SpaceCoconut
SpaceCoconut
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Now that an attack from Feral Frenzy does not affect the Deep Wound timer, the timer doesn't go down within the killer's 32m terror radius or while Mending, and if Mending still takes 15 seconds... What threat does Deep Wounds cause the survivor?
If the killer is chasing them then the Deep Wounds timer is simply a UI status effect with no impact on the survivor.
If the killer leaves 32m away they provide no threat to the survivor who can then mend without being tracked.
While mending they won't be worrying about running out of time and going into the dying state.
At no point is the survivor fearful of falling to Deep Wounds and the only way they could do so was by deliberately letting the timer run out.
This is further proven by the application of Deep Wounds as a BENEFICIAL status effect through Borrowed Time.
Question:
What changes will be applied to Deep Wounds to make it a detrimental effect for survivors rather than a beneficial one?
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@xChrisx said:
Trash tier, every time i can escape easily
Because the hatch opens when the 3 other survivors are sacrificed ;)
@artist said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/421763#Comment_421763
chokepoints, open areas to guarantee a hit, or loops survivors always run to, such as shack. always be spamming your teleport key to give survivors less of a reaction time
These tips are pretty solid.
@cricketscorner thanks for the shoutout :)
A simple tip to manage traps is that you want 4-6 on the ground as often as you can.
If you teleport and you can't instantly hit a survivor, set a trap before you start chasing them.
Set traps constantly :)
Perks are dependent on your playstyle, but avoid perks that help in chases since you shouldn't be chasing a lot.
Honestly, getting better with the Hag is mostly about practice with her traps. Perks will help, but her power is what makes her dangerous :)
Good luck!
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@Carpemortum said:
@SpaceCoconut I dont see the community agreeing that Legion was nerfed too hard. I see the community in an uproar over balancing. It's not a nerf across the board, as much as you may want it to be.
If Legion turns out to ACTUALLY be trash, there won't be a post?
I feel like you missed the point of my thread, only to try to attack me.
I'm flattered.
<3
It wasn't an attack, I didn't bother to read your post.
I was just offering up the inverse of the title.
It literally had nothing to do with you personally, I just felt like posting it.
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When the majority of the community agrees that Legion was nerfed too hard to be among the weakest killers (Wraith, Freddy)
I expect to see a complaint thread about it from you.
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Who wants to bet that the collapse is survivor sided?
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These inevitable "improvements" are going to happen and with the track record the devs have, I'm surprised people still buy chapters with cash.
I was going to support the game by buying the new Hag costume because of the DS changes... then MoM came out.
No cosmetic for me.
Start buying DLC with shards.
Stop buying chapter DLCs for cash/Cells.
The devs don't act on feedback, they "listen" then do whatever they were going to do in the first place.
Unfortunately, in the ToS they specifically say you can't get a refund in the event something in the game changes.
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@KaitoC1 said:
i absolutly hate legion. most annoying killer in the game in my opinion if you ask me.
but i agree too that he got nerved WAY to much. but you guys all think to negative on this, on PTB you can actually test this and see if its that bad. even if it is bad, the forum is there for a reason. feedback is the key.
Remember when people in the PTB said Legion wasn't fun and that he should be tweaked before release?
How many other times was PTB feedback given and ultimately ignored by the devs?
These changes will all go through with slight number changes and the devs will think it's fine.
I am SO glad I didn't spend money let alone put much effort into playing and levelling Legion up.
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Deep Wound is a formality mechanic, it's not as threatening as it was before. I would compare it to the Pig's trap now. It's too easy to remove and the only way it will down a survivor now is if the survivor wants to go down.
Legion is now a Wraith without invisibility and an M1 speed burst after using their power.
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@Carpemortum said:
Ah I see. You got your responses flagged as accepted answers even though through definition and proof of action in response to it BEING EXPLOITED, I proved them false. Nice echo chamber we have here guys.
@Carpemortum Let it go.
It might not even be an issue once the changes are revealed later this week. This is why that particular post answered my question.
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I forgot that they did announce changes to Legion were coming.
This thread is no longer of any use to anyone until we find out what those are.
