Talmeer
Talmeer
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Well Trapper was for me always one of the best killers. I guess for the Clown, I was never really the player type. In some things you are just bad and that I was definitely with the Clown^^.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/683540#Comment_683540
I think that was Queen actually.
Yep.
Finally the words we had like to hear for so long. I just hope that the next Legion patch has also the Legion mains in mind. Not just the part of the survivors who have a high skill-level in writing nerf threads.
But Groot... You really like the killers, that are official considered as weak, right?
I mean... the Clown... really? ..... Really? O_O
I have play him also sometimes, as I still had play dbd and I had never got warm with him.
I would take Meyers everytime above the Clown, or also the Trapper would be a good choice^^.
It has something satisfying if the survivors run into your traps that all lay around loop spots - while the survivors had think that their holly loop spots would safe them *smiles sinister*.
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@Pokerface303 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/681819#Comment_681819
I know in the ptb you could definitely pull that trick off every time but (correct me if I'm wrong) if you had high enough sensitivity you could always hit the person trying to vault. With pallet stunning if the legion hit someone and then ran to someone else to hit them they didn't have enough time to wait for the pallet drop but mid chase when they used frenzy on you even without addons they had more than enough time to wait for the pallet drop then hit you. The only consent thing you could do was stand in the pallet then get hit and stun him.
Yea people will complain about anything it's the internet, but with legion it was basically unanimous by the community that he needed to be changed. There were different discussions on how that should happen but almost everyone wanted him to be changed.
With hatches I'm confused on what your saying. "where is no counterplay to it, once you got hitten." Well I mean yea, that's like saying there is no counter play after you get hit with a chainsaw. Because that's not where the counter play is, the counter play with those killers is that you have to avoid there power because it could down you. That's how old legion was, his power was able to down you but there was no way how to counter his power. With huntress or billy there is plenty of counter play to the hatches and chainsaw.
Also I never said legion was too strong and needed to be nerfed. Just because a killer has no counter play doesn't make them the best killer. Chases with legion still lasted a while because he had to hit people so many times and get stunned a lot. So he wasn't the best killer but his chases still had no counter play and it wasn't fun. Just because a killer isn't the best dosen't mean they don't need to be changed.
I agree that killers that require you to play different are a lot of fun. That's why I love huntress and nurse, they change up chases and make you play differently but they do it in a way that still has counterplay and is fair.
You are right... We are even not be able to take that as a serious argument, that a person has no counterplay after it got hitten by a hatchet from the huntress... (but we should take it better as a serious argument if we look what the nerf cryers have made with the Legion).
Still it was a argument of a nerf cryer.
The most people know that they have to avoid the hatchets, or the chainsaws as soon as the abilitie for it got activated, because the counterplay starts then and not after billy had ram a chainsaw into your back.
But the same was with the default Legion, aka a Legion without any addons attached. I know a lot of people that have play on this way, because for many people I at least know, the addons were to strong and have taken out the fun.
The fun for a player like me was, to do something viable in a short amount of time. Not to do the same in a feeled hour (I know it was not a hour, but feeled...), thanks to addons you have also mentioned.
You and me, we are pretty close in the way we see the Legion, I guess, but nobody should forget imo the weakness of the pure base Legion abilities.
You just seem not really to have made much experience with the Legion without the mentioned addons from you.
What the ptb matters, so I didn't know much about that time.
I have come shortly after the Legion ptb to dbd. I was "fixed on" (if we like to say so), by a YouTuber and his friends that I like to watch (they playing all kinds of games, not just dbd), but I still was not sure if I should buy the game, but then I had saw a Legion advertisment video and I had know... "This killer you would like to play, no matter if he is op, or if he is the most weaken character in the game" and well... Thats my story I have come to dbd.
But you can believe me that I had met survivors that were happy with the Legion in the days back than. They had thank me for the challenging games. I had even start to make screenshots from those chats, so that I can prove it (because I know how the internet is thinking - aka. screenshots or it didn't happen).
We will never understand each other. You seem to be on your hate train and what ever a Legion main says to you (aka. the person that knows the Legion most because they have spent the most time with it) you just play it down.
I have also see a ton of bad survivors in "the Legion is op lololol videos" and have sometimes wish that I encounter such stup... rhm... I mean different playing survivors, but in some videos its not even bad if someone shows not his full potential, because so we can see everything better.
Would you be able to learn better from a video where everyone do his thing in a matter of secounds, or would you be able to learn better from a video were the people act a bit slower, so that you can understand what happened better?
I would definitely learn better from the last type of video.
Also it is NOT healthy for the game when Legion mains left the game a whole type of playerbranch don't feel connected anymore to the game.
You can of course fly around with your opinion, but then you have to live with it, that Legion mains and also a part of the survivors will correct you.
You are right and I would be happy if a addon like Franks Mixtape had never seen the daylight. Sadly it had and I think that this addon and some others have hurt the Legion more (indirectly) as every nerf cryer could possible do.
But don't forgett that little pallet game, that you only needed to do against the old Legion. Also even I had play still with a variety of killers, I can't see much difference between the "skills" for other killers and the pre patch Legion, as long as we talk from the Legion without addons. With addons it was ridiculous.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/682507#Comment_682507
Because there was no counterplay if the legion wanted. What the guy above wrote is hogwash. Rational people wanted a legion CHANGE, not nerf.
Well if it was so, can you explain why some people have do counterplay and while we already question things... Why the Legion was not number 1 in the kill rate statistic?
It is ok, if you were not able to do it. Not everyone was good enough for it, like not everyone is able to loop, or some people always missing a skill check by a gen, but that doesn't mean, that those things are not possible.
And if you like to have videos that proves it... They are on YouTube. Those videos would have been also impossible to made, if there would have been no counterplay.
Don't blame the game because you were not able to do it and also don't be ashamed by it. Not everyone can be good in everything.
Thats just how it is. We all have our weaknesses.
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@MiniPixels said:
Unfortunately the dev team can only work on so many things at once, so while i don't think he needs a complete rework like freddy, I do think it will take them a bit to get to him, I would expect by the end of next year at the latest.
And that I find not really good preperated.
