Sleephartha
Sleephartha
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I’ve always wondered why so few people played her. I hate going against her because she’s no fun. That vomit is way too ez to get a hit with and suddenly you’re sick and going into 1 hit status, unless you use a fountain and then she goes into slaughter status. You can’t win without a gen rush.
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I gave up. I thought I’d try doing the rift challenges as killer but I have been stuck on the 5 silver chase emblems because I get looped and run like a #########. Every game I play teams that taunt and loop and everyone has DS and they are 10 RANKS HIGHER. unreal.
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I’ve been running Calm Spirit since it just makes statistical sense that you’re gonna play vs doctor right now. Even with CS though doc 4ks a lot because finding survivors at will is pretty gd strong. Also he’s much better at preventing survivors from vaulting and throwing pallets now and that makes it even worse. In most games he finds people immediately and then they either dc or he hooks, static blasts, and finds the guy nearby who was going to save. Now clearly if everyone played smarter and didn’t get so close to hook knowing he’s going to blast, or hid in a closet right after he hooks, things might go better. But currently doc is destroying teams. Worst kept secret: there really aren’t that many good runners and loopers out there, at least on PS4. So being able to find survivors at will is pretty OP right now.
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interesting points. Just from survivor perspective it feels, at least right now, that he’ll end up a smidge higher on the tier list. He’s still annoying to play against but much less than he was. Not always starting from scratch on a missed ‘snap out of it’ skill check is wonderful. And the ruin change makes the anti gen build a thing of the past.
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If I really need to clarify.... you can’t decimate a decent team as billy right off the bat. It takes time to figure out the steering and timing etc. Nurse should be obvious. Freddy seems to take a lot of work... placing traps, teleporting... chasing. But with doc it’s just Static blast, then chase. And he’s 4k ing a lot. I dunno... just my impression.
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@SnakeSound222 said:
Holy crap! Players are running a brand new UR add-on and are combining it with the other one to see if they work well together! How could anyone have predicted this, especially a few days after the Killer got buffed?
It’s been three ######### days and it’s the first weekend since Doc was buffed. Of course people are going to be using both UR add-ons to see if they work well together. Is it that hard to grasp, or are you too busy complaining that you can’t easily loop the Killer for five gens and become invisible the entire game?
Holy hell what set this guy off? Dude... set down the controller... get off the forum... maybe go watch a sunset or something...
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I’ve played against about 30 docs in the past few days and I’m telling you... half are running both king and queen.
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i appreciate all the helpful and straightforward responses. I’ve been doing the closet thing but when he uses static blast as often as possible you simply can’t spend all game running in lockers. And no way in hell am i going to waste a slot on a perk that is only useful against one killer (re: calm spirit). I could understand spine chill for spirit because that perk is strong vs a lot of popular killers but calm spirit? Gimme a break. I dunno... so far I haven’t been on a team that’s beaten doc yet. I’m solo though so we don’t coordinate like swf. I still think static blast is too strong. 60 sec cooldown is way too fast.
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I think the teammate aura perks are underestimated and underutilized. I use all of them at different times depending on mood and how I want to play.
Right now I use Kindred the most because you get everyone’s aura at a key time. You can see which way the killer is heading (and which killer it is) and get a good idea of if you need to save. There’s also the side benefit of teammates having more info for saving you.
I love Aftercare because of the unlimited range, possibility of seeing everyone, and the 2 way visuals. This is often invaluable for getting gens done in late game and avoiding a lot of endgame bs when there’s just 2 survivors. The downside is sometimes that you get sandbagged by your less sportsmanly teammates.
Bond is cool because like Kindred you get key info: the teammates around you. But it’s useless when everyone’s elsewhere and no useful killer info usually..
Empathy is nice because you can get early info on where the killer and players are from early hits. And helps you heal those in need.
Overall I find Kindred and Aftercare most useful and usually run them with WMI because they promote saving of teammates and I may as well also heal them super quick. There are TONS of times WMI comes in handy when the killer is on a multiple down streak. Unhook one, fast heal, then fast heal the slugged teammate, etc.