We can drop it now :)
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Edit: I respect every answer here but the question is:
The "limit" is set by the devs through their design decisions.
Player skill should determine killer viability, not the mechanics of the killer.
Freddy's dream transition is a good example.
No matter how good the killer is, they can't affect the survivor until after the transition ends.
The survivor can capitalize on this transition setting Freddy behind.
Trapper must spend a lot of time retrieving and setting traps that can be disarmed faster than they can be set without risk (w/o addons).
This time can be used by survivors to complete gens quickly since the trapper isn't able to create much pressure early on.
Leatherface lacks mobility which creates a lack of map presence allowing survivors to finish gens quickly.
These are design decisions that influence a killer's viability which can't be circumvented against equally or higher skilled opponents.
This creates the situation where a survivor might run into the same killer several times in a row because they are designed well and "viable" through skill.
This is why they should be equally viable: To create a variety of matches with all killers that are available and to allow players to play their favorite killer instead of only a "top tier" killer if they want to do well.
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@Carpemortum said:
@spacecoconut Considering an exploit is using a mechanic to obtain unintended results to gain an advantage, it by definition is an exploit.
Whether it is bannable or not is another story. And as to the details as to whether it should be bannable, continue reading.
@Kaelum I'm sure those are not the entire quote, and if it is, them saying "cheese" instead of abusing error in design doesn't change the fact that it is exactly what that strategy is. If they don't consider it to be bannable, they should change legions power to tick down during chases, or base it on TR and not the LoS/chase mechanic.
Also if you look at bannable offenses, moonwalking is not bannable. As I said. But what IS bannable is, and I quote the Forum posted In Game rules/bannable list, is:
EXPLOITS: ABUSING BUGS OR ERRORS IN DESIGN TO GAIN A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE
Using the chase/LoS mechanic to BYPASS the timer pause is an exploit. Doesn't matter how you look at it.
So I guess looping was an exploit before the devs ok'd it as a mechanic.
The same will probably happen with moonwalking.
But still, your opinion is noted. I'll keep waiting for an official word.
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@Carpemortum said:
@Kaelum They have said moonwalking itself, is not an exploit. Using it to bypass a timer freeze is absolutely an exploit.
@Carpemortum Did the devs say it's "absolutely" an exploit, or is that still your opinion on the matter?
To my knowledge, there hasn't been an official word either way about this topic.. just a lot of people with opinions.
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It's not impossible to deal with, but your strategy needs to change in order to succeed.
https://youtu.be/KX8QHZvkumo -
I had a similar idea where prestige 3 on a killer gave you access to rank 4 of their own perks that were stronger in some way, but only usable on the original character.
I hope they implement more rewards for different accomplishments sooner rather than later.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/418755#Comment_418755
Well, you're right. Any killer that moonwalks to avoid a chase to make Deep Wounds timer tick down is exploiting. Legion happens to be the only killer that can inflict it so in his case it is the most egregious.
Borrowed TIme says hello.
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@DocOctober said:
Devs already said it isn't. Moonwalking has been part of the game for a long time and is a major mindgame strategy amongst most Killers.
Where did they say it? I'd like to add the link to the OP and call it a day :)
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@PhantomMask20763 said:
@SpaceCoconut Hi coconut! :)
@PhantomMask20763 Hi Phantom :)
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I talked about this perk awhile ago :)
Your suggestions are pretty good too :)
https://youtu.be/_WauKGKPlrE -
@ApeOfMazor said:
If you can only commit a few hours a week then just suck it up and accept you will never have everything. Complaining about not having everything is what has killed many games when they try to adapt to people who barely play.
This is a strawman argument.
The issue is the fun of the grind versus the amount of time it takes to complete it, not gaining everything in a short period of time.
If the grind was fun, the time needed to complete it wouldn't be an issue.
Because the grind is random and not fun, the length of time is an issue.
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@ApeOfMazor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/418063#Comment_418063
His calc is wrong because it assumes no boosts which everyone uses nearly every game. Add in generous double bloodpoint weekends as well and its so easy to get bp in this game.