-They have clearley not listen to the wishes of the Legion mains. (otherwise you can't explain the patch notes of the Legion patch)
-They have also not listen to the warnings from the Legion mains and also sometimes survivors that this patch will be a desaster.
Imo... by this 2 big red flags on the horizon, to a time where they were working on the Legion patch, they should have hold a little time back for the case that their upcoming patch would make things worse.
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@Pokerface303 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/680948#Comment_680948
The issue wasn't that he had a m2 that could down people because that's fine. The issue was in how his m2 worked to down people. With old legion there was literally nothing you could do to counter his power. When he was in frenzy he was very fast so you couldn't out run him, he could fast vault windows so those were useless, and he could fast vault pallets so those were usless. The only thing you could do was sit at a pallet and get hit the first time then drop that pallet to stun him and get him out of his power but at that point you have to waste a health state and a pallet so it wasn't really viable. When you look at nurse, billy, huntress, etc these killers have powers that potentially were even better than the old legion power but the reason people weren't complaining about those powers is because they were fair and had counter play. I really like legion, I think he has one of the coolest designs and concepts but his old power did need a change. I really hope he gets buffed soon, his power is weak and isn't unique at all.
You are right and wrong with your posting imo, but that I am also for sure sometimes.
You are right that the Legion was very fast and that the counterplay was not always given, but that was either because the Legion had use op addons, or the survivor has put himself in a terrible position and a killer should not be nerfed, because some survivor did something wrong.
A default Legion, you could indeed counter with pallets. Mostly on 2 ways. Either you jump over the pallet and then back (as long as the Legion had frenzy running). If you have done that in the right time, the Legion was not be able to hit you with his frenzy hits. There was a small time window, were the Legion could not hit his victim. I have one time search on YouTube for a survivor and also direct found an tutorial video for that, if you are interested (they are really not hard to find).
And you could simpley pallet stun a Legion. If the Legion got pallet stunned, she had lost all her power. If the Legion had something like Franks Mixtape attached it was nearly impossible to do that, because then the Legion had even the time to stay for the pallet and wait for the survivor, so that he puts it down.
On the other hand, if you had no addon running that changes the frenzy time, you was sometimes pressed to it, to still hunt the survivor even with the danger of a palletstun over your head (no pun intended), because the frenzy time of the Legion was so short in the times back then.
Also the people have and still will probably complain about every killer in the future. You just need to search in this forum and I bet you will find "nerf billy and huntress" threads.
I can remember very well on some nerf threads because of the Huntress hatchets.
Her flyling hatchets (or how ever they are called in english), are also a special abilitie of a killer, where is no counterplay to it, once you got hitten.
You can for sure try to avoid, getting hitten, but once you are - you are down. By the Legion you could at least heal yourself, or get a heal by a friendly survivor.
And all that, you could also see in the statistics. While bhvr was working on the Legion patch, they showed also a "kill rate" statistic of every killer and the Legion was one of the last ones (don't know how good she performes today, since bhvr had taken the fun out the Legion). If I remember correctly, only the Clown was worse in this statistic as the Legion.
Would be there no counterplay and would have been the Legion so op, the Legion would have been not one of the worst killers - she would have instead fight with the best killers for place 1 of the best killrate.
So at the end, the Legion had counterplay. It just had take a different skill as only running around in loops and I have speak with survivors also about that and read also sometimes some of them in this or the steamforums and some of them miss that pressure and that different counterplay the Legion has force them to do.
Of course not everyone has this opinion but as said before, while we as players can either try to see every opinion or decide to see just oure side... A game should ->always<- try to get every playertype on board.
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@Aztreonam78 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/680897#Comment_680897
This was VERY unfun mechanic, survivors were too helpless before, Legion just was able to wait untill gauge is filled and down.
-The pre patch Legion was not the only killer who could do that. Infact, there are killers in the current game who can down you with their m2 attack/s.
-What for the one is unfun, is for a other player fun. If we really start to go down this road, we should delete every killer abilitie and also his main abilitie - to kill survivors.
Some people like to have viable m2 attacks and some people like to be pressured by it.
-If you tell me that a survivor had no chance against a basic Legion without those op addons attached, then you make me chuckle.
-Btt. I am honestly surprised how long the devs need to make a announcement for a Legion rework, or undone of the rework. Every other companie I know would already have done it.
Look at the devs from Frostpunk at example: The people have riot there that the game had no endless mode... After a few weeks where the riot has not stop, the devs announced that they will implement some sort of endless mode and then the riot has stop and everybody is happy.
The devs from dbd seem to have something against making everybody happy. I just can shrug my shoulders to it - its their money what they lost because they doing nothing what this topic matters.
Personally, when I would be able to choose between the normal money dbd brings in and the normal money dbd brings in + a happy Legion community, I would choose the last option.
I don't know how many money dbd makes each month, but it would only be logical that it would be more with a happy Legion community, where Legion players come back to the game after they left it because of the Legion patch and with happy Legion dlc buyers, who don't feel cheated because of the advertisment video of the Legion that shows a totally different Legion as what she is today.
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@Sziosis said:
Your entitled to your own opinion, but if you want to hear my point of view...
Old Legion was slightly broken, but honestly needed a bit of a nerf because once a Legion set their eyes on someone, you couldn't stop them from getting them down unless they lose interest. The changes they made were drastic, but it did handle the problem. Saying Legion has no power is underrating their potential. With no prior set up, if Legion finds four people in one area, He can effectively injure them all faster than any other killer. With Killer Instinct active, it also means hiding won't do any good for anyone who hasn't been hit yet. I loved the original idea of Legion, hitting someone multiple times to down them, but the new Legion is how most everyone played them in the first place. Quickly injuring a few people, end Frenzy and down a survivor with a basic attack. Frenzy is a great power if you know how to use it. It may feel underwhelming, but Legion is kind of supposed to emulate what a real person is capable of thus being able to vault pallets like normal survivors.
Saying Legion has no power is undermining what they are capable of, but most importantly, the question you should ask is: Is Legion fun to play with? I think so, but to each their own.
