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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878293#Comment_878293
All of these killers have downsides to doing this... except Freddy.
The only one that is potentially relevant is Ghostface because the Survivor can potentially knock then out of Stealth. With Wraith and Pig, the Survivor has nothing.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878307#Comment_878307
Yeah but a survivor being chased by a pig crouched isn't that hard to evade and it takes some time for her to uncrouch to attack. A survivor can stand around and try to force her to attack them instead while the person mends over time if they have to. Same for wraith. Ghostface can literally be broken out and has the most counterplay of all.
These killers have to actually REALLY TRY to force this situation. Freddy just gets it as an added benefit.
Either way I'm of the opinion BT needs to be distance based.
How hard does one have to try to just get close to a Deep Wound Survivor while having no TR and then just reverting to normal to attack them when they HAVE to stop to mend? If someone body blocks, congrats, the mending person still has to run away again and let the Killer turn off their TR again to let DW go down again because the Killer can easily unclock/crouch/Ghostface just M1s the first instance that person has to mend.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878293#Comment_878293
If Pig follows crouched she's slower and easier to body block. Wraith has 2 seconds of uncloaking and this gives you time to body block or bait out his cloak. Ghostface can literally be broken out of night shroud if he doesn't attack.
Freddy can attack the unhooked as they're unhooking, hit the unhooked, and then down the unhooker without having to worry about the unhooked getting away because of oblivious.
This is just about making it so BT can't save the unhooked person.
Person is unhooked -> BT is active -> M1 the unhooked person -> Unhooked person is now in Deep Wound -> turn off your TR -> Unhooked person's mend timer is now depleting and they HAVE to either stop and mend to be M1'd again or just go down due to Deep Wound.
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There is no inconsistency as far as Borrowed Time is concerned. It only works within the Killer's Terror Radius. All the Stealth Killers can shut off their TR one way or another, and being in the Dream World gives the Survivor Oblivious, which makes it count as though they are not in the Killer's TR.
@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878168#Comment_878168
I would say the difference is relevant because all of those killers have counter play with BT. Pig can't control her dash perfectly and can't attack instantly when someone unhooks. Ghostface can't attack at all. Myers has to be in tier 1. Wraith has 2 seconds before he can attack. All of them have counter play. They can't trade a hook for a hook if they need to. Freddy can get 2 hooks for one in this situation just by playing like a normal camper despite Borrowed Time.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878235#Comment_878235
Except he can hit the survivor before they unhook, putting them to sleep. OR he can old Legion the unhooked by hitting them and letting their Borrowed Time bleed out while following them.
Waking up does nothing against a camping Freddy.
In all of those examples (except EW1 Myers), the Killer can just do what they normally do. Pig crouches until they are unhooked so BT never triggers or crouches after triggering BT to run the timer down, Wraith stays cloaked until the unhook so BT never triggers or cloaks after triggering BT to run the timer down, Ghostface either stays in Night Shroud until the unhook so BT never triggers or goes into Night Shroud after BT to run the timer down, and Freddy either attacks the unhooker before the unhook so BT never triggers or attacks the unhooked to proc BT and run the timer down. The point is that BT is ineffective against all of those Killers.
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878145#Comment_878145
Its way different ,that is called stealth.
Stealth killers should counter BT not FREDDY.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878143#Comment_878143
BT worked before the rework so they changed it on purpose ?? Why???
I don't see why the difference is relevant.
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Borrowed Time also doesn't work if the Pig is crouched, Wraith is cloaked, Myers is in EW Tier 1, Ghostface is in Night Shroud, or someone is using a perk/add-on that removes their Terror Radius.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877937#Comment_877937
Killers slug for the 4k because the 4k is so valuable and literally makes a huge difference between whether they may pip or do not pip at all (or even in some cases, de-pip). There have literally been matches where I've given the last survivor the hatch and still got Entity displeased despite killing 4 of them -- because y'know, apparently trapper and other one-shot down killers earn no chaser points for using their power effectively.