"This is just gameplay. It doesn't include lobby wait times, dc's, short matches with low bp, long matches with higher bp, or many other issues that can impact match length and your bp earning rate."
Doesn't mean I'm wrong, it just means an exact number isn't possible.
The math works for the numbers I have ;)
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@ApeOfMazor said:
Stop rushing to end game with every single perfect perk and enjoy the ride. If they cut the grind anymore they may as well just hand out everything.
You're right, but that's not the issue that I'm talking about.
The grind as it stands is not exactly a fun grind.
It makes the cost of entry very high for new players who might want to try all the killers but find themselves outmatched and unable to earn a reasonable amount of bloodpoints due to a lack of perks.
The grind doesn't necessarily have to be shorter so things are given out, it needs to be adjusted so it's fun.
Part of that adjustment would probably involve shortening it though...
What if a new killer started with the first rank of all perks unlocked already? Not just their own 3 perks?
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I think it's important to note that this list doesn't take the different killers and their powers into account.
Is Bamboozle top tier on Nurse?
Is BBQ&C top tier on Hag?
Is Insidious low tier on leatherface?
Is Surveillance mid tier on ring & beads Spirit?
But this does give me an idea for another video lol
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With the introduction of The Collapse, endgame will be changing so we can assume that NoED will be changing also.
The devs have already said that the perk is fine in its current state with the counter it currently has.
You can keep discussing it if you like, but NoED won't change until it needs to.
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@VESSEL said:
@SpaceCoconut Can you say otherwise ;)
Actually I let a guy get out the last time I played, 3 man first down dc'd went after #2, dropped pallet when I found and dc'd as I broke it. I found the 3rd and hit him, he didn't dc so I let him fix gens and get hatch as I drew triangles around lery's
Just one of those days...
Other days its just hook everyone and get it over with lol
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I'd take away the red stain and the terror radius I think.
Be always looking for the killer and never know where they're coming from or if they're nearby unless you're using the appropriate perks.
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@MystiKasT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/411677#Comment_411677
@RotBb so I need to play 2000 hours before my input has any meaning?
Ignore RotBb's post.
Your assessment is pretty accurate for the most part and you've pretty much nailed the important issues.
Bloodlust IS trash.
Flashlight's aren't as bad as they used to be, they just require some more situational awareness on your part.
Survivors DO control the pace of the game.
The only issue I have with survivor addons is that they can keep theirs at the end of the match.
Coordinated teams swf or not DO crush killers if they want to win. If they're memeing then they might lose.
Totem placement isn't as random as we'd like, but their spawn points ARE garbage.
Looping IS dumb.
Some maps ARE killer dependent.
The killer experience IS stressful and frustrating.
If anyone says you haven't played long enough to have a valid opinion ignore them.
If YOU'RE not having fun then the issues are real enough to bring up.
The more people who do this the better.
Good post. I hope you can find enjoyment again.
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@Peanits said:
This would assume that four perks means one kill, which wouldn't be true in the first place. It would also generally hurt build diversity since you would have enough space to run just about all of the best perks, which would get stale sooner or later. The current system limits the number of perks you can equip so you can't become a jack of all trades.
@Peanits Isn't build diversity already an issue since the majority of survivors play the 4 "best" perks anyway?
I remember a past dev stream that highlighted the top perks and their usage %. The numbers were flawed, but after some math adjustment 80+ percent of survivors would use Sprint Burst, Decisive Strike, and/or Self Care with the 4th slot being open.
I have no idea what those numbers look like now, but I doubt they've changed much since then.
I say survivors because some perks are better on some killers but not all, so killers have a much greater diversity of perk usage due to the diverse nature of killers through their powers.
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@AshleyWB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/411335#Comment_411335
You think having a bunch of people targeting a streamer with comments like "he's a dweeb, bad killer main, attention seeking, refuses to discuss opinions", and then vote up and awesome insults about his appearance.
Not only does it break the rules for it to refer directly to a streamer it also creates a space for hatred for Tyde to breathe and grow. Like the safe space for Tyde bashing.
Those of you with actual fair criticism lose your validity because of the many who think they can toss any insult they can. It's not funny it's pathetic and shameful.