Correct me if I am wrong here, but besides that I was also a pre patch Legion main, I have also play other killers (Meyers, Trapper, Huntress, Nurse, Clown mostly) and...
In a 1n1 you had always die against a killer, if he loses not the interested in you.
The thing that safes most of the time survivors for being hooked up in an 1n1, is that their teammates make actual something different as looping.
Aka. gens as example. That doesn't mean that the killer would not get you, if he would go down the tunnel alley... He just has found more important targets with discordance (or similar perks like that raven perk, which name I don't know on english) as example.
The old Legion was a good design, but nothing comes on this world without having its faults and in the case of the Legion was it imo 2 exploits, op addons and a weak basekit in parts.
The exploits and addons has everybody see, even without playing the Legion.
The basekit issuses the Legion had, you have only see if you have play in higher ranks without those op addons.
The pre patch Legion had a really short "action window". Basicly you had a few secounds in which you could use frenzy and use it either for crossing around the map, or actual attacking survivors.
This was not perfect but it had make a ton of fun and for sure more for me, as the Legion today.
Imo, the frenzytime of the Legion of today is to long. So long that it starts getting boring (reminds me a bit on my feelings as I had make a testrun with Franks Mixtape, before I decided to abonden this addon for forever - to pre patch times) and you are to slow in frenzy.
People that run today away for the Legion with just running straight forward, would never be able to do that with the pre patch Legion.
With the pre patch Legion you needed to play that little vaulting-pallet game to survive the frenzy time (was possible by a Legion without addons, not with Franks Mixtape attached... most of the time).
This little vault pallet game has today no reason anymore and I have spoken with some survivor mains about that and they all have found it boring.
Imo, the only people that like the Legion of today a either anyways the "m1 kille typ" and are happy when every killer stays in their comfort zone, or the guys that have hate the Legion.
The killers and survivors who have like the Legion before, were and maybe are also today, the more action oriented type of player.
Imo, its nothing wrong in prefering m1 killers, or the pre patch Legion, but as a game, dbd should try to get everyone on board. Every decision that is different to that is in my eyes unhealthy for the game.
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I don't believe that a m1 penalty could work with the Legion. No matter if she gots implemented because of balance or "skill" reasons.
Mostly because of the audience the Legion speaks to is imo build around people that like to have that "stabby stabby" feeling.
And that should not be a surprise. Bhvr has advertised the Legion as such a killer.
The people see there in the videos a killer who is fast moving and fast stabbing and then they buy the dlc... In the moment, just to getting upset then about bhvr and dbd, because the advertisement videos are currently a lie, how we all know.
I have play a lot with the pre patch Legion without addons and in my opinion you don't needed for this Legion more or less skill, as for all the other killers.
The named addons from me, were in my opinion so bad, because they have taken out the weaknesses of the Legion.
The Legion without addons had only a short frenzy duration, but was still viable in this time (well.. you have mostly hit a survivor 1-2 times then the frenzy was over, in some veeery rar cases 3 times if the survivor for you had just bad luck, or was a potato).
Imo, even to this day, bhvr don't gets it, that they have speak with the Legion to a totally new audience, that could have lead to a complete new group of players (like in some mmo's some people would never play a warrior, but they for sure play that random mmo because they can fire up there their lightning bolds as some sort of magic class).
With this new audience, nothing would work that punishs you 3.000 times x for just doing your "job" (aka. killing survs) and that means... His/hers abilities needed to be limited, to not let the Legion become op. Something that was given with the short frenzy time and got erased by the named addons.
Not important if we talk about skill reasons, or balance reasons, -with all that in mind I don't get it why they have nerf the Legion on the way they did.*
The Legion today need less skill, as the Legion before (without addons) and is totally boring to play imo.
Edit:* Besides of course hysterical survivor complainmens. If only they had asked the experts in this matter - aka. the Legion mains - then they would not have make such a ... (I don't like to speak that word out so ... ***) patch.
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I would undone the Legion patch, but fix the exploits before and delete Franks Mixtape and the green and purple knife addon.
With that, the Legion would not only be balanced for the most parts of the game (besides red ranks), but it would also be a lot sophisticated as the Legion before and the Legion today.
There was a reason, why no streamer has shown the "boring" side, or the "opness" of the Legion without having Franks Mixtape and/or one of the knifes in slot - because without those crap addons, the Legion was in parts totally different to what she was known for.
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What are those masks?
Don't answer, I am already happy with the default masks of the Legion :).
For a undone of the rework, or a rework that takes some changes back I would possible pay - depending on what gets changed and if I got the feeling with the patch, that bhvr is getting trust worthy again.
They have lost a lot of trust from me in the moment they have upload this patch. It's ok to have something like the Legion patch in mind and talk about it by some beers and play with it in your head... but it is not ok to upload it.
A lot of people, inclusive me, ->expect<-, that if they pay for content with real life money, that this content not get ruined. That it stays in some way for as long as the game is active, as what it was advertised.
That said, of course the payed content can be getting outdated with far better survivor perks, or killers (in case of dbd), or single abilities can be nerfed over time, how it is always the case in multiplayer games, but not in the way how it was done by bhvr.
For players like me, they really need to not only making the damage undone they have make on the product what they have sell to us, players like me need also get their trust in bhvr back again (from which is making the Legion viable again the first and also major step for doing this - another step would be, to do for the next months nothing like the Legion patch again. Not to the Legion, not to another killer, not to anything what players have pay for).
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@Maelstrom10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/665019#Comment_665019
Most of these i completely agree with. totem counter specifically i disagree with as a better suggestion was made a while back where the totems have notches in their skulls indicating how many are left meaning you have to find a dull/hex totem in order to know : thus prompting actual searching, and no way to completely keep track.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/665006#Comment_665006
What about the legion patch? im curious as to your thoughts as i personally don't think he should regain his lethality, but he certainly needs adjustment. pig also needs some work.
Personally I think the Legion should be back to the old state, but with the exploits fixed and 3 addons deleted (Franks Mixtape and 2 knife addons [the green and purple one*]).
All the intimidating and terrifying videos you may have see about the Legion were made with those op addons. The Legion was without those addons much weaker. In some situations even weaker as the Legion today. Still the fun with the old Legion is unreached for me.
