distance = 49.077 + 1.156 + 4 = 54.233 m. Time = 10.9 + 0.4 = 11.3 s. Avg speed: 4.80 m/s
- Heavy Panting + Fragile Wheeze: Total distance = 47.537 + 1.156 + 4 = 52.693 m. Time = 10.5 + 0.4 = 10.9 s. Avg speed: 4.83 m/s.
- KLB + Dark Cincture: Total Distance = 49.077 + 1.734 + 6 = 56.811 m. Time = 10.9 + 0.6 = 11.5 s. Avg speed: 4.94 m/s
- KLB + Fragile Wheeze: Total distance = 47.537 + 1.734 + 6 = 55.271 m. Time = 10.5 + 0.6 = 11.1 s. Avg speed: 4.98 m/s.
Looking at the average speed alone, you can already conclude how strong range addons have. But let's compare it in terms of 'closing the gap' with the survivor, by calculating the distance covered by them in the same fragment of time and then subtracting it to the distance covered by the nurse:
- Heavy panting: 12 + (12.1 - 2) × 4 = 52.4 m. Distance difference: 4.913 m.
- KLB: 12 + (12.3 - 2) × 4 = 53.2 m. Difference: 6.691 m.
- Both addons: 12 + (12.7 - 2) × 4 = 54.8 m. Difference: 10.247 m.
- HP + DC: 12 + (11.3 - 2) × 4 = 49.2 m. Difference: 5.033 m.
- HP + FW: 12 + (10.9 - 2) × 4 = 47.6 m. Difference: 5.093 m.
- KLB + DC: 12 + (11.5 - 2) × 4 = 50 m. Difference: 6.811 m.
- KLB + FW: 12 + (11.1 - 2) × 4 = 48.4 m. Difference: 6.871 m.
Conclusion + personal comment:
As you can see, the distance covered when using range addons is a lot higher than that of the survivor. Not only that, but the use of Fragile wheeze only, in terms of raw distance, gives almost 300% more distance than using both recharge addons together. This renders almost any effort of making distance from the nurse useless, as she can immediately close the gap. I don't think this is healthy at all for the game, and the fact that those addons have no downside whatsoever is mindblowing for me.
As I said earlier, recharge addons almost have no impact on the difference of the raw distances covered, they just impact the speed at which the game is played, and I don't want to discuss the balance of that in this thread, as the numbers are very similar.
If we want to consider a more realistic scenario, the nurse will hit the survivor, and they will run somewhere where they can break line of sight. The nurse will be forced to walk for longer than the recharge time required. Then she will blink again to catch the survivor, who is probably trying to break LoS and build distance. If they 'win' the mindgame, they have a chance to actually make said distance, forcing the nurse to be a lot more precise in her next blink series. However, outplaying a nurse with range addons is basically useless, because she can close the gap immediately.
If we take an addonless spirit for example, in the situation where she M1s a survivor and has her phase ready to go, you will find out that the duration of the phase is just enough for her to be in lunge range, if she tracks the exact same pathing as the survivor, and provided that there are no pallets or windows in between (you can do the math). Nurse doesn't care about these. So I don't think it is healthy for her to keep having these addons, at least with no downside. Taking spirit as example again, it would be as if Yakuyoke Amulet was never nerfed, or if MDR showed scratchmarks).
Finally, even though in terms of raw numbers, double range addons combination is the strongest, I personally think that the 'best' is KLB + FW, as it helps cover the gap while also giving only 1.3 seconds of 'forced' walking time while the nurse can locate the survivor again.
Again, this is not a thread about nurse, but about her addons.
NB: I posted the average movement speeds as a normalization metric, as every case examined took into consideration different times and distances covered. However, this is not a discussion on the average speed of the nurse. Don't interpret it as "wow, she's actually faster than a standard 4.6!", because every killer has a way of closing the gap with survivors, and on average they will have an overall speed higher than 4.6 m/s too (blight, spirit, billy moving extremely fast almost as much as they want, clown and freddy slowing down survivors which could be seen as them speeding up, and so on).
NBB: I really hope the math is correct. Maybe I made some mistakes here and there, if someone had the time to double check this it would do me a great favor :)
Err... no
I didn't read the whole thing because I lost interest at the part where you essentially argued against a hypothetical scenario of perfect movement and play (e.g. optimal movement blink, not breaking LOS, etc).
This is called a straw-man, when you over-simply a situation to the point that it's easy to dismiss. You can look at the numbers and addons for strength, etc, but not at the expense of ignoring all other factors of being able to actually put them into practice.
-
I love going against Nurse. I can't loop for poop, so Nurse is much easier for me because she doesn't do the traditional looping but rather LOS mind-games which I'm perfectly happy with (plus she's my main so I know her limits).
I hate going against Huntress though. Just cannot do anything vs a good one.
-
@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/318434/the-survivor-meta-is-a-lie
Eh...let's take a look here.
- If a perk is so strong that killers have to play around it existing even when it doesn't, then that perk has transcended 'overpowered' and entered the realms of game breaking. It remind me of a specific strat in Starcraft 2 that, if you didn't specifically prepare against it, would be an auto-lose. So you had to prepare for it, and thus sometimes lost games against greedy players who knew you'd be setting up defenses and just fast expand.