I wish it was more like Identity V, where a 3k or a 4k to the killer means very, very little.
Just change the "No One Escaped" scoring event to "Victory" and make it require only 3 kills instead of 4 kills to get it. Give bonus emblem points for earning said scoring event and boom, nobody will care to slug for the 4k as much because it will no longer be such a requirement for pipping or give a chunk of bonus blood points.
Hmmmm, this idea seems like something I can very much get behind.
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From my understanding, the ones that they are not making free are ones that BHVR either cannot give away due to contractual obligations or they have already said well before this that they will never give them away to everyone for free (Legacy Skins, in this case).
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@Coriander said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/876855#Comment_876855
Magic players don't have friends, silly. =P
The toxicity of some members of the DBD community does not give me hope as to the friend count there either. ;)
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That's right, I forgot about this one. Last time I played DBD, I had a few instances of someone just zipping a few feet in a random direction because of latency or something.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/876849#Comment_876849
This has been happening to me when I play Pig. She looks like she grabbed someone for 1-2 seconds and proceed to hit instead. This one is recent too.
I've had it happening ocassionally for a while, but it seems to have gotten much worse (for me, at least) with the Dedicated Servers.
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Which is sadder: DBD having archive adjustments delayed or Magic Arena having friend lists delayed?
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I've had the inverse problem with grabs: I as killer clearly begin the grab animation, only for the grab to just be cancelled and not even count as a hit instead.
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@Venoxxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/876798#Comment_876798
I pretty much made a forum thread hours prior to this one with the exact same idea (but slightly more detailed-ish)... but called it 'Expert' mode to hopefully let people know "Hey, these challenges are gonna be super difficult. Hope you know what you're getting yourself into." and also suggested being able to preview the tome before getting into it.
So at that point if you pick that mode, it's your fault. People should figure hard is meant to be hard, their fault if they think hard is supposed to be easy.
I guess my concern is that "hard" could be "technically more difficult than normal but still easy" or it could be "sadistically difficult." And even with other people giving their input, you wouldn't really know for sure if it would be too difficult for you until you took the plunge.
If anything, I would rather it be something more like "You complete the easy challenge, and from there, you have the option to either claim the reward right there and unlock the next node or to leave the reward unclaimed and attempt to complete the hard mode of that challenge to upgrade your reward."
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What happens if you pick Hard and find it too difficult? SOL?
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@DepressedClownMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/876188#Comment_876188
Oh that is sad because the black ward just gives the killer the addons, doesnt matter if he loses or 4ks
That's because the Killer always loses their add-ons after one game no matter what whereas the Survivor can potentially keep their item or find one to take with them.
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@myers_obsession said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/876287#Comment_876287
I'm not blind. I can see they are hard for Rank 20s but they should not forget, there are Players that want difficult challenges like they should be. You are not forced to pay the rift. Idk it should be something special to get Tier 70. You should work for it. Now they are just hand it out to everyone. :/
If people don't pay for the rift because the challenges are too hard, that is bad for BHVR, no?
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Killers - Non-Cypress Moris OP
Survivors - Non-Broken Keys OP
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The problem in my eyes is that for every one extra perk slot the Killer gets, the Survivor team gets four extra slots total (even if those extra slots are conditional in what they are allowed to be). Even though the ratio would still be the same, I don't think both sides get equal benefit from such a thing.
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@lunaticlifter said:
@TAG it' because people want to made arguments telling me the game is balanced when is clearly not, when we talk about good players with meta perks, and good killers but using no spirit/nurse.. Also if you scrolled through comments you'll see what i mean, but i'll repeat for you.. It tooks 2 yers for the devs to buff a single killer, new freddy is pretty good, but it's no nurse or spirit(two only balanced killers against really good teams). We still got infinites, super safe loops, and so many survivor sided map.. we still have 4 min games.. so the point it's for me it's usless buff killers, they should just rework bad maps, And adding a second objective instead, especially if they buff solos.. this will also allow to reduce time needed to complete a gen, making the game more fun and interactive also for survivors, in terms of actions and lenght.. Clear?