Also the lethal abilitie of the Legion without the named addons, was nothing survivors had to fear. Without those addons you were usually able to hit a survivor 1-2 times while you are in frenzy and that was not enough in the days back then, to down a survivor with (mainly because the frenzy time was so short and because the sprint boost survivors get after every hit).
It would bring the fun for Legion mains back and for survivors would nothing change. Either they still like the challenge, or they will still dislike the Legion. So, no damage there.
What the Pig matters... Shortly before the Legion patch I had plan to buy the Pig, but then the Legion patch happened and I have stop playing the game, but should bhvr gives me finally a reason to come back, I would also look again at the Pig... if she is still viable.
Edit: *Those 2 addons deleted would have been already a exploit fix, without harming the base abilities of the Legion. Just saying bhvr.
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-The Legion patch gets undone, inclusive the Pig nerf.
-That the Trapper gets 1 or 2 more traps at the beginning of a match and maybe a reduced trap laying time.
What the rest of the game matters, so I would be either happy with it then, or at least I could arrange me with it (depending about what we are talking).
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@UlvenDagoth said:
I think they are in a bad spot myself. I used to love playing Legion back in the day, and never even knew about the exploit till someone explained why they got nerfed. I played a bit of them lately, and other than the Legion hate that seems to be a meme these days, I noticed they are really really not good. The movement speed hit, plus the fact that your m2 is so very risky for not alot of reward. If you miss, you lose your whole power then stare at your hands in disgust/ tiredness/ sadness at how useless this power is. Am I getting the wrong feeling here or are The Legion is a very bad spot right now? If they are in a bad spot, then what do you think would help?
I would also like to have the old one back... But without the exploits (actually, the 2 exploits) and without the op addons.
I know that the pre patch Legion without those addons was sometimes weak against survivors that have know what they are doing, but she was so much fun. Even losing was more entertaining for me as having a win-series with another killer and since I had mostly play without addons, I don't care for them anyways.
I still wait for the day where the devs finally also think on us Legion mains. Then I can finally log into dbd again, for a different reason then checking if my dlcs are still connected to my game or not.
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I don't get it why some people are so upset about dodging.
Dodging is a thing you could already see in the early days of the internet in nearly every game where teams got matched against each other and it prefents people from dcing in matches.
That is actually a good thing, since dcing people always cost time and depending on the game you are playing, also the match - not to mention that the most game communitys dislike dcers anyways.
Besides that, I don't see that survivors play "luck based". The most survivors running the same perks and I don't think that the most survivors would change their perks, just because they knowing that they will face in the next match killer X.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661825#Comment_661825
Nurse is being adjusted. I hope to a more reasonable level. I personally just think all killers should be on Freddys or Hillbillys level.
I am not sure. I was never a great freddy player (I know also the freddy rework only from reading here in this forums). Hillbilly had feel sometimes a bit weak imo, if he faces certain situations and/or groups.
That's why I have think more on Spirit.
Personally btw. I hope that they nerf Spirit and Nurse not too much as long as they have not buff all the others killers.
At the end, surivors have to face frustrating situations, but killers also.
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@ad19970 said:
The devs really need to bring at least most of the killers to very similar level. Personally, I think Freddy is in the sweet spot for killer balance. I didn't think Spirit needs nerfing, but I'm starting to think more and more that she could use just a small nerf, so that survivors have a bit more counterplay to her.
Soo.... With other words you would like to see more Nurses? :).
I say that, bceause that would be the consequence.
That's 1 reason, why a buff of the other killers would be better. You would nobody "force" to shift over to the next best killer.
Variety should be the goal as you have already write.
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@Objectively_speaking said:
Most people don't like to lose, Spirt, Nurse, and Billy are the ones who accomplish a win/apply pressure. This is similar to asking why survivors run exhaustion perks , or add-ons. It increases the likelihood you win.
Tl:DR people don't like losing. They play to win/play viable killers.
It's not always only for the win.
It's also sometimes because nobody (I guess) like to feel as he would have no chance in those ranks, or against specific survivor tactic, groups etc.
The only way out would be to buff the other killers on Spirit level imo, so that everybody can finaly choose the killer he/she likes, to play a match with (without having the feeling on the same time to give yourself a disadvantage because you choosed not the right killer).
And that should be possible. I have until today not heard 1 good reason why not every killer should be on this level. Especially since the most killers cost real life money.
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That's the reason why I sometimes say that the devs have "encourage the dcers".
No matter if they have make the Legion changes because they wanted to do them, or because of the dcers. The dcers have claim it as their "win" and that was something you could already see before, if you have watch them.
The problem is, if you encourage toxic people, they spread their venom rapidly so fast they can and your ultimate weapon as a admin is just your abilitie to ban. This abilitie loses its "force" imo if too many people are there to ban, because then those people get more and more support by the rest of the community.
So... after my opinion it would have been whiser, if they had not up the patch (at least not to the time where the nerf threads were up) and to ban the loudest people that say by themself that they dc (inclusive streamers - especially them since they are great to make an example of them for this behavior), before they could "infect" too many people with their toxicity.
Now the doors to hell are open and the people dc over and over again, for every reason.
I have seen it coming. That is everything I can say to this mess.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/657854#Comment_657854
Maybe that's even good that I'm not a mod XD
3/4 of community would be banned lmao
Depending on which community you are, you also would need to write every banned person a email, or write a special thread about the ban in a special forum why he/she got banned.
That I can tell you from my experience... So maybe that could hold you back if you have in mind, that you have to write 100x emails, or 100x threads, if you ban 100x people, so that each person you have banned know why he/she got banned ;) :).
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I have play... I bet 70% of my matches as killer (maybe a bit more).
Mostly I have just play for fun, so I had only a small amount of possible toxicity in my endgame chat, but sometimes toxicity had of course also by me come up.
And then I have just remind the survivor/s, that he/they had on me a friendly killer and that I could have play differently (aka. that I could have camp the area around the hook, or tunnel everyone down, or using frenzy and deep wounds more often [I played mostly pre patch Legion, so aka. I have play the Legion to a time where those abilities were stronger as today and a possible threat for surivors]).