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TL:DR whole thread. But my .02 based mostly on the OPs comments:
Sorry but I'm rank 1 solo survivor main and killers still get 3-4k averages from what I see. If this helps bring it down to 2-3k averages then that's fair. If devs ever get around to strengthening solo play to be more like SWF then I could see re-balancing in favor of killer. Building in extra requirements for survivors to escape etc. But I honestly don't understand where killers are coming from. Every streamer I watch gets EASY 3-4ks all day long and even me... a garbage killer just learning the ropes.... i've been tolerating horrible matchmaking and 4k-ing teams 5-6 ranks higher than myself (I'm now 10 beating teams of 4s and 5s). Killer is EZ, except vs gen rushing very good swf teams and those aren't the norm.
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Meh. Some of you get it. Some of you don't. I'm not going to beat my head against a wall. If you want to have fun pointing out my gameplay errors, have fun. Turning to run and bumping into the killer isn't a decision, it's ######### that happens. I'm sure none of you expert critics out there ever run into a tree or get stuck on a corner etc. when you get hit. Again, not the point, but again... its what you want to focus on because you don't want to admit the point. Whatever.
I've admitted the error of not taking the hit to get BT. Someone else mentioned just running a different direction... armchair QB isn't a good position for this game. Killer would have followed and I'd be downed. My decision was to run straight for the gate assuming I'd get teammates taking hits (which they did). The problem (ASIDE FROM NOT TAKING A BT HIT) is that the gates weren't opened or have anyone waiting to open them. When I saw that, I still ran to the gate to open them since I thought that was best for the team and maybe I could make it.
One last thing and I'm done with this thread. You critics are just focused on scoring your forum points. And maybe some of you genuinely believe that there is no reason to stay at the 99 doors to avoid this situation. Fair enough. But seriously... focus on the big picture. The game is messy. People make heat-of-the-moment errors all game long. What we do have under our control is strategic and tactical decisions. Critical decisions that affect the gameplay in big ways. Should we work the gen, go for the save, find the Hex totem, heal this guy or go save that guy... etc. You need to get the strategic stuff right to allow for more messiness and errors in the skill based, heat of the moment stuff, yet still win. Basically, if the team plays smart and makes the right decisions they can make more heat-of-the-moment mistakes and do well.
My belief is that the strategic choice to 99 the doors is best if you stay near the door to open them to avoid someone being chased... whether they have made errors or not to get them to that spot.... having to pause to open them and get caught. I'm done.
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People DC because they want to DC. I’m sure they’re aware of what BPs they’re losing. Believe it or not, BPs are really easy to get. Sometimes you just want out of a game.
And every DC makes subsequent DCs more likely since they all know the game is now much more in the killer’s favor. That’s probably why the chain reaction of 3 DCs
Maybe you should spend less time judging people and more time studying your spelling.
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lol... of course you're more eager to critique my gameplay than admit the fng point is correct.
My build is my build for my own reasons that game. The build is irrelevant. The point is the doors should have been already open or there should have been someone by them waiting to open them for people being chased trying to escape. They could open the door and run behind the person needing protection.
Bloodwarden would not be an issue. The fact that I could have paused to let him hit me while BT was active is a fair critique. Thanks. But again, not the point. If the door was opened correctly I would have escaped regardless. Isn't that what this is about? Doing the most things you can to help your team win? Are you actually going to argue that it made more sense to stand at the top of the stairs and watch... vs stand at the door and pop it when needed and then take a hit for the injured survivor at the door? Just take survivor perks out of the picture and assume that's my 2nd hook... I get pulled off and run to the door while being chased... I shouldn't have to veer off to open the damn thing myself. Period.
Oh and for the record, I escaped eventually.
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And don’t stay by them to open them....
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There are a ton of variables in play win an unhook situation. Off the top of my head the main ones are:
- How campy the killer is
- Goals of the saving survivor (points, self-preservation, protecting the hooked survivor)
- Killer power/perks/addons
- Saving survivor perks/addons
- Game state - how many survivors are left and what are they busy doing
Sometimes you just get the unlucky combo of 1 or 2 survivors being 75% on a gen and hoping someone else gets the save while the 3rd is being chased.
But from my experience, when 1 or 2 actually have the ability to save and are in the area but just hesitating its usually because they aren't running BT and are trying to wait for the killer to leave the area to get a safe unhook. I think there are plenty of survivors that aren't very good runners and so don't want to take that hit because if they get downed then the person they just saved is injured and thats a bad situation if the killer is campy. If the killer leaves then it's a crapshoot whether that survivor will save you while they're injured.