Not really, no. This still kinda just seems like you're just...I dunno, rambling?
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I'm not sure I really follow OP. It kinda just seems like you are complaining about random things rather than explaining why you think buffing solos and then buffing weaker Killers won't solve the problem.
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I'd want DS changed so that hooking someone else turns off DS, but in exchange the timer on DS pauses while a Survivor is on the ground so the Killer cannot simply slug it out and must go after someone else.
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So if I run, like, Haunted Grounds, Ruin, and Thrill of the Hunt, this means that as long as I can keep the lone dull Totem uncleansed, I am good to go?
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@DingDongs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870473#Comment_870473
Ohhhh I'll be surprise if any killer main using that perk just for counter 1 perk
I use it for my meme build. ;)
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Lol, I actually spent a decent amount of time working on a FNaF Killer (Power, Add-Ons, and Perks), even though I have never played any of the games and have zero interest in the franchise. Never bothered to share it, though, because I largely forgot about it until recently.
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@Peanits said:
I'm no Clown main, but it doesn't take a Clown main to tell you that someone who brags about consistently beating the best possible opponents is just talking themselves up.
That, or he's master baiter and he just hooked you like a pro.
A master baiter, huh? He must love using the VHS Porn add-on, then.
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@NurseMainBTW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/871281#Comment_871281
Yes. I made the meme but it wasn't meant to be insulting... just something to lighten up the mood.
(I was just kidding about Trapperchu. I knew what you meant. :P )
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@NurseMainBTW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/871254#Comment_871254
What part of "not to be taken seriously" was not clear? :/
I thought you were referring to Trapperchu.
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Trapper, Doctor, and Legion
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/868434#Comment_868434
How would pig gameplay be less interesting? All that change does is save you time putting traps on. If people would take traps off in the beginning of the game before they do gens, you could make rule set no 2 base kit like people wanted. If anything as a survivor it'd feel more interesting because you'd never know when your trap would activate. Could be on the first gen, could be on the last.
As for the perks, I'll admit I didn't think of all the hook related perks there were because so few are used( aside from DS, We'll Make It, Borrowed Time, and Dying Light). Anyways most of them could just be small changes.
DS could work once you're picked up the first time.
I can't think of anything for Borrowed Time atm but there'd be no more camping so perhaps it could be more for the user than someone you're helping, or it could be like a drive by instaheal one time per person by healing one health state when in dying and giving them endurance, I dunno.
Make Your Choice could give everyone else exposed when someone takes a protection hit.
Devour Hope could make your movement speed increase for each person you kill, or just lower the stack requirements.
Babysitter could work off protection hits as well.
We'll Make It could increase healing speed without med kits for every person killed.
Slippery Meat would be fine, it still has the use against bear traps. Though maybe a buff would be fine.
Breakdown the only thing I can think of is breaking all hooks within the area you were hooked. Sort of a team play perk.
Kindred is a hard one. Perhaps while in a chase everyone's aura is revealed to each other.
Furtive Chase could keep the obsession always alive so that perks like Dark Devotion never go away. Perhaps once the obsession dies, a random other target becomes the obsession. Killing an obsession gives stacks for the TR reduction.
I would have said Camaraderie could have increased wiggle timer but another perk is gonna do that soon so I dunno. Perhaps increase heal speed on nearby slugs. The only problem is slugs would become less probable due to only one hook state but sabotage would be coming back so it might still occur.
Second wind could just remove the on hook application. We're making it harder to be downed anyways with these changes because one hook = death so I don't see a problem with buffing it.
Monstrous Shrine could replace BBQ in its BP generation, or just grant some as well for hooking people in the basement.
Huntress Lullaby could give stacks faster, or something. Same for Dying Light, but then again Dying Light is kinda busted when it gives enough stacks and with only one life maybe it'd be fine the way it was.