That was most times enough, so that they have start thinking. In the small cases where that was not the case, I have either just leave (and with it end) the lobby, or lol at him, or in 1 case aggressively talk him down, but in the last case I was already in a bad mood before I started the match, so that was not my usual behavior.
But not important what had happend in my endgame chat, I was never in a bad mood because of it. On the other hand, I have a pretty thick skin. After more as a decade in the internet, it just grows thicker and thicker :).
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@StupidButTru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/655410#Comment_655410
Looping isn't an exploit
Looping isn't an exploit. You are right... If we talk about the normal looping, we all know from the game. Not if we talk about specific looping spots on specific maps that are be considered as being bugged, far as I have read it and a few times see it in the game.
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@StupidButTru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/655394#Comment_655394
What exploit is there now?
Shortly after I have left the game because of the Legion patch, I have read about 2 survivor perk exploits. Those guys got not banned, far as I have read it and to my time as I had play the game, existed also survivor exploits (like loop exploits as example on specific maps and specific loop spots on it).
Would there be a equal treatment for everyone, everyone would have been banned who exploits, but in fact the only big ban wave I have heard of had hit the exploiting Legion's and the rest of the Legion's that have not exploit have got that freaking Legion patch thrown for their feet (guess as thanks from bhvr because we have all the time fair play? That was not necessary bhvr, but I guess you guys know that by now).
But don't get me wrong.
I don't write this lines to do here a survivor vs. killer thing. I just write it, so that some survivors maybe can see now, how many luck they had in the past and there is absolut no reason for some arguments.
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@StupidButTru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/655386#Comment_655386
Nurse didn't recieve a huge nerf, and she's still considered top tier (Omega Nurse Oops), Freddy didn't even get nerfed all they did was flip his ability that made him see survivors outside his terror radius rather than inside which gave him natural bbq and chili. Then of course are we gonna ignore Moonwalking Legion? Are we really doing this?
You can pretty much.
Not every killer exploits, but still... even with that truth in mind, every Legion got punished.
No matter how his playstyle was.
Imagine for a secound, survivors would be treated on the same way and get a rework with a penaltie after every action of them...
This forum would be full of complaining threads and I mean really full... Page 1 of the general forums would be nothing more like "why did you do this to us?" threads.
You guys can be lucky, because bhvr was in the past forgiving towards survivors. I would have been not. A exploiter is a exploiter. No matter if they are a killer, or a survivor and they all would be deserve to be perma banned.
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@POTUS45 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/654157#Comment_654157
every time I play single player games I end up bored
If story is important for you, then try out the Mass Effect Trilogy, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Wasteland 2, Fallout: New Vegas, the Witcher series and I guess also Cyberpunk 2077 will be a blast.
If you like to "build" your own "perfect" X game, then look out for games with mod support. Thanks to mods, I have build my perfect fantasy game with Skyrim and I still trying the same with Fallout 4 (of course here with the post-apocalypthic theme).
Cities: Skylines, Hearts of Iron 4 and Stellaris are great 4x games, if that is something you could be interested in.
The Long Dark is a nice single player survival game. Also Conan: Exiles (I know its a multiplayer game, but you can play it also as singleplayer game).
State of Decay is a great game if you are in this "zombies and end of the world" thing.
Have I forget something?
Ah, yes...
The Total War: Warhammer games (1 and 2) are great strategy games and Mortal Kombat is imo the best beat em up.
Maybe, some of those games could be something for you^^. I love all of those games :).
Ah... And Frostpunk is also a great "survival-city builder" or how ever we like to call that game.
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@Kycer said:
I guess she is one of the most hated killers because she is one of the very few killers that actually has the advantage in a 1v1 situation, in a 4v1 game...
Imo to many people forget about the 3 other guys and also see it at as their right, that all the fun in a match has to be for them (not even for the 3 other survivors and certainly not for the killer) and of course, they always have to win.
Too many people seem to forget that this is a horror game and not a meme game where you runing around in circles with a bright colored jacket.
That is just my answer to all the "this killer is too strong" threads.
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As said before, you are not bannable, but I guess that guys are bannable.
Can't imagine that to tell someone, that he should kill himself is the behavior, bhvr likes to see in its game.
It's ok to be frustrated. A insult is also ok imo, if someone feels really the urge to do it, but everything has its borders.
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@sailormars said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/652158#Comment_652158
I've played Legion at high ranks and I've payed against him. Never seen any Legion struggle unless they keep making mistakes.
Your arguments sound like you didn't care at all about the fun for Legion mains.
Many Legion mains like to have fun. We don't do it as job.
Punishments make no fun for the player that are suffering under it. Especially if they come up by every opportunity the Legion offers (you like to use your abilite?-stun, you miss a hit?-stun, you like to vault?-na, na, na->only slower as the pre patch Legion, you like to be fast?-na, na, na->only slower as the pre patch Legion, you like to down someone with your special abilitie?-how could you have this idea!, you like to see deep wound progress?-of course not!, 1 special abilitie works only outside of tr-check! = that covers almost 95%+ of the Legion gameplay if not more).
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@Purr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650757#Comment_650757
and what about the ones who DC against all the other killers too? ive had people DC against clown ffs A CLOWN with lvl 1 clown perks and no addons... or the vids of people DCing against a killer with NO ADDONS AND NO PERKS AT ALL? not slugging or camping not a nurse or spirit no ruin... so what exactly is the excuss then?
Didn't you know it?
Clown is the top killer and even worse then every other killer could be :).
They won't get the upper hand on the dcing guys until they start to radical ban everyone who is dcing, since they have encourage the dcing guys in the past.
Also it couldn't be wrong to make a dev thread and post every month there, how many people got banned for dcing (names are not necessary), to avoid the "they do nothing" argument.
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@sailormars said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/651068#Comment_651068
Yuo but he should also be fun for the ones playing against him. I mean you can keep denying that a killer who almost runs at sprint burst speed and can ignore pallets and windows doesn't get free hits, but that's more on you.
I don't denie it, I just say that this is no argument, because the most experienced killers know anyways when they have to hit someone and when not, not important about which killer we talk. It's not worth mentioning it, when everybody has this abilitie, somehow.
