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Reverse Bear Traps kill people trying to escape through the Hatch. :P
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Assuming this is true, that would fall under "Exploit", which is bannable.
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Clown
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Bumparoonie, Unca Scrooge!
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Meh? I won't speak for anyone else, but teabagging means little to me. If they teabag at the exit gates, either they get away and I move on or (rarely) that brief moment of teabagging will actually screw them over, in which case I hook them.
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This list is trash. As far as I'm aware, they're all the same tier as Doctor.
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It...breaks?Boss said:@TAG said:
Boss said:I don't understand how the third one works.
Cause normally Totems are gone after cleansing.
If I am understanding it correctly, cleansing a Totem would not disable the associated Hex perk; it would only make whoever cleansed the Totem immune to that Hex perk's effects.
No i understood that.
But what would happen to the Totem?
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If I am understanding it correctly, cleansing a Totem would not disable the associated Hex perk; it would only make whoever cleansed the Totem immune to that Hex perk's effects.Boss said:I don't understand how the third one works.
Cause normally Totems are gone after cleansing.
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My only request is for Hex perks to not light a totem until a certain condition specific to each perk is met (conditions that would basically ensure you get some use out of the perks while not keeping them out of Survivors' reach for too long). Then once that condition is met, a dull Totem is lit, and the Hex perk can be disabled by cleansing it. Destroying all the totems before one is lit would mean that once the condition is met, the Hex perk automatically becomes disabled because there is no totem left to be lit.
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I think the ideal scenario for Killers should be that Killers should be disadvantaged if they go in with no add-ons, but they shouldn't be forced to pick specific add-ons in order to not feel disadvantaged (such as Trapper and the Sack add-ons or Doctor and the Electrode add-ons).
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For Doctor, either Mouldy Electrode or Maple Knight.
And of course, for Pig, Rules Set No. 2.
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My point isn't that I want the box auras to be taken away; it's that I don't like that there's an inconsistency between how Blindness interacts with I'm pretty sure every other aura and how it interacts with Jigsaw auras specifically. Rules Set No. 2 shutting off the Jigsaw auras isn't actually fixing the inconsistency; it's just repackaging it as a different effect. If they found a way to hypothetically replace the box auras with something that would still allow Survivors to find the boxes just as reliably, then you wouldn't have to worry about the Blindness inconsistency.OrionsFury4789 said:
There are add ons that remove the jigsaw boxes aura already on the pig, as for huntress lullaby and the box skill checks I never have noticed TBH because the totems go quick , if anything that perk needs a buff to not notify you of the hex being there until it's already in effect because someone can start a gen and then immediately go cleanse it before it even has a chanceTAG said:Hex: Huntress Lullaby not working with Jigsaw Box Skill Checks is inconsistent and should certainly be looked at, but I'd also kinda like to turn the attention a bit towards Jigsaw Boxes auras and Blindness.
I COULD be mistaken, but I am pretty sure that the Jigsaw Box aura is the only Survivor aura unaffected by Blindness. Now, the reason for that is obvious: taking away a Survivor's ability to see the boxes permanently with Face Mask would be ridiculous as hell for Survivors, especially Solo Survivors. (not to mention it would make Face Mask a much stronger Pig add-on than the Ultra Rare Rules Set No. 2). Even Hex: The Third Seal would be problematic for them, even if it would be a lot easier to remove the Totem to cure the Blindness.
That being said, I am still bothered by the inconsistency of it. It's not such a big issue that I'd be mad if this weren't changed or anything, but I would personally like to see SOME solution to this inconsistency (just like the lack of interaction between Hex: Huntress Lullaby and Jigsaw Box Skill Check). I wouldn't advocate for the Boxes to simply be affected by Blindness because that just seems like a bad idea. But is there something that could be done to the Jigsaw Boxes that could somehow remove this inconsistency without making it easier/harder to find the Jigsaw Boxes (like using something else instead of a straight-up Aura to identify the Boxes' locations)?
As for Huntress Lullaby, I had an idea sometime back that would remedy that issue: basically, I think Hex perks should not be applied to totems immediately and instead be applied to them after certain conditions are met (for example, for Huntress Lullaby, a Dull Totem would not be lit until you have acquired two tokens with it).