But yeah... there are TONS of bad red rank players. I think most of them are just players that think they're loop gods and just run meta perks believing that's all there is to the game. Then I watch them make horrible plays game after game after game. They don't use their brains and try to predict killer moves or use a combination of stealth and heroics. They're either just all heroics or all stealth. It's aggravating but it is what it is.
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@VoodooChild said:
Im not trying t be an ######### or anything but why not just hit it right? The only times its impossible to hit it right is when youre going to get downed anyway
You can’t always “just hit it right”. If you turn a corner while hugging a wall and a window is right there you have to maneuver out and back at it. Just one example. And yes, as others have noted, I know how to reorient myself to turn a med vault into a fast vault but sometimes you just can’t so you either run past it or give the medium vault a shot... anyhow... I get it. All fast vaults is too strong. Fair enough.
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@Pulsar said:
I respect you greatly as someone who is not afraid of debate and discussion. However, what you are proposing is a return of MANY infinites, something that 90% of the community agrees isn't healthy for the game.
To be simple and brief, "this ain't it chief."
Lol. I understand the feedback and can agree with it. But I think there’s room for improvement on that medium vault speed....
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Thanks for (some of) the feedback. I started playing this about a year ago so I’ve never experienced the “broken” vaults. I see the point of it turning every vault area into a tough loop. I still think the medium vaults are too slow though.
As for the guy who has to turn my question into an insult using the WELL OVERUSED “entitlement” epithet... perhaps consider not regurgitating the same old toxic garbage. If you think killers don’t display the same sense of what you call “entitlement” you’re deluding yourself. Both sides expect a certain amount of fairness, quality and fun in their game and so work toward improving their experience.
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I do.
If I get hit and get away I find it worth it to heal. As stated 2 survivors losing 16s is the same as 1 losing 32s so there is no efficiency loss from SC itself. The real question isn't whether to use SC, it's whether or not you should heal at all after being hit. Is it worth it to risk getting 1 hit in order to save the time healing in order to crank out gens.
Since I'm not the best runner, once I get hit I heal because if I get caught again (which is likely) it will take more time and risk for others to save me. There's an old saying "don't throw good money after bad". Don't make a bad situation worse by playing against the odds and in the end making things worse. If the odds are that you're going to get hit again, heal.
I'm not saying this is a rule, but a guideline for folks who aren't great runners. And there are still caveats - I work the last gen or 2 while injured and if there are great runners on my team keeping the killer busy I'm more likely to skip healing to focus on gens.
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If all survivors would:
1) Work thru Ruin
2) Not blow that first Ruin skill check
survival rates would double.
Even when you miss some or all the ruin skill checks, ruin will only slow down the generator completion maybe 20%. Compare that to the minutes spent by multiple survivors searching for it and not getting gens done. If I had to pick the single thing that would make the largest positive difference for survivors, it would be this.
However because they never do I run small game a lot to find it faster so they'll get back on gens.
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Ok.. Clarification that I meant when the survivor does not stay by the gate to pop them (to wait out blood warden and/or open them for a chased teammate). I'll agree that the point about EGC allowing the killer to cut someone off from the gates and wait for the entity to do his job but I still think that the other situations I mentioned happen more often than this one and so it does more harm than good... unless they wait at the switch. Thanks for the feedback.
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I completed Fight Back yesterday and didn’t get credit. It never ends with this gd game...
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I agree. I was trying to maximize the stealth effect by using UE, IW and LB together and was messing with the 4th perk. I used SC at first which definitely helps save the 3 minutes of perk use but then again using SB helps me gain distance to make evasion better. Anyway, its fun experimenting with another possibly decent perk. The scratch mark issue still bugs me though. If its not really that useful in getting away since the killer can follow the scratch marks, and its primary utility is after you've escaped, well SC is pretty much the best way to not leave blood trails after escaping... so how much harder is it really to track a survivor running this?
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Anyone have a link to a video? I haven't been able to find anything though I've seen people make videos of survivor perks from killer perspective before. I've been running it a bit with IW as well but if I still leave scratch marks I don't think it's worth a slot. I'd like to see the difference if possible....
