PlaysByShady
PlaysByShady
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People talking about Nurse breaking all the rules... what "all the rules"?
She can go directly through objects in a straight line after having powered up her blink... that's literally her only power. And you can most definitely abuse it because she CANNOT hit through solid objects after having emerged from a blink.
So, how to counter a Nurse:
1) Break line of sight... she can only blink in straight lines, so break LOS and make like you're going one way but fake going another
2) On maps with multiple levels, run TOWARD the Nurse. She cannot cancel her blink once she starts to charge, so you'll either force her to over-blink, or to go down to the other level.
3) Use walls... jungle gym walls, z-walls, heck even the rocks and trees will do. She has to blink to one side or the other. You run to the other side. You need to make every blink a 50/50 for her. If you're losing the 50/50, that's on you! It's not because Nurse is OP. It's because you're not juking her when you absolutely can and should be!
4) When another survivor is being chased, bust out the gens!!
5) Do not "drop" in chase, i.e. use vaults where there's a drop, etc. That's a free hit for a Nurse because she can blink directly to where you land and you'll likely still be there because of the stagger... unless you have BL or she's in fatigue.
6) Be unpredictable... Nurses have to predict where you'll be when you're running to land a successful blink. If you're being predictable, you're going to get hit. If you're getting hit, it's because you're predictable. Again, that's on you!
7) Hold 'w'! Unless she's got range addons, it's hard for a Nurse to catch-up as quickly as you guys are making out. She not only has the fatigue to go through, but literally has to charge up her blink, and then execute it (and likely mis-blink if she's panicking to try and catch you). That's plenty of time to make distance... more distance than she can actually cover in a single blink cycle.
8) Don't drop pallets against a Nurse, unless you're good enough to stun her with it. Otherwise it's literally a free hit because you're locked in animation to drop the pallet. Don't try the vault mind-game either, because she can "fake" the blink to the other side by mis-blinking making you vault into her for a free hit.
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"I don't know how to run a Nurse, therefore Nurse has no counter-play, waaaah" 😂
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Beautiful!! Played a few games this evening, and deliberately blinked through some hills. So satisfying now that that works, and I even got a down from it :D
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843763#Comment_2843763
That’s not the point. Please explain to me how a killer that ignores the game physics is balanced. At least Spirit and Blight are strong while having to obey the rules. As a result, those two are way more balanced than Nurse will ever be.
She can only chase via blink, and when she gets it wrong, she's punished with fatigue (and can lose sight of survivors), and a cooldown on re-using her power.
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@legoshi said:
I’ve been playing nurse for awhile since 2020 ( just made a forum account a couple of weeks ago ) I consider myself pretty good with her, my mmr is really high. But sometimes I get absolutely ######### up by good survivors because they are very unpredictable, when you guys say the only counter play is to double back then a good nurse is going to blink to where she last saw you and then follow up. You gotta be predictable and change up how you juke her. Trust me nurse is not completely uncounterable. Plus, it took me a really long time to get good with her since I first started her on console.
my mmr is really high
How exactly do you know this?
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Still problematic in 5.6.0
Weirdly, the first time I went into the killer tutorial, it was absolutely fine. Then I loaded the survivor tutorial and the FPS tanked immediately. Then I went back to the killer tutorial to see if it was survivor specific, but that tanked immediately thereafter too. I have no explanation.
@MandyTalk it's been nearly a year... is there any way to get someone to look at this please, because it does limit my ability to play (and it's not like it's something new, it worked perfectly up to the Trickster release).
Thanks
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Play how you like. Survivor's always be complaining.
Survivors are the masters at shaming killers for made-up rules, but as yet there doesn't exist any single rule that survivors as a whole will agree it bad-form on their part.
Gen rushing? Nope, just doing objectives
T-bagging? Nope, just getting the killer's attention
Flashlight clicky clicky? Nope, attention... and in specific cases it's used for fast turns (since the character turns to face the same direction as the camera to click the light)
Body blocking? Nope, strategic play.
I'm fine with all of the above. But the same applies to killer too. Regardless of whether the survivors think the killer is camping, tunnelling, etc, it's a strategy and they have the tools to defend against it. It's not up to the killer to make the match fun for survivors. Killers play for themselves.
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7-8
There's just too many bugs that don't get any attention; for me is when BHVR broke the Controller+Mouse usage last year. There were "attempted" fixes (their words), I don't understand why no-one could buy a DS4 controller, plug it in and make sure the fixes actually worked!
The grind for perks is just ridiculous. And the perks are mostly lacklustre. There's only a few decent ones on both sides so you mostly see the same builds over and over again. There's very little variety or creativity.
It's stopped being fun and more of a grind, and each new chapter doesn't add anything "fun". It's just more grind and stupid challenges in the rift (spin the killer 8x, then jump through a window the moment a generator completes that you worked on for 80% in a previous match).
Playing killer: it seems the only way to "win" is to play sweaty and use OP combination of perks, which is fine. But it also means if you try to experiment, you will lose and you will lose badly and you will be made to feel bad, etc, etc, etc.
As survivor: I play solo, my team-mates are mostly useless across the board (not doing gens, urbanning around, etc) and I've lost count how many times I got one-hooked because there was literally no coordination or strategy employed.
I'm tired of it.
But I like Nurse... she's the only thing keeping me in for now.
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Because the game is designed with 16:9 in mind for looping purposes, etc. Anything that would affect this by adding extra verticality is an unfair advantage. I don't understand why this is difficult to follow?
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
It probably didn't take all that long to fix the Nurse bugs, it's more they bundle all the bug fixes together instead of doing little minor patches here and there to save on costs since I'm pretty sure they have to pay every time they do a console update whereas steam is free or at least cheaper to patch.