Pop could regress an entire generator.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869110#Comment_869110
It's already an instant death when you get hit by a camper or a tunneler, so what's the difference? I'd rather move on to my next game and make surviving last longer so that bloodpoints aren't so atrociously low when you do get someone who would play like that. I dunno what you mean by recycle, but I'd much rather have a one hook death than sit on a hook for 2 minutes while my teammates do gens. I'd also much rather not have a killer able to immediately chase me right off my hook with an ebony mori. At least moris won't feel like the game is impossible with this change.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/868789#Comment_868789
No one said to make it impossible to be caught, just harder to be caught to compensate for only having one life. I also mentioned to make maps darker again and add more LOS blockers so that you could LOSE the killer, not only pallet loop them all day.
Here's the thing: Traps are a one-and-done deal. Once it is used up, it is gone. If you make it so everyone just starts with a Trap, once people take it off (which they will, because otherwise that would be horrifically OP), all you have is M1 and crouching/ambushing. This could happen currently, but at least for that to happen, either you need to exhaust all your Traps or the game needs to be almost over (which is its own problem, but I digress). Just having the Traps start on everyone to adjust things to "one hook = death" is removing some decision making: Do I use the Traps ASAP or spread them out over the course of the game or save them until close to the end for an Endgame strat (which is now much weaker due to the EGC nerf, but again, I digress)? Do I trap the same person twice or leave them be before 2nd hook because I am sure I can catch them easily afterward? Once someone is Trapped, do I find them at a Box or leave them be so I can better protect Gens? It just becomes "Everyone is Trapped, so now I just play as though I am Wraith 2: Electric Boogaloo." Now, because all that is still necessary to make the one-hook change work, it kinda just means to me that the one-hook change is just not a good idea.
DS would be absurdly powerful if you are also intending to make it harder to down someone to compensate for one-hook deaths. Stronger than old DS, I would say.
Make Your Choice would make little sense both mechanically and flavorfully; if a protection hit gives everyone exposed, aren't you just better off still going for the person you are already in a chase with? Plus, the point of Make Your Choice is that the other people are supposed to make a decision (do I unhook and risk Exposed), not the Pig.
Devour Hope seems like it'd be OP as a non-Hex perk and crappy as a Hex perk (since it does nothing until you kill someone, it would be easy to just knock out the Totem before that happens).
Babysitter seems like complete garbage
We'll Make It seems like garbage
Slippery Meat seems like super garbage
Breakdown seems like garbage (because either it does nothing useful, or, if it actually becomes good enough to run, Killers just start running Hangman's Trick)
Kindred wouldn't work as three separate tiered perks as you have described it.
Furtive Chase seems pointless with the existence of Nemesis. Also, Rancor.
Camaraderie seems bad for the reason you stated. I wouldn't expect sabotaging to come back as long as Hangman's Trick is a thing.
How would that work if you are already at full health? Does the healing timer when you go from healthy to injured? That would basically just make it an always on-hand Syringe, which would be crazy. Does it go to waste if you are at full health? That would make it super clunky.
Monstrous Shrine...meh, that perk needs to be changed anyways.
How would you "get stacks faster"?
Pop would probably singlehandedly win the Killer the game if it regressed a whole Generator.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/107543/question-for-devs-esp-peanits-on-new-stats
every test or stats will have some variable they dont cover you cant account for everything even if you tried there will always be...outlaws i guess is the word?
The word you are looking for is "outliers." :P
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I'd personally just wait to see what happens and then grind it out through Huntress's Bloodweb if the interaction goes unchanged. IMO you lose more by wasting Shards than by grinding the web of a Killer you don't play for teachables.
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@Mushwin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869546#Comment_869546
could of said about legion why not make 4 killers, because it's something different for survs?
The thing is that they all share the same power, so making two distinct Killers that are mechanically identical wouldn't really make sense. With Survivors, they are mechanically identical outside of their perks, so it is alright to split them apart and give them each their own perk set.
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I like this idea at first glance. One issue is that SWF would mostly not care about this except for maybe losing the Red Stain.
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Why not just make two Survivors with 3 perks each like Nancy and Steve and just make them twins in-lore?