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@oxygen said:
As long as it puts a hard time limit on the game it doesn't matter if it helps the killer or survivor(s). Its purpose is to force the game to end, and sometimes the gates are within view of eachother for the killer, while sometimes they're far away with lots of obstacles obscuring vision.
Serves as a healthy reminder that no, a player doesn't "deserve" the final kill just because they killed the other 3, and they don't "deserve" a better shot at escaping than the game offers them with the gate locations and map.
I do agree that the super-close gates with a hill between them are silly though, but in my eyes it's like dying to NOED when you "should've escaped" - you got to play until the end of the match and presumably got most of your BP and emblem score already. I'd take that over getting mori-tunneled 1 minute into the match any day of the week to put it that way.
I hear you. If 50% of the time the doors were so far apart there was no way to cover both and the other 50% they were close, and impossible to escape with, there would still be a 75% overall to the killer since in the “hard” scenario he will guess right half the time. And I’m ok with that. But in reality the times the doors are that far apart are rare. In my experience it’s impossible to get out of the doors at EGC about 90% of the time. And in green ranks or above the killer usually already knows where the hatch is so they take it out of the equation one way or other.
Maybe the escape rates are higher for swfs and since the goal is to make solos as strong as swfs it will eventually get better for us solos... we’ll see...
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/925896#Comment_925896
Why are you so toxic, even on the forums? All I've ever heard from you is anger and hate to whoever dares to disagree. Calm down.
That isn’t toxic. It is a complete truth that the last survivor in EGC has almost no chance. Yet killers chime in with “git gud” and “you failed at every opportunity” etc. Those are the toxic ones.
EGC rewards a killer who already got a 3k with an incredibly ez 4th k. And that survivor could arguably have played flawlessly. Yet when looking at whether to maybe err on the side of giving that survivor a reasonable chance to escape and letting the killer get a ridiculously easy kill the game gives the killer the ez kill. Sorry but that’s wrong.
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Seriously, please stop with the “you lost” and “you screwed up all your chances” replies. It’s not appropriate. Most of these games I couldn’t have played any better. So I work hard doing gens, getting saves, running the killer and yet my teammates die. The game shouldn’t just end at this point, which is what it does for all intents and purposes. As imbalanced and flawed as this game is, at least it’s competitive and you have a chance if you try hard and play well... until sole survivor EGC.
And if the killer already got 3k, isn’t that already a win? But I guess that’s a big part of the problem... this mentality that only 4k is a win ruins this game. It’s fine for survivors to have to accept dying but pipping as a win but god forbid a killer get less than a 4k... then he feels bad.
This 4k or nothing mentality is what causes most of the toxicity in this game... slugging, tunnelling, camping... all for that 4k. Let the 4th survivor who made it to endgame have a fighting chance? F NO! I want my ez 4k. He doesn’t deserve it. He must SUCK if he got in this situation...
Seriously... your EGC final kill is as worthless as pocket lint and as easy to get. It’s pretty telling that killers would rather just have a free kill than a fair one.
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Sorry but, a few rebuffs to above:
1) My personal results are ONE survivor. Not indicative of the entire population. So it doesn't refute the killer bias.
2) This post:
"The statistics mean little as most people in this game are not very good or coordinated, thereby killers win not because they are the stronger role, but because survivors are not playing optimally, Also as a sidenote, anything under 75% is a 2k and most killers do sit at under 75%, so even taking the statistics into account, killers are largely only killing 2 survivors."
shows a complete lack of understanding of statistics and data. The point about players not being good or coordinated is irrelevant and wrong. And the point about anything under 75% being 2k is just misunderstanding how math works.We're not just talking 1 round with 4 survivors so that the numbers are discrete: 2 = 50% 3 = 75% etc. We're adding up all kills divided by the total survivors. e.g. 34,872 kills out of 40,000
3) This post:
"Omg good players with 90% win rates? Who would've thought? It's almost as if they put time and dedication into playing the game..."
Assumes Survivors don't put time and dedication into the game. Let's be clear, game balance assumes 1 killer is EQUAL to 4 survivors together. So most games SHOULD be 1 killer versus 4 survivors of roughly EQUAL ABILITY. Your post makes sense if you're talking about why a red rank killer beats brown rank survivors, NOT equally matched games.