Someone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong there. I do remember a mod talking about it once I just can't remember all the details of it.
As far as Haddonfield goes, it's a map remake so who knows on that one.
This!
Finding and resolving the bug is only one step of a longer process to release changes into a live system across multiple platforms, alongside other changes/updates that also need to be pushed out.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2832941#Comment_2832941
Bugs may exist anywhere in a system but here the most common issue these kill-switches are used to is for the purpose of a match (map, killer, ...). So this idea of his isn't far fetched at all.
Adding a flag to disable allowing to queue with the character is more effort, yes, but it should be pretty negligible, especially given the mechanic already exists. We aren't speaking about designing an algorithm or a new subsystem here. It's just one more for the killer. Heck, if instead of a boolean they use an int, they can even bitmask it. Pretty trivial isn't it?
Your second suggestion about the possibility of having a bug anywhere is extremely unlikely. It's borderline science-fiction. Have you checked that word, "hubris", yourself? Do you realize how condescending you sound in that reply?
I'm sorry but here again it doesn't require an update of the program. What that person describes is exactly what a kill-switch is. It only requires having a context loaded, for an example, when the game is starting and connecting to the game's server and applying the (hopefully named) flags. Given the engine is UE4, it's practically built-in.
You could say it's a design oversight.
Credential should be irrelevant against facts and logic. Making this statement doesn't help your case. Ever heard of the authority fallacy?
If you want credentials, here are some. I'm a computer scientist with 40+ years of experience (I've started in 1981). And all this is would mean exactly zilch if I wasn't able to get broad-enough view of a suggestion to see its merits and instead focused on irrelevant details to, apparently, try to discredit it.
Bugs may exist anywhere in a system but here the most common issue these kill-switches are used to is for the purpose of a match (map, killer, ...). So this idea of his isn't far fetched at all.
Where's your evidence for this?
Also, software isn't written with 'common purpose' in mind. You either support a thing, or you don't support it. You either write the code to do the thing, or you don't. Simple as. You need to stop conflating paradigms.
Adding a flag to disable allowing to queue with the character is more effort, yes, but it should be pretty negligible, especially given the mechanic already exists.
The effort to add that is negligible, yes. But it opens up the doors to a multitude of other potential problems.
We aren't speaking about designing an algorithm or a new subsystem here. It's just one more for the killer.
And it won't stop there once you tread down this path.
Your second suggestion about the possibility of having a bug anywhere is extremely unlikely. It's borderline science-fiction.
And you know this just because you say so, eh?
Given the engine is UE4, it's practically built-in.
You could say it's a design oversight.
Ah, the rookie knowledge... just because I've got a bunch of tools in my workshop now makes me a master artisan I suppose? After all, I've got a drill, hammer, impact driver, power saw, etc. How can I not be an expert carpenter. I've got all the tools the professionals use!
Credential should be irrelevant against facts and logic.
😂😂😂
Not when the "facts" are in dispute, or the logic based on flawed premises. Credentials absolutely matter, it's a demonstration of credibility that you understand how what your saying works in reality, instead of only in your own imagination.
I'm a computer scientist with 40+ years of experience (I've started in 1981)
Experience of what, exactly? Computer Science is a fairly wide field, I should know, I have a BSc Degree in it.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2832744#Comment_2832744
You misunderstand the issue here. Everybody and their cats know how the kill switch works, or close.
The question, if you need it spelled out, is why a kill-switch cannot be set to simply refuse "Ready" to be pressed, allowing to invest blood-points in the Nurse's web.
😂😂😂😂😂
"You misunderstand the issue here. Everyone and their cats know how a hammer works, or close.
The question is, why can't you use a hammer to screw in nails
I love it. It reminds me of a joke someone wrote of what people thing writing code is like with regards to drones... the code was literally:
if (goingToCrashIntoEachOther) { dont() }😂
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There's two separate things being requested here, and it'd be better to focus on the more attainable one rather than the one that's not going to happen.
People that do clicky clicky probably can "spam" the flight light a handful of times a second. I doubt that'll get changed.
But the mega-spam scriptaculous bzzz of clicks with trigger the lights like 60+ times a second, those are definitely problematic.
I don't think a 2-3 second cooldown is going to happen. But maybe a restriction to 5(?) clicks per second or something much more manageable is likely to get people on board (and possibly implemented)
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2833083#Comment_2833083
How is that not a kill switch? Perks and offerings can be killed switch but still show up in webs. Nurse could be killed switch and still have the ability to spend blood points. It all depends on the system they put in place.
Yes the current system doesn't support that. Doesn't mean a future system couldn't.
le sigh...
What effect does a perk or offering have outside from actual gameplay? Nothing. It's literally just a picture. And it's exceptionally unlikely, bordering on almost impossible, for a picture to break an application.
Unlike an actual animated character that itself requires several additional libraries of code to render and display, just when you select them. Also their own unique blood-webs, etc.
You cannot compare the two, and the fact that you think they're the same demonstrates you have little understanding of how to build any application of any degree of sophistication.
So to explain to you how that's not a kill-switch would be a waste of time, because I've already explained this.
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@Zozzy said:
Lets be real. The majority of Epic accounts are probably owned by cheaters. Whoever signed a deal to release the game for free needs to fix this gigantic blunder and purge any account made during the free week that has not been used within the last 30 days or has not had any progress made on it since creation.
Even i am starting to run into suspect behaviour and they are usually a globe icon. There is no point reporting these when they have hundreds of backup accounts from the free week.