I understand this thread was fine to begin with but it just drew a crowd of sad little idiots who think they can be hateful to streamers.
And the fact the devs didn't close this after some if the insults makes me wonder whether there is a selective special treatment for certain content creators but totally disregarding the few who you don't have many ties with them. Even though Tyde was closely involved in running the dbd tournament a while ago.
I do hope I'm wrong but who knows.
I won't debate you since it's obvious what you're doing.
Calling people in this threat "sad little idiots" makes you exactly like them.
If you want to use them as an excuse to discredit valid criticisms that's fine, it only makes you look foolish.
But anyway, back to the original topic...
Regardless of who says it, big changes need to happen, but in the meantime we're all kind of stuck with the choice to play through the agony or play something else.
Neither of those choices are good for the game.
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@AshleyWB said:
This thread should have been closed an hour or two after the hateful, toxic and nonsensical comments started flowing in.
@AshleyWB This is what someone says when they can't refute evidence. They try to stop the conversation.
Your bias is evident and I for one aren't really taking you seriously.
People found the faults in a streamers personality and are discussing them since they're important to the conversation of the relevance of the said streamer's content.
While you can be offended all you like, the conversation is civil and requires no intervention.
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The Charge time addons for Spirit are my favorites.
I haven't heard of many people who use them to aggressively attack survivors instead of "just" using her for mindgames.
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Don't listen to Crujoh.
Totems are extremely hard to cleanse and gives the killer TONS of time to find survivors while they're out not doing gens.
It's better to focus on gens and hope the killers aren't running NoED.
Most killers probably aren't since survivors dislike the perk and often hurt the feelings of killers who run it in the end game chat.
tldr: Don't bother cleansing totems because it's too hard.
~ A NoEd user
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@VESSEL said:
I like all of his content EXCEPT for that one bit. After binging Space Coconut I understand how good Hag is.
Doesn't mean I'll ever talk ######### about him. He's a great guy all things considered. He's the only streamer that I know who'll message his viewers asking how they are doing (He's so sweet :) )
Thanks for the shout-out :) Also, your shirt idea is gold and I'm putting that together. I'm not a good artist, but I might be able to fake it :)
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I caught this video right before work and I thought it was a pretty solid breakdown of the technical problems that plague dbd without getting into balance issues (which would be several videos by themselves).
Regardless of the opinions by and of the presenter, the louder we all become about these issues, the faster changes will come and hopefully the quality of those changes will be good as well.
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Hmm... It needs a strong risk when its used in conjunction with similar perks, or deterrent to stack similar to unrelenting and stbfl.
Works as is, minus the aura reading and gives permanent exhaustion or hindered (after the initial speed boost) for the rest of the match.
Could also benefit the team rather than the user.
When hit for a third time another survivor gains a temporary shield that absorbs a hit or..
When another survivor would be downed after their first time, you take the damage for them and your aura is revealed until you're downed and become the obsession. This damage won't put you into the dying state.
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And the killer in those movies always catches up.
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A full match with no dc's.
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@Theluckyboi said:
I mean, its annoying, but not really an exploit.
Just be happy with the 3k, its no big deal if you at least pipped
I'd like an official word on it though.
Didn't pip and felt kind of robbed in the end. It was a bad experience that's more common than you think.
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Whatever the devs decide to do, this is what needs to be done.
Change up the objectives and fix the end game.
Those two things will give the killer more time to play. Even through all the second chances a survivor decides to bring in.
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@WheatThinO said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/402041#Comment_402041
omg lmao the reason I was asking was cause I was watching one of your videos and it just popped into my head as I watched you place traps and stuff lmao I love your content!!!
I'm happy you enjoy what I do :) I'll try to keep it up!
@AntiJelly said:
@SpaceCoconut wow. Very quick to the draw.