Interesting ideas. I previously had the idea of turning off box auras completely in exchange for much more time on the clock as a replacement for RSN2; I was just never sure if the downside on it was sufficient (especially if you no longer have to wait for gens to start the clock).Nickenzie said:Here's my solution:
Regardless of the skill check, any debuff can be applied to them such as Unnerving Presence, Lullaby, and etc.
-Jigsaw Boxes will be affected by lullaby and Unnerving Presence to keep things consistent.
Regardless of the the action you are performing, all speed penalties should affect that action.
-Jigsaw Boxes will be affected by Dying Light, Thanatophobia, and etc.
-Same thing with totems, exit gates, chests, unhooking, attempting to unhook yourself, and etc.
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Blindness:
-The current version of Rules Set NO.2 should be baseline.
-The new version of Rules Set NO.2 will now immediately activate the trap, remove the Jigsaw Boxes' auras whenever the trap is activated BUT at the cost of adding a minute to the timer.
-Face Mask will now make it harder to concentrate and will decrease the success zones for the Jigsaw Box.
-Jigsaw Boxes auras will now be affected by Blindness BUT due to the lore of Jigsaw, his victims must have a chance to win. Therefore, blinded survivors will have their RBT timer slown down by 50%.
That being said, Face Mask and Rules Set No. 2 would be too similar for my liking, especially with one at an Uncommon and one at an Ultra Rare. IMO, Blindness would be irrelevant to a Survivor with an RBT except for losing the box auras (hence why current Face Mask sucks in my opinion), so in the end, you have two add-ons at vastly different rarities that both shut off box auras and raise the timer by a hefty amount (up to 3:30 for RSN2 and up to a gargantuan 5 minutes for Face Mask), and the only meaningful difference between them beyond the difference in time is that the Ultra Rare makes the RBTs not need to wait for a gen to pop. I think the end result is that either Face Mask becomes REALLY good at wasting time and RSN2 becomes busted, or neither perk becomes good because the clock was raised high enough such that they may as well be infinity.
Maybe I'm being a bit overly cautious, but I worry that even something like that would be a bit too much. I don't think 8 meters is much at all to work with, so it would be pretty close to just losing the auras completely and could be a big issue with Tampered Timer.Mat_Sella said:@Kaalaxi said:
I think you should only be able to see boxes you've come across.you know what, you're right.it should be like the Map item and the aura is shown if you're within 8 meters of the box. 16 meters with Open-Handed. The Macabre search skill checks should be harder at base too.
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@Eninya said:
Huntress' Lullaby ought to work on it. It's fair that Blindness doesn't, BUT...I would like to see an addon that limits the proximity in which survivors can see box auras. Rules Set No. 2 should reduce your ability to see boxes to 12-16 meters around you once your timer starts. This still leaves a chunk of Amanda's addons to be pure trash, but it would at least make Rules Set No. 2 a lot more worthy of being Ultra Rare...
Whether Third Seal should work is hard to say. I would rather say no and see the perk buffed (EG: Not a Hex and retaining the need to hit each survivor; or remaining a Hex and automatically applying to everyone at the start with no warning.)
The main issue with Blindness is that it's generally quite weak unless it's coming from Third Seal. And then Third Seal is only very effective once you've hit at least 3 different survivors. The Pig's pressure from her traps is relatively balanced, and locking people out from seeing boxes at all wouldn't just make her OP: it would straight-up break her because finding boxes can be a bit hard. Coupling blindness to her boxes would make the 5-6 boxes or/and Tampered Timer busted as hell with even the sliiiightest bit of bad RNG on the survivor's part.
Yeah, like I said earlier, I would not advocate for Jigsaw Box auras to be affected by Blindness because that would be overkill. I just want something changed so Blindness isn't "Shuts off Auras for Survivors...except for Jigsaw Boxes because that's OP." Basically, I don't want another "Coulrophobia doesn't work with Snap Out of It for balance reasons" scenario (something that they did eventually get around to solving without necessarily just letting Coulrophobia affect Snap Out of It). Or, I guess to be more relevant to the Pig, I don't want another "Hex: Huntress Lullaby screws around with Skill Checks...except for Jigsaw Box Skill Checks." The one-off exception just bothers me a decent bit. With Lullaby, it's probably just as easy as letting it affect Jigsaw Boxes. With Face Mask + Hex: The Third Seal, it's more complicated because the easiest solution (letting them affect Jigsaw Boxes) is probably the worst one.