And sorry... As first, a character, or perk should make fun for the people who spent the most time with it.
2 points to it:
-You are maybe annoyed if you meet the Legion for 1 match, but in the next match you might encounter Meyers, Nurse, Hag, or whatever.
The Legion player plays in his next match still with the Legion.
-Not every player is or was annoyed by the Legion. Neither killer, nor on the survivor site.
Every game has aspects, characters, abilities and so on, that will be annoyence for a part of the playerbase of that game. In exchange, other people enjoy it and be annoyed by other parts of a game.
Thats how it usually is.
I am also annoyed by certain aspects and did you see from me a "nerf survivor perk/whatever" thread, or any hard trying nerf postings towards survivors?
No?
Why?
Answer: Because I know that other people enjoy it and I also have to adapt to it.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650446#Comment_650446
I share the same opinion as you. A lot of people complain about the fatigue time, missing hit penalty and vault speed. I agree with these people 100% BUT
Legion still has that problem, because it doesn't matter how many changes you make to his power, if it isn't lethal, then he is simply an m1 killer just like the others. I'm not saying that it is bad from a competitive perspective, but from a fun perspective he has lost his identity of a fast stabbing killer, agile that hits everyone in his way. If survivors swarm around him, he deals with them.
This is my way to see legion. He needed buffs, not nerfs like he got. He needed a fix to those two things and the "exploit" that if you spammed lunge you would go further while in frenzy. Solutions: Make deep wounds not reduce within a certain distance(not terror radius based), completely change frank's mixtape and make it so that missing a hit while in feral frenzy wastes 25% of the bar. Simple as that. Some buffs on the power and we are good.
I also think that the old Legion could have use buffs and I was honestly surprised as I had first time read the patch notes.
Imo, what the Legion would need now, would move back to the old state, so that she would have a good foundation and from there on we could move forward with buffs.
Sadly, this neutral point of view is not given in dbd and we can only hope that the devs one day listen to the things how they really are.
Btw. @sailormars
Have you ever thought that the Legion should also make fun for the people that spent the most time with the Legion? Aka. the Legion mains?
If I read crap like "he deserves that", or "a free hit" I can only facepalm.
Edit: I have a bit cut this posting. I don't like to annoy someone and have just let the core message stay.
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@Divinitye9 said:
Can we just go ahead and say that Legion sucks? At least be happy the normal movement speed got boosted, otherwise a Hag speed after a 4 second stun would be even worse.
We can stop with this, when finally common sense has arrived and the Legion got reworked, or the rework got undone, so that she makes fun again.
When that is... It lays not in our hands.
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@Th3Nightmare said:
I do not see the logic, where Legion receives a stun of 4 seconds at any time, if it chains 1 survivor and stops Feral Frenzy ... is this balanced? While the nurse to receive a stun of 4 seconds must throw 5 tps. ######### BEHAVIOUR, is this really balanced?
Balanced legion? Please ... it's the most useless thing that has ever existed in Dead by daylight. Why doesn't Behavior admit that Legion is in a very bad state?
It is so simple that:
That his stun be less as many blows to the survivors with Feral Frenzy. The more HITS (chains) LESS the Stun will be. Easy, Behavior?
- 1 Hit with Feral Frenzy and stop the abilite: 4 seconds of stun
- 2 Hit with Feral Frenzy and stop the abilite: 3 seconds of stun
- 3 Hit with Feral Frenzy and stop the abilite: 2 seconds of stun
- 4 Hit with Feral Frenzy and stop the abilite: 1 seconds of stun
Making Legion more fun and not BORED ... a 4-second stun does NOTHING FUN to play it. The devs should have realized according to their statistics that the killer should be the least played ... Why? It's a mystery....
Although we ask you to make some small changes, the devs will make what they think.
To be honest:
-To hit multiple survivors against a experienced survivor group is anyways very hard, because they usually stay far away from each other. No matter if we speak about the frenzy duration of the pre patch Legion, or the new one - you usually get not multiple survivors because they stay so far away from each other (besides the early game where they didn't know that they are up against a Legion).
So your buff, would be a minor buff-fix and should be done asap, if they plan not to undone the changes, or to do a bigger rework (again) - something we can't never know for sure.
-I fear that comparing the Legion to other killers rises only the awareness of the devs towards the other killers in a bad way.
-I guess the devs hoped to be finished with the Legion, after the Legion patch. That could have worked... If they had not only listen to a minority under the survivor's that had call out for a nerf over and over again.
Now they have to face the consequences of this action, because now a big part of the Legion mains and also survivor's that where ok with the Legion rise their opinion (or have done it already).
I am curious how long their own pride holds them back to admit that something has terrible run wrong with this patch and how long it will take to see finaly a second Legion patch announced.
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You have some good ideas and also in the right direction.
... But well, I am in love with the first concept of the Legion that has gone live and was active until the Legion patch and so I think that bhvr had everything made right with this version, besides that they have not delete the exploits before the knoweldge of how to do them has spread out and they should have take a better look at the addons. Then the op addons had maybe never annoy so many people.
Still I like the idea to make frenzy faster and reduce the stuns and what is around it. Even I am prefer "the other way", I still think that you have a great idea.
The only problem I see is, that survivors are later be able to see where the Legion is. That sounds like a nice idea first, but I ask me if that is in high ranks still necessary. I guess, I would need to see first how that plays out on an ptb. It's really hard for me to answer.
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@Oshi said:
As we all see devs is fine with lowest tier "POTATO" Legion after those nerf. Legion should be much more faster while in Frenzy. All this topics about him, how he weak, how easily he can be countered and still devs looks like "lalala, whatha you sayin? lalala, i am not hear you!". Pathetic. Sadly, but i am done with this game until they buff Legion.
Looks like devs not playing their game. Why Nurse not nerfed btw? 😹
Also nice new "kid" chapter. "Hype" is real.
They said, they will look at the addons of the Legion. Just without a date. Also 1 answer of a dev could be read as they would also consider to do more, but that is maybe just my hope, that had lead me to that assumption.