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@Avariku said:
gotta love the mental gymnastics some people will do to completely nullify facts shown to them...
Killers getting an avg killrate above 50% ?
it's because survivors are potatoes, it's cause the data is skewed, it's because survivors just goof off, it's ANYTHING that can help me ignore the fact that killers are, in fact, the power role I keep claiming they aren't...
because I get 6 rounds in a row that are 4k, but then I get one where they teabag and I only get a 1k so that one round clearly shows the killer is too weak and needs buffs. /s
one factor I will question is how many of those 3k's were just lucky hatch escapes? but I'm sure something like that wouldn't skew data huh.
*points to Peanits saying that one shouldn't draw conclusions from these stats*
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@waylon_300 said:
I don’t think it would make stealth killers pointless though. You can still read the killers aura and if you get ambushed by them once you’ll have better early warning than say a wraith or ghost face
A big part of the stealth Killer is the lack of a TR. There are other small things too, but giving Oblivious to anyone working on a gen takes away the big thing about stealth Killers. So I would say it makes stealth Killers pointless.
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@not_Queef said:
Just hide until there the EGC is nearly over, then make some noise and when he comes to find you, teabag him for the last few seconds before you die.
I count this as a win.
You have a weird definition of "win."
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Only if they pause the EGC timer while it is active. ;)
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It's with regards to the Steam version and the Microsoft Store version, I think?
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@Sleephartha said:
Many of you disagreeing with me are missing the point. Some of the arguments:
- Survivors screwing around or giving up skew the results. - And what about killers screwing around? It balances out.
- Doesn't account for builds. - Doesn't matter. Bad survivor builds, Bad killer builds. Any crazy builds are the vast minority. Dollars to donuts the totality of these matches will balance out to about the same level of killer vs survivor builds. That's the beauty of large data sets.
- You depip at 2k. - Doesn't matter. Pips have nothing to do with this. If 2k is a 'draw', mostly black pip, and 3k is a win, then that basically lines up. Killers aren't supposed to 'win' all the time. A fairly balanced game is more like 50% overall.
- Amazing survivors can run circles around killers, etc. - A lot of misunderstanding here. Starting with Amazing killers get 4ks all day long which is I guess the closest equivalent. Case studies of individual players beating the odds. What is being missed is the overall picture. Everyone isn't a super survivor and everyone isn't a master killer. Assuming there are roughly the same percentages of weak, average and great players on each side and they all generally get matched up correctly, everything balances out. The point being made in the data is that the entire survivor pool gets beat up by the entire killer pool.
As for the argument that high rank survivors simply don't belong there and aren't the equivalent to high rank killers... let's call this the boosted potato argument... this would just be another major problem. Matchmaking and opponent balance are 2 sides of the same coin. If the game's built in system for generating games is creating imbalanced matches in the killer's favor that's a huge problem and a reason why survivors would complain about killers being OP. Also, this wouldn't be the survivor's fault. I know this is crazy asking killer mains to try to use their empathy bone but... imagine almost every game you played you were matched against players 6-8 ranks higher than you. It would be frustrating. If you didn't KNOW they were 6-8 ranks higher because they had your same rank you'd think the game was imbalanced wouldn't you? That survivors were OP?
And guys, to be clear, these numbers don't add up into perfect 25/50/75/100 categories because they are sums of all games. So adding up your 0k this game, 2k this game and 4k that game etc, you'll get like 97,640 kills out of 136,696 survivors. The totals for the strongest, most popular killers settle out around 3ks per game. If we're defining balanced as 2ks, that's not balanced.