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1) The reason they did the adjustments for Snap-Out-Of-It and declared Mending to not be affected by perks that care about healing was because they wanted to fix up the inconsistencies of some perks/add-ons affecting some conditions that technically count as healing and some not (example: A Nurse's Calling affeecting Snap Out of It but Coulrophobia not doing so). Now, the healing action has a clear definition: An action that will increase a player's Health State. Since neither Snap-Out-Of-It nor Mending actually do that (even if flavorfully, mending is healing), they are unaffected by those perks.Raptorrotas said:As the whole snapping-out-of-it balance adjustment and mendings immunity to any healing penalty has shown, the devs would probably only release a statement that its intended lullaby isnt affecting those skillchecks.
Not seeing those boxes would probably be too strong. If that was implemented theyd probably nerf the timer to 4minutes or so.
This mentality contradicts the (lack of) interaction between Hex: Huntress Lullaby and Jigsaw Boxes. Jigsaw Box Skill Checks are no different from other Skill Checks; Hex: Huntress Lullaby not working with this Skill Checks is flat-out inconsistent.
2) I agree that just taking away the Box auras flat-out would be too strong, which is why I said I am not advocating for that. What I would like to see is some sort of change somewhere that would remove this inconsistency while still allowing Survivors to find boxes in a reasonable time.
I agree about her boxes being affected by Lullaby but not about being affected by Blindless. Jigsaw Boxes are not like Generators that have giant antennae sticking up that allow players to see them from far away. They don't stick up into the sky like Gens, they can be tucked away, and it's not uncommon for them to be inside a shack or something. I'm all for making RSN2 base kit, but I think having a way to permanently shut off Jigsaw Box auras is a step too far.Blueberry said:It's true Pig does need a lot of adjustments.
Her boxes should be affected by Lullaby and Blindness. It's not that hard to open your eyes and find the box. That blindness affecting the boxes being stronger than Rule Set #2 is only the case because Rule Set #2 is trash and should've just been in her base kit.
Her addons affecting skill checks on boxes are also just so bad. Those addons should make the skillchecks go from the opposite direction and make the skill checks MUCH smaller.
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Your mentality in this thread seems to be "I'm not listening I'm right you're wrong," so it seems difficult to have a discussion about this topic because you refuse to consider what others are saying.PubStar87 said:You're very unpleasant Ryuhi
Thanks for making me feel super unwelcome here
Typical DBD fanbase, so nice to interact with -
All I want for Huntress Lullaby is for the inconsistency of it not working with Jigsaw Boxes to be addressed SOMEHOW.
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@Aari_Piggy66 said:
TAG said:Amanda's Letter seems good to me.
I'm not sure how I feel about Rules Set No. 2. By itself, it seems like it would be a worse Tampered Timer, and with Tampered Timer, it could be too strong. Either the gens come to a screeching halt for too long because doing them would probably sentence the RBT victim to death, or they don't and the Survivor is basically dead (if the Pig decides to harrass the RBT person), especially with the current RSN2 hypothetically being base kit.
My personal idea for Amanda's Secret is basically just to make it the Amanda equivalent of Freddy's Black Box add-on (Obsession starts with an RBT).
I am probably biased, but I personally don't like the Skill Check add-ons and think they should all be scrapped. I GUESS your ideas are better than what we currently have.
I personally don't think Jigsaw's Sketch needs to be buffed at all, but if you were to try and modify it like that, I would add a downside to it. Perhaps I'd cut the timer on Annotated Plan in half and give it to Sketch, so both Sketch and Annotated Plan would add 15 seconds to the clock, and using both together would still result in 30 seconds to the clock but with 6 boxes and an extra RBT.
I like the Amanda style black box idea.
It help save the whole pressure of getting a trap on somebody before a generator pops.I think spreading the time penalty between the sketch and the annotated planes would make the annotated plans seem a lot less of a useless waste of blood points so I'm down for it.