Whoever signed a deal to release the game for free needs to fix this gigantic blunder and purge any account made during the free week that has not been used within the last 30 days or has not had any progress made on it since creation.
Err, no dude. I claimed the game via EGC, but felt no need to install and play it on my current machine because I already have it on Steam. When my boys are older, then I may make use of it.
Until then, I've claimed it, it's mine. Leave it alone!
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2832941#Comment_2832941
Its bs to say you can't grey out the search for match if a specific killer is selected. A two tier kill switch is not outside the realm of possibilties. Yes, disabling a charater outright is the easiest method. I disagree that a method of just preventing a character from joining a lobby is as complicated as you put it.
Like I've said, this is a system they put in place quickly. It can be made better in time.
Its bs to say you can't grey out the search for match if a specific killer is selected.
No-one said that can't be done. In fact, I literally said, "I agree, but that's not a kill-switch."
Seems like you're less interested in reading and understanding, and more interested in arguing a point from a position of relative ignorance on the matter. Good luck with that.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2832744#Comment_2832744
You could assume the most common reason to disable a killer being something to do within a match and not the menuing system to select that character.
You are making it seem we want every conceivable option kill switchable. If there's a match breaking bug you prevent the character from being played. If there's a bug that crashes the game in the menu, you disable it completely.
Besides, menu bugs don't seem to reach the level of kill switch considering the Frankenstein of a character you can make right now with Cheryl.
No, its not difficult to disable the search for match button when killer == Nurse. Consider that switching killers in lobby is not possible prevents any circumventing.
Its just an oversight on a new feature that was used for the first time. Improvements can always be made.
You could assume the most common reason to disable a killer being something to do within a match and not the menuing system to select that character.
No, you can't. I'd love to know where you got this idea from. Bugs can literally exist anywhere in a system.
You are making it seem we want every conceivable option kill switchable.
No, I'm saying (with 20+ years as a software developer) that the more specific you want the option to kill-switch something, the more effort has to go into building that.
Basically, you can build a single generic kill-switch that disables everything! You can't select Nurse, you can't play Nurse, you can't go to her selection screen, etc, etc, etc. Everything is controlled from a single value. Very difficult to get it wrong.
Or, as you would like, you want to be able to disable specific features, e.g. you can access her menu/profile screen, but you can't start a game. That would require building a list of all possible options, and allowing them to be toggled individually, whilst also maintaining them any time new updates come about.
That second option is more effort than it's worth, particularly when the target is to undo the kill-switch in its entirety.
I'm not making out that you want every conceivable option kill-switchable. I'm saying that to make any option kill-switchable (i.e. aside from everything) is more work.
Besides, menu bugs don't seem to reach the level of kill switch considering the Frankenstein of a character you can make right now with Cheryl.
Again, how would you know this? A bug could exist anywhere, and there's literally nothing stopping a bug being introduced that could crash the game every time you enter the menu for a particular character and destroys the files on disc that it'd require you to reinstall, etc. Unless you're a software dev, I daresay you have no basis to claim anything you're trying to claim. You might want to look up 'hubris'
No, its not difficult to disable the search for match button when killer == Nurse. Consider that switching killers in lobby is not possible prevents any circumventing.
I agree, but that's not a kill-switch. That's a specific software update, which is a separate thing altogether and requires users to download the update for it to take effect.
A kill-switch is a remote feature-flag system that determines whether a feature should be enabled or not, i.e. so it works without code updates because the flag is toggled at a remote server.
Its just an oversight on a new feature that was used for the first time. Improvements can always be made.
No, it's design.
What are your credentials btw?
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
They've already said she will be re-enabled when Sadako releases.
Source please?
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@Rougual said:
That would make too much sense.
Ah, the ignorant comment that sounds right, but only to those who don't have a clue.
The killswitch disables the character completely; it's not designed with any particular scenario in mind other than to disable the character or perk completely because of an unknown problem.
Problem with the blood-web... killswitch.
Problem with the animations or lobby... kill switch.
Problem elsewhere... killswitch.
To fine-tune the kill-switching so it only disables particular aspects (i.e. you can select nurse and go through the blood-web but just cannot hit 'Ready') would require more specific coding to achieve just that, and to what end? None. Because the goal is to fix the problem ASAP and restore full functionality, rather than investing time allowing half-way measures in the interim.
In short, kill switches disable a feature completely and indiscriminately. We know the reason for it on this occasion, but there may be another reason the next time.
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@Nebula said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2832031#Comment_2832031
This is assuming the survivors are in a group and have their 16 perks known to each other. Solo Q survivors will run what perks they want because they don’t know what their teammates are running.
And yes, you’re correct in saying that killers don’t have exact counters to survivors perks, but they have perks that counter survivors playstyles. There are plenty of gen stalling, altruistic countering, anti-stealth, and anti-looping perks that killers can use. Not to mention you can run literally none of these perks and still camp and tunnel a player out effectively. This is a game design issue, not a player issue.
This is assuming the survivors are in a group and have their 16 perks known to each other.
No it doesn't. I've yet to see a lobby where the survivors co-ordinate unique builds. Most of the time everyone runs the meta perks; BT, DS, DH, etc
The point being, co-ordinated or not, the killer still only has 4 perks to combat everything the survivors could possibly throw at them. That's just the way the game is. So how are you making out this is unfair on the survivor because the killer might feel forced to play in a particular way?
And yes, you’re correct in saying that killers don’t have exact counters to survivors perks, but they have perks that counter survivors playstyles.
What's the perk that counters 4 COH and Shadow-Step?
What's the perk that counters Iron Will and allows killers to track injured survivors nearby who may not be bleeding because of another perk? Stridor used to help, but now IW is completely immune to it.