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Maybe the best argument against myself is that the game isn't balanced around kills but around ability to make BPs and pips. And I have been in many games where i was part of a 3k or 4k but we all pipped or even double pipped and/or got loads of BPs. So maybe for game balance the stats we want to see are the pips and points? How many times do survivors pip vs spirit, freddy. billy as opposed to clown etc? I'd imagine that the results are similar... lower pip rates with those killers but it would probably appear less imbalanced than this data. I'd bet it would still show that Billy needs to be nerfed.... ; )
The best argument against you is that they flat-out said that there are a ton of factors that go into those stats and that we shouldn't really be drawing any conclusions from those stats:
@Peanits said:
I feel like I really need to stress this line from that post:
Please keep in mind that numbers are not everything; there are a whole bunch of factors that could influence these numbers.
To use the Spirit as an example, as we've mentioned many times before, we do not balance based on stats alone. We make sure to do our research first and there's a lot of compelling arguments for why she should have been changed.
And again, there's a bunch of different factors involved. Is Freddy overpowered, or is it just a combination of perks and add-ons that make him that strong? These are all things that need to be considered.
So just to reiterate one last time, I really would not recommend drawing any conclusions from these stats. These are averages, not specific and incredibly detailed data that you should draw any conclusions from.
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@Galklife said:
its true both cases are bad @GrootDude but too many ppl here just lynch survs forgetting killers are just dodging what they dont like
Both are guilty and should be generally frowned upon.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865827#Comment_865827
Dying is fine, but being forced to sit out 2 full minutes while not playing just so the rest of your team can gen rush with the likely chance due to all the slowdown perks available now that they will get a second person just so that you can die is not. As i've said in the past. This is basically the same behavior as old school shooting games where people would stand at your spawn point and shoot you over and over and over again upon spawning, which is a big reason other games put systems in place to prevent that.
Anyways, it's no secret that most people who only play killer want survivors to die faster. This solves that problem as well.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865767#Comment_865767
I mean that doesn't sound like a huge change. Just have survivors start with RBTs on and have them activate at random times upon completion of gens. You already know who you're facing when it's Pig anyways.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865844#Comment_865844
Everything related to hooks, so... removing hook stages, and changing like 3 perks is suddenly a major change? I already gave a suggestion for Pig upon replying to TAG. Sure there are some things that could require major change(mainly balance of killers. Trapper might become too powerful because of how easy it is to get a survivor once they are in a trap), but those might not all come in the same patch anyways if this were to happen.
The most effort this would require is some additional pallets and LOS blockers on maps, and darkening the maps so hiding is viable.
That seems like it just makes Pig gameplay less interesting. Not sure that would be worth the mechanic changes you propose to me.
Plus, as far as perks that need to be completely changed:
Make Your Choice
Decisive Strike
Borrowed Time
Devour Hope
Babysitter
We'll Make It
Slippery Meat
Breakdown
Kindred
Furtive Chase
Camaraderie
Second Wind
Monstrous Shrine
Probably Huntress Lullaby because it now sucks
Probably Dying Light because it now sucks
Probably Pop Goes the Weasel because it now sucks
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This makes stealth characters redundant.
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He already has one as his default head cosmetic.
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@thesuicidefox said:
- Green key = you can pick the hatch lock in 10 seconds as the last survivor.
- Purple key = you can pick the hatch lock in 10 seconds and the hatch closes behind you.
- Pink key = you can pick the hatch lock in 10 seconds and the hatch stays open for 10 seconds, then closes and triggers EGC (even if there is only 1 survivor left).
- Killer can interrupt the hatch pick animation.
- Change some add-ons to slightly reduce hatch lock pick time (no less than 6 seconds though).
Personally I feel like this would make keys way more fair.
However I'd like to make a strong point here that you can't nerf keys until you nerf mori. Both need to happen at the same time to be totally fair honestly.
Can we change the Skeleton key to only needing five seconds and the Hatch closes behind you? Or even opens instantly and the Hatch closes behind you?
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The entire Dead By Daylight team is going to get chewed out for letting Pig become too competent.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866427#Comment_866427
And someone put Mcote’s (I think?) body on Wraith
Holy crap, you're right. I almost missed that. Kudos to the shopper for making it look so seamless.
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This pic is obviously shopped. You can clearly tell that the words on the paper Wraith is holding are edited in.
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Pig confirmed better than Nurse :P