I'm done. I'll take another break from the forums....
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I think this will be my last response on the thread since it does seem futile. I said my piece. I stand by it.
My personal experience, from the last time I actually tracked my games, was about 60% escapes over 50 games. Very often this was as the final survivor. So I was that 1 out of 4 that made it out. I was also part of plenty 4ks and 3ks.
Within large amounts of data like the kill rates there is room for above average survivors doing better than average and below average survivors doing worse. Some killers will have 90% kill rates and higher, others will be closer to 50%. But the overall average, the majority, is 75%.
The killers in the 50 games I tracked had a kill rate of 60%. They also averaged about 2 ranks lower than the team average.
it’s reasonable to expect that above average survivors skew things toward better than average outcomes. Just like the below average survivors screw the team and create below average outcomes.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/916303#Comment_916303
I would like Solo's buffed to SWF levels, then Killers adjusted appropriately, does that sound fair?
Yep. I completely agree with knell about the solo/swf issue. It’s probably the first thing I ever argued about on the forums. Solos get reamed because of balancing to swf. So they either need to be made equal or separate.
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@Pulsar said:
This is absolutely bait. You are trying to incite chaos, but I'll humor you about Otz and Tru3.
Simply put, Otz and Tru3 are the best of the best. There are not many players that can rival them in skill nor talent. When using great add-ons that fix the basic problems of the Wraith, yeah, they will do well.
It’s absolutely NOT bait. I feel strongly about pointing out the facts about what’s really going on in this game. The solo survivor experience often stinks and even good solos will get destroyed because of bad teammates. That is a part of game balance. If the reality is that very good solo players will lose most of the time because there aren’t enough other good solos it’s not fair to balance to the rare events of 4 strong groups. IOW, what was said about balancing the best killer to the best 4 man team is meaningless if the frequency of facing the best 4 man team is 1 in 100. If there are 10000 great killers and 10000 great survivors but those great survivors are in teams with merely good or average survivors most of the time then you don’t balance to the 1 in 100 times when the very good players land together. You balance to the average team that gets created at those levels.
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@knell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/916034#Comment_916034
I read your post. That’s good clarification to know. But as a data analyst for the past 15 years or so I am comfortable that the red rank killers (at the start of the match) were in matches with red and purple rank survivors most of the time. I don’t believe that some small amount of lower ranks would skew the data enough to make an impact.
Can you prove that? As in, can you prove that the majority of the matches consisted of ONLY Red/Purple Rank survivors (and not, for example, majority consisting of SWF groups with SOME Green/Yellow/Grey survivors?)
Bear in mind the clarification means there are also times when a rank 4 killer was going against rank 1 survivors. The exceptions wouldn’t all be ones that make getting a high kill rate easier.
That's true. Like you say, the highest ranked survivors that a Rank 4 Killer can go up against are 4 Rank 1 Survivors. But the lowest ranked survivors that the same Rank 4 Killer can go up against are 4 Rank 10 Survivors (in all solo group.) If it is a SWF, the lowest ranked survivors that a Rank 4 Killer can go up against are 1 Rank 10 Survivor and 3 Rank 20 Survivors. So even looking at simply the variety of "exceptions" that are possible, it seems to much more favor higher kill rates than if it is simply a statistical data set of "real" Red Rank Matches, in which all 5 players are in the red ranks.
And honestly, come on... the “all ranks” data was basically the same. We all see the same numbers and we all play this game and know the data is true. 3k average.
Yeah, I really have no interest in the "all ranks" data. My only concern was in finding even a semblance of what the skill ceilings are on both sides. After all, that is how most games are generally balanced - at the top first, then down. So, to me personally, it was disappointing that BHVR couldn't provide even the idea of that - and even more disappointing that they weren't more honest and clear in how they gathered their data.
My main point is you can’t just jack up ease of pipping for survivors and say “hey. It’s asymmetrical horror. You’ll just die every game but you’ll rank up”.
You're absolutely right. In fact, I'd argue that pipping and ranking should be much more difficult on both sides. There is too much skill disparity even among the red ranks for both killers and survivors - where I'd argue that most people in red ranks currently probably shouldn't be in the red ranks. It's as if the 'time-played' dictates more about the rank than the actual skill of the players. As a casual, averaged-skill player, I should never be in the Red Ranks, but there I am. This does indeed make data-gathering for "best players" even more difficult.