What's the perk that allows killers to secure the kills in EGC, when you've got multiple survivors bombing the hook with BT, and they're carrying DS for a free out?
Not to mention you can run literally none of these perks and still camp and tunnel a player out effectively. This is a game design issue, not a player issue.
I think this is the only thing I agree with you on. It still doesn't fix the mentality of "why do survivors have to carry a perk to counter killer behaviour", particularly when that thought process doesn't work the other way around.
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@Nebula said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2829818#Comment_2829818
And this is inherently the problem. Survivors shouldn’t be forced to run perks to avoid an outcome that can be fixed by better game design.
Why not? They've got 16 perks between them. Meanwhile killers are forced to run perks that don't even counter survivor's perks adequately.
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@BrokenSouI said:
We know exactly how the system works though...? And while you can't know the exact number. You can certainly have an educated guess on where you're at
Between the survivors you get(hours, map knowledge, knowledge of how to deal with a particular killer. And how often you get rank 1 survivor who's a hacker who escapes 100 % of the time)
At least on the killer side.
You can certainly have an educated guess on where you're at
Most, if not all, of the guessers I've seen have no clue how the MMR works. Their "guesses" are wishful supposition at best.
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@BubbaDredge said:
Seems to me basing it on rankings is the obvious choice. People say "rank doesn't mean anything but how much you've been playing the game!" Yeah. People who play the game all the time should be playing against people who play it all the time.
People who play the game all the time should be playing against people who play it all the time.
You're assuming skill is synonymous with play time. Whilst there is some correlation in the beginning, it ceases to be so much the case later.
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2829129#Comment_2829129
Even if they don't do a video recording for some reason, you'd think something as basic as a game log would be doable.
"Hey boss, according to this, that survivor ran 40mph at the 2 minute mark and flew through the air like Superman while instantly healing everyone around them. That sounds suspicious, right?"
Sure, I suppose you'd then need video evidence of more gray stuff (like a survivor working with a killer) but cheaters and hackers are killing the player base and this would (or should) greatly help against that kind of thing (and against subtle hacking since it's hard to tell even in video if a survivor is running slightly faster than they should be able to).
That's what I meant by "record"; the server wouldn't create a video. It'd just log all the inputs and events which can then be used to recreate or interpret what happened in the match. And given the server is receiving and disseminating all this information already, it's not like it's beyond the server's ability to record this.
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2828819#Comment_2828819
The point is that WE shouldn't have to be the ones to provide evidence. There is no reason that a multiplayer game in The Year of Our Lord Bubba 2022 should require anyone to have to use an outside program in order to report someone for breaking the rules. This garbage reporting system would be embarrassing in the 90s, let alone 2022...
Absolutely. There's no technical reason why the server cannot "record" the match and save it if there's a report made, which can then subject it to various simple checks (e.g. did a survivor move with impossible speed, etc)
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2828779#Comment_2828779
nice try on the deflection but there are 2 Gold ranked survivors, 1 silver ranked survivor, and 1 bronze survivor (with full purple perks) vs an ash killer who has about 1 hour of Killer experience in the past 5 months.
The rank has nothing to do with skill level... and your inability to understand this after it being repeatedly explained through various channels over the last several months is indicative of how little you're actually understanding
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I had a cheater this evening... took me 10 minutes to work out how/where to report them after the post-game feedback. They really need to streamline that and not make us jump through hoops just to find it.
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@ObservantOfTime said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2828472#Comment_2828472
You can provide your own Steam ID, that way they can find the match that got flagged and find the person who got reported.
Or... they'll just misunderstand and ban your ID 🙈
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@CryptFriend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2827416#Comment_2827416
You are absolutely thinking about this (and taking this, and going about this) the wrong way.
I want you to play a game with Nurse--doesn't matter what add-ons you use, use the best for consistency--and I want you to use the best perks you can without using a single perk that triggers on an M1.
I'm thinking that your performance won't change all that much if you're a half-decent Nurse player.
Unless, of course, you're just complaining to have something to complain about. Yes, Blight has 115% movement speed; he just goes zoom. Nurse ######### teleports. Keep in mind that she used to be 115% speed as well.
Then again, others bring up a fair point in that they're are other killers with power-assisted M1s other than Nurse, so I'm not that hung up over it.
You are absolutely thinking about this (and taking this, and going about this) the wrong way.
You're sure I'm the one taking it the wrong way... because I came up with a reasoned argument as to why Nurse's blink-attacks shouldn't count as specials being as they're the only way she can get attacks??
I want you to play a game with Nurse--doesn't matter what add-ons you use, use the best for consistency--and I want you to use the best perks you can without using a single perk that triggers on an M1.
I'm thinking that your performance won't change all that much if you're a half-decent Nurse player.
And that changes the point, how exactly?? My (or anyone elses) ability to play Nurse has absolutely no bearing on whether she blink attack should be special or not. The determining factor has to be some objective measurable metric based on killer (i.e. the character) ability. And Nurse has no ability to chase survivors down for a standard M1, unlike literally every other killer.
Unless, of course, you're just complaining to have something to complain about. Yes, Blight has 115% movement speed; he just goes zoom. Nurse ######### teleports. Keep in mind that she used to be 115% speed as well.
Ah, see, this just shows you haven't got a clue what you're talking about whilst saying I'm thinking about it the wrong way.
Yes, Blight has 115% movement. That means he can literally chase a survivor down and hit them **WITHOUT USING HIS ABILITY**.
Nurse CANNOT do that! She CANNOT chase down survivors because she's literally slower than them!