Thanks for the feedback didn't actually expect anyone to really respond to him
I guess my thoughts on the Jigsaw Box add-on stem from the idea that I think Sketch is fine as-is and Annotated Plan, while usable, can probably be safely buffed. The way I see it, adding an extra box is enough of an upside that I am okay playing with Annotated Plan even though it adds 30 seconds to the clock. Occasionally I even get RBT kills off the Annotated Plan. That being said, I don't think 30 seconds is necessary for a Rare add-on. With that in mind, my preferred idea would be to have three Jigsaw Box add-ons that each add an extra Jigsaw Box: one at Uncommon that adds 30 seconds to the RBT, one at Rare that adds only 15 seconds, and one at Very Rare that doesn't add any time to the clock (part of this stemmed from my desire to scrap the three Skill Check add-ons completely).
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Amanda's Letter seems good to me.
I'm not sure how I feel about Rules Set No. 2. By itself, it seems like it would be a worse Tampered Timer, and with Tampered Timer, it could be too strong. Either the gens come to a screeching halt for too long because doing them would probably sentence the RBT victim to death, or they don't and the Survivor is basically dead (if the Pig decides to harrass the RBT person), especially with the current RSN2 hypothetically being base kit.
My personal idea for Amanda's Secret is basically just to make it the Amanda equivalent of Freddy's Black Box add-on (Obsession starts with an RBT).
I am probably biased, but I personally don't like the Skill Check add-ons and think they should all be scrapped. I GUESS your ideas are better than what we currently have.
I personally don't think Jigsaw's Sketch needs to be buffed at all, but if you were to try and modify it like that, I would add a downside to it. Perhaps I'd cut the timer on Annotated Plan in half and give it to Sketch, so both Sketch and Annotated Plan would add 15 seconds to the clock, and using both together would still result in 30 seconds to the clock but with 6 boxes and an extra RBT. -
When you say "constantly target you," do you mean tunneling or repeatedly get into games with you and specifically go after only you in all of those games?
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Sometimes. If I feel like the DCer singlehandedly cost them the game (or if it looks like the person may have actually lost connection instead of ragequit), I'll likely give the last Survivor the Hatch. If I feel like they've been doing well without the person who ragequit (or if the person DCs when they're dead on hook anyways), I'll probably just try to kill them all as normal.
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@powerbats said:
It'll never happen on Playstation because sony doesn't want to give people an option even though more people might get one. The same is true for Nintendo, they don't want to share and only want people using their system.Yes on Sony, but Nintendo has increasingly been embracing crossplay recently. These days, it's Sony that's been the holdout.
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Probably either Doctor or Clown. Huntress is pretty cool too.
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Balance aside, I'd just call it "Sudden Death".
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I can agree with that.Swiftblade131 said:@TAG said:
I care a bit less about crossplay and more about cross-platform accounts. The moment they let me carry over my progress to PC, I am throwing the PS4 version in the garbage (figuratively speaking).How about
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I care a bit less about crossplay and more about cross-platform accounts. The moment they let me carry over my progress to PC, I am throwing the PS4 version in the garbage (figuratively speaking).
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I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.Tsulan said:
My point exactly.PhantomMask20763 said:@Tsulan is right, there is no violence! What's going to happen when little Timmy shows his parents the trailer for the game and asks them to buy it for him, they won't see any of the violence so they'll say, sure little Timmy, you can have this game that seems violent but it really isn't because the trailer did not have violence! Then we, the community have to deal with kids that get triggered over losing. Wait-!!!
We already have this. But then it will be 10 times worse.
On top of that we'll get angry parents. Because little timmy is crying and we really shouldn't attack kids. -
The exact words on their part were "When you get a bear trap on your head, the game already knows where the key is." They were just saying that the game actually chooses a box to put the key in and doesn't just give Survivors X% chance of success whenever they search a box.Dolphin9192 said:@TAG said:
I am pretty sure I know which stream you are talking about, and I am fairly sure that is not what was said.
Really I could have sworn it was, but maybe I am mistaken. I might check it out when I get a chance.