If they really just look to the addons, -it will be no help at all, if they make the addons then not so op, as it Franks Mixtape was before the Legion patch and if they do that... We will see all the nerf threads again.
I just hope that they getting one day brave enough to undone the changes they have done on the abilities of the Legion and until then, I wait like you for this day, without playing this game because it would make me not the same amount of fun, it has make for me in the past.
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A "Earthworm" from the Tremor movies. They could break from the earth up and swallow a survivor in one pice :) ...and they have tentacle like toungs. Also a plus for reasons that shall not be named in this forums xD.
Edit: Wiki entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremors_(film)
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I would be more exited about the Legion rework that might someday happen in the future. I know that's a combo breaker, but I look always more on the balance and bug line, as on new content.
That said, after that rework I will maybe look deeper at the dlc's in the time inbetween and then I would be more interested into new killers and survivors as into new perks.
Not necessarly this one, since I am not a stranger things fan (I don't even know this series), but I bet, the one or other dlc will also pass until the "holly day :)" is finally arrived.
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@HawkAyeTheNoo said:
Campers are the biggest cry babies in the game. You see most on here crying/moaning everyday.
They camp meaning theyre not making a lot of points or pipping up. They then cry saying ranking is to hard or we need double bp everyweek cause they dont make enough bp in game. They're stupid.
Sometimes these campers will eventually swallow a brave pill and chase a survivor but get destroyed, they then cry survivors are op, nerf all perks. No theyre not, youve been standing by a hook not learning/practicing chasing or gen pressuring. Again, they're stupid.
Give me a good killer any day of the week over a bad one. You might get destroyed but you'll have fun and make points.
Usually I don't see many killers here crying about bps, pips, ranks, besides maybe the discussions about swf's and that not every killer is being capable of doing well in the red ranks by his major playerbase.
The last called point is imo valid, but the others... On the other hand I don't read much nerf threads if they are not about my favorite killer. It's anyways always the same what survivor's say in those threads, no matter about which nerf threads we speak.
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If bhvr really like that ppl stay after a free weekend, or a new dlc, they should imo buff solo survivors and 13, maybe in a few weeks (or whenever the dlc comes out) 14 killers, so that their major playerbase has a chance with them at red ranks.
Imo, the people leave not really because of the toxicity - that we find in every game (more or less), but they leaving because they either feeling helpless, or they have first thought that dbd is might a good game for them, but then they needed to realize that many things in dbd are the "same".
Feeled 90% oft he survivors use the same counterplay and feeled 90% of the killers are the same (looking at you m1 killers - survivors counter them mostly always with the same tactics and they kill mostly always with the same tactic).
Variety would be healthy for dbd, on the long run. People certainly would not rush in dbd, because the devs code new killer archtypes, counterplays for survivors and objectives in, but I am more as sure, that under this conditions more people would stay in dbd after a free weekend and similar events as usual.
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@TheOnlyPolar475 said:
Hi Community,
I've been playing Dead by Daylight for awhile but haven't really interacted with the community until this post. I really enjoy this game and wanted to engage with other members as well! Apologies in advance if this belongs in another category but I wanted to bring up this topic and GD seemed like a solid place to start.
As a player I wanted to share my opinion on 'camping' Killer - What they are and what they are not. This comes from playing several games where my fellow survivors accuse the Killer of camping in matches as well as when I've played as a Killer.
A solid definition of camping is when a player finds a strategic position in a match and proceeds to wait for players to appear - pretty straightforward there. In DBD, Killers are often accused of this after hooking a player. While there are Killers that do this, what I commonly see is survivors performing immature rescues that result in the Killer never leaving the immediate area.
Here are a few scenarios I've experienced that can identify when a killer is camping (these are only from my experiences):
- After hooking a player, the Killer won't leave the area for an extended period of time. Think like 20-30 seconds of staying in the hooked area with minimal, or no, movement (and that's being generous).
- The Killer will frequently return to the hooked survivor location.
- The Killer will move a short distance and 'hide' in an area where they can easily see, swing in and attack survivors attempting to save the hooked player.
Without a doubt this is frustrating to experience and I'm sure there are players out there who do this. When this happens, it definitely creates a poor experience for the survivor(s) and I understand the frustration. As a survivor, you feel like the game is immediately turned against you. Again, those are just from my experiences.
So, now let me get into what camping IS NOT because a lot of survivors make this accusation incorrectly:
- If a survivor immediately goes for the save after a player is hooked and the killer defends, that is not camping. That's poor strategy on the survivor.
- If a survivor is in the immediate hooked area and the killer sees them while hooking another player, that is not camping. That's bad luck and, again, a bad way to save a player.
- If the Killer infrequently passes through the area of a hooked player, that is not camping. Now this can be debated a bit and I think there's a discussion that can happen about how often is too often. But just because a player is hooked does not mean the Killer has to immediately leave. They can (and should) search the hooked area and then move on.
Just because a player is hooked does not mean the Killer needs to immediately leave the area and pretend that there may not be survivors lurking close by. Instead, survivors should coordinate an effort, make a distraction for the Killer or lean on a perk to help them rescue that player.
The point is to acknowledge that, yes, some Killers camp and it's clearly noticeable. However my experiences tell me that it's actually the survivors who create this false camping accusation due to poor cooperation in unhooking a player.
tl;dr - survivors need to think about how they rescue as it can lead to incorrect camping accusations towards the killer
Thanks for reading and I'd like to hear what opinions and experiences other players have related to this!
That is a nice posting, because it trys to look at the situation from every possible angle - at least I assume.
When I remember on my games, it had happened sometimes that survivors have already try to safe the guy on the hook while I had hung him up for just a second. Or they try to hide near the hook but in a way that I have seen it*.
In such cases, you can't move away as killer. Would be stupid if you do.
It makes only sense for a killer to move away from the hook, if he sees no other survivor in a near distance to it.
Edit:*A classic situation is a hiding and crouching survivor near a window. Sometimes those guys stay up for a secound to get a better view, I guess... In those moments you can't go away (without at least chasing the waiting survivor around), because it either means that this guy will try to unhook the guy on the hook, or that he trys to get your attention so that a other survivor can unhook the guy on the hook.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/638830#Comment_638830
Legion doesn't have to be reworked, legion must be buffed. How? Make the frenzie longer, faster, and make the ment longer
Imo, for me was always the fun while playing the Legion, to have a short time window in that you could do your actions.