Ergo, you cannot equate Blight's lethal rush attack with a Nurse blink attack, despite the speed of movement, etc. I'm really struggling to understand how you're failing to see the point so spectacularly.
Keep in mind that she used to be 115% speed as well.
Oh really?
Well... checking the Wiki, it seems the first change to her was in Patch 1.1.2 where she was nerfed from 100% movement to 96.25% movement.
When exactly was she 115%, and why is that relevant at this point?
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It's not impossible, I managed it a couple of months back... albeit with friends who strategically died and dc'd at the appropriate moment to help me achieve it :D
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826839#Comment_2826839
You are trolling right? 😂
Well, I tell you what. Play a game with Nurse where you only blink and do basic attacks (i.e. no blink attacks), and then let's see how strong you are.
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I just had a game as Mirror Myers, and a Meg (obsession) literally kept running into my path giving me free stacks of PWYF to go chase everyone else down... and was completely clueless as to how I could see her through walls, etc.
Fun times :D
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@CryptFriend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826640#Comment_2826640
You can get m1s without her power, you just have to be incredibly clever--however, I'm sure they mean that Nurse's power-assisted m1 should be considered "special" for terms of game consistency. They aren't wrong that Nurse gets a lot of effects that other killers don't using their powers--Blight's rush attacks (for example) are special attacks, and shouldn't trigger things like the Exposed status--it would be insane if they did.
Would you be amenable to the idea of Nurse getting her hits differentiated if she got some of her joke add-ons replaced with old!Nurse add-ons? I probably would take that trade, but I'm curious to know how others feel.
@BenZ0, The Shape can tier up eight times maximum in a match, which comes out to a total of seven T3s, this is something that I know for the purpose of grinding out The Shape's unique achievement.
Another fun fact! All killers have the same base carrying speed! This means that Nurse actually moves faster than normal when carrying survivors
You can get m1s without her power, you just have to be incredibly clever
Or lucky that survivor fall for whatever tricks you want to pull with PWYF or otherwise. I'd love to see you pull off a match and get legit kills without blink-attacks
I'm sure they mean that Nurse's power-assisted m1 should be considered "special" for terms of game consistency.
Yes, that's what they mean, because certain perks won't trigger on special attacks, they only trigger on basic attacks. However, Nurse has the exception here, literally because she cannot get basic attacks like the other killers. The entire basis of her ability is that she makes the attacks after a blink, so to categorise this as special for the perks would essentially negate her ability to use all of them.
They aren't wrong that Nurse gets a lot of effects that other killers don't using their powers--Blight's rush attacks (for example) are special attacks, and shouldn't trigger things like the Exposed status--it would be insane if they did.
Last I checked, Blight is literally a 115% killer. And last I checked, 115% is more than 100%, which means Blight can literally chase down a survivor without using his power. It's completely within his means.
Whereas Nurse is actually slower than survivors. She cannot chase them down (unless you use perks and play in a very specific manner, and even then it's not consistent). Ergo, the only way she can make attacks is via the blink, which is why they're considered the same as basic for the perks. I don't see the problem here other than "waah, nerf Nurse!"
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826640#Comment_2826640
Nurse is already with her ability the strongest Killer in the game, why should she need support from exposed perks like noed or starstruck? If you didnt know starstruck nurse is absolutely busted.
That makes no sense. Nurse's blinks don't make her the strongest killer. Being able to attack after a blink makes her a strong killer, except for the fact that that's literally the only way she can get attacks anyway (aside from edge cases).
You've made a completely nonsensical argument here, and didn't even address my original question.
BTW, Starstruck isn't activated on attack. You might want to check your dbd knowledge.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826638#Comment_2826638
It's partially that but it's a trap. Camping and tunneling works until it doesn't and then the killer is left frustrated and floundering.
As an example, I had four games this morning as solo queue and my results were:
#1: killer did NOT camp or tunnel, could have easily 4Ked us but I think he was farming so 3 of us escaped
#2: Killer did camp and tunnel, 4 hooks, 1 kill
#3: Killer camped and tunneled, 3 hooks, 1 kill
#4: Killer camped and tunneled, 4 hooks, 1 kill
Of Killers #2 to #4 what they had in common was that they couldn't chase very well probably because they got to their MMR by camping and tunneling.
Now they're looking at a series of terrible games where they're frustrated, lose a fair amount until they can 3K again and then get put back where they'll continue to lose until they learn map and situational awareness, when to drop chase, switch targets, etc.
If MMR were possible to base off of more than kills and escapes they would get better matches. If it's not possible then the dev team should consider how to balance camping, tunneling and gen speeds as an integrated whole to make it so facecamping and hard tunneling (defined as 3 of 4 hook states on one survivor) is neither needed at any MMR nor possible. Until that happens, basing it off of a binary system just leads to frustration among killer players. That's why I consider it an MMR issue.
Side note: Also, redesigning the maps, killer powers or whatever so that more killers than just Nurse, Blight and Artist were capable of creating pressure on large maps would also be helpful.
If MMR were possible to base off of more than kills and escapes they would get better matches.
Your inference here is that these matches are bad, but you're literally looking at less than a handful of matches, rather that the trend over literally 10's of 1000's of matches happening every day which the devs do have access to. How are you able to determine the performance of a system from looking at individual cherry-picked examples, and ignoring the reports from the devs that escape/death rates are closer to 50% than they ever have been before?
If it's not possible then the dev team should consider how to balance camping, tunneling and gen speeds as an integrated whole to make it so facecamping and hard tunneling (defined as 3 of 4 hook states on one survivor) is neither needed at any MMR nor possible.