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I am pretty sure I know which stream you are talking about, and I am fairly sure that is not what was said.Dolphin9192 said:@AntiJelly said:
@Eveline said:
If I'm unlucky and find the correct untrapping device last I'm dead?Once the Pig applies the RBT, a random box is immediately selected to contain the key. One box has 100% chance, the other boxes have 0%. It's kinda like luck, but different.
It was said in a dev stream that the boxes were chosen before you even load into the game, but the rest of what you said is correct.
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His face was edited out of the console perks, FWIW.FayeZahara said:@RSB said:
@FayeZahara said:
i hope as long as sony isn't a bum about it. Can't wait to see next roadmap cause hoping cross progression and cross play is part of it.Crossplay and cross progression aren't a valid option because of one, simple aspect - Bill. Bill is an exclusive for Steam, so other platforms can't get him.
So that extra content has nothing to do with progression and cross play. Plus if that was a necessity to have bill sure they could work something out. Not like he hasn't been put on other consoles before in his own games. His face on perks is allowed on other consoles too. He is just incentive really to play on the pc version tis all.
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@thesuicidefox said:
I can't hear you OVER ALL THIS MARK MAKER 2 AWESOMENESS.I prefer Hotel Mark myself.
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I want to believe that they can add the shark from Jaws.
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No. It functions like this:JanTheMan said:
Isn't it a 25%, 33%, 50% chance based on each box searched? Or am I missing something on how her traps work?Watery said:It’s more like probability- it depends how many boxes there is, and how many you’ve done. It is luck based, but there’s a certain math to it. Say you’ve got five boxes- 1/5 of those boxes has got a key. The numerator, being boxes searched, and the denominator is the number of boxes total. You’ve got 20% chance on your first one, 40% on your next one (2/5), 60% on your third one (3/5), and an 80% on your fourth one (4/5), and a 100% succession rate on your final fifth one (5/5). This type of math could be applied to any of the boxes the pig has, it’s just a matter of how long the box takes to search, and how much time you’ve got. It’s mostly luck based, but addons won’t affect this by any means.AntiJelly said:@Eveline said:
If I'm unlucky and find the correct untrapping device last I'm dead?Once the Pig applies the RBT, a random box is immediately selected to contain the key. One box has 100% chance, the other boxes have 0%. It's kinda like luck, but different.
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I don't think you even need to time anything. One just needs to ask themselves "What do I generally do when I play Survivor?"Rex_Huin said:Meh... I stand by my point.
Time how long a game is and how much time you spent on a gen.
What were you doing the other 90% of the time? Lots of stuff. Even if its just sneaking or hiding.
When you really think about it survivors do a lot of different stuff. Actually far more than killers. Killers should be the ones asking for more variety since all they do is chase, hook and repeat their power ad infinitum.
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I don't play Survivor, so obviously I'm gonna try to make a Survivor perk. :P
Trap Door
Survivor Perk
Whenever you exit a locker, place a trap inside it. The auras of trapped lockers are revealed to all Survivors in white. The next time the Killer opens that locker, if a Survivor is not hiding inside, the Killer become blinded for X/Y/Z seconds (I don't know good numbers to put here).
This effect applies to the last A/B/C (unlimited?) lockers you exit. After a Killer triggers a trapped locker, all lockers become disarmed again. -
Tampered Timer reduces the clock from 2:30 to 2:00Eveline said:Last game I instantly went from one device to another and found the correct one last. Didn't make it. Maybe because of some add-ons?
Bag of Gears/Crate of Gears increases the time it takes to search a box
Jigsaw's Sketch adds an extra box
Those are the ones that will most contribute to increasing the chances of a trap kill. I'd put Annotated Plan, but that actually RAISES the timer to 3 minutes. -
It's not a myth. For a good team of Survivors, most of the stuff you mentioned is unnecessary. If a team wants to get out as quickly and efficiently as possible, it mostly boils down to do the gens and leave, with the occasional totem cleanse or hook save + heal.Rex_Huin said:All I'm saying is its a myth that there is not plenty for survivors to do.
Optional stuff is not all totally separate from the games outcome.
Cleansing a dull totem may be a waste of time or may stop NOED from appearing. That's the chance you take. Not every game is a gen rush.
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If it's in the last box, you are unlucky, but you are not dead. Under typical circumstances, you have ample time to search all four boxes. It's only going to potentially mess you up if the Pig is actually trying to get trap kills.