- Yes, BT and DS are sort of required to discourage tunneling, but that's a sign of a wider issue.
- In this comp, I see: Iron Will. Spinechill. DS. No less than 3 CoH. That's still pretty damn meta. Kindred is absolutely a meta perk and sees play even at the highest MMRs.
- If they were smacking killers with Bond, Blast Mine, Autodictat and Fixated, that would be impressive.
- Dead Hard is absolutely good outside of an SWF. Yes, there are some outside exceptions where SB could be as strong, but that's neither here nor there.
- The survivors that tend to survive are the ones in SWFs. The solos that tend to survive are the ones who play meta - which, yes, for solo is a little different and a bit more of a tossup (that triple CoH could easily have been a triple Kindred).
- Built to Last is a solid perk, but to justify it you need to be running a pretty damn good item.
- A good player can win with any perks. However, that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have won even more convincingly with meta perks.
Please get out of here with your well considered thoughts and comments... we don't do that here 😉
-
@danielmaster87 said:
The audio was fine years ago, and then the devs changed something, and killers haven't been able to rely on sound ever since. Whether survivors are too close to you or too far from you, you just can't hear em. Add to that Iron Will and stuff, it's like killers by design are supposed to track survivors with their eyes and guesswork alone.
It was when they added sound occlusion. I remember it distinctly. You could hear gens from outside buildings, etc, so you only needed to be in proximity to hear whether it was active or not. Then they turned the occlusion on so strong to the point you literally had to be in LOS and touching distance to hear it... walk around a doorway and suddenly no gen. Then they balanced that out a little more but it was never like before.
-
@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2888059#Comment_2888059
I never said it's every time - and in my example, I clearly used a field.
In an open field, survivors are very, very easy to blink to.
The point of my statement was not to suggest that this was EVERY blink or EVERY instance. But going from healthy to downed just because you happen to be in the open and don't have 'easy outs' like Dead Hard is never satisfying.
And even when I play her, yeah - sometimes it's nice to make dirtbag survivors eat those flashy clicks from earlier. But hopping on someone while they can't do anything - taking them down in under 10 seconds... it feels scummy.
Scummy thing is my opinion.
But the fact that the nurse can reliably execute such feats is what makes it less satisfying and more annoying on both sides.
In an open field, survivors are very, very easy to blink to.
Yeah... and chase down with every other killer.
How many open fields are on The Game, Midwich, Lerys, etc?
It's simple. If you're playing Nurse, don't go into the field. Same as if you're playing against a Trapper, you check windows etc for traps.
But going from healthy to downed just because you happen to be in the open and don't have 'easy outs' like Dead Hard is never satisfying.
But surely you know you're playing Nurse? And there's cover around. You can literally hide. Also, short loops are particularly effective against Nurse because (a) you can run around them faster than she can, and (b) it forces her to blink correctly, at the risk of under-blinking and going nowhere, or over-blinking and being further away, both of which are exceptionally punishing.
Again, sounds to me like bad survivor play. It's not a foregone conclusion that just because a survivor is in the open that they're down, and even if they are, some killers get that because of their power. If a Legion catches you all together, chances are that's 4 injures, and now possibly even a down for free. You're just describing their power whilst making no attempt to counter-play against it.
-
@Valik said:
She's just unfun to play against.
She's either a snooze fest, or she stomps you into the dirt. A lot of people are so done with the concept they just give up.
I don't think it's that they don't think they can win - that it's helpless, I believe they simply don't care... because it isn't fun.
It isn't okay or viable - it's just that people get frustrated and bored and... well... they do what people do when they get fed up.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2885672#Comment_2885672
Both.
Nerf both.
They both need reworks very badly.
Nurse is so incredibly bad for the game that literally entire perk launches have to be snuffed and balanced around her, because she fundamentally breaks the game. Teleporting across a field and smacking a survivor - then doing it again to get a down in 5 seconds is NOT satisfying, it's garbage design.
Feast or Famine.
Either so incredibly good that few can even step toe-to-toe with you. Or miss a few hits and be completely unable to seize the momentum from the survivors.
Very poorly
Teleporting across a field and smacking a survivor - then doing it again to get a down in 5 seconds is NOT satisfying, it's garbage design.
And there is the straw man. It's not so simple to teleport across a field and smack a survivor. You need to be within range, be able to guess where the survivor will be after you land the blink, turn to face the correct orientation and then try to get the hit off... with a huge penalty if you miscalculate any aspect of this.
It's incredibly satisfying when you do it right. And usually if you've done it right, it's because the survivor allowed it to happen by being completely predictable.
Nurse can be juked. It's just that most people cba learning how, and they'd rather Nurse be gone than to up their level of skill.
-
What I love about Nurse is that, survivors are all like "nerf NOED, it requires NO SKILL!!", and the Nurse comes along, and she's only lethal if the player has put a lot of hours in her to learn her (i.e. built up their skill). Then survivors are like "nerf Nurse, we cba learning how to juke her, we want a killer with no skill!"
Like, make up your mind guys?