Here's the problem with freedom to play as you choose... you have to allow the "bad" as well as the "good". If a killer wants to face-camp and/or tunnel, how can you stop them? You can only - at best - make it more rewarding for them to chase other survivors, but given how many 2nd chance perks survivors have these days with boons on the top, I feel killers in general don't find the chase rewarding any more.
Playing killer is a stressful exercise, one mistake could cost the game, whereas survivor is literally chill - you don't even have to hold the button to do the gen any more - and yet there's more and more second chances because the game is based around survivors having equal counter-play to killers, despite there being 4 of them!
Until that happens, basing it off of a binary system just leads to frustration among killer players. That's why I consider it an MMR issue.
You've asserted a conclusion, but you made no coherent link to the problem being emergent of a "binary system".
At the end of the day, any MMR system that you're going to implement (not that you suggested one, but let's assume you did) is going to be binary in some sense... the survivor either moves up or down. You might scale the movement according to other metrics, but it's still moving one way or another, i.e. a binary system. Which is why your conclusion makes no sense.
I don't believe it's to do with MMR at all. If anything, as someone else commented, MMR is helping here by ensuring the players who play like that are matched with other players who can counter it.
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@BenZ0 said:
Meanwhile I am waiting for my games I decided to make a list of each rather unknown mechanic that I know of, maybe you also know some that you may wanna share? I would appreciate that!
Trapper: Iri stone addon doesnt reset a trap always after 30 sec if it has been disarmed or if someone stepped in. Each 30 sec a RANDOM bear trap activates. Which means 1 bear trap could stay disarmed for the entire game if you are unlucky.
Wraith: Shadow dance addon also increases your locker opening speed even though the addon doesnt has this in the description.
Billy: The scream that billy now does when you start sprinting (wasnt before the overheat mechanic) is a nerf for curv billys and it has way bigger impact on mindgaming than ppl realize. Very good survivors can therefore prepare for a curve if you try one even if you are behind a wall, you can also use this somehow as a bait if you are smart with it.
Nurse: Her blink attack is the ONLY one ability in dbd that doesnt count as a special attack (which it should). "Its not really unknown but still interesting".
Huntress: The lullaby stops every time the Huntress is in a chase which means she only has a TR, perks that give her Undetactable make then completely silent, you chase a survivor and lets say Tinkerer procs and you leave immediately the chase to get to the gen if it is close enough.
Myers: He can reach T3 4 times in a match if you stalked every survivor till their are fully red. There is no addon that can increase that.
Hag: The camera snap when you trigger a trap as a survivor was actually back then a bug but it was kept since it was a nice extra effect and kinda helpful in chases. (According to Mclean in one of his streams). This can also be used for mindgames but also to throw off a survivor in a chase.
Doctor: You can counter the shock blast of the doctor by going into a locker, you will not scream nor get any madness, this should be abit more known but for some barely any survivor uses that. Bonus: You dont have to shock every time on each pallet or window, most survivors predict that anyway, you can also just let go of the shock to not get slowed down as a "fake shock", most survivors will go for the vault very early trying to get over the window or pallet before the shock lands, use this as advantage and fake shock to get closer by not shocking, the shock slows you down way more than you realize.
Bubba: When you chainsaw around a corner you can instead of running with the camera forward as usual turn with your back (like a moonwalk) and therefore avoid the inconsistent corner hitboxes of object and reduce the chance of bumping at a loop dramaticly.
Freddy: The lullaby in Freddy's dreamworld will always be there, regardless if you are undetactable or not. (Tbh I have no idea what else, there is not much to Freddy xD)
Pig: You can hear the breath of the Pig pretty loud in her crouch mode but whenever she is normal her breath becomes very quiete, Pig is actually next to Legion the most silent Killer in terms of any sounds coming from her which makes her one of the best Mindgame killers since she is also small and silent just like Legion.
Clown: The gas spread is actually pretty well programmed and you can cover a larger area with 1 bottle by throwing a bottle on a higher position and letting it spread out in the air, for example most Clowns just throw down a bottle at the ground of a loop, however you should throw them on walls or trees next to them, same goes to jungle gyms.
Spirit: The Phasewalk sound used to be silent inside your TR of the husk, this whole thing got changed with her recent nerf. Once the Spirit is Phase walking the Husk immediately loses the TR and you hear now constantly the Phasing sound which is also now directional.
Legion: You can pick up survivors in FF just like Oni can with his Blood fury, you skip the Fatigue stun like that, imagine you have a slugged survivor somewhere, just run with FF to that guy if you want to pick him up, you are obviously faster in FF which saves you some time.
Plague: The hitbox of the vomit of Plague got changed. The amount of "hit box orbs" you shoot is reduced, which means if you make a stream from the left to the right you have bigger open spaces between the full vomit animation which is a nerf to Plague in a sense of you cannot now swing the camera that fast and hit easier everything, you have to be more accurate and move the camera more slowly, the chance that you miss a survivor even though your vomit physicly touches the model of the sruvivor is way bigger because of that.
Ghostface: Ghostface cannot be revealed inside not solid objects like corn or yamaoka bushes.
Demo: The killer instinct detection of activated Demo portals also goes through walls and slight elevations. Which means if you have a demo portal lets say on top of the hang man execution podeom in dead dawg saloon you still are getting survivors below it revealed.
Oni: Survivors dont drop blood orbs while you are in blood fury, many ppl still think they just become invisable, which is only true for already existing blood orbs, but injured survivors dont drop more orbs while you are in the blood fury.