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More mandatory objectives? What those are could be up to the devs. Find a thing, do something to the killer, build a thing, etc.Rex_Huin said:@TAG said:
Rex_Huin said:@TAG said:
Because most of those are not mandatory. Only the mandatory ones actually truly matter, and because they are so few, some would argue it leads to stale/repetitive gameplay.
I think mandatory things will always be stale. Pick up this so you can fix that is what it boils down to>
Not necessarily. If you have enough variety, it could certainly alleviate the staleness to a decent degree.
What though?
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Always? No. The most efficient players will, at most, cleanse Ruin.Rex_Huin said:@Orion said:
They don't want optional objectives; they want mandatory objectives. Because they're unwilling to do the ones that already exist, since they're not mandatory.But they do do the optional objectives. You always see people looking in chests or cleansing dull totems and sometimes sabo.
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Not necessarily. If you have enough variety, it could certainly alleviate the staleness to a decent degree.Rex_Huin said:@TAG said:
Because most of those are not mandatory. Only the mandatory ones actually truly matter, and because they are so few, some would argue it leads to stale/repetitive gameplay.I think mandatory things will always be stale. Pick up this so you can fix that is what it boils down to>
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Reverse Bear Trap kill.
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Because most of those are not mandatory. Only the mandatory ones actually truly matter, and because they are so few, some would argue it leads to stale/repetitive gameplay.
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@DexyIV said:
The only really good survivor obsession perk is DS, and it's broken. Killers have some good options when it comes to this perk too (Rancor, STBFL, Remember Me), but half the time it isn't worth the perk slot because there are usually better options.
It's balanced IMO, but some of the perks could use some adjusting, mostly one in particular. The mechanic is fine otherwise.I would say Save The Best For Last is also very good. Probably the second best obsession perk after DS and the best one for Killer.
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The Pig. I really enjoy trying to live the dream of RBT kills.
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@TheMidnightRidr said:
@TAG said:
-Left Behind is the oldest perk to have never shown up more than once on the Shrine of Secrets
I do not think Left Behind ever will show up because even though it is teachable on PC, on console it is another general perk everybody has available at the start.
To be fair, the one time Left Behind actually appeared on the Shrine of Secrets was after the game was released on console.
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@pemberley said:
TAG said:Some minor tidbits regarding the Shrine of Secrets:
-Surveillance is the oldest perk to have never shown up on the Shrine of Secrets
-Dance With Me Is the oldest Survivor Perk to have never shown up on the Shrine of Secrets
-Left Behind is the oldest perk to have never shown up more than once on the Shrine of Secrets
-Barbecue and Chili is the oldest Killer perk to have never shown up more than once on the Shrine of Secrets
I know for a fact Surveillance and Dance with Me have shown up multiple times. I have never seen bbq (although I got it now so it doesn’t matter) and I am almost positive basic perks like Left Behind never show up because they’re already available to everyone and not tied to a specific character.
I am basing my information on the Shrine of Secrets archive. According to it, neither Surveillance nor Dance With Me have ever shown up.
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Shrines_of_Secrets_Archive
Also, Left Behind is a Bill perk in the PC version.
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@NoxiousOnnyyxx said:
BoxingRouge said:Why not do gens and get more objective points and maybe you’ll pull the killer away from the hatch?
Because most matches that I've been in, the killer never leaves....I'm not gonna waste my time.
That sounds like a good thing. It means you can actually just do the gens and get out through the gate.
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Some minor tidbits regarding the Shrine of Secrets:
-Surveillance is the oldest perk to have never shown up on the Shrine of Secrets
-Dance With Me Is the oldest Survivor Perk to have never shown up on the Shrine of Secrets
-Left Behind is the oldest perk to have never shown up more than once on the Shrine of Secrets
-Barbecue and Chili is the oldest Killer perk to have never shown up more than once on the Shrine of Secrets -
Ironically enough, he would not be able to use Dying Light. :Ptt_ivi_99 said:What would his perks be? I havent played Dying Light that's why Im asking -
There already is. I've done it by accident numerous times and thought for the longest time it was a bug. As said above, it's set to the touchpad by default.