A 4 man team should have the same chance of all escaping as the killer has to 4k. Thus it should average out at an appx 50% kill rate. And killer perception of win and pipping should adjust accordingly.
Again, you are right that a 4 man survivor team and its killer opponent should both have an average of 2 Kill/2 Escape rate if they are of the same skill level. In order to do that, BHVR should look closely at the very top skill level on both sides (for survivors and each of the killers) and make sure that on average, 2 Kill/2 Escape Ratio is maintained. If a perfect, gen-rushing, voice com 4-SWF survivors have more than a 2 Escape average against a perfect kill-focused Trapper, then Trapper should be buffed. If a perfect, gen-rushing, voice com 4-SWF survivors have less than a 2 Escape average against a perfect kill-focused Nurse, then the Nurse needs to be nerfed. From that point on, BHVR should balance the game downwards so that similarly skilled survivors can be matched together.
aside from maybe a couple little things I agree.
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@knell said:
Just to emphasize again that Red Rank stats weren't really from Red Rank matches...
I read your post. That’s good clarification to know. But as a data analyst for the past 15 years or so I am comfortable that the red rank killers (at the start of the match) were in matches with red and purple rank survivors most of the time. I don’t believe that some small amount of lower ranks would skew the data enough to make an impact.
Bear in mind the clarification means there are also times when a rank 4 killer was going against rank 1 survivors. The exceptions wouldn’t all be ones that make getting a high kill rate easier.
And honestly, come on... the “all ranks” data was basically the same. We all see the same numbers and we all play this game and know the data is true. 3k average.
My main point is you can’t just jack up ease of pipping for survivors and say “hey. It’s asymmetrical horror. You’ll just die every game but you’ll rank up”. A 4 man team should have the same chance of all escaping as the killer has to 4k. Thus it should average out at an appx 50% kill rate. And killer perception of win and pipping should adjust accordingly.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Try this: play killer and survivor at a red rank level for a while ajd draw your own conclusion. As far as Otz and Tru3 go, they literally play the game for a living. I wouldn't cite a pro basketball player's shooting percentage as a reasonable metric for the average hobbyist to attain.
That’s the beauty of data analysis. I don’t have to smoke cigarettes for 20 years to see for myself that they cause cancer. And it isn’t just Otz and Tru3... the data shows all red rank killers in that range. Again...FACTS.
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@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/915794#Comment_915794
Isn't it weird though that these guys almost constantly 4K stomp, but they often find themselves complaining how OP the Survivors are almost constantly? I just find it weird to watch them win without much effort and then turn around and cry when a Survivor briefly uses something (like Dead Hard) to get away and suddenly they are complaining. Then they 4K anyway.
:I
Lol THIS.
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@Kenshin said:
i already had enough reading the titel. guess its another bait thread.
If you can’t argue the facts, snipe.
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@PistolTimb said:
The Game is killer sided if the survivors are bad. If the survivors have the skill to be good, the game is entirely in their hands.
Fallacy. Solo survivor at red ranks is still a crap shoot since you get red rank survivors on your team that suck because pipping is easy. The only way to ensure a decent game is with a 4 man swf and most people don’t have that luxury. Again, aside from 4 man swf, this game is killer biased.
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It’s too dark. Honestly I’d love to keep it as-is so I can have fun running stealth builds for a while until the map is less frequent but I can acknowledge it’s just unfair.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/890393#Comment_890393
Survivors control where they get downed -- not the killer. When I have DS and I know I'm about to go down and the gates are close to being powered (I.E., one generator left) -- I make sure I go down on the side of the map where one of the gates exists in, which is often not very hard, even if the gates are both on just one side of the map, that's at least 3 sides of the map and the middle where you can have access to one gate to escape from in 95% of cases.
Even if a survivor gets hooked far, far away from a gate, the existence of borrowed time as well as the fact many survivors will body block you both towards the hook and will body block for the survivor who just got unhooked is a very real thing and very often happens because if you haven't tunneled at all during the game, that means they're all are going to have DS so if they get downed and rescue the person who just got off the hook, the person who just got rescued can save one other person and again, we go back to square one where they both just crawl away.