Deathslinger: You can reel in survivors faster by holding S but also slow down the reel with W, you can kinda control the reeling better like that and drag survivors around objects like this, most deathslinger just hold s and sometimes survivors get stuck like that on objects which can give them a free chain break.
Pyramid: A tormented survivor will lose their tormented effect if he rescues a caged survivor. Bonus: You can rdy up your power while you fall down, you can like that do an insta hit right when the survivors gets his stagger.
Blight: You can increase the bump chance on inconsistent objects by doing a so called "shoulder bump" which means you flick the camera as far as you can to the left or right the moment you reach the object you want to bump on.
Twins: Victor can also block windows if you run too close just like a wraith. You can cuck many survivors like that, its abit inconsistent though but it is definitely a try worth in a few chases.
Trickster: Revival of edge album (Shatter knives) and cut through you single (Penetrating knives) are a really dumb combination, with 1 addon you want to hit on the ground or walls next to the target and with the other one you want to hit your target, they both counter each other out and should never be used together.
Nemesis: Zombies also get attracted to gens that explode because of perks like Surge, Erruption or Pain resonance.
Pinhead: You can also use the chain as a "scout" by just shooting randomly to a gen you want to check, you dont have to walk up like any other killer, make use of the camera while you control the chain and you have like that a bigger chance of detecting survivors.
Artist: A swarmed survivor will reset his "flapping" meter by vaulting or dropping a pallet, if you know he is about to finish the flapping and you see him running near a pallet, keep in mind he will only vault once he is done with it, not before. You can extend also therefore the swarm effect by forcing them to vault. Extra: If you used up 3 crows the cooldown of the power is exactly as long as it takes for a survivor to get rid of the swarm, you idealy want to hit them with 1 crow to swarm them and then hit them with a 3 crow shot to injure them afterwards.
I know this was a long post puh, sry about that but I feel like these are things that I see way too rarely, many ppl know about most of the Killers just half of it and waste a lot of potential with them which is imo just sad to see, I wanted to share some of my knowledge but also maybe collect some new if anyone also knows some nice stuff.
*edit: a few hours later I found another hacker, man I am just very lucky!
Nurse: Her blink attack is the ONLY one ability in dbd that doesnt count as a special attack (which it should).
Why should it count as a special, exactly?? It's not like she can get M1 attacks (in general) any other way, given that she's literally slower than survivors!! Forcing it to be "special" indicates she can rely on the normal use of her power and thus make use of a whole host of perks that trigger on this... which is simply not the case.
So, would love to hear a well thought out and considered argument for why her blink attack should be considered as a special, the same as other killers whose specials supplement their basic attacks.
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Why is this being made an MMR issue?
It seems to me like it's a boon/COH issue. Why should killers let a survivor get off the hook, only to be saved with BT, have DS, and then insta-heal with COH to start the cycle all over again.
Personally I think it's down to killers feeling that, given the handouts the survivors have, it's the only way they can play with any measure of success
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2825416#Comment_2825416
OP has a point, MMR is supposed to measure skill based on kills and escapes getting 4 kills with 4 hooks is quite the performance, actually you cant get much better than that, he should be awarded the big prize not some meager BP amount, its like winning the 100 meter in the olympics pulverizing Usain Bolt record and then getting handed a chocolate medal instead of a gold one.
Great performances should reward great BPs.
Points aren't awarded for skill. They're awarded for level of match participation. Hence they're not a metric to determine a player's ranking vs other players... but it's not based on performance vs other players!
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2825489#Comment_2825489
they said that they dont give a f if you do gens loop or not... you either escape or dont so you either win or don't thats what they said its complicated to take in chase time, heals unhooks gens
this is not even a good comparison its no video what they said this proves nothing? xd
"Statistics: "1/10 people are victims of crime"
"Misinterpretation: "9/10 people are criminals"
they said that they dont give a f if you do gens loop or not...
No they didn't
you either escape or dont
Correct. It's an objective measurable measure of success, exactly the thing needed to determine a player's ranking
so you either win or don't
This is subject to misinterpretation. It depends on what you define as a 'win'. You might define a win as a survivor wasting enough of the killer's time that the other 3 escape, and I would agree with this. But this cannot be quantifiably measured by a system, which is why it defines a win as escape/kill for survivor/killer respectively.
thats what they said its complicated to take in chase time, heals unhooks gens
Yes, I know this. What's your point?
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@FlameGNG said:
since chasing and loping isnt skills why do they give you bp for that?
this is one of my most skilled games yet, i got 5 hooks and 4 kills super optimal game i didnt waste time doing non skillful plays like mindgaming and looping but yet i was given 17k bp...
even tho i face camped they did get 1 unhook and one got away since i didnt wanna eat the DS so thats my fault for not being skilled but at the end of the day this was a very skilled game... Why reward high skilled games with no bp and bad non skilled plays like 8 hooks 0 kills with more?
for everyone saying im not skilled... THE DEVS has said that looping doing gens healing chasing isnt skills THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS is KILLS and ESCAPES from 3:40 https://youtu.be/Pw-7AiHhgkk
This is an example of a good skilled high MMR game: https://youtu.be/3Hq_jetcxTY This is what gives you MMR not chasing...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HX2JU8ZJ2SKD/sk-c3-a4rmbild-28685-29-li.jpg
This is an example of a bad non skilled game (i let the last survivor go)
this game was 8 hooks 3k (i forgot to screenshot the endgame but this was 24k BP)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D6UYZ2MHXVEB/sk-c3-a4rmbild-28687-29.png
THE DEVS has said that looping doing gens healing chasing isnt skills
No they didn't. That is what small-minded people interpreted from what was said, but it's not what they said.