I was up late working on the Dark Devotion Perk Study ;)
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@artist said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/402386#Comment_402386
I feel your pain. I play pig, wraith, doc and hag. battle hag, stealth doc, or delete everything wraith is a lot of fun, but I can't always do that because of survivor builds. I also like to play survivor and try plunder, hide mid-chase, and heal builds just to get hit with a billy with his best addons. I shouldn't feel the need to deck out my build with 2nd chance after 2nd chance just in case I get players like those, but I do. what makes it worse is that those top tier killers that dont need those addons to compete still use them, making the game 10x harder (not to mention the already struggles of solo-play)
@artist what's Battle Hag?
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inb4 FIX THE GAME FIRST
Fix the game first.
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Lisa Sherwood grew up in a quiet village, mainly isolated from the rest of civilization. The people of the hamlet were kind and the elders kept old traditions alive, often keeping the peace by personally settling the ever-rare disputes. Lisa was particularly fond of the charms they taught her to draw for safety and good fortune. One night, as she was walking home through the woods, a terrible storm struck without warning. Howling winds whipped at her hair as she stumbled through the swamp, her rain-drenched dress plastered to her skin. In the slick, wet mud she lost her footing, careening backwards and striking her head against rock. Slipping in and out of consciousness, she strained to identify the dark shapes approaching her from between the trees. That's the last thing she could remember.
Her kidnappers kept her chained to the wall in a flooded cellar. Though dimly lit, she could see others whose large open wounds swarmed with flies. It took merely a day before they returned, carving chunks from the prisoners' bodies with rusted blades, consuming their very flesh down to the bone. Most she saw did not survive long once the cannibals targeted them but somehow, deep within, Lisa persisted. Starved, infected, and mutilated after several weeks of torture, her gaunt arms became loose in their shackles. She pulled hard, the metal tearing through skin and muscle until she was free. Her flesh oozed viscous yellow pus and bones were visible beneath gangrenous wounds. She could go no further. Delirious, she thought of home; she thought of the elders. With her dying breath, she etched the symbols they had taught her into the floor using what remained of her fingers. Almost in response, a dark hunger stirred inside her. It yearned for blood. In oath, she chose vengeance.
The village's search party eventually brought them to an old shack in a swamp. Inside, its previous inhabitants had been viciously dismembered and devoured by an unidentifiable animal. In the cellar, amid rotting corpses and disconnected flesh, the elders’ charms were scrawled in blood on the floor. Lisa’s body was not among the bodies and was never found. The village was never the same again.
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@powerbats said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/401681#Comment_401681
Bahahahaha for the last year certain killer mains on here have been telling survivors to adapt each time they had a complaint or there was a change. Brand new player comes to the forums not knowing any better Git GUd and meme and ADAPT.
How do you suggest M1 killers deal with MoM combined with many of the other second chance perks survivors have?
Or is this just a troll post?
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/400217#Comment_400217
Frustrating? Yes, you have a point there but unplayable? No, you did very well against a group of survivors who should have destroyed you.
"Frustrating? Yes, you have a point there"
This is the entire point of the thread.
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Maybe more killers than usual are taking a break from dbd or playing survivor for some reason...
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We've given them suggestions in the past.
Many were ignored.
Others were sold to us in the form of Perks instead of core mechanic changes.
It does not feel as though the devs care about the balance of the game but rather just focusing on the money of selling the solutions.
It's more disheartening than anything else.
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@Detective_Jonathan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/401147#Comment_401147
Most of the time when i play killer i don't see survivors using that same structure because someone used it. I just don't think it would make sense to complain about it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/401142#Comment_401142
Which is why they included something called "Entity blocked"
Do you feel safe running loops? If you do, then the devs need to balance better.
I play Hag to deal with many loops so it's not too big of a deal, but some maps have too many paths to cover efficiently.
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@Plu said:
They fixed DS and now we get this, it's like we can never catch a break or something, i don't even know how that perk got approved, it's like they don't play the same game as us, i'm baffled...
@Plu I'm convinced that it's their balance philosophy that's causing all these problems. It'd be a different story if they changed the balance from a casual focus to a more competitive one.
https://youtu.be/Ugb8jdw6rsI -
@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/400475#Comment_400475
And no, I'm not going to read every post in every thread. He could have linked to his reply if he wanted, or ignored me. You don't have a responsibility to step in for someone else.
Some people sleep. Get over yourself.