A longer frenzy would work against that for me, even I have to admit that everything could help the Legion right now. A faster frenzy on the other hand, how you also mentioned it would be taken with open arms :).
-... But btt... I would undone the Legion patch and fix the exploits without a heavy impact on the Legion base abilities. Also I would delete Frank Mixtape and the green and purple knife addon, to prefent possible nerf threads.
-Besides that I would up a wiki in DBD with all the informations around the game. Perks, Killers, Survivors...
For new players and after every new chapter I would let a tutorial pop up in dbd that informs the players about common survivor and killer tactics and how to counter them and also I would make it so, that the tutorial wouldn't go away until the users had click their way through it to the last page.
Yes, some will still not read it, but at least... After that we could say "you should have read the tutorial before you start complaining"^^.
-I would make that the rank only resets after 3 months.
-I would rework the matchmaking, so that red ranks can't come together with all down of that. That would be a slight nerf with the hope to trap 4x swf's there.
-Trapper would start now with 3 traps and change the set up timer for the traps down to 2 secounds.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/637504#Comment_637504
You can say old legion had counter play all you want but the counter play was easily countered.
Yeah and this is why the Legion had dominated the red ranks... Oh wait... She hasen't!
Some addons were op. But in return... Who ever had a problem with the Legion without addons... Serious, that guys should stop being lazy and watch at least some tutorial videos.
Edit: The killrate of the Legion was even one of the worst killrates of all killers. Far as I remember. For some months, the devs had show a official statistic to that. Only 1 or 2 other killers had a killrate that was even worse as the one of the Legion, if I remember me correctly.
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@prayer_survivor said:
@Marcus. And you can see all type of threads complaining about anything about survivors. Even complaining about gen tapping.
Well... A killer got nerfed, then the killers start to complain about some survivor abilites.
Then a survivor thing get nerfed and the survivors start to complain about killer abilities.
The only way out imo, of this cycle would be to buff every killer on the actual spirit level.
Then survivors could also ask for stronger perks, if they not already got them on the way to this goal.
Note: With that I don't like to say that spirit is op. Infact I believe she is in her perfect spot right now, after all I have read about her from Spirit mains and survivors.
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@Catbucket said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/637806#Comment_637806
Pig is probably getting buffed in the future, so not sure where you are coming from with that.
That can happen, but I have only read one dev message to the last pig nerfs and what they plan with her and his answer has let everything open.
So... It's possible that they buff her, but also that they nerf her... again. Far as I know.
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Nurse maybe. We can't say that for sure yet. Then Spirit or Hillbilly + some small Pig nerfs that seem to fly aways a bit under the radar^^.
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@ASAPTurtle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/637287#Comment_637287
Legion was changed because he was killing the game's health. If he was the same up to now the majority of the playerbase would be cut into half and no one enjoys playing a dead game and by far he is the worst killer to be released due to that.
And no, Nurse is not being looked at. Her add-ons are being looked at, and her base power is slightly being changed.
Yeah and we don't know yet what this exactly means.
It can be something good, or something bad, but that is then something the Nurse mains have to judge.
What the Legion matters, so was that not my impression. I know about the nerf threads and I know that some streamers have whine crocodile tears, but in my endgame chat I had a completely different picture and also other Legion mains and some survivors tell different storys.
In fact, I believe the Legion was good for the health of dbd for various reasons.
That said... The Legion. Not the Legion with the op addons and exploits. Just the killer and the killer design itself.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/637345#Comment_637345
Ah yes, actual infinites, double pallets, the wide loops on autohaven, multiple sprint bursts during chases etc, that definitely was so much fun. Let's throw balance out the window just so we can have this level of fun back.
I wouldn't mind, if I can have in return my old Legion back. But I need to say... The most time I have spent in dbd was just for fun.
I had never the goal "to stay forever at red rank 1", or that "every surv. has to die".
I was happy when I could do a bit pressure and chase with the freedom, the old frenzy has give their players.
When I can get that in return, I would even have nothing against a "automatic survive the match perk" for survivors^^.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/637287#Comment_637287
I literally see no thread, maybe just one asking for spirit/billy to be nerfed, legion had no counter play in chase, he needed a change (and yes, I did play old legion) and as for nurse her add ons are currently OP (although I don’t mind) and honestly, nurse herself is a bit too strong(still don’t mind) stop acting like certain changes aren’t needed.
Not saying the other guy is right but both of you are over-dramatizing things.
-Legion had counter if the Legion had no op addons running. You can watch tutorial videos on YouTube, or also... I bet you would also find some tutorials here in the forums. I have write some by myself. The Legion changes were not needed on the way they have been implemented. It has more the character of a overreaction, as the character of "making balance".
-About Nurse I don't like to say yet much, because the changes are not out yet. Also no informations about the Nurse changes, far as I have read it (since the Legion patch are the forums my only information source, because I stopped playing after the patch. I like to have fun with my favorite killer and I don't like to feel punished just for playing what I like. So I wait for a Legion patch that shows a bit common sense).
-There are already a ton of Spirit and Hillbilly nerf threads out there. You just need to go some pages back. It is always the same scheme:
The surviviors complain about X killers. Then 1 killer got be announced to be nerfed and the survivors go silent for a while. After the nerf got implemented, survivors start their old complaining threads again. I bet with you, that after the nurse patch, a ton of Spirit and maybe Hillbillly threads will come up again (should the Nurse patch really be a nerf. Personally I believe he will be a nerf, but nobody can't say it for sure yet, far as I know).
TL:DR We can talk about all the "nerf survivor" threads, but don't act as would have been every killer nerf justified. That shows only a one sided view point.
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A simple army knife or Scorpion's spear chain, because "GET OVER HERE!!!" :)*
If someone doesn't know that weapon, just go on YouTube and search with "Scorpion Get over here compilation" :P
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For the Legion:
Sepultura - Bloody roots
Would fit from the music and lyrics imo.