Let me give you some more examples of how statements are easily misinterpreted or misrepresented to mean other than what was meant
General Public: "Black lives matter..."
Misinterpretation: "Only black lives matter..."
And another:
Statistics: "1/10 people are victims of crime"
Misinterpretation: "9/10 people are criminals"
I'm honestly embarrassed to be part of a community that so readily gets this wrong, and celebrates how wrong they are with no desire to actually pay attention and subscribe to what was actually said and meant.
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Back in the days of Call of Duty 2 (Xbox 360), I used to run league games and there was a definite split between the players; those with skills, and those with enthusiasm (that would be me).
One of the players suggested an idea... a tournament of Skill vs Strategy. He was convinced that, with the correct strategy, a lesser-skilled team could defeat a team made up of skilled (but otherwise uncoordinated) players.
So we arranged a 4v4 tourney. And the 'Strategy' team practised together, with some coaching from one of the clans (competitive squads).
One thing that emerged from that - which I was very impressed with - was that on literally every single map without exception:
- there were only every 4 ways to get from A to B, and
- there was literally nowhere you could 'camp' without being exposed from another angle
Our strategy was to quickly set ourselves up to man the chokepoints in such a way that the opposing team could not go past without entering the firing line of at least one of us, and we had also safe-guarded each other's weak-points too.
Strategy won every game!
The reason I bring it up is because those maps were incredibly well designed to all share those exact properties which were perfect for an 8-player game. Hats off to Infinity Ward for that!
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2823944#Comment_2823944
Not that witch-hunting is justified but if someone says something silly, they deserve to know.
Agreed... but who's to judge whether something is silly or not?
Case in point is the latest meme re: what Patrick mentioned about skill. From a developer perspective, what he said makes perfect sense (I made a whole post on this already so no need to rehash here). The problem is the community at large didn't understand what he said/meant because of the ambiguous nature of the term "skill" (from a developer perspective, it is the correct term) and thus presumed he said something dumb and meme-worthy. And there's literally no convincing people otherwise.
The ignorant masses are not in the position to determine whether someone who knows more about a subject than them said something silly when chances are it's the masses that have misunderstood. But again, convincing the masses of that is not going to happen because far too many sit very happily to the far-left of the Dunning-Kruger effect curve.
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Unfortunately, as the community has demonstrated time and time again, being a dev and making any comment on the game is an invitation for the ignorant majority to misinterpret what you're saying to fit their preconceived notions, and then throw all the toys out of the pram thereafter.
There's been at least two major examples that I can recall.
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@Posh_xp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2823888#Comment_2823888
Apparently there's a bug where she can't move at the start of the match
No. It's when she makes a grab, she gets frozen, forcing a DC (and thus accruing DC penalties). She's playable otherwise.
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You pretty much need video evidence...
@Mandy said:
First of all, nobody is banned on reports alone, evidence is always required. If you were not actively taking part in the cheating in the game - you have nothing to worry about. Video evidence is required in cases like this and that would show the actual situation. Our team of ACM's knows exactly what to look out for, and are used to dealing with things like this.
Our Easy Anti Cheat is also constantly being updated to remove cheats like this and people are banned (contrary to popular belief), it's unfortunately a never ending circle however, because people constantly update their cheats and bypass the system, then the EAC is updated again for that, and then over and over.
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Ah yes... the salty killer. Such common.
Unheard of, it is, for killer to give hatch or free escapes, etc.
Common it is for survivors to give free hooks for a killer they ran the whole game for him to at least get BBQ stacks. Survivors also never t-bag at the gates.
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@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2821589#Comment_2821589
Have you even tried stretched res on killer? or at all? Yes I know shadowborn and resolution are two different things, however, i don't know how to put it into words, stretched res on killer really does look much better, likewise on survivor. I would use stretched on both sides but considering i now have work to do on my main monitor, it'd be a chore changing one resolution to another after playing DBD, so i've gotten used to native.
Take a look at some of these vids of how stretched res benefits killers, and i dare say more than survivors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNDkw1l-H0
stretched res on a killer narrows the angle of getting flashlight blinded. situational? yeah. but you can say the same for survivors because not all tiles can be looked over. i clearly have to emphasize that survivors' advantage from stretched res is only in very, very few tiles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmpvjfwE43M
look at this blight, its as if he's not following the animation of looking down when injecting himself.
i'm not advocating for cheating in dbd, but coming from games like tf2 and csgo, more customizations in your config is almost never a bad thing.
stretched res on killer really does look much better, likewise on survivor
there it is 😁
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Does Survivor Gameplay require skill? No.
Doing gens requires no skill. Doing bones requires no skill. Doing the gate requires no skill.
In essence, nothing that's related to any part of the survivor's primary objects requires any skill at all.
However, they will need to demonstrate skill to delay the killer from achieving their objective, but that's not a requirement for survivors to do their own.
Conversely, Killers need skill to do their objectives.
To chase down a survivor requires more skill than the survivor has.
To aim projectiles requires skill.
To track survivors you can't see/hear requires skill using terrain knowledge and clues (scratches, blood, birds, etc)
To know when to chase a survivor, kick the gen, hook or slug, etc, requires skill (being as it can directly influence the outcome).
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@Aurelle said:
I've playing DBD most of the day and all I've been getting is Blight and Spirit. Please, I just want some variety. 🙁
Then you should have been leading the charge against all the killer nerfs and survivor buffs which forced killer mains to resort to the only killers that now stand a chance against the new meta.
Seriously, this outcome was entirely predictable to everyone except short-sighted individuals who couldn't see that if you hinder one side excessively, they'll just have to resort to stronger tools or other unfavourable tactics to "win".