Your solution of "just hook them far away from the gate" is incredibly unrealistic against any survivor group who's half decent at the game and isn't lacking a few brain cells. Hoping the survivors are literally bad and stupid isn't a valid counter to the perk, nor does it change the fact that the perk is just poorly designed in the first place where it allows this kind of behavior to be a thing.
Decisive Strike isn't even a balanced perk because it was buffed to stun for 5 seconds due to the fact enduring could be used to counter it as a consideration, and then they took away the counter, yet kept the stun timer at 5 seconds. At the very least, the stun timer should be re-adjusted with the fact that enduring cannot be considered as a counter to it anymore.
Sorry but you are assuming way too much. Survivors do not “control” where they get downed. Sure, sometimes they have the luxury of steering a chase a certain way but many times they don’t. Then you assume other survivors will always be around and willing to body block and that these made to order survivors will naturally have BT. While at red ranks body blocking teammates are more common there are plenty of times that they aren’t nearby or there’s only 1 or they’re already injured etc.
Maybe I’m wrong but it seems like many people confuse count and percentage. Losing a kill because of an unstoppable DS near an exit (not because of bodyblocking teammates or BT) does not happen so frequently that it needs to be fixed. Maybe it’s happened to you 5 times in the past week, which feels like a lot, but out of how many games? And when it DOES happen, bear in mind that the survivor gave up a perk like Prove Thyself or Spine Chill or something else to take that gamble that it would pay off.
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@Nubgutter said:
Cry me a river and ".0001%" Try more like at least 20-30% and so you're just going to pretend that DS is extremely abusable at end game and that it still punishes killers that arent trying to tunnel the survivor with DS since it lasts 1 minute?
There's no point in arguing with someone who doesn't deal in facts and/or understand statistics. There is absolutely no way that an endgame DS that allows an unstoppable escape happens in 20-30% of games. Again, look at killer kill rates. 75% at red ranks where presumably this is such a terrible issue. I don't know how you guys play at all what with unstoppable master SWF squads using their last second DS at gates... Yeah 75% kill rates. This is a non-issue. In the meantime I get hit across a pallet stun every other game, hit 5 feet past a window every other game, and end up the last survivor in an EGC with doors at Killer for Dummies distances apart every 3-4 games. but yes... lets prioritize increasing killer kill rates in this niche situation.
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But this highlights the problem with the DC penalty. For this one we got a buffer since the glitch started days before the penalty system actually kicks in. But what about the next one? What happens on the next game breaking bug that it is ridiculous to expect players to sit and wait through and that won't be fixed for days?
In a situation like this I'd estimate a player who plays 5 hours/day will experience the bug about 2-4 times. If it takes 3 days to fix that's 6-12 DCs. I don't know the penalty escalation logarithm but it sure doesn't seem fair to get that far into a possible permanent ban for just trying not to waste your time sitting in an unplayable game.
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@SammyWasabi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/890311#Comment_890311
Hi, no offense taken first of all, and thank you for the feedback, I also do not play killer, I play survivor most of the time. The main reason I wanted to change the perk or add solutions, is because of the fact there isn't a counter to it when they jump into a locker, or if the exit gate is right next to the hook where they are pulled off. This is to make it less of an oppressive perk, as it can throw off a game's momentum, and another reason I wanted to change it, is because most of the times that I would ever use DS to stab the killer, was when they weren't tunnelling, and I wanted to add counterplay that doesn't require slugging and throwing off your momentum.
That's very nice of you to be concerned about killer welfare. lol. I still see those as niche situations and there are bigger issues to deal with but yeah, free will.... have fun...
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How wonderfully rude. My points are valid. Don't weaken a necessary perk for a situation that may happen in .0001% of games. And trust me, I'm plenty tired of the entitled killer mindset. I'm just not going to be rude about it.
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No offense to the OP who seems like a nice person, but this sure sounds like a killer who feels entitled to always be able to get 4ks.
I sympathize with the fact that you're trying to perfect the world you generally play in as killer but if killers didn't tunnel so much, no one would play it. And as noted it's extremely specific to a single use being hit within a minute after being pulled off hook and then hitting the skill check. There's one situation that a killer can't recover in time to get that second hit - near a door at endgame. The very endgame that is now ridiculously killer-sided because of EGC.
And bear in mind that running a DS perk means they're NOT running something else... maybe something like prove thyself or we'll make it or spine chill or deliverance. So they are hurting other aspects of their game for that one chance that DS pays off and they don't get re-caught.
I'm still amazed that killers have the temerity to complain about survivor advantages when they are living in an era of 3k averages.
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This challenge is utter garbage. I’ve completed every survivor and killer challenge to this point. Sure some take a little time and some a little luck but all are doable. Now with this one the difficulty ramps up like 25x. It’s hard enough to get the conditions for 1 safe endgame save... ie, have 3 or 4 survivors left that haven’t already been 2 hooked... but you have to do 2... and every survivor in the game is going for saves concurrently.... utter garbage.
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Small game - Considering how many games have ruin and how many times my teammates WILL NOT DO GENS until ruin is gone... meaning they all run around looking for it and getting hit and hooked... I am amazed more people don’t run this. It speeds up finding all hex totems that need finding immediately (ruin, devour hope, noed) and also helps with hag, trapper and Freddy.
Aftercare, empathy, bond - always nice to get that info on what your team is doing. Aftercare is fantastic for solos in helping coordinate getting gens done and healing since the aura is seen both ways.
and also a recent spine chill convert... almost a must have with all the gfs nowadays...
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Just knock it off. ; ) I’m trying to do my Tome.
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I'm just gonna say one more thing then leave this alone for awhile...
If any of you have ever watched great players stream then you know how well a Master Killer can do and you know it fits this info. Master Killers get 4ks in red ranks all day long and their biggest challenge is Master SWF groups. However, from my experience watching them they still have a roughly 50% or better win rate, sometimes getting 4ks and sometimes 0ks, but usually at least 1 or 2k. This is regardless of build, play style, how many afks, etc etc. Over time and with large numbers of games you see the afks etc are not relevant. I agree it can muddy results but like a drop of salt in your Sprite... not at all to the extent that it would matter.
On the other hand even the best survivor streamers die in maybe half of their games, though they almost always earn enough points to pip.
I think the devs have a complicated nuanced approach to balancing this game. They may have a stated goal of 2ks being balanced but my intuition is that the ability to pip plays a big role in their balancing equation. The fact that survivors can die but still pip/win means something. It allows killers to have more fun and get more kills while allowing a survivor to claim victory. But obviously this has to be managed carefully. Taken to the extreme they could allow insanely powerful killers but grant points for the slightest survivor action allowing pipping after being 3 hooked in 30 secs. Pipping balance alone doesn't work. Players need a good gameplay experience and a shot at surviving. I get that it's complicated and they try hard to keep everyone happy, but it's difficult. And it's why stats that show what's actually happening are super important.
If nothing else, instead of ignoring these stats, consider my earlier point about if the stats had showed a 98% kill rate, "but don't draw conclusions". It's impossible not to. If killers were in fact killing 98% of the survivors there's a problem. you don't question builds or afks... the numbers are enough.The same is true with these numbers as they are.
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@KingHEADBUSTER said:
If played right no survivor should die. Just bc LOTS of people suck doesn't mean killers are op, I play both and some ppl don't even look at ghost face they just run and die.
you can run a killer in circles for 10mins if your good.
You are highly inaccurate.
- You can play a survivor well and be out of the game in 3 minutes. If you're found immediately in an area with no defenses you get downed. Your teammates make bad saves and/or you get camped tunneled. Not your fault.
- I get your point, but just because lots of people suck doesn't mean killers AREN'T OP either
- If the killer is equally good this is very unlikely.
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@xJOELx209 said:
most of those stats probably come from brown, yellow, green, and purple ranks. If you play trapper against rank 1s chances are you’ll be gen rushed before you even get set up, the point is most killers can’t play in red ranks because their power isn’t good enough. Spirit and nurse are most common in red ranks because they’re very good and can travel the map quickly which is why their win percentages are higher than the rest. This game heavily towards survivors, think about a 4 man SWF team, they have no debuffs being a 4 man, they’re all buffs. A killer is by themselves if they mess up a chase that’s wasted time and they have no one to rely on go fix their mistakes while survivors do.
The stats also were broken down just for red ranks. Even higher kill rates.